On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t55qei$d2r$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 5/7/2022 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t549ci$k5n$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that it was
>> going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there are times
>> when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle . Same with the
>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the various
>> mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that one day
>> I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither machine
>> has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to the
>> mill .
>>
>> ----------
>> How accurately can you cut to height (Z axis) on the RF-45? The Z axis
>> was the RF-31's worst failing. I could set it to 0.001" but tightening
>> the spindle clamp shifted it inconsistently.
>>
>
>   It cuts quite accurately . The clamp system puts no vertical force on
> the spindle . I have more problems with the spindle "climbing" if I try
> a cut without locking it . I have watched the Z readout on the DRO as I
> tighten the clamp and it doesn't move at all .
>
> -----------------------
>
> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better than my
> mill, which I consider big enough.
>

I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need it
and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put a 3
phase motor with a VFD on it .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

On 5/7/2022 12:19 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/6/2022 4:01 PM, Snag wrote:
>> On 5/6/2022 10:40 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 5/6/2022 6:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> The difficult question for a beginner is what to buy,
>>>
>>> That is a very difficult question, however there are a group of
>>> newbies who buy a machine because its affordable and don't really
>>> know what to do with it.  I sort of started that way.  My first
>>> "real" machine tool was a 7x10 mini lathe from Harbor Freight.  My
>>> wife gave it to me for Christmas.  I piddled with it a bit mostly
>>> turning metal into chips.  I had little knowledge or skill about
>>> turning.  I think the first real useful real world project I made
>>> also came from my wife.  She suggested a bracket to mount on the back
>>> of a piece of medical equipment that would facilitate holding the
>>> consumable's dispensers without having to drill more holes in a wall
>>> and mount it separately.  I turned a couple dozen tiny little nail
>>> head shoulder bolts as part of the project and it worked very well.
>>> The dispenser looked just like it belong instead of looking tacked
>>> up.  I'm not trying to SELL a machine.  Maybe if somebody had given
>>> me one for this project I might highlight its unique features if any
>>> over some other machines, but nobody did.  I paid full retail for one
>>> of the most sold (I think) small machines for non-machinists.  What I
>>> am trying to do is help people do something with the machine they have.
>>>
>>> There is also the tinkerer who buys this machine because they can
>>> afford it, but plan to improve it a little bit at a time because its
>>> not as much cash out of pocket all at once.  There may be some of
>>> that in this series, but there are plenty of guys who have posted a
>>> video titled, "Look at What I Did to Make My Machine Less of a POS."
>>>
>>> I expect I will recommend against buying any machine in this class
>>> with the caveat that "if you already have it or its all you can
>>> afford these are some things you may be able to do with it."  I am
>>> open to changing my mind by the end of the series, but I do have a
>>> clear prejudice against this machine starting out.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that it
>> was going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there are
>> times when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle .
>
> That was one of the big deciding factors for me with the PM1440ELB.  A
> large thru spindle bore.  At thee time it was marginally cheaper than
> the simialr size Grizzly, and had a through spindle bore.
>
>  Same with the
>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the
>> various mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that
>> one day I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither
>> machine has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to the
>> mill .
>
> These is an denigrating seeming attitude I see sometimes in machining
> groups.  "I don't NEED that," or "I never needed that." Sometimes its
> just an observation, but most times it seems like either a little bit
> sour grapes or a put down of somebody who, "Does need that."
>
> Story time.
> One time I showed a picture of a screw up I made with a round over bit.
>  Worse it was a $100 carbide round over bit.  I thought it was amusing.
>  Nothing more.  A couple of the manual machinists int he group were
> quick to quip, "I don't need CNC to cut round overs."  The fact is
> neither do I.  I cut my first round overs on an RF30.  I didn't respond
> defensively that I could do it manually too.
>
> Instead I posted a short video of making a dozen t-nuts start to finish
> on the KMB1 in the time it might take them to make one or two and said,
> "Yep.  You can makes these manually too."
>
> I can do a lot with a little, but that doesn't mean I want to.  It
> doesn't mean I want to.  I would much rather do it better and/or faster
> so I can move on to the next project or go fishing.
>
> Really the whole point though of this video series is to help people do
> a lot with a little.  Most of it will be aimed at beginners or even
> total non-machinists.  I hope anybody who isn't a master might learn
> something even if they only watch it so they can make themselves feel
> better by finding things I do to find fault with.
>
> I found the same thing in motorcycles.  People who believe and spout
> off, "If it ain't a Harley it ain't a motorcycle."  "People who sneer
> down their nose at Harley riders as "Slobs humping their rolling speed
> bumps," and the poor guy who bought his first motorcycle that isn't as
> fast as squid mobile or as comfortable as a pie to pie rider's bike.
> I've owned a bunch of motorcycles over the years and more than a couple
> Harley's, and honestly they have all had things that were good about
> them.  I'd ride any one of them again today if I still had them.
>
> Well, I haven't owned as many mills as motorcycles.  Not by a factor of
> maybe three, but right now there are 9 milling machines in my shop.  My
> "home" shop that was never intended to be a machine shop at all when I
> put up the building. Every single one of them has some value.  I like to
> think about what I CAN do with them and why I keep them rather than how
> some other machine in the shop is better or how I don't need the
> features on one because I can hack it out on one of the smaller less
> featured machines.
>
> Better or easier doesn't mean what you have is bad.  Its just better or
> easier.  I can drill holes in concrete, brick, or rock with a 3lb hammer
> and a star drill. If I have the time to spend I don't "need" a 1" rotary
> spline drive rotary hammer to do the job.  Just like if the bigger
> contractor has a core drill it doesn't mean my rotary hammer is bad.  It
> just means he can do the job easier, and maybe faster.
>
> You are right though.  A round column mill does have a huge deficiency.
>  There are work arounds, and if that is what they have that's what they
> have to use.
>
> By the way, Thank you.  I fully intend to credit you, and Jim and maybe
> a couple others atleast in the introductory video as inspiration and for
> helping me clarify my own motivations and goals for doing this.  Almost
> everybody in this conversation except one has been very helpful in that
> regard.
>
>
> --
> Bob la Londe
> Hobbyist, Hack, Wannabee Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a "Real"
> Machinist.
>

