Just barely over a year ago I bought a 5HP Ingersol Rand compressor for
my shop to replace the 3.7HP Lowes Kobalt compressor that had supplied
the shop's air for just over 4 years previously.

I walked in the shop this morning with a plan to knock out a few jobs
and catch up a little bit. I'm modifying some work pallets to mount in
vises on the table rather than have to remove the vises to mount them to
the table. I got lucky and figured out a way to block them up in the
vises on the manual mill in the back, and then proceeded to blow the
chips off the vise surfaces.

NO AIR. I had not turned the compressor off last night as I normally
do, so I was rather surprised.

Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

Original IR warranty is only 1 year, but I bought a 2 year extended
warranty. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be one of those warranties
that are the reason I don't usually buy extended warranties.

In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell
Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air. I don't
think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two
machines at a time with it.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:11:27 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
>inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
>they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
> I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
>the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

Maybe motor starter switch. When it fell back to the starter winding
the contact didn't make. Had that happen on my 2hp 120vac once. Took it
apart... think a sharp rap or two on the end would have gotten it going
again though...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:47:09 -0400
Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:11:27 -0700
>Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
>>inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
>>they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
>> I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
>>the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.
>
>Maybe motor starter switch. When it fell back to the starter winding
>the contact didn't make. Had that happen on my 2hp 120vac once. Took it
>apart... think a sharp rap or two on the end would have gotten it going
>again though...

Actually several things it might still be per this manual page:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/502865/Ingersoll-Rand-Ts4l5.html?page=12#manual

In case your warrant doesn't take care of it...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:55:37 -0400
Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Actually several things it might still be per this manual page:
>
>https://www.manualslib.com/manual/502865/Ingersoll-Rand-Ts4l5.html?page=12#manual
>
>In case your warrant doesn't take care of it...

A better copy, maybe newer manual here:

https://www-chainsawjournal-com.webpkgcache.com/doc/-/s/www.chainsawjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/manual-Ingersoll-Rand-TS4N5-.pdf

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 4/30/2023 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

>
> In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell
> Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air.  I don't
> think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two
> machines at a time with it.
>

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Got it about 2/3 of the over to the shop, and a wheel fell off.

I guess 29 years in the Arizona heat is a bit much for those plastic
wheels.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On 4/30/2023 1:09 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:55:37 -0400
> Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Actually several things it might still be per this manual page:
>>
>> https://www.manualslib.com/manual/502865/Ingersoll-Rand-Ts4l5.html?page=12#manual
>>
>> In case your warrant doesn't take care of it...
>
> A better copy, maybe newer manual here:
>
> https://www-chainsawjournal-com.webpkgcache.com/doc/-/s/www.chainsawjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/manual-Ingersoll-Rand-TS4N5-.pdf
>

I downloaded it, but right now I'm looking for a new wheel to put on the
CH roll around.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2mgju$3l1m3$1@dont-email.me...

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:11:27 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
>inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
>they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
> I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
>the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

Maybe motor starter switch. When it fell back to the starter winding
the contact didn't make. Had that happen on my 2hp 120vac once. Took it
apart... think a sharp rap or two on the end would have gotten it going
again though...
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

----------------------

The start assembly on my 50 year old Maytag washer sometimes hangs open, but
the stalled run winding current is around 40A and would trip a breaker if I
didn't kick the motor to shake it free. I split the power cord for an
Amprobe that shows the problem immediately.

One quick fix that works often enough to be worth trying is to POWER DOWN,
turn the pulley a little by hand and power up. My father had an unguarded
belt-driven bench grinder that always need to be hot-started by hand. For
that reason alone it had a buffing wheel on one side.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 19:27:20 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>The start assembly on my 50 year old Maytag washer sometimes hangs open, but
>the stalled run winding current is around 40A and would trip a breaker if I
>didn't kick the motor to shake it free. I split the power cord for an
>Amprobe that shows the problem immediately.

It could easy be I don't remember this right or two different episodes
happened. I had a similar problem as you describe too. I do remember
checking a lot of stuff like Bob has done. One final thing I did was
while the motor was opened up I pulled a circuit board loose to peek at
the opposite side. It worked okay after that. A contact had been
exposed on the back side and I burnished that to be sure it was okay as
long as I had it opened up.

