On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 22:57:29 -0700, William Ahern
<william@25thandClement.com> wrote:

>John Grossbohlin <nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "knuttle" wrote in message news:sjkdtu$7mb$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>I plan to finish our garage as a garage/work shop. The walls are about 10
>>>feet high.
>>>
>>>Part of the garage is already dry walled, and the drywall is installed with
>>>long side horizontally.
>>>
>>>From a handling point of view, it seems that it would be easier to install
>>>it with the long side vertical.
>>>
>>>Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
>>
>> Regarding your question. From a structural standpoint no.
>
>Drywall can work as a shear wall for earthquake reinforcement. Specific
>types of plywood are normally used in proper retrofits, but AFAIU drywall
>can work well enough depending on the requirements and the drywall specs.
>
>For plywood shear walls, horizontal panels are preferred, even where you can
>fit full, evenly spaced panels in either direction. The experimental
>evidence (the specifics of which I forget) is much weaker than the
>rationales contractors give, but the evidence still slightly favors
>horizontal placement. My neighbor retrofit his first floor a year after I
>did and boasted (based on his contractor's feel-good BS) that his panels
>were placed horizontal, unlike mine which were placed vertical. In our
>situations it almost certainly didn't matter. Rather I'm sure placement was
>in actuality dictated by which was easier and cheaper for the contractor.
>But *technically* I felt bound to concede his point and nod my head.
>
>At least as important as the drywall specs, and definitely more important
>than direction, would be the fastener type, spec, and placement. For plywood
>retrofit shearwalls, screws are considered a conspicuous sign of shoddy
>work. But I'm sure screws could still be used as long as they met the right
>specs; screws just aren't as fool- and defect-proof as nails. Maybe the
>reverse is true for drywall, with screws making it easier to achieve maximum
>benefit.
I wouls NEVER nail drywall. Screws can cause pops too, but nails
WILL pop. Guaranteed.
ANd for plywood osing PROPER screws is better than nailing - even if
proper hot galvanized ardox nails are used.

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 09:36:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 10/7/2021 8:49 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 08:14:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/7/2021 12:57 AM, William Ahern wrote:
>>>> John Grossbohlin <nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> "knuttle" wrote in message news:sjkdtu$7mb$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I plan to finish our garage as a garage/work shop. The walls are about 10
>>>>>> feet high.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Part of the garage is already dry walled, and the drywall is installed with
>>>>>> long side horizontally.
>>>>>>
>>>>> >From a handling point of view, it seems that it would be easier to install
>>>>>> it with the long side vertical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding your question. From a structural standpoint no.
>>>>
>>>> Drywall can work as a shear wall for earthquake reinforcement. Specific
>>>> types of plywood are normally used in proper retrofits, but AFAIU drywall
>>>> can work well enough depending on the requirements and the drywall specs.
>>>>
>>>> For plywood shear walls, horizontal panels are preferred, even where you can
>>>> fit full, evenly spaced panels in either direction. The experimental
>>>> evidence (the specifics of which I forget) is much weaker than the
>>>> rationales contractors give, but the evidence still slightly favors
>>>> horizontal placement. My neighbor retrofit his first floor a year after I
>>>> did and boasted (based on his contractor's feel-good BS) that his panels
>>>> were placed horizontal, unlike mine which were placed vertical. In our
>>>> situations it almost certainly didn't matter. Rather I'm sure placement was
>>>> in actuality dictated by which was easier and cheaper for the contractor.
>>>> But *technically* I felt bound to concede his point and nod my head.
>>>>
>>>> At least as important as the drywall specs, and definitely more important
>>>> than direction, would be the fastener type, spec, and placement. For plywood
>>>> retrofit shearwalls, screws are considered a conspicuous sign of shoddy
>>>> work. But I'm sure screws could still be used as long as they met the right
>>>> specs; screws just aren't as fool- and defect-proof as nails. Maybe the
>>>> reverse is true for drywall, with screws making it easier to achieve maximum
>>>> benefit.
>>>>
>>> +
>>>
>>> What is an earth quake? ;~)
>>
>>
>> 2 ounces Cognac
>> 1 ounce absinthe
>> Garnish: lemon twist
>>
>
>ohhhhh. But what about all those special fasteners. LOL
Yo mean the ones that need a mixture of vofka and orange juice to
remove???

You're SCREWED

On 10/7/2021 11:21 AM, knuttle wrote:
> On 10/7/2021 8:55 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:
>> On 10/6/2021 12:34 PM, Beeper wrote:
>>
>>>> With that said sheet rock comes in several lengths.  Most often the
>>>> longer than 8' lengths are placed horizontally if the will is
>>>> shorter than the sheet.  IIRC sheet rock comes in 8', 10', and 12'
>>>> lenghts.
>>
>>      Tearing out wet drywall after Tropical Storm Allison dropped up
>> to 24 inches of rain [IIRC] in 24 hours, flooded hundreds/thousands of
>> Houston area homes in 2002 we quickly realized that horizontally
>> installed drywall made for a convenient height/break for tear-out and
>> replacement of full sheets.  Highest waterline of the five houses we
>> repaired was 31 or 32 inches.  It definitely moved the time line for
>> tear-out and dry-out.
>>
>> Dave in SoTex
>>
>>
> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
> mile wide.  It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove.