Thanks , you just bumped my ego a bit ... I've found that just about
every person I meet knows something that I don't - and need to . The
lathe was an impulse buy , I saw it in a pawn shop that I traded with
frequently (buying tools , not pawning my stiff) and knew right away
that it was put there for me . I waited a couple of months for the price
to fall some before I made an offer because I knew there is little
demand for that sort of thing in Memphis . It came very well tooled with
everything but a motor , and I already had a line on one .
As far as motorcycles , I've always thought that it not what you ride
as much as it is you do ... my personal choice is Harley's but there are
many motorcycles out there , choose the one that fits your needs and
wants .
Ride on , Man !
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

"Snag" wrote in message news:t570u8$kkh$1@dont-email.me...

On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better than my
> mill, which I consider big enough.
>

I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need it
and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put a 3
phase motor with a VFD on it .

----------------------

I'd use the extra size if I had it. My mill is only big enough with extra
external supports, like hanging the other end of long stock from the
ceiling. I think it's big enough to not need upgrading as a beginner's hobby
machine but I build practical working machinery up to 16 feet long. The
bandsaw mill's frame is 7 feet long. Drilling the wheel axle holes parallel
would challenge a 9" x 49" Bridgeport.

Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:t53ui9$k4t$2@reader1.panix.com...
>
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
> ...
>
> You're right. To be superior I'd need some old timer story about buying a
> "motor drill" and then upgrading to a fancier model. I've never though
> about upgrading tools or anything like that before. Maybe you can make a
> seven part video series about how this works.
>
> ------------------
>
> I also started by modifying a cheap drill press for X-Y milling. It was good
> enough to machine the plastic electrical connector housings I needed for my
> homebrew computer. Then I bought a crappy worn mini lathe and made a milling
> attachment for it in night school.
>
> Objectively the drill press and AA lathe were wastes of time and money but
> those projects taught me a feel for speeds and feeds and the forces of
> cutting metal, and that I liked doing it enough to invest in decent
> machinery, my $1200 SB lathe and $800 Clausing mill.
>
> Bob isn't pounding his chest to proclaim he's bigger and better than you, he
> earned what he has and now generously shares it. Free yourself from the
> zero-sum delusion that you can rise only by pulling down others. That's for
> losers and communists.

Bob got upset and stormed off, not me. He must be busy making those 17
videos he spent hours writing about. Why watch a video when you cam just
read about it instead?

On 5/4/2022 12:35 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> I sold my first injection molds made on a tiny Taig CNC milling machine.
> Compared to a half million dollar Haas mold maker it too was a POS.
>
> In the spirit of paying it forward I am working on a video series making
> "useful" molds on a PIECE Of Shi.. Er Sweet Potato Mini Manual Milling
> Machine.  Most of these "molds" will not be commercial resale grade, but
> if anybody wants to buy one... The goal is to give people who couldn't
> afford anything better than a Seig X2 in one of its many variations or
> variations on paint scheme to do something fun and possibly useful.
>
> I have no use for it.  I already have a South Bend Knee Mill that is
> very nice for my manual milling needs.  At first I thought about using
> that for the project.  That would be cheating.  Its as much better than
> an X2 clone as a half million dollar Haas mold cutter is to a Taig.  It
> would be perceived as disingenuous to use a $24000 machine to
> demonstrate what you "can do" on a $1000 machine.  It would be perceived
> that way because it would be true.  It would be blatantly dishonest to
> say "because I can do it on a 2 ton 5 HP knee mill with DROs and power
> feeds that you can do it on a 130 lb .3 horsepower Piece of Shi... Err
> Sweet Potato."
>
> In spite of my belief in spending money to make money and spending money
> to save time because time is money... I am still inherently frugal.
> Finally I decided to my integrity was worth than that.  I bought one.
> There are cheaper mills, but they are so small ass to not be practical
> for this experiment.  I did buy the absolute cheapest one I could find.
> It was not the one from Harbor Freight.  Harbor Freight had the cheapest
> sticker price I could find, but it was online only.  After tax and
> shipping it was about 6 dollars more expensive than the one I bought.
>
> The first video will be an introduction covering this and maybe with a
> fast motion overview of the first mold.  It will be a concept
> introduction video.
>
> Before Episode One which will probably be about making a lead casting
> mold of some kind there will be some beginner videos.
>
> A. Machine over view and deficiencies.
> B. Work holding and Work Holding on a budget.
> C  Tool Selection and tool holding with a focus on the initial project
> videos.
> D. Minimum tooling and best cost benefit for part location, and machine
> tram and alignment.
>
> That may be put into just two videos and anybody who already knows how
> they will do those things will be encouraged to skip them and wait for
> Episode One.
>
>

I've done a few videos in the past. Some very seat of the pants one
take as it happens sort of things. Back in the early days of YouTube
those were quite popular. In fact my most watched video ever was on
soft plastic plastisol rubber injection in just such a format. I setup
a camera, made some rubber fishing lures, and uploaded it all. It was
pretty much terrible in every way including technically about the
process. Now people expect a better produced, distilled, and curated
video. Some want detailed drawn explanations of every process, and some
want you to magically know what they personally want to know and include
not one word or grunt that doesn't personally serve them. Obviously you
can't do both.

