I like to think about how we could design our own part in the world better. I therefore
also think how our past world could have been designed.

I really regret some things, such as the failure of Novix. That the competing UK forth
chip was going be a twin chipset, which has a cost affect.

Looking back, the Novix/RTX design was excellent for a Commodore 65. On these
base machines, you didn't really need all the higher end OS features of the 68000.
Particularly machines like the Sinclair machines. It would be a great match, particularly
if you integrated some graphics features ( like multiple colour depth
resolution character tiling, scrolling, and some shared memory sprites and a basic
integrated chipset (or at a home computer level). You could loose 3 out of 4 cycles
to shared memory access through a memory hub function, and still be
competitive. The GEOS GUI package, could have made an excellent home computer. A
misc processor, even better, even on the original Atari VCS. The Sega Mega drive or
Genesis, could have flown, by that time, Computer Cowboys could have offered them a 32
bit shboom processor, a leading design. With all I know now, the time was ripe
for such a thing to happen.

Back in the day, many firms came around knocking on doors of companies, peddling
advanced gaming technology to firms. Some of the leading chipsets in game consoles,
had been peddled to multiple companies. The companies who adopted them, often
survived or led the field. But, back in 1983, there were only the Commodore 64, Nintendo,
Atari 7800 chips etc that led the way at the low end. Commodore 64's chip had
some draw backs, and something not too much more complex was needed
for the Commodore 128.

The Atari 7800 was a paid for design by a company that designed unofficial mods for
Atari Arcade games, they used arcade like technology, and was well and truely out
there, but hobbled by poorer system resources, and processor. A Novix, there,
wow. You have yourself something to come under the Atari ST and out compete
Commodore.

Commodore had bought the Fab firm, MOS Technologies at a bargain price, and used it
to undercut the competition. But, to stay up to date, you need to upgrade your fab, lots of money, so you can provide
better chips. They had problems trying to design a 16 bit 6502 replacement. A Novix, or Misc, would have
been something, which could get better performance without updating the fab. I
forget the name of the engineer there, who came up with the Commodore 128
design (which was supposed to use a much better graphics chip, but he was talked into
using an in-house part, which turned out to be much worse. I think the chip he wanted, might have been the Motorola
one people think used Amiga technology through some collaboration, the specs are
similar). He was just short of inventing the first integrated home computer shared memory chipset on the plus 4
range (which type of chipset was probably by Acorn first, who did the Electron and ARM). The issue is, that they
could have released earlier with a Novix. The 64 was really a stepping stone to
something more like latter 16 bit home computers.

One issue that really stuffed everything, is the game console crash (and at one
time home computers). This stopped the release of of the Atari 7800, and a number of
advanced consoles, and ET was hidden in the desert (joke about the ET game cartridges
:) ). But, Nintendo made heaps of money in Japan, releasing a better machine,
that was worth buying. Companies had in their hands a formular to get consumers
buying again, and pull the companies through, but many didn't release the better
machines, and suffered. So despite the bleakness, it was still an excellent time for a
Novix like cpu to be picked up by the knowledgeable (I'm not saying here the Novix as was,
but a version with bugs fixed, and some more new features. 40xx+/60xx+?).
The interesting thing is, maybe you could have a Novix derived design in a pin
compatible socket on the 64 design, or extended by 8 bits of the data bus. It maybe
have been possible to use, or largely use, the entire Commodore 64 motherboard
and other components, which Jack would have been very happy about. However,
replacing most chips and integrating functions into one socket free's up space to put
memory. Even today, FPGA's are put into modules, which go into these sockets, as
replacement repair parts.

Now, the Atari VCS with such a chip, but better misc, from the beginning, would have
allowed much better performance and clearer upgrade path. It's graphics modes are software driven, so
a better CPU would help. I've come up with a insane theoretical design for an
game engine for the VCS, which could enable you to develop games of the level of
Sonic the Hedgehog on it, which would look like the version on the Sega Master
System. With a misc or Novix like design, things could be even better. There is
absolutely no real market for something like that on the VCS today, but I am thinking
of including it on the retro gaming chip I have planned, and a new object orientated
programming system to complement Forth. The retro chip was to use massive
compression techniques but, every redirection to the eventual data destination,
takes up a cycle or so, or requires parallelism (tiling and tile reuse, and reusing sprites
images, are all basic compression techniques used
back then, so it's not totally unreasonable). I designed my theoretical GA144 renderer
around this problem, so, on average, nearly 0 extra cycles to the parallel pipeline, but not
enough memory for a lot of detail. But, a lot more could have been done in the 1970's
using thee techniques. The Atari 7800 chipset was indeed, using a lot of other techniques that could have
been invented and used earlier on. The way things could have been.

https://youtu.be/L-78pcvZ200?t=215

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:42:02 AM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:
> https://youtu.be/L-78pcvZ200?t=215
The official video is better:
https://youtu.be/TU3-lS_Gryk

It's good you have something with drive to work by.
Keep an eye out for the girl is the striped dress.

