On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:44:48 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> What's the ratio of TA or RA annual compensation to OSU
> football coach (usually highest paid university employee)
> compensation as compared to, oh, GM line workers to Mary
> Barra? Let's find out.
>
> The local 'education racket' shows roughly $16.70 per hour,
> $2510/mo for TA/RA:
> https://grad.uw.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021-22-TA-RA-SA_salary_chart.pdf
>
> 'Annual' may be fanciful. I just don't know. Let's assume it
> isn't seasonal and we get $30,120.00
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Completely unrelated to everything else in this thread. But back in 1991-92 school year I was a Teaching Assistant. Taught two accounting class each semester. Fun job. One semester I taught M-W-F one hour classes. Other semester I taught T-Th 1.5 hour classes. So I worked six hours per week. This was thirty years ago so my memory is spotty on the details. I think I got paid $4000 per semester. At the time I thought it was a lot of money. Or enough money for a college kid.

Each semester is about 3.5 months long. 14 weeks. 6 working hours per week. In class teaching time is what I am calling working time. Ignoring all the preparatory time to make the lessons. So I worked 84 hours the whole semester. $4000 / 84 = $47 per hour. Not sure how we would scale this up to an annual salary. 2080 full time working hours per year * $47 per hour = $99,000 annual salary. Or consider my semester jobs as full time and there was one summer semester so three semesters per year. $12,000 annual salary if three semesters per year at $4000 pay per semester. Or consider my semester jobs as part time and double them to get full time. So $24,000 annual salary.

Teaching Assistant was not a high paying job. But it was enjoyable. My only job as a TA was to teach two accounting classes to sophomores (19-20 year olds) each semester.

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:46:31 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:24:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >
> >Jay, if you can't figure out the statistics from the CDC why don't you just say so? What is it, the Bayne's theorem? This says that the more information you have the more precise answer you can generate. The information we
>
> Yes Sir! CDC Statistics!
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.ht
> Deaths Attributed to COVID-19...
> Data as of 9/22/2010
> 672,021
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Your link did not work John. See the one below. As of 9/24/2021 at 12:12 AM Central Daylight Time, the Covid-19 deaths are 680,688.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > >
> > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
> > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > unemployed.
> > > >
> > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!

So the CDC statistics are a rabbit hole? The fact that in 2020 the mortuary companies LOST money is a rabbit hole? The trouble with you Jay is that you're not arguing with me, you are holding a point of view that will not change because it has become part of your being as a follower and not leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCkMX6YdYU

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:49:02 PM UTC-7, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:17:51 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:48:54 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 9/23/2021 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > Trump was entirely self financed. That is why he spent so much less than Hillary.
> > > Such bullshit!
> > Frank, you get more hilarious every posting. You ignorance grows by the second. I suppose that like Biden you have serious dementia tearing your brains to pieces. How hard would it have been to look this up? You just can't wrap your mind around your own failures. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/feb/10/donald-trump/donald-trump-self-funding-his-campaign-sort/
> That article says clearly that Trump's campaign was NOT "entirely self financed" as you claimed.
> Tom, please find someone who can help you with reading comprehension.

I could have predicted that you would say that. Trump received money supposedly for his campaign almost entire in the last few months of the election cycle and so that was NOT campaign money but that which ended up in the campaign funds of Republican candidates that were other than Trump.

I understand that you will argue anything, that your mind is now so twisted that all you can do is follow your leaders and do what is told of you - that you are actually looking forward to the days when you can bow down before your communist leaders. But that is YOUR mental condition and not those of the people of this country. When the bow breaks the cradle will fall and it will fall on you and those of you who are so mentally displaced that you hate your own country more than any enemy ever did.

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:38:32 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them..
> > > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > > unemployed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> > > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> > You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
> So the CDC statistics are a rabbit hole? The fact that in 2020 the mortuary companies LOST money is a rabbit hole? The trouble with you Jay is that you're not arguing with me, you are holding a point of view that will not change because it has become part of your being as a follower and not leader..
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCkMX6YdYU

Well, yes, because you make thing up, and we've been through this a zillion times. "CDC estimated that 545,600–660,200 excess deaths occurred in the United States during January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7015a4.htm That's what the CDC statistics show. And yes, the number of processed bodies is up. https://fortune.com/2021/08/07/covid-funerals-death-care-industry-burial-cremation-pandemic/ Of course, none of this happened down at the bottom of your alternate universe rabbit hole.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:24:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> >> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> >> > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all..
> >> > >>
> >> > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> >> > >
> >> > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> >> > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> >> >
> >> > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> >> > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> >> > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> >> > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> >> > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> >> > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> >> > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> >> > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
> >> > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> >> > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> >> > unemployed.
> >> >
> >> > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> >> > > Why should I work at all?
> >> > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> >> Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> >
> >Jay, if you can't figure out the statistics from the CDC why don't you just say so? What is it, the Bayne's theorem? This says that the more information you have the more precise answer you can generate. The information we
>
> Yes Sir! CDC Statistics!
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.ht
> Deaths Attributed to COVID-19...
> Data as of 9/22/2010
> 672,021

More science from another great scientist. Going for the Nobel by repeating lies? What does it feel like to have "sucker" tattooed on your forehead so all of your friends will like you?

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:50:23 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:38:32 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
> > > > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > > > unemployed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof..
> > > > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone.. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > > > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> > > You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
> > So the CDC statistics are a rabbit hole? The fact that in 2020 the mortuary companies LOST money is a rabbit hole? The trouble with you Jay is that you're not arguing with me, you are holding a point of view that will not change because it has become part of your being as a follower and not leader.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCkMX6YdYU
> Well, yes, because you make thing up, and we've been through this a zillion times. "CDC estimated that 545,600–660,200 excess deaths occurred in the United States during January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7015a4.htm That's what the CDC statistics show. And yes, the number of processed bodies is up. https://fortune.com/2021/08/07/covid-funerals-death-care-industry-burial-cremation-pandemic/ Of course, none of this happened down at the bottom of your alternate universe rabbit hole.

No, that is NOT what the statistics show. They show that when you pay a $50,000 per head bounty for reporting covid deaths, that is what you get. How many times do you have to be shown what is going on before you understand it?

I realize that you LIKE being a moron but I will show you one last time. I will give you a CDC website. Scroll down to "Select a Dashboard" go to the right hand side and mark "Weekly deaths by Cause Group". Then hit the Update Dashboard button. Below this is a set of charts. The Red Line represents the deaths by group in 2020. On the right hand side is the Respiratory Disease Deaths and it shows a SLIGHT Peak in March and April of 2020. This peak is representative of approximately 2,000 excess deaths. Covid-19 is caused by the virus named SARS-Cov-2. SARS means "Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome".