I don't know your particular situation but never say never. 4 years ago
hurricane Harvey then tropical storm Harvey brought 50+ inches of rain
in a 3 day period to the Houston metro area.

While you may be 80' above a creek, that is no guarantee. Although I
would feel safe.
Our home is 65 miles from the gulf coast. Our home is approximately 98'
above sea level. 3 times our street filled with water during the
heaviest rains on the 3rd day. Streets were pretty much flooded all the
way to the coast.

The probability of flooding is all dependent on how much rain or
draining water from other areas that you get and how fast it can drain.
It took 2 weeks for parts of Houston to fully drain.

Best bet is to look at water shed maps for your area.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:21:51 PM UTC-4, keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On 10/7/2021 8:55 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:
> > On 10/6/2021 12:34 PM, Beeper wrote:
> >
> >>> With that said sheet rock comes in several lengths. Most often the
> >>> longer than 8' lengths are placed horizontally if the will is shorter
> >>> than the sheet. IIRC sheet rock comes in 8', 10', and 12' lenghts.
> >
> > Tearing out wet drywall after Tropical Storm Allison dropped up to
> > 24 inches of rain [IIRC] in 24 hours, flooded hundreds/thousands of
> > Houston area homes in 2002 we quickly realized that horizontally
> > installed drywall made for a convenient height/break for tear-out and
> > replacement of full sheets. Highest waterline of the five houses we
> > repaired was 31 or 32 inches. It definitely moved the time line for
> > tear-out and dry-out.
> >
> > Dave in SoTex
> >
> >
> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
> mile wide. It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove.

I'm in a similar situation. Roughly 80' almost straight down to the bay
on the east and that same 80' over about a mile to the lake to the north.
It's also down hill to the south and west.

One year we got a letter from our mortgage holder informing us that we
were in a FEMA flood zone and that if we didn't buy our own flood insurance,
they were authorized to buy it for us.

When I called and started using words like "biblical proportions", they did
a little research and told me that I could ignore the letter. It turns out that
someone made a minor programming error which caused the letter to be
sent to every single one of their mortgagees.

The part that I still wonder about is the fact that it took them 3 months
to send a "retraction" to those of us that received the letter in error. I often
wonder how many people believed the letter and purchased flood insurance
during those 3 months. I would hope that the ins co's would tell people that
they weren't in a FEMA flood zone and didn't sell them the unnecessary
insurance.

wrote in message news:8r6slgdmutsnb02u928281g7bk6g90r0i5@4ax.com...

>One thing to think about is the sight line. Hung horizontally, you
>may see the joint because you're looking right down it's length. Avoid
>the seam at eye level (2' panel on the bottom) or you will see it no
>matter how good the taping is.

Putting the 2' piece at the bottom (or top for that matter) leaves you with
the sheets joining at tapered edges... a flat joint. Prefill the joint with
hot mud (setting joint compound) then tape and top coat with at least two
coats. Done well you will not see the joints as they will appear flat. By
pre-filling the gap between panels with hot mud the panels will act as one
piece of drywall and you should not get a bulge or crack over time. The
down side of putting the cut edge at the ceiling is you don't have a
straight factory edge butted against the ceiling... In which case you might
not get as crisp of a corner as a result. Pre-fill the irregularities with
hot mud either way!

If you put the 2' piece in the middle you will have one edge that is not
tapered. That results in what is essentially a butt joint. A butt joint
needs to be floated out a significant distance to hide it.... 2-2 1/2 feet
is not uncommon for a pro and most amateurs cannot do them well.

All that said, the OP is rocking his garage so none of this makes much
difference! ;~)

"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
news:34rslgl0ctvvsbuotbsbfls3ssal7kub0n@4ax.com...

