On Tue, 28 Mar 23 19:42:58 UTC, D. Ray <d@ray> wrote:

>I think

Did somebody give you the impression that anybody here cares what you think?

Just so you know, they were wrong.

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On 3/28/23 9:30 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:03:46 -0400
> typed in alt.survival the following:
>> On 3/28/23 10:28 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:25:01 -0400
>>> typed in alt.survival the following:
>>>> Joe has screwed the pooch, no question. But can anybody
>>>> really accomplish much without going full totalitarian ?
>>>> We'd have to get REALLY mean to stop the southern invasion.
>>>> Guns, bombs, fire, poison gas, cross-border attacks, dead
>>>> babies and bounties with cut-off ears ... that kind of mean.
>>>> That'd require a total shut-down of all media - even FOX.
>>>> Can't have that kind of shit documented or it'll come
>>>> back around.
>>>
>>> No need to attack Mexico. People are not "stupid" - if it is
>>> publicized how the first batch of deportees leave in just their
>>> clothes, many will decide it is time to take their stuff and go home.
>>
>> 'Consequences' seems to be low on the priority scale
>> for said 'immigrants'. They give all their money to
>> coyotes and proceed on thousand-mile treks under very
>> bad and unsafe conditions - often with little children
>> in tow. Most will *believe* that if they get over the
>> border everything will be OK somehow.
>
> And why should they not believe that? The Yanquis organizing the
> caravan have told them so, and because currently there are no
> consequences for violating US law. As long as one is part of the
> protected class, there are no consequences.

They ARE a big part of the problem - both for recruitment
and facilitation.

But even Trump couldn't deal with them.

They and all contributors would need to all be charged
with felonies and all their assets impounded - treat
'em like Russian oligarchs.

But if Trump couldn't make that real, who can ?

The USA has two problems here - one is the practical
end, the other is the *political* end. Unless both
can be locked down then, well, nothing useful happens.

We can SAY "Well, they only need to do this, this and
that !" but clearly we can't GET from here to there.
Political factions, courts, public opinion, lobbyists,
MSM ... they are all part of the non-solution.

"27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 00:13:32 -0400
typed in alt.survival the following:
>On 3/28/23 9:30 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:03:46 -0400
>> typed in alt.survival the following:
>>> On 3/28/23 10:28 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:25:01 -0400
>>>> typed in alt.survival the following:
>>>>> Joe has screwed the pooch, no question. But can anybody
>>>>> really accomplish much without going full totalitarian ?
>>>>> We'd have to get REALLY mean to stop the southern invasion.
>>>>> Guns, bombs, fire, poison gas, cross-border attacks, dead
>>>>> babies and bounties with cut-off ears ... that kind of mean.
>>>>> That'd require a total shut-down of all media - even FOX.
>>>>> Can't have that kind of shit documented or it'll come
>>>>> back around.
>>>>
>>>> No need to attack Mexico. People are not "stupid" - if it is
>>>> publicized how the first batch of deportees leave in just their
>>>> clothes, many will decide it is time to take their stuff and go home.
>>>
>>> 'Consequences' seems to be low on the priority scale
>>> for said 'immigrants'. They give all their money to
>>> coyotes and proceed on thousand-mile treks under very
>>> bad and unsafe conditions - often with little children
>>> in tow. Most will *believe* that if they get over the
>>> border everything will be OK somehow.
>>
>> And why should they not believe that? The Yanquis organizing the
>> caravan have told them so, and because currently there are no
>> consequences for violating US law. As long as one is part of the
>> protected class, there are no consequences.
>
> They ARE a big part of the problem - both for recruitment
> and facilitation.
>
> But even Trump couldn't deal with them.
>
> They and all contributors would need to all be charged
> with felonies and all their assets impounded - treat
> 'em like Russian oligarchs.
>
> But if Trump couldn't make that real, who can ?
>
> The USA has two problems here - one is the practical
> end, the other is the *political* end. Unless both
> can be locked down then, well, nothing useful happens.

Right now, the chance of the US invading .... El Paso are Slim and
Fat. And Slim just left town.

This administration has deliberately emptied out stockpiles,
reserves, skilled operators, prestige, and value. The US cannot wage
a war against a near-peer opponent for more than a week before we've
shot out the magazine, and there is no resupply available. Fuel,
missiles, shells, food, troops/sailors, ships or aircraft, what we
have is what we got, and even that is going to be cut back.
>
> We can SAY "Well, they only need to do this, this and
> that !" but clearly we can't GET from here to there.
> Political factions, courts, public opinion, lobbyists,
> MSM ... they are all part of the non-solution.

They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 3/30/23 9:36 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 00:13:32 -0400
> typed in alt.survival the following:
>> On 3/28/23 9:30 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:03:46 -0400
>>> typed in alt.survival the following:
>>>> On 3/28/23 10:28 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>>> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:25:01 -0400
>>>>> typed in alt.survival the following:
>>>>>> Joe has screwed the pooch, no question. But can anybody
>>>>>> really accomplish much without going full totalitarian ?
>>>>>> We'd have to get REALLY mean to stop the southern invasion.
>>>>>> Guns, bombs, fire, poison gas, cross-border attacks, dead
>>>>>> babies and bounties with cut-off ears ... that kind of mean.
>>>>>> That'd require a total shut-down of all media - even FOX.
>>>>>> Can't have that kind of shit documented or it'll come
>>>>>> back around.
>>>>>
>>>>> No need to attack Mexico. People are not "stupid" - if it is
>>>>> publicized how the first batch of deportees leave in just their
>>>>> clothes, many will decide it is time to take their stuff and go home.
>>>>
>>>> 'Consequences' seems to be low on the priority scale
>>>> for said 'immigrants'. They give all their money to
>>>> coyotes and proceed on thousand-mile treks under very
>>>> bad and unsafe conditions - often with little children
>>>> in tow. Most will *believe* that if they get over the
>>>> border everything will be OK somehow.
>>>
>>> And why should they not believe that? The Yanquis organizing the
>>> caravan have told them so, and because currently there are no
>>> consequences for violating US law. As long as one is part of the
>>> protected class, there are no consequences.
>>
>> They ARE a big part of the problem - both for recruitment
>> and facilitation.
>>
>> But even Trump couldn't deal with them.
>>
>> They and all contributors would need to all be charged
>> with felonies and all their assets impounded - treat
>> 'em like Russian oligarchs.
>>
>> But if Trump couldn't make that real, who can ?
>>
>> The USA has two problems here - one is the practical
>> end, the other is the *political* end. Unless both
>> can be locked down then, well, nothing useful happens.
>
> Right now, the chance of the US invading .... El Paso are Slim and
> Fat. And Slim just left town.
>
> This administration has deliberately emptied out stockpiles,
> reserves, skilled operators, prestige, and value. The US cannot wage
> a war against a near-peer opponent for more than a week before we've
> shot out the magazine, and there is no resupply available. Fuel,
> missiles, shells, food, troops/sailors, ships or aircraft, what we
> have is what we got, and even that is going to be cut back.

Sorry Vlad ... the USA has *mass quantities* or ordinance
stashed way, stuff even from the 50s. Think they threw
all that away ? Think again Vlad.

>> We can SAY "Well, they only need to do this, this and
>> that !" but clearly we can't GET from here to there.
>> Political factions, courts, public opinion, lobbyists,
>> MSM ... they are all part of the non-solution.
>
> They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
> least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
> not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.

Out of the "Mexican" mess ? No - unless the USA goes
full military-totalitarian. All Hail Maximum Leader ?
Alas that'd be 100x worse than the 'Mexican' problem.

Much stronger deterrents HERE are probably the best
option - instant deportation, fines/criminal-charges
for anyone employing/housing/facilitating illegals.
Confiscation of assets for US citizens IN Mexico and
beyond assisting illegal immigration AND the same
treatment for anybody - esp Soros - financing said
activities. Be ruthless, no slack. Wouldn't fix things
immediately, there's a "momentum" to these things, but
over a year ....

SO - elect lots of Republicans and Trump (or DeSantis)
in '24. It's the only hope.

I see the Wokie pro-crime shit in NY has indicted Trump.
It'll ruin a lot of other cases against him and MAKES Trump's
case for political persecution. It'll get him elected.

Yea, yea, the PLAN is to drag it all out beyond the
election, causing "uncertainty" that they think will
keep people from voting for Trump. I don't think it
will work fer shit ... and if Trump is The Guy he needs
to have an equally competent VP - DeSantis or maybe
Haley - with good MAGA creds to counter "uncertainty".

Convict Trump and the VP immediately becomes POTUS and
immediately pardons him. Hell, technically, you can
even do an end-around swap after that - Trump as VP
for five minutes before the POTUS resigns, re-installing
Trump, and Trump picks the VP as VP again :-)

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 18:36:50 -0700, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

> This administration has deliberately emptied out stockpiles,
>reserves, skilled operators, prestige, and value. The US cannot wage
>a war against a near-peer opponent for more than a week before we've
>shot out the magazine, and there is no resupply available. Fuel,
>missiles, shells, food, troops/sailors, ships or aircraft, what we
>have is what we got, and even that is going to be cut back.

But the fact remains we have the largest stockpiles at the moment and the manufacturing
capacity and technology to ramp up faster than everybody else with better weapons.

Don't EVER discount the United States. :)

By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us. China WILL have
the world's largest economy and will probably have the world's biggest budget. China is
no incompetent Russia. Compare the Liaoning to the Admiral Kusnetzov. Sister ships built
in the same place to the same design yet the Chinese version leaves the Russian one a
laughingstock. The Chinese put more time and effort into perfecting it during sea trials
than they did finishing the build. They don't have a culture of lying to superiors like
Russia does.

Not only does the Liaoning shame the Admiral, the Chinese have since built three more, two
to their own design and demoted the Liaoning to be a training ship. Yeah, Beijing
technically has three carriers already and they've only been building them for what?
Twenty five years since they bought Varyag from Ukraine? Slow but sure they took their
time to get it right. They're struggling to train pilots but how long before they get
that sorted?

What this means is that alliances are more vital than ever. It will never be the US vs
China, it will be the US built alliance against the Chinese built alliance and we clearly
have the edge on that!

Swill
NP: America - Muskrat Love
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 18:36:50 -0700, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

> They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
>least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
>not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.

Shoot our way out of what mess? Immigration? No mess there. Need some intelligent
updating to the laws to ensure enough legals to meet our cheap labor force needs, that's
all.

Swill
NP: America - Tin Man
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.

We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 00:40:42 -0400, "22T.R732" <22TR732@noq24u.net> wrote:

>On 3/30/23 9:36 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Right now, the chance of the US invading .... El Paso are Slim and
>> Fat. And Slim just left town.
>>
>> This administration has deliberately emptied out stockpiles,
>> reserves, skilled operators, prestige, and value. The US cannot wage
>> a war against a near-peer opponent for more than a week before we've
>> shot out the magazine, and there is no resupply available. Fuel,
>> missiles, shells, food, troops/sailors, ships or aircraft, what we
>> have is what we got, and even that is going to be cut back.

> Sorry Vlad ... the USA has *mass quantities* or ordinance
> stashed way, stuff even from the 50s. Think they threw
> all that away ? Think again Vlad.

You're both right. Unlike Russia which keeps ammo until it dissolves into useless piles,
we "demilitarize" and update our weapons. That said, we STILL have bigger stockpiles
because we make more in the first place. We don't have thousands of tanks built in the
1950s. We scrapped them and built a fleet of Abrams.

Russia thinks they're safe because they have ten thousand broken tanks and billions of
expired rounds. They have a quantity over quality mind set which is why they use cannon
fodder. It's why they had millions of casualties in WWII.

But they're still losing. After one year, they've suffered four times as many casualties
as we did in ten years in Vietnam and their loss rate is increasing.

Vladimir and his military staff are just plain stupid (he should have been firing those
missiles at military targets, not power stations), corrupt (Shoigu owns an 18m mansion on
an 80K salary) and liars (Vlad's intel told him the population would rise up against
Zelensky, Ukraine would fold and his military told him they were a lot more powerful and
better equipped than they were).

>>> We can SAY "Well, they only need to do this, this and
>>> that !" but clearly we can't GET from here to there.
>>> Political factions, courts, public opinion, lobbyists,
>>> MSM ... they are all part of the non-solution.
>>
>> They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
>> least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
>> not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.
>
> Out of the "Mexican" mess ? No - unless the USA goes
> full military-totalitarian. All Hail Maximum Leader ?
> Alas that'd be 100x worse than the 'Mexican' problem.

Agreed. Better to have bilingual kids and grandkids than gulags and executions for
disrepecting the President. I'll never forget my favorite Yakov Smirnoff line: "At home,
no need to look for a party, in Russia, the Party comes looking for *you*!

> Much stronger deterrents HERE are probably the best
> option - instant deportation, fines/criminal-charges
> for anyone employing/housing/facilitating illegals.
> Confiscation of assets for US citizens IN Mexico and
> beyond assisting illegal immigration AND the same
> treatment for anybody - esp Soros - financing said
> activities. Be ruthless, no slack. Wouldn't fix things
> immediately, there's a "momentum" to these things, but
> over a year ....

Yah, yah, yah. There is only ONE deterrent that will work: Dry up the jobs. The only
way to do that is *heavy* fines and prison time for employers who break the law by hiring
illegals.

> SO - elect lots of Republicans and Trump (or DeSantis)
> in '24. It's the only hope.

