On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8,
>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8,
>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> snippity snip snip snip
>>
>>
>>> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark
>>> stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college
>>> educations. Simply being able to do it is not a sign of
>>> intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying
>>> that he is intelligent to qualify as competent.
>>>
>>
>> That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
>>
>> I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A
>> Certain Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great
>> success, walked in, touting his 'Framebuilder
>> Certification' program with certificate - at a fee. Angel,
>> who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
>> waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit
>> his lip, opened the cash register, threw several
>> over-$1000 checks on the photo copier, handed the copy to
>> that gentleman and said "Here's my certificate. You can
>> leave now."
>
> Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
> And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
> degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
> a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
> arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>
> But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
> are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>
> Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
> aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
> their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>
>
> Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
> of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
> transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
> years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
> was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
> smaller plane to thank me.)
>
>

Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.

Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 08:25:48 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 7:44:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/10/2022 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >
>> > It might be that the Air Gun was the most effective weapon that the
>> > expedition carried as while I can't find a specific statement that the
>> > Girandoni was rifled...
>>
>> It was rifled.
>>
>> See https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?t=189
>If that was true rifling why didn't they show a light down the barrel and photograph it. That airgun disassembled completely and the barrel detached. I think that was an early attempt at rifling that didn't have any twists in it because there were simply too many grooves in it and it and they were rounded.

Tommy, you ARE an Idiot. The guy shows you a photo of the muzzle and
refers to it as rifling, which to anyone familiar with firearms
certainly implies twisted grooves in a barrel to spin the bullet. Why
else would they have been made?"
>
>By the way, so called muzzle loaders are still being manufactured and they are rifled, they shoot bullet shaped bullets and they with high pressure powder and accurate out to 300 yards with .50 caliber. Seems like a lot of effort when you can use a .50 caliber sniper rifle easily out to 2,000 meters with semiautomatic fire. The problem at these distances is holding steady on the target.

Yes, muzzle loading firearms are still being made both in rifled and
smoothbore versions. Oh! and the U.S. Army is still using a muzzle
loading, unrifled, weapon, I believe extensively, which has an
effective range of about 3,000 yards.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:33:14 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 4:04:06 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:37:58 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank
> > > >>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank
> > > >>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > snippity snip snip snip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college educations.
> > > >> Simply being able to do it is not a sign of intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying that he is intelligent
> > > >> to qualify as competent.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
> > > >
> > > > I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A Certain
> > > > Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great success, walked in,
> > > > touting his 'Framebuilder Certification' program with certificate - at a
> > > > fee. Angel, who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
> > > > waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit his lip,
> > > > opened the cash register, threw several over-$1000 checks on the photo
> > > > copier, handed the copy to that gentleman and said "Here's my
> > > > certificate. You can leave now."
> > > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable. And as John
> > > has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college degree. Beyond that, he had
> > > what might be the equivalent of a Master's Degree, based on further
> > > independent study arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
> > >
> > > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas are of
> > > little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
> > >
> > > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey aircraft for
> > > the Marines? They need to start by getting their degree. Pay attention
> > > to 0:50 to 1:05 at
> > > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
> > >
> > > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition of flying
> > > for the Air Force - specifically, the huge transport planes at our local
> > > base. And indeed, within a few years of graduating, that's exactly what
> > > he was doing. (He was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a
> > > much smaller plane to thank me.)
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > To become an officer in the USA military, the person must have a bachelor's degree from a college. You cannot be a member of rank in the USA military without a college degree. Enlisted people are required to have a high school degree or a GED. I am not sure Tommy qualifies to be in the military.
> Tell us when you were in the Military Russell. If you haven't why are you speaking about it as if you knew something? Most military officers attend the appropriate military academy such as West Point, Annapolis or United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. If you think that an officer is going to get anywhere with some Podunk college degree you couldn't be more wrong.

John F Kennedy, Harvard graduate, Lieutenant Navy, President of USA

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:33:29 -0800 (PST), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 11:25:50 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 7:44:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 2/10/2022 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
>> > >
>> > > It might be that the Air Gun was the most effective weapon that the
>> > > expedition carried as while I can't find a specific statement that the
>> > > Girandoni was rifled...
>> >
>> > It was rifled.
>> >
>> > See https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?t=189
>> If that was true rifling why didn't they show a light down the barrel and photograph it. That airgun disassembled completely and the barrel detached. I think that was an early attempt at rifling that didn't have any twists in it because there were simply too many grooves in it and it and they were rounded.
>>
>> By the way, so called muzzle loaders are still being manufactured and they are rifled, they shoot bullet shaped bullets and they with high pressure powder and accurate out to 300 yards with .50 caliber. Seems like a lot of effort when you can use a .50 caliber sniper rifle easily out to 2,000 meters with semiautomatic fire. The problem at these distances is holding steady on the target.
>
>Round ball rifling works fine if it's just a shallow scratch in the barrel.
>Muzzle loader rifling is very slow twist. Where a modern military rifle might spiral once in 9 inches, a muzzle loader can turn once in 72. (depends a bit on the type projectile. Round ball needs less, long narrow bullets need more.)

Rifling twist is, as you said is rather dependent on the projectile. A
soft lead ball probably would not work well in a 9 inch twist barrel.
I did read an article written by Elmer Keith - a reprint, the original
was written in 1940 in which he says that the Big 50 Sharps, shooting
paper patched lead bullets, had a 1 turn in 30 inch barrel. Shooting
a .50 cal, 700 grain bullets (depending on lead mix) with 150 - 170
grains of FG powder (:-)

In contrast I used to built 250-.22 wildcat rifles with 10 inch twist
which worked well at about 3,000 ft/sec.
(which would be what? Medium velocity today?)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/10/2022 6:04 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:37:58 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank
>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank
>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> snippity snip snip snip
>>>
>>>
>>>> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college educations.
>>>> Simply being able to do it is not a sign of intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying that he is intelligent
>>>> to qualify as competent.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
>>>
>>> I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A Certain
>>> Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great success, walked in,
>>> touting his 'Framebuilder Certification' program with certificate - at a
>>> fee. Angel, who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
>>> waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit his lip,
>>> opened the cash register, threw several over-$1000 checks on the photo
>>> copier, handed the copy to that gentleman and said "Here's my
>>> certificate. You can leave now."
>> Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable. And as John
>> has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college degree. Beyond that, he had
>> what might be the equivalent of a Master's Degree, based on further
>> independent study arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>>
>> But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas are of
>> little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>>
>> Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey aircraft for
>> the Marines? They need to start by getting their degree. Pay attention
>> to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>>
>> Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition of flying
>> for the Air Force - specifically, the huge transport planes at our local
>> base. And indeed, within a few years of graduating, that's exactly what
>> he was doing. (He was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a
>> much smaller plane to thank me.)
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> To become an officer in the USA military, the person must have a bachelor's degree from a college. You cannot be a member of rank in the USA military without a college degree. Enlisted people are required to have a high school degree or a GED. I am not sure Tommy qualifies to be in the military.
>

I have no opinion but that has changed over the years, and
likely will again.

At the moment enlistments are dramatically down and they're
already paying signing bonuses. Standards will fall again if
enlistments don't pick up.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-new-enlistment-bonus/

This is, by the way, a record for enlistment bonuses.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/10/2022 7:04 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:44:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2022 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> It might be that the Air Gun was the most effective weapon that the
>>> expedition carried as while I can't find a specific statement that the
>>> Girandoni was rifled...
>>
>> It was rifled.
>>
>> See https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?t=189
>
> Interesting. Very innovative. The first rifled long guns in the U.S.
> army date to about 1800 and in the British Army about the same period.
>

I defer to you on official War Department procurement, since
I have no idea.

But I do know something about our Founding. Paul Revere and
William Dawes left Boston on horseback at night* because
some 700-odd of the British garrison had marched out at
midnight* for Lexington where the most accurate _long
rifles_ on the continent were manufactured. They took a
circuitous route but did arrive at Lexington in time and the
results, including the forced withdrawal at Concord, were
our 'shot heard round the world'. A result in our favor was
critically due to the superior range and accuracy of long
rifles against smooth bore British issue muskets.

18 April, 1775.

* 1775! No streetlights, no headlamps, no paved rural roads.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:04:04 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:37:58 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> > On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank
>> >>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank
>> >>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank
>> >>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > snippity snip snip snip
>> >
>> >
>> >> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college educations.
>> >> Simply being able to do it is not a sign of intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying that he is intelligent
>> >> to qualify as competent.
>> >>
>> >
>> > That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
>> >
>> > I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A Certain
>> > Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great success, walked in,
>> > touting his 'Framebuilder Certification' program with certificate - at a
>> > fee. Angel, who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
>> > waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit his lip,
>> > opened the cash register, threw several over-$1000 checks on the photo
>> > copier, handed the copy to that gentleman and said "Here's my
>> > certificate. You can leave now."
>> Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable. And as John
>> has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college degree. Beyond that, he had
>> what might be the equivalent of a Master's Degree, based on further
>> independent study arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>>
>> But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas are of
>> little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>>
>> Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey aircraft for
>> the Marines? They need to start by getting their degree. Pay attention
>> to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>>
>> Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition of flying
>> for the Air Force - specifically, the huge transport planes at our local
>> base. And indeed, within a few years of graduating, that's exactly what
>> he was doing. (He was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a
>> much smaller plane to thank me.)
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>To become an officer in the USA military, the person must have a bachelor's degree from a college. You cannot be a member of rank in the USA military without a college degree. Enlisted people are required to have a high school degree or a GED. I am not sure Tommy qualifies to be in the military.

I think, and admittedly this is memories of some 50 or more years ago,
but I believe that in Tommy's time there was no education requirement
for enlisted. Certainly I had a young guy working for me in about
1970, or there about, that I scheduled for a GED test and he would
have had more then a year service at the time as he had completed tech
school.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:33:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 4:04:06 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:37:58 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> > >>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
>> > >>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank
>> > >>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> > >>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank
>> > >>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > snippity snip snip snip
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college educations.
>> > >> Simply being able to do it is not a sign of intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying that he is intelligent
>> > >> to qualify as competent.
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
>> > >
>> > > I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A Certain
>> > > Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great success, walked in,
>> > > touting his 'Framebuilder Certification' program with certificate - at a
>> > > fee. Angel, who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
>> > > waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit his lip,
>> > > opened the cash register, threw several over-$1000 checks on the photo
>> > > copier, handed the copy to that gentleman and said "Here's my
>> > > certificate. You can leave now."
>> > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable. And as John
>> > has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college degree. Beyond that, he had
>> > what might be the equivalent of a Master's Degree, based on further
>> > independent study arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>> >
>> > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas are of
>> > little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>> >
>> > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey aircraft for
>> > the Marines? They need to start by getting their degree. Pay attention
>> > to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>> >
>> > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition of flying
>> > for the Air Force - specifically, the huge transport planes at our local
>> > base. And indeed, within a few years of graduating, that's exactly what
>> > he was doing. (He was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a
>> > much smaller plane to thank me.)
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > - Frank Krygowski
>> To become an officer in the USA military, the person must have a bachelor's degree from a college. You cannot be a member of rank in the USA military without a college degree. Enlisted people are required to have a high school degree or a GED. I am not sure Tommy qualifies to be in the military.
>
>Tell us when you were in the Military Russell. If you haven't why are you speaking about it as if you knew something? Most military officers attend the appropriate military academy such as West Point, Annapolis or United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. If you think that an officer is going to get anywhere with some Podunk college degree you couldn't be more wrong.

I guess I would have to ask tommy "why are you
speaking about it as if you knew something?"

As during the period that tommy claims to have been in the Air force a
great number of commissioned officers had NOT graduated from the Air
Force Academy.

The first Air Academy class graduated in 1965. Which, if Tommy hasn't
lied was one year before he left the A.F. So for 3/4 of his enlistment
there were NO Air Force Academy pilots. In fact as an Academy graduate
would have to go through primary flight training then training for the
specific airplane he was going to fly, after leaving the Academy, it
is doubtful that there were any Air Academy pilots on active flight
duty until after tommy left the Air force.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 19:17:56 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> snippity snip snip snip
>>>
>>>
>>>> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark
>>>> stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college
>>>> educations. Simply being able to do it is not a sign of
>>>> intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying
>>>> that he is intelligent to qualify as competent.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
>>>
>>> I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A
>>> Certain Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great
>>> success, walked in, touting his 'Framebuilder
>>> Certification' program with certificate - at a fee. Angel,
>>> who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
>>> waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit
>>> his lip, opened the cash register, threw several
>>> over-$1000 checks on the photo copier, handed the copy to
>>> that gentleman and said "Here's my certificate. You can
>>> leave now."
>>
>> Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
>> And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
>> degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
>> a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
>> arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>>
>> But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
>> are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>>
>> Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
>> aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
>> their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>>
>>
>> Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
>> of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
>> transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
>> years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
>> was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
>> smaller plane to thank me.)
>>
>>
>
>Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.
>
>Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
>developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
>examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.

I think you missed a beat there as from what I read the Paul V. and
Joseph E. Galvin company first used the name "Motorola" in 1930.

As for Lear, as far as I can see, he never finished high school but
apparently was a U.S. Navy qualified "instructor in wireless", so his
knowledge of radio systems must have been above that of the usual 8th
grader.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 20:11:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/10/2022 7:04 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:44:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/10/2022 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It might be that the Air Gun was the most effective weapon that the
>>>> expedition carried as while I can't find a specific statement that the
>>>> Girandoni was rifled...
>>>
>>> It was rifled.
>>>
>>> See https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?t=189
>>
>> Interesting. Very innovative. The first rifled long guns in the U.S.
>> army date to about 1800 and in the British Army about the same period.
>>
>
>I defer to you on official War Department procurement, since
>I have no idea.
>
>But I do know something about our Founding. Paul Revere and
>William Dawes left Boston on horseback at night* because
>some 700-odd of the British garrison had marched out at
>midnight* for Lexington where the most accurate _long
>rifles_ on the continent were manufactured. They took a
>circuitous route but did arrive at Lexington in time and the
>results, including the forced withdrawal at Concord, were
>our 'shot heard round the world'. A result in our favor was
>critically due to the superior range and accuracy of long
>rifles against smooth bore British issue muskets.
>
>18 April, 1775.
>
>* 1775! No streetlights, no headlamps, no paved rural roads.

Yes, I've read the stories and yes, British troops were marching to
seize stores of gun powder and some arms at Lexington, and yes, I've
read stories about the Minute Men snipping from behind fences but I
doubt greatly whether many rifles were used, although admittedly this
seems to be a constant theme in U.S. history.

But, where did these "rifles" come from? The average farmer had no
requirement for an expensive rifled gun, a smooth bore was far cheaper
and far more versatile for use on the farm.

Additionally there were no organized munitions makers in the U.S. and
rifles were made one at a time, and were extremely expensive. Kenneth
Roberts in the historical novel Arundel, based on actual diaries of
the 1775 Quebec Campaign, mentions used rifles with accoutrements
exchanged for 12-15 English pounds. A smooth bore at the time might be
2 pounds and 4 shillings. To get an idea of how much this was there is
a record of a John Moll paying 45 pounds for a 60’ X 230’ building lot
in Allentown in 1772. And, William Carlin, a tailor in colonial
Alexandria who made clothes for field hands as well as the planter
elite, charged £3-5 for an ordinary wool suit.

Some of the greatest support furnished by the French to the
revolutionists was in the form of muskets and gun power. In the
Battles of Saratoga on September 19 and October 7, 1777, it is
estimated that as many as nine out of 10 American soldiers carried
French arms, and were completely dependent on French gunpowder.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:18:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >
> > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
> > And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
> > degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
> > a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
> > arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
> >
> > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
> > are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
> >
> > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
> > aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
> > their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
> > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
> >
> >
> > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
> > of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
> > transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
> > years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
> > was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
> > smaller plane to thank me.)
> >
> >
> Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.
>
> Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
> developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
> examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.

Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.

Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
mean we should say "ignore the data."

- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:04:50 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:18:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >
>> > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
>> > And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
>> > degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
>> > a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
>> > arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>> >
>> > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
>> > are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>> >
>> > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
>> > aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
>> > their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>> >
>> >
>> > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
>> > of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
>> > transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
>> > years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
>> > was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
>> > smaller plane to thank me.)
>> >
>> >
>> Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.
>>
>> Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
>> developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
>> examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.
>
>Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
>intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
>to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
>Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.
>
>Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
>mean we should say "ignore the data."
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Over the years I worked in Indonesia the company hired slews of
collage graduates for internationally funded development projects and
frankly I can't remember any that qualified as "degree certified
dolts" although I did see some who were in a position where they
weren't wholly qualified for. In fact it is rare, if not impossible,
to find someone who can do everything (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:15:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:53:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>And a comment on Human Factors: There was probably no technical need to
>>make the gun look so much like a flintlock, or to have a fake "cock" or
>>flint holder swinging forward and down. But if soldiers were used to
>>flintlocks, that feature of the air rifle probably aided training.
>
>Design is most commonly evolutionary and rarely revolutionary. In
>other words, a new design tends to build on the old design that it
>attempts to replace. In this case, the 1780 Girandoni prototype was
>probably built from components borrowed from the muskets of the day.
>While the internal pneumatic mechanisms were certainly different, the
>design and placement of the stock, barrel, sighting, breech, etc were
>"good enough" to be used in their original forms. For example, the
>20/22 shot loader was borrowed directly from "harmonica" guns,
>invented in 1742:
><https://www.google.com/search?q=harmonica+rifle&tbm=isch>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_gun>
>
>I don't think training was the most important consideration. What was
>important was to sell the air rifle. The military of the day was
>highly conservative and not particularly receptive to making major
>changes of any kind. It was much like the early machine guns, which
>were declared useless by the military because it wasted ammunition.
>Making the air rifle look like something familiar had the advantage of
>making it appear to be a minor improvement to the existing rifle
>rather than a radical redesign hidden inside. However, that would
>only get the air rifle to testing and trials, where the differences
>and limitations would soon be evident. Before soldiers can be trained
>to use any kind of weapon system, the military needs to decide how the
>weapon is to be used. This was a major problem with early machine
>guns, tanks, airplanes, and just about every revolutionary
>technological improvement. When first introduced, officers had no
>idea how these were to be used and had to do quite a bit of
>experimentation before a functional system was contrived. Once that
>was established, then the training can begin.

Well, yes. In fact that is one of the things that civilians nag about.
Someone invents a new thingy and Hooray, Hooray, we ought to use this.
The experienced military Officer knows what losing a single battle
might mean losing the war is inclined to use what worked last time.

I recently read a quite extensive write up on the German's first use
of large tank forces in battle and except that the "other guys" were
more incompetent it would have been a major disaster. The Tanks
themselves had a limited range, the tank carriers broke down, treads
broke easily and even the large tank guns over heated.
The Germans, of course, learned from experience and developed highly
effective tank forces.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 12:04:52 AM UTC-5, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
> intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
> to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
> Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.
>
> Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
> mean we should say "ignore the data."

+1, Very well said, but I've worked with a number of very talented non-degreed engineering professionals who had the title of 'engineer'. I know it puts a thorn in some peoples paws that someone without an engineering degree has 'engineer' title, but it doesn't bother me one bit, due to the fact the fact that I've worked with so many degreed engineers who were absolutely pathetic (my department is burdened with one right now (and no tommy, it isn't me)).

