On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 9:22:28 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 10:40:30 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > On 20.01.2022 18:20, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > Compare dear to door
> >
> > Dear, precious, valued, expensive
> > Dorogo@Rus: dear
> > Duur@Dut: dear
> > Teuer@Ger: dear
> > Dyr@Dan: dear
> Tear(drip) vs tear(rip)(riparian?)
> through/trough/trench/drench/drainage/dry/drought/draught/draft

Also drift thus probably driven (snow).

All from njambuangDUAluA, thick.thru.out.lane/li(n)e/law/leave.s/n

> > > >"My own preference of translating Duro- as ‘crossing’
> > > >(and related to, or influenced by, Dutch door and German durch
> > > >‘through’)
> > > >durch, through & thorough: kinship => Gael. Þair, IE *ter-, *tr "through"
> > >
> > > And not only Dutch for "door", but also in German: die Tür, Türe, Dür,
> > > Düre, Low German Döör /dœɐ̯ (??)/, Tia, Dia /tɪə, dɪə/ - or in a seeming-
> > > ly more appropriate, narrow transcription /tiɐ̯, diɐ̯/, depending on
> > > regional Germ. pronunciations. The standard German pronunciation Tür
> > > /tyːɐ̯/.
> > >
> > > The pronunciation of the final -r- /r/ and /ʁ/ is rare; rather usual
> > > in some areas of Southern (Alemanian-Suebian) and Northern Germany, and
> > > esp. in Switzerland Alemanian and some (also Alemanian) areas of
> > > Austria, as well as in the German regional varieties of still existing
> > > German exclaves in Eastern Europe and ex-USSR.
> > >
> > > - cf. the medieval painting celebrity Albrecht Dürer (Durer, Duerer)
> > > from Nuremberg, his name would be a verbatim "'doorer', doorman" in
> > > Engl.; and was the mere translation from Hungarian Ajtós(i)
> > > /'ɔɪtoːʃ(ɪ)/, i.e., his Hungarian father's surname
> > >
> > > So Engl. door also has German kinship, basicly Tür/Dür/Döör.
> > > >Hmm, this reminds me of room/doom/gloom puzzle, I think doom
> > > >and gloom both had a middle 'r' later lost, room/do(r)om>/glo(r)om;
> > > >this would better match Mbuti mongolu dome ~ Malay mengelap darken
> > > >and Grk mela.
> > > NB: the usage of room in English has a restricted/limited range,
> > > as compared with the usage of its German kin _Raum_, which
> > > in general means "space" and "spaciousness".
> > >
> > > Even the adjective (which today is rarer and specialized, restricted
> > > in use) raum "spacious, open" (in forests) & "wide" (in sailors' jargon)
> > > <= Old High German rumi "spacious, wide"; cf. Goth. rums "spacious"
> > > <= Germanic *ruma "spacious", IE *reu- "wide, distant"
> > >
> > > another (modern) German adj. geräumig "spacious".
> > >
> > > noun Raum means
> > > - various types of "rooms" & "halls"
> > > - "space" (all kinds of it) in general;
> > > - "the outer space" = "Cosmos" (with its German synonym ... _All_).
> > > (along with "spatial") e.g. Raum & Zeit "Space and Time."
> > >
> > > As well as the noun Räumlichkeit, plural Räumlichkeiten, for
> > > the meaning "room, hall" etc, whenever it is not specified
> > > (usually in housing & realtors' contexts) what kind of
> > > dwelling, bureau, industrial roomings/spaces/halls. Any kind of
> > > them. (Also based on the old ... Raum. And the /au/ in it has
> > > been the development out of a long /u:/, e.g. very old German
> > > /rumi/ and the Raum (after the appropriate sound shift), which
> > > in English hasn't yet been diphtonged, /ru:m/ :-))
> > >
> > > As for drom-, look up the Greek word dromos/δρόμος (as well the Romani
> > > (Gypsy) equivalent thereof: drom), meaning "way, road, path(way),
> > > street, route, track."
> > >
> > > Tim

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 2:31:54 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 9:22:28 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 10:40:30 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > On 20.01.2022 18:20, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > Compare dear to door
> > >
> > > Dear, precious, valued, expensive
> > > Dorogo@Rus: dear
> > > Duur@Dut: dear
> > > Teuer@Ger: dear
> > > Dyr@Dan: dear
> > Tear(drip) vs tear(rip)(riparian?)
> > through/trough/trench/drench/drainage/dry/drought/draught/draft
> Also drift thus probably driven (snow).
>
> All from njambuangDUAlua, thick.thru.out.lane/li(n)e/law/leave.s/n

