On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 04:18:45 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
(ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
>> choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
>> only on the outside.
>>
>Oh yeah, I love the pot stickers and just like chicken and dumpling
>makers, some of the Chinese dumpling makers are better than others.
>Some of the steamed ones are quite good.

Yes, pierogi, pot stickers, wontons. I read in Wikipedia that the
original, 17th century, English meaning of dumpling is just a cooked
ball of dough. I can see how that's less interesting.

On 2024-04-10, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>
>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>
>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>
>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>
>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>
>>
> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>
> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.

Perhaps the dumplings were too large to cook through. Also, whole
chicken parts? WTF?

Sure, I've made dumplings that didn't cook through, especially when I
first started (since I'm a self-taught dumpling maker) but the usual
texture at the center is like a drop biscuit.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 2024-04-10, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 01:16:34 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
> (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
>
>>Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had lots of dumplings, but they were never dough balls.
>>>
>>>
>>I'm envious.
>
> The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
> choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
> only on the outside.

These dumplings are essentially raised (baking powder) noodles
cooked in a chicken stew. No insides.

My method is something like this, although I don't use the jarred
chicken base and I do add a little heavy cream to the stew:

https://www.foodandwine.com/meat-poultry/chicken/easy-chicken-and-dumplings

Like matzoh balls, but made with flour instead of matzoh meal.
A similar German dumpling that uses potato is called Kartoffelklöße.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 10 Apr 2024 08:56:19 GMT, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-04-10, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 01:16:34 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
>> (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
>>
>>>Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've had lots of dumplings, but they were never dough balls.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I'm envious.
>>
>> The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
>> choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
>> only on the outside.
>
>These dumplings are essentially raised (baking powder) noodles
>cooked in a chicken stew. No insides.
>
>My method is something like this, although I don't use the jarred
>chicken base and I do add a little heavy cream to the stew:
>
>https://www.foodandwine.com/meat-poultry/chicken/easy-chicken-and-dumplings
>
>Like matzoh balls, but made with flour instead of matzoh meal.
>A similar German dumpling that uses potato is called Kartoffelklöße.

I've never had dumplings in their original meaning, I don't think. I
can imagine that you have to cook them well or else they become a non
event.

In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
@www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> > On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
> >>
> >> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
> >> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
> >> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
> >> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
> >> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
> >> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
> >> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
> >> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
> >>
> >> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
> >> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
> >> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
> >> been downhill ever since.
> >>
> >> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>
> > Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
> > and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
> > doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
> >
> >
> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>
> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.

Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
Janet UK

On 4/10/2024 4:46 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>
>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>
>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>
>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>
>>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>
>>>
>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>
>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>
> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>
> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>
The ones made without eggs are just cheap lumps of empty starch.
They're perfect for supplying calories to slaves and prisoners.
>
> Janet UK
>

--
--Bryan
For your safety and protection, this sig. has been thoroughly
tested on laboratory animals.

"Most of the food described here is nauseating.
We're just too courteous to say so."
-- Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 05:42:26 -0500, BryanGSimmons
<bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 4:46 AM, Janet wrote:
>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>
>>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>>
>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>
>> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>
>> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
> >
>The ones made without eggs are just cheap lumps of empty starch.
>They're perfect for supplying calories to slaves and prisoners.

Not everybody has your weight problems, carb fearing fatty.

On 2024-04-10, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> > On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>> >>
>> >> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>> >> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>> >> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>> >> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>> >> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>> >> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>> >> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>> >> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>> >>
>> >> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>> >> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>> >> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>> >> been downhill ever since.
>> >>
>> >> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>
>> > Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>> > and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>> > doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>> >
>> >
>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>
>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>
> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>
> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.

They are arguably dough. "A mixture that consists essentially
of flour or meal and a liquid (such as milk or water) and is
stiff enough to knead or roll."

Depending on how much fat the cook chooses to use, they might
be a variation on biscuits, although not baked.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>
>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>
>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>
>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>
>>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>
>>>
>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>
>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>
> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>
> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>
That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
braising liquid of the stew.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On 2024-04-10, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>>
>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>
>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>
>> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>
>> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.

> They are arguably dough. "A mixture that consists essentially
> of flour or meal and a liquid (such as milk or water) and is
> stiff enough to knead or roll."

> Depending on how much fat the cook chooses to use, they might
> be a variation on biscuits, although not baked.
>
>
Yes, depending on how or what the cook does with the mixture, it
is indeed a dough. Add baking powder to that flour mixture and
you've got biscuits. Let it rest for about 30 minutes and roll
it out thin and you've got a pie crust. Pinch off dabs of the
dough or use a spoon and drop immediately into hot broth and
you've got dumplings.

jmcquown wrote:

> On 4/9/2024 6:28 AM, Janet wrote:
> > In article <uv1olg$3n7j9$3@dont-email.me>,
> > j_mcquown@comcast.net says...
> > >
> > > On 4/8/2024 1:56 PM, cshenk wrote:
> > > > jmcquown wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 4/7/2024 10:56 AM, cshenk wrote:
> > > > > > jmcquown wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 4/4/2024 1:30 AM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
> > > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I make much better-seasoned chicken and dumplings. My
> > > > > > > > > "fancy" touch is a couple of tempered eggs to the
> > > > > > > > > broth and toasting/roasting the dumplings before
> > > > > > > > > adding them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll take your word for it, but I don't eat chicken and
> > > > > > > > dumplings.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm a tad surprised to hear that, Joan. Good chicken &
> > > > > > > dumplings can be a very nice filling meal. It's basially
> > > > > > > chicken stew. I don't, however, care for "slicks".
> > > > > > > Those are the heavy, doughy, rolled out dumplings that
> > > > > > > sit in your gut like lead. When I make chicken &
> > > > > > > dumplings I make drop dumplings. They cook on the top of
> > > > > > > simmering chicken stew and are light and airy, not heavy
> > > > > > > lumps of dough.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the "toasted dumplings" Orlando is
> > > > > > > describing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am. Common one for the Stennis. It was like mini baked
> > > > > > buttermilk flaky biscuits, dropped at serving time on the
> > > > > > portion of the rest.
> > > > >
> > > > > Different strokes. It would never occur to me to bake
> > > > > biscuits and then put them on top of chicken stew.
> >
> > and call them dumplings
> >
> >>>> That would make it more like
> > > > > chicken pot pie. But hey, personal prefences. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jill
> > > >
> > > > Cooking for 5,000-7,000 people requires some differences,
> > > > Simple well made dishes tend to be the rule.
> > > >
> > > Oh, are we back to talking about cooking on a Navy ship? Sorry, I
> > > didn't realize. :(
> >
> > Yes, we're visiting Sasebo. Again.
> > Stand by for the latest news bulletin on Charlotte.
> > Janet UK
> >
> All of a sudden I'm wondering if Sheldon ever cooked any form of
> chicken & dumplings when he was a Navy cook in the 1950's. ;)
>
> Jill

Probably, but he always exaggurated the amounts. BTW, the Stennis was
in Norfolk VA.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On 2024-04-10, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 01:16:34 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
> > (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
> >
> > > Bruce wrote:
> > > >
> >>> I've had lots of dumplings, but they were never dough balls.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I'm envious.
> >
> > The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
> > choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
> > only on the outside.
>
> These dumplings are essentially raised (baking powder) noodles
> cooked in a chicken stew. No insides.
>
> My method is something like this, although I don't use the jarred
> chicken base and I do add a little heavy cream to the stew:
>
>
https://www.foodandwine.com/meat-poultry/chicken/easy-chicken-and-dumplings
>
> Like matzoh balls, but made with flour instead of matzoh meal.
> A similar German dumpling that uses potato is called Kartoffelklöße.

I like the recipe overall there. I can roughly figure out the version
on the Stennis (Norfolk VA then). Canned deboned chicken (skinless) in
a basic chicken gravy with canned peas and fresh carrots, S&P, celery
seed? then same biscuits but baked then added. Sounds basic and it was
but it was also quite good. Might have had other herbs and such.

In article <UDwRN.250221$hN14.115937@fx17.iad>,
adavid.smith@sympatico.ca says...
>
> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
> > In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
> > @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
> >>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
> >>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
> >>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
> >>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
> >>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
> >>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
> >>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
> >>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
> >>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
> >>>> been downhill ever since.
> >>>>
> >>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
> >>
> >>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
> >>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
> >>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
> >> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
> >> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
> >> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
> >>
> >> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
> >
> > Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
> >
> > Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
> >
> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
> braising liquid of the stew.

You had chicken and biscuits, not chicken and
dumplings.

Janet UK

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 22:50:49 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

>In article <UDwRN.250221$hN14.115937@fx17.iad>,
>adavid.smith@sympatico.ca says...
>>
>> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>> > In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>
>> > Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>> >
>> > Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>> >
>> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
>> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
>> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
>> braising liquid of the stew.
>
> You had chicken and biscuits, not chicken and
>dumplings.

Who eats chicken with cookies?

On 2024-04-10 5:50 p.m., Janet wrote:
> In article <UDwRN.250221$hN14.115937@fx17.iad>,
> adavid.smith@sympatico.ca says...
>>
>> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>>>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>>>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>>>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>>>
>>>>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>>>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>>>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>>>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>>>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>>>
>>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>>
>>> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>>
>>> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>>>
>> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
>> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
>> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
>> braising liquid of the stew.
>
> You had chicken and biscuits, not chicken and
> dumplings.

Curiously, all the recipes for chicken and dumplings the ingredients of
the dumpling portion of the recipe are more like biscuits than any other
dumpling recipe I know of, the main difference being melted butter
instead of chunked shortening, and the steaming instead of baking.

On 4/10/2024 12:18 AM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>>
>> The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
>> choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
>> only on the outside.
>>
>>
> Oh yeah, I love the pot stickers and just like chicken and dumpling
> makers, some of the Chinese dumpling makers are better than others.
> Some of the steamed ones are quite good.

Sure, but filled potstickers are not the same as the "dumplings" in
chicken & dumplings.

Jill

On 4/10/2024 4:56 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2024-04-10, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 01:16:34 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
>> (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've had lots of dumplings, but they were never dough balls.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm envious.
>>
>> The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
>> choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
>> only on the outside.
>
Hey Bruce, this is not about Chinese filled with whatever dumplings.

> These dumplings are essentially raised (baking powder) noodles
> cooked in a chicken stew. No insides.
>
> My method is something like this, although I don't use the jarred
> chicken base and I do add a little heavy cream to the stew:
>
> https://www.foodandwine.com/meat-poultry/chicken/easy-chicken-and-dumplings
>

That's nice! I don't use self-rising flour but the method and recipe
for the light simmered flour dumplings explains it.

Jill

On 4/10/2024 1:50 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> My method is something like this, although I don't use the jarred
>> chicken base and I do add a little heavy cream to the stew:
>>
> https://www.foodandwine.com/meat-poultry/chicken/easy-chicken-and-dumplings
>>
>> Like matzoh balls, but made with flour instead of matzoh meal.
>> A similar German dumpling that uses potato is called Kartoffelklöße.
>
> I like the recipe overall there. I can roughly figure out the version
> on the Stennis (Norfolk VA then). Canned deboned chicken (skinless) in
> a basic chicken gravy with canned peas and fresh carrots, S&P, celery
> seed? then same biscuits but baked then added. Sounds basic and it was
> but it was also quite good. Might have had other herbs and such.

I understand thread drift, Carol. But why do you keep talking about a
chicken stew (made using canned chicken) cooked for 5000+ people on a
Navy ship (the Stennis) topped with baked biscuits as opposed to actual
dumplings in chicken & dumplings? Not the same thing at all. Besides,
no one here is cooking for 5000+ people so the thread drift is a tad
odd. People here probably are not using canned chicken, either.

Jill

On 4/10/2024 9:38 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents.  I wasn't
>>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them.  They're always some
>>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>>> simmering for three days.  And the people that throw in the whole
>>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>>> downtown.  They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>>> through and through and quite tender.  Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>>
>>>> Ok.  I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>>> doing.  (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>>> old (again doubtful).  I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>>
>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>
>>     Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>     Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>>
> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
> braising liquid of the stew.
>
If they were baked first they were not dumplings. They were intended to
take the place of a pie crust.

Jill

On 2024-04-10 7:44 p.m., jmcquown wrote:
> On 4/10/2024 9:38 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents.  I wasn't
>>>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them.  They're always some
>>>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>>>> simmering for three days.  And the people that throw in the whole
>>>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>>>> downtown.  They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>>>> through and through and quite tender.  Sadly, after that sampling
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>>>
>>>>> Ok.  I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>>>> doing.  (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>>>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>>>> old (again doubtful).  I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>>>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>>>
>>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>>
>>>     Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>>     Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>>>
>> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
>> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
>> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
>> braising liquid of the stew.
>>
> If they were baked first they were not dumplings. They were intended to
> take the place of a pie crust.
>

There were not baked and then put on top of the chicken. The dough was
dropped onto the chicken and steamed. They were basically steamed
buscuits. Real dumplings are much better. I only had chicken and
dumplings a few times and never really cared much for it.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2024-04-10 5:50 p.m., Janet wrote:
>> In article <UDwRN.250221$hN14.115937@fx17.iad>,
>> adavid.smith@sympatico.ca says...
>>> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>>>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>>>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>>>>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>>>>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>>>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>>>>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>>>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>>>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>>>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>>>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>>>>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>>>>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>>>>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>>>>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>>>
>>>> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>>>
>>>> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>>>>
>>> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
>>> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
>>> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
>>> braising liquid of the stew.
>>
>> You had chicken and biscuits, not chicken and
>> dumplings.
>
> Curiously, all the recipes for chicken and dumplings the ingredients of
> the dumpling portion of the recipe are more like biscuits than any other
> dumpling recipe I know of, the main difference being melted butter
> instead of chunked shortening, and the steaming instead of baking.

so far the various versions i've seen posted i've had
and most of them i can pass on ever having again, but that's
because i've eaten too many of them already and i'm no longer
all that much of a chicken eater.

the best versions to me were the ones that took the cover
off after the dumplings were mostly done to brown them up a
bit.

songbird

jmcquown wrote:
> On 4/10/2024 1:50 PM, cshenk wrote:
....
>> I like the recipe overall there. I can roughly figure out the version
>> on the Stennis (Norfolk VA then). Canned deboned chicken (skinless) in
>> a basic chicken gravy with canned peas and fresh carrots, S&P, celery
>> seed? then same biscuits but baked then added. Sounds basic and it was
>> but it was also quite good. Might have had other herbs and such.
>
> I understand thread drift, Carol. But why do you keep talking about a
> chicken stew (made using canned chicken) cooked for 5000+ people on a
> Navy ship (the Stennis) topped with baked biscuits as opposed to actual
> dumplings in chicken & dumplings? Not the same thing at all.

opinions differ, just the same for meatloaf, pizza,
or thousands of other dishes that people can make.

> Besides,
> no one here is cooking for 5000+ people so the thread drift is a tad
> odd. People here probably are not using canned chicken, either.

doesn't matter to me. it's just talking about food
and cooking.

songbird

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:09:27 -0400, jmcquown <j_mcquown@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 12:18 AM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
>> Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> The Chinese and Russian dumplings that I know, have a filling of
>>> choice and are wrapped in a fairly thin skin. So there is dough, but
>>> only on the outside.
>>>
>>>
>> Oh yeah, I love the pot stickers and just like chicken and dumpling
>> makers, some of the Chinese dumpling makers are better than others.
>> Some of the steamed ones are quite good.
>
>Sure, but filled potstickers are not the same as the "dumplings" in
>chicken & dumplings.

"The term emerged in English by the 17th century, where it referred to
a small lump of dough cooked by simmering or steaming.[4][2] The
definition has since grown to include filled dumplings, where the
dough encloses a sweet or savory filling."
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumpling>

Potstickers are Chinese dumplings.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaozi#Guotie>

On 2024-04-10, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> In article <UDwRN.250221$hN14.115937@fx17.iad>,
> adavid.smith@sympatico.ca says...
>>
>> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>> > In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>> > @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>> >>
>> >> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>> >>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>> >>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>> >>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>> >>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>> >>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>> >>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>> >>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>> >>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>> >>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>> >>>> been downhill ever since.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>> >>
>> >>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>> >>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>> >>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>> >> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>> >> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>> >> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>> >>
>> >> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>> >
>> > Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>> >
>> > Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>> >
>> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
>> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
>> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
>> braising liquid of the stew.
>
> You had chicken and biscuits, not chicken and
> dumplings.

How do you know? Were you there?

There are two schools of dumplings: dropped and rolled.

Which school do you belong to? Do you add fat to dumplings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumpling#British_and_Irish

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 2024-04-10, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 2024-04-10 5:50 p.m., Janet wrote:
>> In article <UDwRN.250221$hN14.115937@fx17.iad>,
>> adavid.smith@sympatico.ca says...
>>>
>>> On 2024-04-10 5:46 a.m., Janet wrote:
>>>> In article <1086c35e1e20565a2d9d15511639e648
>>>> @www.novabbs.com>, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net says...
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-04-09, ItsJoanNotJoAnn <ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hank pretty much nailed it, bit I'll elaborate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chicken and dumplings were something that never saw the light of day
>>>>>>> at my parents house, my aunts houses, nor my grandparents. I wasn't
>>>>>>> raised on them and didn't know what to expect, but the experience has
>>>>>>> never been a good one no matter who makes them. They're always some
>>>>>>> stodgy dough ball that is raw in the center even if they have been
>>>>>>> simmering for three days. And the people that throw in the whole
>>>>>>> pieces of chicken with that flabby white skin attached just make my
>>>>>>> hair stand on end when a chicken leg is fished out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only one time I've ever eaten 'slicks' and they were at a restaurant
>>>>>>> downtown. They were stunningly delicious, not doughy, but flavorful
>>>>>>> through and through and quite tender. Sadly, after that sampling it's
>>>>>>> been downhill ever since.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Sorry to be so late in replying.)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok. I think we've established that you've only ever had chicken
>>>>>> and dumplings made by people who don't know what the hell they're
>>>>>> doing. (Except for that one experience with slicks.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I've had them from people who've claimed they've won ribbons
>>>>> for theirs (doubtful) and those claiming their recipe is centuries
>>>>> old (again doubtful). I've tried Paula Deen's recipe, before she got
>>>>> famous, I'm just not a fan of dough balls.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I need a dough fix I'll just stick with my chicken pot pie.
>>>>
>>>> Chicken pot pie is topped with pastry.
>>>>
>>>> Dumplings are not pastry, not dough, not biscuits.
>>>>
>>> That would depend on the dumplings. Most dumplings are variations of
>>> some type of dough simmered in water, broth or a stew. The times I had
>>> chicken and dumplings there were basically biscuits cooked on top of
>>> braising liquid of the stew.
>>
>> You had chicken and biscuits, not chicken and
>> dumplings.
>
> Curiously, all the recipes for chicken and dumplings the ingredients of
> the dumpling portion of the recipe are more like biscuits than any other
> dumpling recipe I know of, the main difference being melted butter
> instead of chunked shortening, and the steaming instead of baking.

Typically not as much fat in a dumpling (1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon fat)
as in a biscuit (1 cup flour, 3 tablespoons fat).

Dumplings can be made with no fat at all.
https://www.literarynorfolk.co.uk/Norfolk%20Poems/norfolk_dumpling_recipe.htm

--
Cindy Hamilton