On 11/11/2022 18:39, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> $ grep nobody /etc/passwd
>> nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin
>>
>> IIRC this was the identity used with anonymous ftp logins, in the days
>> when trust still existed.
>
> Nobody is what "root" maps to when using NFS without explicitly trusting
> root. If you don't have any NFS packages installed, you might not have
> the account.
>
> First simple page I could find explaining:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nobody
>
> That has citations to
> https://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2006/ols2006v2-pages-59-72.pdf
>
> "Why NFS Sucks", see section 9 on security (page 60 as numbered, page 10
> as seen in PDF) in particular.
>
>

Yeah. Whatever. Ive been NFS mounting my remote servers for decades

I trust my firewalls, and I am not concerned about men in the middle
reading stuff.

> https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/linag2/book/ch14.html
>
> Search for "root_squash"
>
> Elijah
> ------
> squash are gourds not roots

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On 2022-11-11, G <g@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

> Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:52:15 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 00:10:03 -0500, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/7/22 1:21 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The new system of governance is corporate fascism.
>>>>
>>>> If so, why do they allow pols that tax/regulate them
>>>> out of zillions of dollars - or just drive them to
>>>> ruin ???
>>>>
>>>> Nope, the corps aren't running things either.
>>>>
>>>> I am going to posit that NOBODY is "running things"
>>>> to any relevant degree.
>>>
>>> There was a user "nobody" on one of my old Linux installations. Cannot
>>> find it on Debian here anymore though.
>>
>> Still here on My Mageia Linux
>> $ grep nobody /etc/passwd
>> nobody:x:65534:65534:Nobody:/:/bin/sh
>
> In my Fedora it's more specific and blocked (nologin)
> nobody:x:65534:65534:Kernel Overflow User:/:/sbin/nologin

Debian Bullseye:
nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On 11/12/22 6:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/11/2022 18:39, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.misc, The Natural Philosopher  <tnp@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> $ grep nobody /etc/passwd
>>> nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin
>>>
>>> IIRC this was the identity used with anonymous ftp logins, in the days
>>> when trust still existed.
>>
>> Nobody is what "root" maps to when using NFS without explicitly trusting
>> root. If you don't have any NFS packages installed, you might not have
>> the account.
>>
>> First simple page I could find explaining:
>>      https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nobody
>>
>> That has citations to
>>       https://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2006/ols2006v2-pages-59-72.pdf
>>
>> "Why NFS Sucks", see section 9 on security (page 60 as numbered, page 10
>> as seen in PDF) in particular.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah. Whatever. Ive been NFS mounting my remote servers for decades
>
> I trust my firewalls, and I am not concerned about men in the middle
> reading stuff.

Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major
defense contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking
in "the middle" for hours/days trying to steal your stuff.
The greater threat is an insider who is either angry or
working as someone's spy - and they'll have full access
to unencrypted versions of the target material.

NFS is "ok". In these days either SMB or NFS is perfectly
acceptable. SMB is easier to get working with Winders
however ... so if your shop is a few -ix servers and a
lot of Winders clients then SMB is going to be the path
of least resistance.

On 15/11/2022 04:34, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> On 11/12/22 6:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 11/11/2022 18:39, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc, The Natural Philosopher  <tnp@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>> $ grep nobody /etc/passwd
>>>> nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin
>>>>
>>>> IIRC this was the identity used with anonymous ftp logins, in the days
>>>> when trust still existed.
>>>
>>> Nobody is what "root" maps to when using NFS without explicitly trusting
>>> root. If you don't have any NFS packages installed, you might not have
>>> the account.
>>>
>>> First simple page I could find explaining:
>>>      https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nobody
>>>
>>> That has citations to
>>>       https://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2006/ols2006v2-pages-59-72.pdf
>>>
>>> "Why NFS Sucks", see section 9 on security (page 60 as numbered, page 10
>>> as seen in PDF) in particular.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yeah. Whatever. Ive been NFS mounting my remote servers for decades
>>
>> I trust my firewalls, and I am not concerned about men in the middle
>> reading stuff.
>
>
>  Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major
>  defense contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking
>  in "the middle" for hours/days trying to steal your stuff.
>  The greater threat is an insider who is either angry or
>  working as someone's spy - and they'll have full access
>  to unencrypted versions of the target material.
>
>  NFS is "ok". In these days either SMB or NFS is perfectly
>  acceptable. SMB is easier to get working with Winders
>  however ... so if your shop is a few -ix servers and a
>  lot of Winders clients then SMB is going to be the path
>  of least resistance.

