Chris, 2024-02-27 11:56:

> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
>> That would be very confusing for me, because my phone accepts a swipe
>> from right edge to left as "back".
>
> Visually, that seems odd to me. But I guess it comes down to what you're
> used to.

Current Android versions support both.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:

> On 2024-02-26 13:54, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 21:56:
>>
>>> On 2024-02-25 14:30, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> sms, 2024-02-19 04:44:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> Obviously Apple decided that the downside of making iMessage a core
>>>>> platform outweighed the upside. At least in the U.S., iMessage is one of
>>>>> the major reasons that consumers choose iPhones over Android devices.
>>>>
>>>> In the U.S. iPhones have a bigger market share in general. And since
>>>> iMessage is only available on iOS there is of course no other way then
>>>> getting an iPhone if you want to keep in touch with others using that
>>>> platform. But that's not because iMessage is so great - there is just no
>>>> other choice.
>>>
>>> What do you mean "there is just no other choice"?
>>
>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>
> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
> group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.

Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a phone
number, not to a messenger group.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Chris, 2024-02-26 21:38:
>
>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> [...]
>>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>>
>> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".
>
> It depends where you are and what app you use.
>
> Apple calculator:
>
> Swiping only touches the keys,

Try swiping higher up.

>
> MS Outlook:
>
> In general when swiping from the left corner to the right, the app menu
> opens.
>
> In the e-mail list: swipes from left to right os "delete message" and
> right to left is "archive message".
>
> In the calendar: swiping changes the current day which is displayed.
>
> When the internal "apps" popup is open in Outlook, horizontal swiping is
> completely ignored. You can only close the popup again by dragging it down.

Ok, maybe not "all", but certainly all the ones where back makes sense.

> In Android, however, going "back" in app also brings you back to the
> homescreen. So it is quite confusing, that on an iPhone you must use the
> "home" button or a special "home" gesture for this. Yes, Android also
> has a "home" gesture nowadays, but there is never the point that you get
> stuck in an app because "back" will only lead to the first screen in the
> app itself but not further.
>
> In addition in Android apps can call other apps to handle certain
> actions (known as "intentions") and for this to work as expected, it is
> crucial that "back" also brings you back from one app to another app.
>
>

On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
>
>> On 2024-02-26 13:54, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-25 21:56:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-02-25 14:30, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>> sms, 2024-02-19 04:44:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> Obviously Apple decided that the downside of making iMessage a core
>>>>>> platform outweighed the upside. At least in the U.S., iMessage is one of
>>>>>> the major reasons that consumers choose iPhones over Android devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the U.S. iPhones have a bigger market share in general. And since
>>>>> iMessage is only available on iOS there is of course no other way then
>>>>> getting an iPhone if you want to keep in touch with others using that
>>>>> platform. But that's not because iMessage is so great - there is just no
>>>>> other choice.
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean "there is just no other choice"?
>>>
>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>
>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>> group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.
>
> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a phone
> number, not to a messenger group.

Look at it the other way around. If a group copies an SMS user with a
message, his replies will go back to the group. This assumes the group
were all enlisted by phone number, however.

It's messy.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Chris, 2024-03-02 00:41:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Chris, 2024-02-26 21:38:
>>
>>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> I got an iPhone from my employer as my daily driver for professional use
>>>> and I don't really like it. The whole UI experience is awkward for me
>>>> compared to what I am used to on my Google Pixel. Yes, for people who
>>>> are used to iOS, it may be fine. But not having the option for a custom
>>>> launcher dealing with different of ways how to go "back" in an app (for
>>>> example some provide an icon for that on top, Safari has the buttons on
>>>> the bottom, some don't have "back" at all etc.) makes it not easier for me.
>>>
>>> All apps accept a swipe from left to right as "back".
>>
>> It depends where you are and what app you use.
>>
>> Apple calculator:
>>
>> Swiping only touches the keys,
>
> Try swiping higher up.

Then it will just delete the last input and not go back.

I see - "back" in iOS means "undo the last action" and not "go back to
the previous screen" and the home screen can only be accessed using the
"home" gesture or the home button like on the smaller devices.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Alan Browne, 2024-03-02 15:00:

> On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
[...]
>>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
>>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>>
>>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>>> group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.
>>
>> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a phone
>> number, not to a messenger group.
>
> Look at it the other way around. If a group copies an SMS user with a
> message, his replies will go back to the group. This assumes the group
> were all enlisted by phone number, however.

If a user sends an SMS message, he can only send it to a phone number.
There is no phone number which will address the whole group. So what did
I miss here?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-03-02 16:33, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan Browne, 2024-03-02 15:00:
>
>> On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
> [...]
>>>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
>>>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>>>
>>>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>>>> group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.
>>>
>>> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a phone
>>> number, not to a messenger group.
>>
>> Look at it the other way around. If a group copies an SMS user with a
>> message, his replies will go back to the group. This assumes the group
>> were all enlisted by phone number, however.
>
> If a user sends an SMS message, he can only send it to a phone number.
> There is no phone number which will address the whole group. So what did
> I miss here?

