On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:46:32 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/6/2021 5:34 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > Frank Krygowski writes:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> So instead, the strategy should have been... what? We've heard here
> >> that it certainly shouldn't include masks or any restrictions
> >> affecting any business.
> >>
> >> Perhaps vitamin D?
> >
> > Here we go again: We must do something, this is something, therefore we
> > must do this.
> >
> > Maybe some rational cost/benefit analysis?
> I very frequently think in terms of cost/benefit analysis (or benefits
> vs. detriments). But it's a very difficult thing to analyze when faced
> with something as new as COVID, especially in the very beginning. That's
> when the very craziest ideas were being pushed by amateurs. And they
> certainly weren't doing that analysis.
> > I still think Sweden had the right idea, and they have a lower age
> > adjusted excess mortality rate to show it -- lower than anywhere in
> > southern Europe and most of northern Europe, way lower than the US.
> Of course, there's serious disagreement on Sweden's approach. See
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/
> and their per capita data doesn't look any better.
> https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-strategy-failed-higher-death-rate-2021-8
> > Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> > they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> > deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> > and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> > spotlight.
> We'll see. The delta surge seems to be past it's peak, and the reasons
> are poorly understood. Again, this thing is new.
> > Covid is bad, and it has killed a lot of people, but it's not plague
> > bad, or smallpox bad, or Spanish flu bad.
> I'd say the major difference is not the infectious agent; it's the
> modern response using knowledge and science. If COVID had hit hundreds
> of years earlier, it may well have been as bad as those diseases. Also,
> I'm not particularly swayed by arguments on many topics that go "Other
> things are worse, so quit fussing." By that logic, only the world's #1
> most pressing problem gets any attention.
> > Maybe it's not worth
> > handing over every right we have in the vain hope that government can
> > make it go away.
> That's hyperbole. Nobody has given away every right. You're asked to
> wear a mask sometimes, and to either get a shot or get tested. You're
> not being tortured or marched into battle.

Frank, like all socialists you are addicted to fear. You need Daddy and Mommy government to keep you safe no matter how safe you are or how unsafe life is. Shown the proof that there is no covid, that there were no excess deaths and that you are being played like a harp, you reject it all to maintain your addiction to fear and desire to be protected by something, your choice being BIG GOVERNMENT. Well you and Scharf and Russell and Jeff and Flunkmaster can all through yourselves a love party. Most of this country is sharply reversing as they realize the truth. "Fuck Joe Biden" as well as most of the stands booing Biden when he showed up for the Congressional Baseball game. This is why the chain link fences and National Guard around the White House and why they are not actually arming the National Guard because they would probably shoot Biden themselves.

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:52:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 10/6/2021 3:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:28:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:39:57 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> >> >>>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >>>>> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get
> >> >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated,
> >> >>>>>>>>>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get
> >> >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated
> >> >>>>>>>>>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for
> >> >>>>>>>>>> refusing), the
> >> >>>>>>>>>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> >> >>>>>>>>> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> >> >>>>>>>>> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> >> >>>>>>>>> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> >> >>>>>>>>> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> >> >>>>>>>>> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> >> >>>>>>>>> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> >> >>>>>>>> vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread
> >> >>>>>>>> the disease.
> >> >>>>>>>> The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> >> >>>>>>>> there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> >> >>>>>>>> vaccination.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> >> >>>>>>>> pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> >> >>>>>>>> become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> >> >>>>>>>> hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid
> >> >>>>>>>> allow the
> >> >>>>>>>> virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> >> >>>>>>>> to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> >> >>>>>>>> search for "Marek's disease".
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> +1
> >> >>>>>>> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> >> >>>>>>> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> >> >>>>>>> virus.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> >> >>>>>>> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> >> >>>>>>> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> >> >>>>>>> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> >> >>>>>>> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> >> >>>>>>> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> >> >>>>>>> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> >> >>>>>>> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> >> >>>>>>> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> >> >>>>>>> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> >> >>>>>> https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> >> >>>>>> Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> >> >>>>>> would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> >> >>>>>> many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> >> >>>>>> ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> >> >>>>> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> >> >>>>> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> >> >>>>> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> >> >>>>> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> >> >>>> Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> >> >>>> than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want
> >> >>>> to kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill
> >> >>>> the old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I read Radey's comments too and wondered. I've seen lots of stories
> >> >>> about kids catching Covid and some of them dying. Especially in
> >> >>> Mississippi and other anti vaccine Republican states that outlaw
> >> >>> masks. But I guess they are only kids so what, who cares. They can't
> >> >>> vote and give me money so...
> >> >> If you have any numbers on kids, say below 18, dying *of* covid, that
> >> >> might be informative. Stories, in this day and age, are increasingly
> >> >> just that.
> >> > The deaths of EVERYONE under 25 is perfectly normal
> >> >
> >> I didn't die at 25. Some close calls, but no.
> >> (yes, I have been called abnormal)
> >
> >I remember crawling forward from the tail gunners position to the front cabin after a bomb run. I didn't know that in case we had shrapnel from the anti-aircraft that might have penetrated a bomb, they left the bomb doors open to air out the bays and dry the HE which was liquid. The shelf you had to crawl on was maybe 6" wide and the sides of the aircraft were circular so that it would tip you out and over he bomb bays and to move forward you would stick a finger in forward to where a lateral rib crossed over a for and aft rib. This left a space about the size of a finger and a half where you could maintain your balance.
> Tommy, by your own admission you are a liar. You have told us all
> about how you were a helper for a more skilled worker and how you and
> your mate fixed all those things that the "stars" couldn't fix and
> now, suddenly you have become a tail gunner.
>
> As I have said, your stores might go over big with the other drunks
> down at the VFW but for somebody that actually was there you come
> across as just a silly fool, trying to tell everyone what a hero you
> were.