This was maybe 10 years ago, memory isn't what it used to be ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 5/1/2023 6:12 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 19:27:20 -0400
> "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> The start assembly on my 50 year old Maytag washer sometimes hangs open, but
>> the stalled run winding current is around 40A and would trip a breaker if I
>> didn't kick the motor to shake it free. I split the power cord for an
>> Amprobe that shows the problem immediately.
>
> It could easy be I don't remember this right or two different episodes
> happened. I had a similar problem as you describe too. I do remember
> checking a lot of stuff like Bob has done. One final thing I did was
> while the motor was opened up I pulled a circuit board loose to peek at
> the opposite side. It worked okay after that. A contact had been
> exposed on the back side and I burnished that to be sure it was okay as
> long as I had it opened up.
>
> This was maybe 10 years ago, memory isn't what it used to be ;-)
>
I considered a spin start, but this compressor cycles on and off half a
dozen times in a shift in the shop. I'd have to wire up a pressure
alarm (which isn't a bad idea anyway), and wander back to restart it
periodically.

I have not tried a spin start, but there is zero reaction to
electrifying the motor. No click. No hum. Nothing. Its possible
there is a simple failure, but an internal motor failure seems most
likely. Ultimately a better quality motor will probably be a better
solution.

In my searches I've found a crazy number of warranty and just out of
warranty failures reported by other customers. One guy claimed he took
one apart and found they had aluminum windings. Another claimed all
these mid size IR compressors are consumer grade junk made in India. I
have to say that's an insult to consumer grade junk. My Lowes Kobalt
compressor lasted longer than this IR, and the first failure was really
my fault.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2opc5$8qnv$1@dont-email.me...

Ohm check?

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1348810/Ingersoll-Rand-2475.html?page=19

If you are unfamiliar with Ladder Logic symbols, M in a circle is the
contacter (>10A relay) coil and the capacitor-like symbols are its Normally
Open (not energized) contacts. OL is a Normally Closed contact. The
letters/numbers beside wires are the labels at their ends.

It's called Ladder Logic because in the control section AC hot and neutral
are vertical lines and each set of contacts feeding a relay coil is a rung.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2opc5$8qnv$1@dont-email.me...
------------
Internet wisdom:

https://www.titusco.com/common-problems-with-air-compressors/#001

"Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or a
deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start when it
lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not proportional to
the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the compressor will often
fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the pressure switch and adjust
the level accordingly."

On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or
> a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start
> when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not
> proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
> compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
> pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

When the connection cover of the motor is open and leads of a meter are
connected across the incoming line power leads (L1/L2 NOT L1/N) causes
the meter to display the correct and same line voltage as reading across
the bus bars in the breaker panel one should assume that neither a
failure of the pressure switch or a disconnected power cord is likely to
be the issue.

If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that
whatever the issue it is "within" the motor. A spin start or beating on
the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not
resolve the issue in a real manner.

At this point there is a 2 year extended warranty which should be in
effect, and therefor the issue should be resolved by the warrantor.
(Maybe not a real word). At this point opening the motor further may
cause the warranty company to deny a claim. ie: Breaking the paint on
the motor case screws. Cap covers and power connection panel did not
require breaking any paint to open.

I will probably purchase a new better quality motor regardless of the
resolution offered by the warrantor. I may or may not dig into the
existing motor to determine if it has "aluminum" windings, bad start
switch, or other cause.

Ultimately though it boils down to this. IR seems to have whored out
their name and sold out their customers with what used to be a quality
mid range compressor. Multiple reported instances of motor failures
upto and including flames shooting out of them allegedly. Many failures
withing warranty, claims made that the "newer" motors (mine is newer
than the report) are better and then subsequent failures seems to back
this up.