Won't work. The Republicans will never resolve illegal immigration as long as they can
use it as a wedge issue to drive voters like you to the polls.

> I see the Wokie pro-crime shit in NY has indicted Trump.
> It'll ruin a lot of other cases against him and MAKES Trump's
> case for political persecution. It'll get him elected.

"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

> Yea, yea, the PLAN is to drag it all out beyond the
> election, causing "uncertainty" that they think will
> keep people from voting for Trump. I don't think it
> will work fer shit ... and if Trump is The Guy he needs
> to have an equally competent VP - DeSantis or maybe
> Haley - with good MAGA creds to counter "uncertainty".

If that's the plan, it could *easily* work. Trump has been a drag on the party since 2016
and it's just gotten worse over the years. The Dems gained two Senate seats and six House
seats in 2016. In 2018 they snagged two more Senate seats and a whopping 41 seat pickup
gave them the House. The Dems picked up the Oval Office in 2020 and lost 14 House seats
but gained three more Senate seats giving them control of both Houses.

The GOP took the House back in 2022 but who DIDN'T run that year?

Donald Trump.

Trump is bad for the GOP. That's why Murdoch has distanced his media outlets from him. He
knows the belief of Trump's fans that he can win again are just delusions and that even if
he won it would be bad for conservatives and the GOP.

GO TRUMP!!

> Convict Trump and the VP immediately becomes POTUS and
> immediately pardons him.

Republicans pulled that trick before and, if you'll recall, it cost them the White House
in 1976. Lots of voters wanted to see Nixon in the dock at a Watergate cover up trial.

>Hell, technically, you can
> even do an end-around swap after that - Trump as VP
> for five minutes before the POTUS resigns, re-installing
> Trump, and Trump picks the VP as VP again :-)

All of those dreams assume he'll win election.

:)

Not gonna happen, but nominating and running him will cost the GOP more seats in the
Congress.

GO TRUMP!

Swill
NP: George Strait - Heartland
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On 3/31/2023 5:58 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 18:36:50 -0700, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
>> least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
>> not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.
> Shoot our way out of what mess? Immigration? No mess there. Need some intelligent
> updating to the laws to ensure enough legals to meet our cheap labor force needs, that's
> all.
>
> Swill
>

Don't forget our gangja, cocaine, and fentanyl fix. LOL

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:46:08 -0400, Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>
>
>We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL

You must be young. WW II is still a living memory with a lot of Europeans. So is the
Cold War. Lots of folks still alive in eastern Europe remember what the Soviet yoke was
like. Why else are Poland and the Baltic States going to bat so hard for Ukraine? THEY
know what it's like being ruled by Moscow!

Germany knows they screwed up and they know who did it and why. When he was PM, Gerhard
Schroeder pushed Germany into Moscow's loving, gassy arms before Merkle was elected.
Schroeder closed the Nord Stream deal he'd been pushing in just the last few weeks of his
administration. Less than a month after he left office, Putin hired him to be the
director of Nord Stream, and that's just the start of the story.

"The Former Chancellor Who Became Putin’s Man in Germany

"Gerhard Schröder, who is paid almost $1 million a year by Russian-controlled energy
companies, has become a pariah. But he is also a symbol of Germany’s Russia policy."
<https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/world/europe/schroder-germany-russia-gas-ukraine-war-energy.html>

The Germans know now that Schroeder was a virtual double agent for Putin. He pushed hard
to get Germany dependent on Russian energy in a big way and profited handsomely by it as a
result.

No, they're not going to hold it against US. Besides, LNG is working fine. They'll have
dramatically increased capacity by next winter and Qatar has cut them a good deal on a LOT
of gas, with locked in prices. The US and Australia, the other two big three LNG
exporters are also European allies and no way are we going to see Europe starved of energy
- and the Eurofolks know it. Not just us, even CHINA has been buying Russian gas at dirt
cheap discounts and liquefying it for shipment to the EU and they have decided NOT to arm
Russia!

Germany has delivered more Leopards than promised and ahead of schedule. They have passed
legislation to increase their defense budget to accord with NATO requirements AND have
promised to raise their Ukraine aid from $3B to $15B.

Any thoughts you have of Russia coming out of this with anything but a broken nose and a
sore asshole are delusions.

In other words, everybody has Putin bent over the couch.

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:50:56 -0400, Kraut Schjuenfreude wrote:

>On 3/31/2023 5:58 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 18:36:50 -0700, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
>>> least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
>>> not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.
>> Shoot our way out of what mess? Immigration? No mess there. Need some intelligent
>> updating to the laws to ensure enough legals to meet our cheap labor force needs, that's
>> all.

>Don't forget our gangja, cocaine, and fentanyl fix. LOL

Land of the free, fwiw. ;)

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:50:56 -0400, Kraut Schjuenfreude wrote:
>Don't forget our gangja, cocaine, and fentanyl fix. LOL

Btw, 21 states, 3 territories and DC have fully legalized recreational weed and 10 more
have it approved for medical use.

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On 3/31/2023 3:43 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:46:08 -0400, Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>>
>> We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>> the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>> and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL
>
> You must be young. WW II is still a living memory with a lot of Europeans.

Do the Germans have a living memory of the war crimes the US had
committed against them? The US firebombed German civilians and killed
millions of Germans. LOL

American Firebombing of Dresden, Cologne, Hamburg, and Berlin
https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Firebombing+of+Dresden,+Cologne,+Hamburg,+and+Berlin&source=lnms&tbm=isch

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:32:26 -0400, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:

>
>
>On 3/31/2023 3:43 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:46:08 -0400, Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>>>
>>> We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>>> the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>>> and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL
>>
>> You must be young. WW II is still a living memory with a lot of Europeans.
>
>
>Do the Germans have a living memory of the war crimes the US had
>committed against them? The US firebombed German civilians and killed
>millions of Germans. LOL
>
>American Firebombing of Dresden, Cologne, Hamburg, and Berlin
<https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Firebombing+of+Dresden,+Cologne,+Hamburg,+and+Berlin&source=lnms&tbm=isch>

Yes, they do, fuckwit, just as they have a memory of having started that war and that it
was the US who tried to prevent Germany from being forced into reparations after WWI and
helped finance Germany's rebuilding after WWII. They also remember how American
investment in Germany's security not only kept them safe from further Russian aggression
but provided significant economic boosts to any region with an American base in it.

The day US forces smoked the Wagner group.

[The morning after the battle] "All combat vehicles had been destroyed with the exception
of a single battle tank and one armored personnel carrier. Of approximately 500 Russian
and Syrian attackers, at least 200 were killed or wounded. . . . There were no casualties
on the American side."
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viuUzGGac5M>

Russia is FUCKED.