For someone that is a real nobody - the crew chief on a bomber that never existed - you sure know a lot. You must have learned that entirely by intuition and not because you had superior enlisted men to teach you. It must have been wonderful to go from E1 to E7 overnight without the help of anyone else at any time.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:35:11 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 14:28:38 -0400, Radey Shouman
> <sho...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:39:57 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >>> > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> >>> >
> >>> > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> > >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >>> > >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> >>> > >> >>>
> >>> > >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get
> >>> > >> >>> vaccinated,
> >>> > >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get
> >>> > >> >>> vaccinated
> >>> > >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for
> >>> > >> >>> refusing), the
> >>> > >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> >>> > >> >>
> >>> > >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> >>> > >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> >>> > >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> >>> > >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> >>> > >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> >>> > >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> >>> > >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> >>> > >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread
> >>> > >> > the disease.
> >>> > >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> >>> > >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> >>> > >> > vaccination.
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> >>> > >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> >>> > >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> >>> > >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid
> >>> > >> > allow the
> >>> > >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> >>> > >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> >>> > >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> +1
> >>> > >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> >>> > >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> >>> > >> virus.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> >>> > >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> >>> > >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> >>> > >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> >>> > >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> >>> > >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> >>> > >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> >>> > >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> >>> > >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> >>> > >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> >>> > > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> >>> > > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> >>> > > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> >>> > > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> >>> > > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> >>> > Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> >>> > a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> >>> > covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> >>> > certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> >>> Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> >>> than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want
> >>> to kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill
> >>> the old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> >>
> >> I read Radey's comments too and wondered. I've seen lots of stories
> >> about kids catching Covid and some of them dying. Especially in
> >> Mississippi and other anti vaccine Republican states that outlaw
> >> masks. But I guess they are only kids so what, who cares. They can't
> >> vote and give me money so...
> >
> >If you have any numbers on kids, say below 18, dying *of* covid, that
> >might be informative. Stories, in this day and age, are increasingly
> >just that.
> https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/COVID-19-Cases-by-Age-Group.aspx
> Cases and Deaths Associated with COVID-19 by Age Group in California
>
> Canada only but perhaps it is indicative.

While you are sucking the government off you could have looked at the normal statistics and seen that child deaths have been BELOW NORMAL https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/child-health.htm

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:

>
> Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> spotlight.

Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic indicates otherwise
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont

(scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:35:14 AM UTC-7, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
>
> >
> > Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> > they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> > deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> > and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> > spotlight.
> Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic indicates otherwise
> https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont
>
> (scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")
Another fear addict that requires a government to lie to him so that he can remain afraid for his entire life.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:02:20 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:35:14 AM UTC-7, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> > > they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> > > deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> > > and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> > > spotlight.
> > Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic indicates otherwise
> > https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont
> >
> > (scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")
> Another fear addict that requires a government to lie to him so that he can remain afraid for his entire life.

ok, let's recap:
The biggest fearmonger in this forum has once again accused me _wanting_ to remain afraid, over the following:
Radey Shouman waved a giant fear flag about vermont getting worse, and extrapolated that their numbers would be worse than florida by winter.
I responded with a link from the mayo clinic that contradicts Radey, showing that vermont is actually getting better - iow Radeys fears are unfounded.

Yet I'm the one "living in fear".

of course, Tommy doesn't criticize Radey for fearmongering that covid is getting worse, when tommy's position is that covid is pretty much non-existent anyway.

Tom, you really are a stupid fuck and a raging hypocrite to boot.

jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
>> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
>> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
>> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
>> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
>> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
>> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
>> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
>> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
>> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
>> >> >
>> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
>> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
>> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
>> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
>> >> > vaccination.
>> >> >
>> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
>> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
>> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
>> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
>> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
>> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
>> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
>> >> >
>> >> +1
>> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
>> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
>> >> virus.
>> >>
>> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
>> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
>> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
>> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
>> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
>> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
>> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
>> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
>> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
>> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
>> >
>> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
>> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
>> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
>> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
>> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
>> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
>> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
>> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
>> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
>> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
>
> Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
>
>> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
>> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
>> vaccination:
>>
>> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
>>
>> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
>> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
>> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
>> #4).
>
> The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> my
> expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> previously infected or not.

You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:

https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural

Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
negligible.

An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
malpractice.

"funkma...@hotmail.com" <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
>
>>
>> Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
>> they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
>> deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
>> and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
>> spotlight.
>
> Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic
> indicates otherwise
> https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont
>
> (scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")

NYT data looks like a pretty strong upward trend to me:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/vermont-covid-cases.html

--

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 11:22:20 AM UTC-7, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:02:20 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:35:14 AM UTC-7, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> > > > they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> > > > deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> > > > and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> > > > spotlight.
> > > Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic indicates otherwise
> > > https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont
> > >
> > > (scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")
> > Another fear addict that requires a government to lie to him so that he can remain afraid for his entire life.
> ok, let's recap:
> The biggest fearmonger in this forum has once again accused me _wanting_ to remain afraid, over the following:
> Radey Shouman waved a giant fear flag about vermont getting worse, and extrapolated that their numbers would be worse than florida by winter.
> I responded with a link from the mayo clinic that contradicts Radey, showing that vermont is actually getting better - iow Radeys fears are unfounded.
>
> Yet I'm the one "living in fear".
>
> of course, Tommy doesn't criticize Radey for fearmongering that covid is getting worse, when tommy's position is that covid is pretty much non-existent anyway.
>
> Tom, you really are a stupid fuck and a raging hypocrite to boot.
The tears coming from your eyes are tangible. As I said, you need a bog Daddy and a big Mommy to slap your butt and keep you on course to be a good little boy.

What is funny is that you don't understand one thing about what has been said. I suppose that your ignorance is inherited. Your real Mommy and Daddy were really stupid too weren't they? Is that why you think that your Big Government will be a better Daddy and Mommy?

Radey is talking about MEASURED INFECTIONS. Apparently you're not smart enough to know what that is. I on the other hand am talking about DEATHS caused by this hoax of an infection. You can't bring yourself to understand the most elementary thing possible. What are your going to have to say when everyone realizes that people like you spread dumb like fertilizer.

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 08:02:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:52:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> On 10/6/2021 3:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:28:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> >> >> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:39:57 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> >> >>>>> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> refusing), the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
>> >> >>>>>>>>> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
>> >> >>>>>>>>> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
>> >> >>>>>>>>> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
>> >> >>>>>>>>> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
>> >> >>>>>>>>> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
>> >> >>>>>>>>> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
>> >> >>>>>>>> vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread
>> >> >>>>>>>> the disease.
>> >> >>>>>>>> The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
>> >> >>>>>>>> there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
>> >> >>>>>>>> vaccination.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
>> >> >>>>>>>> pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
>> >> >>>>>>>> become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
>> >> >>>>>>>> hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid
>> >> >>>>>>>> allow the
>> >> >>>>>>>> virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
>> >> >>>>>>>> to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
>> >> >>>>>>>> search for "Marek's disease".
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> +1
>> >> >>>>>>> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
>> >> >>>>>>> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
>> >> >>>>>>> virus.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
>> >> >>>>>>> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
>> >> >>>>>>> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
>> >> >>>>>>> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
>> >> >>>>>>> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
>> >> >>>>>>> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
>> >> >>>>>>> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
>> >> >>>>>>> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
>> >> >>>>>>> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
>> >> >>>>>>> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
>> >> >>>>>> https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
>> >> >>>>>> Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
>> >> >>>>>> would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
>> >> >>>>>> many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
>> >> >>>>>> ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
>> >> >>>>> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
>> >> >>>>> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
>> >> >>>>> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
>> >> >>>>> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
>> >> >>>> Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
>> >> >>>> than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want
>> >> >>>> to kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill
>> >> >>>> the old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I read Radey's comments too and wondered. I've seen lots of stories
>> >> >>> about kids catching Covid and some of them dying. Especially in
>> >> >>> Mississippi and other anti vaccine Republican states that outlaw
>> >> >>> masks. But I guess they are only kids so what, who cares. They can't
>> >> >>> vote and give me money so...
>> >> >> If you have any numbers on kids, say below 18, dying *of* covid, that
>> >> >> might be informative. Stories, in this day and age, are increasingly
>> >> >> just that.
>> >> > The deaths of EVERYONE under 25 is perfectly normal
>> >> >
>> >> I didn't die at 25. Some close calls, but no.
>> >> (yes, I have been called abnormal)
>> >
>> >I remember crawling forward from the tail gunners position to the front cabin after a bomb run. I didn't know that in case we had shrapnel from the anti-aircraft that might have penetrated a bomb, they left the bomb doors open to air out the bays and dry the HE which was liquid. The shelf you had to crawl on was maybe 6" wide and the sides of the aircraft were circular so that it would tip you out and over he bomb bays and to move forward you would stick a finger in forward to where a lateral rib crossed over a for and aft rib. This left a space about the size of a finger and a half where you could maintain your balance.
>> Tommy, by your own admission you are a liar. You have told us all
>> about how you were a helper for a more skilled worker and how you and
>> your mate fixed all those things that the "stars" couldn't fix and
>> now, suddenly you have become a tail gunner.
>>
>> As I have said, your stores might go over big with the other drunks
>> down at the VFW but for somebody that actually was there you come
>> across as just a silly fool, trying to tell everyone what a hero you
>> were.
>
>For someone that is a real nobody - the crew chief on a bomber that never existed - you sure know a lot. You must have learned that entirely by intuition and not because you had superior enlisted men to teach you. It must have been wonderful to go from E1 to E7 overnight without the help of anyone else at any time.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
>
> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> >> >> > vaccination.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> >> >> >
> >> >> +1
> >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> >> >> virus.
> >> >>
> >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> >> >
> >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> >
> > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> >
> >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> >> vaccination:
> >>
> >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> >>
> >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> >> #4).
> >
> > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > my
> > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > previously infected or not.
>
> You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
>
> https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
>
> Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> negligible.
>
> An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> malpractice.

Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.

I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.

And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/7/2021 7:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot.

Same here. Back early in the pandemic I felt terrible and thought I
might have COVID, because most of the symptoms matched. As I was waiting
for a COVID test I remembered I'd gotten my second shingles shot the day
before. (The COVID test was negative.)

>> I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have
been from drinking too much beer the day before.

One of my best centuries ever started 7 AM the day after we, with good
friends, stayed until 2 AM closing time at a bar. Based on that
experience, I think copious amounts of beer may help me!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 1:28:40 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:

> >
> > I read Radey's comments too and wondered. I've seen lots of stories
> > about kids catching Covid and some of them dying. Especially in
> > Mississippi and other anti vaccine Republican states that outlaw
> > masks. But I guess they are only kids so what, who cares. They can't
> > vote and give me money so...
> If you have any numbers on kids, say below 18, dying *of* covid, that
> might be informative. Stories, in this day and age, are increasingly
> just that.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

Go to the webpage shown above. Go down to a graph titled "Deaths by Age Group". Its halfway down the page. If you put your mouse over the bar graphs it shows the number of dead in each age category. But this must be an outdated graph because it says only 573,087 deaths from Covid. When today its over 700,000 dead from Covid. CDC is so busy counting dead people it can't keep its webpages up to date.

0-4 age: 214 dead
5-11 age: 136 dead
12-15 age: 168 dead
16-17 age: 140 dead

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:34:46 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
> > On 10/5/2021 4:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 10/5/2021 11:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> >>>> pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> >>>> become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> >>>> hence are not comparable.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry to disagree with you, but I have a close and beloved family
> >>> member who nearly died from a malady against which he was vaccinated.
> >>>
> >>> Also, a few years ago I had an extremely scary bronchial problem. My
> >>> primary care physician was afraid I had whooping cough, even though we
> >>> both knew I had been vaccinated against it. He said post-vaccination
> >>> whooping cough is uncommon, but a definite possibility. (Fortunately,
> >>> that was not my problem.)
> >>>
> >>> Then there are the many cases of post-vaccination shingles, and many
> >>> other diseases. These things happen. Vaccines are not as reliable as
> >>> light switches.
> >>
> >> I agree that no vaccine is 100% effective. However the covid vaccines
> >> are remarkably bad compared to other widely prescribed, let alone
> >> mandated, vaccines.
> >
> > So instead, the strategy should have been... what? We've heard here
> > that it certainly shouldn't include masks or any restrictions
> > affecting any business.
> >
> > Perhaps vitamin D?
> Here we go again: We must do something, this is something, therefore we
> must do this.
>
> Maybe some rational cost/benefit analysis?
>
> I still think Sweden had the right idea, and they have a lower age
> adjusted excess mortality rate to show it -- lower than anywhere in
> southern Europe and most of northern Europe, way lower than the US. And
> they recently suspended the Moderna shot for anyone under 30 (along with
> Denmark).
>

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Johns Hopkins website.
Sweden has 144.76 dead per 100K population.
USA is 215.63.
Great Britain 206.02.
Italy 217.52.
Belgium 223.34.
Lot of East European and South America countries are the worst.
Poland 199.56.
Lithuania 184.22.
Latvia 144.97.
Switzerland 129.74.
Austria 124.6.
Germany 113.11.
Netherlands 107.41.
Estonia 104.25.
Canada 74.93. USA is three times worse than Canada on Covid deaths. Yeah Trump!!!!!!! We beat Canada!!!!!! MAGA!!!!!!!
Denmark 45.84.
Finland 19.73.
Norway 16.29.

Norway, Finland, Denmark surround Sweden. They have beaten the SH-T out of Sweden for killing people with Covid. Germany, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, also sort of surround Sweden. Sweden beat Poland, Lithuania, Latvia. All former Russia controlled countries.

Seems to me a whole lot of similar countries did a lot better than Sweden. The other similar Western, Modern, Expensive, countries did not let Covid run rampant and infect everyone willy nilly. With no restrictions like Sweden. The USA and particularly the SE USA under Republicans has taken the no restrictions and willy nilly approach, and lots and lots of people are dead from Covid.

> Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> spotlight.
>
> Covid is bad, and it has killed a lot of people, but it's not plague
> bad, or smallpox bad, or Spanish flu bad. It's not as bad as measles,
> mumps, or pertussis, which were endemic when you were a child. It's not
> nearly as bad as malaria or tuberculosis, to name two diseases that are
> still a great source of human misery and death. Maybe it's not worth
> handing over every right we have in the vain hope that government can
> make it go away.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 5:08:10 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
> "funkma...@hotmail.com" <funkma...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> >> they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> >> deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> >> and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> >> spotlight.
> >
> > Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic
> > indicates otherwise
> > https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont
> >
> > (scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")
> NYT data looks like a pretty strong upward trend to me:
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/vermont-covid-cases.html

Um, no, did you look closer at the data? Here's a copy paste from the page

Daily Avg. on Oct. 7 14-Day Change
cases 180 –13%
tests 7,003 –10%
hospitalized 43 –15%

There was a trough in the summer with an increase as the weather got cooler, but it's hardly the stuff of "northeast takes over the spotlight". You and tommy need to stop fear-mongering. Tommy has an excuse though, he's fucking stupid (not just merely stupid). You're way smarter than that, don't get sucked into his nonsense.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:10:29 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 11:22:20 AM UTC-7, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:02:20 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:35:14 AM UTC-7, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:34:46 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Back here, Vermont has the highest vaccinated rate of any state, and
> > > > > they're not looking good for the winter. Cases, hospitalization, and
> > > > > deaths are climbing. I can't wait to see the news stories when Texas
> > > > > and Florida hit their winter covid low and the northeast takes over the
> > > > > spotlight.
> > > > Care to tell us where you're getting that information? The Mayo Clinic indicates otherwise
> > > > https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map/vermont
> > > >
> > > > (scroll down to "More trends for Vermont")
> > > Another fear addict that requires a government to lie to him so that he can remain afraid for his entire life.
> > ok, let's recap:
> > The biggest fearmonger in this forum has once again accused me _wanting_ to remain afraid, over the following:
> > Radey Shouman waved a giant fear flag about vermont getting worse, and extrapolated that their numbers would be worse than florida by winter.
> > I responded with a link from the mayo clinic that contradicts Radey, showing that vermont is actually getting better - iow Radeys fears are unfounded.
> >
> > Yet I'm the one "living in fear".
> >
> > of course, Tommy doesn't criticize Radey for fearmongering that covid is getting worse, when tommy's position is that covid is pretty much non-existent anyway.
> >
> > Tom, you really are a stupid fuck and a raging hypocrite to boot.
> The tears coming from your eyes are tangible. As I said, you need a bog Daddy and a big Mommy to slap your butt and keep you on course to be a good little boy.

Whatever helps ya get to sleep at night sparky. If dreams of parents spanking little boys are it, seek therapy.
>
> What is funny is that you don't understand one thing about what has been said. I suppose that your ignorance is inherited.
> Your real Mommy and Daddy were really stupid too weren't they? Is that why you think that your Big Government will be a better Daddy and Mommy?

Projection is a mental condition. WE know you can't control it, you have our pity.

>
> Radey is talking about MEASURED INFECTIONS. Apparently you're not smart enough to know what that is.

Right, I'm sure Radey was talking about only about measured infections when he wrote:
"Cases, hospitalization, and deaths are climbing."

I'm not the one with reading comprehension issues here, sparky.

> I on the other hand am talking about DEATHS caused by this hoax of an infection. You can't bring yourself to understand the most elementary thing possible.

WE know what you _think_ you're talking about. We also know your completely full of shit.

> What are your going to have to say when everyone realizes that people like you spread dumb like fertilizer.

And still, you have yet to prove anyone here wrong (except yourself).

Still laughing _at_ you.

"russellseaton1@yahoo.com" <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:34:46 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>> > On 10/5/2021 4:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> On 10/5/2021 11:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
>> >>>> pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
>> >>>> become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
>> >>>> hence are not comparable.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sorry to disagree with you, but I have a close and beloved family
>> >>> member who nearly died from a malady against which he was vaccinated.
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, a few years ago I had an extremely scary bronchial problem. My
>> >>> primary care physician was afraid I had whooping cough, even though we
>> >>> both knew I had been vaccinated against it. He said post-vaccination
>> >>> whooping cough is uncommon, but a definite possibility. (Fortunately,
>> >>> that was not my problem.)
>> >>>
>> >>> Then there are the many cases of post-vaccination shingles, and many
>> >>> other diseases. These things happen. Vaccines are not as reliable as
>> >>> light switches.
>> >>
>> >> I agree that no vaccine is 100% effective. However the covid vaccines
>> >> are remarkably bad compared to other widely prescribed, let alone
>> >> mandated, vaccines.
>> >
>> > So instead, the strategy should have been... what? We've heard here
>> > that it certainly shouldn't include masks or any restrictions
>> > affecting any business.
>> >
>> > Perhaps vitamin D?
>> Here we go again: We must do something, this is something, therefore we
>> must do this.
>>
>> Maybe some rational cost/benefit analysis?
>>
>> I still think Sweden had the right idea, and they have a lower age
>> adjusted excess mortality rate to show it -- lower than anywhere in
>> southern Europe and most of northern Europe, way lower than the US. And
>> they recently suspended the Moderna shot for anyone under 30 (along with
>> Denmark).
>>
>
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
>
> Johns Hopkins website.
> Sweden has 144.76 dead per 100K population.
> USA is 215.63.
> Great Britain 206.02.
> Italy 217.52.
> Belgium 223.34.
> Lot of East European and South America countries are the worst.
> Poland 199.56.
> Lithuania 184.22.
> Latvia 144.97.
> Switzerland 129.74.
> Austria 124.6.
> Germany 113.11.
> Netherlands 107.41.
> Estonia 104.25.
> Canada 74.93. USA is three times worse than Canada on Covid deaths.
> Yeah Trump!!!!!!! We beat Canada!!!!!! MAGA!!!!!!!
> Denmark 45.84.
> Finland 19.73.
> Norway 16.29.
>
> Norway, Finland, Denmark surround Sweden. They have beaten the SH-T
> out of Sweden for killing people with Covid. Germany, Poland,
> Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, also sort of surround Sweden. Sweden beat
> Poland, Lithuania, Latvia. All former Russia controlled countries.
>
> Seems to me a whole lot of similar countries did a lot better than
> Sweden. The other similar Western, Modern, Expensive, countries did
> not let Covid run rampant and infect everyone willy nilly. With no
> restrictions like Sweden. The USA and particularly the SE USA under
> Republicans has taken the no restrictions and willy nilly approach,
> and lots and lots of people are dead from Covid.

