On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 21:32:44 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 3:32:07 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:51:01 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:42:08 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 00:32:29 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 6:54:38 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:44:00 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 6:20:25 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:00:34 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 5:54:03 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:05:25 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:58:20 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > This gets you more fins for better transfer to the air. People focus on silly points like diamond heat sink grease, when they often lose far more performance at other points in the heat path. Ultimately there is a limit on how larger a heat sink you can attach to a CPU/GPU directly.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I have a 6 inch cube attached to mine.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > If size and cost are not an issue, heat pipes to connect the heat block on the CPU/GPU to a much larger thermal air interface. Bigger fins, bigger fan and much better performance.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Then water cooling can get even better performance, and the noisy bits can be somewhere else, even in another room. I remember discussing this with a guy who ran the tubes to a drum in his garage where he didn't even need to use an air interface. The thermal mass of the drum was good enough to absorb the heat for the time he ran the computer. Zero noise other than the power supply fan, I suppose he still had one of those.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Water cooling manufacturers have lost the plot, they move the water to a heatsink wtih.... fans! The one I had years ago had a huge water tower which cooled by convection. There's no point in water cooling if you still have fans!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Lol! You are so funny sometimes. You remind me of DLUNU. Unable to even understand what you've read.
>> >> >> >> You're not right in the head, let me make it simple for you:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This is a typical water cooling arrangement: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/corsair_cw_9060014_ww_hydro_series_h110_280mm_1094578.jpg
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Notice how the fans will be only a foot away from where they would be anyway. So utterly pointless. All they've done is introduce another point of failure, the pump. Oh and the leaks.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> So er... what was I read wrong?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I don't know what you read wrong. What did you read? Maybe nothing.
>> >> >> You wrote nothing to explain the point of the image I just showed you.
>> >> >
>> >> > What do you think needs to be explained? What do you not understand?
>> >> Why the device in the image is any better than air cooling. Since it is still air cooling, but 6 inches away.
>> >
>> > It cools better in the sense of moving more heat with a lower temperature delta. What part of this do you not understand? Do you think every combination of heat sink and fan works the same?
>> It moves as much heat as the fan speed and heatsink surface area allow. Moving this further away serves no purpose apart from introducing another "resistance" in the heat movement.
>
> You can't mount such large fans on a heat sink bolted to the CPU. Well, I shouldn't say "can't", but it's not recommended. At some point there is not sufficient strength to support such a large mass on such a long lever arm.

I have two 6 inch fans on mine. That's no less than on water coolers for CPUs.

> I'm sure you will find some insane heat sink somewhere. Whatever. This is the reason for water cooling. To get a lower temperature at the CPU than you can get with an attached heat sink and fan.

You don't need a lower temperature. They're rated up to about 90C.

> As I've pointed out, with some water cooling setups, you don't even need a fan, just a pump which is much, much quieter and that can be in another room. The one guy put his in the garage. No fan, no radiator, just a barrel and a pump.

Those make sense. I used to have one. Big water tower behind my desk.

Someone I know on the Boinc projects has several GPUs water cooled by a domestic central heating radiator, which is outside his house. Could be inside, but he lives in a hot place.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 4:38:20 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 21:32:44 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 3:32:07 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:51:01 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:42:08 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 00:32:29 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 6:54:38 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:44:00 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 6:20:25 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:00:34 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 5:54:03 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:05:25 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:58:20 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > This gets you more fins for better transfer to the air. People focus on silly points like diamond heat sink grease, when they often lose far more performance at other points in the heat path. Ultimately there is a limit on how larger a heat sink you can attach to a CPU/GPU directly.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> I have a 6 inch cube attached to mine.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > If size and cost are not an issue, heat pipes to connect the heat block on the CPU/GPU to a much larger thermal air interface. Bigger fins, bigger fan and much better performance.
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > Then water cooling can get even better performance, and the noisy bits can be somewhere else, even in another room. I remember discussing this with a guy who ran the tubes to a drum in his garage where he didn't even need to use an air interface. The thermal mass of the drum was good enough to absorb the heat for the time he ran the computer. Zero noise other than the power supply fan, I suppose he still had one of those.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Water cooling manufacturers have lost the plot, they move the water to a heatsink wtih.... fans! The one I had years ago had a huge water tower which cooled by convection. There's no point in water cooling if you still have fans!
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Lol! You are so funny sometimes. You remind me of DLUNU. Unable to even understand what you've read.
> >> >> >> >> You're not right in the head, let me make it simple for you:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> This is a typical water cooling arrangement: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/corsair_cw_9060014_ww_hydro_series_h110_280mm_1094578.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Notice how the fans will be only a foot away from where they would be anyway. So utterly pointless. All they've done is introduce another point of failure, the pump. Oh and the leaks.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> So er... what was I read wrong?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I don't know what you read wrong. What did you read? Maybe nothing.
> >> >> >> You wrote nothing to explain the point of the image I just showed you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > What do you think needs to be explained? What do you not understand?
> >> >> Why the device in the image is any better than air cooling. Since it is still air cooling, but 6 inches away.
> >> >
> >> > It cools better in the sense of moving more heat with a lower temperature delta. What part of this do you not understand? Do you think every combination of heat sink and fan works the same?
> >> It moves as much heat as the fan speed and heatsink surface area allow.. Moving this further away serves no purpose apart from introducing another "resistance" in the heat movement.
> >
> > You can't mount such large fans on a heat sink bolted to the CPU. Well, I shouldn't say "can't", but it's not recommended. At some point there is not sufficient strength to support such a large mass on such a long lever arm.
> I have two 6 inch fans on mine. That's no less than on water coolers for CPUs.