DuALUATl/Daleth/delta/D
DUALua door

> > > > >"My own preference of translating Duro- as ‘crossing’
> > > > >(and related to, or influenced by, Dutch door and German durch
> > > > >‘through’)
> > > > >durch, through & thorough: kinship => Gael. Þair, IE *ter-, *tr "through"
> > > >
> > > > And not only Dutch for "door", but also in German: die Tür, Türe, Dür,
> > > > Düre, Low German Döör /dœɐ̯ (??)/, Tia, Dia /tɪə, dɪə/ - or in a seeming-
> > > > ly more appropriate, narrow transcription /tiɐ̯, diɐ̯/, depending on
> > > > regional Germ. pronunciations. The standard German pronunciation Tür
> > > > /tyːɐ̯/.
> > > >
> > > > The pronunciation of the final -r- /r/ and /ʁ/ is rare; rather usual
> > > > in some areas of Southern (Alemanian-Suebian) and Northern Germany, and
> > > > esp. in Switzerland Alemanian and some (also Alemanian) areas of
> > > > Austria, as well as in the German regional varieties of still existing
> > > > German exclaves in Eastern Europe and ex-USSR.
> > > >
> > > > - cf. the medieval painting celebrity Albrecht Dürer (Durer, Duerer)
> > > > from Nuremberg, his name would be a verbatim "'doorer', doorman" in
> > > > Engl.; and was the mere translation from Hungarian Ajtós(i)
> > > > /'ɔɪtoːʃ(ɪ)/, i.e., his Hungarian father's surname
> > > >
> > > > So Engl. door also has German kinship, basicly Tür/Dür/Döör.
> > > > >Hmm, this reminds me of room/doom/gloom puzzle, I think doom
> > > > >and gloom both had a middle 'r' later lost, room/do(r)om>/glo(r)om;
> > > > >this would better match Mbuti mongolu dome ~ Malay mengelap darken
> > > > >and Grk mela.
> > > > NB: the usage of room in English has a restricted/limited range,
> > > > as compared with the usage of its German kin _Raum_, which
> > > > in general means "space" and "spaciousness".
> > > >
> > > > Even the adjective (which today is rarer and specialized, restricted
> > > > in use) raum "spacious, open" (in forests) & "wide" (in sailors' jargon)
> > > > <= Old High German rumi "spacious, wide"; cf. Goth. rums "spacious"
> > > > <= Germanic *ruma "spacious", IE *reu- "wide, distant"
> > > >
> > > > another (modern) German adj. geräumig "spacious".
> > > >
> > > > noun Raum means
> > > > - various types of "rooms" & "halls"
> > > > - "space" (all kinds of it) in general;
> > > > - "the outer space" = "Cosmos" (with its German synonym ... _All_).
> > > > (along with "spatial") e.g. Raum & Zeit "Space and Time."
> > > >
> > > > As well as the noun Räumlichkeit, plural Räumlichkeiten, for
> > > > the meaning "room, hall" etc, whenever it is not specified
> > > > (usually in housing & realtors' contexts) what kind of
> > > > dwelling, bureau, industrial roomings/spaces/halls. Any kind of
> > > > them. (Also based on the old ... Raum. And the /au/ in it has
> > > > been the development out of a long /u:/, e.g. very old German
> > > > /rumi/ and the Raum (after the appropriate sound shift), which
> > > > in English hasn't yet been diphtonged, /ru:m/ :-))
> > > >
> > > > As for drom-, look up the Greek word dromos/δρόμος (as well the Romani
> > > > (Gypsy) equivalent thereof: drom), meaning "way, road, path(way),
> > > > street, route, track."
> > > >
> > > > Tim

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 4:05:35 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 2:31:54 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 9:22:28 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 10:40:30 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > On 20.01.2022 18:20, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > Compare dear to door
> > > >
> > > > Dear, precious, valued, expensive
> > > > Dorogo@Rus: dear
> > > > Duur@Dut: dear
> > > > Teuer@Ger: dear
> > > > Dyr@Dan: dear
> > > Tear(drip) vs tear(rip)(riparian?)
> > > through/trough/trench/drench/drainage/dry/drought/draught/draft
> > Also drift thus probably driven (snow).
> >
> > All from njambuangDUAlua, thick.thru.out.lane/li(n)e/law/leave.s/n
>
> DuALUATl/Daleth/delta/D
> DUALua door

Hungarian Ajtós(i) Doorman (gate guard?)