Honestly if the price of a new Lowes Kobalt was the same as it was
fiveish years ago when I bought my last one I'd replace this Ingersol
Rand with another Kobalt. It hasn't quite doubled in five years, but
its close. The 3.7 HP 60 gallon was 499 when I bought mine, but its
jumped to 899 today. Sadly I made the mistake of repurposing the tank
instead of putting a new motor on it and keeping it as a spare. My
mistake. I made the egregious error of thinking a fine old name like
Ingersol Rand would last atleast as long as a low bid contract box store
compressor.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

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On 5/1/2023 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
>> or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
>> start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is
>> not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
>> compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
>> pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."
>
> When the connection cover of the motor is open and leads of a meter are
> connected across the incoming line power leads (L1/L2 NOT L1/N) causes
> the meter to display the correct and same line voltage as reading across
> the bus bars in the breaker panel one should assume that neither a
> failure of the pressure switch or a disconnected power cord is likely to
> be the issue.
>
> If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
> not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
> starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
> when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that
> whatever the issue it is "within" the motor.  A spin start or beating on
> the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not
> resolve the issue in a real manner.
>
> At this point there is a 2 year extended warranty which should be in
> effect, and therefor the issue should be resolved by the warrantor.
> (Maybe not a real word).  At this point opening the motor further may
> cause the warranty company to deny a claim.  ie: Breaking the paint on
> the motor case screws.  Cap covers and power connection panel did not
> require breaking any paint to open.
>
> I will probably purchase a new better quality motor regardless of the
> resolution offered by the warrantor.  I may or may not dig into the
> existing motor to determine if it has "aluminum" windings, bad start
> switch, or other cause.
>
> Ultimately though it boils down to this.  IR seems to have whored out
> their name and sold out their customers with what used to be a quality
> mid range compressor.  Multiple reported instances of motor failures
> upto and including flames shooting out of them allegedly.  Many failures
> withing warranty, claims made that the "newer" motors (mine is newer
> than the report) are better and then subsequent failures seems to back
> this up.
>
> Honestly if the price of a new Lowes Kobalt was the same as it was
> fiveish years ago when I bought my last one I'd replace this Ingersol
> Rand with another Kobalt.  It hasn't quite doubled in five years, but
> its close.  The 3.7 HP 60 gallon was 499 when I bought mine, but its
> jumped to 899 today.  Sadly I made the mistake of repurposing the tank
> instead of putting a new motor on it and keeping it as a spare.  My
> mistake.  I made the egregious error of thinking a fine old name like
> Ingersol Rand would last atleast as long as a low bid contract box store
> compressor.
>

P.S. Some 30ish years (92/93) ago I was the person who implemented (at
the initial request of a service manager at Sanborn) a warranty repair
program for several brands of air compressors at the tool store where I
was employed. I actually got started by convincing the guy at Sanborn to
warranty an out of warranty compressor due to known low usage hours.
They asked me if I would repair it saving everybody shipping costs, and
they would pay book hours for all repairs. Like my later career in
contracting I consistently did good repairs in less time then estimated.

Generally I found Rollaire to be the best manufactured compressor of the
half dozen brands I serviced officially, and the few I serviced and
repaired as not an official service center. Light industrial shops who
purchased Rollaire from us had the lowest number of warranty or out of
warranty repairs. We had them installed in places like tire stores,
fabrication shops, and machine shops. Lower usage home shops had zero
that I recall. That being said they were priced similarly to other top
names in the compressor industry.

Yesterday I received a text message (he had seen this line of posts on
Faecbook) from a buddy of mine who is a partner in a medium size farming
operation (quite huge by midwest standards). He said, "We have had
great luck with Rollaire compressors. The only issue we have had was
with Honda motor on one of our portable truck mounted compressors. We
have to rope start it now."

FYI: Of the gas engine operated compressors we sold and serviced Honda
had the lowest level of service issues of all gas motors. In generators
we found Yamaha was a close second, but I don't recall having any Yamaha
engines installed on compressors. I still have one of those old Yamaha
generators and it still runs on the first or second pull.

I guess I need to find out where I can buy a Rollaire if I really want a
decent mid size (2 stage 80 gallon) or slightly larger compressor for my
shop. A step up to a larger scroll compressor is out of my short or
medium term budget.

I never serviced Ingersol Rand.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

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On Mon, 1 May 2023 10:52:25 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
>not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
>starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
>when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that
>whatever the issue it is "within" the motor. A spin start or beating on
>the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not
>resolve the issue in a real manner.

Found some pictures I took while I had my motor apart in 2012:

https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg

Just an FYI, shows a lot of possible connection problems you can only
get to by opening it up farther...

