A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
win taken away from natural-born women.

Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
competitions.

In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.

After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”

Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
titles nationwide.

It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/

Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
> win taken away from natural-born women.
>
> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
> decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
> competitions.
>
> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
> proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>
> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
> UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
>
> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
> openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
> titles nationwide.
>
> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
> Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
> every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>
>
> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>
Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.

In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.

Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.

At this point it’s just punching down.

Roger Merriman

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>
>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>> competitions.
>>
>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>
>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>
>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>> titles nationwide.
>>
>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>
>>
>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>
>Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>
>In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>
>Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>
>At this point it’s just punching down.
>
>Roger Merriman

See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>
>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>> competitions.
>>>
>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>
>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>
>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>> titles nationwide.
>>>
>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>
>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>
>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>
>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>
>> At this point it’s just punching down.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>

School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.

I’m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
competitive though at that point if it’s competitive even if amateur. Then
doesn’t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
more socially type stuff where it may well be.

I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
chose to but mostly didn’t!

Roger Merriman

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>
>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>> competitions.
>>>>
>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>
>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>
>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>
>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>
>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>
>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>
>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>
>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>>
>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>
>
>School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>
>I’m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>competitive though at that point if it’s competitive even if amateur. Then
>doesn’t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>
>I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>chose to but mostly didn’t!
>
>Roger Merriman

I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>
>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>
>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>
>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>
>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>
>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>
>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>>
>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>
>>
>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>
>> I’m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>> competitive though at that point if it’s competitive even if amateur. Then
>> doesn’t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>
>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>> chose to but mostly didn’t!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>
They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?

The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it’s a political
football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.

I’d personally If it’s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
actually been proposed, as the article isn’t clear on that in terms of
details.

Roger Merriman

On 6/12/2023 3:37 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
> win taken away from natural-born women.
>
> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
> decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
> competitions.
>
> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
> proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>
> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
> UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
>
> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
> openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
> titles nationwide.
>
> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
> Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
> every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>
>
> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>

Hmm. Maybe I can have a racing career yet!

I could buy a classic Harley knucklehead (all-time favorite
MC) and self identify as a bicyclist. Who's to dispute that?
Haters?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 3:44:00 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> > A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
> > category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
> > win taken away from natural-born women.
> >
> > Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
> > decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
> > competitions.
> >
> > In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
> > proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
> > his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
> >
> > After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
> > cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
> > UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
> >
> > Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
> > openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
> > titles nationwide.
> >
> > It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
> > Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
> > managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
> > every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
> > https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
> >
> >
> > Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
> > to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
> >
> > https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
> >
> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>
> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>
> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>
> At this point it’s just punching down.
>
> Roger Merriman

Roger, while I'm quite sure that you believe that the point is made - UNTIL the UCI actually acts. the point is not made. Only two years ago the UCI was going to remove all weight limits on bikes in pro races. Where did that go?

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>
>>>
>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>
>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>
>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>
>They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?

It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
in their locker rooms.

>The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it’s a political
>football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>
>I’d personally If it’s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>actually been proposed, as the article isn’t clear on that in terms of
>details.
>
>Roger Merriman

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 3:44:00 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>
>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
>>> competitions.
>>>
>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>
>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>> UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
>>>
>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
>>> openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
>>> titles nationwide.
>>>
>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
>>> Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>> every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>
>>>
>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>
>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>
>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>
>> At this point it’s just punching down.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Roger, while I'm quite sure that you believe that the point is made -
> UNTIL the UCI actually acts. the point is not made. Only two years ago
> the UCI was going to remove all weight limits on bikes in pro races. Where did that go?
>
Was quite a few years ago, and was a suggestion that the weight limit could
be replaced by standards ie strength and so on.

Since the weight limit only applies to racers it was a long shot to put it
mildly and sank without trace as you where.

While most sporting organisations have banned transgender athletes, and
it’s under review at the UCI which is improbable that it will not be
banned, it’s where the weight of evidence and fairness lies.

Roger Merriman

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>>
>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>>
>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
>
> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
> in their locker rooms.
>
Again this is best left to case by case basis and as most folks don’t
transition until after puberty, to the best of my knowledge ie late teens
at earliest.

Even within that confused article (felt like it had been by multiple people
or re written multiple times) noted that some folks will not be able to
participate, it’s way of life can’t please everyone all the time.

I really think as you are vexed about it should find the source and not
rely on muddled articles.

>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it’s a political
>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>>
>> I’d personally If it’s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>> actually been proposed, as the article isn’t clear on that in terms of
>> details.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
Roger Merriman

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>>
>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>>
>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
>
> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
> in their locker rooms.
>
>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it’s a political
>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>>
>> I’d personally If it’s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>> actually been proposed, as the article isn’t clear on that in terms of
>> details.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
Best I can find is.

https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams

Ie seems to aimed at preventing block bans and asking schools to do
evaluate on a case by case basis, and notes that some students will not be
able to participate for any number of reasons.

Considering how few there are that doesn’t seem particularly taxing.

Roger Merriman

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 14:46:53 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>>>
>>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
>>
>> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
>> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
>> in their locker rooms.
>>
>Again this is best left to case by case basis and as most folks don’t
>transition until after puberty, to the best of my knowledge ie late teens
>at earliest.
>
>Even within that confused article (felt like it had been by multiple people
>or re written multiple times) noted that some folks will not be able to
>participate, it’s way of life can’t please everyone all the time.

Everyone can participate, but not in things intended for the opposite
sex.

>I really think as you are vexed about it should find the source and not
>rely on muddled articles.

This is and has been a standard news item in the USA for weeks and
weeks. Here's what the actual Dept of Education says about it..

"The proposed rule would establish that policies violate Title IX when
they categorically ban transgender students from participating on
sports teams consistent with their gender identity"

https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams

>>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it?s a political
>>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>>>
>>> I?d personally If it?s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>>> actually been proposed, as the article isn?t clear on that in terms of
>>> details.

See above...

Title 9, by the way, was originally established to protect women and
girls. Now it's being used to punish them by allowing males to sneak
into female events and spaces.

>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>Roger Merriman
>

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:16:21 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>>>
>>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
>>
>> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
>> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
>> in their locker rooms.
>>
>>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it?s a political
>>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>>>
>>> I?d personally If it?s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>>> actually been proposed, as the article isn?t clear on that in terms of
>>> details.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>Best I can find is.
>
>https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams
>
>Ie seems to aimed at preventing block bans and asking schools to do
>evaluate on a case by case basis, and notes that some students will not be
>able to participate for any number of reasons.
>
>Considering how few there are that doesn’t seem particularly taxing.
>
>Roger Merriman
>

What's wrong with just limiting women's athletic events, restrooms,
and shower rooms to women? ..and no, individuals with a penis are not
women.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 7:46:56 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 3:44:00 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
> >>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
> >>> win taken away from natural-born women.
> >>>
> >>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
> >>> decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
> >>> competitions.
> >>>
> >>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
> >>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
> >>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
> >>>
> >>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
> >>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
> >>> UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
> >>>
> >>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
> >>> openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
> >>> titles nationwide.
> >>>
> >>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
> >>> Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
> >>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
> >>> every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
> >>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
> >>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
> >>
> >> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
> >> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
> >>
> >> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
> >>
> >> At this point it’s just punching down.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > Roger, while I'm quite sure that you believe that the point is made -
> > UNTIL the UCI actually acts. the point is not made. Only two years ago
> > the UCI was going to remove all weight limits on bikes in pro races. Where did that go?
> >
> Was quite a few years ago, and was a suggestion that the weight limit could
> be replaced by standards ie strength and so on.
>
> Since the weight limit only applies to racers it was a long shot to put it
> mildly and sank without trace as you where.
>
> While most sporting organisations have banned transgender athletes, and
> it’s under review at the UCI which is improbable that it will not be
> banned, it’s where the weight of evidence and fairness lies.
>
> Roger Merriman
`The claim had NOTHING to do with strength or anything else. They were simply going to eliminate the weight limits. This would leave the manufacturers the option of deciding if a material was strong enough to bear their names in front of the public. I simply am not spreading ridiculous rumors like Flunky who claimed that Marco Pantani broke 30 aluminum frames in a season. The same frames that his team were riding one frame for an entire season and Pantani himself weighing 126 lbs. I guess Flunky will believe anything.

On 6/12/2023 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Hmm. Maybe I can have a racing career yet!
>
> I could buy a classic Harley knucklehead (all-time favorite MC) and self
> identify as a bicyclist. Who's to dispute that? Haters?

That strategy is self-correcting. Knuckleheads are noted for shedding
parts as they travel. If the race were longer than 100 miles, you'd be
pushing the remainder of the motorcycle toward the finish line.

Harleys are for people who can't afford BMWs. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/12/2023 8:40 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>
> I’m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
> competitive though at that point if it’s competitive even if amateur. Then
> doesn’t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>
> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
> chose to but mostly didn’t!

I never understood the strong connection between American universities
and sports. I don't know firsthand, but a friend of mine who researched
the issue for a lecture series in which he participated. He said that
the connection (generally?) doesn't occur in Europe. He also said that
for most universities, athletic teams are not money makers. They are
money sinks.

Here I'm talking about official university teams. In college, I played
intramural football, meaning a loosely organized league pitting one
major (e.g. Mechanical Engineering students) against another. It was
great fun, but the university had no hand in organizing the competitions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/12/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/12/2023 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> Hmm. Maybe I can have a racing career yet!
>>
>> I could buy a classic Harley knucklehead (all-time
>> favorite MC) and self identify as a bicyclist. Who's to
>> dispute that? Haters?
>
> That strategy is self-correcting. Knuckleheads are noted for
> shedding parts as they travel. If the race were longer than
> 100 miles, you'd be pushing the remainder of the motorcycle
> toward the finish line.
>
> Harleys are for people who can't afford BMWs. ;-)
>

Nice opportunity for a wager.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:54:55 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/12/2023 8:40 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>
>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>
>> I’m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>> competitive though at that point if it’s competitive even if amateur. Then
>> doesn’t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>
>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>> chose to but mostly didn’t!
>
>I never understood the strong connection between American universities
>and sports. I don't know firsthand, but a friend of mine who researched
>the issue for a lecture series in which he participated. He said that
>the connection (generally?) doesn't occur in Europe. He also said that
>for most universities, athletic teams are not money makers. They are
>money sinks.
>
>Here I'm talking about official university teams. In college, I played
>intramural football, meaning a loosely organized league pitting one
>major (e.g. Mechanical Engineering students) against another. It was
>great fun, but the university had no hand in organizing the competitions.

I was a fan of the teams of the colleges where I played and had
friends, but after I left, I soon had no connecions and thus, wasn't
interested in their teams. Since that time, the only athletics I have
any interest in are the teams my kids or my grandkids are part of.

I never understood the professional sports fan base and why fans get
so devoted to a bunch of athletes they have no connection to, other
than being named after a nearby city.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:16:21 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>>>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>>>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>>>>
>>>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
>>>
>>> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
>>> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
>>> in their locker rooms.
>>>
>>>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it?s a political
>>>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>>>>
>>>> I?d personally If it?s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>>>> actually been proposed, as the article isn?t clear on that in terms of
>>>> details.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>> Best I can find is.
>>
>> https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams
>>
>> Ie seems to aimed at preventing block bans and asking schools to do
>> evaluate on a case by case basis, and notes that some students will not be
>> able to participate for any number of reasons.
>>
>> Considering how few there are that doesn’t seem particularly taxing.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> What's wrong with just limiting women's athletic events, restrooms,
> and shower rooms to women? ..and no, individuals with a penis are not
> women.
>
If it’s more social in nature ie fun run type stuff? Maybe? Female spaces
ie restrooms and the like? Folks who have identified but not transitioned?
Which is likely to be zero in school or college considering the time for
hormones plus surgeries. I’m not convinced is wise.

But blanket bans are simply a poor idea.

Roger Merriman

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 7:46:56 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 3:44:00 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>
>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>
>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>> UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
>>>>> openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
>>>>> Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>> every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>
>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>
>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>
>>>> At this point it’s just punching down.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> Roger, while I'm quite sure that you believe that the point is made -
>>> UNTIL the UCI actually acts. the point is not made. Only two years ago
>>> the UCI was going to remove all weight limits on bikes in pro races. Where did that go?
>>>
>> Was quite a few years ago, and was a suggestion that the weight limit could
>> be replaced by standards ie strength and so on.
>>
>> Since the weight limit only applies to racers it was a long shot to put it
>> mildly and sank without trace as you where.
>>
>> While most sporting organisations have banned transgender athletes, and
>> it’s under review at the UCI which is improbable that it will not be
>> banned, it’s where the weight of evidence and fairness lies.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> `The claim had NOTHING to do with strength or anything else. They were
> simply going to eliminate the weight limits. This would leave the
> manufacturers the option of deciding if a material was strong enough to
> bear their names in front of the public. I simply am not spreading
> ridiculous rumors like Flunky who claimed that Marco Pantani broke 30
> aluminum frames in a season. The same frames that his team were riding
> one frame for an entire season and Pantani himself weighing 126 lbs. I
> guess Flunky will believe anything.
>
It was GCN who claimed that, 30 frames, the article I read from 2014, did
note that the weigh limit would be replaced by safety based assessment.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/ucis-outdated-6-8kg-minimum-bike-weight-rule-to-be-replaced/

Not all bikes are on the limit, even racers as they chase aero over weight.

I suspect the push to remove it has rather gone from teams

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 6/12/2023 8:40 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>
>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>
>> I’m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>> competitive though at that point if it’s competitive even if amateur. Then
>> doesn’t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>
>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>> chose to but mostly didn’t!
>
> I never understood the strong connection between American universities
> and sports. I don't know firsthand, but a friend of mine who researched
> the issue for a lecture series in which he participated. He said that
> the connection (generally?) doesn't occur in Europe. He also said that
> for most universities, athletic teams are not money makers. They are
> money sinks.
>
> Here I'm talking about official university teams. In college, I played
> intramural football, meaning a loosely organized league pitting one
> major (e.g. Mechanical Engineering students) against another. It was
> great fun, but the university had no hand in organizing the competitions.
>
Sports university are not a Europe thing, closest is I guess the boat race
between Oxford and Cambridge. Which often has Americans in it!

Roger Merriman

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 18:29:44 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:16:21 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
>>>>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
>>>>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
>>>>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
>>>>>>>>>> competitions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
>>>>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
>>>>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
>>>>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
>>>>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
>>>>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
>>>>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
>>>>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
>>>>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
>>>>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
>>>>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
>>>>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
>>>>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
>>>>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
>>>>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
>>>>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
>>>>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
>>>>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
>>>>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
>>>>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
>>>>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
>>>>>>
>>>>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
>>>>
>>>> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
>>>> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
>>>> in their locker rooms.
>>>>
>>>>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it?s a political
>>>>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?d personally If it?s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
>>>>> actually been proposed, as the article isn?t clear on that in terms of
>>>>> details.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>> Best I can find is.
>>>
>>> https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams
>>>
>>> Ie seems to aimed at preventing block bans and asking schools to do
>>> evaluate on a case by case basis, and notes that some students will not be
>>> able to participate for any number of reasons.
>>>
>>> Considering how few there are that doesn?t seem particularly taxing.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>> What's wrong with just limiting women's athletic events, restrooms,
>> and shower rooms to women? ..and no, individuals with a penis are not
>> women.
>>
>If it’s more social in nature ie fun run type stuff?

No, it's girls and women missing out on fame and fortune that is
righfully their.

>Maybe? Female spaces
>ie restrooms and the like? Folks who have identified but not transitioned?

"transforming" from male to female is not possible.

>Which is likely to be zero in school or college considering the time for
>hormones plus surgeries. I’m not convinced is wise.
>
>But blanket bans are simply a poor idea.

It's worked fine for thousands of years.

>Roger Merriman

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 11:29:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:16:21 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:01:36 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:40:41 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:43:57 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women?s
> >>>>>>>>> category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
> >>>>>>>>> win taken away from natural-born women.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
> >>>>>>>>> decided he was a woman and began entering women?s cycling
> >>>>>>>>> competitions.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
> >>>>>>>>> proclaimed that Killips met cycling?s rules for trans athletes, but
> >>>>>>>>> his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
> >>>>>>>>> cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
> >>>>>>>>> UCI was ?effectively killing off women?s cycling.?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thompson also urged female cyclists to start ?taking a knee? and
> >>>>>>>>> openly protesting the UCI?s rules that have been locking women out of
> >>>>>>>>> titles nationwide.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,?
> >>>>>>>>> Thompson tweeted. ?Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
> >>>>>>>>> managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
> >>>>>>>>> every race ?Save Women?s Sports.'?
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
> >>>>>>>>> to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Your getting as bad as Tom, the argument is already won.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In Glasgow in August the UCI will ban transgender athletes, (its highly
> >>>>>>>> unlikely that they will not) and join most other sports organisations.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Note Paige Onweller comments ie the 2nd placed woman.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At this point it?s just punching down.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> See cite regarding Biden's proposed title 9 change.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> School sport is a long way, from professional or even amateur competition.
> >>>>>> It sounds like the sort of thing best done on a case by case basis..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I?m aware that American colleges are different in that way ie much more
> >>>>>> competitive though at that point if it?s competitive even if amateur. Then
> >>>>>> doesn?t sound like should be trans folks should be allowed, but will be
> >>>>>> more socially type stuff where it may well be.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I certainly did some school sports mixed, mainly stuff like longer runs and
> >>>>>> so on where it aim was to learn and so on, or in my case as was always fit,
> >>>>>> but not competitive just cruse along. Quite capable of podium in races if I
> >>>>>> chose to but mostly didn?t!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm much more concerned with males involved in womens' athletics in
> >>>>> schools and colleges where the state, local, and federal governments
> >>>>> push, and now, attempt to mandate the "trans" crap.
> >>>>>
> >>>> They would be boys at most? Ie sub 18 years old?
> >>>
> >>> It would be boys pretending to be girls, participating in girls only
> >>> events and activities, using girls rest rooms and showering with girls
> >>> in their locker rooms.
> >>>
> >>>> The article is rather all over the place, sounds like it?s a political
> >>>> football in America if you forgive the pun, which does the kids no favours.
> >>>>
> >>>> I?d personally If it?s vexing me, be checking the source ie what has
> >>>> actually been proposed, as the article isn?t clear on that in terms of
> >>>> details.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>
> >> Best I can find is.
> >>
> >> https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-us-department-educations-proposed-change-its-title-ix-regulations-students-eligibility-athletic-teams
> >>
> >> Ie seems to aimed at preventing block bans and asking schools to do
> >> evaluate on a case by case basis, and notes that some students will not be
> >> able to participate for any number of reasons.
> >>
> >> Considering how few there are that doesn’t seem particularly taxing.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >>
> >
> > What's wrong with just limiting women's athletic events, restrooms,
> > and shower rooms to women? ..and no, individuals with a penis are not
> > women.
> >
> If it’s more social in nature ie fun run type stuff? Maybe? Female spaces
> ie restrooms and the like? Folks who have identified but not transitioned?
> Which is likely to be zero in school or college considering the time for
> hormones plus surgeries. I’m not convinced is wise.
>
> But blanket bans are simply a poor idea.
>
> Roger Merriman

Roger, I guess you don't understand biology much. NONE of the hormones change the basic composition of the male body. Should a "completely transitioned" male enter a woman's race, they would still have a biological advantage. IF hormonal treatments made a difference why aren't women successfully competing in male pro races?

That isn't meant to be insulting - I'm just trying to make a point. Until the UCI actually makes these changes to the rules, biological males can still steal races from women. And the women should simply refuse to compete in a race with a male in them.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 2:17:06 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/12/2023 3:37 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >
> > A man who claims to be a woman has won first place in the women’s
> > category in a North Carolina cycling tour, making the race yet another
> > win taken away from natural-born women.
> >
> > Killips has been taking titles away from women since 2019, when he
> > decided he was a woman and began entering women’s cycling
> > competitions.
> >
> > In May, both USA Cycling and the Union Cycliste Internationale
> > proclaimed that Killips met cycling’s rules for trans athletes, but
> > his constant wins have met with resistance in cycling.
> >
> > After Killips won the Tour of the Gila this year, former Olympic
> > cyclist Inga Thompson tweeted that with its rules for trans women, the
> > UCI was “effectively killing off women’s cycling.”
> >
> > Thompson also urged female cyclists to start “taking a knee” and
> > openly protesting the UCI’s rules that have been locking women out of
> > titles nationwide.
> >
> > It is time for Women Cyclist to start protesting @UCI_cycling Policy,”
> > Thompson tweeted. “Start taking a knee at the starting lines. Team
> > managers need to speak up and protect their riders. Hold signs at
> > every race ‘Save Women’s Sports.'”
> > https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2023/06/11/man-wins-first-place-in-the-womens-category-in-north-carolina-cycling-race/
> >
> >
> > Maybe it's time to get rid of the government officials who are trying
> > to force this disgusting misogynist crap on us.
> >
> > https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/title-ix-transgender-student-athletes-biden-rule/index.html
> >
> Hmm. Maybe I can have a racing career yet!
>
> I could buy a classic Harley knucklehead (all-time favorite
> MC) and self identify as a bicyclist. Who's to dispute that?
> Haters?
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
Queer bashers, racists, white supremacists? You really need to move into the 21st century, Andrew, keep up with the times and all the good stuff flowing from the Biden White House. --- AJ
>