To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
of writing system.

To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
of writing systems.

(They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until later) which
one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.

Le vendredi 6 mai 2022 à 17:18:23 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
> of writing system.
>
> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
> of writing systems.
>
> (They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until later) which
> one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.

The latter, as "writing system" can only be countable.

On 2022-05-06, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
> of writing system.
>
> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
> of writing systems.
>
> (They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until later) which
> one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.

I don't think it makes a lot of difference, although I'd probably go
for the second.

--
I never met a people who were better at not getting to the
point than the Brits. ---Rich Hall

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES

I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?

On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
<bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
>
>I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?

Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
Uncle.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:48:14 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
> <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> >> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
> >
> >I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?

> Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
> Uncle.
>
A rebus is also a kind of puzzle that uses pictures of objects to suggest
words.

bill

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 3:08:41 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:48:14 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
> > <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> > >> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> > >> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
> > >I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?
> > Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
> > Uncle.
>
> A rebus is also a kind of puzzle that uses pictures of objects to suggest
> words.

I suspect TC knows that, though I wouldn't be so sure about the
bowser. When I saw you'd entered the thread, I anticipated a bit
of useful style advice.

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 3:08:41 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:48:14 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> > On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
>> > <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> > >> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>> > >> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES

>> > >I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?
>> > Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
>> > Uncle.
>>
>> A rebus is also a kind of puzzle that uses pictures of objects to suggest
>> words.
>
>I suspect TC knows that, though I wouldn't be so sure about the
>bowser. When I saw you'd entered the thread, I anticipated a bit
>of useful style advice.

A rebus (puzzle) is a "something" but not a "someone".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Den 06-05-2022 kl. 17:18 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
> of writing system.
>
> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
> of writing systems.
>
> (They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until later) which
> one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.

The former. It is "types" there are five of.

/Anders, Denmark

"Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@gmail.com> writes:
>Den 06-05-2022 kl. 17:18 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
....
>>PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
>>of writing systems.
....
>It is "types" there are five of.

Depends on whether "writing system" is( taken to be)
countable or uncountable. Wikitionary says,

|writing system (plural writing systems)

. So, if the plural means it's countable, then it
would be "five types of writing systems".

Bebercito <bebercito@aol.com> writes:
>The latter, as "writing system" can only be countable.

I hereby acknowledge that you wrote first that countability
is what matters here!

On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:48:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
><bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>>> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
>>
>>I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?
>
>Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
>Uncle.

It strikes me as odd that Ian Rankin needs inspecting.

More to the point, it always struck me as odd that a fictional
character got the name "Rebus." Is it an actual name? Have you or
anyone else here ever seen that name for a real person?

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 3:23:10 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 3:08:41 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:48:14 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
> > > <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > > >> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
> > > >> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
> > > >I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?
> > > Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
> > > Uncle.
> >
> > A rebus is also a kind of puzzle that uses pictures of objects to suggest
> > words.
> I suspect TC knows that, though I wouldn't be so sure about the
> bowser.

Suffice it to say: that's the thing about New York. No one is "sure" of anyone.

On 07/05/22 05:47, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> Den 06-05-2022 kl. 17:18 skrev Peter T. Daniels:

>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful
>> to distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
>> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five
>> types of writing system.
>>
>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful
>> to distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
>> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five
>> types of writing systems.
>>
>> (They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until
>> later) which one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.
>
> The former. It is "types" there are five of.

That's the one I would have chosen. The second is poor English, but I'd
hesitate to label it definitely wrong.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Le 07/05/2022 à 03:44, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 07/05/22 05:47, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>> Den 06-05-2022 kl. 17:18 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
>>>
>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful
>>> to distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
>>> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five
>>> types of writing system.
>>>
>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful
>>> to distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
>>> PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five
>>> types of writing systems.
>>>
>>> (They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until
>>> later) which one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.
>>
>> The former. It is "types" there are five of.
>
> That's the one I would have chosen. The second is poor English, but I'd
> hesitate to label it definitely wrong.

I don't think there's any grammatical or logical reason to prefer one to
the other; it's a matter of idiom.

A useful technique is to change elements in the phrase under test.
Google Ngram Viewer tells me that "types of people" has always been much
commoner than "types of person", for instance; similarly for cars and
houses. On the other hand, until about 1987, "types of disease" was
commoner than "types of diseases". And "types of system" has a
respectable following, it seems, having been about a quarter as popular
as "types of systems" in 2019.

Le 07/05/2022 à 08:20, Hibou a écrit :
>
> I don't think there's any grammatical or logical reason to prefer one to
> the other; it's a matter of idiom.

On second thoughts, there may be a logical reason. One could think of
writing systems as distinct solutions to the problem, i.e. as plural, or
as a manifestation of system as method. In the latter case, the singular
might seem natural.

Disease is susceptible to the same dual interpretation - various
diseases, or their common result, dis-ease, sickness. ("Types of
sickness" is commoner than "types of sicknesses".)

> A useful technique is to change elements in the phrase under test.
> Google Ngram Viewer tells me that "types of people" has always been much
> commoner than "types of person", for instance; similarly for cars and
> houses. On the other hand, until about 1987, "types of disease" was
> commoner than "types of diseases". And "types of system" has a
> respectable following, it seems, having been about a quarter as popular
> as "types of systems" in 2019.

These results may be misleading, since I find GNV is picking up "types
of system" where 'system' is used as an adjective - "types of system
software". There remain plenty of examples of the noun - "Two basic
types of system are usually..." (Google Book Search).

