Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-18 21:03:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
[...]
>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>
>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
>> was the original intended way.
>
> I don't agree, because allowing a simple tap would also cause an
> accidental 'tap' ('butt call') to turn off or snooze the alarm.

See my other post. Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
a swipe.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andy Burns, 2024-02-18 21:12:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>
>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
>> was the original intended way.
>
> I suspect the reason that tapping is not used is to avoid accidental
> presses.

No, the reason is "we do it like Apple does it".

Android 13/14 (and maybe even older versions) also has an alarm clock
which only needs a tap to stop or snooze it.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

knuttle, 2024-02-19 01:18:

[...]
> This is my gripe about Android. Some time you leave programs from the
> top of the screen, some times at the bottom. If you hit a sequence of
> keys one time it will do something the next something different.
>
> There is no consistency it what an action will do with the android system.

But this is not because of Android but because of manufactures applying
their own custom UI to be "unique" compared to others. Since the phones
otherwise look more or less identical this is one of the few ways to
differentiate.

If you prefer a consistent UI, use Google Pixel or install LineageOS if
this is supported for your phone and you don't need Google Pay or other
apps which require a locked bootloader.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

AJL, 2024-02-19 02:45:

> On 2/18/24 5:18 PM, knuttle wrote:
[...]
>> There is no consistency it what an action will do with the android system.
>
> Any examples? Most of my Android toys are pretty much the same in how they
> work.

Ever compared Huawei, Xiaomi, Samsung, Motorola and Google Pixel?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

The Real Bev, 2024-02-19 16:21:

[...]
> Buttons tap. Sliders are SLIDE-SWITCH replicas. Yes=right, no=left.
> You should be able to orient the damn things so that the charger plugs
> in at the TOP (if desired) so you can lean it against something and use
> it while it's charging. Basic shit.

I prefer it at the bottom, so I can put it into a charging stand ;-)

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
> a swipe.

Pretty sure android 4 used swipes to answer calls?

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-18 21:03:
>
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
> [...]
> >>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
> >>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
> >>
> >> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
> >> was the original intended way.
> >
> > I don't agree, because allowing a simple tap would also cause an
> > accidental 'tap' ('butt call') to turn off or snooze the alarm.
>
> See my other post. Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
> a swipe.

What does "originally" mean? Are you saying it's no longer the case?

You're apparently implicitly referring to Google (Pixel et al) phones,
but the large majority of phones are not Google phones. (Until very
recently, the Google phones were not even for sale in our country, The
Netherlands.)

Anyway, my Samsung (A51, Android 13) phone needs a swipe and so did my
two earlier Huawei phones.

So I think non-swipe is a minority, instead of a 'standard'/majority.

So the question becomes: Does anyone with a non-Google phone have an
alarm which does not need to be swiped to turn it off (but can be turned
off with a tap)? If so, what is the brand and model of your phone?

Andy Burns, 2024-02-25 14:29:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
>> a swipe.
>
> Pretty sure android 4 used swipes to answer calls?

Android 4 was released in 2011 - which is 13 years ago now. How relevant
is this today?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-25 14:36:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-18 21:03:
>>
>>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
>> [...]
>>>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>>>
>>>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
>>>> was the original intended way.
>>>
>>> I don't agree, because allowing a simple tap would also cause an
>>> accidental 'tap' ('butt call') to turn off or snooze the alarm.
>>
>> See my other post. Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
>> a swipe.
>
> What does "originally" mean? Are you saying it's no longer the case?

I mean as implemented by Google in AOSP and not modified by a custom UI
of a phone manufacturer.

[...]
> Anyway, my Samsung (A51, Android 13) phone needs a swipe and so did my
> two earlier Huawei phones.

Yes, because Samsung and Huawei implemented it this way. But the
standard app provided by Google does not.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-25 14:36:
>
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-18 21:03:
> >>
> >>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >>>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
> >> [...]
> >>>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
> >>>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
> >>>>
> >>>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
> >>>> was the original intended way.
> >>>
> >>> I don't agree, because allowing a simple tap would also cause an
> >>> accidental 'tap' ('butt call') to turn off or snooze the alarm.
> >>
> >> See my other post. Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
> >> a swipe.
> >
> > What does "originally" mean? Are you saying it's no longer the case?
>
> I mean as implemented by Google in AOSP and not modified by a custom UI
> of a phone manufacturer.
>
> [...]
> > Anyway, my Samsung (A51, Android 13) phone needs a swipe and so did my
> > two earlier Huawei phones.
>
> Yes, because Samsung and Huawei implemented it this way. But the
> standard app provided by Google does not.

But, as I explained in the part you snipped, in 'installed base',
especially in Europe, Google is the exception, not the rule.

Moral: When talking about a Google phone, *say* you're talking about a
Google phone, because, for all intents and purposes, there - sadly - is
no such thing as 'standard Android'.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Andy Burns, 2024-02-25 14:29:
>
> > Arno Welzel wrote:
> >
> >> Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
> >> a swipe.
> >
> > Pretty sure android 4 used swipes to answer calls?
>
> Android 4 was released in 2011 - which is 13 years ago now. How relevant
> is this today?

I think it's very relevant, because if Andy is right, if current
(Google Pixel) Android does not need a swipe, that's a rather stupid
change (for the reasons given.

FWIW, my Android 4 Huawei phone did (and does :-)) use swipe to
answer/decline a call.

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Android 4 was released in 2011 - which is 13 years ago now. How relevant
> is this today?

someone was saying swipe to answer (or stop alarm) was NEW and confusing ...

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Moral: When talking about a Google phone, *say* you're talking about a
> Google phone, because, for all intents and purposes, there - sadly - is
> no such thing as 'standard Android'.

I've always bought Nexus/Pixel phones (I inherit a Samsung, which I gave
away) I will always regard Google phones as "stock", anyone who buys a
modified one, it's up to _them_ to cope with the differences ...

On 2024-02-25 13:40, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Carlos E.R., 2024-02-18 21:01:
>
>> On 2024-02-18 20:42, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
> [...]
>>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>>
>>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
>>> was the original intended way.
>>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> It is intentionally disabled to impede accidental tapping, like with
>> phone under the pillow or the pocket.
>
> Capacitive touchscreens can not be "tapped" under a pillow or inside a
> pocket since they need physical contact with a finger, so the
> capacitance of the sensor grid in the screen will change.

LOL.

My "smart watch" touch screen is often been activated accidentally.

For example, yesterday I was washing up some plates and glasses. My
shirt long sleeves got humid, and it activated my watch repeatedly, and
managed to erase the custom display by another. I had to go into the
phone app and download/upload the custom display that I use, again.

I had to do this many times over the two or three years I own this watch.

I can be "walking" as exercise, having the watch track the exercise, and
when I finish, I find out that something touched the screen and it
halted tracking the exercise.

So no, accidental tapping of a touch screen is a thing that happens
easily. Specially when one is half sleep trying to find the phone with
eyes half closed.

> And by the way: the original alarm clock of Android 13 or 14 also just
> provides a stop *button* which has to be tapped and not slided. So the
> explanation, that sliding was implemented to avoid accidental tapping is
> a very weak argument. It's more likely that the "swipe to do something"
> is just a copycat of the iPhone UI to look more "modern".
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-02-26 08:21, Andy Burns wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Android 4 was released in 2011 - which is 13 years ago now. How relevant
>> is this today?
>
> someone was saying swipe to answer (or stop alarm) was NEW and confusing
> ...

My first smartphone was a Samsung Galaxy mini 2, had android 2.3.6., and
I could not answer my first call I got because pushing hard the buttons
of the daft thing did not work.

When the phone stopped ringing, I had to call back my friend, who had
convinced me to buy a smartphone, and ask him how to answer a call.

Slide the button to the green, he told me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Mini_2

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-02-26 08:26, Andy Burns wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>>    Moral: When talking about a Google phone, *say* you're talking about a
>> Google phone, because, for all intents and purposes, there - sadly - is
>> no such thing as 'standard Android'.
>
> I've always bought Nexus/Pixel phones (I inherit a Samsung, which I gave
> away) I will always regard Google phones as "stock", anyone who buys a
> modified one, it's up to _them_ to cope with the differences ...

It is impossible to buy a google phone, they are way too expensive.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-02-25 14:36, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-18 21:03:
>>
>>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:

....

> So the question becomes: Does anyone with a non-Google phone have an
> alarm which does not need to be swiped to turn it off (but can be turned
> off with a tap)? If so, what is the brand and model of your phone?

My Motorola g52, running Android 13, which has few brand made
customizations, has two different alarm displays. When the phone is not
locked, the alarm displays a small window on top of whatever has the
screen, and has pushbuttons.

When the display is locked, I get the big slide buttons instead.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > Moral: When talking about a Google phone, *say* you're talking about a
> > Google phone, because, for all intents and purposes, there - sadly - is
> > no such thing as 'standard Android'.
>
> I've always bought Nexus/Pixel phones (I inherit a Samsung, which I gave
> away) I will always regard Google phones as "stock", anyone who buys a
> modified one, it's up to _them_ to cope with the differences ...

It's not about coping with the differences, it's about not letting
your audience have to guess which phone you're talking about.

But let me make my advice/request more specific: When talking about a
phone, *any* phone, - especially when the issue is about settings or
built-in apps -, mention the brand, model and Android version.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-02-25 14:36, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-18 21:03:
> >>
> >>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >>>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
>
> ...
>
> > So the question becomes: Does anyone with a non-Google phone have an
> > alarm which does not need to be swiped to turn it off (but can be turned
> > off with a tap)? If so, what is the brand and model of your phone?
>
> My Motorola g52, running Android 13, which has few brand made
> customizations, has two different alarm displays. When the phone is not
> locked, the alarm displays a small window on top of whatever has the
> screen, and has pushbuttons.