I'd have to revisit it, but I do recall chats where a reply from SMS
users appeared on two or more iPhones.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne, 2024-03-04 15:31:

> On 2024-03-02 16:33, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Alan Browne, 2024-03-02 15:00:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
>> [...]
>>>>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
>>>>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>>>>> group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.
>>>>
>>>> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a phone
>>>> number, not to a messenger group.
>>>
>>> Look at it the other way around. If a group copies an SMS user with a
>>> message, his replies will go back to the group. This assumes the group
>>> were all enlisted by phone number, however.
>>
>> If a user sends an SMS message, he can only send it to a phone number.
>> There is no phone number which will address the whole group. So what did
>> I miss here?
>
> I'd have to revisit it, but I do recall chats where a reply from SMS
> users appeared on two or more iPhones.

Again: SMS is only to a phone number. It is technically impossible to
determine, if an incoming SMS message on *one* phone (the phone number,
the SMS was addressed to) was intended for a iMessage group. It will
only be displayed as what it is: an incoming SMS message from one user
to another user.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-03-05 14:18, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan Browne, 2024-03-04 15:31:
>
>> On 2024-03-02 16:33, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Alan Browne, 2024-03-02 15:00:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
>>> [...]
>>>>>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific features
>>>>>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>>>>>> group, then no big issue. Not elegant, mind you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a phone
>>>>> number, not to a messenger group.
>>>>
>>>> Look at it the other way around. If a group copies an SMS user with a
>>>> message, his replies will go back to the group. This assumes the group
>>>> were all enlisted by phone number, however.
>>>
>>> If a user sends an SMS message, he can only send it to a phone number.
>>> There is no phone number which will address the whole group. So what did
>>> I miss here?
>>
>> I'd have to revisit it, but I do recall chats where a reply from SMS
>> users appeared on two or more iPhones.
>
> Again: SMS is only to a phone number.

It's not like I don't understand that. I just recall being on text
groups where the SMS user remained in the loop over multiple replies.
Maybe I missed something.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2024-03-05 20:22, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 14:18, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Alan Browne, 2024-03-04 15:31:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-02 16:33, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-03-02 15:00:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific
>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>>>>>>> group, then no big issue.  Not elegant, mind you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a
>>>>>> phone
>>>>>> number, not to a messenger group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at it the other way around.  If a group copies an SMS user with a
>>>>> message, his replies will go back to the group.  This assumes the
>>>>> group
>>>>> were all enlisted by phone number, however.
>>>>
>>>> If a user sends an SMS message, he can only send it to a phone number.
>>>> There is no phone number which will address the whole group. So what
>>>> did
>>>> I miss here?
>>>
>>> I'd have to revisit it, but I do recall chats where a reply from SMS
>>> users appeared on two or more iPhones.
>>
>> Again: SMS is only to a phone number.
>
> It's not like I don't understand that.  I just recall being on text
> groups where the SMS user remained in the loop over multiple replies.
> Maybe I missed something.

The software has to internally keep track of all recipients, and send an
SMS to all, ie, multiple SMS with some tracking information.

Another method would be to send an SMS to a master phone in the list,
which then forwards to the rest.

I have seen group messaging with SMS, it can be done. The SMS first
appeared in my phone as a message from one of the members, and seconds
later appeared in the group.

With RCS, it is supported.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R., 2024-03-06 15:08:

> On 2024-03-05 20:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 14:18, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Alan Browne, 2024-03-04 15:31:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-02 16:33, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-03-02 15:00:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-03-01 07:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan Browne, 2024-02-27 01:02:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>> How to join group conversions or use any of the other specific
>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>> of iMessage without using iMessage?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hard to "join", but if the SMS-er(s) is(are) on the first list of a
>>>>>>>> group, then no big issue.  Not elegant, mind you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not "hard" - impossible. With SMS you can only send a message to a
>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>> number, not to a messenger group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at it the other way around.  If a group copies an SMS user with a
>>>>>> message, his replies will go back to the group.  This assumes the
>>>>>> group
>>>>>> were all enlisted by phone number, however.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a user sends an SMS message, he can only send it to a phone number.
>>>>> There is no phone number which will address the whole group. So what
>>>>> did
>>>>> I miss here?
>>>>
>>>> I'd have to revisit it, but I do recall chats where a reply from SMS
>>>> users appeared on two or more iPhones.
>>>
>>> Again: SMS is only to a phone number.
>>
>> It's not like I don't understand that.  I just recall being on text
>> groups where the SMS user remained in the loop over multiple replies.
>> Maybe I missed something.
>
> The software has to internally keep track of all recipients, and send an
> SMS to all, ie, multiple SMS with some tracking information.

Which is impossible.

A SMS message has only this:

1) Recipient phone number
2) Content
3) Ask for delivery report yes/no

You can not distinguish between a SMS message which is only addressed in
private to the phone owner or if it is OK to forward it via iMessage to
a group.

> Another method would be to send an SMS to a master phone in the list,
> which then forwards to the rest.

See above: you can not really decide wether the SMS message is only for
the owner of the phone who recieves it or if it should be forwarded to
an iMessage group.