I searched on the part number for your motor earlier. They sell for
somewhere between $1400 to $2400 new 😲

Hope you get some satisfaction with a warranty claim.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 5/1/2023 12:00 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Mon, 1 May 2023 10:52:25 -0700
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
>> not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
>> starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
>> when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that
>> whatever the issue it is "within" the motor. A spin start or beating on
>> the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not
>> resolve the issue in a real manner.
>
> Found some pictures I took while I had my motor apart in 2012:
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg
>
> Just an FYI, shows a lot of possible connection problems you can only
> get to by opening it up farther...
>
> I searched on the part number for your motor earlier. They sell for
> somewhere between $1400 to $2400 new 😲
>
> Hope you get some satisfaction with a warranty claim.
>

I found import replacements from $160 to about 240 and name brands from
250 to 699.

I certainly would not pay as much for a motor as I paid for the
compressor.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or a
> deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start when
> it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not
> proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
> compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
> pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

---------------------------

Read the quote carefully.

Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity? Recently
I've fixed two electrical problems with the wire's end termination breaking
off, which is repairable. The HF 240V spot welder had aluminum wire which I
spliced to copper with a Eurostyle terminal block and "monkey snot".

This winter a storm brought down my TV antenna, which has been up for at
least five years. I had replaced the rivets with aluminum screws and coated
the cleaned connections with GB Ox Gard and they still measure 20 milliOhms
or less.

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2p290$a2jv$1@dont-email.me...

https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg

-------------------------

How do you like PostImage?

On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
>> or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
>> start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is
>> not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
>> compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
>> pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Read the quote carefully.
>
> Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?
> Recently I've fixed two electrical problems with the wire's end
> termination breaking off, which is repairable. The HF 240V spot welder
> had aluminum wire which I spliced to copper with a Eurostyle terminal
> block and "monkey snot".
>
> This winter a storm brought down my TV antenna, which has been up for at
> least five years. I had replaced the rivets with aluminum screws and
> coated the cleaned connections with GB Ox Gard and they still measure 20
> milliOhms or less.
>

In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...

On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or a
>> deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start when
>> it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not
>> proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
>> compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
>> pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."
>
> Read the quote carefully.
>
> Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?

In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).

Bob La Londe

-------------------
The quote states:
"a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air
pressure."

That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related no-start
problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to depressurize the
compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor didn't have enough starting
torque when run off a 3KW generator. The fix was to fabricate a keep-open
cam lever that replaced the pull ring on the over-pressure relief, and open
it before starting.

I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and flat
tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.

On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
>>> or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
>>> start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure
>>> is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank,
>>> the compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on
>>> the pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."
>>
>> Read the quote carefully.
>>
>> Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?
>
> In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).
>
> Bob La Londe
>
> -------------------
> The quote states:
> "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air
> pressure."
>
> That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
> elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
> didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related
> no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to
> depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor didn't
> have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The fix was to
> fabricate a keep-open cam lever that replaced the pull ring on the
> over-pressure relief, and open it before starting.
>
> I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
> gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and
> flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.
>

Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated
pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
anything when working properly "deprimes" them. If an unloader does
fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition. Even if
they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing". It
might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
the breaker. It wouldn't do nothing at all. I have seen unloaders
fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail
eventually. Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing. It just makes
it cycle a LOT more often.

I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are
grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
LOL. Terry? Did you put him up to this. LOL.

In any case I am going to:

a) Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
b) Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way. I do have a
question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On 5/1/2023 6:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
>>>> or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
>>>> start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure
>>>> is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the
>>>> tank, the compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in
>>>> setting on the pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."
>>>
>>> Read the quote carefully.
>>>
>>> Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?
>>
>> In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).
>>
>> Bob La Londe
>>
>> -------------------
>> The quote states:
>> "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient
>> air pressure."
>>
>> That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
>> elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
>> didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related
>> no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to
>> depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor
>> didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The
>> fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that replaced the pull ring
>> on the over-pressure relief, and open it before starting.
>>
>> I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
>> gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and
>> flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.
>>
>
> Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated
> pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
> anything when working properly "deprimes" them.  If an unloader does
> fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition.  Even if
> they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing".  It
> might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
> the breaker.  It wouldn't do nothing at all.  I have seen unloaders
> fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail
> eventually.  Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing.  It just makes
> it cycle a LOT more often.
>
> I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are
> grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
> LOL.  Terry?  Did you put him up to this.  LOL.
>
> In any case I am going to:
>
> a)  Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
> b)  Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
> on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way.  I do have a
> question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.
>