I don't care about your 6 inches. The water cooler is a more effective cooler and lowers the CPU temperature. Why can't you understand that?

> > I'm sure you will find some insane heat sink somewhere. Whatever. This is the reason for water cooling. To get a lower temperature at the CPU than you can get with an attached heat sink and fan.
> You don't need a lower temperature. They're rated up to about 90C.

LOL!!!! You have no understanding of why people by aftermarket CPU cooling.. So there's literally no point in this discussion.

> > As I've pointed out, with some water cooling setups, you don't even need a fan, just a pump which is much, much quieter and that can be in another room. The one guy put his in the garage. No fan, no radiator, just a barrel and a pump.
> Those make sense. I used to have one. Big water tower behind my desk.
>
> Someone I know on the Boinc projects has several GPUs water cooled by a domestic central heating radiator, which is outside his house. Could be inside, but he lives in a hot place.

Why? The CPU is happy at 90°C!

What a tool. Like the other discussion, there's no point in continuing. I think you are a self contradiction.

--

Rick C.

-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 20:24:51 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:14:38 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:44:30 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 00:33:49 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 6:56:49 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:54:39 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:52:56 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>>>>> > <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:50:48 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:52:28 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>>>>> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:42:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On 2022-04-17 16:49, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:31:52 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>> >>>>>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2022-04-17 00:23, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>>>>> >>>>>>>> <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Like carving a turkey dinner
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skiving is real slow. The only value is you get thinner fins than can be
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> extruded. More machining is needed if you want holes though any of that.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Those long skinny fins don't look efficient to me. And they would need
>>>>> >>>>>>>> a huge air blast.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think so: a strong air blast would bend the fins.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> That strong would destroy the enclosure and kill bystanders.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> I don't think so, those fins are almost paper thin.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> So they'd be almost destroyed.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> There are data sheets for heat sinks. I suspect they include
>>>>> >>> dimensions. You know, numbers.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is it just to make it look pretty?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Post a picture and we can discuss it.
>>>>> It's not complicated enough to need a picture. It's a CPU heatsink where the fins are aluminium at the bottom, then some copper, then some more aluminium.
>>>>
>>>> A picture is worth 1,000 words.
>>>
>>> Only for those who lack imagination. For the retarded, here's a little picture for you....
>>> https://www.allround-pc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Zalman-CNPS20X-Beleuchtung.jpg
>>
>> Do the colored LEDs improve heat transfer?
>
>I never connected mine, and it seems to be ok. I guess it could be an indicator the fans are operating.

Gamer PCs and keyboards are always funny. I remember when cars had
tail fins and jeans had bell bottoms.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Commander Kinsey wrote:

<snip>

> Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins
> and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is
> it just to make it look pretty?

Good question. For decades now, Intel retailed bi-metallic CPU coolers
with copper baseplates and aluminum fins:

https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/bottom.png
https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/top.png

The coolers shown above are intended for use in a "beige box." The
cooler fan on top of the copper core and the CPU beneath it obscure all
aesthetic aspects.
Perhaps the copper provides superior thermal conductivity while the
aluminum offers greater mechanical strength?

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

onsdag den 20. april 2022 kl. 21.09.35 UTC+2 skrev Don:
> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins
> > and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is
> > it just to make it look pretty?
> Good question. For decades now, Intel retailed bi-metallic CPU coolers
> with copper baseplates and aluminum fins:
>
> https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/bottom.png
> https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/top.png
>
> The coolers shown above are intended for use in a "beige box." The
> cooler fan on top of the copper core and the CPU beneath it obscure all
> aesthetic aspects.
> Perhaps the copper provides superior thermal conductivity while the
> aluminum offers greater mechanical strength?
>

afair copper is almost twice as good a aluminium but expensive.

most of the benefits of copper is probably already had by just
using a copper heat spreader to get the from the small cpu to the larger heatsink
and then the rest of the way aluminium work just as good

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:
> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins
> > and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is
> > it just to make it look pretty?
> Good question. For decades now, Intel retailed bi-metallic CPU coolers
> with copper baseplates and aluminum fins:
>
> https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/bottom.png
> https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/top.png
>
> The coolers shown above are intended for use in a "beige box." The
> cooler fan on top of the copper core and the CPU beneath it obscure all
> aesthetic aspects.
> Perhaps the copper provides superior thermal conductivity while the
> aluminum offers greater mechanical strength?

