On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 11:29:18 AM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 7:02:31 AM UTC-8, mike davis wrote:
> > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 5:37:09 PM UTC, dahe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > Charlemagne has always evaded me as I have no relative on the approved Gateway List.
> > Where is this list? Is it on a website somewhere. Is this just for the USA? Is there
> > something similar compiled for other countries. A list of people with
> > verified descents from Charlemagne in the UK c1800 would be quite large I hope.
> >
> > Mike
> There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
>
> https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
>
> I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> So caveat emptor.

The list is pretty accurate, as in it is based on some published research. It certainly is not a "complete" list; but obviously that is not the intent of the list at all.
--Joe Cook

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:56:23 PM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:06:36 PM UTC, nathan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
> > >
> > > https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
> > >
> > > I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> > > So caveat emptor.
> > Thanks for the shout out Will. I inherited the list and now serve as the Order's genealogist. I haven't had a chance to review all the lines listed, but have worked through many of them.
> >
> > Nathan
> It would be useful to have their born and death dates alongside the names to help id, as many of them
> are quite common. I was interested in Dr Charles Carroll; is he is the Dr Charles [d1755] who emigrated
> from Ireland in 1715, and went on to establish his family at Mount Clare Md? I'm not sure but it seemed
> that both his sons died childless, if so, any descendants could only come from his daughter Mary Clare
> who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> from Charlemagne?

Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ

Joe Cook

> > Nathan
> Is there going to be at some point, an update that shows the actual line laid-out in full?

Additions and deletions are made to the list as applications for membership are processed. I also add new gateways as they are discovered.

Nathan

> Is there going to be at some point, an update that shows the actual line laid-out in full?

That is an interesting idea. There aren't plans to publish the entire lineages back to Charlemagne on the website at this time, but I'll keep that idea in mind.

Nathan

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 12:38:40 AM UTC-8, nathan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Is there going to be at some point, an update that shows the actual line laid-out in full?
> That is an interesting idea. There aren't plans to publish the entire lineages back to Charlemagne on the website at this time, but I'll keep that idea in mind.
>
> Nathan

Another useful point, might be to cite, for each name, an article that gives their parents, etc.

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 1:54:13 AM UTC, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:56:23 PM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:06:36 PM UTC, nathan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
> > > >
> > > > https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
> > > >
> > > > I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> > > > So caveat emptor.
> > > Thanks for the shout out Will. I inherited the list and now serve as the Order's genealogist. I haven't had a chance to review all the lines listed, but have worked through many of them.
> > >
> > > Nathan
> > It would be useful to have their born and death dates alongside the names to help id, as many of them
> > are quite common. I was interested in Dr Charles Carroll; is he is the Dr Charles [d1755] who emigrated
> > from Ireland in 1715, and went on to establish his family at Mount Clare Md? I'm not sure but it seemed
> > that both his sons died childless, if so, any descendants could only come from his daughter Mary Clare
> > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > from Charlemagne?
> Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
>
> Joe Cook

Thanks for pointing out this line
Assuming the original poster was correct,
is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.

Mike

1. Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757, of Clonlisk, Co. Offaly,
Ireland, and Annapolis, Md., where he settled c. 1712.

2. Col.Charles Carroll, b. c. 1635, d. by 1712; of Clonlisk.
3. Clare Dunne (Clara ni Duinn, O'Duinn), fl. 1691-1712.

4. John O'Carroll, b. 1596, fl. 1663, of Clonlisk Castle; last
recognized Lord or Chief of Ely O'Carroll.
5. Mary Dillon, fl. 1631-63.
6. Charles Dunne (O'Duinn), c. 1620-1681, of Brittas, Co. Leix.
7. Margaret Coghlan (ni Cochlain, MacCoghlan).

8. Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll, killed 1595; of Tewriske, Co.
Offaly.
9. Margaret ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
10. Sir Lucas Dillon, fl. l612-53, d. by 1659; of Loughglynn and
Ballymacmorough, Co. Roscommon; member of the Supreme Council of
the Irish Catholic (Kilkenny) Confderation.
11. Jane Moore, fl. 1659.
12. Barnaby Dunne (Brian Og O'Duinn), c. 1593-1661, of Brittas,
Co. Laois.
13. _____ Fitzgerald.
14. Toirdhealbach MacCochlain (Terence Coghlan, MacCoghlan), fl.
1523, d. 1653; of Kilcolgan Castle, Rachra Castle, etc., Co.
Offaly.
15. Mary Dillon, fl. 1635-65.

16. Tadhg O'Carroll, fl. 1568, d. by 1580; of Lemyvanan (Leap)
Castle, Co. Offaly.
17. "a Galway lady."
18. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, Co. Laois, d. 1606/7.
19. Elizabeth Fitzgerald.
20. Sir Theobald Dillon, 1st Viscount Dillon of Costello-Gallen,
fl. 1582, d. 1624.
21. Eleanor Tuite, d. 1638.
22. Sir John Moore, fl. 1560, d. 1631; of Brees, Co. Mayo; Cloghan
Castle, Co. Offaly, etc.; Clerk of the Crown for Coinnaught.
23. Mary Burke, d. 1624.
24. Brian O'Duinn, d. 1614; of Brittas, Co. Laois.
25. _____ ni Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy).
26. James Fitzgerald, d. 1602; of Kilrush and Dunmorughell, Co.
Kildare.
27. _____ ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
28. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1591, d. 1642; of Kincora Castle,
Co. Offaly; Chief of the Sliocht (sept) Fearghaill MacCochlain.
29. Meadhg ni Maonaigh (Maud O'Mooney).
30. Robert Dillon, b. c. 1575, fl. 1641; of Cannerstown Castle,
Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
31. Margaret Dillon.

32. Sir William Odhar O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed
1581.
33. Sadhbh ni Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick), fl.
1568.
36. Tadhg Riabhach (Fuscus, the Swarthy) O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan,
fl. 1540-72.
37. _____ ni Muiris (MacMorish).
38. James Fitzgerald, fl. 1520-61, d. by 1568; of Ballyshannon
Castle and Blackwood, Co. Kildare.
39. Katherine Eustace.
40. Thomas Maol (the Bald) Dillon, fl. 1535; of Ballynakill,
Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
42. William Buidhe (the Yellow-Haired) Tuite, fl. 1572-88; of
Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
43. Margaret Fitzgerald.
46. Sir Richard Burke, 2d Earl of Clanricarde, 2d Baron Dunkellin,
c. 1530-1582.
47. Margaret O'Brien, d. 1568.
48-49. same as nos. 18-19.
50. Cathaoir MacFerganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (Cahir MacFirr O'Molloy),
of Ballyboy, Co. Offaly.
52. Sir Maurice Fitzgerald, c. 1526-1575, of Lackagh and
Norraghbegg, Co. Kildare.
53. Margaret Butler.
54-55. same as nos. 18-19.
56. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1540-57; of Feddan and Kincora, Co.
Offaly.
57. Sile ni Diomusaigh (O'Dempsey).
58. Sean O'Maonaigh (John O'Mooney), of Eskercastle, Co. Offaly.
60. Thomas Dillon, d. 1593; of Arnacrany and Kilmackeron, Co.
Westmeath; Chamberlain of the Irish Exchequer.
61. Margaret Cashell, fl. 1581-88.
62-63. same as nos. 20-21.

64. Ferganainm O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed 1541.
66. Sir Brian Mac Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick),
Lord of Upper Ossory, 1st Baron Upper Ossory, fl. 1511, d. 1575.
67. Margaret Butler, fl. 1529-42, d. by 1551.
72. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1537-41.
73. Gormliath ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
76. Sir Gerald MacShane Fitzgerald, d. 1533/4; of Cloncurry,
Blackwood and Ballyshannon Castle, Co. Kildare.
77. Grainne ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
78. Sir Thomas Eustace, 1st Viscount Baltinglass, 1st Baron
Kilcullen, c. 1480-1549.
79. Margaret Talbot.
80. James Dillon, an Prior Mor (the Great Prior), fl. 1500-1550;
of Ballynakill, Dillon's Country, Co. Westmeath; prior in
commendam of St. John Baptist, Kilkenny West.
81. _____ Dowling.
84. Sir Richard Tuite, d. 1565; of Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
85. Ellen Barnewall.
86. Gerald (Garret Og) Fitzgerald, d. c. 1541; of Croboy, Co.
Meath.
87. Marian St. Lawrence, fl. 1541.
92. Sir Ulikc Burke (Uilleag na-gCeann, Ulick of the Heads), Lord
of Clanricarde, 1st Earl of Clanricarde, 1st Baron Dunkellin, d.
1544.
93. Grainne ni Cearbhaill (O'Carroll).
94. Sir Donnchadh Mor (Donough the Fat) O'Brien, 2d Earl of
Thomond, 1st Baron Ibracken, d. 1553.
95. Ellen Butler, c. 1520-1597.
100. Ferganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy), fl. 1558; of Ballyboy,
Co. Offaly.
101. Sadhbh ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
104. Thomas Fitzgerald, d. 1553; of Lackagh and Norraghbegg, Co.
Kildare.
105. Eleanor Delahide.
106. The Most Rev. Edmund Butler, O.S. Trin., d. 1551; prior in
commendam of Athassel, Co. Tipperary; Archbishop of Cashel,
1525-51.
112. James Og Maccochlain, d. 1540; of Feddan Castle, Co. Offaly.
116. Ruaidhri O'Maonaigh (O'Mooney), fl. 1558; of Eskercastle, Co.
Offaly.
120. Sir Robert Dillon, c. 1500-1580, of Newtown near Trim, Co.
Westmeath, and Dublin; Attorney General of Ireland; Justice of the
Court of Queen's Bench; Chief Justice of the Court of Common
Pleas, 1559-80.
121. Genet Barnewall.
122. Stephen Cashell, fl. 1538, d. 1564; of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
123. Margaret St. Lawrence.

128. Maolruanaidh Mor O'Carroll. Lord of Ely O'Carroll, d. 1532.
129. _____ ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
132. Brian na-Luireach (Brian of the Shirts of Mail) Mac Giolla
Phadraig (MacGillapatrick), Lord of Upper Ossory, d. c. 1511.
133. Noirin (Honora) ni Mordha (O'More).
134. Sir Piers Ruadh (the Red) Butler, 8th Earl of Ormonde, 1st
Earl of Ossory, c. 1467-1539.
135. Margaret Fitzgerald, fl. 1485, d. 1542.
144. Tadhg MacLaighneach O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1475.
145. Ellin Le Poer.
146. Cathaoir O'Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley), Lord of
Offaly, killed 1511.
142. Sir John (Shane) Fitzgerald, d. 1466; of Cloncurry, Co.
Kildare.
143. Fenole ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
154. Gearalt Mac Murchadha Caomhanach (Gerald MacMorough
Kavanagh), constable of Carlow Castle, 1495.
156. Sir Richard fitzEustace, fl. 1479-1500; of Harristown Castle,
Co. Kildare.
157. Anne FitzEustace.
158. Sir Peter Talbot, d. 1529; lord of Malahide, Co. Dublin.
159. Catherine Fitzgerald.
160. Sir Gerald (Garret) Dillon, of Dunimony Castle, Co.
Westmeath; fl. 1532.
161. _____ Fitzgerald.
168. Sir Edward Tuite, 1467-1531, of Monylea, Co. Westmeath.
169. Margaret Fitzgerald.
172. Same as no. 76.
173. Katherine Plunkett.
174. Sir Nicholas St. Lawrence, 3d Baron Howth, fl. 1478, d, 1526.
175. Alice Fitzsimons.
184. Richard Mor Burke, Lord of Clanricarde, d. 1530.
185. _____ ni Madain (O'Madden).
186. Same as no. 128.
187. _____ ni Ceinedigh Fionn (O'Kennedy Finn).
188. Conchobhair (Conor) O'Brien, King of Thomond, d. 1539.
189. Margaret (or Annabel) Burke, d. by 1539.
190-191. same as nos. 134-135.
200. Dohnaill O'Maolmuaidh (Donal O'Molloy), of Co. Offaly.
208. Sir Mauricce Fitzgerald, killed 1520; of Lackagh, Co.
Kildare; Lord Deputy of Ireland, 1519-20.
209. Anne FitzEustace.
210. Sir James Delahide, of Moyclare Castle, Co. Kildare.
211. Rose Hussey.
212. same as no. 134.
213. _____Hackett.
224. James MacCochlain, killed v.p. 1510; prior of the monastery
of Gallen, Co. Offaly.
232. Eoghan O'Maonaigh (Owen O'Mooney).
240. James Dillon, fl. 1477-79, d. by 1507; of Monktown and
Riverston, Co. Meath; First Baron of the Irish Exchequer.
241. Elizabeth Bathe.
242. Edward Barnewall, d. 1511; of Crickstown Castle and
Kilmessan, Co. Meath; Chancellor of the Exchequer.
243. Elizabeth Plunkett.
244. Leonard Cashell, of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
246. Sir Christopher St. Lawrence, 4th Baron Howth, c. 1482-1542,
of Howth, Co. Dublin.
247. Anne Bermingham, heiress of Baldongan Castle, etc., Co.
Dublin.

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 2:21:22 PM UTC-8, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 2:06:36 PM UTC-8, nathan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
> > >
> > > https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
> > >
> > > I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> > > So caveat emptor.
> > Thanks for the shout out Will. I inherited the list and now serve as the Order's genealogist. I haven't had a chance to review all the lines listed, but have worked through many of them.
> >
> > Nathan
> Is there going to be at some point, an update that shows the actual line laid-out in full?

You can find most of the details here:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Magna_Carta_Ancestry_A_Study_in_Colonial/8JcbV309c5UC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=abbott+anne+mauleverer+nottingham&pg=PR23&printsec=frontcover

Leslie

Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 1:54:13 AM UTC, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:56:23 PM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:06:36 PM UTC, nathan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> > > > > So caveat emptor.
> > > > Thanks for the shout out Will. I inherited the list and now serve as the Order's genealogist. I haven't had a chance to review all the lines listed, but have worked through many of them.
> > > >
> > > > Nathan
> > > It would be useful to have their born and death dates alongside the names to help id, as many of them
> > > are quite common. I was interested in Dr Charles Carroll; is he is the Dr Charles [d1755] who emigrated
> > > from Ireland in 1715, and went on to establish his family at Mount Clare Md? I'm not sure but it seemed
> > > that both his sons died childless, if so, any descendants could only come from his daughter Mary Clare
> > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > from Charlemagne?
> > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> >
> > Joe Cook
> Thanks for pointing out this line
> Assuming the original poster was correct,
> is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
>
> Mike
>
> 1. Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757, of Clonlisk, Co. Offaly,
> Ireland, and Annapolis, Md., where he settled c. 1712.
>
> 2. Col.Charles Carroll, b. c. 1635, d. by 1712; of Clonlisk.
> 3. Clare Dunne (Clara ni Duinn, O'Duinn), fl. 1691-1712.
>
> 4. John O'Carroll, b. 1596, fl. 1663, of Clonlisk Castle; last
> recognized Lord or Chief of Ely O'Carroll.
> 5. Mary Dillon, fl. 1631-63.
> 6. Charles Dunne (O'Duinn), c. 1620-1681, of Brittas, Co. Leix.
> 7. Margaret Coghlan (ni Cochlain, MacCoghlan).
>
> 8. Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll, killed 1595; of Tewriske, Co.
> Offaly.
> 9. Margaret ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
> 10. Sir Lucas Dillon, fl. l612-53, d. by 1659; of Loughglynn and
> Ballymacmorough, Co. Roscommon; member of the Supreme Council of
> the Irish Catholic (Kilkenny) Confderation.
> 11. Jane Moore, fl. 1659.
> 12. Barnaby Dunne (Brian Og O'Duinn), c. 1593-1661, of Brittas,
> Co. Laois.
> 13. _____ Fitzgerald.
> 14. Toirdhealbach MacCochlain (Terence Coghlan, MacCoghlan), fl.
> 1523, d. 1653; of Kilcolgan Castle, Rachra Castle, etc., Co.
> Offaly.
> 15. Mary Dillon, fl. 1635-65.
>
> 16. Tadhg O'Carroll, fl. 1568, d. by 1580; of Lemyvanan (Leap)
> Castle, Co. Offaly.
> 17. "a Galway lady."
> 18. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, Co. Laois, d. 1606/7.
> 19. Elizabeth Fitzgerald.
> 20. Sir Theobald Dillon, 1st Viscount Dillon of Costello-Gallen,
> fl. 1582, d. 1624.
> 21. Eleanor Tuite, d. 1638.
> 22. Sir John Moore, fl. 1560, d. 1631; of Brees, Co. Mayo; Cloghan
> Castle, Co. Offaly, etc.; Clerk of the Crown for Coinnaught.
> 23. Mary Burke, d. 1624.
> 24. Brian O'Duinn, d. 1614; of Brittas, Co. Laois.
> 25. _____ ni Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy).
> 26. James Fitzgerald, d. 1602; of Kilrush and Dunmorughell, Co.
> Kildare.
> 27. _____ ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
> 28. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1591, d. 1642; of Kincora Castle,
> Co. Offaly; Chief of the Sliocht (sept) Fearghaill MacCochlain.
> 29. Meadhg ni Maonaigh (Maud O'Mooney).
> 30. Robert Dillon, b. c. 1575, fl. 1641; of Cannerstown Castle,
> Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
> 31. Margaret Dillon.
>
> 32. Sir William Odhar O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed
> 1581.
> 33. Sadhbh ni Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick), fl.
> 1568.
> 36. Tadhg Riabhach (Fuscus, the Swarthy) O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan,
> fl. 1540-72.
> 37. _____ ni Muiris (MacMorish).
> 38. James Fitzgerald, fl. 1520-61, d. by 1568; of Ballyshannon
> Castle and Blackwood, Co. Kildare.
> 39. Katherine Eustace.
> 40. Thomas Maol (the Bald) Dillon, fl. 1535; of Ballynakill,
> Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
> 42. William Buidhe (the Yellow-Haired) Tuite, fl. 1572-88; of
> Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
> 43. Margaret Fitzgerald.
> 46. Sir Richard Burke, 2d Earl of Clanricarde, 2d Baron Dunkellin,
> c. 1530-1582.
> 47. Margaret O'Brien, d. 1568.
> 48-49. same as nos. 18-19.
> 50. Cathaoir MacFerganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (Cahir MacFirr O'Molloy),
> of Ballyboy, Co. Offaly.
> 52. Sir Maurice Fitzgerald, c. 1526-1575, of Lackagh and
> Norraghbegg, Co. Kildare.
> 53. Margaret Butler.
> 54-55. same as nos. 18-19.
> 56. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1540-57; of Feddan and Kincora, Co.
> Offaly.
> 57. Sile ni Diomusaigh (O'Dempsey).
> 58. Sean O'Maonaigh (John O'Mooney), of Eskercastle, Co. Offaly.
> 60. Thomas Dillon, d. 1593; of Arnacrany and Kilmackeron, Co.
> Westmeath; Chamberlain of the Irish Exchequer.
> 61. Margaret Cashell, fl. 1581-88.
> 62-63. same as nos. 20-21.
>
> 64. Ferganainm O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed 1541.
> 66. Sir Brian Mac Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick),
> Lord of Upper Ossory, 1st Baron Upper Ossory, fl. 1511, d. 1575.
> 67. Margaret Butler, fl. 1529-42, d. by 1551.
> 72. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1537-41.
> 73. Gormliath ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> 76. Sir Gerald MacShane Fitzgerald, d. 1533/4; of Cloncurry,
> Blackwood and Ballyshannon Castle, Co. Kildare.
> 77. Grainne ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
> 78. Sir Thomas Eustace, 1st Viscount Baltinglass, 1st Baron
> Kilcullen, c. 1480-1549.
> 79. Margaret Talbot.
> 80. James Dillon, an Prior Mor (the Great Prior), fl. 1500-1550;
> of Ballynakill, Dillon's Country, Co. Westmeath; prior in
> commendam of St. John Baptist, Kilkenny West.
> 81. _____ Dowling.
> 84. Sir Richard Tuite, d. 1565; of Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
> 85. Ellen Barnewall.
> 86. Gerald (Garret Og) Fitzgerald, d. c. 1541; of Croboy, Co.
> Meath.
> 87. Marian St. Lawrence, fl. 1541.
> 92. Sir Ulikc Burke (Uilleag na-gCeann, Ulick of the Heads), Lord
> of Clanricarde, 1st Earl of Clanricarde, 1st Baron Dunkellin, d.
> 1544.
> 93. Grainne ni Cearbhaill (O'Carroll).
> 94. Sir Donnchadh Mor (Donough the Fat) O'Brien, 2d Earl of
> Thomond, 1st Baron Ibracken, d. 1553.
> 95. Ellen Butler, c. 1520-1597.
> 100. Ferganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy), fl. 1558; of Ballyboy,
> Co. Offaly.
> 101. Sadhbh ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> 104. Thomas Fitzgerald, d. 1553; of Lackagh and Norraghbegg, Co.
> Kildare.
> 105. Eleanor Delahide.
> 106. The Most Rev. Edmund Butler, O.S. Trin., d. 1551; prior in
> commendam of Athassel, Co. Tipperary; Archbishop of Cashel,
> 1525-51.
> 112. James Og Maccochlain, d. 1540; of Feddan Castle, Co. Offaly.
> 116. Ruaidhri O'Maonaigh (O'Mooney), fl. 1558; of Eskercastle, Co.
> Offaly.
> 120. Sir Robert Dillon, c. 1500-1580, of Newtown near Trim, Co.
> Westmeath, and Dublin; Attorney General of Ireland; Justice of the
> Court of Queen's Bench; Chief Justice of the Court of Common
> Pleas, 1559-80.
> 121. Genet Barnewall.
> 122. Stephen Cashell, fl. 1538, d. 1564; of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
> 123. Margaret St. Lawrence.
>
> 128. Maolruanaidh Mor O'Carroll. Lord of Ely O'Carroll, d. 1532.
> 129. _____ ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
> 132. Brian na-Luireach (Brian of the Shirts of Mail) Mac Giolla
> Phadraig (MacGillapatrick), Lord of Upper Ossory, d. c. 1511.
> 133. Noirin (Honora) ni Mordha (O'More).
> 134. Sir Piers Ruadh (the Red) Butler, 8th Earl of Ormonde, 1st
> Earl of Ossory, c. 1467-1539.
> 135. Margaret Fitzgerald, fl. 1485, d. 1542.
> 144. Tadhg MacLaighneach O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1475.
> 145. Ellin Le Poer.
> 146. Cathaoir O'Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley), Lord of
> Offaly, killed 1511.
> 142. Sir John (Shane) Fitzgerald, d. 1466; of Cloncurry, Co.
> Kildare.
> 143. Fenole ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> 154. Gearalt Mac Murchadha Caomhanach (Gerald MacMorough
> Kavanagh), constable of Carlow Castle, 1495.
> 156. Sir Richard fitzEustace, fl. 1479-1500; of Harristown Castle,
> Co. Kildare.
> 157. Anne FitzEustace.
> 158. Sir Peter Talbot, d. 1529; lord of Malahide, Co. Dublin.
> 159. Catherine Fitzgerald.
> 160. Sir Gerald (Garret) Dillon, of Dunimony Castle, Co.
> Westmeath; fl. 1532.
> 161. _____ Fitzgerald.
> 168. Sir Edward Tuite, 1467-1531, of Monylea, Co. Westmeath.
> 169. Margaret Fitzgerald.
> 172. Same as no. 76.
> 173. Katherine Plunkett.
> 174. Sir Nicholas St. Lawrence, 3d Baron Howth, fl. 1478, d, 1526.
> 175. Alice Fitzsimons.
> 184. Richard Mor Burke, Lord of Clanricarde, d. 1530.
> 185. _____ ni Madain (O'Madden).
> 186. Same as no. 128.
> 187. _____ ni Ceinedigh Fionn (O'Kennedy Finn).
> 188. Conchobhair (Conor) O'Brien, King of Thomond, d. 1539.
> 189. Margaret (or Annabel) Burke, d. by 1539.
> 190-191. same as nos. 134-135.
> 200. Dohnaill O'Maolmuaidh (Donal O'Molloy), of Co. Offaly.
> 208. Sir Mauricce Fitzgerald, killed 1520; of Lackagh, Co.
> Kildare; Lord Deputy of Ireland, 1519-20.
> 209. Anne FitzEustace.
> 210. Sir James Delahide, of Moyclare Castle, Co. Kildare.
> 211. Rose Hussey.
> 212. same as no. 134.
> 213. _____Hackett.
> 224. James MacCochlain, killed v.p. 1510; prior of the monastery
> of Gallen, Co. Offaly.
> 232. Eoghan O'Maonaigh (Owen O'Mooney).
> 240. James Dillon, fl. 1477-79, d. by 1507; of Monktown and
> Riverston, Co. Meath; First Baron of the Irish Exchequer.
> 241. Elizabeth Bathe.
> 242. Edward Barnewall, d. 1511; of Crickstown Castle and
> Kilmessan, Co. Meath; Chancellor of the Exchequer.
> 243. Elizabeth Plunkett.
> 244. Leonard Cashell, of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
> 246. Sir Christopher St. Lawrence, 4th Baron Howth, c. 1482-1542,
> of Howth, Co. Dublin.
> 247. Anne Bermingham, heiress of Baldongan Castle, etc., Co.
> Dublin.

Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 1:54:13 AM UTC, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:56:23 PM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:06:36 PM UTC, nathan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> > > > > So caveat emptor.
> > > > Thanks for the shout out Will. I inherited the list and now serve as the Order's genealogist. I haven't had a chance to review all the lines listed, but have worked through many of them.
> > > >
> > > > Nathan
> > > It would be useful to have their born and death dates alongside the names to help id, as many of them
> > > are quite common. I was interested in Dr Charles Carroll; is he is the Dr Charles [d1755] who emigrated
> > > from Ireland in 1715, and went on to establish his family at Mount Clare Md? I'm not sure but it seemed
> > > that both his sons died childless, if so, any descendants could only come from his daughter Mary Clare
> > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > from Charlemagne?
> > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> >
> > Joe Cook
> Thanks for pointing out this line
> Assuming the original poster was correct,
> is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
>
> Mike
>
> 1. Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757, of Clonlisk, Co. Offaly,
> Ireland, and Annapolis, Md., where he settled c. 1712.
>
> 2. Col.Charles Carroll, b. c. 1635, d. by 1712; of Clonlisk.
> 3. Clare Dunne (Clara ni Duinn, O'Duinn), fl. 1691-1712.
>
> 4. John O'Carroll, b. 1596, fl. 1663, of Clonlisk Castle; last
> recognized Lord or Chief of Ely O'Carroll.
> 5. Mary Dillon, fl. 1631-63.
> 6. Charles Dunne (O'Duinn), c. 1620-1681, of Brittas, Co. Leix.
> 7. Margaret Coghlan (ni Cochlain, MacCoghlan).
>
> 8. Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll, killed 1595; of Tewriske, Co.
> Offaly.
> 9. Margaret ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
> 10. Sir Lucas Dillon, fl. l612-53, d. by 1659; of Loughglynn and
> Ballymacmorough, Co. Roscommon; member of the Supreme Council of
> the Irish Catholic (Kilkenny) Confderation.
> 11. Jane Moore, fl. 1659.
> 12. Barnaby Dunne (Brian Og O'Duinn), c. 1593-1661, of Brittas,
> Co. Laois.
> 13. _____ Fitzgerald.
> 14. Toirdhealbach MacCochlain (Terence Coghlan, MacCoghlan), fl.
> 1523, d. 1653; of Kilcolgan Castle, Rachra Castle, etc., Co.
> Offaly.
> 15. Mary Dillon, fl. 1635-65.
>
> 16. Tadhg O'Carroll, fl. 1568, d. by 1580; of Lemyvanan (Leap)
> Castle, Co. Offaly.
> 17. "a Galway lady."
> 18. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, Co. Laois, d. 1606/7.
> 19. Elizabeth Fitzgerald.
> 20. Sir Theobald Dillon, 1st Viscount Dillon of Costello-Gallen,
> fl. 1582, d. 1624.
> 21. Eleanor Tuite, d. 1638.
> 22. Sir John Moore, fl. 1560, d. 1631; of Brees, Co. Mayo; Cloghan
> Castle, Co. Offaly, etc.; Clerk of the Crown for Coinnaught.
> 23. Mary Burke, d. 1624.
> 24. Brian O'Duinn, d. 1614; of Brittas, Co. Laois.
> 25. _____ ni Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy).
> 26. James Fitzgerald, d. 1602; of Kilrush and Dunmorughell, Co.
> Kildare.
> 27. _____ ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
> 28. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1591, d. 1642; of Kincora Castle,
> Co. Offaly; Chief of the Sliocht (sept) Fearghaill MacCochlain.
> 29. Meadhg ni Maonaigh (Maud O'Mooney).
> 30. Robert Dillon, b. c. 1575, fl. 1641; of Cannerstown Castle,
> Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
> 31. Margaret Dillon.
>
> 32. Sir William Odhar O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed
> 1581.
> 33. Sadhbh ni Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick), fl.
> 1568.
> 36. Tadhg Riabhach (Fuscus, the Swarthy) O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan,
> fl. 1540-72.
> 37. _____ ni Muiris (MacMorish).
> 38. James Fitzgerald, fl. 1520-61, d. by 1568; of Ballyshannon
> Castle and Blackwood, Co. Kildare.
> 39. Katherine Eustace.
> 40. Thomas Maol (the Bald) Dillon, fl. 1535; of Ballynakill,
> Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
> 42. William Buidhe (the Yellow-Haired) Tuite, fl. 1572-88; of
> Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
> 43. Margaret Fitzgerald.
> 46. Sir Richard Burke, 2d Earl of Clanricarde, 2d Baron Dunkellin,
> c. 1530-1582.
> 47. Margaret O'Brien, d. 1568.
> 48-49. same as nos. 18-19.
> 50. Cathaoir MacFerganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (Cahir MacFirr O'Molloy),
> of Ballyboy, Co. Offaly.
> 52. Sir Maurice Fitzgerald, c. 1526-1575, of Lackagh and
> Norraghbegg, Co. Kildare.
> 53. Margaret Butler.
> 54-55. same as nos. 18-19.
> 56. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1540-57; of Feddan and Kincora, Co.
> Offaly.
> 57. Sile ni Diomusaigh (O'Dempsey).
> 58. Sean O'Maonaigh (John O'Mooney), of Eskercastle, Co. Offaly.
> 60. Thomas Dillon, d. 1593; of Arnacrany and Kilmackeron, Co.
> Westmeath; Chamberlain of the Irish Exchequer.
> 61. Margaret Cashell, fl. 1581-88.
> 62-63. same as nos. 20-21.
>
> 64. Ferganainm O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed 1541.
> 66. Sir Brian Mac Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick),
> Lord of Upper Ossory, 1st Baron Upper Ossory, fl. 1511, d. 1575.
> 67. Margaret Butler, fl. 1529-42, d. by 1551.
> 72. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1537-41.
> 73. Gormliath ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> 76. Sir Gerald MacShane Fitzgerald, d. 1533/4; of Cloncurry,
> Blackwood and Ballyshannon Castle, Co. Kildare.
> 77. Grainne ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
> 78. Sir Thomas Eustace, 1st Viscount Baltinglass, 1st Baron
> Kilcullen, c. 1480-1549.
> 79. Margaret Talbot.
> 80. James Dillon, an Prior Mor (the Great Prior), fl. 1500-1550;
> of Ballynakill, Dillon's Country, Co. Westmeath; prior in
> commendam of St. John Baptist, Kilkenny West.
> 81. _____ Dowling.
> 84. Sir Richard Tuite, d. 1565; of Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
> 85. Ellen Barnewall.
> 86. Gerald (Garret Og) Fitzgerald, d. c. 1541; of Croboy, Co.
> Meath.
> 87. Marian St. Lawrence, fl. 1541.
> 92. Sir Ulikc Burke (Uilleag na-gCeann, Ulick of the Heads), Lord
> of Clanricarde, 1st Earl of Clanricarde, 1st Baron Dunkellin, d.
> 1544.
> 93. Grainne ni Cearbhaill (O'Carroll).
> 94. Sir Donnchadh Mor (Donough the Fat) O'Brien, 2d Earl of
> Thomond, 1st Baron Ibracken, d. 1553.
> 95. Ellen Butler, c. 1520-1597.
> 100. Ferganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy), fl. 1558; of Ballyboy,
> Co. Offaly.
> 101. Sadhbh ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> 104. Thomas Fitzgerald, d. 1553; of Lackagh and Norraghbegg, Co.
> Kildare.
> 105. Eleanor Delahide.
> 106. The Most Rev. Edmund Butler, O.S. Trin., d. 1551; prior in
> commendam of Athassel, Co. Tipperary; Archbishop of Cashel,
> 1525-51.
> 112. James Og Maccochlain, d. 1540; of Feddan Castle, Co. Offaly.
> 116. Ruaidhri O'Maonaigh (O'Mooney), fl. 1558; of Eskercastle, Co.
> Offaly.
> 120. Sir Robert Dillon, c. 1500-1580, of Newtown near Trim, Co.
> Westmeath, and Dublin; Attorney General of Ireland; Justice of the
> Court of Queen's Bench; Chief Justice of the Court of Common
> Pleas, 1559-80.
> 121. Genet Barnewall.
> 122. Stephen Cashell, fl. 1538, d. 1564; of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
> 123. Margaret St. Lawrence.
>
> 128. Maolruanaidh Mor O'Carroll. Lord of Ely O'Carroll, d. 1532.
> 129. _____ ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
> 132. Brian na-Luireach (Brian of the Shirts of Mail) Mac Giolla
> Phadraig (MacGillapatrick), Lord of Upper Ossory, d. c. 1511.
> 133. Noirin (Honora) ni Mordha (O'More).
> 134. Sir Piers Ruadh (the Red) Butler, 8th Earl of Ormonde, 1st
> Earl of Ossory, c. 1467-1539.
> 135. Margaret Fitzgerald, fl. 1485, d. 1542.
> 144. Tadhg MacLaighneach O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1475.
> 145. Ellin Le Poer.
> 146. Cathaoir O'Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley), Lord of
> Offaly, killed 1511.
> 142. Sir John (Shane) Fitzgerald, d. 1466; of Cloncurry, Co.
> Kildare.
> 143. Fenole ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> 154. Gearalt Mac Murchadha Caomhanach (Gerald MacMorough
> Kavanagh), constable of Carlow Castle, 1495.
> 156. Sir Richard fitzEustace, fl. 1479-1500; of Harristown Castle,
> Co. Kildare.
> 157. Anne FitzEustace.
> 158. Sir Peter Talbot, d. 1529; lord of Malahide, Co. Dublin.
> 159. Catherine Fitzgerald.
> 160. Sir Gerald (Garret) Dillon, of Dunimony Castle, Co.
> Westmeath; fl. 1532.
> 161. _____ Fitzgerald.
> 168. Sir Edward Tuite, 1467-1531, of Monylea, Co. Westmeath.
> 169. Margaret Fitzgerald.
> 172. Same as no. 76.
> 173. Katherine Plunkett.
> 174. Sir Nicholas St. Lawrence, 3d Baron Howth, fl. 1478, d, 1526.
> 175. Alice Fitzsimons.
> 184. Richard Mor Burke, Lord of Clanricarde, d. 1530.
> 185. _____ ni Madain (O'Madden).
> 186. Same as no. 128.
> 187. _____ ni Ceinedigh Fionn (O'Kennedy Finn).
> 188. Conchobhair (Conor) O'Brien, King of Thomond, d. 1539.
> 189. Margaret (or Annabel) Burke, d. by 1539.
> 190-191. same as nos. 134-135.
> 200. Dohnaill O'Maolmuaidh (Donal O'Molloy), of Co. Offaly.
> 208. Sir Mauricce Fitzgerald, killed 1520; of Lackagh, Co.
> Kildare; Lord Deputy of Ireland, 1519-20.
> 209. Anne FitzEustace.
> 210. Sir James Delahide, of Moyclare Castle, Co. Kildare.
> 211. Rose Hussey.
> 212. same as no. 134.
> 213. _____Hackett.
> 224. James MacCochlain, killed v.p. 1510; prior of the monastery
> of Gallen, Co. Offaly.
> 232. Eoghan O'Maonaigh (Owen O'Mooney).
> 240. James Dillon, fl. 1477-79, d. by 1507; of Monktown and
> Riverston, Co. Meath; First Baron of the Irish Exchequer.
> 241. Elizabeth Bathe.
> 242. Edward Barnewall, d. 1511; of Crickstown Castle and
> Kilmessan, Co. Meath; Chancellor of the Exchequer.
> 243. Elizabeth Plunkett.
> 244. Leonard Cashell, of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
> 246. Sir Christopher St. Lawrence, 4th Baron Howth, c. 1482-1542,
> of Howth, Co. Dublin.
> 247. Anne Bermingham, heiress of Baldongan Castle, etc., Co.
> Dublin.

Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 13:45:24 UTC+1, Olivier a écrit :
> Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 1:54:13 AM UTC, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:56:23 PM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:06:36 PM UTC, nathan...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > There is a definitely a list of the "gateway ancestors" that are supposedly linked back to Charlemagne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.charlemagne.org/Gateway.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I cannot vouch for the credibility of this list, or even this society in general.
> > > > > > So caveat emptor.
> > > > > Thanks for the shout out Will. I inherited the list and now serve as the Order's genealogist. I haven't had a chance to review all the lines listed, but have worked through many of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nathan
> > > > It would be useful to have their born and death dates alongside the names to help id, as many of them
> > > > are quite common. I was interested in Dr Charles Carroll; is he is the Dr Charles [d1755] who emigrated
> > > > from Ireland in 1715, and went on to establish his family at Mount Clare Md? I'm not sure but it seemed
> > > > that both his sons died childless, if so, any descendants could only come from his daughter Mary Clare
> > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > >
> > > Joe Cook
> > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > 1. Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757, of Clonlisk, Co. Offaly,
> > Ireland, and Annapolis, Md., where he settled c. 1712.
> >
> > 2. Col.Charles Carroll, b. c. 1635, d. by 1712; of Clonlisk.
> > 3. Clare Dunne (Clara ni Duinn, O'Duinn), fl. 1691-1712.
> >
> > 4. John O'Carroll, b. 1596, fl. 1663, of Clonlisk Castle; last
> > recognized Lord or Chief of Ely O'Carroll.
> > 5. Mary Dillon, fl. 1631-63.
> > 6. Charles Dunne (O'Duinn), c. 1620-1681, of Brittas, Co. Leix.
> > 7. Margaret Coghlan (ni Cochlain, MacCoghlan).
> >
> > 8. Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll, killed 1595; of Tewriske, Co.
> > Offaly.
> > 9. Margaret ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
> > 10. Sir Lucas Dillon, fl. l612-53, d. by 1659; of Loughglynn and
> > Ballymacmorough, Co. Roscommon; member of the Supreme Council of
> > the Irish Catholic (Kilkenny) Confderation.
> > 11. Jane Moore, fl. 1659.
> > 12. Barnaby Dunne (Brian Og O'Duinn), c. 1593-1661, of Brittas,
> > Co. Laois.
> > 13. _____ Fitzgerald.
> > 14. Toirdhealbach MacCochlain (Terence Coghlan, MacCoghlan), fl.
> > 1523, d. 1653; of Kilcolgan Castle, Rachra Castle, etc., Co.
> > Offaly.
> > 15. Mary Dillon, fl. 1635-65.
> >
> > 16. Tadhg O'Carroll, fl. 1568, d. by 1580; of Lemyvanan (Leap)
> > Castle, Co. Offaly.
> > 17. "a Galway lady."
> > 18. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, Co. Laois, d. 1606/7.
> > 19. Elizabeth Fitzgerald.
> > 20. Sir Theobald Dillon, 1st Viscount Dillon of Costello-Gallen,
> > fl. 1582, d. 1624.
> > 21. Eleanor Tuite, d. 1638.
> > 22. Sir John Moore, fl. 1560, d. 1631; of Brees, Co. Mayo; Cloghan
> > Castle, Co. Offaly, etc.; Clerk of the Crown for Coinnaught.
> > 23. Mary Burke, d. 1624.
> > 24. Brian O'Duinn, d. 1614; of Brittas, Co. Laois.
> > 25. _____ ni Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy).
> > 26. James Fitzgerald, d. 1602; of Kilrush and Dunmorughell, Co.
> > Kildare.
> > 27. _____ ni Duinn (O'Duinn).
> > 28. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1591, d. 1642; of Kincora Castle,
> > Co. Offaly; Chief of the Sliocht (sept) Fearghaill MacCochlain.
> > 29. Meadhg ni Maonaigh (Maud O'Mooney).
> > 30. Robert Dillon, b. c. 1575, fl. 1641; of Cannerstown Castle,
> > Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
> > 31. Margaret Dillon.
> >
> > 32. Sir William Odhar O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed
> > 1581.
> > 33. Sadhbh ni Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick), fl.
> > 1568.
> > 36. Tadhg Riabhach (Fuscus, the Swarthy) O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan,
> > fl. 1540-72.
> > 37. _____ ni Muiris (MacMorish).
> > 38. James Fitzgerald, fl. 1520-61, d. by 1568; of Ballyshannon
> > Castle and Blackwood, Co. Kildare.
> > 39. Katherine Eustace.
> > 40. Thomas Maol (the Bald) Dillon, fl. 1535; of Ballynakill,
> > Dillon's country, Co. Westmeath.
> > 42. William Buidhe (the Yellow-Haired) Tuite, fl. 1572-88; of
> > Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
> > 43. Margaret Fitzgerald.
> > 46. Sir Richard Burke, 2d Earl of Clanricarde, 2d Baron Dunkellin,
> > c. 1530-1582.
> > 47. Margaret O'Brien, d. 1568.
> > 48-49. same as nos. 18-19.
> > 50. Cathaoir MacFerganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (Cahir MacFirr O'Molloy),
> > of Ballyboy, Co. Offaly.
> > 52. Sir Maurice Fitzgerald, c. 1526-1575, of Lackagh and
> > Norraghbegg, Co. Kildare.
> > 53. Margaret Butler.
> > 54-55. same as nos. 18-19.
> > 56. James Og MacCochlain, fl. 1540-57; of Feddan and Kincora, Co.
> > Offaly.
> > 57. Sile ni Diomusaigh (O'Dempsey).
> > 58. Sean O'Maonaigh (John O'Mooney), of Eskercastle, Co. Offaly.
> > 60. Thomas Dillon, d. 1593; of Arnacrany and Kilmackeron, Co.
> > Westmeath; Chamberlain of the Irish Exchequer.
> > 61. Margaret Cashell, fl. 1581-88.
> > 62-63. same as nos. 20-21.
> >
> > 64. Ferganainm O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll, killed 1541.
> > 66. Sir Brian Mac Giolla Phadraig (MacGillapatrick, Fitzpatrick),
> > Lord of Upper Ossory, 1st Baron Upper Ossory, fl. 1511, d. 1575.
> > 67. Margaret Butler, fl. 1529-42, d. by 1551.
> > 72. Tadhg Og O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1537-41.
> > 73. Gormliath ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> > 76. Sir Gerald MacShane Fitzgerald, d. 1533/4; of Cloncurry,
> > Blackwood and Ballyshannon Castle, Co. Kildare.
> > 77. Grainne ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
> > 78. Sir Thomas Eustace, 1st Viscount Baltinglass, 1st Baron
> > Kilcullen, c. 1480-1549.
> > 79. Margaret Talbot.
> > 80. James Dillon, an Prior Mor (the Great Prior), fl. 1500-1550;
> > of Ballynakill, Dillon's Country, Co. Westmeath; prior in
> > commendam of St. John Baptist, Kilkenny West.
> > 81. _____ Dowling.
> > 84. Sir Richard Tuite, d. 1565; of Tuitestown, Co. Westmeath.
> > 85. Ellen Barnewall.
> > 86. Gerald (Garret Og) Fitzgerald, d. c. 1541; of Croboy, Co.
> > Meath.
> > 87. Marian St. Lawrence, fl. 1541.
> > 92. Sir Ulikc Burke (Uilleag na-gCeann, Ulick of the Heads), Lord
> > of Clanricarde, 1st Earl of Clanricarde, 1st Baron Dunkellin, d.
> > 1544.
> > 93. Grainne ni Cearbhaill (O'Carroll).
> > 94. Sir Donnchadh Mor (Donough the Fat) O'Brien, 2d Earl of
> > Thomond, 1st Baron Ibracken, d. 1553.
> > 95. Ellen Butler, c. 1520-1597.
> > 100. Ferganainm O'Maolmhuaidh (O'Molloy), fl. 1558; of Ballyboy,
> > Co. Offaly.
> > 101. Sadhbh ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> > 104. Thomas Fitzgerald, d. 1553; of Lackagh and Norraghbegg, Co.
> > Kildare.
> > 105. Eleanor Delahide.
> > 106. The Most Rev. Edmund Butler, O.S. Trin., d. 1551; prior in
> > commendam of Athassel, Co. Tipperary; Archbishop of Cashel,
> > 1525-51.
> > 112. James Og Maccochlain, d. 1540; of Feddan Castle, Co. Offaly.
> > 116. Ruaidhri O'Maonaigh (O'Mooney), fl. 1558; of Eskercastle, Co.
> > Offaly.
> > 120. Sir Robert Dillon, c. 1500-1580, of Newtown near Trim, Co.
> > Westmeath, and Dublin; Attorney General of Ireland; Justice of the
> > Court of Queen's Bench; Chief Justice of the Court of Common
> > Pleas, 1559-80.
> > 121. Genet Barnewall.
> > 122. Stephen Cashell, fl. 1538, d. 1564; of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
> > 123. Margaret St. Lawrence.
> >
> > 128. Maolruanaidh Mor O'Carroll. Lord of Ely O'Carroll, d. 1532.
> > 129. _____ ni Murchadha Caomhanach (MacMorough Kavanagh).
> > 132. Brian na-Luireach (Brian of the Shirts of Mail) Mac Giolla
> > Phadraig (MacGillapatrick), Lord of Upper Ossory, d. c. 1511.
> > 133. Noirin (Honora) ni Mordha (O'More).
> > 134. Sir Piers Ruadh (the Red) Butler, 8th Earl of Ormonde, 1st
> > Earl of Ossory, c. 1467-1539.
> > 135. Margaret Fitzgerald, fl. 1485, d. 1542.
> > 144. Tadhg MacLaighneach O'Duinn, Lord of Iregan, fl. 1475.
> > 145. Ellin Le Poer.
> > 146. Cathaoir O'Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley), Lord of
> > Offaly, killed 1511.
> > 142. Sir John (Shane) Fitzgerald, d. 1466; of Cloncurry, Co.
> > Kildare.
> > 143. Fenole ni Conchobhair Failghe (O'Conor Faley).
> > 154. Gearalt Mac Murchadha Caomhanach (Gerald MacMorough
> > Kavanagh), constable of Carlow Castle, 1495.
> > 156. Sir Richard fitzEustace, fl. 1479-1500; of Harristown Castle,
> > Co. Kildare.
> > 157. Anne FitzEustace.
> > 158. Sir Peter Talbot, d. 1529; lord of Malahide, Co. Dublin.
> > 159. Catherine Fitzgerald.
> > 160. Sir Gerald (Garret) Dillon, of Dunimony Castle, Co.
> > Westmeath; fl. 1532.
> > 161. _____ Fitzgerald.
> > 168. Sir Edward Tuite, 1467-1531, of Monylea, Co. Westmeath.
> > 169. Margaret Fitzgerald.
> > 172. Same as no. 76.
> > 173. Katherine Plunkett.
> > 174. Sir Nicholas St. Lawrence, 3d Baron Howth, fl. 1478, d, 1526.
> > 175. Alice Fitzsimons.
> > 184. Richard Mor Burke, Lord of Clanricarde, d. 1530.
> > 185. _____ ni Madain (O'Madden).
> > 186. Same as no. 128.
> > 187. _____ ni Ceinedigh Fionn (O'Kennedy Finn).
> > 188. Conchobhair (Conor) O'Brien, King of Thomond, d. 1539.
> > 189. Margaret (or Annabel) Burke, d. by 1539.
> > 190-191. same as nos. 134-135.
> > 200. Dohnaill O'Maolmuaidh (Donal O'Molloy), of Co. Offaly.
> > 208. Sir Mauricce Fitzgerald, killed 1520; of Lackagh, Co.
> > Kildare; Lord Deputy of Ireland, 1519-20.
> > 209. Anne FitzEustace.
> > 210. Sir James Delahide, of Moyclare Castle, Co. Kildare.
> > 211. Rose Hussey.
> > 212. same as no. 134.
> > 213. _____Hackett.
> > 224. James MacCochlain, killed v.p. 1510; prior of the monastery
> > of Gallen, Co. Offaly.
> > 232. Eoghan O'Maonaigh (Owen O'Mooney).
> > 240. James Dillon, fl. 1477-79, d. by 1507; of Monktown and
> > Riverston, Co. Meath; First Baron of the Irish Exchequer.
> > 241. Elizabeth Bathe.
> > 242. Edward Barnewall, d. 1511; of Crickstown Castle and
> > Kilmessan, Co. Meath; Chancellor of the Exchequer.
> > 243. Elizabeth Plunkett.
> > 244. Leonard Cashell, of Dundalk, Co. Louth.
> > 246. Sir Christopher St. Lawrence, 4th Baron Howth, c. 1482-1542,
> > of Howth, Co. Dublin.
> > 247. Anne Bermingham, heiress of Baldongan Castle, etc., Co.
> > Dublin.
> Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> |
> Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> |
> Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> |
> Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907
> |
> Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> & Ne de Narbonne
> |
> Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960
> |
> Adélaïde d'Anjou ca 946-1026
> &ca 984 Guillaume de Provence, comte d'Arles ca 950-993/
> |
> Constance d'Arles 987..989-1032
> &ca 1003 Robert II le Pieux, roi des Francs 972-1031
> |
> Henri I, roi des Francs 1008-1060
> &1051 Anna Iaroslavna (Rurikides) ca 1032-1075/
> |
> Hugues, comte de Vermandois 1057-1102
> &1077 Adélaïde, comtesse de Vermandois ca 1065-1120..1123
> |
> Élisabeth (Capétiens) 1085-1131
> &1118 William, comte de Warenne 1070/-1138
> |
> Reginald de Warenne, Lord of Mortemer †1178/
> & Adeliza de Wormegay, Lady of Wormegay †1179/
> |
> William de Warenne, Lord of Wormegay †1208/1209
> & Béatrice de Pierrepont
> |
> Beatrice de Warenne †/1214
> & Hubert de Burgh, Earl of Kent †1243
> |
> John de Burgh †1274
> &ca 1227 Hawise de Lanvallay †/1249
> |
> Margaret de Burgh †1304
> &/1281 Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster ca 1259-1326
> |
Joan de Burgh †1359
&1312 Thomas FitzGerald, Earl of Kildare †1328
|
Click here to read the complete article

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, Olivier wrote:
> Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > >
> > > Joe Cook
> > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> >
> > Mike
<snip>

> Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> |
> Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> |
> Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> |
> Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907

very good of you to post this descent, but I havnt seen this daughter mentioned before.
AIUI, Charles had 4 daughters by his 1st wife: Judith, Hildegarde, Ermintrude & Gisela

> |
> Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> & Ne de Narbonne
> |
> Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960

I thought Fulks wife was Roscille de Loches

Mike

> |
> Adélaïde d'Anjou ca 946-1026
> &ca 984 Guillaume de Provence, comte d'Arles ca 950-993/
> |
> Constance d'Arles 987..989-1032
> &ca 1003 Robert II le Pieux, roi des Francs 972-1031
> |
> Henri I, roi des Francs 1008-1060
> &1051 Anna Iaroslavna (Rurikides) ca 1032-1075/
> |
> Hugues, comte de Vermandois 1057-1102
> &1077 Adélaïde, comtesse de Vermandois ca 1065-1120..1123
> |
> Élisabeth (Capétiens) 1085-1131
> &1118 William, comte de Warenne 1070/-1138
> |
> Reginald de Warenne, Lord of Mortemer †1178/
> & Adeliza de Wormegay, Lady of Wormegay †1179/
> |
> William de Warenne, Lord of Wormegay †1208/1209
> & Béatrice de Pierrepont
> |
> Beatrice de Warenne †/1214
> & Hubert de Burgh, Earl of Kent †1243
> |
> John de Burgh †1274
> &ca 1227 Hawise de Lanvallay †/1249
> |
> Margaret de Burgh †1304
> &/1281 Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster ca 1259-1326
> |
> Joan de Burgh †1359
> &1329 John le Neveu Darcy, Lord of Knayth †1347
> |
> Anne Darcy †1389
> &1346 James Butler, Earl of Ormond 1331-1382
> |
> Joan Butler †1383
> & Tadhg Aibhle O'Carroll †1407
> |
> Maolruanaidh na feasóige O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll †1443
> & Bibiana O'Dempsey †1490/
> |
> John O'Carroll
> & Ne Macnamara
> |
> Mulroney O'Carroll †1532
> & Ne Kavanagh
> |
> Ferganainm O'Carroll †1541
> & Elizabeth Fitzgerald
> |
> William O'Carroll †1581
> & Sabine Fitzpatrick
> |
> Tadhg O'Carroll
> & x x
> |
> Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll †1595
> & Margaret O'Duinn
> |
> John O'Carroll
> & Mary Dillon
> |
> Charles O'Carroll †1695
> & Clare Dunne
> |
> Charles Carroll 1691-1755

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 10:30:33 AM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, Olivier wrote:
> > Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > > >
> > > > Joe Cook
> > > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> > >
> > > Mike
> <snip>
> > Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> > &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> > |
> > Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> > &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> > |
> > Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> > &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> > |
> > Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> > &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907
> very good of you to post this descent, but I havnt seen this daughter mentioned before.
> AIUI, Charles had 4 daughters by his 1st wife: Judith, Hildegarde, Ermintrude & Gisela
> > |
> > Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> > & Ne de Narbonne
> > |
> > Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> > &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960
> I thought Fulks wife was Roscille de Loches
>
> Mike
> > |
> > Adélaïde d'Anjou ca 946-1026
> > &ca 984 Guillaume de Provence, comte d'Arles ca 950-993/
> > |
> > Constance d'Arles 987..989-1032
> > &ca 1003 Robert II le Pieux, roi des Francs 972-1031
> > |
> > Henri I, roi des Francs 1008-1060
> > &1051 Anna Iaroslavna (Rurikides) ca 1032-1075/
> > |
> > Hugues, comte de Vermandois 1057-1102
> > &1077 Adélaïde, comtesse de Vermandois ca 1065-1120..1123
> > |
> > Élisabeth (Capétiens) 1085-1131
> > &1118 William, comte de Warenne 1070/-1138
> > |
> > Reginald de Warenne, Lord of Mortemer †1178/
> > & Adeliza de Wormegay, Lady of Wormegay †1179/
> > |
> > William de Warenne, Lord of Wormegay †1208/1209
> > & Béatrice de Pierrepont
> > |
> > Beatrice de Warenne †/1214
> > & Hubert de Burgh, Earl of Kent †1243
> > |
> > John de Burgh †1274
> > &ca 1227 Hawise de Lanvallay †/1249
> > |
> > Margaret de Burgh †1304
> > &/1281 Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster ca 1259-1326
> > |
> > Joan de Burgh †1359
> > &1329 John le Neveu Darcy, Lord of Knayth †1347
> > |
> > Anne Darcy †1389
> > &1346 James Butler, Earl of Ormond 1331-1382
> > |
> > Joan Butler †1383
> > & Tadhg Aibhle O'Carroll †1407
> > |
> > Maolruanaidh na feasóige O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll †1443
> > & Bibiana O'Dempsey †1490/
> > |
> > John O'Carroll
> > & Ne Macnamara
> > |
> > Mulroney O'Carroll †1532
> > & Ne Kavanagh
> > |
> > Ferganainm O'Carroll †1541
> > & Elizabeth Fitzgerald
> > |
> > William O'Carroll †1581
> > & Sabine Fitzpatrick
> > |
> > Tadhg O'Carroll
> > & x x
> > |
> > Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll †1595
> > & Margaret O'Duinn
> > |
> > John O'Carroll
> > & Mary Dillon
> > |
> > Charles O'Carroll †1695
> > & Clare Dunne
> > |
> > Charles Carroll 1691-1755

If this is one of one of my potential lines
Johanna Richards 1621 (w/o Ens. John Spring, 1678), MA
Mary Colburn, 1650, MA
Nathaniel Colburn, 1589, Eng & MA
Benjamin Colburn, 1589
Betha Boleyn, ?-1694
Samuel Boleyn, 1617
Samuel Boleyn, 1591
George Boleyn, 1537
George Boleyn, 1504
Thomas Boleyn
Margaret Butler
Thomas 7th Butler
James 4th Butler
James 3rd Butler
James 2nd Butler
Eleanor de Bohun >
Elizabeth Plantagenet >
Edward I Longshanks, King of England

Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 16:30:33 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, Olivier wrote:
> > Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > > >
> > > > Joe Cook
> > > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> > >
> > > Mike
> <snip>
> > Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> > &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> > |
> > Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> > &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> > |
> > Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> > &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> > |
> > Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> > &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907
> very good of you to post this descent, but I havnt seen this daughter mentioned before.
> AIUI, Charles had 4 daughters by his 1st wife: Judith, Hildegarde, Ermintrude & Gisela
> > |
> > Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> > & Ne de Narbonne
> > |
> > Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> > &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960
> I thought Fulks wife was Roscille de Loches
>
> Mike

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ANJOU,%20MAINE.htm#_ftnref61

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 8:11:40 AM UTC-8, dahe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 10:30:33 AM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, Olivier wrote:
> > > Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > > > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Cook
> > > > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > > > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > > > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > > > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > > > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > > > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > <snip>
> > > Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> > > &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> > > |
> > > Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> > > &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> > > |
> > > Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> > > &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> > > |
> > > Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> > > &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907
> > very good of you to post this descent, but I havnt seen this daughter mentioned before.
> > AIUI, Charles had 4 daughters by his 1st wife: Judith, Hildegarde, Ermintrude & Gisela
> > > |
> > > Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> > > & Ne de Narbonne
> > > |
> > > Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> > > &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960
> > I thought Fulks wife was Roscille de Loches
> >
> > Mike
> > > |
> > > Adélaïde d'Anjou ca 946-1026
> > > &ca 984 Guillaume de Provence, comte d'Arles ca 950-993/
> > > |
> > > Constance d'Arles 987..989-1032
> > > &ca 1003 Robert II le Pieux, roi des Francs 972-1031
> > > |
> > > Henri I, roi des Francs 1008-1060
> > > &1051 Anna Iaroslavna (Rurikides) ca 1032-1075/
> > > |
> > > Hugues, comte de Vermandois 1057-1102
> > > &1077 Adélaïde, comtesse de Vermandois ca 1065-1120..1123
> > > |
> > > Élisabeth (Capétiens) 1085-1131
> > > &1118 William, comte de Warenne 1070/-1138
> > > |
> > > Reginald de Warenne, Lord of Mortemer †1178/
> > > & Adeliza de Wormegay, Lady of Wormegay †1179/
> > > |
> > > William de Warenne, Lord of Wormegay †1208/1209
> > > & Béatrice de Pierrepont
> > > |
> > > Beatrice de Warenne †/1214
> > > & Hubert de Burgh, Earl of Kent †1243
> > > |
> > > John de Burgh †1274
> > > &ca 1227 Hawise de Lanvallay †/1249
> > > |
> > > Margaret de Burgh †1304
> > > &/1281 Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster ca 1259-1326
> > > |
> > > Joan de Burgh †1359
> > > &1329 John le Neveu Darcy, Lord of Knayth †1347
> > > |
> > > Anne Darcy †1389
> > > &1346 James Butler, Earl of Ormond 1331-1382
> > > |
> > > Joan Butler †1383
> > > & Tadhg Aibhle O'Carroll †1407
> > > |
> > > Maolruanaidh na feasóige O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll †1443
> > > & Bibiana O'Dempsey †1490/
> > > |
> > > John O'Carroll
> > > & Ne Macnamara
> > > |
> > > Mulroney O'Carroll †1532
> > > & Ne Kavanagh
> > > |
> > > Ferganainm O'Carroll †1541
> > > & Elizabeth Fitzgerald
> > > |
> > > William O'Carroll †1581
> > > & Sabine Fitzpatrick
> > > |
> > > Tadhg O'Carroll
> > > & x x
> > > |
> > > Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll †1595
> > > & Margaret O'Duinn
> > > |
> > > John O'Carroll
> > > & Mary Dillon
> > > |
> > > Charles O'Carroll †1695
> > > & Clare Dunne
> > > |
> > > Charles Carroll 1691-1755
> If this is one of one of my potential lines
> Johanna Richards 1621 (w/o Ens. John Spring, 1678), MA
> Mary Colburn, 1650, MA
> Nathaniel Colburn, 1589, Eng & MA
> Benjamin Colburn, 1589
> Betha Boleyn, ?-1694
> Samuel Boleyn, 1617
> Samuel Boleyn, 1591
> George Boleyn, 1537
> George Boleyn, 1504
> Thomas Boleyn
> Margaret Butler
> Thomas 7th Butler
> James 4th Butler
> James 3rd Butler
> James 2nd Butler
> Eleanor de Bohun >
> Elizabeth Plantagenet >
> Edward I Longshanks, King of England

The ancestry of Nathaniel Colburn, who was baptized in 1611,
not 1589, was documented back in 1999. He was a son of
Leonard Colborne of Woolverstone, Suffolk. The rest of the lineage
posted here looks like undocumented rubbish.

If you rely on unsourced material on the internet,
you're going to fail every time.

Leslie

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 8:11:40 AM UTC-8, dahe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 10:30:33 AM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, Olivier wrote:
> > > Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > > > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Cook
> > > > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > > > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > > > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > > > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > > > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > > > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > <snip>

[unrelated line snipped]

> If this is one of one of my potential lines
> Johanna Richards 1621 (w/o Ens. John Spring, 1678), MA
> Mary Colburn, 1650, MA
> Nathaniel Colburn, 1589, Eng & MA
> Benjamin Colburn, 1589
> Betha Boleyn, ?-1694
> Samuel Boleyn, 1617
> Samuel Boleyn, 1591
> George Boleyn, 1537
> George Boleyn, 1504
> Thomas Boleyn
> Margaret Butler
> Thomas 7th Butler
> James 4th Butler
> James 3rd Butler
> James 2nd Butler
> Eleanor de Bohun >
> Elizabeth Plantagenet >
> Edward I Longshanks, King of England

Thomas Boleyn, son of Margaret Butler, is certainly Sir Thomas Boleyn, father of Queen Anne Boleyn. His son George was beheaded at roughly the same time as his sister the Queen - and is well-documented to have had no issue. so the Boleyns said to be descended from him are clearly garbage - or at least not related to the first George.

As Leslie Mahler said: "If you rely on unsourced material on the internet, you're going to fail every time."

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:56:34 AM UTC-8, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> A segunda-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 17:37:09 UTC, dahe...@gmail.com escreveu:
> > I'm not new to Genealogy, have been involved for 20+ years. Currently, I belong to about 15 Hereditary Societies, being an officer in a couple. Charlemagne has always evaded me as I have no relative on the approved Gateway List. My large group of ancestors were early settlers starting with the Mayflower (Bradford & Warren) all through the Eastern Coast. I'm posting a few potential New Gateway Ancestors and would welcome any thoughts or advice.. I probably have about 25+ more that could be considered. My Data Base in Reunion is quite large.
> >
> > Kenelm Winslow 1599-1672, England > Salem, MA,
> > Spouse: Elinor Worden 1598-1681, England > Marshfield, MA
> > Line: Edward > Kenelm > William > Thomas > Agnes Throckmorton
> >
> > Sarah Tracy, abt 1621-1708, Holland > Duxbury, MA
> > Spouse: George Partridge, 1605-1695. England > Duxbury, MA
> > Line: Tryphosa de Leigh > Anne Hungerford > Anthony > John > Anthony
> >
> > Honor Tucker, 1613-1684, England > Scituate, MA
> > Spouse: Cornet Robert Stetson,1615-1703, England > Scituate, MA
> > Line: John Tucker (Tooker) > John > Honer Erisey > Christina Grenville > Roger
> >
> > John Hudson, abt 1623-1688, England > Duxbury, MA
> > Spouse: Ann Rogers, 1634-1712, Scituate, MA > Marshfield, MA
> > Line: Ralph > Anne Tankard > Ralph > Anne Pullen > John > Richard > Ralph > Elizabeth Beckwith
> >
> > Mary Gurney, 1628-1658, England > Billerica, MA
> > Spouse: Daniel Shedd, 1620-1708, England > Billerica, MA
> > Line: John > Francis > Ellen Blennerhassett > Elizabeth Cornwallis
> >
> > Elizabeth Warren, 1629-1715, England > Groton, MA
> > Spouse: James Knapp, 1627-1696, England > Groton, MA
> > Line: John > John > John > Robert > John > Griffen de Warene & Margaret Corbet
> >
> > James Glass, 1620-1652, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > Spouse: Mary Ann Pontus, 1626-1690, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > Line: Mary de Cogan > Henry > Elizabeth Carye > Richard > William Carye & Mary Boleyne
> >
> > Thomas Clifton, 1606-1681, England > MA
> > Spouse: Mary Longothame, 1600-1687 England > MA
> > Line: Richard Clifton > George Clifton & Winfred Throld
> I checked all those on Wikitree and none appears to be substantiated.
> However, there is an upcoming article on a possible Henry II descent for Margery Olliver, mother of the Winslow brothers.

I ask again:

Can you provide more details on this "upcoming" article? What is your source for this information about an "upcoming article"?

On 17-Dec-21 11:45 PM, Olivier wrote:

<snip>

> Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> |
> Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> |
> Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> |
> Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907

I suggest that you junk (if online) or incinerate (if in print) wherever
you found these fictitious personages. Charles the Bald had no daughter
named Godehilde and there was no count of Maine ca 860-907 named
Godefroi. By his second marriage Charles had a daughter named Rothilde
who married count Roger, whose possession of Le Mans was briefly
interrupted when the city was entrusted to a count and royal constable
named Gauzlin (possibly twisted into the origin of your false Godefroi,
though certainly not of the long tenure ascribed to him).

> |
> Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> & Ne de Narbonne
> |
> Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960

Ditto for wherever (if not the same) you came across this imaginary
genealogy - Gerberge the wife of Fulco II of Anjou is the subject of
various conjectures, but her family origin remains unknown.

> Adélaïde d'Anjou ca 946-1026
> &ca 984 Guillaume de Provence, comte d'Arles ca 950-993/
> |
> Constance d'Arles 987..989-1032
> &ca 1003 Robert II le Pieux, roi des Francs 972-1031
> |
> Henri I, roi des Francs 1008-1060
> &1051 Anna Iaroslavna (Rurikides) ca 1032-1075/
> |
> Hugues, comte de Vermandois 1057-1102
> &1077 Adélaïde, comtesse de Vermandois ca 1065-1120..1123

Datings given in your lineage are not much more accurate than the
identifications - Hugues of Vermandois died of battle wounds at Tarsus
on 18 October 1101, not in the following year.

Peter Stewart

> |
> Élisabeth (Capétiens) 1085-1131
> &1118 William, comte de Warenne 1070/-1138
> |
> Reginald de Warenne, Lord of Mortemer †1178/
> & Adeliza de Wormegay, Lady of Wormegay †1179/
> |
> William de Warenne, Lord of Wormegay †1208/1209
> & Béatrice de Pierrepont
> |
> Beatrice de Warenne †/1214
> & Hubert de Burgh, Earl of Kent †1243
> |
> John de Burgh †1274
> &ca 1227 Hawise de Lanvallay †/1249
> |
> Margaret de Burgh †1304
> &/1281 Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster ca 1259-1326
> |
> Joan de Burgh †1359
> &1329 John le Neveu Darcy, Lord of Knayth †1347
> |
> Anne Darcy †1389
> &1346 James Butler, Earl of Ormond 1331-1382
> |
> Joan Butler †1383
> & Tadhg Aibhle O'Carroll †1407
> |
> Maolruanaidh na feasóige O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll †1443
> & Bibiana O'Dempsey †1490/
> |
> John O'Carroll
> & Ne Macnamara
> |
> Mulroney O'Carroll †1532
> & Ne Kavanagh
> |
> Ferganainm O'Carroll †1541
> & Elizabeth Fitzgerald
> |
> William O'Carroll †1581
> & Sabine Fitzpatrick
> |
> Tadhg O'Carroll
> & x x
> |
> Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll †1595
> & Margaret O'Duinn
> |
> John O'Carroll
> & Mary Dillon
> |
> Charles O'Carroll †1695
> & Clare Dunne
> |
> Charles Carroll 1691-1755

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 2:18:53 PM UTC-5, Leslie Mahler wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 8:11:40 AM UTC-8, dahe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 10:30:33 AM UTC-5, mike davis wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:45:24 PM UTC, Olivier wrote:
> > > > Le vendredi 17 décembre 2021 à 01:04:45 UTC+1, mike davis a écrit :
> > > > > > > who married [1747] Nicholas Macubbin of Annapolis. Does anyone know how Dr Charles was descended
> > > > > > > from Charlemagne?
> > > > > > Yes, Dr. Charles Carroll, c. 1691-1757
> > > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/O1YH9j6avRc/m/YLOJJ4igIXYJ
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe Cook
> > > > > Thanks for pointing out this line
> > > > > Assuming the original poster was correct,
> > > > > is the connection to Charlemagne via the Butlers or is there another link? I think Piers Butler [no 134]
> > > > > was descended from Edward I and he via Matilda of Flanders back to Judith to Charles the Bald etc.
> > > > > Butlers intermarried with many irish families so there must be many 000s of irish families around
> > > > > who can now claim descent from Charlemagne.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > <snip>
> > > > Charles I, empereur d'Occident 747-814
> > > > &771 Hildegarde, comtesse de Vintschgau 758-783
> > > > |
> > > > Louis, empereur d'Occident 778-840
> > > > &819 Judith von Bayern ca 800-843
> > > > |
> > > > Charles II, empereur d'Occident 823-877
> > > > &842 Ermentrude d'Orléans 830-869
> > > > |
> > > > Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> > > > &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907
> > > very good of you to post this descent, but I havnt seen this daughter mentioned before.
> > > AIUI, Charles had 4 daughters by his 1st wife: Judith, Hildegarde, Ermintrude & Gisela
> > > > |
> > > > Godefroi du Maine, comte du Gâtinais †/946
> > > > & Ne de Narbonne
> > > > |
> > > > Gerberge du Maine 915-953
> > > > &937 Foulques le Bon, comte d'Anjou 910-960
> > > I thought Fulks wife was Roscille de Loches
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > > |
> > > > Adélaïde d'Anjou ca 946-1026
> > > > &ca 984 Guillaume de Provence, comte d'Arles ca 950-993/
> > > > |
> > > > Constance d'Arles 987..989-1032
> > > > &ca 1003 Robert II le Pieux, roi des Francs 972-1031
> > > > |
> > > > Henri I, roi des Francs 1008-1060
> > > > &1051 Anna Iaroslavna (Rurikides) ca 1032-1075/
> > > > |
> > > > Hugues, comte de Vermandois 1057-1102
> > > > &1077 Adélaïde, comtesse de Vermandois ca 1065-1120..1123
> > > > |
> > > > Élisabeth (Capétiens) 1085-1131
> > > > &1118 William, comte de Warenne 1070/-1138
> > > > |
> > > > Reginald de Warenne, Lord of Mortemer †1178/
> > > > & Adeliza de Wormegay, Lady of Wormegay †1179/
> > > > |
> > > > William de Warenne, Lord of Wormegay †1208/1209
> > > > & Béatrice de Pierrepont
> > > > |
> > > > Beatrice de Warenne †/1214
> > > > & Hubert de Burgh, Earl of Kent †1243
> > > > |
> > > > John de Burgh †1274
> > > > &ca 1227 Hawise de Lanvallay †/1249
> > > > |
> > > > Margaret de Burgh †1304
> > > > &/1281 Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster ca 1259-1326
> > > > |
> > > > Joan de Burgh †1359
> > > > &1329 John le Neveu Darcy, Lord of Knayth †1347
> > > > |
> > > > Anne Darcy †1389
> > > > &1346 James Butler, Earl of Ormond 1331-1382
> > > > |
> > > > Joan Butler †1383
> > > > & Tadhg Aibhle O'Carroll †1407
> > > > |
> > > > Maolruanaidh na feasóige O'Carroll, Lord of Ely O'Carroll †1443
> > > > & Bibiana O'Dempsey †1490/
> > > > |
> > > > John O'Carroll
> > > > & Ne Macnamara
> > > > |
> > > > Mulroney O'Carroll †1532
> > > > & Ne Kavanagh
> > > > |
> > > > Ferganainm O'Carroll †1541
> > > > & Elizabeth Fitzgerald
> > > > |
> > > > William O'Carroll †1581
> > > > & Sabine Fitzpatrick
> > > > |
> > > > Tadhg O'Carroll
> > > > & x x
> > > > |
> > > > Maolruanaidh MacTadhg O'Carroll †1595
> > > > & Margaret O'Duinn
> > > > |
> > > > John O'Carroll
> > > > & Mary Dillon
> > > > |
> > > > Charles O'Carroll †1695
> > > > & Clare Dunne
> > > > |
> > > > Charles Carroll 1691-1755
> > If this is one of one of my potential lines
> > Johanna Richards 1621 (w/o Ens. John Spring, 1678), MA
> > Mary Colburn, 1650, MA
> > Nathaniel Colburn, 1589, Eng & MA
> > Benjamin Colburn, 1589
> > Betha Boleyn, ?-1694
> > Samuel Boleyn, 1617
> > Samuel Boleyn, 1591
> > George Boleyn, 1537
> > George Boleyn, 1504
> > Thomas Boleyn
> > Margaret Butler
> > Thomas 7th Butler
> > James 4th Butler
> > James 3rd Butler
> > James 2nd Butler
> > Eleanor de Bohun >
> > Elizabeth Plantagenet >
> > Edward I Longshanks, King of England
> The ancestry of Nathaniel Colburn, who was baptized in 1611,
> not 1589, was documented back in 1999. He was a son of
> Leonard Colborne of Woolverstone, Suffolk. The rest of the lineage
> posted here looks like undocumented rubbish.
>
> If you rely on unsourced material on the internet,
> you're going to fail every time.
>
> Leslie

Do you have Nathaniel’s line? I’m certain about his daughter Mary’s line to me. She married John Richards, their daughter Johanna married John Spring.

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/25287/images/dvm_GenMono006566-00045-0?pId=80

What about the Whitney line I have a John Whitney 1588/Eleanor Arnold with two sons John and Joshua

A quinta-feira, 16 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 01:21:25 UTC, jhigg...@yahoo.com escreveu:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:56:34 AM UTC-8, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > A segunda-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 17:37:09 UTC, dahe...@gmail.com escreveu:
> > > I'm not new to Genealogy, have been involved for 20+ years. Currently, I belong to about 15 Hereditary Societies, being an officer in a couple. Charlemagne has always evaded me as I have no relative on the approved Gateway List. My large group of ancestors were early settlers starting with the Mayflower (Bradford & Warren) all through the Eastern Coast. I'm posting a few potential New Gateway Ancestors and would welcome any thoughts or advice. I probably have about 25+ more that could be considered. My Data Base in Reunion is quite large.
> > >
> > > Kenelm Winslow 1599-1672, England > Salem, MA,
> > > Spouse: Elinor Worden 1598-1681, England > Marshfield, MA
> > > Line: Edward > Kenelm > William > Thomas > Agnes Throckmorton
> > >
> > > Sarah Tracy, abt 1621-1708, Holland > Duxbury, MA
> > > Spouse: George Partridge, 1605-1695. England > Duxbury, MA
> > > Line: Tryphosa de Leigh > Anne Hungerford > Anthony > John > Anthony
> > >
> > > Honor Tucker, 1613-1684, England > Scituate, MA
> > > Spouse: Cornet Robert Stetson,1615-1703, England > Scituate, MA
> > > Line: John Tucker (Tooker) > John > Honer Erisey > Christina Grenville > Roger
> > >
> > > John Hudson, abt 1623-1688, England > Duxbury, MA
> > > Spouse: Ann Rogers, 1634-1712, Scituate, MA > Marshfield, MA
> > > Line: Ralph > Anne Tankard > Ralph > Anne Pullen > John > Richard > Ralph > Elizabeth Beckwith
> > >
> > > Mary Gurney, 1628-1658, England > Billerica, MA
> > > Spouse: Daniel Shedd, 1620-1708, England > Billerica, MA
> > > Line: John > Francis > Ellen Blennerhassett > Elizabeth Cornwallis
> > >
> > > Elizabeth Warren, 1629-1715, England > Groton, MA
> > > Spouse: James Knapp, 1627-1696, England > Groton, MA
> > > Line: John > John > John > Robert > John > Griffen de Warene & Margaret Corbet
> > >
> > > James Glass, 1620-1652, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > > Spouse: Mary Ann Pontus, 1626-1690, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > > Line: Mary de Cogan > Henry > Elizabeth Carye > Richard > William Carye & Mary Boleyne
> > >
> > > Thomas Clifton, 1606-1681, England > MA
> > > Spouse: Mary Longothame, 1600-1687 England > MA
> > > Line: Richard Clifton > George Clifton & Winfred Throld
> > I checked all those on Wikitree and none appears to be substantiated.
> > However, there is an upcoming article on a possible Henry II descent for Margery Olliver, mother of the Winslow brothers.
> Can you provide more details on this "upcoming" article? What is your source for this information about an upcoming article?
Sorry. I hadn't noticed your reply. Martin Hollick informed me of this. It's by a friend of his who got a PhD in history and also loves genealogy. He wrote the article on Susannah Jackson White Winslow in 2018 in The American Genealogist. The upcoming article is presumably in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register, though

> > Godehilde (Carolingiens) 865
> > &ca 889 Godefroi, comte du Maine ca 860-907
> I suggest that you junk (if online) or incinerate (if in print) wherever
> you found these fictitious personages. Charles the Bald had no daughter
> named Godehilde and there was no count of Maine ca 860-907 named
> Godefroi. By his second marriage Charles had a daughter named Rothilde
> who married count Roger, whose possession of Le Mans was briefly
> interrupted when the city was entrusted to a count and royal constable
> named Gauzlin (possibly twisted into the origin of your false Godefroi,
> though certainly not of the long tenure ascribed to him).

Source : https://www.theses.fr/2010LEMA3010

This next George Bolyn 1537 is clearly meant to be this man

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900/Boleyn,_George_(d.1603)

There *is* a theory that he is a son of the prior George, as per this article.

On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 9:39:45 AM UTC-8, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> This next George Bolyn 1537 is clearly meant to be this man
>
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900/Boleyn,_George_(d.1603)
>
> There *is* a theory that he is a son of the prior George, as per this article.

Here is what CP (vol. 10 p. 142 note e) has to say about the article in the turn-of-the century edition of DNB cited above:

"The Dict. Nat. Biog. states that George Boleyn, Dean of Lichfield (d. 1603), was not improbably his son [referring to George Boleyn, Viscount Rochford], but the arguments for this affiliation are inconclusive."

Here is what the more recent [online] edition of ODNB says about this George Boleyn. The article from which this section is excerpted is dated 3 January 2008.

"Boleyn, George (d. 1603), dean of Lichfield, is often said to have been the son of Jane Boleyn, née Parker (d. 1542), and George Boleyn, Viscount Rochford, executed in 1536 on a charge of incest with his sister, Queen Anne Boleyn. In his will of 1603, George Boleyn refers to Sir William Knollys, grandson of Mary Boleyn, Queen Anne's sister, as his kinsman, but the fact that Rochford's inquisition post-mortem names Mary, rather than George, as his heir throws doubt on the supposition that George was his son, or at any rate on George's legitimacy. Considering the Boleyn family's difficult political position in the years after the queen's execution, it is perhaps not surprising that George's ancestry should have remained unacknowledged, and that he seems to have been bitter about the loss of his inheritance."

Draw your own conclusions... It would be useful to know what sources say about the descent from this George Boleyn - and what those sources say about the parentage of this George Boleyn.

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 5:01:43 PM UTC-8, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> A quinta-feira, 16 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 01:21:25 UTC, jhigg...@yahoo.com escreveu:
> > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:56:34 AM UTC-8, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > > A segunda-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 17:37:09 UTC, dahe....@gmail.com escreveu:
> > > > I'm not new to Genealogy, have been involved for 20+ years. Currently, I belong to about 15 Hereditary Societies, being an officer in a couple.. Charlemagne has always evaded me as I have no relative on the approved Gateway List. My large group of ancestors were early settlers starting with the Mayflower (Bradford & Warren) all through the Eastern Coast. I'm posting a few potential New Gateway Ancestors and would welcome any thoughts or advice. I probably have about 25+ more that could be considered. My Data Base in Reunion is quite large.
> > > >
> > > > Kenelm Winslow 1599-1672, England > Salem, MA,
> > > > Spouse: Elinor Worden 1598-1681, England > Marshfield, MA
> > > > Line: Edward > Kenelm > William > Thomas > Agnes Throckmorton
> > > >
> > > > Sarah Tracy, abt 1621-1708, Holland > Duxbury, MA
> > > > Spouse: George Partridge, 1605-1695. England > Duxbury, MA
> > > > Line: Tryphosa de Leigh > Anne Hungerford > Anthony > John > Anthony
> > > >
> > > > Honor Tucker, 1613-1684, England > Scituate, MA
> > > > Spouse: Cornet Robert Stetson,1615-1703, England > Scituate, MA
> > > > Line: John Tucker (Tooker) > John > Honer Erisey > Christina Grenville > Roger
> > > >
> > > > John Hudson, abt 1623-1688, England > Duxbury, MA
> > > > Spouse: Ann Rogers, 1634-1712, Scituate, MA > Marshfield, MA
> > > > Line: Ralph > Anne Tankard > Ralph > Anne Pullen > John > Richard > Ralph > Elizabeth Beckwith
> > > >
> > > > Mary Gurney, 1628-1658, England > Billerica, MA
> > > > Spouse: Daniel Shedd, 1620-1708, England > Billerica, MA
> > > > Line: John > Francis > Ellen Blennerhassett > Elizabeth Cornwallis
> > > >
> > > > Elizabeth Warren, 1629-1715, England > Groton, MA
> > > > Spouse: James Knapp, 1627-1696, England > Groton, MA
> > > > Line: John > John > John > Robert > John > Griffen de Warene & Margaret Corbet
> > > >
> > > > James Glass, 1620-1652, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > > > Spouse: Mary Ann Pontus, 1626-1690, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > > > Line: Mary de Cogan > Henry > Elizabeth Carye > Richard > William Carye & Mary Boleyne
> > > >
> > > > Thomas Clifton, 1606-1681, England > MA
> > > > Spouse: Mary Longothame, 1600-1687 England > MA
> > > > Line: Richard Clifton > George Clifton & Winfred Throld
> > > I checked all those on Wikitree and none appears to be substantiated.
> > > However, there is an upcoming article on a possible Henry II descent for Margery Olliver, mother of the Winslow brothers.
> > Can you provide more details on this "upcoming" article? What is your source for this information about an upcoming article?
> Sorry. I hadn't noticed your reply. Martin Hollick informed me of this. It's by a friend of his who got a PhD in history and also loves genealogy. He wrote the article on Susannah Jackson White Winslow in 2018 in The American Genealogist. The upcoming article is presumably in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register, though

Thanks for this information. However, I've checked the table of contents for each issue of TAG in 2018 and I can find no indication of an article regarding Susannah Jackson White Winslow. The table of contents for each of the issues of TAG for 2018 can be found at this website (each is a PDF):
https://americangenealogist.com/contents/recent-issues/

Can you help? Are you sure you've got the right magazine for the 2018 article?

On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 1:42:40 PM UTC-5, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 5:01:43 PM UTC-8, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > A quinta-feira, 16 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 01:21:25 UTC, jhigg...@yahoo.com escreveu:
> > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:56:34 AM UTC-8, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
> > > > A segunda-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2021 à(s) 17:37:09 UTC, dahe...@gmail.com escreveu:
> > > > > I'm not new to Genealogy, have been involved for 20+ years. Currently, I belong to about 15 Hereditary Societies, being an officer in a couple. Charlemagne has always evaded me as I have no relative on the approved Gateway List. My large group of ancestors were early settlers starting with the Mayflower (Bradford & Warren) all through the Eastern Coast. I'm posting a few potential New Gateway Ancestors and would welcome any thoughts or advice. I probably have about 25+ more that could be considered. My Data Base in Reunion is quite large.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kenelm Winslow 1599-1672, England > Salem, MA,
> > > > > Spouse: Elinor Worden 1598-1681, England > Marshfield, MA
> > > > > Line: Edward > Kenelm > William > Thomas > Agnes Throckmorton
> > > > >
> > > > > Sarah Tracy, abt 1621-1708, Holland > Duxbury, MA
> > > > > Spouse: George Partridge, 1605-1695. England > Duxbury, MA
> > > > > Line: Tryphosa de Leigh > Anne Hungerford > Anthony > John > Anthony
> > > > >
> > > > > Honor Tucker, 1613-1684, England > Scituate, MA
> > > > > Spouse: Cornet Robert Stetson,1615-1703, England > Scituate, MA
> > > > > Line: John Tucker (Tooker) > John > Honer Erisey > Christina Grenville > Roger
> > > > >
> > > > > John Hudson, abt 1623-1688, England > Duxbury, MA
> > > > > Spouse: Ann Rogers, 1634-1712, Scituate, MA > Marshfield, MA
> > > > > Line: Ralph > Anne Tankard > Ralph > Anne Pullen > John > Richard > Ralph > Elizabeth Beckwith
> > > > >
> > > > > Mary Gurney, 1628-1658, England > Billerica, MA
> > > > > Spouse: Daniel Shedd, 1620-1708, England > Billerica, MA
> > > > > Line: John > Francis > Ellen Blennerhassett > Elizabeth Cornwallis
> > > > >
> > > > > Elizabeth Warren, 1629-1715, England > Groton, MA
> > > > > Spouse: James Knapp, 1627-1696, England > Groton, MA
> > > > > Line: John > John > John > Robert > John > Griffen de Warene & Margaret Corbet
> > > > >
> > > > > James Glass, 1620-1652, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > > > > Spouse: Mary Ann Pontus, 1626-1690, Holland > Plymouth, MA
> > > > > Line: Mary de Cogan > Henry > Elizabeth Carye > Richard > William Carye & Mary Boleyne
> > > > >
> > > > > Thomas Clifton, 1606-1681, England > MA
> > > > > Spouse: Mary Longothame, 1600-1687 England > MA
> > > > > Line: Richard Clifton > George Clifton & Winfred Throld
> > > > I checked all those on Wikitree and none appears to be substantiated.
> > > > However, there is an upcoming article on a possible Henry II descent for Margery Olliver, mother of the Winslow brothers.
> > > Can you provide more details on this "upcoming" article? What is your source for this information about an upcoming article?
> > Sorry. I hadn't noticed your reply. Martin Hollick informed me of this. It's by a friend of his who got a PhD in history and also loves genealogy. He wrote the article on Susannah Jackson White Winslow in 2018 in The American Genealogist. The upcoming article is presumably in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register, though
> Thanks for this information. However, I've checked the table of contents for each issue of TAG in 2018 and I can find no indication of an article regarding Susannah Jackson White Winslow. The table of contents for each of the issues of TAG for 2018 can be found at this website (each is a PDF):
> https://americangenealogist.com/contents/recent-issues/
>
> Can you help? Are you sure you've got the right magazine for the 2018 article?

Oct. 2017 issue. The authors are Sue Allan, Caleb Johnson (FASG), and Simon Neal.