Here's a rarer one:

https://youtu.be/Hvqgb1D6Opw

The day and time.

On 26/08/2022 00:17, Wayne morellini wrote:
> I like to think about how we could design our own part in the world better. I therefore
> also think how our past world could have been designed.

Old adage about repeating the same mistakes applies. Psychologically
humans haven't changed for a good few thousand years. All that's
happened is we've used technology to advance the same old ambitions
of 'personal advancement'.

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 10:43:36 AM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
> On 26/08/2022 00:17, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > I like to think about how we could design our own part in the world better. I therefore
> > also think how our past world could have been designed.
> Old adage about repeating the same mistakes applies. Psychologically
> humans haven't changed for a good few thousand years. All that's
> happened is we've used technology to advance the same old ambitions
> of 'personal advancement'.

Not really, it's just some get things wrong and can't judge things,
Figuring out isn't free.

Now we have people with a voice yelling access the room, who shouldn't
have a voice to do so, and these people are progressively getting in charge,
And as they are psychologically expanding they are changing behaviour. It's
a number of old style societies that have a name for these people, who
will wreck things and defend the society's interested. The first word starts with
"Useful" the second word is a derogatory. There are two main old ways of
living. One is of man one is of man with and under God.

My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and
any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)

Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling
of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.

Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme.
But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,)
you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
(with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.

Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around.
But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
(think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical
displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out,
none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.

p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU,
but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.
> One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
> The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
> on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
> Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
> all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
> memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and
> any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)
>
> Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
> banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling
> of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.
>
> Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
> of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme.
> But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
> SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,)
> you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
> (with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
> actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.
>
> Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
> did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around.
> But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
> we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
> big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
> (think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical
> displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out,
> none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.
>
> p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
> actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU,
> but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
> kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
> applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
> write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
> Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
> cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
> more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

Sorry, I didn't catch a name to address you by.

I didn't mean to imply that the Novix wasn't customised to suit the system (talking about
big companies). So, and dram interface is totally possible, and still at significant
performance increase using shared memory and similar graphics system to what they
used, or better system. It is basically a CPU core use, building out from that what fits
The budget. Of course, certain companies where notorious for skimping on new better
design expenses, at crucial times, which choked them. For example, the Commodore 64
was the only significant design improvement, which deserved a followup enhancement in
the next 2 years. Commodore only held off demise, due to buying the Commodore Amiga
Design in, because some other competitor was unwilling to pay the price for it. That other
company only really survived because they started innovating again late in the period, but
Too late fur such a moving field, with Nintendo and Sega moving in as well. I think I also
mentioned misc here. Both designs were suitable to be implemented on Mos technology's
slower fab process. The main benefit being the modest transistor count and 1 cycle
execution compared to an x86, 68000, in the range of 8 bit CPUs, while likely increasing
MHz a bit (from the design process in this what if scenario. If Church Peddle had done the
re-design instead of Chuck More (as much as we appreciate both) would it have been faster
Than a 6502 in MHz, we don't know. Of course, the systems were memory limited, so dual
bank dram (with video priority to the other bank would have allowed significant improvement
In the 8 bit era, bringing more low end functionality before the Amiga era, and as low end
alternatives to the expensive initial Amiga and ST ranges. But enough for some home
machine usage scenarios of the times. The graphics scheme design I identified, indicates
that they could have done better with similar or less transistors in this period. The reduced
transistor counts also allowing for earlier one chip chipset implementation like the Arm did
in the Archimedes series going into phone era, giving increased cost advantages. I have
advocated for a long dip module scheme before, allowing for narrow silicon, and even butted
multiple die like implementation to increase average yields.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.
> One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
> The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
> on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
> Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
> all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
> memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and
> any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)
>
> Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
> banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling
> of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.
>
> Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
> of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme.
> But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
> SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,)
> you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
> (with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
> actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.
>
> Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
> did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around.
> But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
> we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
> big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
> (think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical
> displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out,
> none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.
>
> p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
> actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU,
> but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
> kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
> applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
> write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
> Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
> cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
> more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

