On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.

I do that in sewing a lot. Sometimes I can sew it together, and then
cut it to length.

Or at least pin it for sewing. These "exact length" things are
usually circles -- for example, the neck hole I'm in the midst of
binding.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 20:49:25 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
><timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
>
>I do that in sewing a lot. Sometimes I can sew it together, and then
>cut it to length.
>
>Or at least pin it for sewing. These "exact length" things are
>usually circles -- for example, the neck hole I'm in the midst of
>binding.

When the Air Force sent me off on one of my overseas jaunts I left my
wife with my parents. No kids and she couldn't drive, seemed logical.
When I got back after some months my wife and mother weren't speaking
to each other. It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/25/2022 8:03 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 20:49:25 -0400, Joy Beeson
> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
>> <timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
>>
>> I do that in sewing a lot. Sometimes I can sew it together, and then
>> cut it to length.
>>
>> Or at least pin it for sewing. These "exact length" things are
>> usually circles -- for example, the neck hole I'm in the midst of
>> binding.
>
> When the Air Force sent me off on one of my overseas jaunts I left my
> wife with my parents. No kids and she couldn't drive, seemed logical.
> When I got back after some months my wife and mother weren't speaking
> to each other. It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>

A fair basis for war, regicide, revolution and more:
https://libquotes.com/jonathan-swift/quote/lbu3m2o

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:06:52 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
> > >> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
> > >> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
> > >> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
> > >> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
> > >> >
> > >> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
> > >> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
> > >> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
> > >> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
> > >> >
> > >> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
> > >> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
> > >> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
> > >> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
> > >> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
> > >> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
> > >> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
> > >> >unique but not too unique.
> > >> >
> > >> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> > >> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> > >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> > >> clothes?
> > >> --
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> John B.
> > > What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
> > > men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
> > > blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
> > > didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
> > > grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
> > > wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
> > > picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
> > > 1920:
> > >
> > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
> > We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
> > David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
> > could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
> > cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
> > done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
> > darning and repair.
> >
> > Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
> > cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
> > cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
> >
> > Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
> > investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.
> Because people made so little money this was not style per se but clothing to keep you alive through the winters in Europe or the Eastern US Wearing a frock coat wasn't so much style as flaunting wealth which then became style. My grandfather wore suits which meant a shirt, pants and a jacket. Being in California he had no need nor money for anything else. And he only had the one suit and he was buried in it.
>
> People don't seem to appreciate just how rich people today are. And they are all filled to the neck with greed for the money of someone else - College Tuition "forgiveness" I should pay for their tuition.

Tommy Tommy Tommy. YOU DID PAY for their education. YOU PAID for several of the house members of California. They took your money from you Tommy. Tommy, they stuck their whole arm up your backside and wiggled their fingers around.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/column-republicans-attacking-student-loan-173955648.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-critics-154740667.html

And Tommy boy, why weren't you screaming and jumping up and down shouting when Trump forgave the loans of the Republican house members? Federal government money, your taxes, was used for this huge subsidy.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/white-house-trolls-gop-critics-001000875.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-calls-greene-other-230808018.html

> The four stepchildren have all paid for their own tuition including the son and second daughter who are both working on their PhD's. The boy as an aerospace engineer and the daughter in some sort of medical field. The other two have become successful with barely a bachelors.

I paid for most of my college tuition too. First year I was subsidized. But after that I paid for it all. Including living expenses of course. Scholarships and working.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:19:28 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:09:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> > On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >> > >>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >> > >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >> > >> clothes?
> >> > >
> >> > > Well, at least their nationality!
> >> > >
> >> > > - Frank Krygowski
> >> > >
> >> > I can't.
> >> >
> >> > https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
> >> >
> >> > https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
> >> >
> >> > https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
> >> >
> >> > https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg
> >> Imagine for just one second that Slow Johnny believes that you can snap your fingers and command people what style they should like or wear. The sheer ignorance of people like him is simply too much.
> >
> >Yet we have Marjorie saying the USA is a Christian Nationalist country. And many of her political party agreeing. So its OK to tell people exactly which religion they must follow. But not OK to tell people which clothes they should wear? Tommy, do you know that some, many, schools, private AND public, which tell the students what clothes are acceptable to wear to school? Heck, when I attended school there were rules about which clothes were acceptable at school. 40 years ago.
> One of my ploys to avoid school was to take my shoes off, normal
> attire for kids in the summers out in the country, and arrive at
> school barefooted whereupon the teacher would send me home. I thought
> I was being quite innovative until the teacher sent a letter to my
> mother saying something about, "if you can't afford shoes for your
> children...." which ended with me in one of those, "You just wait
> 'till your father gets home!" situations