I don't think copper is not strong enough for a heat sink, but it's freaking heavy compared to aluminum. You can only bolt so much weight onto these boards before it causes problems. The copper base is great for spreading the heat out to the fins, but the fins don't need to be so highly conductive to carry their portion of the heat and couple it to the air.

--

Rick C.

-++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

onsdag den 20. april 2022 kl. 23.29.25 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:
> > Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins
> > > and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is
> > > it just to make it look pretty?
> > Good question. For decades now, Intel retailed bi-metallic CPU coolers
> > with copper baseplates and aluminum fins:
> >
> > https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/bottom.png
> > https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/top.png
> >
> > The coolers shown above are intended for use in a "beige box." The
> > cooler fan on top of the copper core and the CPU beneath it obscure all
> > aesthetic aspects.
> > Perhaps the copper provides superior thermal conductivity while the
> > aluminum offers greater mechanical strength?
> I don't think copper is not strong enough for a heat sink, but it's freaking heavy compared to aluminum. You can only bolt so much weight onto these boards before it causes problems. The copper base is great for spreading the heat out to the fins, but the fins don't need to be so highly conductive to carry their portion of the heat and couple it to the air.
>
https://youtu.be/Q7qVpWu2QYs

but as you say, once the heat has been spread over a larger area there is probably not much benefit from expensive copper

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:t0sq5hdnvplvm2n7kbqigtfft5m5s4h6p4@4ax.com:

> That's a fun number. That's a lot of thermal resistance, and the
> insides of a metal box won't be a black body so things are worse in
> real life.
>

That depends on what it is made from and what surface treatment it
got.

I made IR calibration ovens decades ago, and now they make
calibration surfaces where the temp has to be homogenous across an
entire surface, which is very difficult to achieve due to local air
currents and other factors.

Not sure if you have a full grasp of just what a black body radiator
is. Maybe you only have a fool grasp.

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
news:op.1kucbih5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan:

> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:58:13 +0100, bitrex <user@example.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>
>> Like carving a turkey dinner
>
> How does that even work? The bit at the end of each one where it
> magically bends up to the vertical.
>

Copper "work hardens" and such a bend would create micro-fractures
right at the bend joint.

To my knowledge Aluminum does not, but that may not be true of all
of the alloys in that metal's family.

However, these thoings are done by engineers for customers, so I am
sure that efficay was examined, determined and compared to other
means and it would not exist at all were it not able to produce an
effective heat sink.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 5:41:29 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> onsdag den 20. april 2022 kl. 23.29.25 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
> > On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:
> > > Commander Kinsey wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > > Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins
> > > > and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is
> > > > it just to make it look pretty?
> > > Good question. For decades now, Intel retailed bi-metallic CPU coolers
> > > with copper baseplates and aluminum fins:
> > >
> > > https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/bottom.png
> > > https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/top.png
> > >
> > > The coolers shown above are intended for use in a "beige box." The
> > > cooler fan on top of the copper core and the CPU beneath it obscure all
> > > aesthetic aspects.
> > > Perhaps the copper provides superior thermal conductivity while the
> > > aluminum offers greater mechanical strength?
> > I don't think copper is not strong enough for a heat sink, but it's freaking heavy compared to aluminum. You can only bolt so much weight onto these boards before it causes problems. The copper base is great for spreading the heat out to the fins, but the fins don't need to be so highly conductive to carry their portion of the heat and couple it to the air.
> >
> https://youtu.be/Q7qVpWu2QYs
>
> but as you say, once the heat has been spread over a larger area there is probably not much benefit from expensive copper

I would be interesting to be able to take measurements of the temperature profile across a fin in a heatsink. You can do finite element analysis once you make your assumptions, but to get past the unknowns, measurements would be useful. I suppose all that really matters is the base temperature given an air source and air temperature. That delta T is all that is really important. But knowing the temperature distribution on the fin could help design better fins, perhaps. With the pressed in fins, it could be practical to alter the width of the fin from top to bottom. But I suppose there's not much point really. Just make the fins fat enough to carry as much heat as needed. I wonder if they have an equation for fin width/spacing vs. the number of fins, to identify the optimum?

