On 2023-10-17 06:51, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-10-16 20:02, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> I don't have any issue in that direction with Thunderbird. I participate
>>>> on several mail lists which are plain text only, so monospace is a must.
>>>> I think there is a setting that tells Thunderbird to use monospace for
>>>> plain text.
>>>
>>> Yes, there is.
>>>
>>> In my 'stone-age' (60.9.0) Thunderbird:
>>>
>>> Tools -> Options -> 'Display' tab -> 'Formatting' sub-tab -> Fonts &
>>> Colors -> Advanced... -> (this gives the 'Fonts & Encodings' popup) ->
>>> Font control -> tick 'Use fixed width font for plain text messages'
>>>
>>>> Otherwise, I can post using html, and then set a paragraph to
>>>> "preformat" which seems to actually mean "code", and it goes to
>>>> monospace and no wrap.
>>
>> The problem I'm having now is that the font while composing the reply is
>> too small, and I don't see the setting for it. I can do ctrl+, but it is
>> tiring.
>
> Hmm, just a guess, but maybe Tbird remembers the prior selected font
> size when composing a message. Start writing a new message, to to
> Options -> Format, select font.

No, in plain text mode there is no format option.

....

In html format you can choose size (normal, medium, etc) and it applies
to the cursor point and next typing. You can also select font type, and
then perhaps exact size for "normal". I don't want to touch that for now
because it doesn't say what is the current setting.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Looks like Tbird is changing line height between fix and proportional fonts.
>
> Only because it allows setting a different point size for monospace and
> proportional.
>
> If I set the same font and size for serif/san-serif/monospace, and do
> that for latin and for "other writing systems" then everyone's messages
> here look the same.
>
> Since nobody is using html, I could probably just set the monospace font
> and size for latin and for "other", then tick the "use monosace for
> plain text" option.

Isn't it GoodGuy (I filter him out) that deliberately insults
Usenetiquette by posting HTML here (or whichever newsgroups he
pollutes)? He lies in his posts that if you can't read his message that
your client is broken. Nope, it is his attitude that is broken. He
thinks e-mail and newsgroups are the same communications venue just
because he uses a combo client.

I filter out "Content-Type: text/html". I don't visit newsgroups where
HTML is permitted. I visit only text-only newsgroups.

VanguardLH wrote:

> Isn't it GoodGuy [...] that deliberately insults
> Usenetiquette by posting HTML

Yes it's him, but I don't see him, he occasionally nymshifts.

Ed Cryer wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> On 10/13/2023 2:43 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> Occasionally a message displays in Tbird's message pane with a much
>>> larger font size than others.
>>> I've narrowed it down to 7bit encoding, and the major culprit is
>>> Forte Agent.
>>>
>>> There appears to be no setting to handle this.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>> I wrote a rant and erased it.
>>
>> For TBird 115, its frantic user-edits of userchrome.css and prefs.js
>> are worthy of a rant.
>>
>> Why are they releasing software, and having the user community
>> chase it around with broom and dustpan, and userchrome.css edits ?
>>
>>     Paul
>>
>>
>
> Go on; have a good rant. They're sometimes very beneficial.
> Psychologists tell us that the phaenomena which we experience as
> frustration are underpinned by physical networks in the brain; dendrites
> and neurons. And these need release before they spread further and block
> the essential you, that path of hope and optimism.
> There's a simple text for a good old rant here; something like this.
> 1. I had a very finely working Tbird. It did all I wanted with personal
> email and NG surfing.
> 2. All of a sudden an update arrived and screwed lots of things up.
> 3. I contacted my favourite NG, expecting that there'd be lots of fellow
> sufferers, and that we'd work together on the problem.
> 4. I got replies from people who didn't use Tbird or who used antique
> versions; hardly any from people who'd updated.
> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
> create a new profile. And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
> newsreader. As if I had nothing better to do.
> 6. The situation is analogous to having a builder repair the porch. And
> when you complain that you didn't want pink paint or the letter-box
> seated diagonally or the doormat nailed to a hook on the wall, he tells
> you to shop around.
>
> Well, there you have it, an outline for a good rant. You can add a few
> f...ings and blindings as the mood takes you.
>
> Ed
>
Perhaps a better analogy would be Mr Spock (half Vulcan, half Earth) who
has Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas and Ludwig Wittgenstein in one ear, a
checkout queue at Asda in the other.
What is rational, captain Kirk?
1. Go to https://thunderbird.en.uptodown.com/windows/download/81669746
2. Install Tbird 102
3. Ignore all calls to update
4. Give it a year or so.
Ed

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-10-16 20:02, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> I don't have any issue in that direction with Thunderbird. I participate
> >> on several mail lists which are plain text only, so monospace is a must.
> >> I think there is a setting that tells Thunderbird to use monospace for
> >> plain text.
> >
> > Yes, there is.
> >
> > In my 'stone-age' (60.9.0) Thunderbird:
> >
> > Tools -> Options -> 'Display' tab -> 'Formatting' sub-tab -> Fonts &
> > Colors -> Advanced... -> (this gives the 'Fonts & Encodings' popup) ->
> > Font control -> tick 'Use fixed width font for plain text messages'
> >
> >> Otherwise, I can post using html, and then set a paragraph to
> >> "preformat" which seems to actually mean "code", and it goes to
> >> monospace and no wrap.
>
> The problem I'm having now is that the font while composing the reply is
> too small, and I don't see the setting for it. I can do ctrl+, but it is
> tiring.

I don't use Thunderbird for news, only for e-mail and - as I said -
use an old version.

Having said that, I see that the font (and size) for composing is the
same as defined in the above mentioned 'Advanced...' setting of the
'Display' tab, at least for the fixed width / monospace case.

For example when I change 'Monospace: Consolas Size: 14' to 'Size:
28', my *compose* font also changes to this gigantic size.

I think this makes sense, because why would one want a different font
- both the font type and the font size - for composition than for
display? After all, when you're composing, you're displaying at the same
time. So that's probably why the font+size is set on the 'Display' tab
and not repeated on the 'Composition' tab.

Anyway, we're talking about *Thunderbird*, so who says anything should
be logical, easy, consistent, etc.!? :-) c.q. :-(

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
[...]

> There's a simple text for a good old rant here; something like this.
> 1. I had a very finely working Tbird. It did all I wanted with personal
> email and NG surfing.
> 2. All of a sudden an update arrived and screwed lots of things up.
> 3. I contacted my favourite NG, expecting that there'd be lots of fellow
> sufferers, and that we'd work together on the problem.
> 4. I got replies from people who didn't use Tbird or who used antique
> versions; hardly any from people who'd updated.

You got several of the latter, but you ignored them.

> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
> create a new profile.

I don't remember seeing anything about an add-on, but yes, you were
advised to do the latter, because you were unwilling to do the first.

The concept is called 'troubleshooting'. Get used to it, or hire
somebody to do it for you.

> And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
> newsreader. As if I had nothing better to do.

More whining and whingeing, poor Ed.

> 6. The situation is analogous to having a builder repair the porch. And
> when you complain that you didn't want pink paint or the letter-box
> seated diagonally or the doormat nailed to a hook on the wall, he tells
> you to shop around.

Sorry, but we don't remember giving you a quote, nor you signing an
order. Can you please repost it? Never mind in which font.

> Well, there you have it, an outline for a good rant. You can add a few
> f...ings and blindings as the mood takes you.

It was a rant alright, don't know about the "good" part.

Perhaps a little bit less whining, whingeing and ranting and a bit
more effort and action on your part?

And, in the unlikely case you actually want to put some effort in
solving this, have a look at the other responses not (directly)
addressed to you. I think your answer might well lie in those.

On 2023-10-17 18:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-10-16 20:02, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> I don't have any issue in that direction with Thunderbird. I participate
>>>> on several mail lists which are plain text only, so monospace is a must.
>>>> I think there is a setting that tells Thunderbird to use monospace for
>>>> plain text.
>>>
>>> Yes, there is.
>>>
>>> In my 'stone-age' (60.9.0) Thunderbird:
>>>
>>> Tools -> Options -> 'Display' tab -> 'Formatting' sub-tab -> Fonts &
>>> Colors -> Advanced... -> (this gives the 'Fonts & Encodings' popup) ->
>>> Font control -> tick 'Use fixed width font for plain text messages'
>>>
>>>> Otherwise, I can post using html, and then set a paragraph to
>>>> "preformat" which seems to actually mean "code", and it goes to
>>>> monospace and no wrap.
>>
>> The problem I'm having now is that the font while composing the reply is
>> too small, and I don't see the setting for it. I can do ctrl+, but it is
>> tiring.
>
> I don't use Thunderbird for news, only for e-mail and - as I said -
> use an old version.
>
> Having said that, I see that the font (and size) for composing is the
> same as defined in the above mentioned 'Advanced...' setting of the
> 'Display' tab, at least for the fixed width / monospace case.