OK, do you understand that? THERE WERE NO LARGE NUMBER OF RESPIRATORY DEATHS ABOVE NORMAL. So where are these covid-19 deaths Jay. By all means point them out.

More importantly, the YELLOW LINES represent 2021 - the FIRST HALF OF 2021 had ALL deaths below normal. And finally in the last part of the year it has returned to the normal 10 year average. If there are NO deaths above normal, how could anyone be dying from covid-19?

WHERE ARE THESE covid-19 deaths Jay - show me! I'm waiting for that sharp legal mind of yours to prove your point.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

There are other parts of that page that do show EXTRA deaths. But if you look at it they SAY that they are "estimations". What do you have to estimate in actual death counts? I will tell you - they use a computer model that says that ALL of the normal deaths are occurring, so ANY reported covid-19 death would be counted as excess. Then the NIH pays medical facilities $50,000 per head to report covid-19 deaths and that is exactly what they do to the tune now of $40 Billion. There are literally no deaths for any other reasons than covid-19. Well, where are the "normal" deaths? They simply do not occur now.

So bow still lower to your masters. Believe whatever they tell you to believe. You are the perfect servant. You question not.

Am I simply not understanding what is going on? Then WHY the following?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/883227/revenue-of-funeral-homes-in-the-us/

You wish to be stupid above all else. So that is what you are.

On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones - have led to huge
>>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives, but wages of
>>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact, when productivity
>>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
>>>
>>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt saving the
>>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't he deserve a
>>> big raise?
>>
>> John, I think the general run of things has been like this:
>>
>> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably prevented stock
>> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus for doing his job!"
>>
>> versus
>>
>> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press bearing nearing
>> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the entire
>> production line shutting down, which would probably have dropped stock
>> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
>>
>> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent decades, to obscene
>> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if indeed their jobs
>> haven't been shipped offshore.
>>
>> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university presidents) from
>> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
>
> You over simplify things.
>
> First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping 10%.
> Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the corporation's
> over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined to finance
> the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether it is
> easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing "very well,
> thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above water".
>
> As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that corporate managers
> are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example, that
> Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in Thailand is 300
> baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
>
> Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so average daily
> wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to Thailand
> would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a savings of
> $110,880,000.
>
> Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of $110,880,000 a day
> be worth a very substantial bonus to management.

I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate profits, and
generate bonuses for top executives. But the other effect is the
impoverishing of workers lower on the organization chart.

And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge employer of
engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in our area is gone due to
that process, causing much economic harm to everyone who was not at the
very top. Even retirees who thought their pensions were secure took a
major, major hit.

It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at the expense
of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to raise taxes on the
rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/23/2021 9:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 8:09 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:40:16 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:52:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The Economic Policy Institute (EPI) estimates that CEO compensation
>>>> has
>>>> grown 1,322% since 1978, while typical worker compensation has risen
>>>> just 18%."
>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/in-2020-top-ceos-earned-351-times-more-than-the-typical-worker.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Other sources have other estimates, but they are broadly similar. What
>>>> is the typical, middle-of-the-curve CEO doing now that is over ten
>>>> times
>>>> as valuable as a CEO in the 1970s?
>>> But Frank, an increase in costs are equally true in the field of
>>> education.
>>> https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year#1950
>>> "In 1950, the U-Penn charged undergraduates $625 for the academic
>>> year."
>>> "Undergraduates attending U-Penn in the 2021-22 academic year will pay
>>> $61,170"
>>
>> I'm very well aware of that, John. I think it's scandalous. I worked
>> to pay my way through college (well, with
>> the help of some scholarships or assistantships). I don't think that's
>> nearly as possible now.
>>
>> And in my view, most of the cost increase has nothing to do with
>> better educational quality. I've observed
>> massive increases in campus size, building numbers and sizes,
>> documentation requirements, etc. but most of
>> all an incredible increase in the size and cost of the administration.
>>
>> Early in my career, the university had one Provost with one secretary
>> working out of one small office. (A provost is
>> sort of a vice president in charge of academic matters.) When I
>> retired, there IIRC was a provost, an assistant provost,
>> an associate provost, a gaggle of secretaries working in an office
>> complex half the size of my house. The number of
>> athletic facilities has probably quadrupled - and what do sports have
>> to do with education? Documents required for
>> program accreditation also quadrupled.
>>
>> Granted, my salary did increase nicely as my career progressed and as
>> I got promotions. But the salary of the part-timers
>> I had to hire didn't rise for over 25 years at last count. (I'll note
>> that full time faculty do have a union. Part-timers do not.)
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>>
>>
>
> What's the ratio of TA or RA annual compensation to OSU football coach
> (usually highest paid university employee) compensation as compared to,
> oh, GM line workers to Mary Barra?  Let's find out.
>
> The local 'education racket' shows roughly $16.70 per hour, $2510/mo for
> TA/RA:
> https://grad.uw.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021-22-TA-RA-SA_salary_chart.pdf
>
> 'Annual' may be fanciful. I just don't know. Let's assume it isn't
> seasonal and we get $30,120.00
>
> Then Mister Important gets $4,250,000.00 plus perks. A lot of perks,
> although less than half the wage of Alabama's coach. And no one sacks
> them into the sod either.
>
> https://badgerswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/15/wisconsin-badger-football-paul-chryst-2020-salary/
>
>
> That's 141 time s base employee rate.
>
> The guys who sing Johnny Cash's "I stole it one piece at a time" start
> at $22 per hour and, being UAW, we'll extrapolate to a union year of
> $44.000.00.
> https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/General-Motors-GM-Assembly-Line-Worker-Hourly-Pay-E279_D_KO18,38.htm
>
>
> Mary Barra's Board thinks she's worth 40,300,000.00 to GM:
> https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/08/gm-ceo-mary-barra-earned-40-3-million-in-2020-according-to-new-study/
>
>
> Which is 915X base employee rate.
>
> So you make a good point in one analysis. I could not have guessed any
> of those numbers ten minutes ago.

I'll just note that TAs or RAs can seldom count on a full year's work.
It may happen, it may not - usually not, IME.

Even the part-time faculty I hired had zero job security as well as
terribly low salaries. It's quite common for such people to teach part
time at several institutions, hoping to patch together a livable income.

My program hired engineers, all of whom had full time work. It was part
of my job to find qualified engineers who were happy to teach as a hobby
- often just to to pass on the knowledge they gained. I was lucky to
find some great guys. But I recall one guy I was trying to hire to teach
our HVAC class. He was very interested until I told him the pay. He
laughed out loud at the figure and said "Do you have any idea what I get
for consulting work?"

