On 23-Aug-23 12:28 pm, Ricky wrote:

> Or, you can get a paper boarding pass when the electronic one fails.

Yes, there are solutions, but if a large number of passengers suddenly
need something that most never need, it's unlikely that the airline will
be able to cope without creating significant delays. Sometimes that is
unavoidable, but in this case it could easily be avoided.

>
>
>> I've pointed this out on their Facebook page. I'm sure they'll do
>> nothing about it.
>
> Their "facebook page"??? No, that's never going to get any
> attention.
>
> It's not like airlines listen to their millions of customers. They
> don't have time for that.
>

It's more about there existing a public record of that fact that they've
been averted to the problem. If and when it hits the fan, they cannot
claim it was an issue that was never foreseen.

Sylvia

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 10:51:14 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 23-Aug-23 12:28 pm, Ricky wrote:
>
> > Or, you can get a paper boarding pass when the electronic one fails.
> Yes, there are solutions, but if a large number of passengers suddenly
> need something that most never need, it's unlikely that the airline will
> be able to cope without creating significant delays. Sometimes that is
> unavoidable, but in this case it could easily be avoided.

I hate to break it to you, but the ticket kiosks are seldom stressed and the phone boarding passes are not used that frequently... at least not at Spirit.

> >> I've pointed this out on their Facebook page. I'm sure they'll do
> >> nothing about it.
> >
> > Their "facebook page"??? No, that's never going to get any
> > attention.
> >
> > It's not like airlines listen to their millions of customers. They
> > don't have time for that.
> >
> It's more about there existing a public record of that fact that they've
> been averted to the problem. If and when it hits the fan, they cannot
> claim it was an issue that was never foreseen.

LOL! If you think a Facebook post is "official notice" of anything, you need to rethink that.

Also, shit will never hit the fan on this issue. There is no shit and there is no fan. Airlines get away with murder anyway.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 23-Aug-23 1:32 pm, Ricky wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 10:51:14 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 23-Aug-23 12:28 pm, Ricky wrote:
>>
>>> Or, you can get a paper boarding pass when the electronic one fails.
>> Yes, there are solutions, but if a large number of passengers suddenly
>> need something that most never need, it's unlikely that the airline will
>> be able to cope without creating significant delays. Sometimes that is
>> unavoidable, but in this case it could easily be avoided.
>
> I hate to break it to you, but the ticket kiosks are seldom stressed and the phone boarding passes are not used that frequently... at least not at Spirit.

Perhaps not where you live. On the flight in question, almost everyone
was using a phone boarding pass. The problem would be compounded if
people expected to do so, only to discover the moment before that it
wasn't going to work.

Sylvia.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 11:55:00 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 23-Aug-23 1:32 pm, Ricky wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 10:51:14 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 23-Aug-23 12:28 pm, Ricky wrote:
> >>
> >>> Or, you can get a paper boarding pass when the electronic one fails.
> >> Yes, there are solutions, but if a large number of passengers suddenly
> >> need something that most never need, it's unlikely that the airline will
> >> be able to cope without creating significant delays. Sometimes that is
> >> unavoidable, but in this case it could easily be avoided.
> >
> > I hate to break it to you, but the ticket kiosks are seldom stressed and the phone boarding passes are not used that frequently... at least not at Spirit.
> Perhaps not where you live. On the flight in question, almost everyone
> was using a phone boarding pass. The problem would be compounded if
> people expected to do so, only to discover the moment before that it
> wasn't going to work.

All the modern inconveniences!

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc....@4ax.com>:
> > <snip>
> > > >But has the content improved?
> > >
> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
> > > I kept a few classics.
> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.

Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.

> >
> > Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.
> >
> > https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/
> >
> > does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.
> >
> > In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.
> More libtard NONSENSE!
>
> >
> > --
> > Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> > Pretty good rant:
> >
> > https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
> >
> >
> > My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
> > you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
> > the road.
> >
> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
> safely have adjusted it while driving.

Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.

>
> On another note about inappropriately designed technology, I was using
> on-line check-in for a flight (what does it even mean to check-in
> online?). They said they'd send the boarding pass to my phone. But what
> they emailed was a link to a page that could be retrieved to show the
> boarding pass. So it wasn't on the phone.
>
> I don't have broadband access on my phone - I have almost no need for
> such a thing, and see no reason to pay for it. At check-in time, the
> airport's free WiFi was down. So I had no access to the boarding pass.

Nest time print out a backup of the pass to take with you.

>
> A work-around was found, but I can imagine chaos ensuing if a major
> mobile phone telco's network went down, and a large proportion of
> passengers could not access their boarding passes. And it seems
> completely unnecessary. All they needed to do was embed the boarding
> pass in the email.
>
> I've pointed this out on their Facebook page. I'm sure they'll do
> nothing about it.

>
> Sylvia.

On 23-Aug-23 10:01 pm, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> Pretty good rant:
>>>
>>> https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
>>>
>>>
>>> My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
>>> you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
>>> the road.
>>>
>> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
>> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
>> safely have adjusted it while driving.
>
> Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.

That's not the issue. You have to look at a touch screen to use it.

>
>>
>> On another note about inappropriately designed technology, I was using
>> on-line check-in for a flight (what does it even mean to check-in
>> online?). They said they'd send the boarding pass to my phone. But what
>> they emailed was a link to a page that could be retrieved to show the
>> boarding pass. So it wasn't on the phone.
>>
>> I don't have broadband access on my phone - I have almost no need for
>> such a thing, and see no reason to pay for it. At check-in time, the
>> airport's free WiFi was down. So I had no access to the boarding pass.
>
> Nest time print out a backup of the pass to take with you.

Funny how I thought of that before the flight out, but my printer was
too heavy to take with me on the trip to print out the one for the
flight back.

Sylvia.

On 8/23/2023 5:37 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> That's not the issue. You have to look at a touch screen to use it.

No, that's not true -- if the content is well designed.

When the "audio" screen is being displayed (selected by pressing a
physical button), I know that touching the upper left corner will
pull up the "audio sources" screen. I know that "Bluetooth"
occupies the top left (of 2 rows of 4 icons). And, that directly
below it is the "USB" icon. Because I *deliberately* arranged
them thusly (the AM, FM, Disk, CD, etc. other selections aren't
of use to me so delegate them to the far reaches of the screen).

I could similarly select "BT" or "USB" using the on-steeringwheel
buttons... but, that would require me to glance down at another
screen between the tach and speedo -- so, the touchscreen is
the more efficient, least distracting option.

When SWMBO drives, the audio sources screen has a different layout
that favors HER typical choices (Disk and FM). With 6 radio presets
on the radio screen, she can similarly pick the one she wants
because it's always WHERE SHE PUT IT.

OTOH, if she wanted to boost the treble response, she'd likely
have to pull over and figure out how to *get* to that screen,
then how to alter the treble setting (vs. bass).

And, if she wanted to reconfigure the navigation system
to favor faster routes (instead of SHORTER), she'd definitely
have to pull over as the car wouldn't let her access a setting
that "deep" in the user interface while driving.

Touchscreens work when they are uncluttered, focused (in purpose)
and large enough that controls need not be accessed with the
tip of a pen. They fail, miserably, when some dolt decides to
cram lots of stuff on the screen and make the active areas for
each control too small -- a common problem with web pages.

Your problem/excuse is the foreign-ness of the particular
vehicle. Had you driven it regularly, I suspect you would
instinctively know how to access the controls.

[It seldom rains, here. The front and rear wiper/washer controls
are on a stick mounted on the steering column. Sorting out
how to turn on the FRONT wipers among their various settings
(off/intermittent/low/med/fast/wipe-once) is always a guessing
game. Because its impossible to read the legend while driving.
Instead, you tweek it and see what happens. If the wipers
wipe once and never again, then you've obviously activated
the wipe-once control; try again. If they wipe and then sit
for many seconds and you KNOW you've not activated the wipe-once,
then you've obviously activated the intermittent setting; if
this is what you want, then find something that seems like it
adjusts the "wipe period". Etc. Back wiper? If the front
wiper engages, then you've picked the wrong control; try again!]

Most settings in a car are convenience related. The safety related
issues are usually automatic. E.g., tap the brake and the cruise
control will disengage. The airbags will deploy regardless of
your explicit actions. etc.

If you don't like the way the stereo's volume adjust based on
travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48?PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
>> >
>> > Pretty good rant:
>> >
>> > https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
>> >
>> >
>> > My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
>> > you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
>> > the road.
>> >
>> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
>> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
>> safely have adjusted it while driving.
>
>Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.

That would have to be a week-long online training course, with road
test.

My Audi has all incrmental pushbutton controls, little black-on-black
pushbuttons. I've never learned how to set things without looking away
from the road.

It's good that the gas and brake pedals are pretty much standardized.
The transmission and parking brake aren't.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
>> > <snip>
>> > > >But has the content improved?
>> > >
>> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
>> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
>> > > I kept a few classics.
>> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
>> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
>
>Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
>
>Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
>
>

The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:32:56 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48?PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Pretty good rant:
> >> >
> >> > https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
> >> > you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
> >> > the road.
> >> >
> >> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
> >> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
> >> safely have adjusted it while driving.
> >
> >Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.
> That would have to be a week-long online training course, with road
> test.
>
> My Audi has all incrmental pushbutton controls, little black-on-black
> pushbuttons. I've never learned how to set things without looking away
> from the road.

That's where voice control can make for a big improvement.

"Car, put fan on high speed."

"Car, defrost windshield."

>
> It's good that the gas and brake pedals are pretty much standardized.
> The transmission and parking brake aren't.

The industry settled on the pedal location quite early on. The brake and accelerator locations are close together so the driver uses the same foot to activate them. Meaning you have take foot off accelerator to brake and vice versa.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
> >> > <snip>
> >> > > >But has the content improved?
> >> > >
> >> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
> >> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
> >> > > I kept a few classics.
> >> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
> >> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
> >
> >Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
> >
> >Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
> >
> >
> The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
> with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.

I've all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:37:25 AM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 23-Aug-23 10:01 pm, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Pretty good rant:
> >>>
> >>> https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
> >>> you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
> >>> the road.
> >>>
> >> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
> >> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
> >> safely have adjusted it while driving.
> >
> > Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.
> That's not the issue. You have to look at a touch screen to use it.

Okay, but even that shouldn't be a problem if the display is backlit and symbols are big enough. What make/ model was it?

> >
> >>
> >> On another note about inappropriately designed technology, I was using
> >> on-line check-in for a flight (what does it even mean to check-in
> >> online?). They said they'd send the boarding pass to my phone. But what
> >> they emailed was a link to a page that could be retrieved to show the
> >> boarding pass. So it wasn't on the phone.
> >>
> >> I don't have broadband access on my phone - I have almost no need for
> >> such a thing, and see no reason to pay for it. At check-in time, the
> >> airport's free WiFi was down. So I had no access to the boarding pass.
> >
> > Nest time print out a backup of the pass to take with you.
> Funny how I thought of that before the flight out, but my printer was
> too heavy to take with me on the trip to print out the one for the
> flight back.

Can't you save the boarding pass as a JPG to Gallery folder or something similar?

>
> Sylvia.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
>> >> > <snip>
>> >> > > >But has the content improved?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
>> >> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
>> >> > > I kept a few classics.
>> >> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
>> >> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
>> >
>> >Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
>> >
>> >Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
>> >
>> >
>> The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
>> with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.
>
>I've all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.

The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I've
discovered manufacturers that I didn't know existed, or found that
Littlefuse now makes mosfets.

Mouser is crazy. Ask a simple question and it complains about too many
parameters, or ignores a selection, or finds nothing.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>>> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>> >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>>> >> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>> >> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
>>> >> > <snip>
>>> >> > > >But has the content improved?
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
>>> >> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
>>> >> > > I kept a few classics.
>>> >> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
>>> >> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
>>> >
>>> >Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
>>> >
>>> >Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
>>> with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.
>>
>>I've all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.
>
>The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I've
>discovered manufacturers that I didn't know existed, or found that
>Littlefuse now makes mosfets.

All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
many are corrupt. I'd complain but I'd have to fill out a giant form.

"The easiest thing in the world is not to sell."

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:38:34 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
> <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >>> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >>> >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> >> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >>> >> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
> >>> >> > <snip>
> >>> >> > > >But has the content improved?
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
> >>> >> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
> >>> >> > > I kept a few classics.
> >>> >> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
> >>> >> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
> >>> >
> >>> >Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
> >>> >
> >>> >Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
> >>> with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.
> >>
> >>I've all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.
> >
> >The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I've
> >discovered manufacturers that I didn't know existed, or found that
> >Littlefuse now makes mosfets.
> All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
> many are corrupt. I'd complain but I'd have to fill out a giant form.
>
> "The easiest thing in the world is not to sell."

