On 04/09/2022 13:04, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-09-04 11:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/09/2022 21:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-03 14:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/09/2022 13:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-09-03 06:30, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe a tablet with Chrome or Android.  I just spent some time trying
>>>>>> to find stuff for which I have seen advertisement but no luck.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "icons" on the Android "desktop" can be deleted, just by
>>>>> tapping and sliding. Worse, you can uninstall them. And
>>>>> typing-sliding can happen by accident.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I know people that are unable to find apps that are not in
>>>>> the main screen, but on the second.
>>>>>
>>>> That would be me, mostly. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Smartphone is as far as I am concerned the worst user experience of
>>>> any computer ever that I have used.
>>>>
>>>> Worst of all I completely lack the interest to even try to master
>>>> its GUI.
>>>
>>> Master, no, but use it sufficiently, you should be able. More and
>>> more things will depend on it, specially as we age, when learning
>>> becomes too hard.
>>>
>>>
>> I already am aged.
>
> Me too. Not much, but feeling it.
>
>>
>> The problem is the banks mostly are only interested in selling to the
>> young, so its all apple and android apps, whereas for people like us,
>> we need large screens with big fonts and preferably big buttons to press.
>>
>> A few years back we bought a 'simple mobile phone' with big buttons
>> and a big single character screen for an elderly person.
>
> Seen that.
>
>> The instruction manual was in 6 point font. I scanned it at 600 dpi
>> and blew it up to A4 size.
>
> Yuk.
>
>>
>> My banking software has a screen that only has to gave 4 boxes filled
>> in and then a 'submit' button filled in.
>>
>> The submit button is *off the screen* at any zoom factor that makes
>> the thing legible to anyone with less than 20/20 vision. Designed by
>> ArtStudents™ to whom 'ergonomics' is  an illegal sexual activity.
>
> Yuk.
>
>>
>> After you have filled in the details the only button visible is the
>> one saying 'have you lost your PIN?'
>>
>> Another bank guides you through help screens to either a video telling
>> you how to do it (handy if you have no sound) or back to the page
>> where you failed to achieve success the first time around.
>>
>> The problem with modern software is that high level tools have enabled
>> incompetent 'creatives' to produce web sites that simply fail to work.
>
> I know.
>
> I have no sight problem yet, but I have to fight with government pages
> to do this or that. Fight for days, sometimes weeks. Designed by donkeys.
>
> Some complicated page to fill up a form, and it would time out when I
> was in the middle. I had to prepare all the fields in a text file to
> copy paste the texts fast before the timeout.
>
The best one was the 'security audit'

I have a one man company that has a company bank account as its easier
to separate company transactions from private that way.
All its transactions are online. And paperless.

Te security audit required me to produce a company organisation chart,
and bills proving that the company existed at the stated address. The
only bill was the accountants bill.

This they said was not enough, and they were going to close my account.
I said 'fine' emptied all the money out of it and tried to close it.

I needed to supply an organisation chart and a bill to the company
proving that it existed at the stated address...before I could close it.

I gave up.

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> The submit button is *off the screen* at any zoom factor that makes the
> thing legible to anyone with less than 20/20 vision. Designed by
> ArtStudents? to whom 'ergonomics' is an illegal sexual activity.

Created by "designers" using Photoshop on a high-dpi retna Mac. For
whom the "beauty" on the Mac retnia screen was paramount, usability be
damned. The developers then had to recreate the designers dream layout
the best they could using HTML and CSS.

> The problem with modern software is that high level tools have enabled
> incompetent 'creatives' to produce web sites that simply fail to work.

Those imcompetents have always been there, it was just that in the
past, their 'impact' was much more limited to things like the layout of
the outer box, or the 'design' of the owners guide (which is also why
many owners guides are massive fails). Now their impact is seen
directly by everyone who is trying to use the web screens they
"designed", so we all feel the pain all the time now.