Or just go with water cooling. I've always liked that idea. I was going to build a water cooling system from scratch for a desktop. I ended up with a laptop before I got it ready for test. They already use heat pipes. It's hard to beat that. They have really tiny radiators with very, very thin fins, but lots of them. I wonder how they get any air to flow through them??? It must be magic.

--

Rick C.

-+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 00.12.14 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in
> news:op.1kucb...@ryzen.lan:
>
> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:58:13 +0100, bitrex <us...@example.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
> >>
> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
> >>
> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
> >
> > How does that even work? The bit at the end of each one where it
> > magically bends up to the vertical.
> >
>
> Copper "work hardens" and such a bend would create micro-fractures
> right at the bend joint.

only if you try to bend it back, annealed copper is dead soft only gets hard once you have bend it

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
news:op.1kudn2esmvhs6z@ryzen.lan:

> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:00:34 +0100, Ricky
> <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 5:54:03 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
>> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:05:25 +0100, Ricky
>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:58:20 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>>> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>> >>
>>> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>> >>
>>> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
>>> >
>>> > This gets you more fins for better transfer to the air. People
>>> > focus on silly points like diamond heat sink grease, when they
>>> > often lose far more performance at other points in the heat
>>> > path. Ultimately there is a limit on how larger a heat sink
>>> > you can attach to a CPU/GPU directly.
>>>
>>> I have a 6 inch cube attached to mine.
>>>
>>> > If size and cost are not an issue, heat pipes to connect the
>>> > heat block on the CPU/GPU to a much larger thermal air
>>> > interface. Bigger fins, bigger fan and much better
>>> > performance.
>>> >
>>> > Then water cooling can get even better performance, and the
>>> > noisy bits can be somewhere else, even in another room. I
>>> > remember discussing this with a guy who ran the tubes to a
>>> > drum in his garage where he didn't even need to use an air
>>> > interface. The thermal mass of the drum was good enough to
>>> > absorb the heat for the time he ran the computer. Zero noise
>>> > other than the power supply fan, I suppose he still had one of
>>> > those.
>>>
>>> Water cooling manufacturers have lost the plot, they move the
>>> water to a heatsink wtih.... fans! The one I had years ago had a
>>> huge water tower which cooled by convection. There's no point in
>>> water cooling if you still have fans!
>>
>> Lol! You are so funny sometimes. You remind me of DLUNU.
>> Unable to even understand what you've read.
>
> You're not right in the head, let me make it simple for you:
>
> This is a typical water cooling arrangement:
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/corsair_cw_9060
> 014_ww_hydro_series_h110_280mm_1094578.jpg
>
> Notice how the fans will be only a foot away from where they would
> be anyway. So utterly pointless. All they've done is introduce
> another point of failure, the pump. Oh and the leaks.
>
> So er... what was I read wrong?
>

Let me correct the fuck out of your utter stupidity.

Water cooling takes internal case air and passes it through the
radiator OUTSIDE the case, and no, the pumps do not fail and they do
not have leaking problems. Maybe you are just so goddamned stupid
and dismissive that you failed to note that the problems with the
early water based "systems" were overcome over a decade ago.

Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote in
news:16e723e88710fdef$7$1100196$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:

> On 18/4/22 3:45 am, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
> wrote:
>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>> news:thfo5ht952906bo9837snjolpjfd2lsc00@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:10:41 -0700,
>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:55:21 -0000 (UTC),
>>>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:3f3e0e0f-175e-4d27-be95-401418cc7e54n@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The large surface area of the long, skinny fins are perfect
>>>>>> coupling between the low thermal resistance of the heat sink
>>>>>> and the relatively high thermal conductivity of the fin/air
>>>>>> contact.
>>>>>
>>>>> The word(s) for today is "boundary layer".
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.heatsinkcalculator.com/blog/wp-
>>>>> content/uploads/2016/05/effect_of_boundary_laher_thickness.png>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.heatsinkcalculator.com/blog/top-3-mistakes-made-wh
>>>>> en- selecting-a-heat-sink/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Slow air would pass right over a close fin spaced sink.
>>>>> High speed
>>>>> forced air is required when the fins get that closely spaced.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right. Viscous drag will keep air from flowing between tall,
>>>> closely spaced fins. It will have to be ducted and forced, or
>>>> it will go around.
>>>>
>>>> The limiting case, more and more denser and thinner fins,
>>>> volumetric air flow will approach zero.
>>>>
>>>> My general rule is that a heat sink should reduce the native
>>>> air flow by about half. Neither zero nor 100% does any cooling.
>>>
>>> And of course, the tips of tall thin fins have a high thermal
>>> resistance to the baseplate, so run at about inlet air temp, so
>>> restrict air flow without contributing much coolong. My 50%
>>> number is useless if the air flow is restricted without
>>> corresponding cooling.
>>>
>>> There is no limit to how bad a heat sink you can design. A solid
>>> aluminum brick is pretty bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I even saw some where they slice up each fin into little
>> fingers
>> and the sink was "bristling" with them. Probably pretty good,
>> but again, the air movement over and through them is required.
>> Air flow means nothing if it does not intertwine with the heated
>> elements to get hot and then be carried off as more air is added
>> to be heated and moved. It's a bucket brigade.
>
> I'm surprised they don't skive using a wavy cutter. It seems you
> could easily add turbulence to the air to get better cooling with
> bigger fin spacing (fewer fins).
>
> Clifford Heath
>
>