US MOTORS made in Mexico. I just assumed it was an Indian or Chinese
motor.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On 5/1/2023 8:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
>>>> or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
>>>> start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure
>>>> is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the
>>>> tank, the compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in
>>>> setting on the pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."
>>>
>>> Read the quote carefully.
>>>
>>> Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?
>>
>> In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).
>>
>> Bob La Londe
>>
>> -------------------
>> The quote states:
>> "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient
>> air pressure."
>>
>> That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
>> elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
>> didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related
>> no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to
>> depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor
>> didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The
>> fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that replaced the pull ring
>> on the over-pressure relief, and open it before starting.
>>
>> I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
>> gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and
>> flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.
>>
>
> Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated
> pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
> anything when working properly "deprimes" them.  If an unloader does
> fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition.  Even if
> they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing".  It
> might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
> the breaker.  It wouldn't do nothing at all.  I have seen unloaders
> fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail
> eventually.  Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing.  It just makes
> it cycle a LOT more often.
>
> I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are
> grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
> LOL.  Terry?  Did you put him up to this.  LOL.

Not this time ... but I will say that the Grizzly motor I put on my
4x6 bandsaw a few years ago has given good service . That saw sees quite
a bit of weather , it sits barely under cover in front of the shop .

>
> In any case I am going to:
>
> a)  Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
> b)  Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
> on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way.  I do have a
> question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.
>

--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

On 5/1/2023 7:12 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 5/1/2023 6:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>> "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power
>>>>> cord or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically
>>>>> fail to start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in
>>>>> pressure is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored
>>>>> in the tank, the compressor will often fail to start. Check the
>>>>> cut-in setting on the pressure switch and adjust the level
>>>>> accordingly."
>>>>
>>>> Read the quote carefully.
>>>>
>>>> Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?
>>>
>>> In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).
>>>
>>> Bob La Londe
>>>
>>> -------------------
>>> The quote states:
>>> "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient
>>> air pressure."
>>>
>>> That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
>>> elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components
>>> certainly didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure
>>> related no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader
>>> failed to depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP
>>> motor didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW
>>> generator. The fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that
>>> replaced the pull ring on the over-pressure relief, and open it
>>> before starting.
>>>
>>> I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that
>>> the gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged
>>> carbs and flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to
>>> run their loads.
>>>
>>
>> Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally
>> aspirated pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an
>> unloader if anything when working properly "deprimes" them.  If an
>> unloader does fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open
>> condition.  Even if they failed in the closed condtion the motor would
>> not do "nothing".  It might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the
>> thermal or more likely the breaker.  It wouldn't do nothing at all.  I
>> have seen unloaders fail, but long term the check valve in the tank
>> will always fail eventually.  Again it doesn't make the motor do
>> nothing.  It just makes it cycle a LOT more often.
>>
>> I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you
>> are grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait
>> me. LOL.  Terry?  Did you put him up to this.  LOL.
>>
>> In any case I am going to:
>>
>> a)  Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
>> b)  Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
>> on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way.  I do have
>> a question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.
>>
>
>
> US MOTORS made in Mexico.  I just assumed it was an Indian or Chinese
> motor.

Looks like the IR J21C (on this compressor) is the same as a US Motors
D20C or maybe a cheepified version of it.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2ppm9$ehac$1@dont-email.me...

Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated
pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
anything when working properly "deprimes" them. If an unloader does
fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition. Even if
they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing". It
might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
the breaker. It wouldn't do nothing at all. I have seen unloaders
fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail
eventually. Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing. It just makes
it cycle a LOT more often.

I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are
grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
LOL. Terry? Did you put him up to this. LOL.

-----------------------

I wanted to see if anyone else would respond to that statement on a
compressor dealer's web page the way I did.

On Mon, 1 May 2023 18:43:10 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2p290$a2jv$1@dont-email.me...
>
>https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg
>
>-------------------------
>
>How do you like PostImage?
>

No sign-up needed, simple and seems to work. Use it for images
that don't matter to me if they circulate unattributed. Curious...
hadn't checked it recently, here is one I made in Oct, 2019:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/yyeg562q/

I see the id tag changes once the gallery is loaded...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI