"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news:337a3h1vfapq246s7upl62ki1oo5u89gd7@4ax.com...

There's a long way to go from "this would be cool" to "and that's
what it makes." I'm right now working on the "okay, how might I go
about this?" Matching rollers is a clever idea, but one is faced with
indexing them so they're "in sync".

----------------------

I doubt you could DIY for less time and money than purchased texture plates.
https://www.seattlefindings.com/Steel-Pattern-Plate-for-Press-and-Rolling-Mill-6_p_4972.html

How to etch rolling plates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExS-v3jHbk

Further details on this project:

I have it apart in a box for later "fixing". At a minimum, wire
brush everything, and replace the bearing (needle rollers). It
appears to be Uncle Bob's home built gizmo for rolling out stock, as
it has a fitting to ratchet the gears. Could even have had an
electric motor.

This morning I realized a small issue: the gears are held on by
set screws. Meaning that there is a missing tooth on both gears. As
long as I go slow it won't be a great problem, but ... "it offends my
professional standards." "Not set screws! Key ways!"
But between putting in key ways and possibly making new gears (and
attendant design, machine and shop time), and replacing the bearings,
this is starting to look like more like "complete over haul" than a
"quick" fix. It might be worth the money to get a second hand mill
(is such a thing is possible?)

OTOH, I am retired, so I don't have a lot of money. Or spare
time, either

pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> on Wed, 16 Mar 2022 15:48:50
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>Greetings
>
> I have a small bench top rolling mill. Works fine as long as I
>don't over do it.
> But, the rollers are flat. I'd like to put a custom pattern (or
>two) on thin brass / copper stock which will require something.
> Option A is to punch the pattern into a piece of flat steel and
>roll it through. Not a bad idea, but kind of limited to lengths of
>out put. (Some of this will be for decorating wooden boxes).
> Plan B would be to put the pattern into a roller so I can just
>crank out as many feet as I have material. "It will all get used
>sometime."
> The issue for custom rollers is of course, what is the best grade
>of steel for the rollers, and heat treating it after engraving. (Hmmm
>'I just had an idea forming in my brain...')
>
> The rollers are going to be about 2 to 3 inches long and about
>"this" diameter. (I really should unpack it and see what the actual
>sizes are...)
>
> Now, where I'm going to find the machine to do this is a complete
>second question.
>
>tschus
>pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

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On 21/03/2022 18:08, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Further details on this project:
>
> I have it apart in a box for later "fixing". At a minimum, wire
> brush everything, and replace the bearing (needle rollers). It
> appears to be Uncle Bob's home built gizmo for rolling out stock, as
> it has a fitting to ratchet the gears. Could even have had an
> electric motor.
>
> This morning I realized a small issue: the gears are held on by
> set screws. Meaning that there is a missing tooth on both gears. As
> long as I go slow it won't be a great problem, but ... "it offends my
> professional standards." "Not set screws! Key ways!"
> But between putting in key ways and possibly making new gears (and
> attendant design, machine and shop time), and replacing the bearings,
> this is starting to look like more like "complete over haul" than a
> "quick" fix. It might be worth the money to get a second hand mill
> (is such a thing is possible?)
>
> OTOH, I am retired, so I don't have a lot of money. Or spare
> time, either

Both of the rolling mills I have use bronze plain bearings, the smaller
UK made one bought new is IIRC a Durston and uses Oilite bushes, the
larger I got 2nd hand and is older and it has solid bronze bearing
blocks which supports half the shaft, the upper roller being supported
by J bolts under each journal to stop it dropping and connected to a
plate below the upper gears so they follow the upper roller.