On 2/10/2022 11:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:18:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
>>> And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
>>> degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
>>> a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
>>> arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>>>
>>> But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
>>> are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>>>
>>> Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
>>> aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
>>> their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
>>> of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
>>> transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
>>> years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
>>> was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
>>> smaller plane to thank me.)
>>>
>>>
>> Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.
>>
>> Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
>> developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
>> examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.
>
> Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
> intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
> to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
> Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.
>
> Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
> mean we should say "ignore the data."
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

We agree. There are trends, and then again there are
outliers, in everything.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:44:07 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:33:14 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 4:04:06 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:37:58 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank
> > > > >>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank
> > > > >>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > snippity snip snip snip
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college educations.
> > > > >> Simply being able to do it is not a sign of intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying that he is intelligent
> > > > >> to qualify as competent.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A Certain
> > > > > Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great success, walked in,
> > > > > touting his 'Framebuilder Certification' program with certificate - at a
> > > > > fee. Angel, who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
> > > > > waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit his lip,
> > > > > opened the cash register, threw several over-$1000 checks on the photo
> > > > > copier, handed the copy to that gentleman and said "Here's my
> > > > > certificate. You can leave now."
> > > > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable. And as John
> > > > has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college degree. Beyond that, he had
> > > > what might be the equivalent of a Master's Degree, based on further
> > > > independent study arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
> > > >
> > > > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas are of
> > > > little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
> > > >
> > > > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey aircraft for
> > > > the Marines? They need to start by getting their degree. Pay attention
> > > > to 0:50 to 1:05 at
> > > > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
> > > >
> > > > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition of flying
> > > > for the Air Force - specifically, the huge transport planes at our local
> > > > base. And indeed, within a few years of graduating, that's exactly what
> > > > he was doing. (He was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a
> > > > much smaller plane to thank me.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > To become an officer in the USA military, the person must have a bachelor's degree from a college. You cannot be a member of rank in the USA military without a college degree. Enlisted people are required to have a high school degree or a GED. I am not sure Tommy qualifies to be in the military.
> > Tell us when you were in the Military Russell. If you haven't why are you speaking about it as if you knew something? Most military officers attend the appropriate military academy such as West Point, Annapolis or United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. If you think that an officer is going to get anywhere with some Podunk college degree you couldn't be more wrong.
> John F Kennedy, Harvard graduate, Lieutenant Navy, President of USA

Tell me Russy, do you think that the President is a commissioned officer? Do you know the difference between a Lieutenant and a Captain in the Navy?

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:04:52 PM UTC-8, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:18:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >
> > > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
> > > And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
> > > degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
> > > a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
> > > arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
> > >
> > > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
> > > are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
> > >
> > > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
> > > aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
> > > their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
> > > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
> > > of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
> > > transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
> > > years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
> > > was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
> > > smaller plane to thank me.)
> > >
> > >
> > Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.
> >
> > Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
> > developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
> > examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.
> Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
> intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
> to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
> Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.
>
> Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
> mean we should say "ignore the data."

Frank, do you have any idea of the percentage of your students that went on to have a successful career in mechanical engineering?

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:15:14 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:53:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >And a comment on Human Factors: There was probably no technical need to
> >make the gun look so much like a flintlock, or to have a fake "cock" or
> >flint holder swinging forward and down. But if soldiers were used to
> >flintlocks, that feature of the air rifle probably aided training.
>
> Design is most commonly evolutionary and rarely revolutionary. In
> other words, a new design tends to build on the old design that it
> attempts to replace. In this case, the 1780 Girandoni prototype was
> probably built from components borrowed from the muskets of the day.
> While the internal pneumatic mechanisms were certainly different, the
> design and placement of the stock, barrel, sighting, breech, etc were
> "good enough" to be used in their original forms. For example, the
> 20/22 shot loader was borrowed directly from "harmonica" guns,
> invented in 1742:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=harmonica+rifle&tbm=isch>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_gun>
>
> I don't think training was the most important consideration. What was
> important was to sell the air rifle. The military of the day was
> highly conservative and not particularly receptive to making major
> changes of any kind. It was much like the early machine guns, which
> were declared useless by the military because it wasted ammunition.
> Making the air rifle look like something familiar had the advantage of
> making it appear to be a minor improvement to the existing rifle
> rather than a radical redesign hidden inside. However, that would
> only get the air rifle to testing and trials, where the differences
> and limitations would soon be evident. Before soldiers can be trained
> to use any kind of weapon system, the military needs to decide how the
> weapon is to be used. This was a major problem with early machine
> guns, tanks, airplanes, and just about every revolutionary
> technological improvement. When first introduced, officers had no
> idea how these were to be used and had to do quite a bit of
> experimentation before a functional system was contrived. Once that
> was established, then the training can begin.

And now Jeffy is not only an expert on the mental processes of the military, but their receptiveness to change. I suppose the example of the defeat of the English by a smaller force of Americans never made it into his education.

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:41:04 AM UTC-5, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 12:04:52 AM UTC-5, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
> > intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
> > to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
> > Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.
> >
> > Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
> > mean we should say "ignore the data."
> +1, Very well said, but I've worked with a number of very talented non-degreed engineering professionals who had the title of 'engineer'. I know it puts a thorn in some peoples paws that someone without an engineering degree has 'engineer' title, but it doesn't bother me one bit, due to the fact the fact that I've worked with so many degreed engineers who were absolutely pathetic (my department is burdened with one right now (and no tommy, it isn't me)).

Sounds like we all agree that exceptions exist, but that they are exceptional.

In my very first job as a plant engineer, the head of the department had only a two-year degree,
but was very competent. My only complaint: He was a bit awed by my degrees and consequently
was reluctant to give me guidance. I think I could have learned much more from him, if not for that
reluctance.

Certain other degreed engineers did slag him behind his back, in ways that were unfair and sometimes
factually incorrect. I remember them particularly disliking when he diplomatically pointed out some serious
factor they'd neglected to consider.

