On 2023-11-14, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

> Well, I guess that Cleveland showed them. Me, I don't buy into bottled
> water hype. I might buy a bottle if I'm out and about feeling thirsty,
> but I always drink the tap at home. Run the water for a couple of
> minutes in the morning, because of the 120 some year old lead water
> service line.

When I was a kid, my parents bought those huge glass jugs of water that
you see in office cafeterias. They probably went through a bottle a
month. Our town water was terrible, but I never bought into the jug
water paradigm.
I have never bought bottled water in my life and probably have had
less than six handed to me. One was during a recent treadmill test, and
I mentioned my apathy to the doctor while drinking the water.
I do pick up many, many empty water bottles off my lawn each year.
If you think you're climate aware, but drink water bottled in plastic,
you aren't.

On 11/15/2023 5:07 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2023-11-14, jmcquown<j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2023 11:25 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I guess that Cleveland showed them. Me, I don't buy into bottled
>>> water hype. I might buy a bottle if I'm out and about feeling thirsty,
>>> but I always drink the tap at home. Run the water for a couple of
>>> minutes in the morning, because of the 120 some year old lead water
>>> service line.
>>
>> Yeah, because lead is really good for you. Why not simply invest in a
>> filtered water pitcher?

I just flush the tap for a few minutes. Whatever water was sitting in
the lead pipe has been flushed out, then.

> If the pH of his water is high enough, the lead pipes are not much
> of a problem.
>
> His water utility should make testing results available. Mine does.

They do that annually. That said, they aren't testing the water
straight out of my kitchen tap. I don't know about the city main, but
the service line to my house is original lead.

On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>
> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>
> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
> has a lot of work to do.

People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.

On 11/14/2023 2:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> I never saw the point of bottled water either, other than having a
> reasonable assurance of clean water when travelling. I would not be too
> fast to blame the ships in the harbour for the bottles. They were more
> likely discarded by the locals. People throw those things everywhere.
> They end up in ditches and streams and eventually end up in the ocean.

I hear that a lot of ocean plastic is lost at sea from barges.
Pittsburgh, for example, barges trash and recyclables overseas to
process cheaper in another country. Some is lost along the way.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:18:35 -0500, Michael Trew
<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

>On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
>> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
>> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
>> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
>> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>>
>> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
>> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
>> has a lot of work to do.
>
>People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
>the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.

Somebody here (Gary?) said that if you let chlorinated water stand
overnight, the chlorine smell and flavour disappear.

On 11/15/2023 11:27 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:18:35 -0500, Michael Trew
> <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
>>> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
>>> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
>>> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
>>> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>>>
>>> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
>>> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
>>> has a lot of work to do.
>>
>> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
>> the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.
>
> Somebody here (Gary?) said that if you let chlorinated water stand
> overnight, the chlorine smell and flavour disappear.

We always kept a bottle in the fridge for that reason.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 23:52:11 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 11/15/2023 11:27 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:18:35 -0500, Michael Trew
>> <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
>>>> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
>>>> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
>>>> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
>>>> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>>>>
>>>> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
>>>> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
>>>> has a lot of work to do.
>>>
>>> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
>>> the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.
>>
>> Somebody here (Gary?) said that if you let chlorinated water stand
>> overnight, the chlorine smell and flavour disappear.
>
>We always kept a bottle in the fridge for that reason.

We already do that to chill the water, but this would be another
reason.

On 2023-11-16, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
> On 11/15/2023 5:07 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On 2023-11-14, jmcquown<j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/14/2023 11:25 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, I guess that Cleveland showed them. Me, I don't buy into bottled
>>>> water hype. I might buy a bottle if I'm out and about feeling thirsty,
>>>> but I always drink the tap at home. Run the water for a couple of
>>>> minutes in the morning, because of the 120 some year old lead water
>>>> service line.
>>>
>>> Yeah, because lead is really good for you. Why not simply invest in a
>>> filtered water pitcher?
>
> I just flush the tap for a few minutes. Whatever water was sitting in
> the lead pipe has been flushed out, then.
>
>> If the pH of his water is high enough, the lead pipes are not much
>> of a problem.
>>
>> His water utility should make testing results available. Mine does.
>
> They do that annually. That said, they aren't testing the water
> straight out of my kitchen tap. I don't know about the city main, but
> the service line to my house is original lead.

Your house is unlikely to be the only one with lead pipes. They
should be sampling from more than one location in your town, including
one with lead pipes.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 2023-11-16, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
> On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
>> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
>> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
>> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
>> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>>
>> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
>> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
>> has a lot of work to do.
>
> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
> the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.

I've had municipal water all my life. Chlorine is what water is
supposed to smell like.