I am a one man shop these days.
100% linux

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 11/15/22 6:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 15/11/2022 04:34, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> On 11/12/22 6:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2022 18:39, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> $ grep nobody /etc/passwd
>>>>> nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC this was the identity used with anonymous ftp logins, in the days
>>>>> when trust still existed.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody is what "root" maps to when using NFS without explicitly
>>>> trusting
>>>> root. If you don't have any NFS packages installed, you might not have
>>>> the account.
>>>>
>>>> First simple page I could find explaining:
>>>>      https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nobody
>>>>
>>>> That has citations to
>>>>       https://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2006/ols2006v2-pages-59-72.pdf
>>>>
>>>> "Why NFS Sucks", see section 9 on security (page 60 as numbered,
>>>> page 10
>>>> as seen in PDF) in particular.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah. Whatever. Ive been NFS mounting my remote servers for decades
>>>
>>> I trust my firewalls, and I am not concerned about men in the middle
>>> reading stuff.
>>
>>
>>   Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major
>>   defense contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking
>>   in "the middle" for hours/days trying to steal your stuff.
>>   The greater threat is an insider who is either angry or
>>   working as someone's spy - and they'll have full access
>>   to unencrypted versions of the target material.
>>
>>   NFS is "ok". In these days either SMB or NFS is perfectly
>>   acceptable. SMB is easier to get working with Winders
>>   however ... so if your shop is a few -ix servers and a
>>   lot of Winders clients then SMB is going to be the path
>>   of least resistance.
>
> I am a one man shop these days.
> 100% linux

I don't have that luxury. I have bosses who reason
that "Since everyone else uses MS then ... otherwise
there might be CRITICISM !"

"Winders ?" Nope - use Linux. "Office" - nope use
LibreOffice. Exchange - nope use Kerio Connect.
And, and, and ........... but the pointy-haired
bosses won't hear it.

Oh well, I can retire any time now ... sit back
and watch the implosions .......... the Pointy's
will blame it all on the new techs for not turning
shit into Shinola :-)

On 11/9/22 4:10 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>
>> No One is in charge. We are supposed to be in charge but
>> people who do not vote are abdicating their sole authority over
>> whatever comes to pass. Well that is the USA where all the
>> voters are in charge. I voted and the USA and California have
>> to live with my choices and those of the rest of the Electorate.
>
> I don't have to live with my choices, the electorate never gives
> me a chance to.
>
>> In Linux, Linus has the final word.
>
> Back on topic! But even if he has the final word, it will only get
> him so far if he wants to sustain Linux as the main focus for OS
> code contributed by programmers from large organisations. A fine
> example is the death of XFree86 - the leadership annoyed some of
> the contributors, including those working for big businesses, so
> those contributors just went their own way with Xorg and left the
> XFree86 project to gradually run down to a stop.

Linus DOES have a bit of a rep as a 'dictator'. On
the whole, what annoys him seems quite reasonable,
but his staff/contributors may not always see it
that way. There MAY come a point ....

On the plus, Linux is "big enough" now - in SO many
things and infrastructure systems - that it's PROBABLY
safe for at least a decade or two.

I see "AI" systems ultimately replacing all the
extant OS's. They will be very flexible and
"smart" (and nobody will really have a clue how
they work). Triple current computational speed
and they'll be tomorrow's go-to.

"26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noada.net> writes:
> Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major defense
> contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking in "the middle" for
> hours/days trying to steal your stuff.