The search engines for Digi-Key and Mouser have the intelligence level of a 5-year-old; it's better than nothing, but not by much. Even the numerical sort gets confused. If the number of products is < 100 it is manageable, but if you are looking thru 1000's it breaks down fast. Just try to find an electrolytic cap that is in certain F range AND size range AND termination.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:14:06 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:38:34?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> >>> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> >>> >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> >>> >> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >>> >> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
>> >>> >> > <snip>
>> >>> >> > > >But has the content improved?
>> >>> >> > >
>> >>> >> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
>> >>> >> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
>> >>> >> > > I kept a few classics.
>> >>> >> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
>> >>> >> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
>> >>> with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.
>> >>
>> >>I've all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.
>> >
>> >The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I've
>> >discovered manufacturers that I didn't know existed, or found that
>> >Littlefuse now makes mosfets.
>> All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
>> many are corrupt. I'd complain but I'd have to fill out a giant form.
>>
>> "The easiest thing in the world is not to sell."
>
>The search engines for Digi-Key and Mouser have the intelligence level of a 5-year-old; it's better than nothing, but not by much. Even the numerical sort gets confused. If the number of products is < 100 it is manageable, but if you are looking thru 1000's it breaks down fast. Just try to find an electrolytic cap that is in certain F range AND size range AND termination.

You can sort on capacitance and grunt through the rest.

When I specify several parameter ranges in the selection boxes, both
the Digikey and Mouser search tend to mess up. Mouser is worse.

Lately, the 'datasheet' link takes me to another web site that may or
may not be helpful. I guess it's hard to maintain the search engine
for a million parts.

I spend a lot of time looking for parts.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:23:48 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:32:56 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48?PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Pretty good rant:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
> > >> > you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
> > >> > the road.
> > >> >
> > >> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
> > >> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
> > >> safely have adjusted it while driving.
> > >
> > >Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.
> > That would have to be a week-long online training course, with road
> > test.
> >
> > My Audi has all incrmental pushbutton controls, little black-on-black
> > pushbuttons. I've never learned how to set things without looking away
> > from the road.
> That's where voice control can make for a big improvement.
>
> "Car, put fan on high speed."
>
> "Car, defrost windshield."

I have that, but I haven't completed the training. I mean, I haven't memorized the voice controls listed in the manual. I mean, there's no fucking info on what you can do by voice and nothing in the manual about it.

I can bump my fan speed up or down, but I can't know what setting it's on. I still have to punch a tiny button to bring up the climate control screen..

> > It's good that the gas and brake pedals are pretty much standardized.
> > The transmission and parking brake aren't.
> The industry settled on the pedal location quite early on. The brake and accelerator locations are close together so the driver uses the same foot to activate them. Meaning you have take foot off accelerator to brake and vice versa.

You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it's an emergency stop. It's actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don't need to use the brake pedal at a light, I'll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

onsdag den 23. august 2023 kl. 22.13.22 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:23:48 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:32:56 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48?PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > >> On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Pretty good rant:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > My wife's Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
> > > >> > you grab a knob and turn it. You don't even have to take your eyes off
> > > >> > the road.
> > > >> >
> > > >> A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
> > > >> screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there's no way I could
> > > >> safely have adjusted it while driving.
> > > >
> > > >Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.
> > > That would have to be a week-long online training course, with road
> > > test.
> > >
> > > My Audi has all incrmental pushbutton controls, little black-on-black
> > > pushbuttons. I've never learned how to set things without looking away
> > > from the road.
> > That's where voice control can make for a big improvement.
> >
> > "Car, put fan on high speed."
> >
> > "Car, defrost windshield."
> I have that, but I haven't completed the training. I mean, I haven't memorized the voice controls listed in the manual. I mean, there's no fucking info on what you can do by voice and nothing in the manual about it.
>
> I can bump my fan speed up or down, but I can't know what setting it's on.. I still have to punch a tiny button to bring up the climate control screen.
> > > It's good that the gas and brake pedals are pretty much standardized.
> > > The transmission and parking brake aren't.
> > The industry settled on the pedal location quite early on. The brake and accelerator locations are close together so the driver uses the same foot to activate them. Meaning you have take foot off accelerator to brake and vice versa.
> You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it's an emergency stop. It's actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don't need to use the brake pedal at a light, I'll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.
>

try noticing how the brake lights work ...