I can just imagine your punishment for that. Making your mother think the school teacher thought she was poor because her child did not have shoes. There are some things people think about you and you can just say who cares.. But thinking you are too poor to afford shoes for your child? That is in a different category.

> Ah well, as Robby Burns said, "The best laid schemes o’ mice an’ men.
> Gang aft a-gley.”
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 20:10:43 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 8/25/2022 8:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 20:49:25 -0400, Joy Beeson
>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
>>> <timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
>>>
>>> I do that in sewing a lot. Sometimes I can sew it together, and then
>>> cut it to length.
>>>
>>> Or at least pin it for sewing. These "exact length" things are
>>> usually circles -- for example, the neck hole I'm in the midst of
>>> binding.
>>
>> When the Air Force sent me off on one of my overseas jaunts I left my
>> wife with my parents. No kids and she couldn't drive, seemed logical.
>> When I got back after some months my wife and mother weren't speaking
>> to each other. It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>>
>
>A fair basis for war, regicide, revolution and more:
>https://libquotes.com/jonathan-swift/quote/lbu3m2o

And, as logical as a great many other decrees.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:44:35 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:19:28 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:09:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> > On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> > > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>> >> > >>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> >> > >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> >> > >> clothes?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Well, at least their nationality!
>> >> > >
>> >> > > - Frank Krygowski
>> >> > >
>> >> > I can't.
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
>> >> >
>> >> > https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
>> >> >
>> >> > https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> > https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg
>> >> Imagine for just one second that Slow Johnny believes that you can snap your fingers and command people what style they should like or wear. The sheer ignorance of people like him is simply too much.
>> >
>> >Yet we have Marjorie saying the USA is a Christian Nationalist country. And many of her political party agreeing. So its OK to tell people exactly which religion they must follow. But not OK to tell people which clothes they should wear? Tommy, do you know that some, many, schools, private AND public, which tell the students what clothes are acceptable to wear to school? Heck, when I attended school there were rules about which clothes were acceptable at school. 40 years ago.
>> One of my ploys to avoid school was to take my shoes off, normal
>> attire for kids in the summers out in the country, and arrive at
>> school barefooted whereupon the teacher would send me home. I thought
>> I was being quite innovative until the teacher sent a letter to my
>> mother saying something about, "if you can't afford shoes for your
>> children...." which ended with me in one of those, "You just wait
>> 'till your father gets home!" situations
>
>I can just imagine your punishment for that. Making your mother think the school teacher thought she was poor because her child did not have shoes. There are some things people think about you and you can just say who cares. But thinking you are too poor to afford shoes for your child? That is in a different category.
>

Remember, this was back in the days when it was shameful to have to
accept charity. I remember one family in town that were, "on the Town"
as it was termed then, and we were cautioned not to play with "those
kids".

And, yes I know that an amazing percentage of Modern Americans are "on
the Dole" to some extent, but in those days a man that didn't work to
support his family was considered about as low as it was possible for
a human to be.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:53:22 -0400, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>>>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>>>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>>>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>>>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>>>> >
>>>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>>>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>>>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>>>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>>>> >
>>>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>>>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>>>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>>>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>>>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>>>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>>>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>>>> >unique but not too unique.
>>>> >
>>>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>>> clothes?
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>>> What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
>>> men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
>>> blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
>>> didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
>>> grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
>>> wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
>>> picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
>>> 1920:
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
>>
>>We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
>>David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
>>could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
>>cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
>>done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
>>darning and repair.
>>
>>Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
>>cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
>>cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
>>
>>Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
>>investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.
>
> You don't have to go all that way back in time. My mother used to knit
> sweaters for the family and after "us kids were in school" she worked
> as a 4H Club Agent and one of the thing that 4H girls learned was how
> to make clothes, cooking and other womanly practices.