- Frank Krygowski

On 2/10/2022 10:51 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 20:11:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2022 7:04 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:44:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/10/2022 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be that the Air Gun was the most effective weapon that the
>>>>> expedition carried as while I can't find a specific statement that the
>>>>> Girandoni was rifled...
>>>>
>>>> It was rifled.
>>>>
>>>> See https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?t=189
>>>
>>> Interesting. Very innovative. The first rifled long guns in the U.S.
>>> army date to about 1800 and in the British Army about the same period.
>>>
>>
>> I defer to you on official War Department procurement, since
>> I have no idea.
>>
>> But I do know something about our Founding. Paul Revere and
>> William Dawes left Boston on horseback at night* because
>> some 700-odd of the British garrison had marched out at
>> midnight* for Lexington where the most accurate _long
>> rifles_ on the continent were manufactured. They took a
>> circuitous route but did arrive at Lexington in time and the
>> results, including the forced withdrawal at Concord, were
>> our 'shot heard round the world'. A result in our favor was
>> critically due to the superior range and accuracy of long
>> rifles against smooth bore British issue muskets.
>>
>> 18 April, 1775.
>>
>> * 1775! No streetlights, no headlamps, no paved rural roads.
>
> Yes, I've read the stories and yes, British troops were marching to
> seize stores of gun powder and some arms at Lexington, and yes, I've
> read stories about the Minute Men snipping from behind fences but I
> doubt greatly whether many rifles were used, although admittedly this
> seems to be a constant theme in U.S. history.
>
> But, where did these "rifles" come from? The average farmer had no
> requirement for an expensive rifled gun, a smooth bore was far cheaper
> and far more versatile for use on the farm.
>
> Additionally there were no organized munitions makers in the U.S. and
> rifles were made one at a time, and were extremely expensive. Kenneth
> Roberts in the historical novel Arundel, based on actual diaries of
> the 1775 Quebec Campaign, mentions used rifles with accoutrements
> exchanged for 12-15 English pounds. A smooth bore at the time might be
> 2 pounds and 4 shillings. To get an idea of how much this was there is
> a record of a John Moll paying 45 pounds for a 60’ X 230’ building lot
> in Allentown in 1772. And, William Carlin, a tailor in colonial
> Alexandria who made clothes for field hands as well as the planter
> elite, charged £3-5 for an ordinary wool suit.
>
> Some of the greatest support furnished by the French to the
> revolutionists was in the form of muskets and gun power. In the
> Battles of Saratoga on September 19 and October 7, 1777, it is
> estimated that as many as nine out of 10 American soldiers carried
> French arms, and were completely dependent on French gunpowder.
>

I was engaged in a discussion on currency debasement policy
(popularly called 'inflation') and remembered your post
above so I checked the NPV of 14 Sterling in 1775.

Current value 2400 pounds or US$3200. For reference, your
average popular modern rifle runs somewhere around $2000.

So you make a good point that premium equipment of the era
was pricey. No wonder Louis sent muskets!

Typical selections:
https://blog.gunassociation.org/best-rifles/

https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/guns/rifles/centerfire/2011/11/20-best-semi-automatic-rifles-big-game-hunting/

where $3000 rifles are at the far end of 'popular', most are
below $2000, and the range is $800 to $7000

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 1:38:55 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/10/2022 10:51 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 20:11:51 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/10/2022 7:04 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:44:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/10/2022 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It might be that the Air Gun was the most effective weapon that the
> >>>>> expedition carried as while I can't find a specific statement that the
> >>>>> Girandoni was rifled...
> >>>>
> >>>> It was rifled.
> >>>>
> >>>> See https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?t=189
> >>>
> >>> Interesting. Very innovative. The first rifled long guns in the U.S.
> >>> army date to about 1800 and in the British Army about the same period..
> >>>
> >>
> >> I defer to you on official War Department procurement, since
> >> I have no idea.
> >>
> >> But I do know something about our Founding. Paul Revere and
> >> William Dawes left Boston on horseback at night* because
> >> some 700-odd of the British garrison had marched out at
> >> midnight* for Lexington where the most accurate _long
> >> rifles_ on the continent were manufactured. They took a
> >> circuitous route but did arrive at Lexington in time and the
> >> results, including the forced withdrawal at Concord, were
> >> our 'shot heard round the world'. A result in our favor was
> >> critically due to the superior range and accuracy of long
> >> rifles against smooth bore British issue muskets.
> >>
> >> 18 April, 1775.
> >>
> >> * 1775! No streetlights, no headlamps, no paved rural roads.
> >
> > Yes, I've read the stories and yes, British troops were marching to
> > seize stores of gun powder and some arms at Lexington, and yes, I've
> > read stories about the Minute Men snipping from behind fences but I
> > doubt greatly whether many rifles were used, although admittedly this
> > seems to be a constant theme in U.S. history.
> >
> > But, where did these "rifles" come from? The average farmer had no
> > requirement for an expensive rifled gun, a smooth bore was far cheaper
> > and far more versatile for use on the farm.
> >
> > Additionally there were no organized munitions makers in the U.S. and
> > rifles were made one at a time, and were extremely expensive. Kenneth
> > Roberts in the historical novel Arundel, based on actual diaries of
> > the 1775 Quebec Campaign, mentions used rifles with accoutrements
> > exchanged for 12-15 English pounds. A smooth bore at the time might be
> > 2 pounds and 4 shillings. To get an idea of how much this was there is
> > a record of a John Moll paying 45 pounds for a 60’ X 230’ building lot
> > in Allentown in 1772. And, William Carlin, a tailor in colonial
> > Alexandria who made clothes for field hands as well as the planter
> > elite, charged £3-5 for an ordinary wool suit.
> >
> > Some of the greatest support furnished by the French to the
> > revolutionists was in the form of muskets and gun power. In the
> > Battles of Saratoga on September 19 and October 7, 1777, it is
> > estimated that as many as nine out of 10 American soldiers carried
> > French arms, and were completely dependent on French gunpowder.
> >
>
> I was engaged in a discussion on currency debasement policy
> (popularly called 'inflation') and remembered your post
> above so I checked the NPV of 14 Sterling in 1775.
>
> Current value 2400 pounds or US$3200. For reference, your
> average popular modern rifle runs somewhere around $2000.
>
> So you make a good point that premium equipment of the era
> was pricey. No wonder Louis sent muskets!
>
> Typical selections:
> https://blog.gunassociation.org/best-rifles/
>
> https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/guns/rifles/centerfire/2011/11/20-best-semi-automatic-rifles-big-game-hunting/
>
> where $3000 rifles are at the far end of 'popular', most are
> below $2000, and the range is $800 to $7000