I've spent a while thinking about this project. I've probably been
thinking about if for a year. I even dismissed it a couple times as
non-productive and unprofitable. It just keeps coming back into my
thoughts. I finally started an outline which I shared with a publisher
I know. I quickly realized the introduction alone could get bogged down
in basics people need to know, but would turn off those who just want to
get to the meat of the matter. The publisher's suggestion was to just
leave that out and let them flounder with the missing material. I
didn't like that. I'm not creating the series for people who already
know everything, and I fully expect a large portion of the three people
who watch the series to know very little about machining. Of course I
can't please everybody, and some I could not give a damn if they are
pleased or not, but I do want it to have wider appeal. I decided to
compromise.

The introduction will outline what the series is about and show some
basic information. There will be supplemental videos along the way for
those who need more, and then there will be actual episodes that show
individual mold projects. People who already know how they will do
everything or have a good grasp of the basics can skip the supplemental
videos. They will be invited to skip the supplemental videos, and in
those where there are options, the best option and the cheapest option
will be presented first.

This format should keep all videos relatively short. Ideally around 5
minute, but some will certainly have to be a little longer. I hope that
none exceed 15 minutes with those being mostly limited to the project
episodes.

Hence:

1. Introduction: What its about
2. Supplemental: About the machine & its limitations
3. Supplemental: Work Holding & Locating
4. Supplemental: Tool holding and selection
5. Episode One: Making a _____ Mold On a Manual Milling Machine
6. Episode Two: Making a _____ Mold On a Manual Milling Machine
7. Supplemental: The first machine improvement(s).
8. Supplemental: Good enough vs tolerance stacking
This may be covered in Episode One instead.
9. More...

etc etc etc... Again, know-it-alls are encouraged to skip all the
supplemental videos. Those who think I am full of shit are encouraged
to skip all the videos. Those who only watch so they can build
themselves up by tearing me down are welcome, but unpleasantness of any
kind will be censored in the comments. It would be best if they kept
their smug superiority to themselves. Imagine how great it will make
you feel to know you are better, smarter, more knowledgeable, more
handsome, and have larger procreative organs while I ignorantly blather
on without even knowing it.

So that it doesn't get bogged down in waiting I hope to do most of the
video and outline work for 1-5 together so that each of those can be
published only a few days apart. I don't want somebody to watch the
introduction and then have to wait a month for Episode One, and I don't
want those who want more help getting started to not have the option to
get it before Episode One is published.

I considered dropping all of the first block of videos at one time, but
I think that could be just as bad as dropping a single 40 minute long
video. It would instantly lose those people who don't have an attention
span much longer than a sound bite.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/7/2022 7:30 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t570u8$kkh$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>
>> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better than
>> my mill, which I consider big enough.
>>
>
>   I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need it
> and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put a 3
> phase motor with a VFD on it .
>
> ----------------------
>
> I'd use the extra size if I had it. My mill is only big enough with
> extra external supports, like hanging the other end of long stock from
> the ceiling. I think it's big enough to not need upgrading as a
> beginner's hobby machine but I build practical working machinery up to
> 16 feet long. The bandsaw mill's frame is 7 feet long. Drilling the
> wheel axle holes parallel would challenge a 9" x 49" Bridgeport.
>

External supports are a real part of machine work. Whether its
machinist jacks on parts that overhang past your vise jaws, or a roller
stand 10 feet behind your horizontal band saw.

I doubt I will ever need it, but I positioned the knee mill so I can
crank the table over and mount a stand on it to support an extra long
work piece on the 14x40 lathe. I think accepting that not every
solution is elegant is just part of machine work.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/7/2022 4:55 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t55qei$d2r$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 5/7/2022 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t549ci$k5n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that it was
>>> going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there are times
>>> when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle . Same with the
>>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the various
>>> mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that one day
>>> I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither machine
>>> has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to the
>>> mill .
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> How accurately can you cut to height (Z axis) on the RF-45? The Z
>>> axis was the RF-31's worst failing. I could set it to 0.001" but
>>> tightening the spindle clamp shifted it inconsistently.
>>>
>>
>>    It cuts quite accurately . The clamp system puts no vertical force on
>> the spindle . I have more problems with the spindle "climbing" if I try
>> a cut without locking it . I have watched the Z readout on the DRO as I
>> tighten the clamp and it doesn't move at all .
>>
>> -----------------------
>>
>> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better than
>> my mill, which I consider big enough.
>>
>
>   I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need it
> and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put a 3
> phase motor with a VFD on it.

Many simple VFD solutions leave you with very little torque at low RPM.
Variable pulley or step sheaves have the advantage of giving you full
motor power at any spindle speed.

One of the disadvantages of pulley sheave gearing for speed control is
sometimes not quite enough torque to get everything spinning up without
lugging in the highest speed settings. I've noticed this more on a lathe
than a mill.

3 phase has the advantage (in theory) of having less motor ripple when
you are chasing tenths. Supposedly well regulated DC motors are even
better, but I don't know that. Of course being able to adjust speed on
the fly quickly and easily to precisely nail your optimum surface speed
is a big deal. Particularly on the lathe, and its the one reason I
would seriously consider swapping my 14x40 lathe from single phase to
three phase.

Some VFDs can be programmed to help with many issues. Increased current
for brief periods when needed, slower ramp to speed, soft braking, etc.

Motor selection can also be a big deal. No matter what I do with a VFD
I won't get much low speed torque on a spindle designed to turn 24K at
230V and 400hz, but a big industrial 4 pole motor designed to run 1.8K
at 60Hz might still have some usable power as low as 90 RPM at 3hz.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/8/2022 12:51 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/7/2022 4:55 PM, Snag wrote:
>> On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t55qei$d2r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 5/7/2022 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t549ci$k5n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that it
>>>> was
>>>> going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there are
>>>> times
>>>> when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle . Same with the
>>>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the
>>>> various
>>>> mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that one day
>>>> I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither machine
>>>> has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>>>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to the
>>>> mill .
>>>>
>>>> ----------
>>>> How accurately can you cut to height (Z axis) on the RF-45? The Z
>>>> axis was the RF-31's worst failing. I could set it to 0.001" but
>>>> tightening the spindle clamp shifted it inconsistently.
>>>>
>>>
>>>    It cuts quite accurately . The clamp system puts no vertical force on
>>> the spindle . I have more problems with the spindle "climbing" if I try
>>> a cut without locking it . I have watched the Z readout on the DRO as I
>>> tighten the clamp and it doesn't move at all .
>>>
>>> -----------------------
>>>
>>> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better than
>>> my mill, which I consider big enough.
>>>
>>
>>    I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need
>> it and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put a
>> 3 phase motor with a VFD on it.
>
> Many simple VFD solutions leave you with very little torque at low RPM.
>  Variable pulley or step sheaves have the advantage of giving you full
> motor power at any spindle speed.
>
> One of the disadvantages of pulley sheave gearing for speed control is
> sometimes not quite enough torque to get everything spinning up without
> lugging in the highest speed settings. I've noticed this more on a lathe
> than a mill.
>
> 3 phase has the advantage (in theory) of having less motor ripple when
> you are chasing tenths.  Supposedly well regulated DC motors are even
> better, but I don't know that.  Of course being able to adjust speed on
> the fly quickly and easily to precisely nail your optimum surface speed
> is a big deal.  Particularly on the lathe, and its the one reason I
> would seriously consider swapping my 14x40 lathe from single phase to
> three phase.
>
> Some VFDs can be programmed to help with many issues.  Increased current
> for brief periods when needed, slower ramp to speed, soft braking, etc.
>
> Motor selection can also be a big deal.  No matter what I do with a VFD
> I won't get much low speed torque on a spindle designed to turn 24K at
> 230V and 400hz, but a big industrial 4 pole motor designed to run 1.8K
> at 60Hz might still have some usable power as low as 90 RPM at 3hz.
>

This is a 6 speed gear drive ... there are times when the slowest
isn't slow enough , and same on the other end of the speed range . And
sometimes you just can't find that "right" speed for the operation .
Having a power feed has lessened some of those problems but still
sometimes it's a compromise .
<<I've been out "gardening" all day and I'm beat! But everything but
one strip is ready for planting , that section was a bit too wet today.>>

--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t58v6d$n2l$1@dont-email.me...

....I think accepting that not every
solution is elegant is just part of machine work.

-----------------

Elegant??? I just did a metalworking job on a doormat on the hood of my
truck.

It was the answer to a question I've mentioned here several times, how to
bend tubing to an arbitrary large radius. My Sterilite laundry basket's
handle broke while carrying a large load of wet insulated winter clothes out
back to the clothesline. 3/4" EMT is the right size to replace the handle
and reinforce the rim around it, so I tried matching the basket rim curve.
It turned out to be very easy since the feel of bending changes when the
metal yields. I made a series of slight yield-point bends with a conduit
bender and controlled the radius by the spacing between them, judged by eye.
It looks like one continuous bend.

The truck hood was just a large handy outdoor bench to drill the attaching
screw holes.

This was the fifth basket I've broken at the handle, and time to find a
permanent solution.