I'm trying to get to a point where I can go to the local innovation hub, and see if I can
get anybody interested in doing development and business a few retro and newer products
I want to do. Currently Ive had a lot of health issues and too many totally unnecessary legal
Issues to be able to have enough time to do some little thing when well enough. But,
I was interested in doing a proof of concept retro machine using my graphics and misc like
architectures, to prove what could have been fine in those days, and a watch version.
But to start off enhancing a zx81 design to do better colour and vector graphics, with light
changes,and sound. But the likelihood of getting a compatible 6 micron fab process these
days (the exact same performance as the original used in Commodore, Atari or Spectrum/zx81),
is too unlikely. Since the collapse in the zx81 and VCS sectors in recent years, there doesn't
seem to be enough of a market of users. I mean 1 million hobbyists sales is ok, ten thousand
is not enough to warrant the effort. So, I'm looking at an free add on enhancement project,
which I also can't get too due to issues here. But cheaper and simpler, and people can make it
themselves. While I hopefully can get around to a new representative retro design, and real device.
From which more modern fuller devices could follow up. The market I looked at years ago, as the
followup is very viable, just need to kick start it, which the retro design could produce income
towards. Crashing into a market without that user base, and money for IP slows recognition and
adoption allowing competition to move in before you can have enough of a base to ensure future
success. At my age and health, not something willing to put money into starting rather than my time
effort and skill. If step one is successful, that will earn enough to pay for step two, and at some
Time, attract investors. I'm seriously looking going to investors with some other simple tech I'm musing
to design custom processing at home. I'm trying to think out a cheap implementation solution for
that, rather than more complex things that require a lot of money to implement and perfect. If I hadn't
had bad health and brain damage, I might have been able to come up with that 100-1000 times faster.
Now, even when well, I have to think sometimes hoe to open up the mail app on my phone, like today.
Which is rot (not Rise of the Triads :) ). But, at least I thought through a lot of this stuff before it got too
bad, and thousands of designs. Those sorts of things stick on memory a bit better. If anybody knows of
any groups that might like to do this, email me. I'm thinking of going to a certain company if all else fails.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > > My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.
> > One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
> > The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
> > on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
> > Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
> > all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
> > memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and
> > any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)
> >
> > Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
> > banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling
> > of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.
> >
> > Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
> > of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme.
> > But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
> > SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,)
> > you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
> > (with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
> > actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.
> >
> > Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
> > did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around.
> > But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
> > we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
> > big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
> > (think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical
> > displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out,
> > none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.
> >
> > p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
> > actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU,
> > but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
> > kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
> > applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
> > write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
> > Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
> > cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
> > more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.
> Sorry, I didn't catch a name to address you by.
>
> I didn't mean to imply that the Novix wasn't customised to suit the system (talking about
> big companies). So, and dram interface is totally possible, and still at significant
> performance increase using shared memory and similar graphics system to what they
> used, or better system. It is basically a CPU core use, building out from that what fits
> The budget. Of course, certain companies where notorious for skimping on new better
> design expenses, at crucial times, which choked them. For example, the Commodore 64
> was the only significant design improvement, which deserved a followup enhancement in
> the next 2 years. Commodore only held off demise, due to buying the Commodore Amiga
> Design in, because some other competitor was unwilling to pay the price for it. That other
> company only really survived because they started innovating again late in the period, but
> Too late fur such a moving field, with Nintendo and Sega moving in as well. I think I also
> mentioned misc here. Both designs were suitable to be implemented on Mos technology's
> slower fab process. The main benefit being the modest transistor count and 1 cycle
> execution compared to an x86, 68000, in the range of 8 bit CPUs, while likely increasing
> MHz a bit (from the design process in this what if scenario. If Church Peddle had done the
> re-design instead of Chuck More (as much as we appreciate both) would it have been faster
> Than a 6502 in MHz, we don't know. Of course, the systems were memory limited, so dual
> bank dram (with video priority to the other bank would have allowed significant improvement
> In the 8 bit era, bringing more low end functionality before the Amiga era, and as low end
> alternatives to the expensive initial Amiga and ST ranges. But enough for some home
> machine usage scenarios of the times. The graphics scheme design I identified, indicates
> that they could have done better with similar or less transistors in this period. The reduced
> transistor counts also allowing for earlier one chip chipset implementation like the Arm did
> in the Archimedes series going into phone era, giving increased cost advantages. I have
> advocated for a long dip module scheme before, allowing for narrow silicon, and even butted
> multiple die like implementation to increase average yields.