I agree. They are likely considering the air flow available as
being the defining (restricting) element. A wavy design would likely
need more flow to gain motion at the boundary layer, but should be
far more efficient once achieved. I would even like to see the
numbers on a system that "injected" air at the very base of the sink
fin array with small jets in front of each one, and also, of course,
normal air flow systems to carry it all off.

Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote in
news:16e7243ae6ab4d09$1$1100196$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:

> On 18/4/22 1:49 am, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
> wrote:
>> I always wanted to make an entire PC immersed in dielectric
>> fluid
>> <https://econtroldevices.com/shop/3m-fc-40-fluorinert-electronic-
>> liquid-20kg/>
>>
>> But it too has to be moving to carry the heat away.
>
> I read that the Cray supercomputers were flooded in liquid Freon,
> pumped through - 100kW of cooling to remove 100kW of heating.
>
> Clifford Heath
>

And then they banned freon. I am sure the refrigerants now used
would be good too though.

The best thing is that transistor size reduction (node size) has
made power consumption drop drastically as transistor count and
fucntion increases.

This is why I love electronics so much compared to the rest of the
world's induxtries. It gets better and beter as it gets less and
less expensive.

The post I made about that science girl is one where she goes over
the new NVidia units and they have BILLIONS of elements each.

It is literally amazing to me how many logic toggles get made these
days without errors. We used to worry about how many vias a PCB
layout had as points of failure. Now even PCB manufacturing is
amazing, as is the level of quality.

Even the quick turn short run guys are pretty darn good.

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
news:op.1kvsutc5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:43:23 +0100, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:53:54 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>>> <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:05:25 +0100, Ricky
>>>> <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:58:20 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like carving a turkey dinner
>>>>>
>>>>> This gets you more fins for better transfer to the air.
>>>>> People focus on silly points like diamond heat sink grease,
>>>>> when they often lose far more performance at other points in
>>>>> the heat path. Ultimately there is a limit on how larger a
>>>>> heat sink you can attach to a CPU/GPU directly.
>>>>
>>>> I have a 6 inch cube attached to mine.
>>>>
>>>>> If size and cost are not an issue, heat pipes to connect the
>>>>> heat block on the CPU/GPU to a much larger thermal air
>>>>> interface. Bigger fins, bigger fan and much better
>>>>> performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then water cooling can get even better performance, and the
>>>>> noisy bits can be somewhere else, even in another room. I
>>>>> remember discussing this with a guy who ran the tubes to a
>>>>> drum in his garage where he didn't even need to use an air
>>>>> interface. The thermal mass of the drum was good enough to
>>>>> absorb the heat for the time he ran the computer. Zero noise
>>>>> other than the power supply fan, I suppose he still had one of
>>>>> those.
>>>>
>>>> Water cooling manufacturers have lost the plot, they move the
>>>> water to a heatsink wtih.... fans! The one I had years ago had
>>>> a huge water tower which cooled by convection. There's no
>>>> point in water cooling if you still have fans!
>>>
>>> Like a car? No point?
>>
>> The old Beetle was air-cooled. Should be good enough for anyone.
>> ;)
>
> All cars are air cooled, what do you think that fan at the front
> does?
>

Car engines are WATER cooled. The fan addresses a WATER Filled
radiator, you retarded putz.

There are a few models of air cooled engines that were used in
cars, but not many. VW, then Porsche (VW owned) and the US had the
Corvair, but that had a VERY short lifespan.