Excess mortality is the proper measure of success. Attributing death to
covid or some other cause is not always simple, and practices differ
between countries. Also, people died due to the reaction to covid as
well as the disease itself -- drug overdoses and traffic deaths both
went up in the US, and care for non-covid diseases has been difficult.

Sweden is not the winner in excess mortality, Denmark, Finland, Iceland
and Norway all show an actual decrease. But it looks pretty good
compared to most of the world:

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:28:00 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 08:02:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:52:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> On 10/6/2021 3:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 11:28:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >> >> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:39:57 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> >> >> >>>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >> >>>>> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> refusing), the
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> >> >> >>>>>>>> vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread
> >> >> >>>>>>>> the disease.
> >> >> >>>>>>>> The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> >> >> >>>>>>>> there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> >> >> >>>>>>>> vaccination.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> >> >> >>>>>>>> pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> >> >> >>>>>>>> become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> >> >> >>>>>>>> hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid
> >> >> >>>>>>>> allow the
> >> >> >>>>>>>> virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> >> >> >>>>>>>> to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> >> >> >>>>>>>> search for "Marek's disease".
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> +1
> >> >> >>>>>>> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> >> >> >>>>>>> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> >> >> >>>>>>> virus.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> >> >> >>>>>>> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> >> >> >>>>>>> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> >> >> >>>>>>> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> >> >> >>>>>>> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> >> >> >>>>>>> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> >> >> >>>>>>> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> >> >> >>>>>>> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> >> >> >>>>>>> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> >> >> >>>>>>> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> >> >> >>>>>> https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> >> >> >>>>>> Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> >> >> >>>>>> would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> >> >> >>>>>> many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> >> >> >>>>>> ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> >> >> >>>>> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> >> >> >>>>> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> >> >> >>>>> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> >> >> >>>>> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> >> >> >>>> Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> >> >> >>>> than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want
> >> >> >>>> to kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill
> >> >> >>>> the old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I read Radey's comments too and wondered. I've seen lots of stories
> >> >> >>> about kids catching Covid and some of them dying. Especially in
> >> >> >>> Mississippi and other anti vaccine Republican states that outlaw
> >> >> >>> masks. But I guess they are only kids so what, who cares. They can't
> >> >> >>> vote and give me money so...
> >> >> >> If you have any numbers on kids, say below 18, dying *of* covid, that
> >> >> >> might be informative. Stories, in this day and age, are increasingly
> >> >> >> just that.
> >> >> > The deaths of EVERYONE under 25 is perfectly normal
> >> >> >
> >> >> I didn't die at 25. Some close calls, but no.
> >> >> (yes, I have been called abnormal)
> >> >
> >> >I remember crawling forward from the tail gunners position to the front cabin after a bomb run. I didn't know that in case we had shrapnel from the anti-aircraft that might have penetrated a bomb, they left the bomb doors open to air out the bays and dry the HE which was liquid. The shelf you had to crawl on was maybe 6" wide and the sides of the aircraft were circular so that it would tip you out and over he bomb bays and to move forward you would stick a finger in forward to where a lateral rib crossed over a for and aft rib. This left a space about the size of a finger and a half where you could maintain your balance.
> >> Tommy, by your own admission you are a liar. You have told us all
> >> about how you were a helper for a more skilled worker and how you and
> >> your mate fixed all those things that the "stars" couldn't fix and
> >> now, suddenly you have become a tail gunner.
> >>
> >> As I have said, your stores might go over big with the other drunks
> >> down at the VFW but for somebody that actually was there you come
> >> across as just a silly fool, trying to tell everyone what a hero you
> >> were.
> >
> >For someone that is a real nobody - the crew chief on a bomber that never existed - you sure know a lot. You must have learned that entirely by intuition and not because you had superior enlisted men to teach you. It must have been wonderful to go from E1 to E7 overnight without the help of anyone else at any time.
> Hardly Tommy, it took me some years to "go from E1 to E7" but still I
> don't have to tell lies like you. A 19 year old gunner on a B-52, from
> your other posts been in the Air Force a whole year all ready.
>
> And the bombs leaking so we have to dry them out?
>
> I will say one thing Tommy, you do have a vivid imagination.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > >>
> > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > >> >> > vaccination.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> +1
> > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > >> >> virus.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > >> >
> > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > >
> > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > >
> > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > >> vaccination:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > >>
> > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > >> #4).
> > >
> > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > my
> > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > previously infected or not.
> >
> > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> >
> > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> >
> > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > negligible.
> >
> > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > malpractice.
> Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
>
> I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
>
> And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.

Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?

Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:10:27 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:34:46 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >>
> >> > On 10/5/2021 4:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 10/5/2021 11:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> >> >>>> pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> >> >>>> become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> >> >>>> hence are not comparable.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sorry to disagree with you, but I have a close and beloved family
> >> >>> member who nearly died from a malady against which he was vaccinated.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Also, a few years ago I had an extremely scary bronchial problem. My
> >> >>> primary care physician was afraid I had whooping cough, even though we
> >> >>> both knew I had been vaccinated against it. He said post-vaccination
> >> >>> whooping cough is uncommon, but a definite possibility. (Fortunately,
> >> >>> that was not my problem.)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Then there are the many cases of post-vaccination shingles, and many
> >> >>> other diseases. These things happen. Vaccines are not as reliable as
> >> >>> light switches.
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree that no vaccine is 100% effective. However the covid vaccines
> >> >> are remarkably bad compared to other widely prescribed, let alone
> >> >> mandated, vaccines.
> >> >
> >> > So instead, the strategy should have been... what? We've heard here
> >> > that it certainly shouldn't include masks or any restrictions
> >> > affecting any business.
> >> >
> >> > Perhaps vitamin D?
> >> Here we go again: We must do something, this is something, therefore we
> >> must do this.
> >>
> >> Maybe some rational cost/benefit analysis?
> >>
> >> I still think Sweden had the right idea, and they have a lower age
> >> adjusted excess mortality rate to show it -- lower than anywhere in
> >> southern Europe and most of northern Europe, way lower than the US. And
> >> they recently suspended the Moderna shot for anyone under 30 (along with
> >> Denmark).
> >>
> >
> > https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
> >
> > Johns Hopkins website.
> > Sweden has 144.76 dead per 100K population.
> > USA is 215.63.
> > Great Britain 206.02.
> > Italy 217.52.
> > Belgium 223.34.
> > Lot of East European and South America countries are the worst.
> > Poland 199.56.
> > Lithuania 184.22.
> > Latvia 144.97.
> > Switzerland 129.74.
> > Austria 124.6.
> > Germany 113.11.
> > Netherlands 107.41.
> > Estonia 104.25.
> > Canada 74.93. USA is three times worse than Canada on Covid deaths.
> > Yeah Trump!!!!!!! We beat Canada!!!!!! MAGA!!!!!!!
> > Denmark 45.84.
> > Finland 19.73.
> > Norway 16.29.
> >
> > Norway, Finland, Denmark surround Sweden. They have beaten the SH-T
> > out of Sweden for killing people with Covid. Germany, Poland,
> > Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, also sort of surround Sweden. Sweden beat
> > Poland, Lithuania, Latvia. All former Russia controlled countries.
> >
> > Seems to me a whole lot of similar countries did a lot better than
> > Sweden. The other similar Western, Modern, Expensive, countries did
> > not let Covid run rampant and infect everyone willy nilly. With no
> > restrictions like Sweden. The USA and particularly the SE USA under
> > Republicans has taken the no restrictions and willy nilly approach,
> > and lots and lots of people are dead from Covid.
> Excess mortality is the proper measure of success. Attributing death to
> covid or some other cause is not always simple, and practices differ
> between countries. Also, people died due to the reaction to covid as
> well as the disease itself -- drug overdoses and traffic deaths both
> went up in the US, and care for non-covid diseases has been difficult.
>
> Sweden is not the winner in excess mortality, Denmark, Finland, Iceland
> and Norway all show an actual decrease. But it looks pretty good
> compared to most of the world:
>
> https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/
I don't know what is going on in other countries. Most of the so-called excess deaths in Italy were in nursing homes. These are where influenza can go wild. So, why are they blaming a disease that has never been isolated and proven to exist?

What I can say about the US is that we have yet to see one single honest body count during this supposed pandemic. I do know that only 2,000 people died in March and April of 2020. This was blamed on covid-19 but if this is a real disease, why has there not been any respiratory deaths since that time? 2021 had respiratory deaths BELOW normal.

A couple of years ago there was a meeting of Fauci and other members of the CDC where they discussed FORCED vaccinations. Rush Limbaugh played that video and it was shocking. So we know that Fauci is a criminal and should be so treated.

