On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes off, I see this on
the screen:

https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch

.... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these buttons be presented,
if they aren't usable? What am I missing?

--
croy

In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:

> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
> off, I see this on the screen:
>
> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>
> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?

I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
They aren't buttons as such.

David

croy wrote:

> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes off, I see this on
> the screen:
>
> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>
> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these buttons be presented,
> if they aren't usable? What am I missing?

slide the blue clock to left or right as appropriate,

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 17:26:39 GMT, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

>In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>
>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>
>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>
>I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>They aren't buttons as such.

Perfect! Thank you.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 17:53:30 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>croy wrote:
>
>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes off, I see this on
>> the screen:
>>
>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>
>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these buttons be presented,
>> if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>
>slide the blue clock to left or right as appropriate,

Perfect! Thank you. I thought I had tried everything....

--
croy

On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>
>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>
>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>
> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
> They aren't buttons as such.

Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On
it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of,
every human being who ever was, lived out their lives." --Carl Sagan

The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:

> On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>
>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>
>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>> They aren't buttons as such.
>
> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(

At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
was the original intended way.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-02-18 20:42, Arno Welzel wrote:
> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
>
>> On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>>
>>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>>
>>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>>
>>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>>> They aren't buttons as such.
>>
>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>
> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
> was the original intended way.
>

No.

It is intentionally disabled to impede accidental tapping, like with
phone under the pillow or the pocket.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
>
> > On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
> >> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
> >> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
> >>> off, I see this on the screen:
> >>>
> >>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
> >>>
> >>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
> >>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
> >>
> >> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
> >> They aren't buttons as such.
> >
> > Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
> > first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>
> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
> was the original intended way.

I don't agree, because allowing a simple tap would also cause an
accidental 'tap' ('butt call') to turn off or snooze the alarm.

But it *should* be clear what one is supposed to do when the alarm
goes off. On one of my earlier phones - forgot which one - there were
moving arrows in the direction of the intended swipe. A bit better, but
not much.

What one could/should do, is just *say* what to do, i.e. 'swipe [to
the] right to snooze' (and 'swipe [to the] left to stop). But in this
day and age of GUIs, we can't have meaningful text, can we now!? Text is
sooo last century! Even the phone in this example has silly words like
'Alarm', 'Snooze' and 'Stop'. What's wrong with these people!? Can't
they come up with some meaningless icons instead?

Arno Welzel wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>
> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
> was the original intended way.

I suspect the reason that tapping is not used is to avoid accidental
presses.

On 2/18/24 11:22 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>
>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>
>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>> They aren't buttons as such.
>
>Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(

Agreed. One of the things I like about my old Samsung is that I can program
it to push the physical volume up button to answer it...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if
>> sliding
>> was the original intended way.
>
> I suspect the reason that tapping is not used is to avoid accidental
> presses.

My phone has an option "press volume up to answer calls" although I have
never tried it through fear of accidental answering. But the slide
answer did catch me out at first. Too many things these days you have to
know from experience. Buttons should look like buttons, slidey switches
should look like slidey switches (perhaps a grip on them).

On 2/18/24 12:03 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> But it *should* be clear what one is supposed to do when the alarm
> goes off. On one of my earlier phones - forgot which one - there were
> moving arrows in the direction of the intended swipe. A bit better, but
> not much.
>
> What one could/should do, is just *say* what to do, i.e. 'swipe [to
> the] right to snooze' (and 'swipe [to the] left to stop). But in this
> day and age of GUIs, we can't have meaningful text, can we now!? Text is
> sooo last century! Even the phone in this example has silly words like
> 'Alarm', 'Snooze' and 'Stop'. What's wrong with these people!? Can't
> they come up with some meaningless icons instead?

Best is "Ladies, please keep your knees together."

It took five minutes of googling to discover what a + inside a circle
means, and I've already forgotten it... Oh yeah, "data saver". Another
5 minutes I won't get back.

--
Cheers, Bev
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.

On 2/18/24 1:21 PM, Richmond wrote:
>Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>
>> Arno Welzel wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if
>>> sliding
>>> was the original intended way.
>>
>> I suspect the reason that tapping is not used is to avoid accidental
>> presses.

>My phone has an option "press volume up to answer calls" although I have
>never tried it through fear of accidental answering.