We didn't offer that class that year. Fortunately it was an elective.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 10:11:09 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones - have led to huge
> >>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives, but wages of
> >>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact, when productivity
> >>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
> >>>
> >>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt saving the
> >>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't he deserve a
> >>> big raise?
> >>
> >> John, I think the general run of things has been like this:
> >>
> >> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably prevented stock
> >> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus for doing his job!"
> >>
> >> versus
> >>
> >> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press bearing nearing
> >> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the entire
> >> production line shutting down, which would probably have dropped stock
> >> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
> >>
> >> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent decades, to obscene
> >> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if indeed their jobs
> >> haven't been shipped offshore.
> >>
> >> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university presidents) from
> >> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
> >
> > You over simplify things.
> >
> > First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping 10%.
> > Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the corporation's
> > over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined to finance
> > the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether it is
> > easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing "very well,
> > thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above water".
> >
> > As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that corporate managers
> > are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example, that
> > Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in Thailand is 300
> > baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
> >
> > Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so average daily
> > wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to Thailand
> > would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a savings of
> > $110,880,000.
> >
> > Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of $110,880,000 a day
> > be worth a very substantial bonus to management.
> I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate profits, and
> generate bonuses for top executives. But the other effect is the
> impoverishing of workers lower on the organization chart.
>
> And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge employer of
> engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in our area is gone due to
> that process, causing much economic harm to everyone who was not at the
> very top. Even retirees who thought their pensions were secure took a
> major, major hit.
>
> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at the expense
> of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to raise taxes on the
> rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.

Well, you're the one that thinks that the Democrats are for the small man.

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 9:28:38 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:50:23 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:38:32 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
> > > > > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > > > > unemployed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> > > > > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > > > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > > > > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> > > > You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
> > > So the CDC statistics are a rabbit hole? The fact that in 2020 the mortuary companies LOST money is a rabbit hole? The trouble with you Jay is that you're not arguing with me, you are holding a point of view that will not change because it has become part of your being as a follower and not leader.
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCkMX6YdYU
> > Well, yes, because you make thing up, and we've been through this a zillion times. "CDC estimated that 545,600–660,200 excess deaths occurred in the United States during January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7015a4.htm That's what the CDC statistics show. And yes, the number of processed bodies is up. https://fortune.com/2021/08/07/covid-funerals-death-care-industry-burial-cremation-pandemic/ Of course, none of this happened down at the bottom of your alternate universe rabbit hole.
> No, that is NOT what the statistics show. They show that when you pay a $50,000 per head bounty for reporting covid deaths, that is what you get. How many times do you have to be shown what is going on before you understand it?
>
> I realize that you LIKE being a moron but I will show you one last time. I will give you a CDC website. Scroll down to "Select a Dashboard" go to the right hand side and mark "Weekly deaths by Cause Group". Then hit the Update Dashboard button. Below this is a set of charts. The Red Line represents the deaths by group in 2020. On the right hand side is the Respiratory Disease Deaths and it shows a SLIGHT Peak in March and April of 2020. This peak is representative of approximately 2,000 excess deaths. Covid-19 is caused by the virus named SARS-Cov-2. SARS means "Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome".
>
> OK, do you understand that? THERE WERE NO LARGE NUMBER OF RESPIRATORY DEATHS ABOVE NORMAL. So where are these covid-19 deaths Jay. By all means point them out.
>
> More importantly, the YELLOW LINES represent 2021 - the FIRST HALF OF 2021 had ALL deaths below normal. And finally in the last part of the year it has returned to the normal 10 year average. If there are NO deaths above normal, how could anyone be dying from covid-19?
>
> WHERE ARE THESE covid-19 deaths Jay - show me! I'm waiting for that sharp legal mind of yours to prove your point.
>
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
>
> There are other parts of that page that do show EXTRA deaths. But if you look at it they SAY that they are "estimations". What do you have to estimate in actual death counts? I will tell you - they use a computer model that says that ALL of the normal deaths are occurring, so ANY reported covid-19 death would be counted as excess. Then the NIH pays medical facilities $50,000 per head to report covid-19 deaths and that is exactly what they do to the tune now of $40 Billion. There are literally no deaths for any other reasons than covid-19. Well, where are the "normal" deaths? They simply do not occur now.
>
> So bow still lower to your masters. Believe whatever they tell you to believe. You are the perfect servant. You question not.
>
> Am I simply not understanding what is going on? Then WHY the following?
>
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/883227/revenue-of-funeral-homes-in-the-us/
>
> You wish to be stupid above all else. So that is what you are.

I linked CDC's own summary of the evidence -- what it believes the numbers say. You say that it is not what the numbers say, so you disagree with the CDC. Being that you dropped out of high school and have no scientific education or credentials -- and are apparently brain injured by your own admission -- I think I'll go with the CDC's interpretation of the evidence -- which is, BTW, everybody's interpretation of the evidence except yours.

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 1:03:26 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > >
> > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
> > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > unemployed.
> > > >
> > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

You've been mixing with tenth=rate "engineers" too long, Jay. The chances are actually that Tom's problem isn't ignorance but that he speaks the truth out of turn, before it becomes the fashionable "fact" of the week to the practitioners of scientism. Global warming is a very good example; I imagine you aren't too thick to notice that it has now morphed into "climate change, up or down" because there isn't a single climatologist in the world who doesn't think global warming is a farce. The fuckwits here, who apparently have no brains to put in gear, owe Tom huge apologies for hounding him about his views of global warming, and will again owe him huge apologies when the current fad of pretending that we can manage "climate change" is discredited. Don't hold your breath waiting for the apologies: this scum just glides from from false god to false god and then pretend they never held the discredited view. Or admit that it was just a view, an opinion, nothing to do with science as they lied and lied and lied.

Andre Jute
Statistics is an art that only morons believe is closely related to mathematics.