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > >> >> >>>
> > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> +1
> > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > >> >> virus.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > >
> > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > >
> > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > >> vaccination:
> > > >>
> > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > >>
> > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > >> #4).
> > > >
> > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > my
> > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > previously infected or not.
> > >
> > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > >
> > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > >
> > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > negligible.
> > >
> > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > malpractice.
> > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> >
> > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> >
> > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens.. Do a
> > > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> +1
> > > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > > >> >> virus.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > > >
> > > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > > >
> > > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > > >> vaccination:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > > >> #4).
> > > > >
> > > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > > my
> > > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > > previously infected or not.
> > > >
> > > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > > >
> > > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > > >
> > > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > > negligible.
> > > >
> > > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > > malpractice.
> > > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> > >
> > > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> > >
> > > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> > Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?
> Dear dope, yes a psychiatrist completes medical school and a residency . .. . in psychiatry. The residency involves giving people like you a lot of Haloperidol and a sunny spot to park their wheelchairs. It does not involve epidemiology, virology or evaluating retrospective cohort studies. There are actual epidemiologists who do that.
> >
> > Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?
> The world according to actual scientists is that different populations may have different responses to various therapies or pathogens/toxins for a number of reasons. Consider the Japanese smoking paradox: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12889681/ There are many examples.

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens.. Do a
> > > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> +1
> > > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > > >> >> virus.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > > >
> > > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > > >
> > > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > > >> vaccination:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > > >> #4).
> > > > >
> > > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > > my
> > > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > > previously infected or not.
> > > >
> > > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > > >
> > > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > > >
> > > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > > negligible.
> > > >
> > > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > > malpractice.
> > > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> > >
> > > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> > >
> > > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> > Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?
> Dear dope, yes a psychiatrist completes medical school and a residency . .. . in psychiatry. The residency involves giving people like you a lot of Haloperidol and a sunny spot to park their wheelchairs. It does not involve epidemiology, virology or evaluating retrospective cohort studies. There are actual epidemiologists who do that.
> >
> > Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?
> The world according to actual scientists is that different populations may have different responses to various therapies or pathogens/toxins for a number of reasons. Consider the Japanese smoking paradox: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12889681/ There are many examples.

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 10:28:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> > > > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> +1
> > > > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > > > >> >> virus.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > > > >> vaccination:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > > > >> #4).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > > > previously infected or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > > > >
> > > > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > > > negligible.
> > > > >
> > > > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > > > malpractice.
> > > > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> > > >
> > > > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> > > >
> > > > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> > > Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?
> > Dear dope, yes a psychiatrist completes medical school and a residency .. . . in psychiatry. The residency involves giving people like you a lot of Haloperidol and a sunny spot to park their wheelchairs. It does not involve epidemiology, virology or evaluating retrospective cohort studies. There are actual epidemiologists who do that.
> > >
> > > Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?
> > The world according to actual scientists is that different populations may have different responses to various therapies or pathogens/toxins for a number of reasons. Consider the Japanese smoking paradox: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12889681/ There are many examples.
> Dear Jay, I just told you, these people are MD's and THEN specialize by getting a PhD in psychiatry. Apparently you never looked on the wall of your own psychiatrists office.

On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 11:14:46 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 10:28:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > > > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > > > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > > > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > > > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > > > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > > > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > > > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > > > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > > > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > > > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > > > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > > > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > > > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > > > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > > > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > > > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > > > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > > > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> > > > > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> +1
> > > > > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > > > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > > > > >> >> virus.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > > > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > > > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > > > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > > > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > > > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > > > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > > > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > > > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > > > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > > > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > > > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > > > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > > > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > > > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > > > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > > > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > > > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > > > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > > > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > > > > >> vaccination:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > > > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > > > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > > > > >> #4).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it..
> > > > > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > > > > previously infected or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > > > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > > > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > > > > negligible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > > > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > > > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > > > > malpractice.
> > > > > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> > > > >
> > > > > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> > > > >
> > > > > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> > > > Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?
> > > Dear dope, yes a psychiatrist completes medical school and a residency . . . in psychiatry. The residency involves giving people like you a lot of Haloperidol and a sunny spot to park their wheelchairs. It does not involve epidemiology, virology or evaluating retrospective cohort studies. There are actual epidemiologists who do that.
> > > >
> > > > Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?
> > > The world according to actual scientists is that different populations may have different responses to various therapies or pathogens/toxins for a number of reasons. Consider the Japanese smoking paradox: https://pubmed..ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12889681/ There are many examples.
> > Dear Jay, I just told you, these people are MD's and THEN specialize by getting a PhD in psychiatry. Apparently you never looked on the wall of your own psychiatrists office.
> NO! A psychiatrist does not get an MD and then a PhD in psychiatry. A psychiatrist gets an MD and then does a four-year residency in psychiatry -- and then maybe a fellowship -- and then passes his or her boards and become a board-certified psychiatrist. Why would a medical doctor get a doctor of philosophy in the same subject? That doesn't even make sense. Maybe your psychiatrist has a PhD in some other subject or got a PhD before going to med-school.