On 2022-09-04 14:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 04/09/2022 12:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2022-09-04 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 03/09/2022 20:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-03 14:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 03/09/2022 12:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-09-03 12:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> And freeze application configurations to *eliminate options*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kiosk mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ye, How do you do that?
>>>>
>>>> I have never done it myself, I would have to investigate :-D
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Found out how to do it on a web browser - unfortunately you cant exit
>>> from it easily.
>>
>> That's precisely the idea.
>>
>> But you need desktop kiosk mode, not browser kiosk mode.
>>
>>
> Yes. What I want is a web browser shorn of its menus with no possibility
> of upsetting its configuration. Kiosk mode is close, but it needs a
> closable and resizable frame. Not a full screen experience.
>
> Probably a mail client something like 1/10th as 'feature rich' as
> thunderbird, that also cannot be 'administered' by a user.
>
> And a users home directory, that cannot be moved by the user...
>

Which is full kiosk mode, not applications in kiosk mode.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-09-04 11:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> in reality, my smartphone has ended up doing 3 things for which I need
>> the phone, and a fourth that depends merely on its existence.
>>
>> 1/. SMS texts. 2FA codes and NHS appointment reminders come in via this
>> means
>> 2/. Satnav. A satnav transferable amongst vehicles with always up to day
>> information is the one thing I have found it useful for
>> 3/. Whatsapp. That is my primary means of personal communication, but I
>> use it on this desktop machine. I just need the phine to enable me to do
>> that
>> 4/. E-book reader. Whilst waiting in hospital waiting rooms etc etc.
>>
>> I almost never use it to make calls, and I rarely use it to receive calls.
>> All my normal contacts are on whatsapp.
>
> Well, so you are using it.
>
> There are more. For example:
>
> - 2FA codes for using the bank on the computer. For this, you need to
> install the bank app on the phone, because SMSs are not considered safe
> enough.

I hope mine doesn't go that way because I'm not going to keep an
up-to-date (it would need to be if I'm trusting apps to run
securely) smartphone just for that. In fact they only started doing
2FA SMS codes this year. I had an old mobile number linked to that
account - had to go in and sort that out in person. That account is
only used for online payments anyway.

My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
give its number out unless I have no other choice.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 05/09/2022 00:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-09-04 11:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> in reality, my smartphone has ended up doing 3 things for which I need
>>> the phone, and a fourth that depends merely on its existence.
>>>
>>> 1/. SMS texts. 2FA codes and NHS appointment reminders come in via this
>>> means
>>> 2/. Satnav. A satnav transferable amongst vehicles with always up to day
>>> information is the one thing I have found it useful for
>>> 3/. Whatsapp. That is my primary means of personal communication, but I
>>> use it on this desktop machine. I just need the phine to enable me to do
>>> that
>>> 4/. E-book reader. Whilst waiting in hospital waiting rooms etc etc.
>>>
>>> I almost never use it to make calls, and I rarely use it to receive calls.
>>> All my normal contacts are on whatsapp.
>>
>> Well, so you are using it.
>>
>> There are more. For example:
>>
>> - 2FA codes for using the bank on the computer. For this, you need to
>> install the bank app on the phone, because SMSs are not considered safe
>> enough.
>
> I hope mine doesn't go that way because I'm not going to keep an
> up-to-date (it would need to be if I'm trusting apps to run
> securely) smartphone just for that. In fact they only started doing
> 2FA SMS codes this year. I had an old mobile number linked to that
> account - had to go in and sort that out in person. That account is
> only used for online payments anyway.
>
> My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
> rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
> everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
> give its number out unless I have no other choice.
>
You can conceal your mobile phone number.
My ex did that when she wanted to make threatening anonymous phone calls.

--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/09/2022 00:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> - 2FA codes for using the bank on the computer. For this, you need to
>>> install the bank app on the phone, because SMSs are not considered safe
>>> enough.
>>
>> I hope mine doesn't go that way because I'm not going to keep an
>> up-to-date (it would need to be if I'm trusting apps to run
>> securely) smartphone just for that. In fact they only started doing
>> 2FA SMS codes this year. I had an old mobile number linked to that
>> account - had to go in and sort that out in person. That account is
>> only used for online payments anyway.
>>
>> My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
>> rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
>> everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
>> give its number out unless I have no other choice.
>>
> You can conceal your mobile phone number.

No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
on a mobile number.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 05/09/2022 00:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> - 2FA codes for using the bank on the computer. For this, you need to
>>>> install the bank app on the phone, because SMSs are not considered safe
>>>> enough.
>>>
>>> I hope mine doesn't go that way because I'm not going to keep an
>>> up-to-date (it would need to be if I'm trusting apps to run
>>> securely) smartphone just for that. In fact they only started doing
>>> 2FA SMS codes this year. I had an old mobile number linked to that
>>> account - had to go in and sort that out in person. That account is
>>> only used for online payments anyway.
>>>
>>> My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
>>> rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
>>> everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
>>> give its number out unless I have no other choice.
>>>
>> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
>
> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
> on a mobile number.
>

Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).