Ajtos ~ njambuAnGDUATla which does include gate & guard & door

> > > > /'ɔɪtoːʃ(ɪ)/, i.e., his Hungarian father's surname

> > > > > >"My own preference of translating Duro- as ‘crossing’
> > > > > >(and related to, or influenced by, Dutch door and German durch
> > > > > >‘through’)
> > > > > >durch, through & thorough: kinship => Gael. Þair, IE *ter-, *tr "through"
> > > > >
> > > > > And not only Dutch for "door", but also in German: die Tür, Türe, Dür,
> > > > > Düre, Low German Döör /dœɐ̯ (??)/, Tia, Dia /tɪə, dɪə/ - or in a seeming-
> > > > > ly more appropriate, narrow transcription /tiɐ̯, diɐ̯/, depending on
> > > > > regional Germ. pronunciations. The standard German pronunciation Tür
> > > > > /tyːɐ̯/.
> > > > >
> > > > > The pronunciation of the final -r- /r/ and /ʁ/ is rare; rather usual
> > > > > in some areas of Southern (Alemanian-Suebian) and Northern Germany, and
> > > > > esp. in Switzerland Alemanian and some (also Alemanian) areas of
> > > > > Austria, as well as in the German regional varieties of still existing
> > > > > German exclaves in Eastern Europe and ex-USSR.
> > > > >
> > > > > - cf. the medieval painting celebrity Albrecht Dürer (Durer, Duerer)
> > > > > from Nuremberg, his name would be a verbatim "'doorer', doorman" in
> > > > > Engl.; and was the mere translation from Hungarian Ajtós(i)
> > > > > /'ɔɪtoːʃ(ɪ)/, i.e., his Hungarian father's surname
> > > > >
> > > > > So Engl. door also has German kinship, basicly Tür/Dür/Döör.
> > > > > >Hmm, this reminds me of room/doom/gloom puzzle, I think doom
> > > > > >and gloom both had a middle 'r' later lost, room/do(r)om>/glo(r)om;
> > > > > >this would better match Mbuti mongolu dome ~ Malay mengelap darken
> > > > > >and Grk mela.
> > > > > NB: the usage of room in English has a restricted/limited range,
> > > > > as compared with the usage of its German kin _Raum_, which
> > > > > in general means "space" and "spaciousness".
> > > > >
> > > > > Even the adjective (which today is rarer and specialized, restricted
> > > > > in use) raum "spacious, open" (in forests) & "wide" (in sailors' jargon)
> > > > > <= Old High German rumi "spacious, wide"; cf. Goth. rums "spacious"
> > > > > <= Germanic *ruma "spacious", IE *reu- "wide, distant"
> > > > >
> > > > > another (modern) German adj. geräumig "spacious".
> > > > >
> > > > > noun Raum means
> > > > > - various types of "rooms" & "halls"
> > > > > - "space" (all kinds of it) in general;
> > > > > - "the outer space" = "Cosmos" (with its German synonym ... _All_).
> > > > > (along with "spatial") e.g. Raum & Zeit "Space and Time."
> > > > >
> > > > > As well as the noun Räumlichkeit, plural Räumlichkeiten, for
> > > > > the meaning "room, hall" etc, whenever it is not specified
> > > > > (usually in housing & realtors' contexts) what kind of
> > > > > dwelling, bureau, industrial roomings/spaces/halls. Any kind of
> > > > > them. (Also based on the old ... Raum. And the /au/ in it has
> > > > > been the development out of a long /u:/, e.g. very old German
> > > > > /rumi/ and the Raum (after the appropriate sound shift), which
> > > > > in English hasn't yet been diphtonged, /ru:m/ :-))
> > > > >
> > > > > As for drom-, look up the Greek word dromos/δρόμος (as well the Romani
> > > > > (Gypsy) equivalent thereof: drom), meaning "way, road, path(way),
> > > > > street, route, track."
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim

On 13.02.2022 01:00, Daud Deden wrote:

>Hungarian Ajtós(i) Doorman (gate guard?)

Lacking a context, the word _ajtós_ doesn't disclose anything.
I.e. one cannot know what the person does at that door. Or
whether it rather has the meaning: (a specialized) "cabinetmaker
/woodworker," who makes and installs doors & windows, and per-
haps even some gates.

The same applies to its translation into German: Türer also
written Dürer (today old-fashioned, but still whole lotta surnames
based on Dür-, Dühr-, Thür-, Thier-) ....

..... doesn't disclose itself what exactly the assumed "doorman"
actually does (or did ... centuries ago):

whether he makes doors & the like (as a "carpenter" or "cabinet-
maker") or is a mere ... "bouncer." Or some piece of vague memory:
an ancestor's house was near/by a door (in some Burg or bridge
construction part) or some place called "door". Or the ancestor
had some function/duty on behalf of the "upper crust" at a "door."

In most of such cases such a surname was an initial nickname.

Yet in the case of Albrecht Dürer's father, Ajtós is said to
have been the _place name_ of his _village_ in Hungary, from where
Dürer Sr. migrated to South Germany. (I don't know whether this
detail is correct, i.e. confirmed by historian experts.)

>Ajtos ~ njambuAnGDUATla which does include gate & guard & door

The main word here is ajtó /'ɔɪtɔː - 'ɔjtɔː/ "door."
Ajtós is only an "extension", i.e. a derivation of ajtó.