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 11:13:09 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 9:28:38 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:50:23 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 8:38:32 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > > > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > > > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > > > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > > > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > > > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > > > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
> > > > > > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > > > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > > > > > unemployed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> > > > > > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > > > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > > > > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . .. I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > > > > > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> > > > > You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
> > > > So the CDC statistics are a rabbit hole? The fact that in 2020 the mortuary companies LOST money is a rabbit hole? The trouble with you Jay is that you're not arguing with me, you are holding a point of view that will not change because it has become part of your being as a follower and not leader.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCkMX6YdYU
> > > Well, yes, because you make thing up, and we've been through this a zillion times. "CDC estimated that 545,600–660,200 excess deaths occurred in the United States during January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7015a4.htm That's what the CDC statistics show. And yes, the number of processed bodies is up. https://fortune.com/2021/08/07/covid-funerals-death-care-industry-burial-cremation-pandemic/ Of course, none of this happened down at the bottom of your alternate universe rabbit hole.
> > No, that is NOT what the statistics show. They show that when you pay a $50,000 per head bounty for reporting covid deaths, that is what you get. How many times do you have to be shown what is going on before you understand it?
> >
> > I realize that you LIKE being a moron but I will show you one last time.. I will give you a CDC website. Scroll down to "Select a Dashboard" go to the right hand side and mark "Weekly deaths by Cause Group". Then hit the Update Dashboard button. Below this is a set of charts. The Red Line represents the deaths by group in 2020. On the right hand side is the Respiratory Disease Deaths and it shows a SLIGHT Peak in March and April of 2020. This peak is representative of approximately 2,000 excess deaths. Covid-19 is caused by the virus named SARS-Cov-2. SARS means "Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome".
> >
> > OK, do you understand that? THERE WERE NO LARGE NUMBER OF RESPIRATORY DEATHS ABOVE NORMAL. So where are these covid-19 deaths Jay. By all means point them out.
> >
> > More importantly, the YELLOW LINES represent 2021 - the FIRST HALF OF 2021 had ALL deaths below normal. And finally in the last part of the year it has returned to the normal 10 year average. If there are NO deaths above normal, how could anyone be dying from covid-19?
> >
> > WHERE ARE THESE covid-19 deaths Jay - show me! I'm waiting for that sharp legal mind of yours to prove your point.
> >
> > https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
> >
> > There are other parts of that page that do show EXTRA deaths. But if you look at it they SAY that they are "estimations". What do you have to estimate in actual death counts? I will tell you - they use a computer model that says that ALL of the normal deaths are occurring, so ANY reported covid-19 death would be counted as excess. Then the NIH pays medical facilities $50,000 per head to report covid-19 deaths and that is exactly what they do to the tune now of $40 Billion. There are literally no deaths for any other reasons than covid-19. Well, where are the "normal" deaths? They simply do not occur now.
> >
> > So bow still lower to your masters. Believe whatever they tell you to believe. You are the perfect servant. You question not.
> >
> > Am I simply not understanding what is going on? Then WHY the following?
> >
> > https://www.statista.com/statistics/883227/revenue-of-funeral-homes-in-the-us/
> >
> > You wish to be stupid above all else. So that is what you are.
> I linked CDC's own summary of the evidence -- what it believes the numbers say. You say that it is not what the numbers say, so you disagree with the CDC. Being that you dropped out of high school and have no scientific education or credentials -- and are apparently brain injured by your own admission -- I think I'll go with the CDC's interpretation of the evidence -- which is, BTW, everybody's interpretation of the evidence except yours.
>
> And we've been over the funeral home financial data multiple times in the past. The most profit per case does not come from preparation and disposal of the body. It comes from add-ons like chapel and grave-side funeral services, funeral cars, funeral director services, etc. -- all things that were shit-canned during the pandemic. Cremation is cheap and easy. Read this and educate yourself: https://funeraldirectordaily.com/sci-sees-2q-2021-revenue-per-service-jump-over-600-per-case/ https://investors.sci-corp.com/2021-07-28-Service-Corporation-International-Announces-Second-Quarter-2021-Financial-Results-And-Increases-2021-Guidance Case numbers were up during the pandemic, but cost per case were down, just as I was saying.
>
> BTW, I worked for a funeral home/ambulance company during college, so I understand the pricing/cost structure for funerals -- and the physical process as well, having slung around a lot of dead bodies and watched embalming. Boxing-up bodies for cremation without a service or embalming is a low-profit operation -- and thus discount cremation services.

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 11:17:43 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 1:03:26 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
> > > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
> > > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
> > > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
> > > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
> > > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
> > > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
> > > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
> > > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
> > > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them..
> > > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
> > > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
> > > > > unemployed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
> > > > > > Why should I work at all?
> > > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
> > > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
> > > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
> > You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> You've been mixing with tenth=rate "engineers" too long, Jay. The chances are actually that Tom's problem isn't ignorance but that he speaks the truth out of turn, before it becomes the fashionable "fact" of the week to the practitioners of scientism. Global warming is a very good example; I imagine you aren't too thick to notice that it has now morphed into "climate change, up or down" because there isn't a single climatologist in the world who doesn't think global warming is a farce. The fuckwits here, who apparently have no brains to put in gear, owe Tom huge apologies for hounding him about his views of global warming, and will again owe him huge apologies when the current fad of pretending that we can manage "climate change" is discredited. Don't hold your breath waiting for the apologies: this scum just glides from from false god to false god and then pretend they never held the discredited view. Or admit that it was just a view, an opinion, nothing to do with science as they lied and lied and lied.
>
> Andre Jute
> Statistics is an art that only morons believe is closely related to mathematics.

I expect nothing from these children. Their entire lives are disagreeing with anyone that actually knows what they are speaking of. I spent my entire life from childhood learning science and what makes the world work, These tiddly-winks want to think that they can know about it by reading an article on the Internet that takes them 3 minutes and in which they become bored.

On 9/24/2021 12:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones -
>>>>> have led to huge
>>>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives,
>>>>> but wages of
>>>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact,
>>>>> when productivity
>>>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
>>>>
>>>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt
>>>> saving the
>>>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't
>>>> he deserve a
>>>> big raise?
>>>
>>> John, I think the general run of things has been like this:
>>>
>>> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably
>>> prevented stock
>>> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus
>>> for doing his job!"
>>>
>>> versus
>>>
>>> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press
>>> bearing nearing
>>> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the
>>> entire
>>> production line shutting down, which would probably have
>>> dropped stock
>>> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
>>>
>>> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent
>>> decades, to obscene
>>> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if
>>> indeed their jobs
>>> haven't been shipped offshore.
>>>
>>> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university
>>> presidents) from
>>> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
>>
>> You over simplify things.
>>
>> First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping
>> 10%.
>> Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the
>> corporation's
>> over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined
>> to finance
>> the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether
>> it is
>> easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing
>> "very well,
>> thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above
>> water".
>>
>> As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that
>> corporate managers
>> are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example,
>> that
>> Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in
>> Thailand is 300
>> baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
>>
>> Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so
>> average daily
>> wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to
>> Thailand
>> would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a
>> savings of
>> $110,880,000.
>>
>> Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of
>> $110,880,000 a day
>> be worth a very substantial bonus to management.
>
> I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate
> profits, and generate bonuses for top executives. But the
> other effect is the impoverishing of workers lower on the
> organization chart.
>
> And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge
> employer of engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in
> our area is gone due to that process, causing much economic
> harm to everyone who was not at the very top. Even retirees
> who thought their pensions were secure took a major, major hit.
>
> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at
> the expense of the middle and lower classes. But any
> proposal to raise taxes on the rich gets painted as
> "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>
>

All that's true but there's both pull and push.