I found the problem: I had used (maybe days ago) "[Ctrl][+]" in the
display window, so "[Ctrl][0]" corrected it. Now letters have the same
size as in the compose window.

The display window remembers the zoom level, but the compose window is
new each time and thus at default zoom or 0.

So now all is working nicely, except that I have to use a default size
of 16 (18 for mono), which is huge. For some reason TH is thinking I
have 14 years and can read comfortably such tiny sizes as they use for
fonts (quite smaller than the same fonts in other programs, it seems to me).

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> There's a simple text for a good old rant here; something like this.
>> 1. I had a very finely working Tbird. It did all I wanted with personal
>> email and NG surfing.
>> 2. All of a sudden an update arrived and screwed lots of things up.
>> 3. I contacted my favourite NG, expecting that there'd be lots of fellow
>> sufferers, and that we'd work together on the problem.
>> 4. I got replies from people who didn't use Tbird or who used antique
>> versions; hardly any from people who'd updated.
>
> You got several of the latter, but you ignored them.
>
>> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
>> create a new profile.
>
> I don't remember seeing anything about an add-on, but yes, you were
> advised to do the latter, because you were unwilling to do the first.
>
> The concept is called 'troubleshooting'. Get used to it, or hire
> somebody to do it for you.
>
>> And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
>> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
>> newsreader. As if I had nothing better to do.
>
> More whining and whingeing, poor Ed.
>
>> 6. The situation is analogous to having a builder repair the porch. And
>> when you complain that you didn't want pink paint or the letter-box
>> seated diagonally or the doormat nailed to a hook on the wall, he tells
>> you to shop around.
>
> Sorry, but we don't remember giving you a quote, nor you signing an
> order. Can you please repost it? Never mind in which font.
>
>> Well, there you have it, an outline for a good rant. You can add a few
>> f...ings and blindings as the mood takes you.
>
> It was a rant alright, don't know about the "good" part.
>
> Perhaps a little bit less whining, whingeing and ranting and a bit
> more effort and action on your part?
>
> And, in the unlikely case you actually want to put some effort in
> solving this, have a look at the other responses not (directly)
> addressed to you. I think your answer might well lie in those.

Here's your chance to shine, Frank.
Tell us, as simply as you can, why 115 is better than 102.

Ed

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>...
> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
> create a new profile. And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
> newsreader.

If Thunderbird is not to your liking, there are plenty of other NNTP
clients from which to chose. I don't Tbird anymore. If reporting the
bug is outside your tolerance, try a different newsreader.

Forte Agent
Xnews
Seamonkey
Opera Mail
Xananews
40tude Dialog (my choice)
Claws Mail
OE Classic (rewrite of Outlook Express)
Pan
slrn (text-based)
XPN (requires Python to be cross-platform)
Microplanet Gravity
others may provide more recommendations

That's what I did when I got fed up with Tbird. Try something else. I
don't visit binary newsgroups, so no need to reconstruct binaries sliced
apart into multiple posts; else, I'd look at Newsbin Pro, SABnzdb or
NZBGet, Newsbin, GrabIt, and probably more choices that I don't remember
now. I only needed a newsreader for text-only newsgroups.

My current choice, Dialog, kept getting discarded over several trials of
newsreaders. Only when I decided to spend more than superficial
analysis, and delved into defining event, message, and custom scripts,
and being able to test on all headers instead of just overview headers,
and support of regex did Dialog jump ahead of the other candidates.

If you're disgusted with all the local NNTP client choices, there's
EasyNews (and, ugh, Google Groups which gets you filtered out by many
Usenetizens; see http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/) for
web-based access to Usenet.

In the past, I've already ran into forums leeching from Usenet by using
HTTP-to-NNTP gateways. I don't use non-hierachical/flat (no threading,
all posts at same level) web-based Usenet leech sites, so I have none to
mention.

> As if I had nothing better to do.

Knowing if a program or app is right for you requires time to test each
candidate. Why did you settle on Thunderbird? For me, Thunderbird was
a candidate out of half a dozen candidates. The list got whittled down
when I found something critical was missing.

If you are unwilling to test candidates for your NNTP client, and
exercise them well enough to become familiar with them, then you get
whatever failings are in whatever was your choice. A lot of users used
Outlook Express simply because it was there in Windows (as of IE3), not
because they tried anything else or even know what the hell is Usenet.

Ed Cryer wrote:

> Tell us, as simply as you can, why 115 is better than 102.

v115 will receive bug and security fixes going forwards, v103 will
receive neither.

On 10/17/2023 1:34 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>
>> ...
>> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
>> create a new profile. And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
>> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
>> newsreader.
>
> If Thunderbird is not to your liking, there are plenty of other NNTP
> clients from which to chose. I don't Tbird anymore. If reporting the
> bug is outside your tolerance, try a different newsreader.
>
> Forte Agent
> Xnews
> Seamonkey
> Opera Mail
> Xananews
> 40tude Dialog (my choice)
> Claws Mail
> OE Classic (rewrite of Outlook Express)
> Pan
> slrn (text-based)
> XPN (requires Python to be cross-platform)
> Microplanet Gravity
>
> others may provide more recommendations
>

I found out about BriskBard a few weeks ago.
Like SeaMonkey, a Web browser that offers Email client and Usenet
newsreader among other features.
I haven't tried it out myself because of a lack of any information about
keyboard shortcuts.
When I contacted the author about it, he seemed willing to do something
about it.
https://www.briskbard.com/index.php?lang=en

AllanH <nospam@unokix.invalid> wrote:

> I found out about BriskBard a few weeks ago.
> Like SeaMonkey, a Web browser that offers Email client and Usenet
> newsreader among other features.
> I haven't tried it out myself because of a lack of any information about
> keyboard shortcuts.
> When I contacted the author about it, he seemed willing to do something
> about it.
> https://www.briskbard.com/index.php?lang=en

I prefer to keep separate my e-mail and newsreader clients. Too often
I've seen users post intimated to Usenet instead of e-mail they
intended. Ooops. Often all it takes is clicking on the wrong toolbar
button for the difference between send to e-mail and send to Usenet.

While my newsreader does support e-mail, I have nothing within it
configured to do e-mail. No e-mail servers defined. Yep, I have
clicked the wrong toolbar button (R for reply by e-mail instead of F for
follow up to newsgroup), but my client will fail on the send, because it
has no info on an SMTP server.

Typically the problem with the all-in-one choices is they are not
best-of-breed for any one of them. You get bloat for features you don't
want (for me, chat, RSS, FTP, media player). Does the Briskbar 10-in-1
choice give me:

- Regex on any header for filtering emails or Usenet messages.
- Get all headers, not just overview headers.
- A list of fallback encodings when replying.
- Set fonts for client elements (chrome) separate of fonts for
displaying newsgroups, headers, messages, and compose.
- Define macros on events, like when getting new messages, to
pre-process them.
- Define custom macros I can assign to toolbar buttons.
- Let me configure or reorganize the buttons in the toolbars.
- FTP as robust as FTPzilla.
- A media player similar to, or better, than VideoLan's VLC player.
- Define rules on e-mails as robust a for Outlook and eM Client.
- Some folks want a newsreader than can recompose binaries split across
multiple newsgroups. I don't do binaries, but newsreader folk do.
- I use Firefox's sync across multiple platforms.
- Support add-ons (both web browser, e-mail, and newgroups components).
- Ad/content blocking as robust as with uBlock Origin (in expert mode).

They do have a forum (https://www.briskbard.com/forum/) to ask for help.
That it has 3 web rendering engines (Blink, Trident, and its own)
reminds me of Maxthon.

Looks an interesting candidate to include in a future trial of clients.
There is a portable version without relying on API redirection (e.g.,
PortableApps Platform), but no idea if it doesn't pollute the Windows
registry, or the local file system. Tabs are disabled when using the
Trident engine in the portable version (something about "technical
reasons"). Hopefully it no dependencies on the .NET Framework; however,
Briskbard requires Windows 10, 11, or later, so no Linux distro (and
complaints have been noted trying to run it under WINE). For
Windows-only users, it's a candidate. For multi-platform, Linux, or
mobile users, no.

Most reviews have been positive, but remember these are reviewers
scanning a product and lightly using it, not advanced users. The
reviews are overall favorable, but some will comment negatively, like:

https://techsupportwhale.com/briskbard-browser-review/
"We tried the browser for one month and the outcome and user
satisfaction was not so good."

VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>
>> ...
>> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
>> create a new profile. And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
>> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
>> newsreader.
>
> If Thunderbird is not to your liking, there are plenty of other NNTP
> clients from which to chose. I don't Tbird anymore. If reporting the
> bug is outside your tolerance, try a different newsreader.
>
> Forte Agent
> Xnews
> Seamonkey
> Opera Mail
> Xananews
> 40tude Dialog (my choice)
> Claws Mail
> OE Classic (rewrite of Outlook Express)
> Pan
> slrn (text-based)
> XPN (requires Python to be cross-platform)
> Microplanet Gravity
> others may provide more recommendations
>
> That's what I did when I got fed up with Tbird. Try something else. I
> don't visit binary newsgroups, so no need to reconstruct binaries sliced
> apart into multiple posts; else, I'd look at Newsbin Pro, SABnzdb or
> NZBGet, Newsbin, GrabIt, and probably more choices that I don't remember
> now. I only needed a newsreader for text-only newsgroups.
>
> My current choice, Dialog, kept getting discarded over several trials of
> newsreaders. Only when I decided to spend more than superficial
> analysis, and delved into defining event, message, and custom scripts,
> and being able to test on all headers instead of just overview headers,
> and support of regex did Dialog jump ahead of the other candidates.
>
> If you're disgusted with all the local NNTP client choices, there's
> EasyNews (and, ugh, Google Groups which gets you filtered out by many
> Usenetizens; see http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/) for
> web-based access to Usenet.
>
> In the past, I've already ran into forums leeching from Usenet by using
> HTTP-to-NNTP gateways. I don't use non-hierachical/flat (no threading,
> all posts at same level) web-based Usenet leech sites, so I have none to
> mention.
>
>> As if I had nothing better to do.
>
> Knowing if a program or app is right for you requires time to test each
> candidate. Why did you settle on Thunderbird? For me, Thunderbird was
> a candidate out of half a dozen candidates. The list got whittled down
> when I found something critical was missing.
>
> If you are unwilling to test candidates for your NNTP client, and
> exercise them well enough to become familiar with them, then you get
> whatever failings are in whatever was your choice. A lot of users used
> Outlook Express simply because it was there in Windows (as of IE3), not
> because they tried anything else or even know what the hell is Usenet.

Thanks, Vanguard. But I love Tbird 102. Tbird had remained stable
through many versions over many years. And then suddenly I get an update
that has a message pane so small that the scroll bars are necessary and
occasionally a message's font is so large that only a few letters are
legible.
There's also the issue of letters in outbox; 102 shows them, whereas 115
only shows them if you also enable "show all counts", which litters the
whole display.

I appreciate Andy Burns' comment about updates, but it reads like some
kind of blackmail to accept a maimed and disfigured program.

Ed

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-10-17 18:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 2023-10-16 20:02, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >>> [...]
> >>>> I don't have any issue in that direction with Thunderbird. I participate
> >>>> on several mail lists which are plain text only, so monospace is a must.
> >>>> I think there is a setting that tells Thunderbird to use monospace for
> >>>> plain text.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, there is.
> >>>
> >>> In my 'stone-age' (60.9.0) Thunderbird:
> >>>
> >>> Tools -> Options -> 'Display' tab -> 'Formatting' sub-tab -> Fonts &
> >>> Colors -> Advanced... -> (this gives the 'Fonts & Encodings' popup) ->
> >>> Font control -> tick 'Use fixed width font for plain text messages'
> >>>
> >>>> Otherwise, I can post using html, and then set a paragraph to
> >>>> "preformat" which seems to actually mean "code", and it goes to
> >>>> monospace and no wrap.
> >>
> >> The problem I'm having now is that the font while composing the reply is
> >> too small, and I don't see the setting for it. I can do ctrl+, but it is
> >> tiring.
> >
> > I don't use Thunderbird for news, only for e-mail and - as I said -
> > use an old version.
> >
> > Having said that, I see that the font (and size) for composing is the
> > same as defined in the above mentioned 'Advanced...' setting of the
> > 'Display' tab, at least for the fixed width / monospace case.
>
> I found the problem: I had used (maybe days ago) "[Ctrl][+]" in the
> display window, so "[Ctrl][0]" corrected it. Now letters have the same
> size as in the compose window.
>
> The display window remembers the zoom level, but the compose window is
> new each time and thus at default zoom or 0.
>
> So now all is working nicely, except that I have to use a default size
> of 16 (18 for mono), which is huge. For some reason TH is thinking I
> have 14 years and can read comfortably such tiny sizes as they use for
> fonts (quite smaller than the same fonts in other programs, it seems to me).

Hmmm!? Strange! As I wrote (in the snipped part), I use 'Monospace:
Consolas Size: 14', which is large enough, nearly 3mm high for a tall
character like 't' on my 15.6" laptop screen (1920x1080).

Which (fixed width / monospace) font do you use?

On 2023-10-18 11:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-10-17 18:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:

....

>> I found the problem: I had used (maybe days ago) "[Ctrl][+]" in the
>> display window, so "[Ctrl][0]" corrected it. Now letters have the same
>> size as in the compose window.
>>
>> The display window remembers the zoom level, but the compose window is
>> new each time and thus at default zoom or 0.
>>
>> So now all is working nicely, except that I have to use a default size
>> of 16 (18 for mono), which is huge. For some reason TH is thinking I
>> have 14 years and can read comfortably such tiny sizes as they use for
>> fonts (quite smaller than the same fonts in other programs, it seems to me).
>
> Hmmm!? Strange! As I wrote (in the snipped part), I use 'Monospace:
> Consolas Size: 14', which is large enough, nearly 3mm high for a tall
> character like 't' on my 15.6" laptop screen (1920x1080).
>
> Which (fixed width / monospace) font do you use?

I have tried several, but the last one is Source Code Pro (Adobe).

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> There's a simple text for a good old rant here; something like this.
> >> 1. I had a very finely working Tbird. It did all I wanted with personal
> >> email and NG surfing.
> >> 2. All of a sudden an update arrived and screwed lots of things up.
> >> 3. I contacted my favourite NG, expecting that there'd be lots of fellow
> >> sufferers, and that we'd work together on the problem.
> >> 4. I got replies from people who didn't use Tbird or who used antique
> >> versions; hardly any from people who'd updated.
> >
> > You got several of the latter, but you ignored them.
> >
> >> 5. I was advised to change my settings, install this or that add-on,
> >> create a new profile.
> >
> > I don't remember seeing anything about an add-on, but yes, you were
> > advised to do the latter, because you were unwilling to do the first.
> >
> > The concept is called 'troubleshooting'. Get used to it, or hire
> > somebody to do it for you.
> >
> >> And they loaded on my shoulders so much work to do
> >> that I felt I'd be more profitably rewarded by writing a completely new
> >> newsreader. As if I had nothing better to do.
> >
> > More whining and whingeing, poor Ed.
> >
> >> 6. The situation is analogous to having a builder repair the porch. And
> >> when you complain that you didn't want pink paint or the letter-box
> >> seated diagonally or the doormat nailed to a hook on the wall, he tells
> >> you to shop around.
> >
> > Sorry, but we don't remember giving you a quote, nor you signing an
> > order. Can you please repost it? Never mind in which font.
> >
> >> Well, there you have it, an outline for a good rant. You can add a few
> >> f...ings and blindings as the mood takes you.
> >
> > It was a rant alright, don't know about the "good" part.
> >
> > Perhaps a little bit less whining, whingeing and ranting and a bit
> > more effort and action on your part?
> >
> > And, in the unlikely case you actually want to put some effort in
> > solving this, have a look at the other responses not (directly)
> > addressed to you. I think your answer might well lie in those.
>
> Here's your chance to shine, Frank.
> Tell us, as simply as you can, why 115 is better than 102.

Non sequitur to the max. But don't worry, we didn't expect anything
else.

As to your question, it only reconfirms that you've not been paying
any attention / spent any effort whatsoever.

QED.

HTH. HAND. EOD. NJ.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 16:55:39 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>I prefer to keep separate my e-mail and newsreader clients.

So do I.

>Too often
>I've seen users post intimated to Usenet instead of e-mail they
>intended. Ooops. Often all it takes is clicking on the wrong toolbar
>button for the difference between send to e-mail and send to Usenet.

Yes.

>While my newsreader does support e-mail, I have nothing within it
>configured to do e-mail. No e-mail servers defined. Yep, I have
>clicked the wrong toolbar button (R for reply by e-mail instead of F for
>follow up to newsgroup), but my client will fail on the send, because it
>has no info on an SMTP server.

Yes.

>Typically the problem with the all-in-one choices is they are not
>best-of-breed for any one of them. You get bloat for features you don't
>want (for me, chat, RSS, FTP, media player).

That's exactly why I don't like any kind of combo software, not just
newsreader/e-mail. I've probably said it here before, but I prefer
WordPerfect to Microsoft Word, but Excel to Quattro Pro.

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> There's also the issue of letters in outbox; 102 shows them, whereas 115
> only shows them if you also enable "show all counts", which litters the
> whole display.

I thought the Outbox was a local folder. If so, can you have Tbird show
just the Local Folders folder? If so, perhaps you could then collapse
the Local Folders folder, and only expand it if there was a problem,
like Tbird not sending due to some error.

https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2023/02/Folder-Pane-102-and-115-side-by-side-gigapixel-low_res-scale-2_00x.png

Compares 102 to 115 for the tree pane view. Looks like you can have the
Local Folders folder in both versions, and the Outbox folder is under
Local Folders. You can collapse/expand the Local Folders folder, too.

On 2023-10-18 17:05, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 16:55:39 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> I prefer to keep separate my e-mail and newsreader clients.
>
> So do I.
>
>
>> Too often
>> I've seen users post intimated to Usenet instead of e-mail they
>> intended. Ooops. Often all it takes is clicking on the wrong toolbar
>> button for the difference between send to e-mail and send to Usenet.
>
>
> Yes.

And often I wanted to forward a post on Usenet to another unrelated
person on Email.

It is non trivial to forward an email to Usenet, though.

Even ancient text mode software like Alpine (there is a Windows version
somewhere) handle both news and email.

>
>
>> While my newsreader does support e-mail, I have nothing within it
>> configured to do e-mail. No e-mail servers defined. Yep, I have
>> clicked the wrong toolbar button (R for reply by e-mail instead of F for
>> follow up to newsgroup), but my client will fail on the send, because it
>> has no info on an SMTP server.
>
>
> Yes.
>
>> Typically the problem with the all-in-one choices is they are not
>> best-of-breed for any one of them. You get bloat for features you don't
>> want (for me, chat, RSS, FTP, media player).
>
> That's exactly why I don't like any kind of combo software, not just
> newsreader/e-mail. I've probably said it here before, but I prefer
> WordPerfect to Microsoft Word, but Excel to Quattro Pro.

Often I generate text documents with spreadsheets inserted, so having
both in a combo is useful to me.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> Often I generate text documents with spreadsheets inserted, so having
> both in a combo is useful to me.

But a spreadsheet file would be an attachment to the Usenet message, and
attachments aren't allowed in text-only newsgroups. Maybe they're
allowed over in an Excel newsgroup, though.

If you highlighted all the cells (rows and columns) in the spreadsheet,
and pasted into a Usenet message, and because we're talking about
text-only newsgroups, wouldn't the columnar formatting get all screwed
up, especially if using a proportional font, but probably even if using
a fixed font?

On 2023-10-18 21:50, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Often I generate text documents with spreadsheets inserted, so having
>> both in a combo is useful to me.
>
> But a spreadsheet file would be an attachment to the Usenet message, and
> attachments aren't allowed in text-only newsgroups. Maybe they're
> allowed over in an Excel newsgroup, though.

Where do you think I said anything about attaching files on Usenet?

>
> If you highlighted all the cells (rows and columns) in the spreadsheet,
> and pasted into a Usenet message, and because we're talking about
> text-only newsgroups, wouldn't the columnar formatting get all screwed
> up, especially if using a proportional font, but probably even if using
> a fixed font?

It would work perfectly on html, and badly on plain text.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Often I generate text documents with spreadsheets inserted, so having
>>> both in a combo is useful to me.
>>
>> But a spreadsheet file would be an attachment to the Usenet message, and
>> attachments aren't allowed in text-only newsgroups. Maybe they're
>> allowed over in an Excel newsgroup, though.
>
> Where do you think I said anything about attaching files on Usenet?

Um, because we were discussing problem with Usenet encodings in Tbird
which is a combo client. While Tbird is a combo client, I didn't
realize the subthread shifted to e-mail.

Why would a combo e-mail+newsgroups client be handy for inserting some
spreadsheets in newsgroups? If the Usenet discussion about encoding
which wandered into using combo clients changed from Usenet to e-mail, I
missed it.

>> If you highlighted all the cells (rows and columns) in the spreadsheet,
>> and pasted into a Usenet message, and because we're talking about
>> text-only newsgroups, wouldn't the columnar formatting get all screwed
>> up, especially if using a proportional font, but probably even if using
>> a fixed font?
>
> It would work perfectly on html, and badly on plain text.

But HTML in plain-text newsgroups is a no-no. Most times it is
superfluous for e-mail. However, for e-mails, formatting can be handy,
like tables in the body, or attaching inline an image. Plain text for
either e-mail or newsgroups is lousy for importing or pasting columnar
data, especially with proportional fonts. Best you could do with plain
text (e-mail or newsgroups) is attach the file.

On 2023-10-19 02:48, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Often I generate text documents with spreadsheets inserted, so having
>>>> both in a combo is useful to me.
>>>
>>> But a spreadsheet file would be an attachment to the Usenet message, and
>>> attachments aren't allowed in text-only newsgroups. Maybe they're
>>> allowed over in an Excel newsgroup, though.
>>
>> Where do you think I said anything about attaching files on Usenet?
>
> Um, because we were discussing problem with Usenet encodings in Tbird
> which is a combo client. While Tbird is a combo client, I didn't
> realize the subthread shifted to e-mail.
>
> Why would a combo e-mail+newsgroups client be handy for inserting some
> spreadsheets in newsgroups? If the Usenet discussion about encoding
> which wandered into using combo clients changed from Usenet to e-mail, I
> missed it.

The context of that paragraph was combo software: WordPerfect, Microsoft
Word, Excel, Quattro Pro...

+++..............
>> Typically the problem with the all-in-one choices is they are not
>> best-of-breed for any one of them. You get bloat for features you don't
>> want (for me, chat, RSS, FTP, media player).
>
> That's exactly why I don't like any kind of combo software, not just
> newsreader/e-mail. I've probably said it here before, but I prefer
> WordPerfect to Microsoft Word, but Excel to Quattro Pro.

Often I generate text documents with spreadsheets inserted, so having
both in a combo is useful to me.
...............++-

>
>>> If you highlighted all the cells (rows and columns) in the spreadsheet,
>>> and pasted into a Usenet message, and because we're talking about
>>> text-only newsgroups, wouldn't the columnar formatting get all screwed
>>> up, especially if using a proportional font, but probably even if using
>>> a fixed font?
>>
>> It would work perfectly on html, and badly on plain text.
>
> But HTML in plain-text newsgroups is a no-no.

For no particular reason in the XXI century, and it actually works, but ok.

> Most times it is
> superfluous for e-mail. However, for e-mails, formatting can be handy,
> like tables in the body, or attaching inline an image. Plain text for
> either e-mail or newsgroups is lousy for importing or pasting columnar
> data, especially with proportional fonts. Best you could do with plain
> text (e-mail or newsgroups) is attach the file.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote

| > There's also the issue of letters in outbox; 102 shows them, whereas 115
| > only shows them if you also enable "show all counts", which litters the
| > whole display.
| | I thought the Outbox was a local folder. If so, can you have Tbird show
| just the Local Folders folder?

I think what he's talking about is the number next to "Outbox"
that shows an email waiting to be sent, or shows unopened
message count in other folders.

I still don't understand all this hoopla. Why can't people just
go back to a version they like and add a policies.json file if
necessary to block updates? With a browser there's at least
some logic to the idea of getting ssecurity updates. But email?
What's really different between my v. 52 and v. 115 in terms of
actual functionality? Javascript should be blocked, so there's
little or no security issue. TLS is up to date in older versions.

So many people are still thinking like it's the 90s, looking
forward to the next software version because it will actually
have useful, new stuff. These days it usually doesn't. In fact,
most software developers no longer even list changes. I've never
had a problem with T52. I install the same on Win7 and Win10.
It's never crashed and it handles my extensions.

Newyana2 wrote:
> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
>
> | > There's also the issue of letters in outbox; 102 shows them, whereas 115
> | > only shows them if you also enable "show all counts", which litters the
> | > whole display.
> |
> | I thought the Outbox was a local folder. If so, can you have Tbird show
> | just the Local Folders folder?
>
> I think what he's talking about is the number next to "Outbox"
> that shows an email waiting to be sent, or shows unopened
> message count in other folders.
>
> I still don't understand all this hoopla. Why can't people just
> go back to a version they like and add a policies.json file if
> necessary to block updates? With a browser there's at least
> some logic to the idea of getting ssecurity updates. But email?
> What's really different between my v. 52 and v. 115 in terms of
> actual functionality? Javascript should be blocked, so there's
> little or no security issue. TLS is up to date in older versions.
>
> So many people are still thinking like it's the 90s, looking
> forward to the next software version because it will actually
> have useful, new stuff. These days it usually doesn't. In fact,
> most software developers no longer even list changes. I've never
> had a problem with T52. I install the same on Win7 and Win10.
> It's never crashed and it handles my extensions.
>
>

Mozilla have just released yet another Tbird update. See the details
here. They're still discovering errors galore.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.3.3/releasenotes/?uri=/thunderbird/releasenotes/&locale=en-US&version=115.3.3&channel=release

BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
the profiles incompatible.

Ed