Imagine if she had to spin all the yarn she used by hand, from wool.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:02:05 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>
>> > On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>> >>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> >>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> >>> clothes?
>> >>
>> >> Well, at least their nationality!
>> >>
>> >> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>
>> >
>> > I can't.
>> >
>> > https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
>> >
>> > https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
>> I note the distinctive Sillitoe Tartan caps
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sillitoe_tartan), which makes me think
>> this one is in a country at least formerly dominated by Merry Old.
>> Still says "two tone" to me.
>> > https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
>> >
>> > https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg
>
> As you can see, Slow Johnny thinks that you can order people to wear
> something as if it were a uniform. "Let's bring back" LET US? who is
> us johnny?
>
> The case of Sillitoe is precisely that - a uniform so that you can recogniz4e emergency services.

Yes, but the colors, and whether it's used at all, depend on the country.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 22:13:23 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:53:22 -0400, Radey Shouman
>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>>>>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>>>>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>>>>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>>>>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>>>>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>>>>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>>>>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>>>>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>>>>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>>>>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>>>>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>>>>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>>>>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>>>>> >unique but not too unique.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>>>> clothes?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> John B.
>>>> What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
>>>> men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
>>>> blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
>>>> didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
>>>> grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
>>>> wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
>>>> picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
>>>> 1920:
>>>>
>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
>>>
>>>We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
>>>David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
>>>could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
>>>cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
>>>done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
>>>darning and repair.
>>>
>>>Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
>>>cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
>>>cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
>>>
>>>Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
>>>investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.
>>
>> You don't have to go all that way back in time. My mother used to knit
>> sweaters for the family and after "us kids were in school" she worked
>> as a 4H Club Agent and one of the thing that 4H girls learned was how
>> to make clothes, cooking and other womanly practices.
>
>Imagine if she had to spin all the yarn she used by hand, from wool.

My grandmother had a spinning wheel although I don't know whether she
ever used it. But I do remember my mother telling me how one worked so
perhaps she had used it in her youth.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)

Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.

I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:43:32 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)

>Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.
>I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.

I use latex glue.
<https://www.tearmender.com>
<https://www.tearmender.com/tear-mender-instant-fabric-adhesive-2-oz-bottle-tm--1--ea>
A tiny dot will hold the fabric in place. The catch is that you have
to wait 3 minutes for the glue to dry.

Others:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=latex+clothing+glue>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:56:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:43:32 -0400, Joy Beeson
><jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>
>>Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.
>>I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.
>
>I use latex glue.
><https://www.tearmender.com>
><https://www.tearmender.com/tear-mender-instant-fabric-adhesive-2-oz-bottle-tm--1--ea>
>A tiny dot will hold the fabric in place. The catch is that you have
>to wait 3 minutes for the glue to dry.
>
>Others:
><https://www.google.com/search?q=latex+clothing+glue>

Gee, this stuff my wife is sewing is about US$40 - about 4 days salary
here - a yard and you want to sprinkle glue on it?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:49:28 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
> <timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
> I do that in sewing a lot. Sometimes I can sew it together, and then
> cut it to length.
>
> Or at least pin it for sewing. These "exact length" things are
> usually circles -- for example, the neck hole I'm in the midst of
> binding.
>
> --
> Joy Beeson
> joy beeson at centurylink dot net
> http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

I might be remembering it wrong, I think sometimes he said nail it in place, cut off the extra. Ever watch a roofer? They don't worry about a straight edge on the side, they nail all the shingles then come by with a circular saw and trim it straight.

Years ago I did some sewing of fabric for kites. The easiest way for me was to use masking tape (rather than pins or basting), sew over it, pull the tape off. A seamstress would probably cringe but I couldn't find any downside.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 13:03:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:56:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:43:32 -0400, Joy Beeson
>><jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>>>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>>>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>>
>>>Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.
>>>I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.
>>
>>I use latex glue.
>><https://www.tearmender.com>
>><https://www.tearmender.com/tear-mender-instant-fabric-adhesive-2-oz-bottle-tm--1--ea>
>>A tiny dot will hold the fabric in place. The catch is that you have
>>to wait 3 minutes for the glue to dry.
>>
>>Others:
>><https://www.google.com/search?q=latex+clothing+glue>

>Gee, this stuff my wife is sewing is about US$40 - about 4 days salary
>here - a yard and you want to sprinkle glue on it?