Very few people can shoot a rifle. Fewer still a pistol. I don't remember much about my pistols but I must have shot a lot. I have half a closet full of hand loads. Enough that it would come back inside of one shot or two. But rifles are another thing altogether. I shoot rifles in the long range sniper category. My father always had rifles of all sorts around so unlike most people I never thought of them as anything other than a tool. My youngest brother was only alive during the time when my father was crippled with emphysema so he never knew anything about guns. He never went into the service so he never had any experience with them and he is afraid of guns. Maybe now that he is living in Nevada someone will teach him about them. I guess all of those hand loads were around because I had some really high end pistols that wouldn't explode with the highest loads possible. These are so hot that they are really rifle loads.

The latest M1B is a .308. I prefer A 30-06 but it is such a long round that it takes too big a magazine and they were always loaded with clips. They are now making an NATO rifle chambered for a .308 that looks very much like an AR-15. Called an AR-4. These are VERY different from the military version. The military version no longer is fully automatic unless you're in a special mode. Now because they eat ammo so rapidly they are burst fire as a normal condition. Try holding a burst fire .308 on a target and you'll know why they use .223 AR-14s I also like the latest semiauto combat shotguns. 10 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger. And then 20 minutes for the barrel to cool down. Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting people like Flunky and all of his close friends at the gay bath houses.

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 6:05:38 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting people like Flunky and all of his close friends at the gay bath houses.

Or, episode 2112020 of 'Tommy's Table Talk'*, in which he condones mass shootings of unarmed civilians, much like these guys:
https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/life-in-nazi-occupied-europe/oppression/homosexuals/ (but those evil liberals like Frank are the real nazi oppressors).

Nice company you're keeping there Sparky...BTW , They're coming for you next, apparently Mr. Rhodes has your number in his contact list:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler%27s_Table_Talk

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:00:35 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:44:07 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:33:14 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 4:04:06 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:37:58 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > > On 2/9/2022 6:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > > > On 2/9/2022 4:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > >> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:03:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > > >>> On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
>> > > > >>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank
>> > > > >>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank
>> > > > >>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > snippity snip snip snip
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> You do realize that Frank considers Lewis and Clark stupid bumbling idiots because they didn't have college educations.
>> > > > >> Simply being able to do it is not a sign of intelligence to Frank. He needs a piece of paper saying that he is intelligent
>> > > > >> to qualify as competent.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > That reminds me of a great bicycle story.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I was great friends with Angel Rodriguez for many years. A Certain
>> > > > > Person, a minor Midwest framebuilder of no great success, walked in,
>> > > > > touting his 'Framebuilder Certification' program with certificate - at a
>> > > > > fee. Angel, who was the 3d largest tandem builder then, with a long
>> > > > > waiting list for his beautiful (& expensive) tandems, bit his lip,
>> > > > > opened the cash register, threw several over-$1000 checks on the photo
>> > > > > copier, handed the copy to that gentleman and said "Here's my
>> > > > > certificate. You can leave now."
>> > > > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable. And as John
>> > > > has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college degree. Beyond that, he had
>> > > > what might be the equivalent of a Master's Degree, based on further
>> > > > independent study arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>> > > >
>> > > > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas are of
>> > > > little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey aircraft for
>> > > > the Marines? They need to start by getting their degree. Pay attention
>> > > > to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> > > > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>> > > >
>> > > > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition of flying
>> > > > for the Air Force - specifically, the huge transport planes at our local
>> > > > base. And indeed, within a few years of graduating, that's exactly what
>> > > > he was doing. (He was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a
>> > > > much smaller plane to thank me.)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > - Frank Krygowski
>> > > To become an officer in the USA military, the person must have a bachelor's degree from a college. You cannot be a member of rank in the USA military without a college degree. Enlisted people are required to have a high school degree or a GED. I am not sure Tommy qualifies to be in the military.
>> > Tell us when you were in the Military Russell. If you haven't why are you speaking about it as if you knew something? Most military officers attend the appropriate military academy such as West Point, Annapolis or United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. If you think that an officer is going to get anywhere with some Podunk college degree you couldn't be more wrong.
>> John F Kennedy, Harvard graduate, Lieutenant Navy, President of USA
>
>Tell me Russy, do you think that the President is a commissioned officer? Do you know the difference between a Lieutenant and a Captain in the Navy?