Same here, for my Samsung A51 (Android 13).

So the question becomes a bit more specific:

Does anyone with a non-Google phone have an alarm which does not need
to be swiped to turn it off (but can be turned off with a tap) when the
phone is *locked*? If so, what is the brand and model of your phone?

> When the display is locked, I get the big slide buttons instead.

I get a '(X)' button. When tapped, a big background circle appears
with the word 'Dismiss' in it. You're supposed to understand that you
must drag the button in the circle (I drag it towards the word
'Dismiss'). (At the bottom there's of course a Snooze button.)

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> It is impossible to buy a google phone, they are way too expensive.

They have varied over the years, some Nexus were real bargains, I didn't
think I'd pay the price of a Pixel, but then then I did get a Pixel3,
but have since switched to the Pixel "a" series ...

Carlos E.R., 2024-02-26 12:58:

> On 2024-02-25 13:40, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Carlos E.R., 2024-02-18 21:01:
>>
>>> On 2024-02-18 20:42, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev, 2024-02-18 19:22:
>> [...]
>>>>> Sliding/swiping rather than tapping is NOT intuitive. When I got my
>>>>> first smartphone I had to return calls because I couldn't answer them :-(
>>>>
>>>> At least tapping the option should be supported as well, even if sliding
>>>> was the original intended way.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> It is intentionally disabled to impede accidental tapping, like with
>>> phone under the pillow or the pocket.
>>
>> Capacitive touchscreens can not be "tapped" under a pillow or inside a
>> pocket since they need physical contact with a finger, so the
>> capacitance of the sensor grid in the screen will change.
>
> LOL.

No, physics.

> My "smart watch" touch screen is often been activated accidentally.
>
> For example, yesterday I was washing up some plates and glasses. My
> shirt long sleeves got humid, and it activated my watch repeatedly, and
> managed to erase the custom display by another. I had to go into the
> phone app and download/upload the custom display that I use, again.

And what exactly has a humid shirt touching the unprotected touch screen
on your smart watch which you wear on your wrist to do with a smartphone
"under a pillow" or "in a pocket"?

The important thing is *capacitance* which has to change instead of
*pressure*. Of course a humid shirt can do this. But I doubt that this
is possible just mechanically in a dry pocket.

[...]
> So no, accidental tapping of a touch screen is a thing that happens
> easily. Specially when one is half sleep trying to find the phone with
> eyes half closed.

Yes, but not *in* a pocket or *under* a pillow, where the touch screen
is physically not reachable since a capacitive touch screen does not
respond to mechanical pressure.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-25 20:58:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Andy Burns, 2024-02-25 14:29:
>>
>>> Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
>>>> a swipe.
>>>
>>> Pretty sure android 4 used swipes to answer calls?
>>
>> Android 4 was released in 2011 - which is 13 years ago now. How relevant
>> is this today?
>
> I think it's very relevant, because if Andy is right, if current
> (Google Pixel) Android does not need a swipe, that's a rather stupid
> change (for the reasons given.

I think it is so for many years now. I can't remember that I had to
swipe to stop the alarm in the last 5 years.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-25 20:53:

[...]
> Moral: When talking about a Google phone, *say* you're talking about a
> Google phone, because, for all intents and purposes, there - sadly - is
> no such thing as 'standard Android'.

Correct - and therefore it is completely pointless to discuss how things
are done "in Android".

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Carlos E.R., 2024-02-26 13:06:

> On 2024-02-26 08:26, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>>    Moral: When talking about a Google phone, *say* you're talking about a
>>> Google phone, because, for all intents and purposes, there - sadly - is
>>> no such thing as 'standard Android'.
>>
>> I've always bought Nexus/Pixel phones (I inherit a Samsung, which I gave
>> away) I will always regard Google phones as "stock", anyone who buys a
>> modified one, it's up to _them_ to cope with the differences ...
>
> It is impossible to buy a google phone, they are way too expensive.

The Pixel 6a which I got a while a ago was one of the cheapest options
compared to other models with the same specs (less then 260 USD).

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg, 2024-02-25 20:58:
>
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >> Andy Burns, 2024-02-25 14:29:
> >>
> >>> Arno Welzel wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Android 13/14 originally also only need a tap and not
> >>>> a swipe.
> >>>
> >>> Pretty sure android 4 used swipes to answer calls?
> >>
> >> Android 4 was released in 2011 - which is 13 years ago now. How relevant
> >> is this today?
> >
> > I think it's very relevant, because if Andy is right, if current
> > (Google Pixel) Android does not need a swipe, that's a rather stupid
> > change (for the reasons given.
>
> I think it is so for many years now. I can't remember that I had to
> swipe to stop the alarm in the last 5 years.

See the point Carlos raised (and I responded to): The difference in
behaviour when the phone is not locked - normal buttons, no swipe needed
- and when it is locked - swipe needed.

BTW, Andy talked about answering a *call*, the rest of the thread is
mostly about turning off an *alarm*, i.e. different things with
possibly/likely different behaviour.