On 5/6/2022 3:08 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> bruce bowser <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels
>>> wrote:
>>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be
>>>> careful to distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES

>>> I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it
>>> Remus?

>> Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
>> Uncle.

> A rebus is also a kind of puzzle that uses pictures of objects to
> suggest words.

"By means of things".

Fri, 6 May 2022 08:18:19 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:

>To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
>PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
>of writing system.
>
>To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES from
>PHONETICISM: two contrasts that predate, or “forerun,” the five types
>of writing systems.
>
>(They differ only in the last letter.) I won't tell you (until later) which
>one I wrote and which one a reader suggested.

I prefer systems.

On 2022-05-06, bruce bowser wrote:

> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
>
> I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?

Robulus & Rebus?

--
So you say I got a funny face
I ain't got no worries
And I don't know why
And I don't know why

On 2022-05-07 05:00, CDB wrote:
> On 5/6/2022 3:08 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> bruce bowser <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be
>>>>> careful to distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
>
>>>> I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it
>>>> Remus?
>
>>> Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's Uncle.
>
>> A rebus is also a kind of puzzle that uses pictures of objects to
>> suggest words.
>
> "By means of things".

https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/I-Love-Country-Music-by-lar3ry/6048843.NL9AC#&gid=1&pid=3

On 07-May-22 19:21, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-06, bruce bowser wrote:
>
>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>>> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
>>
>> I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?
>
> Robulus & Rebus?
>
>
On a coach trip, one may disembark and later Rebus.

--
Sam Plusnet

Den 06-05-2022 kl. 22:12 skrev Stefan Ram:
> Bebercito <bebercito@aol.com> writes:
>> [two contrasts that predate the five types of writing system(s)]
>> The latter, as "writing system" can only be countable.
>
> I hereby acknowledge that you wrote first that countability
> is what matters here!

You (both) have me confused here - how does countability enter into it?
All three of us are non-native speakers, and the (few) native speakers
who have ventured an opinion seem to disagree as well - but AFAICS
all without providing reasons.

I'm looking forward to PTD disclosing what he chose, why, and why
one might disagree.

/Anders, Denmark

In message <48ra7hh3aqs7n5vdmp1buaiigqqt6sr4vq@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
> <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

>>On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> To sum up, in dealing with these questions, we need to be careful to
>>> distinguish IDEOGRAMS from LOGOGRAMS; and REBUSES
>>
>>I think i've heard of someone with the name Rebus. Or was it Remus?

> Rebus is Ian Rankin's Inspector. Remus is Joel Chandler Harris's
> Uncle.

There are a few well known Remuses. One of the legendary founders of
Rome, of course. Uncle Remus and Remus Lupin are fictional characters
somewhat well known, and the name is not uncommon in Romania, though I
don't know any Romanians off the top of my head named Remus.

The first movie actress to play Dorthy Gale (Wizard of Oz) was name
Ramona Remus, IIRC.

I had never heard of either Ian Rankin or Inspector Rebus, but I am
looking to see if my library has them.

--
Why can't you be in a good mood? How hard is it to decide to be in a
good mood and be in a good mood once in a while?"

"Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@gmail.com> writes:
>Den 06-05-2022 kl. 22:12 skrev Stefan Ram:
>>Bebercito <bebercito@aol.com> writes:
>>>[two contrasts that predate the five types of writing system(s)]
>>>The latter, as "writing system" can only be countable.
>>I hereby acknowledge that you wrote first that countability
>>is what matters here!
>You (both) have me confused here - how does countability enter into it?

I am not a native speaker of English. That's true.

My intution told me that "five types of writing systems" was
correct, but my intuition is sometimes right and sometimes
wrong when it comes to English. I can not trust it in this
regard!

So I turned to the Web (the World-Wide Web). There was a
kind of a discussion I found where people said so. I.e.,
they said that one uses the plural when the noun is countable,
in such cases. For the case of "systems" this agreed with my
own feeling (from the previous paragraph), so I adopted that view.

I could have tried find more Web pages about this question
to provide stronger support for the statement or to refute
it, or to look this up in a usage or grammar book to hear an
even more authoritative opinion, but decided that this would
be too much effort in this case.

So I took my intuition, one other opinion from the Web,
and a certain degree of willingness to be wrong in public,
and started to write my follow-up.

Op 7/05/2022 om 18:45 schreef Stefan Ram:
> "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@gmail.com> writes:
>> Den 06-05-2022 kl. 22:12 skrev Stefan Ram:
>>> Bebercito <bebercito@aol.com> writes:
>>>> [two contrasts that predate the five types of writing system(s)]
>>>> The latter, as "writing system" can only be countable.
>>> I hereby acknowledge that you wrote first that countability
>>> is what matters here!
>> You (both) have me confused here - how does countability enter into it?
>
> I am not a native speaker of English. That's true.
>
> My intution told me that "five types of writing systems" was
> correct, but my intuition is sometimes right and sometimes
> wrong when it comes to English. I can not trust it in this
> regard!
>
> So I turned to the Web (the World-Wide Web). There was a
> kind of a discussion I found where people said so. I.e.,
> they said that one uses the plural when the noun is countable,
> in such cases. For the case of "systems" this agreed with my
> own feeling (from the previous paragraph), so I adopted that view.
>
> I could have tried find more Web pages about this question
> to provide stronger support for the statement or to refute
> it, or to look this up in a usage or grammar book to hear an
> even more authoritative opinion, but decided that this would
> be too much effort in this case.
>
> So I took my intuition, one other opinion from the Web,
> and a certain degree of willingness to be wrong in public,
> and started to write my follow-up.

What about one type of writing systems?

--
guido wugi