Well tommy a Lieutenant can be a Captain and some 29 presidents served
in the Military and all but 1 were commissioned officers (:-)

As the Good Book tells us, "The tongue of the wise useth knowledge
aright
but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:03:52 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:04:52 PM UTC-8, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:18:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> > On 2/10/2022 5:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Certainly, not every "piece of paper" is equally valuable.
>> > > And as John has noted, Meriwether Lewis had a college
>> > > degree. Beyond that, he had what might be the equivalent of
>> > > a Master's Degree, based on further independent study
>> > > arranged by Thomas Jefferson.
>> > >
>> > > But Tom keeps implying degrees or even high school diplomas
>> > > are of little value - a classic case of "sour grapes."
>> > >
>> > > Do you know someone who wants to fly the tilt rotor Osprey
>> > > aircraft for the Marines? They need to start by getting
>> > > their degree. Pay attention to 0:50 to 1:05 at
>> > > https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-pilots-fly-84-million-163600565.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Related: One of my favorite students had a lifetime ambition
>> > > of flying for the Air Force - specifically, the huge
>> > > transport planes at our local base. And indeed, within a few
>> > > years of graduating, that's exactly what he was doing. (He
>> > > was kind enough to give me a tour of our area in a much
>> > > smaller plane to thank me.)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Well put but not dispositive. Goes both ways.
>> >
>> > Lear, of the first car radio, founder of Motorola and
>> > developer of the LearJet had an 8th grade education. Counter
>> > examples (degreed certified dolts) abound as well.
>> Of course counterexamples exist. But as I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves
>> intelligently interpreted. The data's very firm that more education normally leads
>> to more accomplishments and more prosperity. Exceptions are relatively rare.
>> Education also correlates strongly with more intelligence, which is no surprise.
>>
>> Very few correlations are 100 percent accurate with no exceptions. That doesn't
>> mean we should say "ignore the data."
>
>Frank, do you have any idea of the percentage of your students that went on to have a successful career in mechanical engineering?

"to have a successful career"???

You mean that they don't live in a cheap arse $50,000 house in a slum
where one is afraid to open the door at night until one has peeped out
the bedroom window? And weeps and cries over the high cost of
groceries?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:09:09 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:15:14 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:53:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >And a comment on Human Factors: There was probably no technical need to
>> >make the gun look so much like a flintlock, or to have a fake "cock" or
>> >flint holder swinging forward and down. But if soldiers were used to
>> >flintlocks, that feature of the air rifle probably aided training.
>>
>> Design is most commonly evolutionary and rarely revolutionary. In
>> other words, a new design tends to build on the old design that it
>> attempts to replace. In this case, the 1780 Girandoni prototype was
>> probably built from components borrowed from the muskets of the day.
>> While the internal pneumatic mechanisms were certainly different, the
>> design and placement of the stock, barrel, sighting, breech, etc were
>> "good enough" to be used in their original forms. For example, the
>> 20/22 shot loader was borrowed directly from "harmonica" guns,
>> invented in 1742:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=harmonica+rifle&tbm=isch>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_gun>
>>
>> I don't think training was the most important consideration. What was
>> important was to sell the air rifle. The military of the day was
>> highly conservative and not particularly receptive to making major
>> changes of any kind. It was much like the early machine guns, which
>> were declared useless by the military because it wasted ammunition.
>> Making the air rifle look like something familiar had the advantage of
>> making it appear to be a minor improvement to the existing rifle
>> rather than a radical redesign hidden inside. However, that would
>> only get the air rifle to testing and trials, where the differences
>> and limitations would soon be evident. Before soldiers can be trained
>> to use any kind of weapon system, the military needs to decide how the
>> weapon is to be used. This was a major problem with early machine
>> guns, tanks, airplanes, and just about every revolutionary
>> technological improvement. When first introduced, officers had no
>> idea how these were to be used and had to do quite a bit of
>> experimentation before a functional system was contrived. Once that
>> was established, then the training can begin.
>
>And now Jeffy is not only an expert on the mental processes of the military, but their receptiveness to change. I suppose the example of the defeat of the English by a smaller force of Americans never made it into his education.

Well, at the Battle of Yorktown - generally considered the deciding
battle of the Revolution - the British had some 9,000 troops, 7.000
British and about 2,000 German mercenaries, while the Americans had
some 5,000 regular troops, 3,000 militia troops and about 8,000 French
troops as well as 29 French warships.
--
Cheers,

John B.