I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

> lorem ipsum...
>
> Rick C.
>
> - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

How you doing old mate? Was a bit concerned we haven't seen you for while, and was going post to
ask if you were ok, but then seen you turn up in a thread today. Please stop being bitter and following people?

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

> I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.
>
> Rick C.

Jan Coombs
--

In article <348981ee-1aae-450f-85f9-22537bfcceb4n@googlegroups.com>,
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
<SNIP>
>I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

>Rick C.

Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:04:39 PM UTC+10, Jan Coombs wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > "lorem ipsum".
> I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.

> Jan Coombs

They were.

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 10:37:18 PM UTC+10, none albert wrote:
> In article <348981ee-1aae-450f...@googlegroups.com>,
> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> <SNIP>.
> At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

Thanks for your hubris Albert. You can follow comments among quotes, the please
do so. You know that with such damage it's hard to read and snip things. It's not all
About you.

> I'm trying to get to a point where I can go to the local innovation hub, and see if I can
> get anybody interested in doing development and business a few retro and newer products
> I want to do.[..] there doesn't
> seem to be enough of a market of users. I mean 1 million hobbyists sales is ok, ten thousand
> is not enough to warrant the effort. So, I'm looking at an free add on enhancement project [..]
> If step one is successful, that will earn enough to pay for step two, and at some
> Time, attract investors. I'm seriously looking going to investors with some other simple tech I'm musing
> to design custom processing at home.

Look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZBDUbfv4E

So that's the difference between talkers and doers. That second kind just do their designs,
not caring that much about „anybody interested” in advance.

Or that Australian guy, with his Maximite (in various variants!): https://geoffg.net/maximite.html

Have he requested „1 million hobbyists sales” before he started anything?

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 9:23:47 PM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:
> > I'm trying to get to a point where I can go to the local innovation hub, and see if I can
> > get anybody interested in doing development and business a few retro and newer products
> > I want to do.[..] there doesn't
> > seem to be enough of a market of users. I mean 1 million hobbyists sales is ok, ten thousand
> > is not enough to warrant the effort. So, I'm looking at an free add on enhancement project [..]
> > If step one is successful, that will earn enough to pay for step two, and at some
> > Time, attract investors. I'm seriously looking going to investors with some other simple tech I'm musing
> > to design custom processing at home.
...
"lorem ipsum".

People who can't really design much authentic and new and very good.. Clowns. The hobbyist of the
business world. You come across as Rick, is that you Rock.

You seem to have problems with concepts Nd understanding what's going on, but seem self entitled
to want to just in with a big mouth and regurgitate what you don't know. I'm sorry for you, that you
Have such a miserable life you have to piss on other people with fun anti-fscts, instead of being busy
working, hiding behind your moniker. Zbig.

If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..
I don't think I've ever met anybody with real talent that acts like you, they are always interested and
reflective on what is happening, that's intelligent people. I see garbage being thrown around a lot
as intelligence, and unless you are damaging or throwing it at me or others, I don't care. I don't
follow people around stalking them, even though they often deserve it and have low hanging fruit
to pick at. I might rarely say something outside my conversations to a real issue maker. But I,
like many intelligent people, just leave them alone to their own delusions. You can only help certain
people.

Find others in your league instead of stalking innocents. It's not your thread of project or interest, or
comments, so time to finish!

> If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
> of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..

Oh, so you're going to develop „tens of millions of dollars” business by talking here, on c.l.f.?
Wish you success.

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 10:15:23 PM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:
> > If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
> > of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..
> Oh, so you're going to develop „tens of millions of dollars” business by talking here, on c.l.f.?
> Wish you success.

The point i think is, not talking to certain people. I'll tell you what, one needs a lot more success than
you have to do it. That should give you an idea.

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 6:04:39 AM UTC-4, Jan Coombs wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".
> I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.

lorem ipsum

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:37:18 AM UTC-4, none albert wrote:
> In article <348981ee-1aae-450f...@googlegroups.com>,
> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> <SNIP>
> >I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".
> I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
> At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

I thought the joke was pretty good myself. It would not have made sense if I trimmed it. No?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 8:18:34 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 10:15:23 PM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:
> > > If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
> > > of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..
> > Oh, so you're going to develop „tens of millions of dollars” business by talking here, on c.l.f.?
> > Wish you success.
> The point i think is, not talking to certain people. I'll tell you what, one needs a lot more success than
> you have to do it. That should give you an idea.

There are many, many people we *don't* talk to. What makes the difference is who you *do* talk to.

What is so strange about your phobia for my posts, is that anyone can ignore any post they wish. My "lorem ipsum"
post was a very, very small offense and a reasonable joke. It takes a special person to be outraged by it.

I was going to respond to some of your posts previously. But it is nearly impossible to respond to you in a way that does not set you off. No matter how agreeable I try to be at various times, you find something to be insulted by and then start a flame.

Whatever. Enjoy your life.

lorem ipsum to all

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:00:12 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 6:04:39 AM UTC-4, Jan Coombs wrote:
> > On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
> > Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".
> > I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.
> lorem ipsum
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Oh thank you for leaving my line in there, it must therefore be relevant!

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:09:29 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> lorem ipsum..

What a strange one. Not really offended by "lorem ipsum" as I'm the last one in my threads it applies to. It's just funnily strange thing to bring up, when that is mainly all that you do in
these threads to an extent. Sure average people might not see the problems in your "arguments" and take you seriously, which is very damaging to projects, community efforts, and
facts. Which you would already Know, but any seriously intelligent person would see through that, even if they don't pick up on the motive. Caring people are often taken advantage of by
insolent.., but it's not often the case that they are more intelligent as well as more moral. Sometimes you act a certain way, then you slip in something. And the truth is, you are the one
who doesn't have to post here. I've got to protect the integrity of the information from those who want to kill steal and destroy (look it up). I had a quote here, I'll try to find it.

Normally, "Only a fool (or fools) thinks his foolishness is fun!"
Copyright 6-9-2022+, Me.

Incredible that Philosopher Me, sure gets around a lot, as much as you do here. Maybe he's Chinese with a name like that?

Anyway, I'm glad less deceptive people are turning up to scam troll my threads.

Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.

Now, I've shown you wrong on just about everything, as normal. Bye!

Folks, don't be fooled. A lot of people stay away from here because of a handful of people trying stuff, which results in some classic melt downs at times, so jack o lanterns can
laugh at them. Jail for jack o lanterns should be the new Usenet moto. A couple of changes in California, and certain countrys', laws would get rid of a lot off the net. So many of these
people seem like sole workers, who others find it difficult to work with, that get offended at the thought of community collaboration. Though not authentic themselves, they have a hard
time relating to people who are. As the saying goes, was it: to the evil all things are evil, or to the good all things are good? If only they could collaborate for the common good, rather
than trying to destroy it!

Anyway, apparently, one must be a royal dummy not to be as smart as them. I've got a friend with twin degrees who blindly follows this sort of thing around, and can't see the fault in his
logic, and starts to say the most bazaar random things sometimes. I get both shocked and bemused. That seems to be how life is.

I'll tell you a funny story. Years ago, I was walking with a friend across an intersection. She had just done something and said, "I'll show you women know a thing or two" and I said,
"What! You mean to tell me, you women know just one..or two things" (timing is everything) to which she hit me so hard in the arm, I couldn't stop laughing for a while. :). Love that girl to
bits (Not like me to do something like that, but things could be a bit wearing, even though women really seem to like that for some reason). So, I can see people playing up with logic,
coming from a long way off. Some of us just choose to be good protectors, and attract the opposites. You too can turn to the light side, Anakin! :)

Now, be serious along with me Rick. There is a world of opportunity out there, even for the weakest part, if you collaborate rather than oppress!

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 3:32:26 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:09:29 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > lorem ipsum..
>
> What a strange one. Not really offended by "lorem ipsum" as I'm the last one in my threads it applies to. It's just funnily strange thing to bring up, when that is mainly all that you do in
> these threads to an extent. Sure average people might not see the problems in your "arguments" and take you seriously, which is very damaging to projects, community efforts, and
> facts. Which you would already Know, but any seriously intelligent person would see through that, even if they don't pick up on the motive. Caring people are often taken advantage of by
> insolent.., but it's not often the case that they are more intelligent as well as more moral. Sometimes you act a certain way, then you slip in something. And the truth is, you are the one
> who doesn't have to post here. I've got to protect the integrity of the information from those who want to kill steal and destroy (look it up). I had a quote here, I'll try to find it.
>
> Normally, "Only a fool (or fools) thinks his foolishness is fun!"
> Copyright 6-9-2022+, Me.
>
> Incredible that Philosopher Me, sure gets around a lot, as much as you do here. Maybe he's Chinese with a name like that?
>
> Anyway, I'm glad less deceptive people are turning up to scam troll my threads.
>
> Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
> proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.
>
> Now, I've shown you wrong on just about everything, as normal. Bye!
...

> Now, be serious along with me Rick. There is a world of opportunity out there, even for the weakest part, if you collaborate rather than oppress!

He admits I have a point, again.