>On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 21:30:41 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
><nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>"knuttle" wrote in message news:sjkdtu$7mb$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>I plan to finish our garage as a garage/work shop. The walls are about
>>>10
>>>feet high.
>>>
>>>Part of the garage is already dry walled, and the drywall is installed
>>>with
>>>long side horizontally.
>>>
>>>From a handling point of view, it seems that it would be easier to
>>>install
>>>it with the long side vertical.
>>>
>>>Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
>>
>>Regarding your question. From a structural standpoint no. However,
>>generally
>>you have fewer linear feet to tape with horizontal hanging but not always.
>>
>>Me... I've hung and taped a fair amount of drywall. In your case I'd
>>probably hang 4'x12' sheets horizontally. Start with 4' widths at the top
>>and put the nominal 2' at the bottom. If you are working alone you can
>>hang the upper sheets using a panel lift--they aren't just for ceilings!
>>You
>>can reach the horizontal joints fairly easy at those heights for taping
>>and
>>there is less taping to do.
>>
>>Depending on where the door(s) are located you might be able to avoid
>>having
>>to tape at least some butt joints.
>>
>>
>It''s not very common to have more than 8 or 10 feet between corners
>and windows or doors so in MOST cases there is no vertical joint in
>the "eye level" panets when mounting horizontal. If there is, a
>staggered vertical joint is not terribly visible. A full height
>vertical joint every 4 feet is a royal B---h to hide - - . Making the
>joints -if required - on the upper course cantered above doors or
>windows makes for a nice short vertical seam and the sides of the
>windows draw your eye away from the joint -= and it is unusual to
>require more than one joint in ther upper course even using the
>readily available 8 foot sheets (most walls are under 16 feet long)

Since the OP mentioned that some of the garage walls are already rocked I'm
guessing it's the outside walls that need to be rocked. That would suggest
that at least one of the walls could be 18-24' long. That makes avoiding
butt joints by burying them in doorways a bit more iffy... Been there. ;~)

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 12:16:42 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 10/7/2021 11:21 AM, knuttle wrote:
>> On 10/7/2021 8:55 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:
>>> On 10/6/2021 12:34 PM, Beeper wrote:
>>>
>>>>> With that said sheet rock comes in several lengths.  Most often the
>>>>> longer than 8' lengths are placed horizontally if the will is
>>>>> shorter than the sheet.  IIRC sheet rock comes in 8', 10', and 12'
>>>>> lenghts.
>>>
>>>      Tearing out wet drywall after Tropical Storm Allison dropped up
>>> to 24 inches of rain [IIRC] in 24 hours, flooded hundreds/thousands of
>>> Houston area homes in 2002 we quickly realized that horizontally
>>> installed drywall made for a convenient height/break for tear-out and
>>> replacement of full sheets.  Highest waterline of the five houses we
>>> repaired was 31 or 32 inches.  It definitely moved the time line for
>>> tear-out and dry-out.
>>>
>>> Dave in SoTex
>>>
>>>
>> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
>> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
>> mile wide.  It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove.
>
>
>I don't know your particular situation but never say never. 4 years ago
>hurricane Harvey then tropical storm Harvey brought 50+ inches of rain
>in a 3 day period to the Houston metro area.
>
>While you may be 80' above a creek, that is no guarantee. Although I
>would feel safe.
>Our home is 65 miles from the gulf coast. Our home is approximately 98'
>above sea level. 3 times our street filled with water during the
>heaviest rains on the 3rd day. Streets were pretty much flooded all the
>way to the coast.

But that's not 65 miles tilted strait toward the coast. There are
local minimums that will fill with water that has nowhere to go. Hell,
I live 950' above sea level but I don't expect it to drain very fast
(maybe 2-10 years ;-).

>The probability of flooding is all dependent on how much rain or
>draining water from other areas that you get and how fast it can drain.
> It took 2 weeks for parts of Houston to fully drain.

And the terrain. 80' on a bluff over a river would be relatively
safe. A mile behind that, perhaps not so much.

>Best bet is to look at water shed maps for your area.

Do they have your hurricane marked?
>
>

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 21:25:56 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>wrote in message news:8r6slgdmutsnb02u928281g7bk6g90r0i5@4ax.com...
>
>>One thing to think about is the sight line. Hung horizontally, you
>>may see the joint because you're looking right down it's length. Avoid
>>the seam at eye level (2' panel on the bottom) or you will see it no
>>matter how good the taping is.
>
>Putting the 2' piece at the bottom (or top for that matter) leaves you with
>the sheets joining at tapered edges... a flat joint. Prefill the joint with
>hot mud (setting joint compound) then tape and top coat with at least two
>coats. Done well you will not see the joints as they will appear flat. By
>pre-filling the gap between panels with hot mud the panels will act as one
>piece of drywall and you should not get a bulge or crack over time. The
>down side of putting the cut edge at the ceiling is you don't have a
>straight factory edge butted against the ceiling... In which case you might
>not get as crisp of a corner as a result. Pre-fill the irregularities with
>hot mud either way!

Even if done right, you will see the seam if you can look straight
down a long wall. Over time, it will only get worse.

>If you put the 2' piece in the middle you will have one edge that is not
>tapered. That results in what is essentially a butt joint. A butt joint
>needs to be floated out a significant distance to hide it.... 2-2 1/2 feet
>is not uncommon for a pro and most amateurs cannot do them well.
>
>All that said, the OP is rocking his garage so none of this makes much
>difference! ;~)

I managed to screw up the ceiling in my first house's garage. Well, I
screwed it up but it was really screwed up too. ;-)

That was my excuse, "it's only a garage".