[The ending -s in the derivate ajtós /'ɔɪtɔːʃ/ plays the suffix
role as -ish and -er in English; or in -(a/e/i/o/u)tor and
-arius in Latin.]

But larger ajtók (-k: plural) are called in Hungarians ... kapu /'kɔpʊ/
(plur. kapuk) "gate;" Romance "porta/porte/puerta" & al.; German "Tor".
By and large, Hungarian gates are called kapu/k, not ajtó/k.

E.g. the saying "Hannibal ante portas!" is rendered in Hungarian
as: "Hannibál a kapuk előtt!"

E.g. the "Iron Gates" - the Danube gorge at the Serbian-Romanian border
is called in Hungarian: "Vaskapu" (verbatim "iron gate"), and, BTW, in
Serbian: Đerdapska /dʒer-/ klisura and Gvozdena kapija.

Compare Hung. kapu <=> Turkish & Turkic: kapı/kapu; Serbian/Croatian
/Bosnian as well as in FYROM-Macedonian: kapija.

Tim

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 5:00:59 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 13.02.2022 01:00, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> >Hungarian Ajtós(i) Doorman (gate guard?)
> Lacking a context, the word _ajtós_ doesn't disclose anything.
> I.e. one cannot know what the person does at that door. Or
> whether it rather has the meaning: (a specialized) "cabinetmaker
> /woodworker," who makes and installs doors & windows, and per-
> haps even some gates.
>
> The same applies to its translation into German: Türer also
> written Dürer (today old-fashioned, but still whole lotta surnames
> based on Dür-, Dühr-, Thür-, Thier-) ....
>
> .... doesn't disclose itself what exactly the assumed "doorman"
> actually does (or did ... centuries ago):
>
> whether he makes doors & the like (as a "carpenter" or "cabinet-
> maker") or is a mere ... "bouncer." Or some piece of vague memory:
> an ancestor's house was near/by a door (in some Burg or bridge
> construction part) or some place called "door". Or the ancestor
> had some function/duty on behalf of the "upper crust" at a "door."
>
> In most of such cases such a surname was an initial nickname.
>
> Yet in the case of Albrecht Dürer's father, Ajtós is said to
> have been the _place name_ of his _village_ in Hungary, from where
> Dürer Sr. migrated to South Germany. (I don't know whether this
> detail is correct, i.e. confirmed by historian experts.)
> >Ajtos ~ njambuAnGDUATla which does include gate & guard & door
> The main word here is ajtó /'ɔɪtɔː - 'ɔjtɔː/ "door."
> Ajtós is only an "extension", i.e. a derivation of ajtó.

Ajtó ~ njambuAnGDUAtlua

> [The ending -s in the derivate ajtós /'ɔɪtɔːʃ/ plays the suffix
> role as -ish and -er in English; or in -(a/e/i/o/u)tor and
> -arius in Latin.]

So the name may not even be connected to door, but probably so.

> But larger ajtók (-k: plural) are called in Hungarians ... kapu /'kɔpʊ/
> (plur. kapuk) "gate;" Romance "porta/porte/puerta" & al.; German "Tor".
> By and large, Hungarian gates are called kapu/k, not ajtó/k.
>
> E.g. the saying "Hannibal ante portas!" is rendered in Hungarian
> as: "Hannibál a kapuk előtt!"
>
> E.g. the "Iron Gates" - the Danube gorge at the Serbian-Romanian border
> is called in Hungarian: "Vaskapu" (verbatim "iron gate"), and, BTW, in
> Serbian: Đerdapska /dʒer-/ klisura and Gvozdena kapija.
>
> Compare Hung. kapu <=> Turkish & Turkic: kapı/kapu; Serbian/Croatian
> /Bosnian as well as in FYROM-Macedonian: kapija.
>
> Tim

Thanks, good points.
XyuAmBUa.tl (tl = dual? Cf tletl = 2 fire sticks
Kapu(k)@Hng: gat.e(s)
Kapas@Mly: cot.ton, kapok

Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
Entre entour into(r)

On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:

>Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
>Entre entour into(r)

(I) INTER/INTRA

entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
interior" &c.

inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
Sanscrit antar.

(ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-

Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
"(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".

forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
"stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
(esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).

French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").

(iii) DURARE, DURATIO

And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".

(iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-

OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
"water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
etc.

(v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche

entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
cut" > trench ("ditch"); tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).

Tim

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> >Entre entour into(r)
> (I) INTER/INTRA
>
> entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> interior" &c.
>
> inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> Sanscrit antar.

Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?

> (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
>
> Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".

ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell

> forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
>
> French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
>
> (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
>
> And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".

Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational

>
> (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
>
> OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> etc.

atl@Azt: water
*wahir@OMly: water
(njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA

> (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
>
> entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> cut" > trench ("ditch");

Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land

tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
>
> Tim

Thanks, great. Add this:
Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > >Entre entour into(r)
> > (I) INTER/INTRA
> >
> > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > interior" &c.
> >
> > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > Sanscrit antar.
> Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> >
> > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> >
> > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> >
> > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> >
> > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> >
> > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> >
> > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > etc.
> atl@Azt: water
> *wahir@OMly: water
> (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA

nokogiri@Jpn: saw/serrated/over-under/up&down
NjUAm(bh/K)UAnGdUATLUA
NUAKUAGUARUA NOKOGYRY? (uncertain)

> > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> >
> > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> >
> > Tim
> Thanks, great. Add this:
> Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:39:55 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > >
> > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > interior" &c.
> > >
> > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > Sanscrit antar.
> > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > >
> > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > >
> > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > >
> > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > >
> > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > >
> > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > >
> > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > etc.
> > atl@Azt: water
> > *wahir@OMly: water
> > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> nokogiri@Jpn: saw/serrated/over-under/up&down
> NjUAm(bh/K)UAnGdUATLUA
> NUAKUAGUARUA NOKOGYRY? (uncertain)

This Japanese word for a pull-stroke saw, nokogiri, is hard to parse.
Clues:
Kerf@Egl: width of cut (surf? cur.rent?)
Kir@Jpn: cut
Ka(r)s@Chn: cut?
Noko@Ainu: saw
wakka@Ainu: water
Nohogiri@Jpn: saw
Gyre, gyro? meandering stream cuts banks

http://no-sword.jp/blog/2008/01/the_mysterious_saw.html

Puzzling.

> > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > >
> > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > >
> > > Tim
> > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > >Entre entour into(r)
> > (I) INTER/INTRA
> >
> > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > interior" &c.
> >
> > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > Sanscrit antar.
> Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> >
> > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> >
> > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> >
> > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> >
> > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> >
> > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> >
> > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > etc.
> atl@Azt: water
> *wahir@OMly: water
> (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> >
> > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> >
> > Tim
> Thanks, great. Add this:
> Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
Quibble

Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > >
> > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > interior" &c.
> > >
> > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > Sanscrit antar.
> > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > >
> > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > >
> > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > >
> > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > >
> > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > >
> > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > >
> > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > etc.
> > atl@Azt: water
> > *wahir@OMly: water
> > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > >
> > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > >
> > > Tim
> > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> Quibble
>
> Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.

Hominoid nest building

Mountain gorilla makes ground nest, note that leaves are fern-like, not large broadleaves which could shed rain. A thick fur coat is appropriate.
https://youtu.be/dgew4x_quTo

Chimp making arboreal bowl nest, see 9:30 mother lies in "hammock" while toddler tries making a nest. A chimp will make almost 20,000 nests in a lifetime.
Note leaves are small broadleaves used to line nest interior
https://youtu.be/mPso9UIbH-8

Human making forest floor dome hut of woven wicker (slender saplings) and large broadleaf shingles used to line exterior.
https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords

All great apes & humans handweave over-under, lesser apes and other primates do not.

Sinewave speech synthesis
https://youtu.be/EWzt1bI8AZ0

Oldest wave drawing ~500,000 clamshell etching by Java Man /\/\/\/\/
https://youtu.be/7CO--YQHznY in Dutch

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > >
> > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > interior" &c.
> > >
> > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > Sanscrit antar.
> > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > >
> > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > >
> > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > >
> > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > >
> > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > >
> > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > >
> > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > etc.
> > atl@Azt: water
> > *wahir@OMly: water
> > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > >
> > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > >
> > > Tim
> > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> Quibble
>
> Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.

Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.

To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
En- trench, entre-
Entrance ~ entrench

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > >
> > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > interior" &c.
> > > >
> > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > >
> > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > >
> > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania")..
> > > >
> > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > >
> > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > >
> > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > >
> > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > etc.
> > > atl@Azt: water
> > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > >
> > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > Quibble
> >
> > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
>
>
> To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> En- trench, entre-
> Entrance ~ entrench

Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN

Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.

center (n.)
late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > >
> > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > >
> > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > >
> > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > >
> > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > >
> > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > >
> > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > >
> > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > >
> > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > etc.
> > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > >
> > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim
> > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > Quibble
> > >
> > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> >
> >
> > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > En- trench, entre-
> > Entrance ~ entrench
> Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
>
> Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
>
> center (n.)
> late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").

When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
Need word lists!!

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > >
> > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > >
> > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tim
> > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > Quibble
> > > >
> > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > >
> > >
> > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > En- trench, entre-
> > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> >
> > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> >
> > center (n.)
> > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> Need word lists!!

I've found none of Pygmy words.

Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec

Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli

their spine; their thorn: inhitzio

huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
iztitl nail
arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
arrow; dart; reed acatl
peg , stake: tlaxichtli
Gate: otl
they hang it: quipipiloa

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > Quibble
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > >
> > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > >
> > > center (n.)
> > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > Need word lists!!
> I've found none of Pygmy words.
>
> Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
>
> Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
>
> their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
>
> huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> iztitl nail
> arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> arrow; dart; reed acatl
> peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> Gate: otl
> they hang it: quipipiloa

Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.

Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 1:37:29 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > >
> > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > interior" &c.
> > > >
> > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > >
> > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > >
> > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania")..
> > > >
> > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > >
> > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > >
> > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > >
> > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > etc.
> > > atl@Azt: water
> > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > >
> > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > Quibble
> >
> > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> Hominoid nest building
>
> Mountain gorilla makes ground nest, note that leaves are fern-like, not large broadleaves which could shed rain. A thick fur coat is appropriate.
> https://youtu.be/dgew4x_quTo
-

This video shows a Rwanda mountain gorilla mother with her toddler piggyback riding as she climbs up bamboo 25' to build a bowl nest.

2:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hhXeI6ThA
- > Chimp making arboreal bowl nest, see 9:30 mother lies in "hammock" while toddler tries making a nest. A chimp will make almost 20,000 nests in a lifetime.
> Note leaves are small broadleaves used to line nest interior
> https://youtu.be/mPso9UIbH-8
>
> Human making forest floor dome hut of woven wicker (slender saplings) and large broadleaf shingles used to line exterior.
> https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords
>
> All great apes & humans handweave over-under, lesser apes and other primates do not.
>
> Sinewave speech synthesis
> https://youtu.be/EWzt1bI8AZ0
>
> Oldest wave drawing ~500,000 clamshell etching by Java Man /\/\/\/\/
> https://youtu.be/7CO--YQHznY in Dutch

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 12:56:13 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 1:37:29 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > >
> > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > >
> > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > >
> > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > >
> > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > >
> > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > >
> > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > >
> > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > >
> > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > etc.
> > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > >
> > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim
> > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > Quibble
> > >
> > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > Hominoid nest building
> >
> > Mountain gorilla makes ground nest, note that leaves are fern-like, not large broadleaves which could shed rain. A thick fur coat is appropriate.
> > https://youtu.be/dgew4x_quTo
>
> This video shows a Rwanda mountain gorilla mother with her toddler piggyback riding as she climbs up bamboo 25' to build a bowl nest.
2:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hhXeI6ThA

Orangutan adult female builds arboreal bowl nest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFsiGsaZSzI

> > Chimp making arboreal bowl nest, see 9:30 mother lies in "hammock" while toddler tries making a nest. A chimp will make almost 20,000 nests in a lifetime.
> > Note leaves are small broadleaves used to line nest interior
> > https://youtu.be/mPso9UIbH-8
> >
> > Human making forest floor dome hut of woven wicker (slender saplings) and large broadleaf shingles used to line exterior.
> > https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords
> >
> > All great apes & humans handweave over-under, lesser apes and other primates do not.
> >
> > Sinewave speech synthesis
> > https://youtu.be/EWzt1bI8AZ0
> >
> > Oldest wave drawing ~500,000 clamshell etching by Java Man /\/\/\/\/
> > https://youtu.be/7CO--YQHznY in Dutch

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> >Entre entour into(r)
> (I) INTER/INTRA
>
> entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> interior" &c.
>
> inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> Sanscrit antar.
>
> (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
>
> Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
>
> forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
>
> French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").

in- > en-/em- ?

Per Lucas Villar at quora:

Why do Spanish and Portuguese avoid 'sp' (e.g., spaghetti-espagueti)?
As it's been pointed out, this phenomenon isn't Spanish.

It comes all the way back from Vulgar Latin, and how living Romans, the ones in real life, pronounced Latin. All of Western Romances from Northern Italy to Portugal present an extra e- before a starting S-consonant cluster, which indicates that Latin speakers (in at least half the Latin-speaking world, lacking evidence of Italian doing it too) added that sound.

When you read spe in Latin you do so following the formal rules… well, native Latin speakers most likely read espe. We know because modern Spaniards say espero and esperanza derived from that root, and so do the Portuguese and the French. All these speakers weren't one and the same since Latin split, so any trait covering that large territory almost certainly originated while the language was still Latin.

Why?
Syllables in Latin (and Spanish) are more centred around vowels, let's say the sounds that vertebrate the syllable concatenation are vowels. The syllable in Spanish is a vowel adorned by some consonants, and this means that Spanish ideally prefers no consonant clusters, almost always placing a vowel sound in between any two consonants.