The iMessage group would need to have it's own phone number - but I
doubt, that Apple runs a service which creates new phone numbers for
every iMessage group and accepts SMS messages to that phone numbers.

> I have seen group messaging with SMS, it can be done. The SMS first
> appeared in my phone as a message from one of the members, and seconds
> later appeared in the group.

In this case you should ask the sender to send a message only to you and
not to the group. I wonder how this should be possible, if the group has
not it's own number.

> With RCS, it is supported.

Yes, but RCS is not SMS.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

W Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:03:26 +0100, Arno Welzel napisal:

>> With RCS, it is supported.
>
> Yes, but RCS is not SMS.

RCS isn't supported in this app, but is the group SMS message supported?
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>

Jan K., 2024-03-07 05:44:

> W Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:03:26 +0100, Arno Welzel napisal:
>
>>> With RCS, it is supported.
>>
>> Yes, but RCS is not SMS.
>
> RCS isn't supported in this app, but is the group SMS message supported?
> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>

There is no "group SMS" - it is just a SMS message to multiple numbers.
Depending on the SMS app you can of course you can create "groups" which
just contain multiple recipients for your message. But everybody will
still just get a single message by you and can not see if the SMS
message was sent to other people as well.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-03-07 12:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jan K., 2024-03-07 05:44:
>
>> W Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:03:26 +0100, Arno Welzel napisal:
>>
>>>> With RCS, it is supported.
>>>
>>> Yes, but RCS is not SMS.
>>
>> RCS isn't supported in this app, but is the group SMS message supported?
>> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
>
> There is no "group SMS" - it is just a SMS message to multiple numbers.
> Depending on the SMS app you can of course you can create "groups" which
> just contain multiple recipients for your message. But everybody will
> still just get a single message by you and can not see if the SMS
> message was sent to other people as well.

The recipient of the SMS sent to the group can reply to the group.
However it works, it does work.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R., 2024-03-07 13:23:

> On 2024-03-07 12:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jan K., 2024-03-07 05:44:
>>
>>> W Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:03:26 +0100, Arno Welzel napisal:
>>>
>>>>> With RCS, it is supported.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but RCS is not SMS.
>>>
>>> RCS isn't supported in this app, but is the group SMS message supported?
>>> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
>>
>> There is no "group SMS" - it is just a SMS message to multiple numbers.
>> Depending on the SMS app you can of course you can create "groups" which
>> just contain multiple recipients for your message. But everybody will
>> still just get a single message by you and can not see if the SMS
>> message was sent to other people as well.
>
> The recipient of the SMS sent to the group can reply to the group.
> However it works, it does work.

So - if an user get's an SMS(!) from an iMessage group - what number is
then used as the "Sender" number?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-03-12 19:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Carlos E.R., 2024-03-07 13:23:
>
>> On 2024-03-07 12:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Jan K., 2024-03-07 05:44:
>>>
>>>> W Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:03:26 +0100, Arno Welzel napisal:
>>>>
>>>>>> With RCS, it is supported.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but RCS is not SMS.
>>>>
>>>> RCS isn't supported in this app, but is the group SMS message supported?
>>>> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
>>>
>>> There is no "group SMS" - it is just a SMS message to multiple numbers.
>>> Depending on the SMS app you can of course you can create "groups" which
>>> just contain multiple recipients for your message. But everybody will
>>> still just get a single message by you and can not see if the SMS
>>> message was sent to other people as well.
>>
>> The recipient of the SMS sent to the group can reply to the group.
>> However it works, it does work.
>
> So - if an user get's an SMS(!) from an iMessage group - what number is
> then used as the "Sender" number?

The time I saw this, most of us were using Androids, I don't remember if
anyone was using an iphone. But I was in Canada, so people just used
SMS, not WhatsApp. Some of us had RCS activated, not all.

When I got an SMS, it appeared first as an SMS coming from an
individual, and moments later, it moved to the group. And for sending, I
sent to the group, but it was in fact sent to every phone in the group.
Another person commented this same behaviour on their phone.

But it appeared as if sending/receiving from the group. I was probably
using Google Messages App.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R., 2024-03-12 22:15:

> On 2024-03-12 19:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> So - if an user get's an SMS(!) from an iMessage group - what number is
>> then used as the "Sender" number?
>
> The time I saw this, most of us were using Androids, I don't remember if
> anyone was using an iphone. But I was in Canada, so people just used
> SMS, not WhatsApp. Some of us had RCS activated, not all.
>
> When I got an SMS, it appeared first as an SMS coming from an
> individual, and moments later, it moved to the group. And for sending, I
> sent to the group, but it was in fact sent to every phone in the group.
> Another person commented this same behaviour on their phone.
>
> But it appeared as if sending/receiving from the group. I was probably
> using Google Messages App.

Well - Google Messages my use additional communication protocols even
for SMS. So when it gets an SMS it may check if the sender is also
connected to the Google messaging network which apps can use to exchange
any kind information of the internet (also known as Firebase Cloud
Messaging) and use that as an additional way of transmitting information
to each other.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de