All sorts of organizations get hacked.

NFS isn’t a very likely point of entry since it’s not usually exposed to
the Internet, although I suppose it might be exploited for lateral
movement.

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 2022-11-16, 26C.Z968 <26C.Z968@noada.net> wrote:

> Linus DOES have a bit of a rep as a 'dictator'. On
> the whole, what annoys him seems quite reasonable,
> but his staff/contributors may not always see it
> that way. There MAY come a point ....

Still, when it comes to dictators, Linus is pretty mild
compared to Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg,
Elon Musk, etc.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

26C.Z968 <26C.Z968@noada.net> wrote:
> On 11/9/22 4:10 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In Linux, Linus has the final word.
>>
>> Back on topic! But even if he has the final word, it will only get
>> him so far if he wants to sustain Linux as the main focus for OS
>> code contributed by programmers from large organisations. A fine
>> example is the death of XFree86 - the leadership annoyed some of
>> the contributors, including those working for big businesses, so
>> those contributors just went their own way with Xorg and left the
>> XFree86 project to gradually run down to a stop.
>
> Linus DOES have a bit of a rep as a 'dictator'. On
> the whole, what annoys him seems quite reasonable,
> but his staff/contributors may not always see it
> that way. There MAY come a point ....
>
> On the plus, Linux is "big enough" now - in SO many
> things and infrastructure systems - that it's PROBABLY
> safe for at least a decade or two.

Hopefully, but it depends on how diversified the contributors are,
particularly with hardware drivers. If you look at Android, which
is a prior example of Linux being forked because a big company
wanted to do things their way, there are endless Android devices
with drivers that are incompatible with Linux and therefore pretty
useless with it. Perhaps all it would take is for a few companies
like Intel to favour a new fork of the Linux codebase because Linus
upset them, and things would go the same way for Linux on x86?

> I see "AI" systems ultimately replacing all the
> extant OS's. They will be very flexible and
> "smart" (and nobody will really have a clue how
> they work). Triple current computational speed
> and they'll be tomorrow's go-to.

AI fulfills a different role to traditional systems. Most things
that people want computers for are better being implemented
precisely in code, rather than relying on a few tests to determine
that some unknown AI model has found a good-enough solution. It's
only really useful for tasks where traditional programming is just
too hard.

I imagine AI similar to electronics, where if something works, but
you don't understand exactly how it works, then it probably won't
work with all possible variations of the operating environment.
When the difference is whether the best result for an image pattern
recognition is at position 1 or position 2 in the results, that
doesn't matter so much. If it's whether the amount that you just
transferred from your bank account was $100,000 or $200,000, then
it matters a lot! The latter is something you want done in real
code, not a black-box AI, and that includes most core OS tasks:
reading keystrokes, picking characters from a font, displaying on a
monitor, encrypting the data, talking to the network interface...
You don't want a system where it sometimes displays a 2 instead of
a 1 because you upgraded your network interface and the AI had been
using some timing coincidence of interrupts from the NIC as part of
the algorithum by which it most efficiently selects characters
from a font. Introducing that sort of uncertainty at the OS level
just doesn't make sense.

Maybe one day AI will be smart enough that it can actually
understand a task and write a solution in traditional code itself.
Then it might play a role in core OS development. But it probably
needs to be sentient by that point.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 11/16/22 1:13 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-16, 26C.Z968 <26C.Z968@noada.net> wrote:
>
>> Linus DOES have a bit of a rep as a 'dictator'. On
>> the whole, what annoys him seems quite reasonable,
>> but his staff/contributors may not always see it
>> that way. There MAY come a point ....
>
> Still, when it comes to dictators, Linus is pretty mild
> compared to Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg,
> Elon Musk, etc.

Linus is testy when it comes to TECHNICAL issues.
The others are only interested in PROFIT issues.