The other side of the equation is draconian punishment by
EPA and all the other departments bureaus and agencies, Fed
& State) of anyone who makes anything and in particular
anyone who employs anyone. At some point a rational man says
no and walks away. As evidenced.

Tax treatment is another area. I will never understand how
'race to the bottom' is pejorative! WTF? It's as if some
engineer were despairing, 'We just can't further reduce the
efficiency of this process'. 'Race to the bottom' sounds
like an honorable quest to me, like less disease, slower
corrosion, less waste etc.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 08:57:03 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:24:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
>> >> > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
>> >> > You need to move out of that hellhole.
>> >> >
>> >> > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
>> >> > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
>> >> > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
>> >> > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
>> >> > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
>> >> > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
>> >> > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
>> >> > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
>> >> > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
>> >> > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
>> >> > unemployed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
>> >> > > Why should I work at all?
>> >> > So you can move out of that hellhole.
>> >> Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over, confused].
>> >
>> >Jay, if you can't figure out the statistics from the CDC why don't you just say so? What is it, the Bayne's theorem? This says that the more information you have the more precise answer you can generate. The information we
>>
>> Yes Sir! CDC Statistics!
>> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.ht
>> Deaths Attributed to COVID-19...
>> Data as of 9/22/2010
>> 672,021
>
>More science from another great scientist. Going for the Nobel by repeating lies? What does it feel like to have "sucker" tattooed on your forehead so all of your friends will like you?

Well Tommy, you wrote (above) "Jay, if you can't figure out the
statistics from the CDC" and I then went to the CDC Web site and
copied their statistics and posted them in my post and now you tell me
I'm repeating lies?

Tommy Boy, you have "gone right 'round the bend", as my grandmother
used to say, and have now reached the point where you are even
defaming your own statements.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones - have led to huge
>>>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives, but wages of
>>>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact, when productivity
>>>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
>>>>
>>>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt saving the
>>>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't he deserve a
>>>> big raise?
>>>
>>> John, I think the general run of things has been like this:
>>>
>>> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably prevented stock
>>> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus for doing his job!"
>>>
>>> versus
>>>
>>> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press bearing nearing
>>> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the entire
>>> production line shutting down, which would probably have dropped stock
>>> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
>>>
>>> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent decades, to obscene
>>> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if indeed their jobs
>>> haven't been shipped offshore.
>>>
>>> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university presidents) from
>>> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
>>
>> You over simplify things.
>>
>> First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping 10%.
>> Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the corporation's
>> over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined to finance
>> the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether it is
>> easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing "very well,
>> thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above water".
>>
>> As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that corporate managers
>> are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example, that
>> Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in Thailand is 300
>> baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
>>
>> Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so average daily
>> wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to Thailand
>> would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a savings of
>> $110,880,000.
>>
>> Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of $110,880,000 a day
>> be worth a very substantial bonus to management.
>
>I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate profits, and
>generate bonuses for top executives. But the other effect is the
>impoverishing of workers lower on the organization chart.
>
Yes, you are correct but, after all, it is the job of Corporate
management to increase profits just as your job was to educate
students. Did you "run your business" by being nice to students and
giving them a passing grade simply because "they were there", so to
speak?

>And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge employer of
>engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in our area is gone due to
>that process, causing much economic harm to everyone who was not at the
>very top. Even retirees who thought their pensions were secure took a
>major, major hit.

Yes I agree. In my home town there were two gigantic "woolen mills"
who during the war years ran three shifts and were "coining money" as
the saying had it. When the war was over and the government contacts
ended the mills fell on hard times and went to the town and asked for
some relief in taxes and other "overhead" costs else they'd have to
move their operations to a cheaper local. Well, the Town Fathers
laughed at them, "move them gigantic mills?", which were a city block
in area and 3 to 4 stories tall, "You can't be serious".

Guess what? The mill owners weren't joking and they moved all the
specialized spinning and weaving machines to South Carolina or some
such place and the town, almost literally, went broke.

And people blamed it on the mill owners.

>
>It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at the expense
>of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to raise taxes on the
>rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.