On 5/8/2022 3:32 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 5/8/2022 12:51 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 5/7/2022 4:55 PM, Snag wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t55qei$d2r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 5/7/2022 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t549ci$k5n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that
>>>>> it was
>>>>> going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there are
>>>>> times
>>>>> when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle . Same with the
>>>>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the
>>>>> various
>>>>> mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that one day
>>>>> I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither machine
>>>>> has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>>>>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to the
>>>>> mill .
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------
>>>>> How accurately can you cut to height (Z axis) on the RF-45? The Z
>>>>> axis was the RF-31's worst failing. I could set it to 0.001" but
>>>>> tightening the spindle clamp shifted it inconsistently.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    It cuts quite accurately . The clamp system puts no vertical
>>>> force on
>>>> the spindle . I have more problems with the spindle "climbing" if I try
>>>> a cut without locking it . I have watched the Z readout on the DRO as I
>>>> tighten the clamp and it doesn't move at all .
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>
>>>> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better than
>>>> my mill, which I consider big enough.
>>>>
>>>
>>>    I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need
>>> it and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put a
>>> 3 phase motor with a VFD on it.
>>
>> Many simple VFD solutions leave you with very little torque at low
>> RPM.   Variable pulley or step sheaves have the advantage of giving
>> you full motor power at any spindle speed.
>>
>> One of the disadvantages of pulley sheave gearing for speed control is
>> sometimes not quite enough torque to get everything spinning up
>> without lugging in the highest speed settings. I've noticed this more
>> on a lathe than a mill.
>>
>> 3 phase has the advantage (in theory) of having less motor ripple when
>> you are chasing tenths.  Supposedly well regulated DC motors are even
>> better, but I don't know that.  Of course being able to adjust speed
>> on the fly quickly and easily to precisely nail your optimum surface
>> speed is a big deal.  Particularly on the lathe, and its the one
>> reason I would seriously consider swapping my 14x40 lathe from single
>> phase to three phase.
>>
>> Some VFDs can be programmed to help with many issues.  Increased
>> current for brief periods when needed, slower ramp to speed, soft
>> braking, etc.
>>
>> Motor selection can also be a big deal.  No matter what I do with a
>> VFD I won't get much low speed torque on a spindle designed to turn
>> 24K at 230V and 400hz, but a big industrial 4 pole motor designed to
>> run 1.8K at 60Hz might still have some usable power as low as 90 RPM
>> at 3hz.
>>
>
>   This is a 6 speed gear drive ... there are times when the slowest
> isn't slow enough , and same on the other end of the speed range . And
> sometimes you just can't find that "right" speed for the operation .
> Having a power feed has lessened some of those problems but still
> sometimes it's a compromise .
>   <<I've been out "gardening" all day and I'm beat! But everything but
> one strip is ready for planting , that section was a bit too wet today.>>
>
>

I'm not a big fan of gear head mills, but I have one and at one time I
had another. (an RF45 clone no less) Most folks convert them to belt
drives and put a two or three speed pulley on them with a bigger 3 phase
motor. At lower speeds you will wonder if your motor is running it will
be so quiet compared to that gear head noise.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/8/2022 5:41 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/8/2022 3:32 PM, Snag wrote:
>> On 5/8/2022 12:51 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2022 4:55 PM, Snag wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t55qei$d2r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/7/2022 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t549ci$k5n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that
>>>>>> it was
>>>>>> going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there are
>>>>>> times
>>>>>> when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle . Same with the
>>>>>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the
>>>>>> various
>>>>>> mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that one
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither
>>>>>> machine
>>>>>> has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>>>>>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to the
>>>>>> mill .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>> How accurately can you cut to height (Z axis) on the RF-45? The Z
>>>>>> axis was the RF-31's worst failing. I could set it to 0.001" but
>>>>>> tightening the spindle clamp shifted it inconsistently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    It cuts quite accurately . The clamp system puts no vertical
>>>>> force on
>>>>> the spindle . I have more problems with the spindle "climbing" if I
>>>>> try
>>>>> a cut without locking it . I have watched the Z readout on the DRO
>>>>> as I
>>>>> tighten the clamp and it doesn't move at all .
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better
>>>>> than my mill, which I consider big enough.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to need
>>>> it and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is to put
>>>> a 3 phase motor with a VFD on it.
>>>
>>> Many simple VFD solutions leave you with very little torque at low
>>> RPM.   Variable pulley or step sheaves have the advantage of giving
>>> you full motor power at any spindle speed.
>>>
>>> One of the disadvantages of pulley sheave gearing for speed control
>>> is sometimes not quite enough torque to get everything spinning up
>>> without lugging in the highest speed settings. I've noticed this more
>>> on a lathe than a mill.
>>>
>>> 3 phase has the advantage (in theory) of having less motor ripple
>>> when you are chasing tenths.  Supposedly well regulated DC motors are
>>> even better, but I don't know that.  Of course being able to adjust
>>> speed on the fly quickly and easily to precisely nail your optimum
>>> surface speed is a big deal.  Particularly on the lathe, and its the
>>> one reason I would seriously consider swapping my 14x40 lathe from
>>> single phase to three phase.
>>>
>>> Some VFDs can be programmed to help with many issues.  Increased
>>> current for brief periods when needed, slower ramp to speed, soft
>>> braking, etc.
>>>
>>> Motor selection can also be a big deal.  No matter what I do with a
>>> VFD I won't get much low speed torque on a spindle designed to turn
>>> 24K at 230V and 400hz, but a big industrial 4 pole motor designed to
>>> run 1.8K at 60Hz might still have some usable power as low as 90 RPM
>>> at 3hz.
>>>
>>
>>    This is a 6 speed gear drive ... there are times when the slowest
>> isn't slow enough , and same on the other end of the speed range . And
>> sometimes you just can't find that "right" speed for the operation .
>> Having a power feed has lessened some of those problems but still
>> sometimes it's a compromise .
>>    <<I've been out "gardening" all day and I'm beat! But everything
>> but one strip is ready for planting , that section was a bit too wet
>> today.>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I'm not a big fan of gear head mills, but I have one and at one time I
> had another. (an RF45 clone no less)  Most folks convert them to belt
> drives and put a two or three speed pulley on them with a bigger 3 phase
> motor. At lower speeds you will wonder if your motor is running it will
> be so quiet compared to that gear head noise.
>
>
>
>

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know a VFD and a 3 phase motor is not a
magic bullet that just takes care of everything. It can take a small
amount of learning and planning to wind up with a solution that is
optimum for you.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/8/2022 7:43 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/8/2022 5:41 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 5/8/2022 3:32 PM, Snag wrote:
>>> On 5/8/2022 12:51 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2022 4:55 PM, Snag wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2022 10:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t55qei$d2r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/7/2022 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t549ci$k5n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    I knew when I bought the Logan (PowrKraft) 10 x 31" lathe that
>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>> going to do the kind of stuff I'm interested in - though there
>>>>>>> are times
>>>>>>> when I wish it had a bigger hole through the spindle . Same with the
>>>>>>> RF45 clone bench-top mill . I did do a lot of research about the
>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>> mill-drill machines , almost bought a RF31 ... But I knew that
>>>>>>> one day
>>>>>>> I'd need to move the head in the middle of a job . And neither
>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>> has ever disappointed me . And neither machine has ever needed
>>>>>>> "improvements" to do their job . Unless you count adding a DRO to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> mill .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>> How accurately can you cut to height (Z axis) on the RF-45? The Z
>>>>>>> axis was the RF-31's worst failing. I could set it to 0.001" but
>>>>>>> tightening the spindle clamp shifted it inconsistently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    It cuts quite accurately . The clamp system puts no vertical
>>>>>> force on
>>>>>> the spindle . I have more problems with the spindle "climbing" if
>>>>>> I try
>>>>>> a cut without locking it . I have watched the Z readout on the DRO
>>>>>> as I
>>>>>> tighten the clamp and it doesn't move at all .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The RF-45's power and working envelope are significantly better
>>>>>> than my mill, which I consider big enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    I figger it's much better to have it and not need it than to
>>>>> need it and not have it ... actually the only thing I'd change is
>>>>> to put a 3 phase motor with a VFD on it.
>>>>
>>>> Many simple VFD solutions leave you with very little torque at low
>>>> RPM.   Variable pulley or step sheaves have the advantage of giving
>>>> you full motor power at any spindle speed.
>>>>
>>>> One of the disadvantages of pulley sheave gearing for speed control
>>>> is sometimes not quite enough torque to get everything spinning up
>>>> without lugging in the highest speed settings. I've noticed this
>>>> more on a lathe than a mill.
>>>>
>>>> 3 phase has the advantage (in theory) of having less motor ripple
>>>> when you are chasing tenths.  Supposedly well regulated DC motors
>>>> are even better, but I don't know that.  Of course being able to
>>>> adjust speed on the fly quickly and easily to precisely nail your
>>>> optimum surface speed is a big deal.  Particularly on the lathe, and
>>>> its the one reason I would seriously consider swapping my 14x40
>>>> lathe from single phase to three phase.
>>>>
>>>> Some VFDs can be programmed to help with many issues.  Increased
>>>> current for brief periods when needed, slower ramp to speed, soft
>>>> braking, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Motor selection can also be a big deal.  No matter what I do with a
>>>> VFD I won't get much low speed torque on a spindle designed to turn
>>>> 24K at 230V and 400hz, but a big industrial 4 pole motor designed to
>>>> run 1.8K at 60Hz might still have some usable power as low as 90 RPM
>>>> at 3hz.
>>>>
>>>
>>>    This is a 6 speed gear drive ... there are times when the slowest
>>> isn't slow enough , and same on the other end of the speed range .
>>> And sometimes you just can't find that "right" speed for the
>>> operation . Having a power feed has lessened some of those problems
>>> but still sometimes it's a compromise .
>>>    <<I've been out "gardening" all day and I'm beat! But everything
>>> but one strip is ready for planting , that section was a bit too wet
>>> today.>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not a big fan of gear head mills, but I have one and at one time I
>> had another. (an RF45 clone no less)  Most folks convert them to belt
>> drives and put a two or three speed pulley on them with a bigger 3
>> phase motor. At lower speeds you will wonder if your motor is running
>> it will be so quiet compared to that gear head noise.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Anyway, I just wanted to let you know a VFD and a 3 phase motor is not a
> magic bullet that just takes care of everything.  It can take a small
> amount of learning and planning to wind up with a solution that is
> optimum for you.
>
>
>
>

Well , I've had the mill 14 years now , I'm in no rush to do the
conversion .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t59o47$kn6$2@gioia.aioe.org...

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know a VFD and a 3 phase motor is not a
magic bullet that just takes care of everything. It can take a small
amount of learning and planning to wind up with a solution that is
optimum for you.

---------------------------

Do you think a VFD is useful on a belt drive machine? I converted my lathe
and surface grinder from 3 phase to single phase, and kept the original
motors.

Could a VFD perhaps find a speed that eliminates chatter with a parting or
forming tool, or is there a good reason to run a back-geared lathe below
55RPM? I can't instantly reverse the lathe due to its threaded spindle and
already thread up to a shoulder with the belt clutch.

A factory option I don't have was a two-speed motor that gave a low speeds
of 42 and 27 RPM on this 10" lathe.

On 5/9/2022 7:31 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t59o47$kn6$2@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> Anyway, I just wanted to let you know a VFD and a 3 phase motor is not a
> magic bullet that just takes care of everything.  It can take a small
> amount of learning and planning to wind up with a solution that is
> optimum for you.
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Do you think a VFD is useful on a belt drive machine? I converted my
> lathe and surface grinder from 3 phase to single phase, and kept the
> original motors.
>
> Could a VFD perhaps find a speed that eliminates chatter with a parting
> or forming tool, or is there a good reason to run a back-geared lathe
> below 55RPM? I can't instantly reverse the lathe due to its threaded
> spindle and already thread up to a shoulder with the belt clutch.
>
> A factory option I don't have was a two-speed motor that gave a low
> speeds of 42 and 27 RPM on this 10" lathe.
>

I have to think about that.

Parting is tricky. I've found geometry and rigidity are a big deal with
parting. Of course feed rate and RPM are a big deal two.

It might have some benefit if only for being able to adjust rpm on the
fly to stay closer to the right surface speed.

Overall I have to think about it.

There are lots of reasons to consider your motor and voltage source.

One reason that motivates people is cost. Generally a single VFD is
cheaper than a new motor or an RPC. For multiple machines an RPC can be
cheaper than multiple new motors.

On my high rpm machines its the easiest way to generate 400hz

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/9/2022 8:08 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/9/2022 7:31 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t59o47$kn6$2@gioia.aioe.org...
>>
>> Anyway, I just wanted to let you know a VFD and a 3 phase motor is not a
>> magic bullet that just takes care of everything.  It can take a small
>> amount of learning and planning to wind up with a solution that is
>> optimum for you.
>>
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> Do you think a VFD is useful on a belt drive machine? I converted my
>> lathe and surface grinder from 3 phase to single phase, and kept the
>> original motors.
>>
>> Could a VFD perhaps find a speed that eliminates chatter with a
>> parting or forming tool, or is there a good reason to run a
>> back-geared lathe below 55RPM? I can't instantly reverse the lathe due
>> to its threaded spindle and already thread up to a shoulder with the
>> belt clutch.
>>
>> A factory option I don't have was a two-speed motor that gave a low
>> speeds of 42 and 27 RPM on this 10" lathe.
>>
>
> I have to think about that.
>
> Parting is tricky.  I've found geometry and rigidity are a big deal with
> parting.  Of course feed rate and RPM are a big deal two.
>
> It might have some benefit if only for being able to adjust rpm on the
> fly to stay closer to the right surface speed.
>
> Overall I have to think about it.
>
> There are lots of reasons to consider your motor and voltage source.
>
> One reason that motivates people is cost.  Generally a single VFD is
> cheaper than a new motor or an RPC.  For multiple machines an RPC can be
> cheaper than multiple new motors.
>
> On my high rpm machines its the easiest way to generate 400hz
>

If you do not thread often with the compound you may find replacing it
with a solid block of steel may help with parting.

Another is placing a jack under the parting tool.

Probably number one first thing to try if parting is a problem is
snugging up all your gibbs so they "just" move easily when properly
lubricated.

Doesn't hurt to lock the carriage in place either. I do that for harder
parting and facing. A thin blade will still flex and walk if its not
well supported and is ground improperly, but it eliminates carriage
movement from cutting forces.

There are other tricks, but I really have no experience with them. One
is a flexure style parting tool holder. It seems counter intuitive to
me, but they used to be a commercial tool used on lighter lathes for
parting. Winky's Workshop did a video on it not that long ago. I
believe he made his own. I don't recall having watched the video, but
there was a conversation about it over on Home Shop Machinist.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I don't sit around watching videos all day. I've got a Fire stick on
the big screen TV, and I put YouTube videos on subjects I'm interested
in on the big screen while I have my morning coffee and take care of
morning chores before heading out to the shop. Makes great background
noise, and quite often I learn something.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Mon, 9 May 2022 10:19:16 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>On 5/9/2022 8:08 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 5/9/2022 7:31 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t59o47$kn6$2@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> Anyway, I just wanted to let you know a VFD and a 3 phase motor is not a
>>> magic bullet that just takes care of everything.  It can take a small
>>> amount of learning and planning to wind up with a solution that is
>>> optimum for you.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------
>>>
>>> Do you think a VFD is useful on a belt drive machine? I converted my
>>> lathe and surface grinder from 3 phase to single phase, and kept the
>>> original motors.
>>>
>>> Could a VFD perhaps find a speed that eliminates chatter with a
>>> parting or forming tool, or is there a good reason to run a
>>> back-geared lathe below 55RPM? I can't instantly reverse the lathe due
>>> to its threaded spindle and already thread up to a shoulder with the
>>> belt clutch.
>>>
>>> A factory option I don't have was a two-speed motor that gave a low
>>> speeds of 42 and 27 RPM on this 10" lathe.
>>>
>>
>> I have to think about that.
>>
>> Parting is tricky.  I've found geometry and rigidity are a big deal with
>> parting.  Of course feed rate and RPM are a big deal two.
>>
>> It might have some benefit if only for being able to adjust rpm on the
>> fly to stay closer to the right surface speed.
>>
>> Overall I have to think about it.
>>
>> There are lots of reasons to consider your motor and voltage source.
>>
>> One reason that motivates people is cost.  Generally a single VFD is
>> cheaper than a new motor or an RPC.  For multiple machines an RPC can be
>> cheaper than multiple new motors.
>>
>> On my high rpm machines its the easiest way to generate 400hz
>>
>
>
>If you do not thread often with the compound you may find replacing it
>with a solid block of steel may help with parting.
>
>Another is placing a jack under the parting tool.
>
>Probably number one first thing to try if parting is a problem is
>snugging up all your gibbs so they "just" move easily when properly
>lubricated.
>
>Doesn't hurt to lock the carriage in place either. I do that for harder
>parting and facing. A thin blade will still flex and walk if its not
>well supported and is ground improperly, but it eliminates carriage
>movement from cutting forces.
>
>There are other tricks, but I really have no experience with them. One
>is a flexure style parting tool holder. It seems counter intuitive to
>me, but they used to be a commercial tool used on lighter lathes for
>parting. Winky's Workshop did a video on it not that long ago. I
>believe he made his own. I don't recall having watched the video, but
>there was a conversation about it over on Home Shop Machinist.

