Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> I my client, the list of fallback character sets (for writing) is:
>> us-ascii iso-8859-* (16 entries where * is 0 to 16) utf-8 utf-7 gb2312
>
> Over the years, there are two character encodings that I've noticed
> trigger thunderbird to use a noticeably different font, big5 (chinese)
> and koi8 (russian) i haven't seen any of those in this thread.

I've only rarely encountered koi8 encoded messages, but I'm not sure
those were for Usenet posts or e-mails. I can see perhaps the need for
more space with Chinese characters that are pictograms/logograms.

I don't see why ASCII representation would take more space than UTF-8,
especially since UTF-8 is an extension of ASCII (for presentation or
rendering, not for encoding).

VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>
>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Occasionally a message displays in Tbird's message pane with a much
>>>>>> larger font size than others.
>>>>>> I've narrowed it down to 7bit encoding, and the major culprit is Forte
>>>>>> Agent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There appears to be no setting to handle this.
>>>
>>> Can you post a message-id of a posting with this problem (and of one
>>> without it)?
>>>
>>
>> Now, that seems a more rational approach, Frank. I'll gladly follow that.
>>
>> I've looked at all the messages in this thread right down to your
>> latest, to which I'm replying. They're all ok except the three from
>> VanguardLH.
>
> From the headers of their posts in this thread:
>
> VanguardLH (40tude Dialog)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Frank (tin)
> Content-Type header is absent.
> Content-Transfer-Encoding header is absent.
>
> Ed Cryer (Thunderbird)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Andy (Thunderbird)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Paul (Ratcatcher, perhaps bogus UA string)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Carlos (Thunderbird)
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Am I, VanguardLH, the only one that incites the font size problem in
> your setup of Thunderbird? I cannot see how some posters using the same
> "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" header cause a font sizing problem for
> you, but other posters also using that same header that do not cause a
> font sizing problem, could be caused by posters using the same header.
> It's there: a font size problem. It's not there: no font size problem.
>
> What is different, if it is just my posts that cause the font sizing
> problem for you, is the Content-Type header. My client declares it uses
> plain text (ASCII), and nothing fancier (that was added later), like
> UTF-8. The other posters' clients declare using UTF-8. I don't need to
> use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the ASCII-7 character
> set.
>
> I my client, the list of fallback character sets (for writing) is:
>
> us-ascii
> iso-8859-* (16 entries where * is 0 to 16)
> utf-8
> utf-7
> gb2312
>
> They default in the order listed, top down. Default charsets for
> reading are different, but my fallback reading charset list could be
> different than what Thunderbird uses. Every NNTP client should support
> the ASCII charset, especially since the others are extensions of ASCII.
>
> When I write an article as the originator, it will use ASCII. If I
> reply to someone that used non-ASCII characters, and those are in the
> quoted section of my reply, then my client has to fallback to a charset
> that supports those non-ASCII characters. That a client uses, say,
> UTF-8 does not mandate there are non-ASCII characters in the article.
> So, if I reply to someone using UTF-8, and quote part of their article,
> but that part does not employ non-ASCII characters, then my client will
> use ASCII.
>
> Odd Thunderbird cannot handle posts that are solely ASCII. Or doesn't
> have the same font sizing problem with posts from users that don't
> declare those headers, like Frank. UTF-8 extends ASCII. Before adding
> support for any other charsets, ASCII should be the first one supported.
>
> Am I the only poster the only one that causes the font sizing problem
> for you? When you started your thread, you didn't mention specific
> posters, but just claimed the Content-Transfer-Encoding header was the
> culprit despite you add it, and so several other posters you say their
> articles don't cause the problem. My guess it is the charset specified
> in the Content-Type header, but a single instance (just me) is not
> sufficient proof. Who ELSE causes font sizing problems in your Tbird?

I feel very sceptical about this new Thunderbird.
Thunderbird Supernova, they call it. They're on 15.3.2 already after so
short a time.

TB went from 102 to this 115 Supernova, and it has all the hallmarks of
"done for show".

Allow me a short tongue-in-cheek surmise, Vanguard. It might be bad
manners, but it'll express my rationale of what's happened.

New broom comes into boss's chair; has to show speedy leadership
qualities; assesses Tbird as having a dowdy look, gives it a make-over
with rich cosmetics.
Now then, let me reach a pinnacle of flimsily-based conclusions; the new
boss is a woman!

Aaagh! Don't stone me, you ladies! I'm really not such a bad guy.

Ed

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Occasionally a message displays in Tbird's message pane with a much
>>>>>>> larger font size than others.
>>>>>>> I've narrowed it down to 7bit encoding, and the major culprit is Forte
>>>>>>> Agent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There appears to be no setting to handle this.
>>>>
>>>> Can you post a message-id of a posting with this problem (and of one
>>>> without it)?
>>>
>>> Now, that seems a more rational approach, Frank. I'll gladly follow that.
>>>
>>> I've looked at all the messages in this thread right down to your
>>> latest, to which I'm replying. They're all ok except the three from
>>> VanguardLH.
>>>
>>> See you,
>>
>> All look fine to me. But I've set fixed width ('Monospace:') font
>> (because using proportional spacing is silly on a plain text medium).
>>
>> N.B. I'm using a (frozen) stone age version of Thunderbird (60.9.0),
>> so that might/will matter as well.
>>
>> I don't see anything special in the (Message Source of) VanguardLH's
>> postings. He has indeed a 'Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit' header, but
>> so have some others, for example Andy Burns and Paul (but they have
>> different 'Content-Type:' headers (than VanguardLH)).
>>
>> Perhaps your Thunderbird gets confused by VanguardLH's unneeded [1]
>> (see my post) but (AFAICT) correct Content-* headers?
>>
>> [1] "us-ascii" and "7bit" are defaults.
>
> All was ok with TB102. This problem arrived with 115.
>
> My current suspect is "us-ascii".
> I've tried all the 115 display settings, to no avail.
>
> Ed

While I can do a search at bugzilla.mozilla.org on "ascii" and
"thunderbird", I don't see how to limit the search to specific version
ranges.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Client%20Software&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&resolution=---&short_desc=ascii&product=Thunderbird&query_format=advanced&order=Importance

I didn't see one of the 18 search results that mentioned your specific
problem in rendering ASCII (Content-Type: us-ascii) posts. Maybe
someone else more proficient in searching Bugzilla could see if anyone
opened a ticket on FF 115 having a problem with rendering us-ascii
(plain text, nothing extra allowed) posts.

VanguardLH wrote:

> I can see perhaps the need for
> more space with Chinese characters that are pictograms/logograms.

These were entirely ASCII messages, just using big5 coding, the text is
bigger and quite "scratchy", I presume it came from people who did use
chinese script when communicating with some people, but plain ascii with
others?

> I don't see why ASCII representation would take more space than UTF-8,
> especially since UTF-8 is an extension of ASCII (for presentation or
> rendering, not for encoding).

I seemed to use a different Windows font.

Ed Cryer wrote:

> I feel very sceptical about this new Thunderbird.
> Thunderbird Supernova, they call it. They're on 15.3.2 already after so
> short a time.

15.0 was july, 15.1 august, 15.2 september, 15.3 october at which point
it was given out as a general upgrade, the early versions were only for
those of us keen enough to install it manually.

On 2023-10-14 18:56, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>
>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Occasionally a message displays in Tbird's message pane with a much
>>>>>> larger font size than others.
>>>>>> I've narrowed it down to 7bit encoding, and the major culprit is Forte
>>>>>> Agent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There appears to be no setting to handle this.
>>>
>>> Can you post a message-id of a posting with this problem (and of one
>>> without it)?
>>>
>>
>> Now, that seems a more rational approach, Frank. I'll gladly follow that.
>>
>> I've looked at all the messages in this thread right down to your
>> latest, to which I'm replying. They're all ok except the three from
>> VanguardLH.
>
> From the headers of their posts in this thread:
>
> VanguardLH (40tude Dialog)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Frank (tin)
> Content-Type header is absent.
> Content-Transfer-Encoding header is absent.
>
> Ed Cryer (Thunderbird)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Andy (Thunderbird)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Paul (Ratcatcher, perhaps bogus UA string)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Carlos (Thunderbird)
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Am I, VanguardLH, the only one that incites the font size problem in
> your setup of Thunderbird? I cannot see how some posters using the same
> "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" header cause a font sizing problem for
> you, but other posters also using that same header that do not cause a
> font sizing problem, could be caused by posters using the same header.
> It's there: a font size problem. It's not there: no font size problem.

7 bit doesn't matter, it is just a coincidence.

What matters is the charset, and the font used to display it is set in
the receiving side Thunderbird settings. I already posted where.

You don't have to change anything. He has.
>
> What is different, if it is just my posts that cause the font sizing
> problem for you, is the Content-Type header. My client declares it uses
> plain text (ASCII), and nothing fancier (that was added later), like
> UTF-8. The other posters' clients declare using UTF-8. I don't need to
> use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the ASCII-7 character
> set.

You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 10/14/2023 5:14 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> The User-Agent header in your articles is non-standard. You must be
>>> inserting your own UA header that merely has "Mozilla Thunderbird".
>>
>> That is the standard User-Agent header for TB from v115 (and presumably
>> onwards).
>
> Then a poor choice by Mozilla. It does not properly identify the user
> agent. They might've as well as have used "An email & newsreader
> client". The 2nd referenced article notes the v155 of Tbird is using:
>
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/115.x.y;
>
> They list similar UA strings going back to Tbird 102. Can't get farther
> back without buying their UA database which isn't going to happen.
>
> Thanks for the update, though. One source says Tbird's UA is the long
> string, another says the vague short string. I doubt many Tbird users
> bother with, or even know about, the UA header, and don't delve into the
> config editor to change general.useragent.override. Some more might use
> add-ons to change the UA string, but those would be a small percent.
>
> Many posters neglect to give specifics, like the version of whatever OS
> or program/app they are asking about. Not always correct to assume they
> are using the latest version. The UA header helps when that info is
> absent from their posts. Besides the Tbird version, the UA also helps
> identify under what OS they are using Tbird since Tbird is multi
> platform. In fact, some users refuse to give that info when requested
> because they think it is irrelevant, but don't really know. The micky
> poster is like that. So getting it when omitted or refused can help
> focus the responses.
>
> Changing to the short uninformative UA string isn't going to help with
> fingerprinting for a long time. It identifies someone using 115, or
> later, of Tbird versus earlier versions. If fingerprinting was the
> issue, Mozilla should have defaulted to not adding the UA header at all
> to hide Tbird users along with all other users of clients that also
> don't report or were configured not to report a UA header.
>
> Apparently there are 2 UA settings (besides the override already
> mentioned):
>
> old one: mailnews.headers.sendUserAgent
> new one: mailnews.headers.useMinimalUserAgent
>
> For the new one, the default is True, which means, yep, we get the short
> and rather useless UA string for Tbird 115+. The first one was there
> before, and decided whether or not to even included the UA header, or
> not; however, if the override setting was left blank, the effect was the
> same, so unclear why 2 settings are needed to omit the UA header. Since
> the override setting has been there for, well, perhaps forever then why
> wouldn't users concerned with hiding their OS and Tbird version have set
> the override setting to empty, or to some vague string? We get another
> option that overlaps another option. And both require the user to delve
> into the config editor to define. Stupid.
>
> Instead of add the useMinimalUserAgent setting, Mozilla could've just
> change the default value of the UA header by setting the override
> setting to "Mozilla Thunderbird". Just reuse a setting already there.
> Adding more settings that effect the same result just confuses users,
> and makes a mess of configuring the UA string. It also means add-on
> authors have to account for more than just the override setting. More
> work for no real gain.
>
> "Implement configuration to send a minimal User-Agent header, or no
> header at all, in sent emails"
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114475
>

Have you tested "general.useragent.override" ?

Paul

On 10/14/2023 9:41 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote:
>> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>> Go to the alt.comp.software.thunderbird

> That NG isn't on E-September or aioe.
> I did find alt.comp.software.easter-eggs, though.
>
> Don't waste my time with misdirections.
>
> Ed

In the old days, you manually needed to click the Refresh button.

The newer versions tend to pull in a fresh newsgroup list,
even when you don't want that to happen.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/rFDg5sHB/E-S-has-group.gif

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/14/2023 5:14 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> The User-Agent header in your articles is non-standard. You must be
>>>> inserting your own UA header that merely has "Mozilla Thunderbird".
>>>
>>> That is the standard User-Agent header for TB from v115 (and presumably
>>> onwards).
>>
>> Then a poor choice by Mozilla. It does not properly identify the user
>> agent. They might've as well as have used "An email & newsreader
>> client". The 2nd referenced article notes the v155 of Tbird is using:
>>
>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/115.x.y;
>>
>> They list similar UA strings going back to Tbird 102. Can't get farther
>> back without buying their UA database which isn't going to happen.
>>
>> Thanks for the update, though. One source says Tbird's UA is the long
>> string, another says the vague short string. I doubt many Tbird users
>> bother with, or even know about, the UA header, and don't delve into the
>> config editor to change general.useragent.override. Some more might use
>> add-ons to change the UA string, but those would be a small percent.
>>
>> Many posters neglect to give specifics, like the version of whatever OS
>> or program/app they are asking about. Not always correct to assume they
>> are using the latest version. The UA header helps when that info is
>> absent from their posts. Besides the Tbird version, the UA also helps
>> identify under what OS they are using Tbird since Tbird is multi
>> platform. In fact, some users refuse to give that info when requested
>> because they think it is irrelevant, but don't really know. The micky
>> poster is like that. So getting it when omitted or refused can help
>> focus the responses.
>>
>> Changing to the short uninformative UA string isn't going to help with
>> fingerprinting for a long time. It identifies someone using 115, or
>> later, of Tbird versus earlier versions. If fingerprinting was the
>> issue, Mozilla should have defaulted to not adding the UA header at all
>> to hide Tbird users along with all other users of clients that also
>> don't report or were configured not to report a UA header.
>>
>> Apparently there are 2 UA settings (besides the override already
>> mentioned):
>>
>> old one: mailnews.headers.sendUserAgent
>> new one: mailnews.headers.useMinimalUserAgent
>>
>> For the new one, the default is True, which means, yep, we get the short
>> and rather useless UA string for Tbird 115+. The first one was there
>> before, and decided whether or not to even included the UA header, or
>> not; however, if the override setting was left blank, the effect was the
>> same, so unclear why 2 settings are needed to omit the UA header. Since
>> the override setting has been there for, well, perhaps forever then why
>> wouldn't users concerned with hiding their OS and Tbird version have set
>> the override setting to empty, or to some vague string? We get another
>> option that overlaps another option. And both require the user to delve
>> into the config editor to define. Stupid.
>>
>> Instead of add the useMinimalUserAgent setting, Mozilla could've just
>> change the default value of the UA header by setting the override
>> setting to "Mozilla Thunderbird". Just reuse a setting already there.
>> Adding more settings that effect the same result just confuses users,
>> and makes a mess of configuring the UA string. It also means add-on
>> authors have to account for more than just the override setting. More
>> work for no real gain.
>>
>> "Implement configuration to send a minimal User-Agent header, or no
>> header at all, in sent emails"
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114475
>>
>
> Have you tested "general.useragent.override" ?

Buried in my 3rd paragraph. I didn't want to use the fullname of
general.useragent.override everytime I mentioned the setting, so I
shortened it to just override.

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> I feel very sceptical about this new Thunderbird.
> Thunderbird Supernova, they call it. They're on 15.3.2 already after so
> short a time.
>
> TB went from 102 to this 115 Supernova, and it has all the hallmarks of
> "done for show".

They wanted to "modernize" the look of Tbird. For some reason, they
felt they needed to draw noobs to Tbird. There's nothing wrong with the
old look, but noobs were weaned on smartphones instead of desktop PCs.
It'll be several versions before the starch wears out in the new shirt.

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew/
https://blog.thunderbird.net/2023/07/our-fastest-most-beautiful-release-ever-thunderbird-115-supernova-is-here/

To me, the new Supernova UI looks like more Mac users have infilitrated
the Tbird dev group. Yeah, let's make Tbird look like a Mac app. No!
They even felt a new logo was needed. Instead of a detailed feathered
bird with a sharp eye cupping an envelope, they changed to a flat icon
of a dead bird on its back crushed by a envelope.

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/new-thunderbird-logo-1536x880.jpg

Despite their announcement, I have to wonder if the changes they are
making to the UI of Thunderbird on Windows/Linux is in preparation for
remaking the K-9 e-mail client for Android that they acquired. Try to
come up with a common UI for their client across platforms, but dumbing
down the UI to the lowest common denominator, which is the toy computer
(aka smartphone). Maybe they've yet not look that far ahead.

They also complained about all the legacy code they have to support in
Tbird. They want to move away from it. Instead of focusing on
resolving and closing old bug tickets to stablize a classic, they want
to start afresh - with a whole new set of bugs.

https://blog.thunderbird.net/2023/02/the-future-of-thunderbird-why-were-rebuilding-from-the-ground-up/

They're trying to make Tbird more ... fashionable. I suppose migrating
to a new codebase means finally shaking off those old bugs and
eliminating having to allocate resources to address them. It's like
with drivers for hardware: new version fixes old bugs, and creates new
bug, so another version will be needed.

More growing pains to come. Enjoy.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>> ASCII-7 character set.
>
> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …

Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
non-ASCII7 characters.

If I reply to someone that used non-ASCII characters, and those are in
the quoted section of my reply, then my client has to fallback to a
charset that supports those non-ASCII characters.

For my content in a reply, ASCII is all that is needed. For quoted
content of a parent post in my reply, that might include non-ASCII
character, so my client has to fallback to a different charset. The
list of fallback charsets is because quoting may include non-ASCII
characters. Better to fallback to an enlarged charset than to have
placeholders in my reply; however, depending on the capabilities and
configuration of the viewer's client, they may see placeholders where
are the non-ASCII characters.

I trim quoted content to provide context for my reply. Notice how much
of the quoted content I trimmed in this reply. I don't quote everything
of the parent post unless it was very short. Trimming is part of
Usenetiquette. In fact, quoting is a courtesy mostly back to when
peering took longer, or servers were more unreliable. Quoting is not a
requirement. You'll get some users, like Kerman, that'll bitch if you
trim any part of their post when quoting their post. For some posts, I
don't quote anything, so everything in my reply is assured to be ASCII.

On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>
>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>
> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
> non-ASCII7 characters.

Which my post contained, and now your post has:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

;-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>
>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>
>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>
> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
them. I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed. As a
result, my headers changed from:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

to:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
to UTF-8. That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets. If I
had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
the us-ascii charset.

Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.

On 2023-10-15 16:07, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>
>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>
>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>
>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
> them. I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed. As a
> result, my headers changed from:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> to:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

:-)

>
> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
> to UTF-8. That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets. If I
> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
> the us-ascii charset.
>
> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>
>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>
>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>
>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
> them. I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed. As a
> result, my headers changed from:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> to:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
> to UTF-8. That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets. If I
> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
> the us-ascii charset.
>
> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you for
having taken the trouble to adapt.
Ed

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote:
[...]

> > Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
> > with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
> > whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>
> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>
> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you for
> having taken the trouble to adapt.

What about this/my response?

If the theory is correct, this response would show in a large font on
your system.

I.e. I - a previously Good Poster TM - has intentionally 'messed up'
this post by manually [1] adding the 'bad'/unneeded headers:

H> Mime-Version: 1.0
H> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
H> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

['H>' added in case Thunderbird does even more strange things.]

[1] Hoping this doesn't confuse *my* newsreader!

On 2023-10-15 20:14, Ed Cryer wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>
>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>
>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>
>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
>> them.  I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed.  As a
>> result, my headers changed from:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>> to:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
>> to UTF-8.  That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets.  If I
>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
>> the us-ascii charset.
>>
>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8.  Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>
> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>
> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you for
> having taken the trouble to adapt.

You misunderstood completely.

YOU have to adapt. The problem for you is not solved, and only you can
solve it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>> VanguardLH wrote:
> [...]
>
>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>>
>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>
>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you for
>> having taken the trouble to adapt.
>
> What about this/my response?
>
> If the theory is correct, this response would show in a large font on
> your system.
>
> I.e. I - a previously Good Poster TM - has intentionally 'messed up'
> this post by manually [1] adding the 'bad'/unneeded headers:
>
> H> Mime-Version: 1.0
> H> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> H> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> ['H>' added in case Thunderbird does even more strange things.]
>
> [1] Hoping this doesn't confuse *my* newsreader!

This is large size.

Ed

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-15 20:14, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>>
>>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>>
>>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>
>>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
>>> them.  I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed.  As a
>>> result, my headers changed from:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>
>>> to:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>
>>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
>>> to UTF-8.  That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets.  If I
>>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
>>> the us-ascii charset.
>>>
>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8.  Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>>
>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>
>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you
>> for having taken the trouble to adapt.
>
> You misunderstood completely.
>
> YOU have to adapt. The problem for you is not solved, and only you can
> solve it.
>
Me and millions of other Tbird users!
Are you seriously suggesting that we all change our settings individually?
Ed

On 2023-10-15 21:31, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-15 20:14, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters
>>>>>>>> outside the
>>>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>>>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
>>>> them.  I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>>>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed.  As a
>>>> result, my headers changed from:
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>
>>>> to:
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>
>>>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by
>>>> switching
>>>> to UTF-8.  That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets.  If I
>>>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
>>>> the us-ascii charset.
>>>>
>>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8.  Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>>>
>>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>>
>>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you
>>> for having taken the trouble to adapt.
>>
>> You misunderstood completely.
>>
>> YOU have to adapt. The problem for you is not solved, and only you can
>> solve it.
>>
>
> Me and millions of other Tbird users!
> Are you seriously suggesting that we all change our settings individually?

Yes.

You can, of course, go to the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup
and ask there. Maybe there is a bugzilla on it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-15 21:31, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-10-15 20:14, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters
>>>>>>>>> outside the
>>>>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>>>>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would
>>>>> handle
>>>>> them.  I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>>>>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed.  As a
>>>>> result, my headers changed from:
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>>
>>>>> to:
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>
>>>>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by
>>>>> switching
>>>>> to UTF-8.  That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets.  If I
>>>>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just
>>>>> used
>>>>> the us-ascii charset.
>>>>>
>>>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8.  Other posters' clients use
>>>>> UTF-8
>>>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their
>>>>> posts.
>>>>
>>>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>>>
>>>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you
>>>> for having taken the trouble to adapt.
>>>
>>> You misunderstood completely.
>>>
>>> YOU have to adapt. The problem for you is not solved, and only you
>>> can solve it.
>>>
>>
>> Me and millions of other Tbird users!
>> Are you seriously suggesting that we all change our settings
>> individually?
>
> Yes.
>
> You can, of course, go to the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup
> and ask there. Maybe there is a bugzilla on it.
>
I have my own personal "bugzilla", pal.
In Tbird 102 all messages display ok in the message pane. And that
includes all those from Vanguard. I can't find a one that doesn't
display ok.
And then in Tbird 115 the problem suddenly arises; no change made by me.
Now then, engage brain! If it's happened here, where else will it have
happened amongst the 20+ million Tbird users?
And thank me for promoting their cause, when people like you militate
against it.
Ed

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters outside the
>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>
>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>
>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>
>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
>> them. I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed. As a
>> result, my headers changed from:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>> to:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
>> to UTF-8. That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets. If I
>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
>> the us-ascii charset.
>>
>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>
> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>
> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you for
> having taken the trouble to adapt.
>
> Ed

My filters kill (marked ignored, use Hide Ignored by default) any post
that uses base 64 encoding, and now you're using that. Why? Base 64
encoding is used for attachments (whether inline or attached). This is
a text-only newsgroup. Use base 64 in binary newsgroups, like images or
videos, but generally don't use base 64 in Usenet. Other than in binary
newsgroups, base 64 posts are used by spammers to avoid filtering at the
servers. ES is updating their filters to eradicate base 64 posts. Not
all Usenet providers kill binary posts in text newsgroups. I do.

Your configuration on Tbird is okay with UTF-8 posts. Mine was UTF-8
only because I deliberately replied to Carlos post which had a non-ASCII
character, so my client had to fallback to an encoding that would cover
those non-ASCII characters. When I start a thread, or reply to a post
(and include the parent post's content), I will continue to use ASCII.
The problem is with Tbird not using the correct font to show ASCII
posts. All NNTP clients must support ASCII. UTF-8 is an extension to
ASCII.

So, you still have a problem with your instance of Thunderbird showing
the wrong font size for ASCII posts. As I recall, someone said to
review the font settings in Tbird. Perhaps the one you picked for text
is larger than others.

I will not change to using UTF-8 as my default encoding. *I* (not all
others) only use ASCII characters. If I quote a parent post which has
non-ASCII characters, my client only switches to UTF-8 if I don't trim
the quoted content to get rid of the non-ASCII characters. This time, I
deliberately left Carlos' non-ASCII characters to test my client.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> Path: uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
> Subject: Re: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:49:28 +0200
> Lines: 72
> Message-ID: <kp2u29Fak91U2@mid.individual.net>
> References: <ugc351$3bf96$1@dont-email.me> <1v39fwf0l1gvo$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
> <uge5r9$3sffi$2@dont-email.me> <ugeell.nio.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
> <uge8p9$3t5ag$1@dont-email.me> <1kbpixi9mo2kd.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
> <kp0bs2Fs3oqU1@mid.individual.net> <fgrot5zao7yu.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
> <kp0nfcFs3oqU4@mid.individual.net> <6zg0w4v5wgo6.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
> <ugha7h$kr8l$1@dont-email.me> <kp2rtoFak92U1@mid.individual.net>
> <ughepb$m138$3@dont-email.me>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> X-Trace: individual.net lxn7H1CnXrFtOQ/xUqrNgwtRicyyVJtNLEHo5xwPyR54gAoaib
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:Wh5Iy50wV15nnTUySsTvbFUN1oc= sha256:eWSXMhYwkPvV1zJqPRIySrnLl73xBdB5kCTzzAz4CY8=
> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
> Content-Language: en-CA
> In-Reply-To: <ughepb$m138$3@dont-email.me>
> Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.comp.os.windows-10:177231
>
> On 2023-10-15 21:31, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-10-15 20:14, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters
>>>>>>>>> outside the
>>>>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>>>>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would handle
>>>>> them.  I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>>>>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed.  As a
>>>>> result, my headers changed from:
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>>
>>>>> to:
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>
>>>>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by
>>>>> switching
>>>>> to UTF-8.  That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets.  If I
>>>>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
>>>>> the us-ascii charset.
>>>>>
>>>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8.  Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>>>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>>>>
>>>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>>>
>>>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you
>>>> for having taken the trouble to adapt.
>>>
>>> You misunderstood completely.
>>>
>>> YOU have to adapt. The problem for you is not solved, and only you can
>>> solve it.
>>>
>>
>> Me and millions of other Tbird users!
>> Are you seriously suggesting that we all change our settings individually?
>
> Yes.
>
> You can, of course, go to the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup
> and ask there. Maybe there is a bugzilla on it.

He is also using base 64 encoding which is an encoding to cover binary
content. This is a text-only newsgoup. No attachments. No binaries.
Ed should *not* be using base 64 except in binary newsgroups to convey
attachments for photos, videos, executables (bad bad bad), or other
binary content. NOT HERE!

I filter out base 64 posts. I wouldn't have seen his except I am
currently only coloring the violations, but will soon be flagging them
as ignored (and my default view is to hide ignored messages, and their
subthreads).

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-15 21:31, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-10-15 20:14, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't need to use UTF-8, because I never use characters
>>>>>>>>>> outside the
>>>>>>>>>> ASCII-7 character set.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You do, when you reply to other posts that use them. “”«»— …
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which I mentioned, but only if the quoted content includes those
>>>>>>>> non-ASCII7 characters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which my post contained, and now your post has:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you were trying to be tricky, but I noticed the non-ASCII
>>>>>> characters in your post, and wanted to check how my client would
>>>>>> handle
>>>>>> them.  I deliberately included your non-ASCII characters in the quoted
>>>>>> portion of my reply to test which encoding method got employed.  As a
>>>>>> result, my headers changed from:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by
>>>>>> switching
>>>>>> to UTF-8.  That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets.  If I
>>>>>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> the us-ascii charset.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>>>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8.  Other posters' clients use
>>>>>> UTF-8
>>>>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their
>>>>>> posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you
>>>>> for having taken the trouble to adapt.
>>>>
>>>> You misunderstood completely.
>>>>
>>>> YOU have to adapt. The problem for you is not solved, and only you
>>>> can solve it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Me and millions of other Tbird users!
>>> Are you seriously suggesting that we all change our settings
>>> individually?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> You can, of course, go to the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup
>> and ask there. Maybe there is a bugzilla on it.
>>
>
> I have my own personal "bugzilla", pal.
> In Tbird 102 all messages display ok in the message pane. And that
> includes all those from Vanguard. I can't find a one that doesn't
> display ok.
>
> And then in Tbird 115 the problem suddenly arises; no change made by me.
> Now then, engage brain! If it's happened here, where else will it have
> happened amongst the 20+ million Tbird users?
>
> And thank me for promoting their cause, when people like you militate
> against it.
>
> Ed

You actually opened a bugzilla ticket? Or just whining here? We here
cannot do anything to fix Tbird's code.

The problem remains with your configuration of Tbird, or it could be a
bug in bugzilla. If you have bad food or bad service at a restaurant,
not telling the manager means you're whining instead of informing. Open
a bugzilla ticket if you really want the problem fixed.

I looked in bugzilla, but found nothing specific to this issue based on
the search criteria I entered. Maybe someone in the Tbird newsgroup
could guide you on how to open a bugzilla ticket.

Or could wait until Tbird 116 to see if the rendering bug is resolved.

And you are still using base 64 encoding in a text-only newsgroup.

On 2023-10-16 01:36, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-10-15 00:10, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:

>>> My client adapted to the need of supporting more than ASCII by switching
>>> to UTF-8. That's why my client has a list of fallback charsets. If I
>>> had trimmed out your non-ASCII characters, my client would've just used
>>> the us-ascii charset.
>>>
>>> Be interesting to know if the font sizing problem still exists for Ed
>>> with my reply to you that uses UTF-8. Other posters' clients use UTF-8
>>> whether or not it is needed to encompass the characters in their posts.
>>
>> Well done, man. Your posts now appear normal size.
>>
>> I feel more inclined to blame Mozilla for all this; and to thank you for
>> having taken the trouble to adapt.
>>
>> Ed
>
> My filters kill (marked ignored, use Hide Ignored by default) any post
> that uses base 64 encoding, and now you're using that. Why? Base 64
> encoding is used for attachments (whether inline or attached). This is
> a text-only newsgroup. Use base 64 in binary newsgroups, like images or
> videos, but generally don't use base 64 in Usenet. Other than in binary
> newsgroups, base 64 posts are used by spammers to avoid filtering at the
> servers. ES is updating their filters to eradicate base 64 posts. Not
> all Usenet providers kill binary posts in text newsgroups. I do.

I have no idea when Thunderbird switches to base64 or how to control it.

>
> Your configuration on Tbird is okay with UTF-8 posts. Mine was UTF-8
> only because I deliberately replied to Carlos post which had a non-ASCII
> character, so my client had to fallback to an encoding that would cover
> those non-ASCII characters. When I start a thread, or reply to a post
> (and include the parent post's content), I will continue to use ASCII.
> The problem is with Tbird not using the correct font to show ASCII
> posts. All NNTP clients must support ASCII. UTF-8 is an extension to
> ASCII.
>
> So, you still have a problem with your instance of Thunderbird showing
> the wrong font size for ASCII posts. As I recall, someone said to
> review the font settings in Tbird. Perhaps the one you picked for text
> is larger than others.
>
> I will not change to using UTF-8 as my default encoding. *I* (not all
> others) only use ASCII characters. If I quote a parent post which has
> non-ASCII characters, my client only switches to UTF-8 if I don't trim
> the quoted content to get rid of the non-ASCII characters. This time, I
> deliberately left Carlos' non-ASCII characters to test my client.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.