This is also true for Latin, consonant sounds are to be interrupted by a vowel, and some types of consonant sounds become very uncomfortable to the mouth. In Spanish phonetics any sibilant sound links to a vowel, it's the way to roll those kind of sound for us, if we can't link the sibilant sound to a vowel, we find it extremely uncomfortable. We haven't really learnt the movement of the S sound without placing the tongue back to “rest” for a vowel sound.

We only make consonant clusters in which the air-blowing or the tongue-tapping is complementary. That is fr-, cl-, br-, pl-… in these consonants you either tap or blow, but don't do both. In the case of sibilants, you don't do both either, but almost. When you make an S sound, you both push up the tongue and blow air, therefore going from that position to any other one without going through a fall-back (a vowel) is mechanically more uncomfortable.

This led Latin speakers at some point to avoid it, introducing a vowel sound (by default “e”) that makes the position for and from the sibilant more comfortable.
- Just as endura is also pronounced ndula, different dialects and accents.

>
> (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
>
> And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
>
> (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
>
> OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> etc.
>
> (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
>
> entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> cut" > trench ("ditch"); tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
>
> Tim

Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:52:50 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:

> When you read spe in Latin you do so following the formal rules… well,
> native Latin speakers most likely read espe. We know because modern
> Spaniards say espero and esperanza derived from that root, and so do
> the Portuguese and the French.

Portuguese speakers of Portugal hardly pronounce the e in espero and
esperança, if at all.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:53:15 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:52:50 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > When you read spe in Latin you do so following the formal rules… well,
> > native Latin speakers most likely read espe. We know because modern
> > Spaniards say espero and esperanza derived from that root, and so do
> > the Portuguese and the French.
> Portuguese speakers of Portugal hardly pronounce the e in espero and
> esperança, if at all.

Habib at Quora: ask vs aks

Why do some people say "aks" or “ax” instead of "ask"?
The answer boils down to a process called metathesis. This particular example of metathesis though is quite literally ancient, and is found in some of the earliest English literature dating back to the 7th century AD. Here’s an example of ‘axing’ a question in the Beowulf manuscript:

Metathesis is a change that happens in language when two sounds, almost always consonants, switch places inside of a word. It is a very, very common process, found in nearly every language with consonant clusters in the world, and is one of the most frequent ways linguists have to discover how syllable structure works in a language:

comfortable > comfterble
introduce > interduce
asterisk > asterix
foliage > foilage
As you can see in these examples, a sound in one syllable gets transposed into another, or two sounds switch places, often because it improves the quality of a syllable, or reduces the number of syllables, or otherwise makes a word conform more closely to the norms of a language’s phonology. (There are almost no English words that end in /sk/, but many that end in /ks/, for example.) Because it is so common, many of its examples are often taken to be ‘mistakes’ of standard forms of languages, but once an example takes hold, it often becomes the new standard form. For example, no one thinks the Spanish words on the right are anything but perfect Spanish, even though they arose as a result of metathesis:

Latin parabola > Spanish palabra 'word'
Latin miraculum > Spanish milagro 'miracle'
Latin periculum > Spanish peligro 'danger, peril'
Latin crocodilus > Spanish cocodrilo 'crocodile'
This fact about metathesis (and indeed language change in general) is actually directly relevant for the word ‘ask’, because its two forms have switched levels of prestige several times over the centuries. The word ‘ask’ goes all the way back to the Indo-European root *h₂ey-skeh₂ ‘to wish or request’. This makes it cognate with words as far afield as Latin aerusco ‘to demand’, Armenian այց /ayc/ ‘visit, search, examine’, and Lithuanian ieško ‘to search for’. This means that the form with the order /sk/ is the older version in the sense that is the form handed down from Proto-Germanic.

But as far as our earliest records can tell, English speakers have always been saying both something like ask and something like aks. In Old English, these show up as ascian /a:skian/ and as acsian /a:ksian/ in the very earliest texts, including Beowulf, and this means that the metathesis happened very early in the history of English, perhaps even before English began to be written down. In fact, when English does begin to be written down, forms with the /ks/ are more common in our earliest texts:

Ða axode Petrus: Hu ofte sceal ic forȝifæn? [Then Peter asked: how often shall I forgive?]
Hwi axast ðu minne naman? [Why do you ask for my name?]
Þa acsode þe bisceop hwa sceolde andswerian for his moder. [Then the bishop asked how he should answer for his mother.]
The fact that aks is so much more common than ask probably results from the fact that aks was the normal form in Wessex dialect of English. Since the Wessex dialect of English was the standard form used in Old English times, there are more attestations of it in that form than in texts based on the later, different standard dialect based in and around London.

That is an important fact, because it is precisely around the time (in the 14th century) that a newer standard dialect was beginning to be used, one based on London dialect, that ask more and more often becomes the normal word used in late Middle English and early modern English times. In Wycliffe’s Middle English translation of the Bible for example, we see ask, not ax: ‘Wherto askis þou my name?’ [Why are you asking my name?]. And by Shakespeare’s time, ask has fully overtaken aks/ax as the normal way to pose a question.