On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:

> If you don't like the way the stereo's volume adjust based on
> travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.
>

When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me ten
minutes to figure out how to silence it.

Sylvia.

On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 13:54:47 UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
....
> > You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it's an emergency stop. It's actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don't need to use the brake pedal at a light, I'll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.
> >
> try noticing how the brake lights work ...

The brake lights work just fine when using one-pedal driving.

It is a Federal (and similar organizations in other countries) requirement that the brake lights operate whenever the vehicle has retardation of greater than about 0.15g whether by braking (where the normal switch on the brake pedal operates the lights) or where the braking is due to other means such as regeneration.

All EVs are designed to operate this way although Consumer Reports reported that not all cars met the standard.

kw

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:14:33 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:14:06 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
> <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:38:34?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
> >> <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >> >>> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >> >>> >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>> >> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >> >>> >> > > >On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
> >> >>> >> > <snip>
> >> >>> >> > > >But has the content improved?
> >> >>> >> > >
> >> >>> >> > > Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
> >> >>> >> > In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
> >> >>> >> > > I kept a few classics.
> >> >>> >> > Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
> >> >>> >> Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
> >> >>> with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser's.
> >> >>
> >> >>I've all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.
> >> >
> >> >The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I've
> >> >discovered manufacturers that I didn't know existed, or found that
> >> >Littlefuse now makes mosfets.
> >> All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
> >> many are corrupt. I'd complain but I'd have to fill out a giant form.
> >>
> >> "The easiest thing in the world is not to sell."
> >
> >The search engines for Digi-Key and Mouser have the intelligence level of a 5-year-old; it's better than nothing, but not by much. Even the numerical sort gets confused. If the number of products is < 100 it is manageable, but if you are looking thru 1000's it breaks down fast. Just try to find an electrolytic cap that is in certain F range AND size range AND termination.
> You can sort on capacitance and grunt through the rest.
>
> When I specify several parameter ranges in the selection boxes, both
> the Digikey and Mouser search tend to mess up. Mouser is worse.
>
> Lately, the 'datasheet' link takes me to another web site that may or
> may not be helpful. I guess it's hard to maintain the search engine
> for a million parts.
>
> I spend a lot of time looking for parts.

You can, but why SHOULD YOU? Even the numerical sort has issues...

On 8/23/2023 5:01 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:
>
>> If you don't like the way the stereo's volume adjust based on
>> travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.
>>
>
> When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me ten minutes
> to figure out how to silence it.

No volume/power button near the controls?

Cars designed for single owners don't fare well when shared
(as in a rental/fleet application). The assumption is that
THE owner/operator will be next to use the vehicle and, so,
however it was left is likely how it will want to be seen,
next.

[Imagine sharing a phone with someone]

On 8/23/2023 5:55 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
>> try noticing how the brake lights work ...
>
> The brake lights work just fine when using one-pedal driving.
>
> It is a Federal (and similar organizations in other countries) requirement that the brake lights operate whenever the vehicle has retardation of greater than about 0.15g whether by braking (where the normal switch on the brake pedal operates the lights) or where the braking is due to other means such as regeneration.

So, when I downshift, my brake lights come on (as suggested by the fact that
my torso moves uncontrollably forward towards the steering wheel)

That should be easy to test...

> All EVs are designed to operate this way although Consumer Reports reported that not all cars met the standard.
>
> kw

On 24-Aug-23 1:12 pm, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/23/2023 5:01 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:
>>
>>> If you don't like the way the stereo's volume adjust based on
>>> travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.
>>>
>>
>> When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me
>> ten minutes to figure out how to silence it.
>
> No volume/power button near the controls?

Not that I could find. Indeed, I wasn't able to find any radio controls
at all, on the touch screen or otherwise. Eventually I found the volume
controls on the touch screen and just muted it.

>
> Cars designed for single owners don't fare well when shared
> (as in a rental/fleet application).  The assumption is that
> THE owner/operator will be next to use the vehicle and, so,
> however it was left is likely how it will want to be seen,
> next.
>
> [Imagine sharing a phone with someone]
>

It expect these things are like the video recorders of old, where most
owners never learn how to use most of the features.

Sylvia.