Essentially you are STILL being one stupid fucking troll.

torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 01.27.18 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
> Clifford Heath <no....@please.net> wrote in
> news:16e7243ae6ab4d09$1$1100196$26dd...@news.thecubenet.com:
>
> > On 18/4/22 1:49 am, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org
> > wrote:
> >> I always wanted to make an entire PC immersed in dielectric
> >> fluid
> >> <https://econtroldevices.com/shop/3m-fc-40-fluorinert-electronic-
> >> liquid-20kg/>
> >>
> >> But it too has to be moving to carry the heat away.
> >
> > I read that the Cray supercomputers were flooded in liquid Freon,
> > pumped through - 100kW of cooling to remove 100kW of heating.
> >
> > Clifford Heath
> >
>
> And then they banned freon. I am sure the refrigerants now used
> would be good too though.
>

Freon is a brandname, there is many different types

https://www.freon.com/en/products/refrigerants

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:50ac279e-89b5-44b5-9faf-057a89cf4296n@googlegroups.com:

> torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 00.12.14 UTC+2 skrev
> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
>> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in
>> news:op.1kucb...@ryzen.lan:
>>
>> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:58:13 +0100, bitrex <us...@example.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>> >>
>> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>> >>
>> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
>> >
>> > How does that even work? The bit at the end of each one where
>> > it magically bends up to the vertical.
>> >
>>
>> Copper "work hardens" and such a bend would create
>> micro-fractures right at the bend joint.
>
> only if you try to bend it back, annealed copper is dead soft only
> gets hard once you have bend it
>

I guess you are not very observant. The bend happens at the end of
each skiving, and the speed of the bending is what causes the
IMMEDIATE 'work hardening' and no, "bending it back" is not required.
The solid matrix of copper atoms shears and micro-fractures occur
immediately. Regardless of the fact that you are too inexperienced
to understand the process. Your precious "full annealing" disappears
right at the bend and does so immediately. Copper is one of the
worst mediums for it too.

The military are fully versed in these properties.
They also know about things like gold inter-metallic embrittlement.

Copper bends are properly made in a very slow motion. I have used
large copper bars to make grounding system, etc. And slow bending is
a priority. Very slow bending.

torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 01.48.35 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote in
> news:50ac279e-89b5-44b5...@googlegroups.com:
> > torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 00.12.14 UTC+2 skrev
> > DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
> >> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in
> >> news:op.1kucb...@ryzen.lan:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:58:13 +0100, bitrex <us...@example.net>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
> >> >>
> >> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
> >> >>
> >> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
> >> >
> >> > How does that even work? The bit at the end of each one where
> >> > it magically bends up to the vertical.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Copper "work hardens" and such a bend would create
> >> micro-fractures right at the bend joint.
> >
> > only if you try to bend it back, annealed copper is dead soft only
> > gets hard once you have bend it
> >
> I guess you are not very observant. The bend happens at the end of
> each skiving, and the speed of the bending is what causes the
> IMMEDIATE 'work hardening' and no, "bending it back" is not required.
> The solid matrix of copper atoms shears and micro-fractures occur
> immediately. Regardless of the fact that you are too inexperienced
> to understand the process. Your precious "full annealing" disappears
> right at the bend and does so immediately. Copper is one of the
> worst mediums for it too.

good thing we don't use copper pipes or wires then ...

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:f160e4ba-9472-4a59-909e-6ede7f9346cdn@googlegroups.com:

> torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 01.27.18 UTC+2 skrev
> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
>> Clifford Heath <no....@please.net> wrote in
>> news:16e7243ae6ab4d09$1$1100196$26dd...@news.thecubenet.com:
>>
>> > On 18/4/22 1:49 am, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org
>> > wrote:
>> >> I always wanted to make an entire PC immersed in dielectric
>> >> fluid
>> >> <https://econtroldevices.com/shop/3m-fc-40-fluorinert-electroni
>> >> c- liquid-20kg/>
>> >>
>> >> But it too has to be moving to carry the heat away.
>> >
>> > I read that the Cray supercomputers were flooded in liquid
>> > Freon, pumped through - 100kW of cooling to remove 100kW of
>> > heating.
>> >
>> > Clifford Heath
>> >
>>
>> And then they banned freon. I am sure the refrigerants now used
>> would be good too though.
>>
>
> Freon is a brandname, there is many different types
>
> https://www.freon.com/en/products/refrigerants
>
I used to make environmental chambers. The company dumped a
hundred pounds a day before the ban. I know what a Chemours brand
name is and what the industry uses as a blanket term as well.
We made table top dual stage chambers that could go to -150C and
chambers big enough to place an entire missile into and chambers that
had both hot and cold sides and a transition door between to thermal
shock test PCB assemblies under power. I really don't need a primer
on refrigerants or the transition to the new ones. Which they refer
to as "Puron" these days. But thanks.