Perhaps if English had remained confined to the isles off Europe’s coast, the story would have ended there. Aks would have died out, and ask become the only form. But the seventeenth century was also the foundational time for Britain’s earliest colonies outside Europe, especially in North America. Many of the features of American English reflect facts on the ground of early modern English because English in England changed afterwards. Almost all Americans say for example ‘Fall’ to refer to the cooling season of the year after summer and before winter; this word was commonplace in Elizabethan and Shakespearean London, but slowly died out afterwards. The use of ask/aks is likewise something that found its way across the pond, where it remained in use, though now stigmatized.

Nowadays it is strangely associated in the common mind mostly with the speech of African-Americans, but they did not innovate this word, and are not its exclusive users even today. Rather, they preserve the form of English that was used around them in early America, a form once used by the likes of Alfred the Great, a form as old as English itself.

“local metathesis,” which is when two or more phonemes (i.e. sounds) right next to each other are arranged in a different order than they are normally. The classic example of this is the word cavalry, which many people (including, unfortunately, myself on occasion) say as “calvary.”

I'm not a linguist, but I had a friend who was a grad student in linguistics explain some of this to me, and it seems to boil down to two factors:
(1) consonant cluster reduction and (2) metathesis. A consonant cluster reduction is when you pronounce a word with two more consecutive consonants by dropping at least one of the consonants. This is why, for example, you might hear "fifty cents" pronounced as "fitty cent," because the "f" in "fifty" and the "s" in "cents" were both dropped. The switch from "ask" to "ax" is similar, because it takes a word with two consonants and pronounces it as

Why do some people use "ax" as a substitute for "ask"? What's the deal with African-Americans who say "axe" (e.g. “lemme axe you a question)?
Why do some Americans say 'aks' instead of 'ask', 'hun-ned' instead of 'hundred' and 'fiddy' instead of 'fifty'?
Why do we say "smorgasbord" instead of "smorgasborg"?
In old English, there were two interchangeable words:
axian and ascian. Our "ask" is the descendant of the latter but axian is actually the older variant. The black American "ax" is the descendant of the former. The only reason it is thought of as a mistake is because the low social status of blacks in America means that dialectical variants that are associated with black English tend to be views as mistakes or "bad grammar" by the rest of the population.

axian - Wiktionary

ascian - Wiktionary

Odd. Although the best one is when folks call the deodorant AXE, ASK !!!

I have no idea, but you can find many historical examples of white people saying “ax,” such as Geoffrey Chaucer in his masterwork The Canterbury Tales. I think it’s easier for some people to say. English doesn’t really like the “sk-” sound historically.. Where in North Germanic like Swedish or Icelandic you have the word fisk and skal, in English you have fish and shall.

In my neck of the woods, to pronounce ask correctly as others tell us it should be pronounced, it comes out as an overpronounced 3 syllables.

Aah.ssah.kah

Its the way we learn how to say words in general that makes this particular one difficult. Somewhere in there is a jerky gear change that is hard. Its like learning how to drive a standard vehicle for the very first time and learning how to balance the gas pedal verses the gearshift pedal. It feels like a lot of jerky movements of stop and go that is not smooth.

And then when you place the past tense ending in it, it gets even harder.

Some languages have very difficult pronunciations for some speakers. For instance the Cantonese word “ng” as in “ngor” (me,I,my) is extremely difficult for my non Chinese speaking friends to say!

Words ending in “sk”, especially without an “r” beforehand, seem to be particularly difficult. Maybe it’s the position of the tongue and teeth which differs so much when saying “sss” and “kk”? Whatever the reason, Caribbean people, among others, find “ask” very difficult and they frequently say “arks” or”ax” instead. Of course this habit is acquired by following generations too.

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > >
> > > > center (n.)
> > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > Need word lists!!
> > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> >
> > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> >
> > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> >
> > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> >
> > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > iztitl nail
> > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > Gate: otl
> > they hang it: quipipiloa
> Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > >
> > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > >
> > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > Need word lists!!
> > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > >
> > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > >
> > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > >
> > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > >
> > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > iztitl nail
> > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > Gate: otl
> > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> Azt iztitl nail
> Basque azkazal nail
> Azt acatl arrow dart
>
> Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> >
> > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:

> > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > iztitl nail
> > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > Gate: otl
> > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> Azt iztitl nail
> Basque azkazal nail
> Azt acatl arrow dart
>
> Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe

Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
in comparisons.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > >
> > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > >
> > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > Need word lists!!
> > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > >
> > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > >
> > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > >
> > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > >
> > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > iztitl nail
> > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > Gate: otl
> > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> Azt iztitl nail
> Basque azkazal nail
> Azt acatl arrow dart
>
> Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> >
> > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.