Maybe. Sewing is better because she can easily fix mistakes with a
seam ripper. Ask her what she thinks about the idea and maybe buy her
a small bottle to try.

I apply the glue with a tooth pick or plastic wedge. For minor sewing
jobs and repairs, a 2oz (60ml) bottle lasts me about 2 years. Oddly,
most of my use of glue is to repair other peoples clothes and things.
I've thought about using glue to assemble a sewing project, but have
never found the need. However, there are those who claim to have done
it:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sewing+with+glue>

One repair, where I prefer glue, is for fixing my work cloths where
I've burned a small hole in the fabric. Plugging holes is a bit
difficult and unsightly with hand or machine sewing. However, with a
tiny patch of material as backing, glue is quick, easy, and permanent.
Between the welding and chemistry experiments, I've had considerable
experience.

For large areas, there are products that come in a spray can:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=basting+spray&tbm=isch>
Two friends, both members of a local quilting club, use spray glue for
easier layout. I've never tried the spray and can easily imagine the
mess I might make.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 22:13:23 -0400, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:53:22 -0400, Radey Shouman
>>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>>>>>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>>>>>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>>>>>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>>>>>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>>>>>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>>>>>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>>>>>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>>>>>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>>>>>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>>>>>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>>>>>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>>>>>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>>>>>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>>>>>> >unique but not too unique.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>>>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>>>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>>>>> clothes?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John B.
>>>>> What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
>>>>> men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
>>>>> blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
>>>>> didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
>>>>> grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
>>>>> wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
>>>>> picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
>>>>> 1920:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
>>>>
>>>>We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
>>>>David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
>>>>could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
>>>>cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
>>>>done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
>>>>darning and repair.
>>>>
>>>>Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
>>>>cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
>>>>cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
>>>>
>>>>Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
>>>>investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.
>>>
>>> You don't have to go all that way back in time. My mother used to knit
>>> sweaters for the family and after "us kids were in school" she worked
>>> as a 4H Club Agent and one of the thing that 4H girls learned was how
>>> to make clothes, cooking and other womanly practices.
>>
>>Imagine if she had to spin all the yarn she used by hand, from wool.
>
> My grandmother had a spinning wheel although I don't know whether she
> ever used it. But I do remember my mother telling me how one worked so
> perhaps she had used it in her youth.

Spinning wheels were modern high technology, and not in use for very
long. For most of history spinning was done with a hand spindle. Women
of all stations, from whores to princesses, in almost all cultures were
expected to spend any spare moments spinning fiber into thread. The
"distaff side" were literally the side that did the spinning. Other
labor, from shearing, fullering, and carding to weaving and sewing, were
not large by comparison.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 07:40:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 13:03:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:56:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:43:32 -0400, Joy Beeson
>>><jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>>>>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>>>>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>>>
>>>>Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.
>>>>I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.
>>>
>>>I use latex glue.
>>><https://www.tearmender.com>
>>><https://www.tearmender.com/tear-mender-instant-fabric-adhesive-2-oz-bottle-tm--1--ea>
>>>A tiny dot will hold the fabric in place. The catch is that you have
>>>to wait 3 minutes for the glue to dry.
>>>
>>>Others:
>>><https://www.google.com/search?q=latex+clothing+glue>
>
>>Gee, this stuff my wife is sewing is about US$40 - about 4 days salary
>>here - a yard and you want to sprinkle glue on it?
>
>Maybe. Sewing is better because she can easily fix mistakes with a
>seam ripper. Ask her what she thinks about the idea and maybe buy her
>a small bottle to try.

"Fix mistakes" I take it that you are not marries. If you were you'd
know that no wife ever, in the history of mankind, made a mistake.
(Or admitted to have made a mistake :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 13:20:32 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 22:13:23 -0400, Radey Shouman
>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:53:22 -0400, Radey Shouman
>>>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>>>>>>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>>>>>>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>>>>>>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>>>>>>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>>>>>>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>>>>>>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>>>>>>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>>>>>>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>>>>>>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>>>>>>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>>>>>>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>>>>>>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>>>>>>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>>>>>>> >unique but not too unique.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>>>>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>>>>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>>>>>> clothes?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>> What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
>>>>>> men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
>>>>>> blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
>>>>>> didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
>>>>>> grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
>>>>>> wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
>>>>>> picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
>>>>>> 1920:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
>>>>>
>>>>>We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
>>>>>David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
>>>>>could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
>>>>>cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
>>>>>done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
>>>>>darning and repair.
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
>>>>>cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
>>>>>cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
>>>>>investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.
>>>>
>>>> You don't have to go all that way back in time. My mother used to knit
>>>> sweaters for the family and after "us kids were in school" she worked
>>>> as a 4H Club Agent and one of the thing that 4H girls learned was how
>>>> to make clothes, cooking and other womanly practices.
>>>
>>>Imagine if she had to spin all the yarn she used by hand, from wool.
>>
>> My grandmother had a spinning wheel although I don't know whether she
>> ever used it. But I do remember my mother telling me how one worked so
>> perhaps she had used it in her youth.
>
>Spinning wheels were modern high technology, and not in use for very
>long. For most of history spinning was done with a hand spindle. Women
>of all stations, from whores to princesses, in almost all cultures were
>expected to spend any spare moments spinning fiber into thread. The
>"distaff side" were literally the side that did the spinning. Other
>labor, from shearing, fullering, and carding to weaving and sewing, were
>not large by comparison.
>

From what I read spinning with a hand spindle was time consuming, I
read that it took 4 "Spinners" to support one "Weaver", but it was,
would one say, "low energy work" and thus could easily be performed by
women in their spare time, while weaving was, apparently, a full time
job, in the Western World, and thus mainly a "man's work". Although,
today, the hand woven "Thai Silk" still made in N.E. Thailand is woven
by women.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 06:48:00 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 07:40:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 13:03:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:56:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:43:32 -0400, Joy Beeson
>>>><jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>>>>>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>>>>>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>>>>
>>>>>Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.
>>>>>I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.
>>>>
>>>>I use latex glue.
>>>><https://www.tearmender.com>
>>>><https://www.tearmender.com/tear-mender-instant-fabric-adhesive-2-oz-bottle-tm--1--ea>
>>>>A tiny dot will hold the fabric in place. The catch is that you have
>>>>to wait 3 minutes for the glue to dry.
>>>>
>>>>Others:
>>>><https://www.google.com/search?q=latex+clothing+glue>
>>
>>>Gee, this stuff my wife is sewing is about US$40 - about 4 days salary
>>>here - a yard and you want to sprinkle glue on it?
>>
>>Maybe. Sewing is better because she can easily fix mistakes with a
>>seam ripper. Ask her what she thinks about the idea and maybe buy her
>>a small bottle to try.

>"Fix mistakes" I take it that you are not marries. If you were you'd
>know that no wife ever, in the history of mankind, made a mistake.
>(Or admitted to have made a mistake :-)

Correct. I'm not married. The difference between not making a
mistake and making a mistake is dependent on who knows about it. If
she makes a mistake, but nobody knows (or pretends not to know), it's
not a mistake. Her reputation and image of perfection remains intact.
However, if you want to quietly determine the truth, just look for a
seam ripper nearby. That's prima fascia evidence that something went
wrong. I suggest you pretend not to notice the seam ripper.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=seam+ripper&tbm=isch>
Full disclosure and admission of guilt. I have at least 4 seam
rippers and probably more if I can find where they're hiding.

If she's into knitting, the weapon of choice is called a "knit picker"
(not to be confused with the debaters of minutiae often found in RBT):
<https://www.google.com/search?q=knit+picker&hl=en&tbm=isch>
I use one when I'm hand sewing and accidentally create a snag or
improperly placed knot.

I've been in the computah repair business long enough to have learned
that it (literally) doesn't pay to blame the customer for their
mistakes, even when the culprit is obvious. Best to say that I don't
know what caused the problem rather than blame the person who is going
to sign the check that supports my decadent and lavish lifestyle.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:42:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 06:48:00 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 07:40:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 13:03:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:56:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:43:32 -0400, Joy Beeson
>>>>><jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:03:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems that there was a difference of opinion on
>>>>>>> which was the best way to do things. One said pin together and sew and
>>>>>>> the other said baste together and sew.(:-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sometimes I pin, sometimes I baste, sometimes I do both.
>>>>>>I've been known to baste in creases instead of pressing them.
>>>>>
>>>>>I use latex glue.
>>>>><https://www.tearmender.com>
>>>>><https://www.tearmender.com/tear-mender-instant-fabric-adhesive-2-oz-bottle-tm--1--ea>
>>>>>A tiny dot will hold the fabric in place. The catch is that you have
>>>>>to wait 3 minutes for the glue to dry.
>>>>>
>>>>>Others:
>>>>><https://www.google.com/search?q=latex+clothing+glue>
>>>
>>>>Gee, this stuff my wife is sewing is about US$40 - about 4 days salary
>>>>here - a yard and you want to sprinkle glue on it?
>>>
>>>Maybe. Sewing is better because she can easily fix mistakes with a
>>>seam ripper. Ask her what she thinks about the idea and maybe buy her
>>>a small bottle to try.
>
>>"Fix mistakes" I take it that you are not marries. If you were you'd
>>know that no wife ever, in the history of mankind, made a mistake.
>>(Or admitted to have made a mistake :-)
>
>Correct. I'm not married. The difference between not making a
>mistake and making a mistake is dependent on who knows about it. If
>she makes a mistake, but nobody knows (or pretends not to know), it's
>not a mistake. Her reputation and image of perfection remains intact.
>However, if you want to quietly determine the truth, just look for a
>seam ripper nearby. That's prima fascia evidence that something went
>wrong. I suggest you pretend not to notice the seam ripper.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=seam+ripper&tbm=isch>
>Full disclosure and admission of guilt. I have at least 4 seam
>rippers and probably more if I can find where they're hiding.
>
>If she's into knitting, the weapon of choice is called a "knit picker"
>(not to be confused with the debaters of minutiae often found in RBT):
><https://www.google.com/search?q=knit+picker&hl=en&tbm=isch>
>I use one when I'm hand sewing and accidentally create a snag or
>improperly placed knot.

An astonishing invention..... now look up "Crochet Hook. Which seems
to date back to at least the 11th century (:-)

>
>I've been in the computah repair business long enough to have learned
>that it (literally) doesn't pay to blame the customer for their
>mistakes, even when the culprit is obvious. Best to say that I don't
>know what caused the problem rather than blame the person who is going
>to sign the check that supports my decadent and lavish lifestyle.

No, one never tells the bloke paying the bills he is wrong.... Which
has, in the past led me to some pretty complex explanations of why one
"doesn't do that".
--
Cheers,

John B.

"That was a jacket or suit coat. A frock coat was characterized by being more than knee length."

You're being a bit too argumentative, Tom. Do you think the eminent bicycle racer George Wyman, for example (who was also, I think, the first person to cross the U.S. by motorized vehicle) would concern himself over the exact name or length of the jacket, as long as it was a gentleman's coat? Wyman would never be seen without his:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15-IzEk_6A_AozXSzFj92UUHL5BMqbusK/view?usp=sharing

On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 5:33:53 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> "That was a jacket or suit coat. A frock coat was characterized by being more than knee length."
>
> You're being a bit too argumentative, Tom. Do you think the eminent bicycle racer George Wyman, for example (who was also, I think, the first person to cross the U.S. by motorized vehicle) would concern himself over the exact name or length of the jacket, as long as it was a gentleman's coat? Wyman would never be seen without his:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15-IzEk_6A_AozXSzFj92UUHL5BMqbusK/view?usp=sharing

Bill. those are simply jackets. Frock coats were really an east coast thing anyway. It gets cold back there. They didn't even wear them in Washington State if memory serves. In the Air Force I was the better part of three years in Moses Lake and it gets damned cold out there but they didn't wear frock coats which was a style item I suppose and all of the pictures in all of the bars in the towns of Moses Lake and Ephrata didn't show any such thing.. There you wore an insulated coat with a hood. And you usually wore a watch cap under that hood.