>
> pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> on Wed, 16 Mar 2022 15:48:50
> -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> Greetings
>>
>> I have a small bench top rolling mill. Works fine as long as I
>> don't over do it.
>> But, the rollers are flat. I'd like to put a custom pattern (or
>> two) on thin brass / copper stock which will require something.
>> Option A is to punch the pattern into a piece of flat steel and
>> roll it through. Not a bad idea, but kind of limited to lengths of
>> out put. (Some of this will be for decorating wooden boxes).
>> Plan B would be to put the pattern into a roller so I can just
>> crank out as many feet as I have material. "It will all get used
>> sometime."
>> The issue for custom rollers is of course, what is the best grade
>> of steel for the rollers, and heat treating it after engraving. (Hmmm
>> 'I just had an idea forming in my brain...')
>>
>> The rollers are going to be about 2 to 3 inches long and about
>> "this" diameter. (I really should unpack it and see what the actual
>> sizes are...)
>>
>> Now, where I'm going to find the machine to do this is a complete
>> second question.
>>
>> tschus
>> pyotr

David Billington <djb@invalid.com> on Mon, 21 Mar 2022 21:46:26 +0000
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On 21/03/2022 18:08, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Further details on this project:
>>
>> I have it apart in a box for later "fixing". At a minimum, wire
>> brush everything, and replace the bearing (needle rollers). It
>> appears to be Uncle Bob's home built gizmo for rolling out stock, as
>> it has a fitting to ratchet the gears. Could even have had an
>> electric motor.
>>
>> This morning I realized a small issue: the gears are held on by
>> set screws. Meaning that there is a missing tooth on both gears. As
>> long as I go slow it won't be a great problem, but ... "it offends my
>> professional standards." "Not set screws! Key ways!"
>> But between putting in key ways and possibly making new gears (and
>> attendant design, machine and shop time), and replacing the bearings,
>> this is starting to look like more like "complete over haul" than a
>> "quick" fix. It might be worth the money to get a second hand mill
>> (is such a thing is possible?)
>>
>> OTOH, I am retired, so I don't have a lot of money. Or spare
>> time, either
>
>Both of the rolling mills I have use bronze plain bearings, the smaller
>UK made one bought new is IIRC a Durston and uses Oilite bushes, the
>larger I got 2nd hand and is older and it has solid bronze bearing
>blocks which supports half the shaft, the upper roller being supported
>by J bolts under each journal to stop it dropping and connected to a
>plate below the upper gears so they follow the upper roller.

Ah, an option I hadn't yet thought of. I mean, it is not like the
rollers are going to be spinning at high speed.
I suspect that "Uncle Bob" had a set of these rollers lying about
when he built the thing, so he went with it.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

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On 21/03/2022 22:30, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> David Billington <djb@invalid.com> on Mon, 21 Mar 2022 21:46:26 +0000
> typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> On 21/03/2022 18:08, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> Further details on this project:
>>>
>>> I have it apart in a box for later "fixing". At a minimum, wire
>>> brush everything, and replace the bearing (needle rollers). It
>>> appears to be Uncle Bob's home built gizmo for rolling out stock, as
>>> it has a fitting to ratchet the gears. Could even have had an
>>> electric motor.
>>>
>>> This morning I realized a small issue: the gears are held on by
>>> set screws. Meaning that there is a missing tooth on both gears. As
>>> long as I go slow it won't be a great problem, but ... "it offends my
>>> professional standards." "Not set screws! Key ways!"
>>> But between putting in key ways and possibly making new gears (and
>>> attendant design, machine and shop time), and replacing the bearings,
>>> this is starting to look like more like "complete over haul" than a
>>> "quick" fix. It might be worth the money to get a second hand mill
>>> (is such a thing is possible?)
>>>
>>> OTOH, I am retired, so I don't have a lot of money. Or spare
>>> time, either
>> Both of the rolling mills I have use bronze plain bearings, the smaller
>> UK made one bought new is IIRC a Durston and uses Oilite bushes, the
>> larger I got 2nd hand and is older and it has solid bronze bearing
>> blocks which supports half the shaft, the upper roller being supported
>> by J bolts under each journal to stop it dropping and connected to a
>> plate below the upper gears so they follow the upper roller.
> Ah, an option I hadn't yet thought of. I mean, it is not like the
> rollers are going to be spinning at high speed.
> I suspect that "Uncle Bob" had a set of these rollers lying about
> when he built the thing, so he went with it.

Is your rolling mill home made? Is uncle Bob a stand back and hold my
beer kind of guy?

The smaller one I have may be an early Durston and I can't find any
labels on it but I have found the same units online labelled Durston and
it appears very well made. It's built up rather than the current ones
which all seem to be cast. Here's a link to one
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/durston-rolling-mill-used-vintage-1934480468
, I think the construction is fairly self explanatory but then I have
one so know what I'm looking at.

I've been following this thread to see what people do or would do with
rollers. So far I've been able to make the functional (not artistic) U
shapes I need with conduit benders or cutting at angles and welding. I
hardly ever use my HF Compact Bender or the rollers on my 3-in-1 sheet metal
machine. It only made one section of stainless stove pipe from some scrap.

What would you make with a ring or tubing roller?

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> on Tue, 22 Mar 2022 06:58:22
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>I've been following this thread to see what people do or would do with
>rollers. So far I've been able to make the functional (not artistic) U
>shapes I need with conduit benders or cutting at angles and welding. I
>hardly ever use my HF Compact Bender or the rollers on my 3-in-1 sheet metal
>machine. It only made one section of stainless stove pipe from some scrap.
>
>What would you make with a ring or tubing roller?

as this is about 2 1/2 wide rollers, not sure.

I can see having a tube roller for making spiral tubing, say for a
condenser / cooler tube. But ...
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

--
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David Billington <djb@invalid.com> on Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:27:20 +0000
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>> I suspect that "Uncle Bob" had a set of these rollers lying about
>> when he built the thing, so he went with it.

oops, I meant "bearings"
>
>Is your rolling mill home made? Is uncle Bob a stand back and hold my
>beer kind of guy?

It seems so. It is rather well made, except for a couple design
issues, which are as much "if I was making this, I do it another way."

As for "uncle bob" - no idea. I was gifted it a bunch of years ago
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news:672k3h5bs60icj89q5ogkjatcj9kc0dj87@4ax.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> on Tue, 22 Mar 2022 06:58:22
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>I've been following this thread to see what people do or would do with
>rollers. So far I've been able to make the functional (not artistic) U
>shapes I need with conduit benders or cutting at angles and welding. I
>hardly ever use my HF Compact Bender or the rollers on my 3-in-1 sheet
>metal
>machine. It only made one section of stainless stove pipe from some scrap.
>
>What would you make with a ring or tubing roller?

as this is about 2 1/2 wide rollers, not sure.

I can see having a tube roller for making spiral tubing, say for a
condenser / cooler tube. But ...

-------------------

Thanks, that is a good idea if you already have a tube roller, but not much
justification to buy one. I'd turn a wooden coil form from firewood or use
brake line bending pliers, perhaps with a screw tapped in one handle as a
stop.

I copied a long and complex replacement brake line in NiCopp using brake
line pliers and was impressed with how easy it was. I think NiCopp is easier
to properly double-lap flare than steel too.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:42:31 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>I copied a long and complex replacement brake line in NiCopp using brake
>line pliers and was impressed with how easy it was. I think NiCopp is easier
>to properly double-lap flare than steel too.

I've bent this type a couple times now using just my hands. Lines that
run along the rear axle. It seems to be very, very forgiving and is
more like bending stiff copper wire than tubing. Well worth the
extra price for it which isn't that much more really :)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t1f633$vqb$1@dont-email.me...

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:42:31 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>I copied a long and complex replacement brake line in NiCopp using brake
>line pliers and was impressed with how easy it was. I think NiCopp is
>easier
>to properly double-lap flare than steel too.

I've bent this type a couple times now using just my hands. Lines that
run along the rear axle. It seems to be very, very forgiving and is
more like bending stiff copper wire than tubing. Well worth the
extra price for it which isn't that much more really :)

----------------

I've bent less intricate lines by hand, less neatly. This one runs from
front to rear of my truck along a frame rail and dodges many attachments
with sharp corners that might collapse if bent by hand, wasting the finished
section of the line. The pliers bend over grooved rolls.

For high pressure tubing other than automotive brakes, Parker has the
Ferulok system which is less uncertain than double-lap flaring. I used it to
add hydraulics to my tractor.
https://www.mfcp.com/technical-info/ferulok

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:31:34 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>I've bent less intricate lines by hand, less neatly. This one runs from
>front to rear of my truck along a frame rail and dodges many attachments
>with sharp corners that might collapse if bent by hand, wasting the finished
>section of the line. The pliers bend over grooved rolls.

That line needed to be replaced too ;-)

Along with another rear wheel cylinder, both front calipers, their
hoses and lines leading to them... Plus numerous other things. I just
sold the truck and told the guy about all its woes. But for rust I
would still be driving it. Got tired of working on it for almost 40
years...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t1fnr3$e5t$1@dont-email.me...

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:31:34 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>I've bent less intricate lines by hand, less neatly. This one runs from
>front to rear of my truck along a frame rail and dodges many attachments
>with sharp corners that might collapse if bent by hand, wasting the
>finished
>section of the line. The pliers bend over grooved rolls.

That line needed to be replaced too ;-)

Along with another rear wheel cylinder, both front calipers, their
hoses and lines leading to them... Plus numerous other things. I just
sold the truck and told the guy about all its woes. But for rust I
would still be driving it. Got tired of working on it for almost 40
years...

-------------------------

Once I retired and no longer had to drive in bad weather the rust problems
almost stopped. Spraying LPS-3 underneath helped some but it didn't
withstand the high speed blast of salty water or protect enclosed areas I
couldn't reach well enough. So far the 1991 Ranger still passes state
inspection (yesterday) and the body is all steel, just not all original
steel. My MIG welder repaid its cost plus night school tuition on the first
job. The body shop estimate to fix a dime sized rust hole was $800, before
painting. The dealer wanted $3000, probably to replace the whole panel.

The inspector told me he was flat out busy because people are fixing their
old cars instead of replacing them. I think I see why after test driving
several. The new ones look nicer and have many fancy features (to break) but
are less functional, my Ranger has a 7' bed that holds 4'x8' plywood or
sheetrock with the tailgate tied half way up via a convenient notch. It
takes strong roof racks that clamp into the rain gutters and effectively
extend my ladder rack over the cab to carry 12' corrugated panels and 16'
lumber and steel. My neighbors' high-end full sized trucks can't do that.

I signed up for two night school auto repair courses in April. Like the
truck my knowledge is 30 years out of date.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:44:05 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>Once I retired and no longer had to drive in bad weather the rust problems
>almost stopped. Spraying LPS-3 underneath helped some but it didn't
>withstand the high speed blast of salty water or protect enclosed areas I
>couldn't reach well enough. So far the 1991 Ranger still passes state
>inspection (yesterday) and the body is all steel, just not all original
>steel. My MIG welder repaid its cost plus night school tuition on the first
>job. The body shop estimate to fix a dime sized rust hole was $800, before
>painting. The dealer wanted $3000, probably to replace the whole panel.
>
>The inspector told me he was flat out busy because people are fixing their
>old cars instead of replacing them. I think I see why after test driving
>several. The new ones look nicer and have many fancy features (to break) but
>are less functional, my Ranger has a 7' bed that holds 4'x8' plywood or
>sheetrock with the tailgate tied half way up via a convenient notch. It
>takes strong roof racks that clamp into the rain gutters and effectively
>extend my ladder rack over the cab to carry 12' corrugated panels and 16'
>lumber and steel. My neighbors' high-end full sized trucks can't do that.
>
>I signed up for two night school auto repair courses in April. Like the
>truck my knowledge is 30 years out of date.

I can do the rust work, mechanical, electrical... but it needs to be
+60 deg for my fingers to work. In the winter time I have the time and
tools. I don't have an open garage that is warm enough to work in :(

I replaced it with a 2013 Chevy Impala LS. Actually like it a whole lot
better than I originally thought I would. Next model up has a fold down
rear seat back... but a couple bolts and some wrestling gets the rear
seat back out. Was able shove a 10 foot stick of 1-1/4" EMT through the
trunk and up past the tranny shift and still close the lid ;-) Trunk is
pretty roomy and so is the rear seat area.

I drive less than 1000 miles now per year. Around three tanks of gas.
This will likely be that last vehicle I own. They're just way too
expensive to have around anymore...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI