On 2022-09-05, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 05.09.22 um 09:28 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>
>> On 05/09/2022 05:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>
>>> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>>>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>>>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>>>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>>>
>>> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
>>> accept the options of modern technology.
>>
>> One day you will be very old yourself, and your words will come back to
>> haunt you.
>
> No they won't. I'm already a senior citizen. I t is my philosophy to
> always maximize the benefit technological and social development offer
> me.

Mine too. And the overly-complicated and difficult-to-use
mechanisms offered by modern technology do not benefit me -
so I refuse to use them.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-09-05 03:41, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 05/09/2022 00:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> - 2FA codes for using the bank on the computer. For this, you need to
>>>>> install the bank app on the phone, because SMSs are not considered safe
>>>>> enough.
>>>>
>>>> I hope mine doesn't go that way because I'm not going to keep an
>>>> up-to-date (it would need to be if I'm trusting apps to run
>>>> securely) smartphone just for that. In fact they only started doing
>>>> 2FA SMS codes this year. I had an old mobile number linked to that
>>>> account - had to go in and sort that out in person. That account is
>>>> only used for online payments anyway.
>>>>
>>>> My 'dumb' phone is only used for SMS and voice calls, and both are
>>>> rare. It's bare-bones online functionality died ages ago when
>>>> everything went HTTPS, and I prefer to use a landline so I don't
>>>> give its number out unless I have no other choice.
>>>>
>>> You can conceal your mobile phone number.
>>
>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>> on a mobile number.
>
> And they will eventually insist on a smartphone.

I only use the account for about a dozen transactions a year at the
moment. Given that smartphones cost hundreds and go unsupported
after a few years, factoring that cost in would make the cost per
transaction (currently $0 if I do everything right and it doesn't
involve currency conversion) much higher.

I previously used a pre-paid credit card which emailed a code for
2FA, so maybe I would try switching back to that again and see
whether websites have stopped rejecting payments from it. Or is
email 2FA considered insecure as well in this hypothetical?

Actually I think trying to second-guess the future behaviour of a
bank that's only just brought in SMS 2FA is a stretch, regardless
of what's happening overseas (and has apparantly been happening
quite differently for many years in some places).

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 9/5/22 12:49 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>> On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>>> on a mobile number.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>
> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
> accept the options of modern technology.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHa !

Did you do your CRITICAL UPDATES to your iPhone/tabs
last week ? HOW LONG had the problems been there before
Apple bothered to mention it ? Just spy/mal-ware issue
#9999 ......

Oh yea, I bank AT A BANK with slips of PAPER in front
of PEOPLE who know me :-)

On 9/5/22 2:03 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 9/4/22 21:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>>> On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>>>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>>>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>>>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>>>> on a mobile number.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>>>     Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>>>     purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>>
>> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
>> accept the options of modern technology.
>>
>     He overlooks the possibility of the Phone Company
> which enables his land line and I have one as well, which
> uses digital equipment to enable switching and a lot more,
> all of which is legally hackable with the proper warrants of
> course.   Nothing we say here is private and I have been
> telling people that since I got BBS mediated Internet Email.
> Nothing is ever finally erased until all the hard drives it
> has been written to are destroyed and that will not be soon.

Let's see 'em get my bank acct/CC numbers out of my
landline phone :-)

On 9/5/22 6:27 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-09-05, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Am 05.09.22 um 09:28 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>
>>> On 05/09/2022 05:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>>>>> Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>>>>> Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>>>>> purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>>>>
>>>> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
>>>> accept the options of modern technology.
>>>
>>> One day you will be very old yourself, and your words will come back to
>>> haunt you.
>>
>> No they won't. I'm already a senior citizen. I t is my philosophy to
>> always maximize the benefit technological and social development offer
>> me.
>
> Mine too. And the overly-complicated and difficult-to-use
> mechanisms offered by modern technology do not benefit me -
> so I refuse to use them.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/05/thieves-break-womans-phone-go-whistle-stop-spree-raiding-gym/

A woman has revealed how thieves broke into her phone and
spent thousands of pounds after raiding her locker at the gym.

Charlotte, from west London, said that on August 24 thieves
broke into her locker at the Virgin Active gym in Chiswick
and stole all of her belongings after breaking into her
padlocked locker, including her bank card and phone, before
draining more than £8,000 from her accounts.

While she believes they accessed her card’s Pin through
the mobile banking app, Santander accused her of sharing
her bank details with friends or even writing them on the
card itself.

The thieves reset Charlotte’s bank details as well as her
Apple Pay security before going on what she described as a
“whistle-stop spree”.

They spent more than £3,000 in the Apple Store in White City
followed by further purchases at the Regent Street branch.

.. . .

Just ONE story ......

Yea, banking with your 'smart'-phone is SO great ....

Brick-n-mortar banks, human employees that know your
face and way of doing things, slips of paper .....
MUCH harder for "Them" to get into.

Modern tech CAN be just great - but KNOW it's limits,
KNOW it's weak points.

As often as possible I still buy gas by paying IN CASH.
Way WAY too many 'card skimmers' in gas pumps these days.
Who's responsibility ? They'll all deny. CC company says
they'll forgive all ? Nope. "PROVE you weren't in Kathmandu
this morning !" is not above them. The tighter the economy
becomes, the more you'll see such testiness.

I can support going back to transactions in GOLD.
Envision something about the size of a PEZ dispenser
or BIC lighter ... but it contains a roll of 0.025"
24 karat stuck to a backing for strength. Top off yer
SUV, one inch please. X-ray florescence devices that
can qualify metals down to a percent or so are
relatively cheap these days - no cheating, no counterfeiting,
no account numbers, no paper-trails, no bullshit. It's a
system that's extremely hard to game on any useful scale.

Am 05.09.22 um 18:43 schrieb Bobbie Sellers:
> No use arguing with this one.

Right. It took me some time.
People who call themselves an authority are brain-dead.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 05/09/2022 21:13, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 18:24 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> You certainly have no up to date expert knowledge on renewables.
>> Whatever wind energy is claimed to be, I know what it actually is.
>> A museum piece.
>>
>> I dont need to refer to an authority, I am an authority.
>
> Usually I pl.nk silently ...
>
>
In denial of the truth

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 06/09/2022 07:12, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.09.22 um 18:43 schrieb Bobbie Sellers:
>> No use arguing with this one.
>
> Right. It took me some time.
> People who call themselves an authority are brain-dead.
>
>
I take it that applies to all the people who claim that man made global
warming is a fact? And that windmills will save us from it?

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 2022-09-06 02:00, 25B.Z969 wrote:
> On 9/5/22 2:03 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 9/4/22 21:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 05.09.22 um 06:40 schrieb 25B.Z969:
>>>> On 9/4/22 9:41 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> No I mean I don't tell people my mobile number so that I'm not
>>>>> obliged to use it, I only want people to call on the landline. It's
>>>>> only turned on when I want to use it anyway. PayPal will call up a
>>>>> landline for their verification code system, but the bank insists
>>>>> on a mobile number.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Wise ... limit the mobile to where there's no other choice.
>>>>     Olde-fashioned landlines/answer-machines DO serve a good
>>>>     purpose (and nobody can hack your info our of them).
>>>
>>> That is nonsense of mentally very old people unwilling to learn and
>>> accept the options of modern technology.
>>>
>>      He overlooks the possibility of the Phone Company
>> which enables his land line and I have one as well, which
>> uses digital equipment to enable switching and a lot more,
>> all of which is legally hackable with the proper warrants of
>> course.   Nothing we say here is private and I have been
>> telling people that since I got BBS mediated Internet Email.
>> Nothing is ever finally erased until all the hard drives it
>> has been written to are destroyed and that will not be soon.
>
>
>   Let's see 'em get my bank acct/CC numbers out of my
>   landline phone :-)

So what? That number is almost public, they can do nothing with it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 06.09.22 um 12:50 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2022-09-06 02:00, 25B.Z969 wrote:
>>   Let's see 'em get my bank acct/CC numbers out of my
>>   landline phone :-)
>
> So what? That number is almost public, they can do nothing with it.

+1

--
Ex iniuria ius non oritur