Am 05.09.22 um 03:41 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
>
> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
> on a mobile number.

Where do you live?
In Switzerland 2FA via SMS for internet banking was abolished roughly 4
years ago for security reasons. Today a smart phone is needed that
allows to scan a complex optical pattern created and valid only for a
very short period of time.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
> On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>> on a mobile number.
>>
>
>
> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).

That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
accept the options of modern technology.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 9/4/22 21:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>> On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>>> on a mobile number.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>
> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
> accept the options of modern technology.
>
He overlooks the possibility of the Phone Company
which enables his land line and I have one as well, which
uses digital equipment to enable switching and a lot more,
all of which is legally hackable with the proper warrants of
course. Nothing we say here is private and I have been
telling people that since I got BBS mediated Internet Email.
Nothing is ever finally erased until all the hard drives it
has been written to are destroyed and that will not be soon.

So if you write enough on the Internet and the Usenet your work
may persist for quite a while maybe as long as the Name of the
next quoted writer will, though you might not be as known.

"The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are
insane." (Mark Twain)

I hope this amuses someone, somewhere, some time.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
the Perfect Computer Linus Operating System(for me),
and a minor case of hypergraphia.
Free Registration at very finest sort of forum.
<https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php>

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 05/09/2022 05:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>> On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>>> on a mobile number.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>
> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
> accept the options of modern technology.
>
One day you will be very old yourself, and your words will come back to
haunt you.

Or renewable energy will cause your grid to fail, and you will realise
the advantages of a bank, in the town, with a manager who knows you, and
cash in a till, over a computer system that no longer works.

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 03:41 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
>>
>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>> on a mobile number.
>
> Where do you live?

Australia.

> In Switzerland 2FA via SMS for internet banking was abolished roughly 4
> years ago for security reasons. Today a smart phone is needed that
> allows to scan a complex optical pattern created and valid only for a
> very short period of time.

That's surprising. But my bank only started requiring 2FA for
transactions this year (I don't know whether it was an option
previously), so hopefully that's still some way off.

The account only briefly holds enough money to pay for each
purchase I make so I'd personally be happy with 1FA for that.
My accounts for keeping money long-term are offline-only, and in
fact they're with a different bank. I don't really trust online
banking no matter how many "factors" they require for
authentication.

That said, I did drop the folder with all my banking details inside
on the way back to the car a few months ago, and didn't realise
until I got home (15min drive away). No sign of it when I went
back, but fortunately someone handed it in a few days later. So I
can't pretend that in-person banking is fool-proof either. There's
only so much someone could have done with it without any ID though.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 05/09/2022 08:44, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 05.09.22 um 03:41 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
>>>
>>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>>> on a mobile number.
>>
>> Where do you live?
>
> Australia.
>
>> In Switzerland 2FA via SMS for internet banking was abolished roughly 4
>> years ago for security reasons. Today a smart phone is needed that
>> allows to scan a complex optical pattern created and valid only for a
>> very short period of time.
>
> That's surprising. But my bank only started requiring 2FA for
> transactions this year (I don't know whether it was an option
> previously), so hopefully that's still some way off.
>
> The account only briefly holds enough money to pay for each
> purchase I make so I'd personally be happy with 1FA for that.
> My accounts for keeping money long-term are offline-only, and in
> fact they're with a different bank. I don't really trust online
> banking no matter how many "factors" they require for
> authentication.
>
> That said, I did drop the folder with all my banking details inside
> on the way back to the car a few months ago, and didn't realise
> until I got home (15min drive away). No sign of it when I went
> back, but fortunately someone handed it in a few days later. So I
> can't pretend that in-person banking is fool-proof either. There's
> only so much someone could have done with it without any ID though.
>

Sometimes I think that Joseph Tainter's 'The Collapse of Complex
Civilisations' is. like '1984', being used as a text book, rather than a
warning.

In particular (and sorry for wandering way off the remit of the NG)
everyone should consider what the effect on their nation would be if a
complete power cut happened, and just how fast (urban) populations would
die if it did.

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

Am 05.09.22 um 09:28 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 05/09/2022 05:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>>
>> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
>> accept the options of modern technology.
>>
> One day you will be very old yourself, and your words will come back to
> haunt you.