On 4/20/2022 7:54 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 01.48.35 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote in
>> news:50ac279e-89b5-44b5...@googlegroups.com:
>>> torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 00.12.14 UTC+2 skrev
>>> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
>>>> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in
>>>> news:op.1kucb...@ryzen.lan:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:58:13 +0100, bitrex <us...@example.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like carving a turkey dinner
>>>>>
>>>>> How does that even work? The bit at the end of each one where
>>>>> it magically bends up to the vertical.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Copper "work hardens" and such a bend would create
>>>> micro-fractures right at the bend joint.
>>>
>>> only if you try to bend it back, annealed copper is dead soft only
>>> gets hard once you have bend it
>>>
>> I guess you are not very observant. The bend happens at the end of
>> each skiving, and the speed of the bending is what causes the
>> IMMEDIATE 'work hardening' and no, "bending it back" is not required.
>> The solid matrix of copper atoms shears and micro-fractures occur
>> immediately. Regardless of the fact that you are too inexperienced
>> to understand the process. Your precious "full annealing" disappears
>> right at the bend and does so immediately. Copper is one of the
>> worst mediums for it too.
>
> good thing we don't use copper pipes or wires then ...

They do copper sinks this way also:

<https://youtu.be/Q7qVpWu2QYs>

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> onsdag den 20. april 2022 kl. 23.29.25 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:
>> > Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> > > Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins
>> > > and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is
>> > > it just to make it look pretty?
>> > Good question. For decades now, Intel retailed bi-metallic CPU coolers
>> > with copper baseplates and aluminum fins:
>> >
>> > https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/bottom.png
>> > https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/top.png
>> >
>> > The coolers shown above are intended for use in a "beige box." The
>> > cooler fan on top of the copper core and the CPU beneath it obscure all
>> > aesthetic aspects.
>> > Perhaps the copper provides superior thermal conductivity while the
>> > aluminum offers greater mechanical strength?
>> I don't think copper is not strong enough for a heat sink, but it's
>> freaking heavy compared to aluminum. You can only bolt so much weight
>> onto these boards before it causes problems. The copper base is great
>> for spreading the heat out to the fins, but the fins don't need to be
>> so highly conductive to carry their portion of the heat and couple it
>> to the air.
>>
> https://youtu.be/Q7qVpWu2QYs
>
> but as you say, once the heat has been spread over a larger area there
> is probably not much benefit from expensive copper

Here's a solid copper server cooler shown next to a light-weight desktop
bi-metallic:

https://crcomp.net/misc/heatsink/serverdesktop.png

The copper cooler weighs 989 g versus 256 g for the bi-metallic. The
metal standoffs of the heavier cooler are designed to pass through over-
sized motherboard holes and bolt directly to a server chassis. The
lighter aluminum cooler uses plastic standoffs to secure itself directly
to a desktop motherboard instead.
Both copper and aluminum fins feel firm to the touch.

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:14:36 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
> On 18/4/22 3:45 am, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> > jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
> > news:thfo5ht952906bo98...@4ax.com:
> >
> >> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:10:41 -0700,
> >> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:55:21 -0000 (UTC),
> >>> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>> news:3f3e0e0f-175e-4d27...@googlegroups.com:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The large surface area of the long, skinny fins are perfect
> >>>>> coupling between the low thermal resistance of the heat sink
> >>>>> and the relatively high thermal conductivity of the fin/air
> >>>>> contact.
> >>>>
> >>>> The word(s) for today is "boundary layer".
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.heatsinkcalculator.com/blog/wp-
> >>>> content/uploads/2016/05/effect_of_boundary_laher_thickness.png>
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.heatsinkcalculator.com/blog/top-3-mistakes-made-when-
> >>>> selecting-a-heat-sink/>
> >>>>
> >>>> Slow air would pass right over a close fin spaced sink. High
> >>>> speed
> >>>> forced air is required when the fins get that closely spaced.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Right. Viscous drag will keep air from flowing between tall,
> >>> closely spaced fins. It will have to be ducted and forced, or it
> >>> will go around.
> >>>
> >>> The limiting case, more and more denser and thinner fins,
> >>> volumetric air flow will approach zero.
> >>>
> >>> My general rule is that a heat sink should reduce the native air
> >>> flow by about half. Neither zero nor 100% does any cooling.
> >>
> >> And of course, the tips of tall thin fins have a high thermal
> >> resistance to the baseplate, so run at about inlet air temp, so
> >> restrict air flow without contributing much coolong. My 50% number
> >> is useless if the air flow is restricted without corresponding
> >> cooling.
> >>
> >> There is no limit to how bad a heat sink you can design. A solid
> >> aluminum brick is pretty bad.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I even saw some where they slice up each fin into little fingers
> > and the sink was "bristling" with them. Probably pretty good, but
> > again, the air movement over and through them is required. Air flow
> > means nothing if it does not intertwine with the heated elements to
> > get hot and then be carried off as more air is added to be heated and
> > moved. It's a bucket brigade.
>
> I'm surprised they don't skive using a wavy cutter. It seems you could
> easily add turbulence to the air to get better cooling with bigger fin
> spacing (fewer fins).

https://youtu.be/ghrjJ1OL6jM?t=21

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote in
news:36df6057-1e26-47a2-90e4-501925414d3fn@googlegroups.com:

> torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 01.48.35 UTC+2 skrev
> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote in
>> news:50ac279e-89b5-44b5...@googlegroups.com:
>> > torsdag den 21. april 2022 kl. 00.12.14 UTC+2 skrev
>> > DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:
>> >> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in
>> >> news:op.1kucb...@ryzen.lan:
>> >>
>> >> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:58:13 +0100, bitrex
>> >> > <us...@example.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Like carving a turkey dinner
>> >> >
>> >> > How does that even work? The bit at the end of each one
>> >> > where it magically bends up to the vertical.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Copper "work hardens" and such a bend would create
>> >> micro-fractures right at the bend joint.
>> >
>> > only if you try to bend it back, annealed copper is dead soft
>> > only gets hard once you have bend it
>> >
>> I guess you are not very observant. The bend happens at the end
>> of each skiving, and the speed of the bending is what causes the
>> IMMEDIATE 'work hardening' and no, "bending it back" is not
>> required. The solid matrix of copper atoms shears and
>> micro-fractures occur immediately. Regardless of the fact that
>> you are too inexperienced to understand the process. Your
>> precious "full annealing" disappears right at the bend and does
>> so immediately. Copper is one of the worst mediums for it too.
>
> good thing we don't use copper pipes or wires then ...
>

They too fracture and that is why copper pipe runs for plumbing are
done with straight sections and then "elbows" and such are used to
make turns. Soft copper comes in rolls but get straightened for
installation and many runs And does not lend to being bent much as
the diameter collapses and flow suffers.

Wiring is similar inasmuch as nobody makes hard turns in wiring
runs, and the little loops made at the ends for termination should be
made in a slow fashion to minimize the effect of 'work hardening'.
It is in fact taught in a proper electrical wiring / electrician's
class.

Sarcasm can be funny, but not so bright sarcasm, not so much.

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:50:48 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:52:28 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:42:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-04-17 16:49, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:31:52 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-04-17 00:23, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>>>>>>> <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like carving a turkey dinner
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Skiving is real slow. The only value is you get thinner fins than can be
>>>>>>>> extruded. More machining is needed if you want holes though any of that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those long skinny fins don't look efficient to me. And they would need
>>>>>>> a huge air blast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think so: a strong air blast would bend the fins.
>>>>>
>>>>> That strong would destroy the enclosure and kill bystanders.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think so, those fins are almost paper thin.
>>>
>>> So they'd be almost destroyed.
>>
>> There are data sheets for heat sinks. I suspect they include
>> dimensions. You know, numbers.
>
> Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is it just to make it look pretty?

copper is a much better heat conductor than Al. It also costs more and
weighs more. In the processor world, you have to transfer the heat from
the relatively small surface of the procesor to the rest of the heatsink
in addition to transferring the heat to the air. So you'll see heatsinks
made of multiple metals. Everything is always a trade-off, somewhere.

All copper heatsinks are surpringly heavy, and still don't conduct heat
as well as good heat pipe, so you'll see heatpipes in some heatsinks even
where there is no need to move the heat somewhere else due to space
constraints, like in a laptop.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 19:31:19 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:50:48 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:52:28 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>>> <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:42:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-04-17 16:49, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:31:52 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-04-17 00:23, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>>>>>>>> <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I thought they were extruded, but no!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/wwWIyHo3yJM>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Like carving a turkey dinner
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Skiving is real slow. The only value is you get thinner fins than can be
>>>>>>>>> extruded. More machining is needed if you want holes though any of that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those long skinny fins don't look efficient to me. And they would need
>>>>>>>> a huge air blast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think so: a strong air blast would bend the fins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That strong would destroy the enclosure and kill bystanders.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think so, those fins are almost paper thin.
>>>>
>>>> So they'd be almost destroyed.
>>>
>>> There are data sheets for heat sinks. I suspect they include
>>> dimensions. You know, numbers.
>>
>> Since you know so much about them, why does mine have some copper fins and some aluminium? Surely either one or the other is better? Or is it just to make it look pretty?
>
> copper is a much better heat conductor than Al. It also costs more and
> weighs more. In the processor world, you have to transfer the heat from
> the relatively small surface of the procesor to the rest of the heatsink
> in addition to transferring the heat to the air. So you'll see heatsinks
> made of multiple metals. Everything is always a trade-off, somewhere.
>
> All copper heatsinks are surpringly heavy, and still don't conduct heat
> as well as good heat pipe, so you'll see heatpipes in some heatsinks even
> where there is no need to move the heat somewhere else due to space
> constraints, like in a laptop.

Ah! Thankyou. I thought they were just making it look pretty as a marketing gimmick, my faith has been restored in science. Makes sense - I've only ever seen dual metals on big heavy ones.