Frank, the "rich" always get richer at the expense of the lower
classes, how can it be any different? And lets be honest, your "job"
wasn't to educate some poor, improvised, layabout, it was to educate
those who could afford to pay your price. and, as you have told us,
you are pretty well off these days.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 11:17:43 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 1:03:26 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
>> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 3:34:04 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 8:56:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > > > On 9/23/2021 10:08 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:03:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > > > >> On 9/22/2021 7:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>> You get the sort of world you want and deserve. So don't be surprised when you can't afford to buy a gallon of gas.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> Tom, you've been posting similar dire warnings and threats for years.
>> > > > > >> And yet, here I am, still prosperous, no economic problems at all.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> How's your neighborhood doing these days?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Dire warnings when gas here is at $5/gal? Yesterday I went to pick up a set of superlight wheels from a man in Alamo, CA. The houses there had to be seen to be believed. I don't think I saw a house under 3,000 sq ft and most probably at least 5,000. Google maps literally ran me around in circles since every road was being resurfaced. But a block away from me the road surface is practically gravel. Literally.
>> > > > > You need to move out of that hellhole.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > And it's terminally weird that you complain SO MUCH about how terrible
>> > > > > things are where you live. Yet there you stay!
>> > > > > > Again - this is the world you wish for this country and it is going to explode in your face.
>> > > > > I wish for pretty much the world I live in. (Well, maybe less traffic on
>> > > > > the main roads. Not that it's a big problem.)
>> > > > > > Didn't you just post that people without a degree couldn't be hired?
>> > > > > No, and there's your "memory" problem again!
>> > > > > > Well, 5 major companies have contacted me to work for them now that they've chased the degreed people out of this state. Tesla who hung up on me because I predicted their very problems now want me to work for them.
>> > > > > Sure, Tommy. We've heard such claims for years, along with "Groceries
>> > > > > are SO EXPENSIVE!!" Despite your statements, you remain unhappy and
>> > > > > unemployed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Let us know when you actually get a job. And please, show proof.
>> > > > > > Why should I work at all?
>> > > > > So you can move out of that hellhole.
>> > > > Save your breath. I figure the Haldol will kick-in maybe three hours after PO administration, so look for a fleeting moment of sanity around 11:30 or Noon PST. Maybe during a lucid interval, Tom will solve the ancient riddle of whether wheels hang or stand on their spokes and whether crank tapers should or should not be greased. If he misses the window, he'll be back to zero COVID deaths and the market falling during the Obama administration, job offers directly from Elon Musk, etc., etc. No amount of fact checking or correction will ever matter. You just have to roll him into a nice sunny spot near the window and the potted philodendron and leave him alone. "Bye-bye Uncle Tom, I have to go to work now. I'll see you tomorrow." [Tom] "F**** you! Communists are in my underwear! There is no COVID . . . . I won the Nobel Prize. What did you do!" [grabbing wheels on wheelchair, neck veins popping, looking out the window]. "I'll kick your ass!" [Other patients look over,
confused].
>> > > Jay, if you can't understand statistics from the CDC just say so. Don't pretend that you can understand it when you don't know shit. What is it, the Baynes Theorem? With the data we have the chances of my being wrong on what I've said is less that 1%. But continue making stupid statements like you're doing so that someone uses it in court to demonstrate your incompetence.
>> > You flipped that -- you mean a 1% chance of being right. Based on my extensive knowledge of statistics and multiple trips down the rabbit hole to the Tom Kunich Mystery Spot, the predicted odds of you being wrong on any give issue -- from bicycles to diseases -- is about 99%. I would say 98% between 11:39 and noon PST, assuming no adverse medication interactions. Nobody died of COVID? Okey-dokey. What's next? Gravity is a hoax? Tell us the truth . . . we can handle it!
>> >
>> > -- Jay Beattie.
>> You've been mixing with tenth=rate "engineers" too long, Jay. The chances are actually that Tom's problem isn't ignorance but that he speaks the truth out of turn, before it becomes the fashionable "fact" of the week to the practitioners of scientism. Global warming is a very good example; I imagine you aren't too thick to notice that it has now morphed into "climate change, up or down" because there isn't a single climatologist in the world who doesn't think global warming is a farce. The fuckwits here, who apparently have no brains to put in gear, owe Tom huge apologies for hounding him about his views of global warming, and will again owe him huge apologies when the current fad of pretending that we can manage "climate change" is discredited. Don't hold your breath waiting for the apologies: this scum just glides from from false god to false god and then pretend they never held the discredited view. Or admit that it was just a view, an opinion, nothing to do with science as
they
>lied and lied and lied.
>>
>> Andre Jute
>> Statistics is an art that only morons believe is closely related to mathematics.
>
>I expect nothing from these children. Their entire lives are disagreeing with anyone that actually knows what they are speaking of. I spent my entire life from childhood learning science and what makes the world work, These tiddly-winks want to think that they can know about it by reading an article on the Internet that takes them 3 minutes and in which they become bored.

My goodness! "entire life from childhood learning science and what
makes the world work" Yes Sir!

But Tommy you have told us that (1) you weren't intelligent enough to
even be able to graduate from high school, and (2) you've told us
about atom bombs that could "sink" an island and as proof showed us
the results of a meteor strike, and (3) you've told us all about
making all those complex scientific machines and as proof have
demonstrated, repeatedly, that you can't even assemble a bicycle
without help from Jay.

I can only comment that Science in America must be at a very low
level.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/24/2021 2:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 12:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones -
>>>>>> have led to huge
>>>>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives,
>>>>>> but wages of
>>>>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact,
>>>>>> when productivity
>>>>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt
>>>>> saving the
>>>>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't
>>>>> he deserve a
>>>>> big raise?
>>>>
>>>> John, I think the general run of things has been like this:
>>>>
>>>> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably
>>>> prevented stock
>>>> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus
>>>> for doing his job!"
>>>>
>>>> versus
>>>>
>>>> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press
>>>> bearing nearing
>>>> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the
>>>> entire
>>>> production line shutting down, which would probably have
>>>> dropped stock
>>>> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
>>>>
>>>> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent
>>>> decades, to obscene
>>>> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if
>>>> indeed their jobs
>>>> haven't been shipped offshore.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university
>>>> presidents) from
>>>> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
>>>
>>> You over simplify things.
>>>
>>> First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping
>>> 10%.
>>> Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the
>>> corporation's
>>> over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined
>>> to finance
>>> the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether
>>> it is
>>> easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing
>>> "very well,
>>> thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above
>>> water".
>>>
>>>   As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that
>>> corporate managers
>>> are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example,
>>> that
>>> Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in
>>> Thailand is 300
>>> baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
>>>
>>> Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so
>>> average daily
>>> wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to
>>> Thailand
>>> would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a
>>> savings of
>>> $110,880,000.
>>>
>>> Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of
>>> $110,880,000 a day
>>> be worth a very substantial bonus to management.
>>
>> I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate
>> profits, and generate bonuses for top executives. But the
>> other effect is the impoverishing of workers lower on the
>> organization chart.
>>
>> And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge
>> employer of engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in
>> our area is gone due to that process, causing much economic
>> harm to everyone who was not at the very top. Even retirees
>> who thought their pensions were secure took a major, major hit.
>>
>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at
>> the expense of the middle and lower classes. But any
>> proposal to raise taxes on the rich gets painted as
>> "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>>
>>
>
> All that's true but there's both pull and push.
>
> The other side of the equation is draconian punishment by EPA and all
> the other departments bureaus and agencies, Fed & State) of anyone who
> makes anything and in particular anyone who employs anyone. At some
> point a rational man says no and walks away. As evidenced.
>
> Tax treatment is another area. I will never understand how 'race to the
> bottom' is pejorative!  WTF? It's as if some engineer were despairing,
> 'We just can't further reduce the efficiency of this process'. 'Race to
> the bottom' sounds like an honorable quest to me, like less disease,
> slower corrosion, less waste etc.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of over-burdensome regulations;
but I also have no doubt there are those who will push, lobby and bribe
to get rid of clearly beneficial regulations.

The local river is a case in point. It was lined with steel mills for
many decades and was a horrid chemical mess, quite devoid of life. The
steel mills almost all went away in the late 1970s, and only now, 40
years later, is the river becoming acceptably clean. However, kayakers
are still warned not to actually stand on the bottom in many places,
because one's feet can sink down to the deep layer of grease that still
remains under the bottom's silt. (And BTW, a wealthy owner of a small
company was convicted just a few years ago of having his employee dump
waste oil into the river.)