No they won't. I'm already a senior citizen. I t is my philosophy to
always maximize the benefit technological and social development offer
me. And I do not believe in funny figures like "god". I strongly believe
in the power my brain.

> Or renewable energy will cause your grid to fail, and you will realise
> the advantages of a bank, in the town, with a manager who knows you, and
> cash in a till, over a computer system that no longer works.

They will give you not one single cent. Your manager will shoot at you
when you approach the bank's door in such a case.

Your unqualified statement about renewable energy says a lot about you.
You must be one of these "trumpists".

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 05.09.22 um 10:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> In particular (and sorry for wandering way off the remit of the NG)
> everyone should consider what the effect on their nation would be if a
> complete power cut happened, and just how fast (urban) populations would
> die if it did.

You are braindead. Sorry.
Life must have been very ugly to you, hasn'it?

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 05/09/2022 09:38, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 09:28 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 05/09/2022 05:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>>>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>>>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>>>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>>>
>>> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
>>> accept the options of modern technology.
>>>
>> One day you will be very old yourself, and your words will come back to
>> haunt you.
>
> No they won't. I'm already a senior citizen. I t is my philosophy to
> always maximize the benefit technological and social development offer
> me. And I do not believe in funny figures like "god". I strongly believe
> in the power my brain.
>
>> Or renewable energy will cause your grid to fail, and you will realise
>> the advantages of a bank, in the town, with a manager who knows you, and
>> cash in a till, over a computer system that no longer works.
>
> They will give you not one single cent. Your manager will shoot at you
> when you approach the bank's door in such a case.
>
> Your unqualified statement about renewable energy says a lot about you.
> You must be one of these "trumpists".
>
>
No, I am a highly qualified UK electrical engineer.

I have done the research, and the sums.
If you haven't, refrain from assuming an experts knowledge is political
partisanship.

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 05/09/2022 09:42, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 10:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> In particular (and sorry for wandering way off the remit of the NG)
>> everyone should consider what the effect on their nation would be if a
>> complete power cut happened, and just how fast (urban) populations would
>> die if it did.
>
> You are braindead. Sorry.

I don't think so.
In fact it sounds like you are in denial.

> Life must have been very ugly to you, hasn'it?
>
I don't think life is particularly kind to anyone
Life's a bitch, and then you die.

But why the ad hominems? Run out of rational arguments?

I am just pointing out that civilization has today a massive single
point of failure.
And that green fashion and profiteering has increased the likelihood of
its failure.

--
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

On 2022-09-05 03:41, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 05/09/2022 00:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> - 2FA codes for using the bank on the computer. For this, you need to
>>>> install the bank app on the phone, because SMSs are not considered safe
>>>> enough.
>>>
>>> I hope mine doesn't go that way because I'm not going to keep an
>>> up-to-date (it would need to be if I'm trusting apps to run
>>> securely) smartphone just for that. In fact they only started doing
>>> 2FA SMS codes this year. I had an old mobile number linked to that
>>> account - had to go in and sort that out in person. That account is
>>> only used for online payments anyway.
>>>
>>> My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
>>> rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
>>> everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
>>> give its number out unless I have no other choice.
>>>
>> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
>
> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
> on a mobile number.

And they will eventually insist on a smartphone.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2022-09-05 01:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/09/2022 00:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

....

>> My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
>> rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
>> everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
>> give its number out unless I have no other choice.
>>
> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
> My ex did that when she wanted to make threatening anonymous phone calls.

Be aware that, depending whom you call, your concealed number will still
be displayed, instantly.

There are two capabilities involved:

a) Hide A number from B.
b) Refuse hidding the number.

And b has priority, for those destinations that have permission to use
it. Who are those? Police, hospitals, telephone companies. Depends on
your national regulations.

Also, if the person receiving the anonymous call goes to the police, the
court can order that all incoming calls be logged. In this case even
anonymous calls get their number printed in the log. In ancient
exchanges the exchange alarm bell would ring, so that the operator on
duty had to go to the log printer where he would see the cause of the
alarm in a highlighted box printed. Maybe on a single page, so that he
could cut the page and call the police or the court.

Oh, and there is no 2 minutes needed to find the number, as shown in
movies. It is instantaneous (depending on country).

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 05.09.22 um 12:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 05/09/2022 09:38, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Your unqualified statement about renewable energy says a lot about you.
>> You must be one of these "trumpists".
>>
>>
> No, I am a highly qualified UK electrical engineer.
>
> I have done the research, and the sums.
> If you haven't, refrain from assuming an experts knowledge is political
> partisanship.

You certainly have no up to date expert knowledge on renewables. In
today's world of continent-wide grids even wind-energy is categorised as
base band energy, dear.

Without renewables your grand-children will have non future. It is very
simple.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 05.09.22 um 12:15 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 05/09/2022 09:42, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 05.09.22 um 10:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>> In particular (and sorry for wandering way off the remit of the NG)
>>> everyone should consider what the effect on their nation would be if a
>>> complete power cut happened, and just how fast (urban) populations would
>>> die if it did.
>>
>> You are braindead. Sorry.
>
> I don't think so.
> In fact it sounds like you are in denial

Denial of what?

>> Life must have been very ugly to you, hasn'it?
>>
> I don't think life is particularly kind to anyone
> Life's a bitch, and then you die.
>
> But why the ad hominems? Run out of rational arguments?

You claim things which are simply absurd. A kind of digital Muppet Show.

> I am just pointing out that civilization has today a massive single
> point of failure.

No it hasn't.

> And that green fashion and profiteering has increased the likelihood of
> its failure.

I see decade-long profiteering in the oil, gas and the coal industry.
And now again.

I will never accept such braindead conspriacy theories. You try to
spread them here in the Usenet.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 05/09/2022 16:54, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 12:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 05/09/2022 09:38, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Your unqualified statement about renewable energy says a lot about you.
>>> You must be one of these "trumpists".
>>>
>>>
>> No, I am a highly qualified UK electrical engineer.
>>
>> I have done the research, and the sums.
>> If you haven't, refrain from assuming an experts knowledge is political
>> partisanship.
>
> You certainly have no up to date expert knowledge on renewables. In
> today's world of continent-wide grids even wind-energy is categorised as
> base band energy, dear.

You certainly have no up to date expert knowledge on renewables.
Whatever wind energy is claimed to be, I know what it actually is.
A museum piece.

I dont need to refer to an authority, I am an authority.

>
> Without renewables your grand-children will have non future. It is very
> simple.
>
>
With renewables your grandchildren have no future It is very simple.

In ten years no more renewable energy will be deployed anywhere.

Wait and see. I am not interested in your religion

--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

On 9/5/22 09:03, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 12:15 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

No use arguing with this one. He is impervious to current
data. He cannot tell the difference between Climate Change which we
are currently enduring and merely bad weather which is the result
of the Change. He wishes to maintain his carbon enabled way of life.
That is why he is in my filter.

He is living in the past and is happy there in ignorance.
The melting of merely dead ice in Greenland will raise the Sea Level by
about 10 inches. The Antarctic ice is a far more serious matter and
the penguins will have trouble reaching their former breeding sites.

bliss-
"The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are
insane." (Mark Twain)
--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 05/09/2022 17:43, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 9/5/22 09:03, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 05.09.22 um 12:15 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>
>     No use arguing with this one.  He is impervious to current
> data.  He cannot tell the difference between Climate Change which we
> are currently enduring and merely bad weather which is the result
> of the Change. He wishes to maintain his carbon enabled way of life.
> That is why he is in my filter.

I think you are projecting

Its you who cannot tell the difference.

I dont wish to maintain a carbon enabled way of life. I wish to
maintain civilisation.
We all know that windmills and solar panels will not enable that.
So it will have to be nuclear power
>
>     He is living in the past and is happy there in ignorance.
> The melting of merely dead ice in Greenland will raise the Sea Level by
> about 10 inches.

The amount of energy to do that is stupendous. It will take several
thousand years - or it would if it were melting, which it isn't.

  The Antarctic ice is a far more serious matter and
> the penguins will have trouble reaching their former breeding sites.
>
Good thing the Antarctic ice is overall, increasing, then

Wild Penguins in the sun

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cape%20Town/DSC_1023.JPG

--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

Am 05.09.22 um 18:24 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> You certainly have no up to date expert knowledge on renewables.
> Whatever wind energy is claimed to be, I know what it actually is.
> A museum piece.
>
> I dont need to refer to an authority, I am an authority.

Usually I pl.nk silently ...

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)