My husband claims that when he first moved to Cincinnati, you could
smell carbon tetrachloride in the water. That would have been in
1970.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:43:30 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
<hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 2023-11-16, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
>>> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
>>> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
>>> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
>>> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>>>
>>> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
>>> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
>>> has a lot of work to do.
>>
>> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
>> the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.
>
>I've had municipal water all my life. Chlorine is what water is
>supposed to smell like.

Poor woman.

Bruce wrote:
....
> We already do that to chill the water, but this would be another
> reason.

if the bottle is closed you're not accomplishing much.

songbird

Michael Trew wrote:
> On 11/14/2023 2:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> I never saw the point of bottled water either, other than having a
>> reasonable assurance of clean water when travelling. I would not be too
>> fast to blame the ships in the harbour for the bottles. They were more
>> likely discarded by the locals. People throw those things everywhere.
>> They end up in ditches and streams and eventually end up in the ocean.
>
> I hear that a lot of ocean plastic is lost at sea from barges.
> Pittsburgh, for example, barges trash and recyclables overseas to
> process cheaper in another country. Some is lost along the way.

about half of what is currently being recovered (by Ocean
Cleanup) from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is parts of
fishing nets. if you want to see what the dump from their
collection nets they have vids on youtube/etc.

songbird

On 2023-11-15 11:52 p.m., Ed P wrote:
> On 11/15/2023 11:27 PM, Bruce wrote:

>>> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
>>> the smell or taste.  Maybe I'm just used to it.
>>
>> Somebody here (Gary?) said that if you let chlorinated water stand
>> overnight, the chlorine smell and flavour disappear.
>
> We always kept a bottle in the fridge for that reason.

It's true. The chlorine is released into the air. Anyone who has raised
tropical fish knows this. The chlorine in tap water will kill the little
critters. You have to fill pails of water and let them sit overnight to
get rid of the chlorine.

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 07:58:16 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>...
>> We already do that to chill the water, but this would be another
>> reason.
>
> if the bottle is closed you're not accomplishing much.

Open doesn't sound great either. I'll have to test.

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:51:23 -0500, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>On 2023-11-15 11:52 p.m., Ed P wrote:
>> On 11/15/2023 11:27 PM, Bruce wrote:
>
>>>> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
>>>> the smell or taste.  Maybe I'm just used to it.
>>>
>>> Somebody here (Gary?) said that if you let chlorinated water stand
>>> overnight, the chlorine smell and flavour disappear.
>>
>> We always kept a bottle in the fridge for that reason.
>
>
>It's true. The chlorine is released into the air. Anyone who has raised
>tropical fish knows this. The chlorine in tap water will kill the little
>critters. You have to fill pails of water and let them sit overnight to
>get rid of the chlorine.

Pails? Are buckets ok too?

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 6:03:37 AM UTC-10, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 4:43:36 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On 2023-11-16, Michael Trew <michae...@att.net> wrote:
> > > On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
> > >>
> > >> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
> > >> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
> > >> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that you
> > >> can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your tap
> > >> water by handling the filter incorrectly.
> > >>
> > >> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
> > >> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when it
> > >> has a lot of work to do.
> > >
> > > People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't notice
> > > the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.
> > I've had municipal water all my life. Chlorine is what water is
> > supposed to smell like.
> >
> > My husband claims that when he first moved to Cincinnati, you could
> > smell carbon tetrachloride in the water. That would have been in
> > 1970.
> The Cuyahoga River in Ohio once caught fire.

Lake Washington in Washington state used to be one of the most polluted lakes in America in the 60's. When we were there in the late 80's, it was a water wonderland. Beats me how they were able to clean it up so fast. Time heals all wounds - sometimes it takes hardly any time at all. All that's needed is the will - some Superfund money helps a lot too, I suppose.

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:

> On 2023-11-14, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Well, I guess that Cleveland showed them. Me, I don't buy into
> > bottled water hype. I might buy a bottle if I'm out and about
> > feeling thirsty, but I always drink the tap at home. Run the water
> > for a couple of minutes in the morning, because of the 120 some
> > year old lead water service line.
>
>
> When I was a kid, my parents bought those huge glass jugs of water
> that you see in office cafeterias. They probably went through a
> bottle a month. Our town water was terrible, but I never bought into
> the jug water paradigm.
> I have never bought bottled water in my life and probably have had
> less than six handed to me. One was during a recent treadmill test,
> and I mentioned my apathy to the doctor while drinking the water.
> I do pick up many, many empty water bottles off my lawn each year.
> If you think you're climate aware, but drink water bottled in plastic,
> you aren't.

As a general rule we don't but we always have 1-2 for people working on
the house in hot weather. If they use one, we wash it all out with hot
soapy water then it gets filled with tap water and adds to our storm
supplies.

We empty and reload the storage bottles once a year. They are kept in
this nifty wine bottle heavy duty cardboard box with a lid. It has
sturdy separators and holds 24 bottles.

Michael Trew wrote:

> On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >
> > It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
> > Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
> > of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that
> > you can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your
> > tap water by handling the filter incorrectly.
> >
> > But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
> > badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when
> > it has a lot of work to do.
>
> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't
> notice the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.

Just fill a pitcher and put it in the fridge. Chlorine evaporates
pretty fast if left open.

cshenk wrote:
> Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> On 11/14/2023 1:28 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> It also depends on what comes out of your tap. I saw an item about
>>> Dutch tap water and water filters. A scientist said that the quality
>>> of the tap water is excellent and that the minute improvement that
>>> you can achieve is dwarfed by the risk that you'll contaminate your
>>> tap water by handling the filter incorrectly.
>>>
>>> But the tap water of the place we'll move to in half a year, stinks
>>> badly of chlorine. And I read that you smell chlorine the most when
>>> it has a lot of work to do.
>>
>> People say that our tap water smells like chlorine, but I don't
>> notice the smell or taste. Maybe I'm just used to it.
>
> Just fill a pitcher and put it in the fridge. Chlorine evaporates
> pretty fast if left open.
>

If it is just plain chlorination, yes. Not if the water has
been treated with chloramines, which is a weaker sanitizing
agent, but much more stable and long lasting in water.

On 2023-11-16, Hank Rogers wrote:

> If it is just plain chlorination, yes
> Not if the water has been treated with
> chloramines, which is a weaker sanitizing
> agent, but much more stable and
> long lasting in water.

Hank, it's even worse! Just plain chlorine
with react with organic material to turn
it into chloramine. Especially in pools, which
might have urine(?) but anyways have urea
from our sweat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monochloramine

Bruce wrote:
....
> Pails? Are buckets ok too?

just remember that tropical fish may not be the same as
reef aquarium fish. while tap water may have chlorine in
it which may air out in time tap water may also have
copper in it which is toxic to many reef aquarium creatures
:(

songbird

On 2023-11-16, songbird wrote:

> reef aquarium fish. while tap water may have chlorine in
> it which may air out in time tap water may also have
> copper in it which is toxic to many reef aquarium creatures

Is copper due to house pipes, or is it environmental?

I guess you use RO or just buy distilled water.

Mike Duffy wrote:
> On 2023-11-16, Hank Rogers wrote:
>
>> If it is just plain chlorination, yes
>> Not if the water has been treated with
>> chloramines, which is a weaker sanitizing
>> agent, but much more stable and
>> long lasting in water.
>
> Hank, it's even worse! Just plain chlorine
> with react with organic material to turn
> it into chloramine. Especially in pools, which
> might have urine(?) but anyways have urea
> from our sweat.

Yes I know. I have a small pool.

And to make matters worse, the chloramines, chlorine, ph,
alkalinity, and stabilizer (cyanuric acid) are all quantum
entangled :)

Mike Duffy wrote:
> On 2023-11-16, songbird wrote:
>
>> reef aquarium fish. while tap water may have chlorine in
>> it which may air out in time tap water may also have
>> copper in it which is toxic to many reef aquarium creatures
>
> Is copper due to house pipes, or is it environmental?
>
> I guess you use RO or just buy distilled water.
>

Keeping a good aquarium is a hell of a job, either fresh or
saltwater. I've only dabbled in both, but learned a little.

I'll never do it again. It requires absolute dedication to
water chemistry as well as complete knowledge of the species in
your tanks. Things change daily, so you can't leave for a
couple days. Still, you'll encounter situations that stump you.

For one person, it can become a full time job.

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 6:07:24 PM UTC-6, Hank Rogers wrote:
> Mike Duffy wrote:
> > On 2023-11-16, songbird wrote:
> >
> >> reef aquarium fish. while tap water may have chlorine in
> >> it which may air out in time tap water may also have
> >> copper in it which is toxic to many reef aquarium creatures
> >
> > Is copper due to house pipes, or is it environmental?
> >
> > I guess you use RO or just buy distilled water.
> >
> Keeping a good aquarium is a hell of a job, either fresh or
> saltwater. I've only dabbled in both, but learned a little.
>
> I'll never do it again. It requires absolute dedication to
> water chemistry as well as complete knowledge of the species in
> your tanks. Things change daily, so you can't leave for a
> couple days. Still, you'll encounter situations that stump you.
>
> For one person, it can become a full time job.

Would getting an aquarium be a good "job" for Kuthe...???

--
GM