But "race to the bottom" has never, AFAIK, referred to highest
efficiency or lowest waste of energy or material, etc. IME it's most
often used to refer to the fact that companies move operations to
locations where salaries and benefits are lowest. The large local tech
company I referred to earlier sent most of its production and even
design to Mexico. (I knew engineers who were forced to teach Mexican
engineers their design skills.)

For some companies, Mexican labor is too expensive, so jobs are shifted
to even cheaper labor markets. In effect, American workers are asked to
compete against near slave wages in other countries. That's the bottom,
and it's not a good place for an American to be.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/24/2021 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
>>
>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at the expense
>> of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to raise taxes on the
>> rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>
> Frank, the "rich" always get richer at the expense of the lower
> classes, how can it be any different? And lets be honest, your "job"
> wasn't to educate some poor, improvised, layabout, it was to educate
> those who could afford to pay your price. and, as you have told us,
> you are pretty well off these days.

I am pretty well off. But I don't believe the rich must always get
richer at the expense of the lower classes - at least, not to the degree
it happens in this country.

America is a land of extreme income disparity, and even more extreme
wealth disparity. Those disparities are far larger than in many
prosperous European and Asian countries.

I don't see that situation as being good for the nation, or for society.
We've already seen disastrous effects of disenfranchized folks voting
for a shyster celebrity who pretended that he would single-handedly fix
their problems. ("Those jobs are all coming back! Don't sell your houses!")

There are historical examples of similar situations triggering
revolutions, resulting in much bloodshed and misery but ultimately no
real improvement. We don't need that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/24/2021 2:13 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> I linked CDC's own summary of the evidence -- what it believes the numbers say. You say that it is not what the numbers say, so you disagree with the CDC. Being that you dropped out of high school and have no scientific education or credentials -- and are apparently brain injured by your own admission -- I think I'll go with the CDC's interpretation of the evidence -- which is, BTW, everybody's interpretation of the evidence except yours.

+1 of course.

> BTW, I worked for a funeral home/ambulance company during college, so I understand the pricing/cost structure for funerals -- and the physical process as well, having slung around a lot of dead bodies and watched embalming.

Everyone who's watched an embalming raise their hands.

(Mine's raised.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/24/2021 6:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 2:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/24/2021 12:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones -
>>>>>>> have led to huge
>>>>>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives,
>>>>>>> but wages of
>>>>>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact,
>>>>>>> when productivity
>>>>>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt
>>>>>> saving the
>>>>>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't
>>>>>> he deserve a
>>>>>> big raise?
>>>>>
>>>>> John, I think the general run of things has been like
>>>>> this:
>>>>>
>>>>> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably
>>>>> prevented stock
>>>>> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus
>>>>> for doing his job!"
>>>>>
>>>>> versus
>>>>>
>>>>> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press
>>>>> bearing nearing
>>>>> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the
>>>>> entire
>>>>> production line shutting down, which would probably have
>>>>> dropped stock
>>>>> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
>>>>>
>>>>> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent
>>>>> decades, to obscene
>>>>> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if
>>>>> indeed their jobs
>>>>> haven't been shipped offshore.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university
>>>>> presidents) from
>>>>> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
>>>>
>>>> You over simplify things.
>>>>
>>>> First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping
>>>> 10%.
>>>> Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the
>>>> corporation's
>>>> over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined
>>>> to finance
>>>> the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether
>>>> it is
>>>> easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing
>>>> "very well,
>>>> thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above
>>>> water".
>>>>
>>>> Â As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that
>>>> corporate managers
>>>> are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example,
>>>> that
>>>> Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in
>>>> Thailand is 300
>>>> baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
>>>>
>>>> Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so
>>>> average daily
>>>> wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to
>>>> Thailand
>>>> would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a
>>>> savings of
>>>> $110,880,000.
>>>>
>>>> Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of
>>>> $110,880,000 a day
>>>> be worth a very substantial bonus to management.
>>>
>>> I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate
>>> profits, and generate bonuses for top executives. But the
>>> other effect is the impoverishing of workers lower on the
>>> organization chart.
>>>
>>> And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge
>>> employer of engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in
>>> our area is gone due to that process, causing much economic
>>> harm to everyone who was not at the very top. Even retirees
>>> who thought their pensions were secure took a major,
>>> major hit.
>>>
>>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at
>>> the expense of the middle and lower classes. But any
>>> proposal to raise taxes on the rich gets painted as
>>> "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> All that's true but there's both pull and push.
>>
>> The other side of the equation is draconian punishment by
>> EPA and all the other departments bureaus and agencies,
>> Fed & State) of anyone who makes anything and in
>> particular anyone who employs anyone. At some point a
>> rational man says no and walks away. As evidenced.
>>
>> Tax treatment is another area. I will never understand how
>> 'race to the bottom' is pejorative! WTF? It's as if some
>> engineer were despairing, 'We just can't further reduce
>> the efficiency of this process'. 'Race to the bottom'
>> sounds like an honorable quest to me, like less disease,
>> slower corrosion, less waste etc.
>
> I have no doubt that there are plenty of over-burdensome
> regulations; but I also have no doubt there are those who
> will push, lobby and bribe to get rid of clearly beneficial
> regulations.
>
> The local river is a case in point. It was lined with steel
> mills for many decades and was a horrid chemical mess, quite
> devoid of life. The steel mills almost all went away in the
> late 1970s, and only now, 40 years later, is the river
> becoming acceptably clean. However, kayakers are still
> warned not to actually stand on the bottom in many places,
> because one's feet can sink down to the deep layer of grease
> that still remains under the bottom's silt. (And BTW, a
> wealthy owner of a small company was convicted just a few
> years ago of having his employee dump waste oil into the
> river.)
>
> But "race to the bottom" has never, AFAIK, referred to
> highest efficiency or lowest waste of energy or material,
> etc. IME it's most often used to refer to the fact that
> companies move operations to locations where salaries and
> benefits are lowest. The large local tech company I referred
> to earlier sent most of its production and even design to
> Mexico. (I knew engineers who were forced to teach Mexican
> engineers their design skills.)
>
> For some companies, Mexican labor is too expensive, so jobs
> are shifted to even cheaper labor markets. In effect,
> American workers are asked to compete against near slave
> wages in other countries. That's the bottom, and it's not a
> good place for an American to be.
>

The phrase 'race to the bottom' has been invoked repeatedly
all summer by Ms Yellen and a host of US House & Senate
loudmouths as regards tax rates. It's such a destructive
and obviously suicidal idea to raise taxes on our own firms
that they're reduced to empty phrases and arm twisting other
countries to raise theirs as well.