On 11/9/22 7:29 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> And I *do* prefer 'ifconfig' to 'ip'. Much more straight-up
>>> informative report ... what you're REALLY looking for .....
>>
>> Your options are change distribution or find desired package and install
>> it yourself. ifconfig still available in Mageia Linux
>>
>> $ gsr ifconfig
>> Looked for : ifconfig
>> Using : /usr/sbin/ifconfig
>> Installed rpm : net-tools-2.0-0.20150915git.6.mga8
>> rpm short name: net-tools
>> Source rpm : net-tools-2.0-0.20150915git.6.mga8.src.rpm
>> Information : http://www.tazenda.demon.co.uk/phil/net-tools/
>> Packager : umeabot <umeabot>
>> Summary : The basic tools for setting up networking
>>
>> but after reading this snippet from ifconfig man page
>> This program is obsolete! For replacement check ip addr and ip link.
>> For statistics use ip -s link.
>>
>> I modified all my scripts ifconfig to ip commands and put ip commands
>> in my unix.help text files for easy lookup.
>
> It doesn't have that on Debian, but for some reason they've stuck
> to net-tools version 1.60.

Yep. One of the first things I install :-)

In THEORY, 'IP' does it all - but with 'completeness'
comes far more COMPLEXITY. Plus, as a newer product,
there is less useful info to be had about how to
solve YOUR particular need. It's like ffmpeg ... there
are half a dozen ways to do what you want IF you can
find good examples of even ONE ........

> There's also an ifconfig program in GNU inetutils which is
> interchangable for my usage (inetutils-tools package on Debian),
> and it doesn't advertise obsolescence so far as I know. Plus
> there's a bare-bones ifconfig command available in Busybox.
>
> I don't expect to be deprived of it any time soon.

The will to "improve" good things out of existence
is strong. It's how the 'new guys' justify their
existence, entrench their power. Psych-101 ...

Come on now ... "ifconfig" alone gives you a list
of your devices and all the relevant numbers, no
bullshit. 95% of the time that's all I ever need.
It can also SET params pretty easily, in case I
need a finer tweak. LOTS of practical examples ...

So, I never use 'ip' .....

On 11/10/22 5:01 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-11-07 04:41, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> On 11/6/22 8:00 AM, Andrei Z. wrote:
>>> Pancho wrote:
>>>> On 06/11/2022 02:02, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>>>>> On 10/29/22 10:51 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/28/22 01:51, Andrei Z. wrote:
>>>>>>> "Time is an illusion, Unix time doubly so..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.netmeister.org/blog/epoch.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Discussion on Hacker News
>>>>>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33341652
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Wait until you are over 80 to tell us time is
>>>>>> an illusion.  Time is duration aka how long something
>>>>>> lasts.  I have lasted with changes over 85 years.
>>>>>>      Unix time is as long as Unix lasts and is
>>>>>> a useful idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     bliss-the ineluctable, formerly implacable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Unix time will outlast Unix.
>>>>
>>>> cal has disappeared from Ubuntu 22.04!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> $ apt show ncal
>>> ...
>>> This package contains the "ncal" program and the traditional "cal"
>>> program, both are commonly found on BSD-style systems. ...
>>>
>>> $ apt policy ncal
>>> ncal:
>>>    Installed: 12.1.7+nmu3ubuntu2
>>>    Candidate: 12.1.7+nmu3ubuntu2
>>>    Version table:
>>>   *** 12.1.7+nmu3ubuntu2 500
>>>          500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy/universe amd64
>>> Packages
>>>          100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>>>
>>
>>    I've noticed a number of olde-tyme utilities disappearing.
>>    OpenSUSE dropped a number I was using, and now the trend
>>    seems to be spreading. The "improved" versions really ain't.
>>
>>    Problem - lots of software saves a LOT of code by just running
>>    those utilities in a shell and parsing what comes back. Suddenly
>>    it's broken ....
>>
>>    And I *do* prefer 'ifconfig' to 'ip'. Much more straight-up
>>    informative report ... what you're REALLY looking for .....
>
>
> openSUSE has ifconfig, if you really want it. But you shouldn't.

But I *DO* want it ... it's all I ever need or want and
there's a decade+ of useful examples to be had. It's
one of the first things I install on any system that
lacks it by default. It's perfect for my needs and
the New Guys trying to ruin good things to their own
advantage can stick it.

So I *do* and *will* ...

> For instance:
>
> With the servers that mount Infiniband cards, when I use the ifconfig
> command, I get this warning:
>
> Ifconfig uses the ioctl access method to get the full address
> information, which limits hardware addresses to 8 bytes.
> Because Infiniband address has 20 bytes, only the first 8 bytes
> are displayed correctly.
> Ifconfig is obsolete! For replacement check ip.
>
>
> https://inai.de/2008/02/19?range=2008/02/19
>
> ifconfig sucks
>
> On Linux, ifconfig is an archaic network interface configuration
> command.

That works VERY well ...

> The implementation commonly encountered, "net-tools", has a
> number of problems which make it more and more unsuitable. The list of
> replacements is below.

Not interested.

Oh yea, I'm boycotting OpenSUSE *because* it took away
a number of the good, get-it-done, well-documented,
utility pgms. I used to pimp it as a "Cadillac system",
but I don't think I'll ever use it again.

I'm trending towards the Devuan side of the force,
bright and good.

On 11/16/22 3:54 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noada.net> writes:
>> Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major defense
>> contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking in "the middle" for
>> hours/days trying to steal your stuff.
>
> All sorts of organizations get hacked

But in different WAYS.

Nobody is going to go MiM on some low-level biz
or local govt district. WAY too much work for WAY
too little return.

The "little guys" are most likely to fall victim
to phishing mails and ransomware from evil links.
Currently "fake invoices" seem to be The Thing.

"Security" (and I do put that in quotes) has to be
customized for every particular operation. Sometimes
it's a tech fix, sometimes a "human factors" fix.
To put CIA-level security measures on Joe's Fish
Market is ridiculous, frustrating, expensive idiocy.

> NFS isn’t a very likely point of entry since it’s not usually exposed to
> the Internet, although I suppose it might be exploited for lateral
> movement.

Theoretically. It kinda depends on the size of the org
and how it uses its resources ... "very internal" or
"super-connected".

On the whole, NFS4 is "good enough" - but SMB is still
easier to work where there are lots of Winders boxes
(which seems the typical scenario these days).

On 19/11/2022 04:28, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> "ifconfig" alone gives you a list
>   of your devices and all the relevant numbers, no
>   bullshit. 95% of the time that's all I ever need.

Amen.

If I want to know if I have any milk left in the fridge, I open the door
and look. I don't need an app that lists every item including those
which are not there any more with sell by dates on a smart phone

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

On 19/11/2022 04:37, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> Oh yea, I'm boycotting OpenSUSE *because* it took away
> a number of the good, get-it-done, well-documented,
> utility pgms. I used to pimp it as a "Cadillac system",
> but I don't think I'll ever use it again.
PONTIAC

Poor old nword thinks it's a cadillac...

>
> I'm trending towards the Devuan side of the force,
> bright and good.

I'm sticking with Mint/ubuntu simply because it's better supported and I
haven't got time to cuck around with linux. I just want a desktop/server
platform that works .

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

On 19/11/2022 04:58, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> On the whole, NFS4 is "good enough" - but SMB is still
>   easier to work where there are lots of Winders boxes
>   (which seems the typical scenario these days).

Well yes. There are issues with SMB in terms of permissions.

NFS is better for an all *nix environment IMHO, and fox the security
elsewhere.

I used to run both for Mac/Windows access, but I haven't seen a mac or
windows on the network in years.

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

"26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noada.net> writes:
> On 11/16/22 3:54 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noada.net> writes:
>>> Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major defense
>>> contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking in "the middle" for
>>> hours/days trying to steal your stuff.
>> All sorts of organizations get hacked
>
> But in different WAYS.
>
> Nobody is going to go MiM on some low-level biz or local govt
> district. WAY too much work for WAY too little return.

The tools are productized and work just as well on small organizations
as large.

You should stop going on about MITM, it’s not the only threat. In the
case of NFS misconfiguration and poor authentication are the most likely
issues.

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 11/19/22 6:01 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 04:37, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> Oh yea, I'm boycotting OpenSUSE *because* it took away
>> a number of the good, get-it-done, well-documented,
>> utility pgms. I used to pimp it as a "Cadillac system",
>> but I don't think I'll ever use it again.

> PONTIAC
>
> Poor old nword thinks it's a cadillac...

Pontiac's were good ... loved the Firebird and Trans-Am :-)

But I still lust for a pre-war Packard ...

But my point is that I will shun those who abandon the
to-the-point functional Linux past. Hell, I have lots
of pgms/scripts that call, and parse, the output of
those "old" utilities to deliver useful reports. Ain't
gonna write 'em all over again.

>> I'm trending towards the Devuan side of the force,
>> bright and good.
>
> I'm sticking with Mint/ubuntu simply because it's better supported and I
> haven't got time to cuck around with linux. I just want a desktop/server
> platform that works .

Mint is still good, esp for personal PCs, - but Ubuntu ... WAY
too many "Ubuntisms" and shameless junkware these days. Every
install I spend an hour REMOVING that crap. So, I'm migrating
all my USvr boxes to vanilla Debian, maybe even Devuan.
Screw me, screw YOU.

Like you, I just want something that WORKS WELL, AS EXPECTED,
AS WELL-DOCUMENTED. A solid no-BS foundation.

Some distros seem to be chasing Winders - look & feel and
a lot of OTHER BS. If I wanted Winders I'd be using Winders.

Did look at a few BSDs, but it's surprising what you CAN'T
do with them. In some respects they're ten or twenty years
behind the curve - and I'm talking CORE stuff like full SMB4
support/utility and such. They have their niches ... but it's
a "different direction" just as weird as that OpenSUSE/Ubuntu
are following. I want consistent UTILITY far more than "vision"
or ideology. I make stuff intended to work for a decade or
more and you DON'T fuck that up.

On 11/19/22 6:04 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 04:58, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> On the whole, NFS4 is "good enough" - but SMB is still
>>    easier to work where there are lots of Winders boxes
>>    (which seems the typical scenario these days).
>
> Well yes. There are issues with SMB  in terms of permissions.

Nothing's "perfect" ... gotta go with what YOU need most.

But, for interoperability, SMB is the easiest.

> NFS is better for an all *nix environment IMHO, and fox the security
> elsewhere.

Generally agreed.

> I used to run both for Mac/Windows access, but I haven't seen a mac or
> windows on the network in years.

How wonderful - wish I could say the same :-)

I have huge problems talking bosses out of using Winders
for EVERYTHING (but they still want reliability/security/
economy and all that other stuff for servers that you
really can't GET with Winders) .....

WHY so much Winders ... most typical justification is
"Everybody else uses it - we don't want to be different !"
Pure Dilbert-verse .... and it's getting worse.

There's also the Apple-verse ... but that's an elitist
restrictive expensive system too. OS-X is just as big
a pain to deal with as Winders. The UNIX is buried
TOO DEEP now to be a positive.

On 11/19/22 8:16 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noada.net> writes:
>> On 11/16/22 3:54 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noada.net> writes:
>>>> Unless you're a big bank or the CIA or maybe a major defense
>>>> contractor ... no ... nobody is gonna be lurking in "the middle" for
>>>> hours/days trying to steal your stuff.
>>> All sorts of organizations get hacked
>>
>> But in different WAYS.
>>
>> Nobody is going to go MiM on some low-level biz or local govt
>> district. WAY too much work for WAY too little return.
>
> The tools are productized and work just as well on small organizations
> as large.

Yep - but IT'S NOT *WORTH* THE TIME ...

There are better ways of victimizing the Little Guys.

> You should stop going on about MITM, it’s not the only threat. In the
> case of NFS misconfiguration and poor authentication are the most likely
> issues.

I was saying that MiM is a minor issue for almost everyone.
It's a theoretical weakness that we really just don't see
much in the real world.

NFS and SMB can both be poorly configured.

The biggest problem I see frequently is where servers
meet the internet. Unlimited high-speed login tries
are the worst. Hacks can just BLAST systems until they
find weak points.

Yea, you can set SSH to reject too many failed logins,
slow down attackers, but these days we see distributed
attacks where thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands,
of seemingly-legit addresses get used to try and blast
past security measures. "Sophistication" is increasingly
rare - it's brute force now.

2FA is a slight help (though some are circumventing it)
but users HATE it and sending texts and such aren't really
useful for orgs where people/devices may shift frequently.
For fun, check the GoDaddy procedure for if the 2FA device
is lost/wiped/whatever ... it's ridiculous. They'll be
wanting sperm samples next .......

This is A PROBLEM and I'm not seeing any good SOLUTIONS.
There may not BE any. IMHO, distributed attacks may be
the end of e-existence as we've known it, maybe entirely.
The E-Infrastructure COULD exist because honesty prevailed,
but Now ...............

Oh well, pen and paper and snail mail still work ...

Got a mechanical typewriter ? I do ...

Got a hard-line ? I do ...

Got a P.O.Box ? I do ...

Do people at your bank KNOW YOUR FACE/HABITS ? Mine do ...

The weaknesses in the New Paradigm mean the Old Paradigm
has to make a come-back. MY guess ... 3-5 years ...

Slower, but safer, more civil.

Yea ... I'm a downer ... but .......

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:06:43 -0500, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>
> But I still lust for a pre-war Packard ...

Which war?

On 11/21/22 8:03 AM, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:06:43 -0500, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>>
>> But I still lust for a pre-war Packard ...
>
> Which war?

The one after the final one :-)

'38-'39 ... Super-8 or the (rare) v-12

I like the look and the craftsmanship with
Packard's was always a cut above.

On 11/19/22 5:58 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 04:28, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> "ifconfig" alone gives you a list
>>    of your devices and all the relevant numbers, no
>>    bullshit. 95% of the time that's all I ever need.
>
> Amen.
>
> If I want to know if I have any milk left in the fridge, I open the door
> and look. I don't need an app that lists every item including those
> which are not there any more with sell by dates  on a smart phone

Well, they have "smart fridges" that will spy
on everything you have in there and report it
to you (and probably a bunch of other people,
including the govt and all the health insurance
companies) ...

But yea ... simpler IS usually "better". The older
-ix utilities tell you exactly what you almost
always NEED to know without any BS or mile-long
list of params. You can really shorten yer pgms
too by running them and parsing the straightforward
data they return. Why rewrite sysutils when you
can just use them direct ?

And how much beer is in the fridge ? OPEN it
and LOOK .......

On 2022-11-22 03:59, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> On 11/19/22 5:58 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 19/11/2022 04:28, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>>> "ifconfig" alone gives you a list
>>>    of your devices and all the relevant numbers, no
>>>    bullshit. 95% of the time that's all I ever need.
>>
>> Amen.
>>
>> If I want to know if I have any milk left in the fridge, I open the
>> door and look. I don't need an app that lists every item including
>> those which are not there any more with sell by dates  on a smart phone
>
>   Well, they have "smart fridges" that will spy
>   on everything you have in there and report it
>   to you (and probably a bunch of other people,
>   including the govt and all the health insurance
>   companies) ...
>
>   But yea ... simpler IS usually "better". The older
>   -ix utilities tell you exactly what you almost
>   always NEED to know without any BS or mile-long
>   list of params. You can really shorten yer pgms
>   too by running them and parsing the straightforward
>   data they return. Why rewrite sysutils when you
>   can just use them direct ?
>
>   And how much beer is in the fridge ? OPEN it
>   and LOOK .......

Open and look costs money.

--
Cheers, Carlos.