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:56:44 AM UTC-5, tcr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, keith_...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> >
> > Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
> >
> > It seems it would be easier lifting the panels into place with the long
> > side vertical, as they could be set and pushed up to the wall. With the
> > long side horizontal the 2nd row piece would have to be lifted to the
> > top of the firs row and pushed into place.
> 1. Drywall the ceiling.
> 2. The first sheet for the wall should be placed up tight to the ceiling. This makes a tight joint with a tapered edge for taping and helps support the ceiling sheet.
> 3. The next sheet goes under the first. For an 8' wall that's it. The inch or so at the bottom will be covered by trim. For a 10' wall you'll have to decide if you want a 2' "patch" in the middle or at the bottom. Middle is easier to work on to feather out, bottom may be less noticeable. In a workshop it probably doesn't matter.
>

I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I think there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.

Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier for these.
Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.

Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above. You don't even have to go to a specialized drywall supplier. With all the sizes I listed above, all rooms from 8 to 10 feet high can be drywalled with two sheets stacked horizontal. And with sheets of 14' or I think 16', almost all walls can be covered with one long sheet from corner to corner. Or to make it easy to carry by one or two guys, use two 8' lengths with a seam in the middle. House construction companies and their supporting drywall makers are all about fast, cheap, easy. They have figured out long ago to build rooms in heights and lengths to standard sizes and to make drywall sheets the correct sizes to cover those walls quick and easy. Minimizing labor hours and cost to hang drywall.

> Horizontal or vertical is up to you. It may make a difference on how many joints you have to deal with especially (untapered) butt joints. In home construction, many rooms can be finished with 10 or 12 foot sheets covering a full wall and eliminating the butt joints.

wrote in message news:0r9vlg92o466tj5ikg875c620khgjoe64l@4ax.com...

>Even if done right, you will see the seam if you can look straight
>down a long wall. Over time, it will only get worse.

In my experience, with wood framing the waviness of the wall will likely be
more noticeable than a well hung and taped flat joint...

In new construction that is very common as the framing dries, twists,
shrinks, bows, settles, etc., over time and it is telegraphed through the
drywall.

Careful renovations are another story. This as the framing has generally
normalized and you can make the walls flat and they will stay that way. I've
used a scrub plane to remove the high spots and used shims to fill in the
low spots in the field of the walls. In some cases I also used hot mud to
flatten the framing out. The goal is to create the illusion of flatness in
both the rocking and mudding...

After the rock was hung I've also did some "mud framing" on the surface of
the drywall near the bottom. That was done so that the baseboards would be
straight. Almost nothing looks worse to me in finish carpentry than
baseboards with gaps between them and the wall... or wide globs of chalking.

I've also flattened the ceilings with shimmed furring strips...

Straight framing combined with well hung drywall, prefilling, and carefully
taped joints can look just fine for decades... in a garage it will look
perfect until the day the garage is cleared out to move!

"russellseaton1@yahoo.com" wrote in message
news:b856d944-97da-421d-8517-7b2ae5790028n@googlegroups.com...

>I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot
>sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I >think
>there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.

>Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
>Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you
>can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier >for
>these.
>Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.

>Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will
>find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above. You don't >even have to go
>to a specialized drywall supplier. With all the sizes I listed above, all
>rooms from 8 to 10 feet high can be drywalled with >two sheets stacked
>horizontal. And with sheets of 14' or I think 16', almost all walls can be
>covered with one long sheet from corner to >corner. Or to make it easy to
>carry by one or two guys, use two 8' lengths with a seam in the middle.
>House construction companies and >their supporting drywall makers are all
>about fast, cheap, easy. They have figured out long ago to build rooms in
>heights and lengths to >standard sizes and to make drywall sheets the
>correct sizes to cover those walls quick and easy. Minimizing labor hours
>and cost to hang >drywall.

What is available definitely depends on your local market. The local
independents have a limited selection as do the local home depot and lowes.
None stock 1/4" but some stores 20 miles away do. The only sizes they have
in 1/2" are 4x8, 4x10 and 4x12. Other thicknesses, green board, and glass
mat are only available in 4x8. The independents can order you about
anything in full units with enough lead time. If you don't want a full unit
there is a significant premium and you may wait a significant period of time
to get it... if they can even get it. As such, back to the garage
situation--4x12s along with tape and mud is the reasonable option based on
my local market.

Years ago when there were housing developments being built around here there
were more options... like 14' and 4.5' (I don't recall there being 5' but
then I wasn't looking for it). That was 30-50 years ago when there was a
major corporation in town that employed as many as 7,500 people. Now... it's
a different supply and demand situation and we use what we can get easily
and cheaply. The nearest specialty drywall supplier is about 55 miles north.
Others are 90+ miles south. I'm certainly not going to travel 100-200 miles
round trip to pick up a 6-12 sheets of 5' rock for a garage, nor would I
want to pay for shipping it!