If you read that to infer that I advocate lower wages for US
workers, you misunderstood me.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/24/2021 6:42 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer
>>> at the expense
>>> of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to
>>> raise taxes on the
>>> rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other
>>> nonsense.
>>
>> Frank, the "rich" always get richer at the expense of the
>> lower
>> classes, how can it be any different? And lets be honest,
>> your "job"
>> wasn't to educate some poor, improvised, layabout, it was
>> to educate
>> those who could afford to pay your price. and, as you have
>> told us,
>> you are pretty well off these days.
>
> I am pretty well off. But I don't believe the rich must
> always get richer at the expense of the lower classes - at
> least, not to the degree it happens in this country.
>
> America is a land of extreme income disparity, and even more
> extreme wealth disparity. Those disparities are far larger
> than in many prosperous European and Asian countries.
>
> I don't see that situation as being good for the nation, or
> for society. We've already seen disastrous effects of
> disenfranchized folks voting for a shyster celebrity who
> pretended that he would single-handedly fix their problems.
> ("Those jobs are all coming back! Don't sell your houses!")
>
> There are historical examples of similar situations
> triggering revolutions, resulting in much bloodshed and
> misery but ultimately no real improvement. We don't need that.
>
>

This country does not in fact display 'income disparity'
whatever that means beyond nornmal human diversity. The
institutional and regulatory disincentives to hire/work are
more than offset by massive transfer payments which are not
included in the breathless reports of 'inequality'.

You might say that's a ridiculous inefficient and unfair
setup for the taxpayer, as I do, but here we are.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/24/2021 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 2:13 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>
>> I linked CDC's own summary of the evidence -- what it
>> believes the numbers say. You say that it is not what the
>> numbers say, so you disagree with the CDC. Being that you
>> dropped out of high school and have no scientific
>> education or credentials -- and are apparently brain
>> injured by your own admission -- I think I'll go with the
>> CDC's interpretation of the evidence -- which is, BTW,
>> everybody's interpretation of the evidence except yours.
>
> +1 of course.
>
>> BTW, I worked for a funeral home/ambulance company during
>> college, so I understand the pricing/cost structure for
>> funerals -- and the physical process as well, having slung
>> around a lot of dead bodies and watched embalming.
>
> Everyone who's watched an embalming raise their hands.
>
> (Mine's raised.)
>
>

I've seen more than one an do it himself, one drink at a
time, unto death.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:56:29 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/24/2021 12:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 9/23/2021 8:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:30:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/22/2021 11:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:38:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Increases in productivity - especially modern ones -
>>>>>> have led to huge
>>>>>> compensation increases and bonuses for top executives,
>>>>>> but wages of
>>>>>> ordinary workers have not risen in parallel. In fact,
>>>>>> when productivity
>>>>>> rises ordinary workers may suffer layoffs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee Iacocca basically kept Chrysler from going bankrupt
>>>>> saving the
>>>>> jobs of, probably, 15,000, or maybe more people. Doesn't
>>>>> he deserve a
>>>>> big raise?
>>>>
>>>> John, I think the general run of things has been like this:
>>>>
>>>> "CEO Jack made some executive decisions that probably
>>>> prevented stock
>>>> prices dropping 10%. He deserves a million dollar bonus
>>>> for doing his job!"
>>>>
>>>> versus
>>>>
>>>> "Maintenance supervisor Joe noticed a stamping press
>>>> bearing nearing
>>>> failure and got it speedily repaired. That prevented the
>>>> entire
>>>> production line shutting down, which would probably have
>>>> dropped stock
>>>> prices 10%. But he was just doing his job."
>>>>
>>>> Top executives' salaries have skyrocketed in recent
>>>> decades, to obscene
>>>> levels. Ordinary workers' salaries have stagnated, if
>>>> indeed their jobs
>>>> haven't been shipped offshore.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's time to hire cheap CEOs (and university
>>>> presidents) from
>>>> India. Why can't those jobs be done remotely?
>>>
>>> You over simplify things.
>>>
>>> First case... Manager prevented stock prices from dropping
>>> 10%.
>>> Doesn't sound like much, but what did this do to the
>>> corporation's
>>> over all financial standing? Would banks be less inclined
>>> to finance
>>> the company when shares prices dropped? Ask Andrew whether
>>> it is
>>> easier for a company to borrow money when it is doing
>>> "very well,
>>> thank you", or when "we are still keeping our head above
>>> water".
>>>
>>> As for jobs migrating overseas? And I'm sure that
>>> corporate managers
>>> are even getting raises for doing so. I read, for example,
>>> that
>>> Amazon, in the U.S., pays $15/hour. Minimum salary in
>>> Thailand is 300
>>> baht a day, about $1.14/hour at current exchange rates.
>>>
>>> Amazon employs some 1 million people in the U.S. so
>>> average daily
>>> wages is something like $120,000,000 in the U.S. A move to
>>> Thailand
>>> would result in a decrease in daily wages to $9,120,000, a
>>> savings of
>>> $110,880,000.
>>>
>>> Tell me, wouldn't a reduction in corporate costs of
>>> $110,880,000 a day
>>> be worth a very substantial bonus to management.
>>
>> I have no doubt that offshoring jobs can raise corporate
>> profits, and generate bonuses for top executives. But the
>> other effect is the impoverishing of workers lower on the
>> organization chart.
>>
>> And that's not merely the bottom of the chart. A former huge
>> employer of engineers, technicians, administrators etc. in
>> our area is gone due to that process, causing much economic
>> harm to everyone who was not at the very top. Even retirees
>> who thought their pensions were secure took a major, major hit.
>>
>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at
>> the expense of the middle and lower classes. But any
>> proposal to raise taxes on the rich gets painted as
>> "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>>
>>
>
>All that's true but there's both pull and push.
>
>The other side of the equation is draconian punishment by
>EPA and all the other departments bureaus and agencies, Fed
>& State) of anyone who makes anything and in particular
>anyone who employs anyone. At some point a rational man says
>no and walks away. As evidenced.
>
>Tax treatment is another area. I will never understand how
>'race to the bottom' is pejorative! WTF? It's as if some
>engineer were despairing, 'We just can't further reduce the
>efficiency of this process'. 'Race to the bottom' sounds
>like an honorable quest to me, like less disease, slower
>corrosion, less waste etc.

Way back when, I've read, one "tithed", gave 10% of one's money to the
Church, and those who wanted to educate their children gave money to
hire a teacher, and that was about it. Early U.S. government income
was largely from excise taxes, or similar taxes.

We've "come a long way" since the U.S. was born, which, one might add,
occurred, one reads, in opposition to what was thought to be an
excessive tax burden.
--
Cheers,

John B.