I've been using that feature for 4+ years now on my phone and have never had
a problem. Try it and I think you'll like it. If not you can always go
back...

>But the slide
>answer did catch me out at first. Too many things these days you have to
>know from experience. Buttons should look like buttons, slidey switches
>should look like slidey switches (perhaps a grip on them).

Am 18.02.24 um 19:22 schrieb The Real Bev:
> On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>
>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>
>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>> They aren't buttons as such.
>
> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(

I totally agree and made the same experience with my first Android
phone. Working as a digital coach I saw that happen to numerous clients
when they bought replacement phones.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:22:43 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>
>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>
>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>> They aren't buttons as such.
>
>Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(

Amen!

--
croy

On 02/18/2024 3:45 PM, croy wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:22:43 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>>
>>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>>
>>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>>
>>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>>> They aren't buttons as such.
>>
>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>
> Amen!
>
This is my gripe about Android. Some time you leave programs from the
top of the screen, some times at the bottom. If you hit a sequence of
keys one time it will do something the next something different.

There is no consistency it what an action will do with the android system.

On 2/18/24 5:18 PM, knuttle wrote:

>This is my gripe about Android. Some time you leave programs from the
>top of the screen, some times at the bottom.

When I leave an any app I just hit the home screen button. Bottom center on
most of my Android devices. But it does depend on the device manufacturer
and how they arrange their paticular Android version. For example this
Samsung tablet I'm now posting with has the home screen button on the
bottom right. Different from my others but I must admit it's easier for me,
being a right hander...

> If you hit a sequence of
>keys one time it will do something the next something different.

Any examples?

>There is no consistency it what an action will do with the android system.

Any examples? Most of my Android toys are pretty much the same in how they
work.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 18 Feb 2024 17:26:39 GMT, David Higton
<dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

>In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>
>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>
>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>
>I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>They aren't buttons as such.
>
>David

That makes sense. My 85-year old friend has a Moto G Pure, and when I
wanted to delete duplicate icons, I'd do a very long tap on one, and
Delete would appear at the top of the screen.

Over and over I rushed to tap delete, but it disappeared before I could
reach it. I tried to use two hands but that did not work.

Finally I dragged the icon to the delete bubble, and poof, it was gone.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:35:57 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/18/24 12:03 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> But it *should* be clear what one is supposed to do when the alarm
>> goes off. On one of my earlier phones - forgot which one - there were
>> moving arrows in the direction of the intended swipe. A bit better, but
>> not much.
>>
>> What one could/should do, is just *say* what to do, i.e. 'swipe [to
>> the] right to snooze' (and 'swipe [to the] left to stop). But in this
>> day and age of GUIs, we can't have meaningful text, can we now!? Text is
>> sooo last century! Even the phone in this example has silly words like
>> 'Alarm', 'Snooze' and 'Stop'. What's wrong with these people!? Can't
>> they come up with some meaningless icons instead?
>
>Best is "Ladies, please keep your knees together."
>
>It took five minutes of googling to discover what a + inside a circle
>means, and I've already forgotten it... Oh yeah, "data saver". Another
>5 minutes I won't get back.

I recently joined the SPICOEED. The meetings are very interesting and
they serve good food. Maybe there is a chapter in your area. But you
have to sign a pledge to support their view publicly.

The Society for Prevention of Instructions for Cellphones and Other
Electronic or Electric Devices.

On 2/18/24 4:18 PM, knuttle wrote:
> On 02/18/2024 3:45 PM, croy wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:22:43 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>>>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>>>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>>>
>>>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>>>> They aren't buttons as such.
>>>
>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>
>> Amen!
>>
> This is my gripe about Android. Some time you leave programs from the
> top of the screen, some times at the bottom. If you hit a sequence of
> keys one time it will do something the next something different.
>
> There is no consistency it what an action will do with the android system.

Given the paucity of actual documentation and the fact that Android is
pretty much a monoculture, it seems proper that there should be a set of
generic operations. By now there has been enough time for the better
(if not best) ones to have been devised.

Buttons tap. Sliders are SLIDE-SWITCH replicas. Yes=right, no=left.
You should be able to orient the damn things so that the charger plugs
in at the TOP (if desired) so you can lean it against something and use
it while it's charging. Basic shit.

--
Cheers,Bev
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level
and beat you with experience!