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 12:45:12 AM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:56:44 AM UTC-5, tcr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, keith_...@sbcglobal..net wrote:
> > >
> > > Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
> > >
> > > It seems it would be easier lifting the panels into place with the long
> > > side vertical, as they could be set and pushed up to the wall. With the
> > > long side horizontal the 2nd row piece would have to be lifted to the
> > > top of the firs row and pushed into place.
> > 1. Drywall the ceiling.
> > 2. The first sheet for the wall should be placed up tight to the ceiling. This makes a tight joint with a tapered edge for taping and helps support the ceiling sheet.
> > 3. The next sheet goes under the first. For an 8' wall that's it. The inch or so at the bottom will be covered by trim. For a 10' wall you'll have to decide if you want a 2' "patch" in the middle or at the bottom. Middle is easier to work on to feather out, bottom may be less noticeable. In a workshop it probably doesn't matter.
> >
> I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I think there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.
>
> Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
> Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier for these.
> Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.
>
> Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above.

I just checked the drywall section on the Home Depot, Lowes & Menards websites. I scrolled
around and also tried their size filters.

Home Depot: The only width they list is 4'.
Lowe's: They list 4' and 4.5'. All three 4.5' products are Unavailable for on-line purchase or in-store pickup.
Menards: They list 4' and 4.5'. The 4.5' appears to be available in 12' lengths only.

Maybe my search skills are fading. Do you have any links for the other sizes that these stores carry?

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 00:51:23 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>wrote in message news:0r9vlg92o466tj5ikg875c620khgjoe64l@4ax.com...
>
>>Even if done right, you will see the seam if you can look straight
>>down a long wall. Over time, it will only get worse.
>
>In my experience, with wood framing the waviness of the wall will likely be
>more noticeable than a well hung and taped flat joint...
>
>In new construction that is very common as the framing dries, twists,
>shrinks, bows, settles, etc., over time and it is telegraphed through the
>drywall.
>
>Careful renovations are another story. This as the framing has generally
>normalized and you can make the walls flat and they will stay that way. I've
>used a scrub plane to remove the high spots and used shims to fill in the
>low spots in the field of the walls. In some cases I also used hot mud to
>flatten the framing out. The goal is to create the illusion of flatness in
>both the rocking and mudding...
>
>After the rock was hung I've also did some "mud framing" on the surface of
>the drywall near the bottom. That was done so that the baseboards would be
>straight. Almost nothing looks worse to me in finish carpentry than
>baseboards with gaps between them and the wall... or wide globs of chalking.
>
>I've also flattened the ceilings with shimmed furring strips...

I've done that with floors and have thought about it for walls but
thought I was being anal. I'm using MDF in one place behind my lathe
and a few other tools. I figured it would hold up better and be
easier to clean. Anyway, the first sheet I hung has a huge, ugly,
wave in it. The stud is out at least a half-inch, maybe 3/4. I
considered shimming out the stud(s) but I'd have to do the same on the
other side. Perhaps it would be easier just to replace it (2x6 - all
walls in the house are supporting), though others are out, too, but by
smaller amounts.

>Straight framing combined with well hung drywall, prefilling, and carefully
>taped joints can look just fine for decades... in a garage it will look
>perfect until the day the garage is cleared out to move!
>
Perfection is seldom seen. I guess, never, in my case.

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 21:45:09 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:56:44 AM UTC-5, tcr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, keith_...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> >
>> > Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
>> >
>> > It seems it would be easier lifting the panels into place with the long
>> > side vertical, as they could be set and pushed up to the wall. With the
>> > long side horizontal the 2nd row piece would have to be lifted to the
>> > top of the firs row and pushed into place.
>> 1. Drywall the ceiling.
>> 2. The first sheet for the wall should be placed up tight to the ceiling. This makes a tight joint with a tapered edge for taping and helps support the ceiling sheet.
>> 3. The next sheet goes under the first. For an 8' wall that's it. The inch or so at the bottom will be covered by trim. For a 10' wall you'll have to decide if you want a 2' "patch" in the middle or at the bottom. Middle is easier to work on to feather out, bottom may be less noticeable. In a workshop it probably doesn't matter.
>>
>
>I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I think there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.
>
>Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
>Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier for these.
>Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.

"Available", yes, but I've only *seen* 4' wide sheetrock. I can't
handle more than a 4x8 sheet by myself. So, 4x8 it is.

>Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above. You don't even have to go to a specialized drywall supplier. With all the sizes I listed above, all rooms from 8 to 10 feet high can be drywalled with two sheets stacked horizontal. And with sheets of 14' or I think 16', almost all walls can be covered with one long sheet from corner to corner. Or to make it easy to carry by one or two guys, use two 8' lengths with a seam in the middle. House construction companies and their supporting drywall makers are all about fast, cheap, easy. They have figured out long ago to build rooms in heights and lengths to standard sizes and to make drywall sheets the correct sizes to cover those walls quick and easy. Minimizing labor hours and cost to hang drywall.
>
Not here! Lengths, yes. Widths? You can have any width you want as
long as you want 48".

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 21:45:09 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:56:44 AM UTC-5, tcr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, keith_...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> >
>> > Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
>> >
>> > It seems it would be easier lifting the panels into place with the long
>> > side vertical, as they could be set and pushed up to the wall. With the
>> > long side horizontal the 2nd row piece would have to be lifted to the
>> > top of the firs row and pushed into place.
>> 1. Drywall the ceiling.
>> 2. The first sheet for the wall should be placed up tight to the ceiling. This makes a tight joint with a tapered edge for taping and helps support the ceiling sheet.
>> 3. The next sheet goes under the first. For an 8' wall that's it. The inch or so at the bottom will be covered by trim. For a 10' wall you'll have to decide if you want a 2' "patch" in the middle or at the bottom. Middle is easier to work on to feather out, bottom may be less noticeable. In a workshop it probably doesn't matter.
>>
>
>I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I think there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.
>
>Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
>Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier for these.
>Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.
>
>Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above. You don't even have to go to a specialized drywall supplier. With all the sizes I listed above, all rooms from 8 to 10 feet high can be drywalled with two sheets stacked horizontal. And with sheets of 14' or I think 16', almost all walls can be covered with one long sheet from corner to corner. Or to make it easy to carry by one or two guys, use two 8' lengths with a seam in the middle. House construction companies and their supporting drywall makers are all about fast, cheap, easy. They have figured out long ago to build rooms in heights and lengths to standard sizes and to make drywall sheets the correct sizes to cover those walls quick and easy. Minimizing labor hours and cost to hang drywall.
>
Oh, there is a sheetrock distributor about 1-1/2 miles from me. They
bring it in on railroad cars and ship it out on flat bed trucks. I
doubt they'd want to see my pickup around looking for three sheets of
4 1/2' sheetrock, not that it would fit.

On 10/8/2021 11:45 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 00:51:23 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
> <nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> wrote in message news:0r9vlg92o466tj5ikg875c620khgjoe64l@4ax.com...
>>
>>> Even if done right, you will see the seam if you can look straight
>>> down a long wall. Over time, it will only get worse.
>>
>> In my experience, with wood framing the waviness of the wall will likely be
>> more noticeable than a well hung and taped flat joint...
>>
>> In new construction that is very common as the framing dries, twists,
>> shrinks, bows, settles, etc., over time and it is telegraphed through the
>> drywall.
>>
>> Careful renovations are another story. This as the framing has generally
>> normalized and you can make the walls flat and they will stay that way. I've
>> used a scrub plane to remove the high spots and used shims to fill in the
>> low spots in the field of the walls. In some cases I also used hot mud to
>> flatten the framing out. The goal is to create the illusion of flatness in
>> both the rocking and mudding...
>>
>> After the rock was hung I've also did some "mud framing" on the surface of
>> the drywall near the bottom. That was done so that the baseboards would be
>> straight. Almost nothing looks worse to me in finish carpentry than
>> baseboards with gaps between them and the wall... or wide globs of chalking.
>>
>> I've also flattened the ceilings with shimmed furring strips...
>
> I've done that with floors and have thought about it for walls but
> thought I was being anal.

Anal or not, that used to be a common step, called pickup framing,
between the framing going up and the dry wall going up.

On 10/7/2021 9:02 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Snip

>
>> Best bet is to look at water shed maps for your area.
>
> Do they have your hurricane marked?
>>
>>

What? Marked?

On 10/7/2021 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:21:51 PM UTC-4, keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> On 10/7/2021 8:55 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:
>>> On 10/6/2021 12:34 PM, Beeper wrote:
>>>
>>>>> With that said sheet rock comes in several lengths. Most often the
>>>>> longer than 8' lengths are placed horizontally if the will is shorter
>>>>> than the sheet. IIRC sheet rock comes in 8', 10', and 12' lenghts.
>>>
>>> Tearing out wet drywall after Tropical Storm Allison dropped up to
>>> 24 inches of rain [IIRC] in 24 hours, flooded hundreds/thousands of
>>> Houston area homes in 2002 we quickly realized that horizontally
>>> installed drywall made for a convenient height/break for tear-out and
>>> replacement of full sheets. Highest waterline of the five houses we
>>> repaired was 31 or 32 inches. It definitely moved the time line for
>>> tear-out and dry-out.
>>>
>>> Dave in SoTex
>>>
>>>
>> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
>> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
>> mile wide. It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove.
>
> I'm in a similar situation. Roughly 80' almost straight down to the bay
> on the east and that same 80' over about a mile to the lake to the north.
> It's also down hill to the south and west.
>
> One year we got a letter from our mortgage holder informing us that we
> were in a FEMA flood zone and that if we didn't buy our own flood insurance,
> they were authorized to buy it for us.
>
> When I called and started using words like "biblical proportions", they did
> a little research and told me that I could ignore the letter. It turns out that
> someone made a minor programming error which caused the letter to be
> sent to every single one of their mortgagees.
>
> The part that I still wonder about is the fact that it took them 3 months
> to send a "retraction" to those of us that received the letter in error. I often
> wonder how many people believed the letter and purchased flood insurance
> during those 3 months. I would hope that the ins co's would tell people that
> they weren't in a FEMA flood zone and didn't sell them the unnecessary
> insurance.
>

I had an issue with my flood insurance going from $280 per year to $3500
per year. That was after the big flood fiasco caused by Katrina in NO.
We had not connection.

Anyway satellite elevation maps showed that our home was in a more prone
to flood location.

Soo I had an elevation survey performed and suddenly my insurance was
lowered.

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 12:13:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 10/7/2021 9:02 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>Snip
>
>
>>
>>> Best bet is to look at water shed maps for your area.
>>
>> Do they have your hurricane marked?
>>>
>>>
>
>What? Marked?

Water shed areas are marked, sure, but that doesn't help much when
there's 2'-3' of rain and 100MPH winds.

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 21:45:09 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:56:44 AM UTC-5, tcr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, keith_...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> >
>> > Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
>> >
>> > It seems it would be easier lifting the panels into place with the long
>> > side vertical, as they could be set and pushed up to the wall. With the
>> > long side horizontal the 2nd row piece would have to be lifted to the
>> > top of the firs row and pushed into place.
>> 1. Drywall the ceiling.
>> 2. The first sheet for the wall should be placed up tight to the ceiling. This makes a tight joint with a tapered edge for taping and helps support the ceiling sheet.
>> 3. The next sheet goes under the first. For an 8' wall that's it. The inch or so at the bottom will be covered by trim. For a 10' wall you'll have to decide if you want a 2' "patch" in the middle or at the bottom. Middle is easier to work on to feather out, bottom may be less noticeable. In a workshop it probably doesn't matter.
>>
>
>I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I think there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.
>
>Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
>Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier for these.
>Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.
>
>Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above. You don't even have to go to a specialized drywall supplier. With all the sizes I listed above, all rooms from 8 to 10 feet high can be drywalled with two sheets stacked horizontal. And with sheets of 14' or I think 16', almost all walls can be covered with one long sheet from corner to corner. Or to make it easy to carry by one or two guys, use two 8' lengths with a seam in the middle. House construction companies and their supporting drywall makers are all about fast, cheap, easy. They have figured out long ago to build rooms in heights and lengths to standard sizes and to make drywall sheets the correct sizes to cover those walls quick and easy. Minimizing labor hours and cost to hang drywall.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Horizontal or vertical is up to you. It may make a difference on how many joints you have to deal with especially (untapered) butt joints. In home construction, many rooms can be finished with 10 or 12 foot sheets covering a full wall and eliminating the butt joints.
Getting less than full flats of anything but 4X8 around here
virtually impossible - and full flats are special order. A few "trade
only" yards MAY have the special sizes in stock - if you are lucky.

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:20:10 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 12:45:12 AM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:56:44 AM UTC-5, tcr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, keith_...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does it make a difference horizontal or vertical?
> > > >
> > > > It seems it would be easier lifting the panels into place with the long
> > > > side vertical, as they could be set and pushed up to the wall. With the
> > > > long side horizontal the 2nd row piece would have to be lifted to the
> > > > top of the firs row and pushed into place.
> > > 1. Drywall the ceiling.
> > > 2. The first sheet for the wall should be placed up tight to the ceiling. This makes a tight joint with a tapered edge for taping and helps support the ceiling sheet.
> > > 3. The next sheet goes under the first. For an 8' wall that's it. The inch or so at the bottom will be covered by trim. For a 10' wall you'll have to decide if you want a 2' "patch" in the middle or at the bottom. Middle is easier to work on to feather out, bottom may be less noticeable. In a workshop it probably doesn't matter.
> > >
> > I cannot understand why so many people are talking about using 2 foot sections on this wall and whether to put it at the top or bottom. I think there are a lot of people who are very unfamiliar with drywall.
> >
> > Drywall sheets come in thicknesses of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8".
> > Drywall sheets come in lengths of 8', 9', 10', 12', 14', and I think you can even get 16' lengths too. Might have to go to a drywall supplier for these.
> > Drywall sheets come in widths of 4', 4.5', and 5'.
> >
> > Check the drywall section at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes online and you will find almost all of the sizes I mentioned above.
> I just checked the drywall section on the Home Depot, Lowes & Menards websites. I scrolled
> around and also tried their size filters.
>
> Home Depot: The only width they list is 4'.
> Lowe's: They list 4' and 4.5'. All three 4.5' products are Unavailable for on-line purchase or in-store pickup.
> Menards: They list 4' and 4.5'. The 4.5' appears to be available in 12' lengths only.
>
> Maybe my search skills are fading. Do you have any links for the other sizes that these stores carry?

I'll have to admit to making a mistake. There is apparently no 5 foot wide drywall. Just 4 and 4.5 foot wide sheets. Lengths of 8 to 16 feet. 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 thicknesses. I was sure I had seen 5 foot wide drywall somewhere. But maybe not. I live in a metro of about 400,000. We have the three big homeowner stores. Plus lots of drywall supply places too. Lot of house building here. I'm sure you could find one of the drywall supply places to sell you sheets even if you are not a commercial business customer. You don't have to go to HomeDepot, Lowes, Menards.

Apparently on this 10 foot tall wall he will have to put in a narrow filler strip at the bottom.

https://www.fbmsales.com/products/drywall/
Standard or Regular Drywall
Standard drywall is the most commonly used material and is characterized by a white surface on both sides. It is typically available in thicknesses ranging from 1/4“to 5/8” with 1/2” most often used for residential applications and 5/8” for commercial projects. The lengths vary from 8’ to 16’ and widths of 48” to 54”.

knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:sjn6qs$q40$1@dont-email.me:

> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
> mile wide. It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove

I felt the same way about our house. It was on top of a small hill above a
large plane that fed down to a 30-40' drop off. By the time our house was
affected by rising flood waters, someone would have built an Ark! (The
houses down below would have been completely under water.)

We did have some minor flooding once, though. A storm system dropped like
6" of rain and overwhelmed the soil so water couldn't drain away so
it came in. Two 20 inch box fans and a dehumidifier fixed things right up.

Puckdropper

On Sat, 09 Oct 2021 08:57:30 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:sjn6qs$q40$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
>> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
>> mile wide. It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove
>
>I felt the same way about our house. It was on top of a small hill above a
>large plane that fed down to a 30-40' drop off. By the time our house was
>affected by rising flood waters, someone would have built an Ark! (The
>houses down below would have been completely under water.)
>
>We did have some minor flooding once, though. A storm system dropped like
>6" of rain and overwhelmed the soil so water couldn't drain away so
>it came in. Two 20 inch box fans and a dehumidifier fixed things right up.

When you say "came in" are you talking about a basement or first
floor?

Builders now do a piss poor job of foundation drainage. I shouldn't
say "now". They weren't doing a great job 60 years ago. My parents'
house did have a sump and pump to deal with foundation drains but the
pump just dumped the water outside on the lawn, where it found its way
back to the foundation drains. At times the pump would run
continuously. The basement in our current house is walk-out so only
buried half way. Drainage isn't a problem.

On 10/9/2021 3:57 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:sjn6qs$q40$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> This is something we definitely will not have to worry about We are
>> about 80' above a creek that runs through a swamp that is over a half
>> mile wide. It we get flooded, many people will be looking for the dove
>
> I felt the same way about our house. It was on top of a small hill above a
> large plane that fed down to a 30-40' drop off. By the time our house was
> affected by rising flood waters, someone would have built an Ark! (The
> houses down below would have been completely under water.)

But the concern is YOUR house, not the neighbors.

>
> We did have some minor flooding once, though. A storm system dropped like
> 6" of rain and overwhelmed the soil so water couldn't drain away so
> it came in. Two 20 inch box fans and a dehumidifier fixed things right up.
>
> Puckdropper
>

There you go! High elevations are not a guarantee.

"Leon" wrote in message
news:_4udnXq2Y-515v38nZ2dnUU7-LPNnZ2d@giganews.com...

>On 10/8/2021 11:45 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 00:51:23 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
>> <nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:>
>
>>> Careful renovations are another story. This as the framing has generally
>>> normalized and you can make the walls flat and they will stay that way.
>>> I've
>>> used a scrub plane to remove the high spots and used shims to fill in
>>> the
>>> low spots in the field of the walls. In some cases I also used hot mud
>>> to
>>> flatten the framing out. The goal is to create the illusion of flatness
>>> in
>>> both the rocking and mudding...
>>>
>>> After the rock was hung I've also did some "mud framing" on the surface
>>> of
>>> the drywall near the bottom. That was done so that the baseboards would
>>> be
>>> straight. Almost nothing looks worse to me in finish carpentry than
>>> baseboards with gaps between them and the wall... or wide globs of
>>> chalking.
>>>
>>> I've also flattened the ceilings with shimmed furring strips...
>>
>> I've done that with floors and have thought about it for walls but
>> thought I was being anal.

>Anal or not, that used to be a common step, called pickup framing, between
>the framing going up and the dry wall going up.

I attribute my actions to being a fine woodworker doing carpentry. ;~)