It's called a "spring tool" or "gooseneck tool".

OX Tool made a video on this. His explanation is exactly right. If
you make a holder that looks like his version, and it doesn't
eliminate chatter, make the round hole in the top larger and try
again.

..<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KETVR9qtEmY>

Turns out that spring tools were common in the 1890s, for use on
shapers and planers. The main problem then being solved is
cutting-edge damage due to hard inclusions in the steel or cast iron
of the day - the cutting tool deflected instead of being damaged, and
so simply resumed cutting, not needing to be reground.

Later, spring tools were found to be useful for threading and parting
on the floppy lathes of that day, reducing or eliminating chatter.

The original round gooseneck pattern allowed lateral deflection,
useful for evading hard inclusions, but the sideways motion yielded
drunken threads and parting problems. There were various solutions,
but the simplest solution is simply to make the spring neck
rectangular, so the holder is stiffer laterally than radially
(parallel to the long dimension of the holder).

There are very many patents. Here are some. To get copies, enter
into Google Advanced Patents, proceeding the number by "US" and
dropping the commas and semicolons.

US Pats 1,146,546; 2,242,033

Joe Gwinn

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t5biel$90c$1@gioia.aioe.org...

If you do not thread often with the compound you may find replacing it
with a solid block of steel may help with parting.

Another is placing a jack under the parting tool.

Probably number one first thing to try if parting is a problem is
snugging up all your gibbs so they "just" move easily when properly
lubricated.

-------------------

Parting isn't a problem, especially after I surface-ground the worn bottom
of the compound slide so I could adjust the gibs closer. I mentioned it as
an example of an operation that chatters if my lathe's speed is too high.

On 5/9/2022 2:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t5biel$90c$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> If you do not thread often with the compound you may find replacing it
> with a solid block of steel may help with parting.
>
> Another is placing a jack under the parting tool.
>
> Probably number one first thing to try if parting is a problem is
> snugging up all your gibbs so they "just" move easily when properly
> lubricated.
>
> -------------------
>
> Parting isn't a problem, especially after I surface-ground the worn
> bottom of the compound slide so I could adjust the gibs closer. I
> mentioned it as an example of an operation that chatters if my lathe's
> speed is too high.
>

Maybe, but I can do some amazingly aggressive fast parting if the tool
is up to it. I think that a limp loose machine, bad grind, and poor
tool position are more likely to chatter than being a little off on
speed. I'm not saying speed can't be a factor. Just that there are
things one can do to increase the range at which it works ok before
doing a motor swap.

In your case you made your machine less limp and sloppy.

.... and of course its all just my opinion. I'm not a master machine
builder.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 09/05/2022 23:11, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/9/2022 2:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t5biel$90c$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>
>> If you do not thread often with the compound you may find replacing it
>> with a solid block of steel may help with parting.
>>
>> Another is placing a jack under the parting tool.
>>
>> Probably number one first thing to try if parting is a problem is
>> snugging up all your gibbs so they "just" move easily when properly
>> lubricated.
>>
>> -------------------
>>
>> Parting isn't a problem, especially after I surface-ground the worn
>> bottom of the compound slide so I could adjust the gibs closer. I
>> mentioned it as an example of an operation that chatters if my
>> lathe's speed is too high.
>>
>
>
> Maybe, but I can do some amazingly aggressive fast parting if the tool
> is up to it.  I think that a limp loose machine, bad grind, and poor
> tool position are more likely to chatter than being a little off on
> speed.  I'm not saying speed can't be a factor. Just that there are
> things one can do to increase the range at which it works ok before
> doing a motor swap.
>
> In your case you made your machine less limp and sloppy.
>
> ... and of course its all just my opinion.  I'm not a master machine
> builder.
>
When I was first taught to part on an old Southbend in metal shop class
I was taught to use a low speed and that worked fine but the tutor
didn't explain why. Later in a machining class for students potentially
intending to do it for a living and taught by a time served and still
practising machinist I asked about what surface speed to use and he said
it was a cutting operation like any other so to use the recommend
surface speed if the lathe was up to it and the one I was using
certainly was, no problems parting at the same speed as turning. These
days almost all my parting is done with as insert parting blade on my
Harrison M300 which is a 13x40 and I don't bother to slow it down, on a
less rigid machine I would slow it down most likely.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t5c3is$k6q$1@dont-email.me...

Maybe, but I can do some amazingly aggressive fast parting if the tool
is up to it. I think that a limp loose machine, bad grind, and poor
tool position are more likely to chatter than being a little off on
speed. I'm not saying speed can't be a factor. Just that there are
things one can do to increase the range at which it works ok before
doing a motor swap.

In your case you made your machine less limp and sloppy.

.... and of course its all just my opinion. I'm not a master machine
builder.

-------------------

I bought the "Machine Tool Reconditioning" book, a surface plate, 0.0001"
indicator, straight edge and cylinder square. So far I've risked
improving/damaging only the ways of the AA lathe and the lower surface of
the SB's compound. Maybe some day I'll take on the others. I've learned
their limitations and design around them.

The book was valuable to fit the warped heatsink of a thermoelectric module
controller to a spreader plate, on the space comm laser project. The
heatsink wasn't thick enough to flycut flat. I figured that quietly fixing
the problem myself was better than telling the project manager he chose and
bought deficient equipment, after he had proudly told me what a good deal he
got on it.

My shop let me assume all control over the fabrication of most projects, so
that I was only rarely caught between an electrical and a mechanical
engineer who didn't understand each other's field.