Swill

PS Putin has lost this war. How many more will die before he realizes it?
--
"Russia has lost. They've lost strategitally, operationally and tactically and they are
paying an enormous price on the battlefield. But until Putin ends his war of choice the
international community will continue to support Ukraine with the equipment and
capabilities it needs to defend itself. Through this group, we are collectively
supporting Ukraine's ability to defend its territory, protect its citizens and liberate
their occupied areas." - Joint Chiefs Chairman, Gen. Mark Milley

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On 4/1/2023 6:43 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:32:26 -0400, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 3/31/2023 3:43 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:46:08 -0400, Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>>>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>>>> We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>>>> the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>>>> and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL
>>> You must be young. WW II is still a living memory with a lot of Europeans.
>>
>> Do the Germans have a living memory of the war crimes the US had
>> committed against them? The US firebombed German civilians and killed
>> millions of Germans. LOL
>>
>> American Firebombing of Dresden, Cologne, Hamburg, and Berlin
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Firebombing+of+Dresden,+Cologne,+Hamburg,+and+Berlin&source=lnms&tbm=isch
>>
>>
>
> Yes, they do

No, they don't. LOL

If the Nuremberg Laws were Applied_…

Noam Chomsky

https://chomsky.info/1990____-2/

If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American
president would have been hanged. By violation of the Nuremberg laws I
mean the same kind of crimes for which people were hanged in Nuremberg.
And Nuremberg means Nuremberg and Tokyo. So first of all you’ve got to
think back as to what people were hanged for at Nuremberg and Tokyo. And
once you think back, the question doesn’t even require a moment’s waste
of time. For example, one general at the Tokyo trials, which were the
worst, General Yamashita, was hanged on the grounds that troops in the
Philippines, which were technically under his command (though it was so
late in the war that he had no contact with them — it was the very end
of the war and there were some troops running around the Philippines who
he had no contact with), had carried out atrocities, so he was hanged.
Well, try that one out and you’ve already wiped out everybody.

But getting closer to the sort of core of the Nuremberg-Tokyo tribunals,
in Truman’s case at the Tokyo tribunal, there was one authentic,
independent Asian justice, an Indian, who was also the one person in the
court who had any background in international law [Radhabinod Pal], and
he dissented from the whole judgment, dissented from the whole thing. He
wrote a very interesting and important dissent, seven hundred pages —
you can find it in the Harvard Law Library, that’s where I found it,
maybe somewhere else, and it’s interesting reading. He goes through the
trial record and shows, I think pretty convincingly, it was pretty
farcical. He ends up by saying something like this: if there is any
crime in the Pacific theater that compares with the crimes of the Nazis,
for which they’re being hanged at Nuremberg, it was the dropping of the
two atom bombs. And he says nothing of that sort can be attributed to
the present accused. Well, that’s a plausible argument, I think, if you
look at the background. Truman proceeded to organize a major
counter-insurgency campaign in Greece which killed off about one hundred
and sixty thousand people, sixty thousand refugees, another sixty
thousand or so people tortured, political system dismantled, right-wing
regime. American corporations came in and took it over. I think that’s a
crime under Nuremberg.

Well, what about Eisenhower? You could argue over whether his overthrow
of the government of Guatemala was a crime. There was a CIA-backed army,
which went in under U.S. threats and bombing and so on to undermine that
capitalist democracy. I think that’s a crime. The invasion of Lebanon in
1958, I don’t know, you could argue. A lot of people were killed. The
overthrow of the government of Iran is another one — through a
CIA-backed coup. But Guatemala suffices for Eisenhower and there’s
plenty more.

Kennedy is easy. The invasion of Cuba was outright aggression.
Eisenhower planned it, incidentally, so he was involved in a conspiracy
to invade another country, which we can add to his score. After the
invasion of Cuba, Kennedy launched a huge terrorist campaign against
Cuba, which was very serious. No joke. Bombardment of industrial
installations with killing of plenty of people, bombing hotels, sinking
fishing boats, sabotage. Later, under Nixon, it even went as far as
poisoning livestock and so on. Big affair. And then came Vietnam; he
invaded Vietnam. He invaded South Vietnam in 1962. He sent the U.S. Air
Force to start bombing. Okay. We took care of Kennedy.

Johnson is trivial. The Indochina war alone, forget the invasion of the
Dominican Republic, was a major war crime.

Nixon the same. Nixon invaded Cambodia. The Nixon-Kissinger bombing of
Cambodia in the early ’70’s was not all that different from the Khmer
Rouge atrocities, in scale somewhat less, but not much less. Same was
true in Laos. I could go on case after case with them, that’s easy.

Ford was only there for a very short time so he didn’t have time for a
lot of crimes, but he managed one major one. He supported the Indonesian
invasion of East Timor, which was near genocidal. I mean, it makes
Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait look like a tea party. That was
supported decisively by the United States, both the diplmatic and the
necessary military support came primarily from the United States. This
was picked up under Carter.

Carter was the least violent of American presidents but he did things
which I think would certainly fall under Nuremberg provisions. As the
Indonesian atrocities increased to a level of really near-genocide, the
U.S. aid under Carter increased. It reached a peak in 1978 as the
atrocities peaked. So we took care of Carter, even forgetting other things.

Reagan. It’s not a question. I mean, the stuff in Central America alone
suffices. Support for the Israeli invasion of Lebanon also makes Saddam
Hussein look pretty mild in terms of casualties and destruction. That
suffices.

Bush. Well, need we talk on? In fact, in the Reagan period there’s even
an International Court of Justice decision on what they call the
“unlawful use of force” for which Reagan and Bush were condemned. I
mean, you could argue about some of these people, but I think you could
make a pretty strong case if you look at the Nuremberg decisions,
Nuremberg and Tokyo, and you ask what people were condemned for. I think
American presidents are well within the range.

Also, bear in mind, people ought to be pretty critical about the
Nuremberg principles. I don’t mean to suggest they’re some kind of model
of probity or anything. For one thing, they were ex post facto. These
were determined to be crimes by the victors after they had won. Now,
that already raises questions. In the case of the American presidents,
they weren’t ex post facto. Furthermore, you have to ask yourself what
was called a “war crime”? How did they decide what was a war crime at
Nuremberg and Tokyo? And the answer is pretty simple. and not very
pleasant. There was a criterion. Kind of like an operational criterion.
If the enemy had done it and couldn’t show that we had done it, then it
was a war crime. So like bombing of urban concentrations was not
considered a war crime because we had done more of it than the Germans
and the Japanese. So that wasn’t a war crime. You want to turn Tokyo
into rubble? So much rubble you can’t even drop an atom bomb there
because nobody will see anything if you do, which is the real reason
they didn’t bomb Tokyo. That’s not a war crime because we did it.
Bombing Dresden is not a war crime. We did it. German Admiral Gernetz —
when he was brought to trial (he was a submarine commander or something)
for sinking merchant vessels or whatever he did — he called as a defense
witness American Admiral Nimitz who testified that the U.S. had done
pretty much the same thing, so he was off, he didn’t get tried. And in
fact if you run through the whole record, it turns out a war crime is
any war crime that you can condemn them for but they can’t condemn us
for. Well, you know, that raises some questions.

I should say, actually, that this, interestingly, is said pretty openly
by the people involved and it’s regarded as a moral position. The chief
prosecutor at Nuremberg was Telford Taylor. You know, a decent man. He
wrote a book called Nuremberg and Vietnam. And in it he tries to
consider whether there are crimes in Vietnam that fall under the
Nuremberg principles. Predictably, he says not. But it’s interesting to
see how he spells out the Nuremberg principles.

They’re just the way I said. In fact, I’m taking it from him, but he
doesn’t regard that as a criticism. He says, well, that’s the way we did
it, and should have done it that way. There’s an article on this in The
Yale Law Journal [“Review Symposium: War Crimes, the Rule of Force in
International Affairs,” The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 80, #7, June 1971]
which is reprinted in a book [Chapter 3 of Chomsky’s For Reasons of
State (Pantheon, 1973)] if you’re interested.

"22T.R732" <22TR732@noq24u.net> on Fri, 31 Mar 2023 00:40:42 -0400
typed in alt.survival the following:
>On 3/30/23 9:36 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 00:13:32 -0400
>> typed in alt.survival the following:
>>> On 3/28/23 9:30 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>
>> Right now, the chance of the US invading .... El Paso are Slim and
>> Fat. And Slim just left town.
>>
>> This administration has deliberately emptied out stockpiles,
>> reserves, skilled operators, prestige, and value. The US cannot wage
>> a war against a near-peer opponent for more than a week before we've
>> shot out the magazine, and there is no resupply available. Fuel,
>> missiles, shells, food, troops/sailors, ships or aircraft, what we
>> have is what we got, and even that is going to be cut back.
>
>
> Sorry Vlad ... the USA has *mass quantities* or ordinance
> stashed way, stuff even from the 50s. Think they threw
> all that away ? Think again Vlad.

Oh goodie, we have stocks of Javelins, Stingers, Tomahawks, laser
and GPS guidance units, etc, etc, left over from WW2 which that are 75
years old. We can all go back to sleep, there is nothing to worry to
worry about.
Pay no attention to the recent improvements in explosives which
the PLA is deploying, and the US once again is not. Nope, we only
need the one factory still mixing up 1950s explosive fillers in 1940s
machinery. Yeah, sure, those compounds still works. Not as well as
the new stuff we discovered but did not develop. But good enough,
right?

>>> We can SAY "Well, they only need to do this, this and
>>> that !" but clearly we can't GET from here to there.
>>> Political factions, courts, public opinion, lobbyists,
>>> MSM ... they are all part of the non-solution.
>>
>> They are the solution - it is just not one which is optimal. At
>> least not for the Old Republic. I just hope I am wrong, and we are
>> not going to have to shoot our way out of this mess.
>
> Out of the "Mexican" mess ? No - unless the USA goes
> full military-totalitarian. All Hail Maximum Leader ?

We're already approaching that situation. Biden has been a sock
puppet since Obama chose him as an insurance policy. He is not
calling the shots, no matter what he's told. The Democrats are doing
all they can to make sure that they are the one's choosing Biden's
successor. Not merely at the convention, but at the "election".

> Alas that'd be 100x worse than the 'Mexican' problem.

I doubt this administration could find Mexico on a map, let alone
concoct a plan to invade it. The military is preparing to combat
toxic masculinity, white supremacy, and those who use the wrong
pronouns.
Nope, the Government is too busy hunting down soccer moms who are
terrorizing school boards by showing up at the meetings, or the
"insurrectionists" who were escorted in by Capital police. Or
ensuring that the Party never has to worry about another election.

That is the "mess" I hope we do not have to shoot our way out of.
>
> Much stronger deterrents HERE are probably the best
> option - instant deportation, fines/criminal-charges
> for anyone employing/housing/facilitating illegals.
> Confiscation of assets for US citizens IN Mexico and
> beyond assisting illegal immigration AND the same
> treatment for anybody - esp Soros - financing said
> activities. Be ruthless, no slack.

Bingo.
>Wouldn't fix things
> immediately, there's a "momentum" to these things, but
> over a year ....

And who is going to be enforcing it? The Democrat Party
Activists with Civil Service jobs?
>
> SO - elect lots of Republicans and Trump (or DeSantis)
> in '24. It's the only hope.
>
> I see the Wokie pro-crime shit in NY has indicted Trump.
> It'll ruin a lot of other cases against him and MAKES Trump's
> case for political persecution. It'll get him elected.
>
> Yea, yea, the PLAN is to drag it all out beyond the
> election, causing "uncertainty" that they think will
> keep people from voting for Trump. I don't think it
> will work fer shit ... and if Trump is The Guy he needs
> to have an equally competent VP - DeSantis or maybe
> Haley - with good MAGA creds to counter "uncertainty".

Do take note - the Government's Other Party apparachniks do not
share your concerns. Note also, who Trump backs for RNC Chair - the
same person who has exactly won the last five elections. But she's
nice, and part of the oh so polite "we're better than that" faction.
>
> Convict Trump and the VP immediately becomes POTUS and
> immediately pardons him. Hell, technically, you can
> even do an end-around swap after that - Trump as VP
> for five minutes before the POTUS resigns, re-installing
> Trump, and Trump picks the VP as VP again :-)

Just like the directions for making rabbit stew. "First, catch
your rabbit..."
First have to get a Republican elected.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> on Fri, 31 Mar 2023
06:46:08 -0400 typed in alt.survival the following:
>On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>
>
>We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL

LOL. Now just who is going to be producing that oil that "we" are
going to be supplying?

Congratulations though, it is a rare thing to live when an Empire
comes to an end.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 4/1/2023 11:19 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> on Fri, 31 Mar 2023
> 06:46:08 -0400 typed in alt.survival the following:
>> On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>>
>> We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>> the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>> and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL
> LOL. Now just who is going to be producing that oil that "we" are
> going to be supplying?

The Europeans will get oil from the US and other oil produces except
Russia. The oil prices in Europe will go up dramatically because of
higher transportation cost (instead of a pipeline from Russia). The oil
prices in the US will also go up because of higher demand for export to
Europe.

>
> Congratulations though, it is a rare thing to live when an Empire
> comes to an end.

We have already witnessed the ending of the once mighty British Empire.
The Brits exhausted itself trying to keep Germany down in WWI, and then
again in WWII. The British Empire lost most of its worldly colonial
possessions, and has now become a US lapdog ("a special relationship",
as Boris Johnson boasted). Pity.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Chen sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

On Sat, 01 Apr 2023 08:19:34 -0700, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> Sorry Vlad ... the USA has *mass quantities* or ordinance
>> stashed way, stuff even from the 50s. Think they threw
>> all that away ? Think again Vlad.
>
> Oh goodie, we have stocks of Javelins, Stingers, Tomahawks, laser
>and GPS guidance units, etc, etc, left over from WW2 which that are 75
>years old. We can all go back to sleep, there is nothing to worry to
>worry about.

"Russia's ammunition shortage in eastern Ukraine is reportedly so severe that its troops
there have reportedly been issued with completely unusable munitions, including shells
which are so rusty they have simply disintegrated."
<https://www.newsweek.com/russian-troops-soldiers-given-unusuable-shells-ammunition-shortage-ukraine-1783612>

I'm going to call propaganda alert on this. Lead, copper and brass don't rust. They may
be coated with it from sitting in steel boxes but that won't cause the ammo to
disintegrate.

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 07:46:18 -0400, max headroom <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote:
>Noam Chomsky

No reason to read further. *click*

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On Sat, 01 Apr 2023 08:19:34 -0700, pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Mike Pompeii <ShitfaceWarmonger@gmail.com> on Fri, 31 Mar 2023
>06:46:08 -0400 typed in alt.survival the following:
>>On 3/31/2023 5:55 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>> By the end of the century only China and the EU can seriously rival us.
>>
>>
>>We have fucked the EU big time. Without the cheap energy from Russia,
>>the Europeans will be under our thumb, totally dependent on us for oil
>>and gas. Consider them goners. Stupid Europeans. LOL
>
> LOL. Now just who is going to be producing that oil that "we" are
>going to be supplying?

They already have new deals with the ME for gas and oil.

> Congratulations though, it is a rare thing to live when an Empire
>comes to an end.

Won't be the first Russian Empire to collapse.

Swill
--
"Russia has lost. They've lost strategitally, operationally and tactically and they are
paying an enormous price on the battlefield. But until Putin ends his war of choice the
international community will continue to support Ukraine with the equipment and
capabilities it needs to defend itself. Through this group, we are collectively
supporting Ukraine's ability to defend its territory, protect its citizens and liberate
their occupied areas." - Joint Chiefs Chairman, Gen. Mark Milley

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine! Putin is a condom!

On 4/1/2023 5:39 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 07:46:18 -0400, max headroom <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote:
>> If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American
>> president would have been hanged. By violation of the Nuremberg laws I
>> mean the same kind of crimes for which people were hanged in Nuremberg.
>> And Nuremberg means Nuremberg and Tokyo. So first of all you’ve got to
>> think back as to what people were hanged for at Nuremberg and Tokyo. And
>> once you think back, the question doesn’t even require a moment’s waste
>> of time. For example, one general at the Tokyo trials, which were the
>> worst, General Yamashita, was hanged on the grounds that troops in the
>> Philippines, which were technically under his command (though it was so
>> late in the war that he had no contact with them — it was the very end
>> of the war and there were some troops running around the Philippines who
>> he had no contact with), had carried out atrocities, so he was hanged.
>> Well, try that one out and you’ve already wiped out everybody.
>>
>>
>>
>> But getting closer to the sort of core of the Nuremberg-Tokyo tribunals,
>> in Truman’s case at the Tokyo tribunal, there was one authentic,
>> independent Asian justice, an Indian, who was also the one person in the
>> court who had any background in international law [Radhabinod Pal], and
>> he dissented from the whole judgment, dissented from the whole thing. He
>> wrote a very interesting and important dissent, seven hundred pages —
>> you can find it in the Harvard Law Library, that’s where I found it,
>> maybe somewhere else, and it’s interesting reading. He goes through the
>> trial record and shows, I think pretty convincingly, it was pretty
>> farcical. He ends up by saying something like this: if there is any
>> crime in the Pacific theater that compares with the crimes of the Nazis,
>> for which they’re being hanged at Nuremberg, it was the dropping of the
>> two atom bombs. And he says nothing of that sort can be attributed to
>> the present accused. Well, that’s a plausible argument, I think, if you
>> look at the background. Truman proceeded to organize a major
>> counter-insurgency campaign in Greece which killed off about one hundred
>> and sixty thousand people, sixty thousand refugees, another sixty
>> thousand or so people tortured, political system dismantled, right-wing
>> regime. American corporations came in and took it over. I think that’s a
>> crime under Nuremberg.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, what about Eisenhower? You could argue over whether his overthrow
>> of the government of Guatemala was a crime. There was a CIA-backed army,
>> which went in under U.S. threats and bombing and so on to undermine that
>> capitalist democracy. I think that’s a crime. The invasion of Lebanon in
>> 1958, I don’t know, you could argue. A lot of people were killed. The
>> overthrow of the government of Iran is another one — through a
>> CIA-backed coup. But Guatemala suffices for Eisenhower and there’s
>> plenty more.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kennedy is easy. The invasion of Cuba was outright aggression.
>> Eisenhower planned it, incidentally, so he was involved in a conspiracy
>> to invade another country, which we can add to his score. After the
>> invasion of Cuba, Kennedy launched a huge terrorist campaign against
>> Cuba, which was very serious. No joke. Bombardment of industrial
>> installations with killing of plenty of people, bombing hotels, sinking
>> fishing boats, sabotage. Later, under Nixon, it even went as far as
>> poisoning livestock and so on. Big affair. And then came Vietnam; he
>> invaded Vietnam. He invaded South Vietnam in 1962. He sent the U.S. Air
>> Force to start bombing. Okay. We took care of Kennedy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnson is trivial. The Indochina war alone, forget the invasion of the
>> Dominican Republic, was a major war crime.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nixon the same. Nixon invaded Cambodia. The Nixon-Kissinger bombing of
>> Cambodia in the early ’70’s was not all that different from the Khmer
>> Rouge atrocities, in scale somewhat less, but not much less. Same was
>> true in Laos. I could go on case after case with them, that’s easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ford was only there for a very short time so he didn’t have time for a
>> lot of crimes, but he managed one major one. He supported the Indonesian
>> invasion of East Timor, which was near genocidal. I mean, it makes
>> Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait look like a tea party. That was
>> supported decisively by the United States, both the diplmatic and the
>> necessary military support came primarily from the United States. This
>> was picked up under Carter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carter was the least violent of American presidents but he did things
>> which I think would certainly fall under Nuremberg provisions. As the
>> Indonesian atrocities increased to a level of really near-genocide, the
>> U.S. aid under Carter increased. It reached a peak in 1978 as the
>> atrocities peaked. So we took care of Carter, even forgetting other things.
>>
>>
>>
>> Reagan. It’s not a question. I mean, the stuff in Central America alone
>> suffices. Support for the Israeli invasion of Lebanon also makes Saddam
>> Hussein look pretty mild in terms of casualties and destruction. That
>> suffices.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bush. Well, need we talk on? In fact, in the Reagan period there’s even
>> an International Court of Justice decision on what they call the
>> “unlawful use of force” for which Reagan and Bush were condemned. I
>> mean, you could argue about some of these people, but I think you could
>> make a pretty strong case if you look at the Nuremberg decisions,
>> Nuremberg and Tokyo, and you ask what people were condemned for. I think
>> American presidents are well within the range.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, bear in mind, people ought to be pretty critical about the
>> Nuremberg principles. I don’t mean to suggest they’re some kind of model
>> of probity or anything. For one thing, they were ex post facto. These
>> were determined to be crimes by the victors after they had won. Now,
>> that already raises questions. In the case of the American presidents,
>> they weren’t ex post facto. Furthermore, you have to ask yourself what
>> was called a “war crime”? How did they decide what was a war crime at
>> Nuremberg and Tokyo? And the answer is pretty simple. and not very
>> pleasant. There was a criterion. Kind of like an operational criterion.
>> If the enemy had done it and couldn’t show that we had done it, then it
>> was a war crime. So like bombing of urban concentrations was not
>> considered a war crime because we had done more of it than the Germans
>> and the Japanese. So that wasn’t a war crime. You want to turn Tokyo
>> into rubble? So much rubble you can’t even drop an atom bomb there
>> because nobody will see anything if you do, which is the real reason
>> they didn’t bomb Tokyo. That’s not a war crime because we did it.
>> Bombing Dresden is not a war crime. We did it. German Admiral Gernetz —
>> when he was brought to trial (he was a submarine commander or something)
>> for sinking merchant vessels or whatever he did — he called as a defense
>> witness American Admiral Nimitz who testified that the U.S. had done
>> pretty much the same thing, so he was off, he didn’t get tried. And in
>> fact if you run through the whole record, it turns out a war crime is
>> any war crime that you can condemn them for but they can’t condemn us
>> for. Well, you know, that raises some questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> I should say, actually, that this, interestingly, is said pretty openly
>> by the people involved and it’s regarded as a moral position. The chief
>> prosecutor at Nuremberg was Telford Taylor. You know, a decent man. He
>> wrote a book called Nuremberg and Vietnam. And in it he tries to
>> consider whether there are crimes in Vietnam that fall under the
>> Nuremberg principles. Predictably, he says not. But it’s interesting to
>> see how he spells out the Nuremberg principles.
>>
>>
>>
>> They’re just the way I said. In fact, I’m taking it from him, but he
>> doesn’t regard that as a criticism. He says, well, that’s the way we did
>> it, and should have done it that way. There’s an article on this in The
>> Yale Law Journal [“Review Symposium: War Crimes, the Rule of Force in
>> International Affairs,” The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 80, #7, June 1971]
>> which is reprinted in a book [Chapter 3 of Chomsky’s For Reasons of
>> State (Pantheon, 1973)] if you’re interested.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think one ought to raise many questions about the Nuremberg tribunal,
>> and especially the Tokyo tribunal. The Tokyo tribunal was in many ways
>> farcical. The people condemned at Tokyo had done things for which plenty
>> of people on the other side could be condemned. Furthermore, just as in
>> the case of Saddam Hussein, many of their worst atrocities the U.S.
>> didn’t care about. Like some of the worst atrocities of the Japanese
>> were in the late ’30s, but the U.S. didn’t especially care about that.
>> What the U.S. cared about was that Japan was moving to close off the
>> China market. That was no good. But not the slaughter of a couple of
>> hundred thousand people or whatever they did in Nanking. That’s not a
>> big deal.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://chomsky.info/1990____-2/
>>
> Holy shit!!! We are real arseholes. LOL

On 4/1/2023 2:53 PM, max headroom wrote:

>> Holy shit!!! "max headroom" is a real forging arsehole. LOL
>
> Yes. LOL

Eat shit, neverbeen.

How about a little face-to-face meetup? See what you can forge then.

On 4/1/2023 6:07 PM, Kẻ giả mạo là sâu bọ wrote:
> On 4/1/2023 5:53 PM, max headroom wrote:
>> On 4/1/2023 5:39 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 07:46:18 -0400, max headroom
>>> <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>> If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American
>>>> president would have been hanged. By violation of the Nuremberg laws I
>>>> mean the same kind of crimes for which people were hanged in
>>>> Nuremberg.
>>>> And Nuremberg means Nuremberg and Tokyo. So first of all you’ve got to
>>>> think back as to what people were hanged for at Nuremberg and
>>>> Tokyo. And
>>>> once you think back, the question doesn’t even require a moment’s
>>>> waste
>>>> of time. For example, one general at the Tokyo trials, which were the
>>>> worst, General Yamashita, was hanged on the grounds that troops in the
>>>> Philippines, which were technically under his command (though it
>>>> was so
>>>> late in the war that he had no contact with them — it was the very end
>>>> of the war and there were some troops running around the
>>>> Philippines who
>>>> he had no contact with), had carried out atrocities, so he was hanged.
>>>> Well, try that one out and you’ve already wiped out everybody.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But getting closer to the sort of core of the Nuremberg-Tokyo
>>>> tribunals,
>>>> in Truman’s case at the Tokyo tribunal, there was one authentic,
>>>> independent Asian justice, an Indian, who was also the one person
>>>> in the
>>>> court who had any background in international law [Radhabinod Pal],
>>>> and
>>>> he dissented from the whole judgment, dissented from the whole
>>>> thing. He
>>>> wrote a very interesting and important dissent, seven hundred pages —
>>>> you can find it in the Harvard Law Library, that’s where I found it,
>>>> maybe somewhere else, and it’s interesting reading. He goes through
>>>> the
>>>> trial record and shows, I think pretty convincingly, it was pretty
>>>> farcical. He ends up by saying something like this: if there is any
>>>> crime in the Pacific theater that compares with the crimes of the
>>>> Nazis,
>>>> for which they’re being hanged at Nuremberg, it was the dropping of
>>>> the
>>>> two atom bombs. And he says nothing of that sort can be attributed to
>>>> the present accused. Well, that’s a plausible argument, I think, if
>>>> you
>>>> look at the background. Truman proceeded to organize a major
>>>> counter-insurgency campaign in Greece which killed off about one
>>>> hundred
>>>> and sixty thousand people, sixty thousand refugees, another sixty
>>>> thousand or so people tortured, political system dismantled,
>>>> right-wing
>>>> regime. American corporations came in and took it over. I think
>>>> that’s a
>>>> crime under Nuremberg.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, what about Eisenhower? You could argue over whether his
>>>> overthrow
>>>> of the government of Guatemala was a crime. There was a CIA-backed
>>>> army,
>>>> which went in under U.S. threats and bombing and so on to undermine
>>>> that
>>>> capitalist democracy. I think that’s a crime. The invasion of
>>>> Lebanon in
>>>> 1958, I don’t know, you could argue. A lot of people were killed. The
>>>> overthrow of the government of Iran is another one — through a
>>>> CIA-backed coup. But Guatemala suffices for Eisenhower and there’s
>>>> plenty more.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kennedy is easy. The invasion of Cuba was outright aggression.
>>>> Eisenhower planned it, incidentally, so he was involved in a
>>>> conspiracy
>>>> to invade another country, which we can add to his score. After the
>>>> invasion of Cuba, Kennedy launched a huge terrorist campaign against
>>>> Cuba, which was very serious. No joke. Bombardment of industrial
>>>> installations with killing of plenty of people, bombing hotels,
>>>> sinking
>>>> fishing boats, sabotage. Later, under Nixon, it even went as far as
>>>> poisoning livestock and so on. Big affair. And then came Vietnam; he
>>>> invaded Vietnam. He invaded South Vietnam in 1962. He sent the U.S.
>>>> Air
>>>> Force to start bombing. Okay. We took care of Kennedy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Johnson is trivial. The Indochina war alone, forget the invasion of
>>>> the
>>>> Dominican Republic, was a major war crime.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nixon the same. Nixon invaded Cambodia. The Nixon-Kissinger bombing of
>>>> Cambodia in the early ’70’s was not all that different from the Khmer
>>>> Rouge atrocities, in scale somewhat less, but not much less. Same was
>>>> true in Laos. I could go on case after case with them, that’s easy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ford was only there for a very short time so he didn’t have time for a
>>>> lot of crimes, but he managed one major one. He supported the
>>>> Indonesian
>>>> invasion of East Timor, which was near genocidal. I mean, it makes
>>>> Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait look like a tea party. That was
>>>> supported decisively by the United States, both the diplmatic and the
>>>> necessary military support came primarily from the United States. This
>>>> was picked up under Carter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Carter was the least violent of American presidents but he did things
>>>> which I think would certainly fall under Nuremberg provisions. As the
>>>> Indonesian atrocities increased to a level of really near-genocide,
>>>> the
>>>> U.S. aid under Carter increased. It reached a peak in 1978 as the
>>>> atrocities peaked. So we took care of Carter, even forgetting other
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reagan. It’s not a question. I mean, the stuff in Central America
>>>> alone
>>>> suffices. Support for the Israeli invasion of Lebanon also makes
>>>> Saddam
>>>> Hussein look pretty mild in terms of casualties and destruction. That
>>>> suffices.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bush. Well, need we talk on? In fact, in the Reagan period there’s
>>>> even
>>>> an International Court of Justice decision on what they call the
>>>> “unlawful use of force” for which Reagan and Bush were condemned. I
>>>> mean, you could argue about some of these people, but I think you
>>>> could
>>>> make a pretty strong case if you look at the Nuremberg decisions,
>>>> Nuremberg and Tokyo, and you ask what people were condemned for. I
>>>> think
>>>> American presidents are well within the range.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, bear in mind, people ought to be pretty critical about the
>>>> Nuremberg principles. I don’t mean to suggest they’re some kind of
>>>> model
>>>> of probity or anything. For one thing, they were ex post facto. These
>>>> were determined to be crimes by the victors after they had won. Now,
>>>> that already raises questions. In the case of the American presidents,
>>>> they weren’t ex post facto. Furthermore, you have to ask yourself what
>>>> was called a “war crime”? How did they decide what was a war crime at
>>>> Nuremberg and Tokyo? And the answer is pretty simple. and not very
>>>> pleasant. There was a criterion. Kind of like an operational
>>>> criterion.
>>>> If the enemy had done it and couldn’t show that we had done it,
>>>> then it
>>>> was a war crime. So like bombing of urban concentrations was not
>>>> considered a war crime because we had done more of it than the Germans
>>>> and the Japanese. So that wasn’t a war crime. You want to turn Tokyo
>>>> into rubble? So much rubble you can’t even drop an atom bomb there
>>>> because nobody will see anything if you do, which is the real reason
>>>> they didn’t bomb Tokyo. That’s not a war crime because we did it.
>>>> Bombing Dresden is not a war crime. We did it. German Admiral
>>>> Gernetz —
>>>> when he was brought to trial (he was a submarine commander or
>>>> something)
>>>> for sinking merchant vessels or whatever he did — he called as a
>>>> defense
>>>> witness American Admiral Nimitz who testified that the U.S. had done
>>>> pretty much the same thing, so he was off, he didn’t get tried. And in
>>>> fact if you run through the whole record, it turns out a war crime is
>>>> any war crime that you can condemn them for but they can’t condemn us
>>>> for. Well, you know, that raises some questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I should say, actually, that this, interestingly, is said pretty
>>>> openly
>>>> by the people involved and it’s regarded as a moral position. The
>>>> chief
>>>> prosecutor at Nuremberg was Telford Taylor. You know, a decent man. He
>>>> wrote a book called Nuremberg and Vietnam. And in it he tries to
>>>> consider whether there are crimes in Vietnam that fall under the
>>>> Nuremberg principles. Predictably, he says not. But it’s
>>>> interesting to
>>>> see how he spells out the Nuremberg principles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They’re just the way I said. In fact, I’m taking it from him, but he
>>>> doesn’t regard that as a criticism. He says, well, that’s the way
>>>> we did
>>>> it, and should have done it that way. There’s an article on this in
>>>> The
>>>> Yale Law Journal [“Review Symposium: War Crimes, the Rule of Force in
>>>> International Affairs,” The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 80, #7, June 1971]
>>>> which is reprinted in a book [Chapter 3 of Chomsky’s For Reasons of
>>>> State (Pantheon, 1973)] if you’re interested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think one ought to raise many questions about the Nuremberg
>>>> tribunal,
>>>> and especially the Tokyo tribunal. The Tokyo tribunal was in many ways
>>>> farcical. The people condemned at Tokyo had done things for which
>>>> plenty
>>>> of people on the other side could be condemned. Furthermore, just
>>>> as in
>>>> the case of Saddam Hussein, many of their worst atrocities the U.S.
>>>> didn’t care about. Like some of the worst atrocities of the Japanese
>>>> were in the late ’30s, but the U.S. didn’t especially care about that.
>>>> What the U.S. cared about was that Japan was moving to close off the
>>>> China market. That was no good. But not the slaughter of a couple of
>>>> hundred thousand people or whatever they did in Nanking. That’s not a
>>>> big deal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://chomsky.info/1990____-2/
>>>>
>>> Holy shit!!! We are real arseholes. LOL
>>
>> Yes. LOL
>>
>
> How about I give you a little blow job?
>

On 4/1/2023 3:22 PM, max headroom wrote:

>> How about a little face-to-face meetup? See what you can forge then.
>>
>
> No. I am a mentally ill coward. I must go eat some shit now.

You need to be terminated with extreme prejudice.