On 2/19/24 8:21 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>On 2/18/24 4:18 PM, knuttle wrote:
>> On 02/18/2024 3:45 PM, croy wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:22:43 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/18/24 9:26 AM, David Higton wrote:
>>>>> In message <oce4ti1t98smv74kfkjuae511bsuj6f68i@4ax.com>
>>>>> croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On my Moto G5 Plus, when the phone is off (sleeping?), when an alarm goes
>>>>>> off, I see this on the screen:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ibb.co/zJKz5ch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... but none of the buttons do anything when stomped on. Why would these
>>>>>> buttons be presented, if they aren't usable? What am I missing?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the idea is that you drag the clock to either of the labels.
>>>>> They aren't buttons as such.
>>>>
>>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>>
>>> Amen!
>>>
>> This is my gripe about Android. Some time you leave programs from the
>> top of the screen, some times at the bottom. If you hit a sequence of
>> keys one time it will do something the next something different.
>>
>> There is no consistency it what an action will do with the android system.
>
>Given the paucity of actual documentation and the fact that Android is
>pretty much a monoculture, it seems proper that there should be a set of
>generic operations. By now there has been enough time for the better
>(if not best) ones to have been devised.
>
>Buttons tap. Sliders are SLIDE-SWITCH replicas. Yes=right, no=left.

>You should be able to orient the damn things so that the charger plugs
>in at the TOP (if desired) so you can lean it against something and use
>it while it's charging. Basic shit.

My GUESS is that the charge hole is on the bottom so the cord hangs down if
you need to charge and talk at the same time, like a corded handset used to
be.

You might try a stand up wireless charger (if your phone is wireless
charging capable) that charges no matter which direction the phone sits on
it and would allow it to be used while charging...

The Real Bev wrote on Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:35:57 -0800 :

> Best is "Ladies, please keep your knees together."

<OT sermon>

True story. I was in elementary school, well before the age of puberty, and
the teacher tells the entire class that the girls have to keep their legs
together. I was probably around the middle years, second, or third grade.

I was confused.
The teacher seemed angry.

Why would girls need to keep their legs together, and not the boys, I
pondered. Why was the teacher angry about it. It didn't make sense until
later when I learned more about the differences between girls & boys.

My analytical mind saw a discrepancy - but it didn't understand because a
key datapoint was missing which was the behavior of people after puberty.

Same thing happened in catechism where a young nun told us one week that
the Adam and Eve story is meant to be symbolic and not actual reality.

A short time later, maybe a week or two at most, the nun retracts the
story, which again confused me. Why would she change her mind so suddenly.

I did wonder though why there were two old stern matronly looking nuns on
both sides of her and one in the back of the room - which I had never seen
before or since.

As Myers-Briggs notes, there are intuitive people (who don't need no
stinkin' data) and there are sensing people (who do).

Without a lot of datapoints, our assessments of facts can be wrong.

Which is why, unfortunately, highly intuitive people are very often wrong
in a complex society which requires taking in data from all parties.

</OT sermon>

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 19 Feb 2024 16:05:37 -0000 (UTC), AJL
<noemail@none.org> wrote:

>
>The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
>>You should be able to orient the damn things so that the charger plugs
>>in at the TOP (if desired) so you can lean it against something and use
>>it while it's charging. Basic shit.

I solved that. I just drilled a hole in my kitchen table, and ran
another charger cord there. EzyPezy. Now I have to do the dining room
table.

>
>My GUESS is that the charge hole is on the bottom so the cord hangs down if
> you need to charge and talk at the same time, like a corded handset used to
> be.

Carlos E.R., 2024-02-18 21:01:

> On 2024-02-18 20:42, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
[...]
>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>
>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
>> was the original intended way.
>>
>
> No.
>
> It is intentionally disabled to impede accidental tapping, like with
> phone under the pillow or the pocket.

Capacitive touchscreens can not be "tapped" under a pillow or inside a
pocket since they need physical contact with a finger, so the
capacitance of the sensor grid in the screen will change.

And by the way: the original alarm clock of Android 13 or 14 also just
provides a stop *button* which has to be tapped and not slided. So the
explanation, that sliding was implemented to avoid accidental tapping is
a very weak argument. It's more likely that the "swipe to do something"
is just a copycat of the iPhone UI to look more "modern".

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de