I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.

There is no bike lane.

I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.

I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.

I thought that was somewhat humorous.

On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.

I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.

It scared the she_ite out of me.

Take care,
Andy

On 1/8/2024 6:27 PM, AK wrote:
> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>
> There is no bike lane.
>
> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>
> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>
> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>
> On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.
>
> I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.
>
> It scared the she_ite out of me.
>
> Take care,
> Andy
>
>

Sounds justified to me, or at least consideration of the
next route parallel. Don't know if you are in snow country
but snow/ice makes marginally competent auto drivers into
random-movement blunt objects of a few thousand pounds each.
Add in speed and lane widths and another route sounds like
something to pursue.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/8/2024 7:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 6:27 PM, AK wrote:
>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>
>> There is no bike lane.
>>
>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>
>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of
>> riding on that road was justified.
>>
>>   I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>
>> On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane
>> about 3 feet.
>>
>> I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.
>>
>> It scared the she_ite out of me.
>>
>> Take care,
>>                   Andy
>>
>>
>
> Sounds justified to me, or at least consideration of the next route
> parallel. Don't know if you are in snow country but snow/ice makes
> marginally competent auto drivers into random-movement blunt objects of
> a few thousand pounds each. Add in speed and lane widths and another
> route sounds like something to pursue.

Around here 60 mph roads are not common; but many rural roads have 55
mph speed limits. They're not usually my preferred roads, but I do ride
them with no particular problems. I ride them mostly when traffic is light.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>
>There is no bike lane.
>
>I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>
>I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>
> I thought that was somewhat humorous.

I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
that lurk in many bicycle forums.

>On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.
>
>I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.
>
>It scared the she_ite out of me.
>
>Take care,
> Andy
>

Am Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) schrieb AK
<scientist77017@gmail.com>:

>I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.

This one has a similar speed limit. My wife and I like to ride there and
do that often, during summer. In early April last year it was quite
cold, though.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20230409/DSC02217.jpg>

Actually this road has no expicit speed limit, so it has an implicit
limit of 100 km/h (62 mph). The following video (speed up factor 20)
shows me riding there, over land between two villages, at an average
speed sligtly less than 20 mph.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/20210710/L113_2Flerzheim.mp4>

>
>There is no bike lane.

Great! So you aren't forced to ride on dreck accumulating there. (dreck
being the German term for dirt)

>
>I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.

I do. The valley we are living in (Rhine valley) is rather flat, many
people like to ride along the river. We don't. I prefer to ride into the
nearby hilly Eifel terrain.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eifel>

The following is a 3D map of bike rides I did from home last year.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20240101/cycling2023.jpg>

>
>I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany
> asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.

Could have been me. :-)

>
> I thought that was somewhat humorous.

Funny thought, that.

>
>On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.

So you avoid driving your car on roads with such a speed limit ever
since? How do you get around, then?

>
>I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.

Hopefully you reported the driver of that truck?

>
>It scared the she_ite out of me.

Sure. A similar thing happended to us in when driving our car in the
south of France, two years ago. A large concrete mixer tailgated our car
with a distance less than one meter at about 80 km/h (speed limit in
France outside of villages), even into the village, where a speed limit
of 50 km/h applies. Scary. I fled into a side street. Unfortunately, I
couldn't see the licence plate due to the distance.

Never experienced something similar while riding our bikes.

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org>:

>On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>
>>There is no bike lane.
>>
>>I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>
>>I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>
>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>
>I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
>was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
>that lurk in many bicycle forums.

What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
people fools?

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
<news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:

>Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
><Soloman@old.bikers.org>:
>
>>On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>
>>>There is no bike lane.
>>>
>>>I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>>
>>>I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>>
>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>
>>I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
>>was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
>>that lurk in many bicycle forums.
>
>What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
>people fools?

I never question anyone's preferences providing they are legal and
ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any qualifications to call
someone a fool.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 7:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/8/2024 6:27 PM, AK wrote:
>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>
>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>
>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>>
>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of
>>> riding on that road was justified.
>>>
>>>   I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>>
>>> On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane
>>> about 3 feet.
>>>
>>> I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.
>>>
>>> It scared the she_ite out of me.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>>                   Andy
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sounds justified to me, or at least consideration of the next route
>> parallel. Don't know if you are in snow country but snow/ice makes
>> marginally competent auto drivers into random-movement blunt objects of
>> a few thousand pounds each. Add in speed and lane widths and another
>> route sounds like something to pursue.
>
> Around here 60 mph roads are not common; but many rural roads have 55
> mph speed limits. They're not usually my preferred roads, but I do ride
> them with no particular problems. I ride them mostly when traffic is light.
>

I’d assume it’s less the speed limit more the multi lane aspect of the
road?

Not sure about America but I assume that plenty of lanes and so on will
have 60mph or thereabouts speed limits? You’d be unlikely to hit more than
30/40mph even at night with better visibility!

Roger Merriman

Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
> Am Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) schrieb AK
> <scientist77017@gmail.com>:
>
>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>
> This one has a similar speed limit. My wife and I like to ride there and
> do that often, during summer. In early April last year it was quite
> cold, though.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20230409/DSC02217.jpg>
>
> Actually this road has no expicit speed limit, so it has an implicit
> limit of 100 km/h (62 mph). The following video (speed up factor 20)
> shows me riding there, over land between two villages, at an average
> speed sligtly less than 20 mph.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/20210710/L113_2Flerzheim.mp4>
>
I assume that AK road is multi lane type of road which would vary from
absolutely fine to fairly horrible!
>
>>
>> There is no bike lane.
>
> Great! So you aren't forced to ride on dreck accumulating there. (dreck
> being the German term for dirt)
>
I do notice that the only section on my old cycleway that collects much
debris and glass is over a flyover where your only separation by the kerb
so get bits of glass and plastic from cars, the rest of it that runs
parallel to the road is a few feet away and protected by a grass verge with
trees.

So realistically on that section it’s more leaf litter which on such a long
flat straight cycleway isn’t a issue gets a bit narrow in autumn shortly
before being periodically cleaned which is done 3/4 times a year.

The more modern and busy cycleways are cleaned quite frequently either by
brush and cart or with the wee van things that are used for footpath and
similar.

Though most of those have enough separation to be mostly or wholly out of
the spray zone from traffic.
>>
>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>
> I do. The valley we are living in (Rhine valley) is rather flat, many
> people like to ride along the river. We don't. I prefer to ride into the
> nearby hilly Eifel terrain.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eifel>
>
> The following is a 3D map of bike rides I did from home last year.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20240101/cycling2023.jpg>
>
>
I equally like hills I generally find flat fairly boring! I’m fond of steep
and technical off road climbs which are more that just heart lungs but
brain ie take the right line!
>
>>
>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany
>> asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>
> Could have been me. :-)
>
>>
>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>
> Funny thought, that.
>
>>
>> On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.
>
> So you avoid driving your car on roads with such a speed limit ever
> since? How do you get around, then?
>
>
>>
>> I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.
>
> Hopefully you reported the driver of that truck?
>
>>
>> It scared the she_ite out of me.
>
> Sure. A similar thing happended to us in when driving our car in the
> south of France, two years ago. A large concrete mixer tailgated our car
> with a distance less than one meter at about 80 km/h (speed limit in
> France outside of villages), even into the village, where a speed limit
> of 50 km/h applies. Scary. I fled into a side street. Unfortunately, I
> couldn't see the licence plate due to the distance.
>
> Never experienced something similar while riding our bikes.
>

Roger Merriman

On 1/9/2024 5:28 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>
>> Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org>:
>>
>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>>
>>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>>
>>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>>>
>>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>>>
>>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>>
>>> I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
>>> was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
>>> that lurk in many bicycle forums.
>>
>> What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
>> people fools?
>
> I never question anyone's preferences providing they are legal and
> ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any qualifications to call
> someone a fool.

Actually Wolfgang, kitty the floriduh dumbass is the one that should be
ignored here. You'll note with his 4th grade reading comprehension he
neglected to note that AK solicited advice from a public bike forum, and
yet he's counseling AK to deride the people offering opinions to that
solicitation.

It may be helpful to consider that this is a largely based US forum, and
as Andrew Muzi recently quipped "Your average USAian is neither very
well informed nor very bright, analytically speaking as they have no
background nor memory." Kitty the floriduh dumbass falls solidly into
the center of that bell curve.

--
Add xx to reply

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 09:26:56 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/9/2024 5:28 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
>> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org>:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>>>
>>>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>>>>
>>>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
>>>> was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
>>>> that lurk in many bicycle forums.
>>>
>>> What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
>>> people fools?
>>
>> I never question anyone's preferences providing they are legal and
>> ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any qualifications to call
>> someone a fool.
>
>Actually Wolfgang, kitty the floriduh dumbass is the one that should be
>ignored here. You'll note with his 4th grade reading comprehension he
>neglected to note that AK solicited advice from a public bike forum, and
>yet he's counseling AK to deride the people offering opinions to that
>solicitation.

There was no indication that he had solicited advice. Apparently,
with *his* 4th grade reading comprehension, Junior "read" more than
was there.

>It may be helpful to consider that this is a largely based US forum, and
>as Andrew Muzi recently quipped "Your average USAian is neither very
>well informed nor very bright, analytically speaking as they have no
>background nor memory." Kitty the floriduh dumbass falls solidly into
>the center of that bell curve.

On 1/9/2024 8:26 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 1/9/2024 5:28 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
>> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org>:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK
>>>> <scientist77017@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>>>
>>>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many
>>>>> hills.
>>>>>
>>>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany
>>>>> asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently
>>>> thought he/she
>>>> was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately,
>>>> such fools as
>>>> that lurk in many bicycle forums.
>>>
>>> What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask.
>>> Or calling
>>> people fools?
>>
>> I never question anyone's preferences providing they are
>> legal and
>> ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any
>> qualifications to call
>> someone a fool.
>
> Actually Wolfgang, kitty the floriduh dumbass is the one
> that should be ignored here. You'll note with his 4th grade
> reading comprehension he neglected to note that AK solicited
> advice from a public bike forum, and yet he's counseling AK
> to deride the people offering opinions to that solicitation.
>
> It may be helpful to consider that this is a largely based
> US forum, and as Andrew Muzi recently quipped "Your average
> USAian is neither very well informed nor very bright,
> analytically speaking as they have no background nor
> memory." Kitty the floriduh dumbass falls solidly into the
> center of that bell curve.
>

I'm not the first guy to notice.
Bright informed USAians are also plentiful, just not enough
of them.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/9/2024 4:52 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) schrieb AK
> <scientist77017@gmail.com>:
>
>>
>> On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.
>
> So you avoid driving your car on roads with such a speed limit ever
> since? How do you get around, then?

Good point!

About two weeks ago I had my nearest ever miss of a moving on-road
collision. I was driving my car to a bike club committee meeting, going
about 30 mph through a traffic light that had been green for at least 15
seconds. I was into the intersection before I noticed a Ford sedan
blasting through his red light from my left. I assume the driver was
impaired or badly distracted. There was nothing I could do but hit the
accelerator. I saw his car miss my left rear fender by no more than
three feet.

I have not given up driving as a result. Neither has my friend, whose
car was totaled a couple years ago by a woman whose car ran into her. I
do look a little more carefully when driving through intersections, but
I suspect I'll forget that habit fairly soon.

> Sure. A similar thing happended to us in when driving our car in the
> south of France, two years ago. A large concrete mixer tailgated our car
> with a distance less than one meter at about 80 km/h (speed limit in
> France outside of villages), even into the village, where a speed limit
> of 50 km/h applies. Scary. I fled into a side street. Unfortunately, I
> couldn't see the licence plate due to the distance.

I detest tailgaters. I generally tap the brake lights three times as a
warning. Then, if they don't back off, I generally begin slowing down.
This gives me ability to brake more slowly if anything does happen up
front. More important, it guarantees the tailgater doesn't benefit from
his assholery.

> Never experienced something similar while riding our bikes.

Actually, I have, although very rarely. I remember one occasion where we
were on our tandem in a 25 mph no passing zone, and a driver behind us
tailgated and blew his horn. I told my wife to turn around and loudly
read his license plate number, which she did several times. He backed
off until there was room to pass.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/9/2024 8:04 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>> Am Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) schrieb AK
>> <scientist77017@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> There is no bike lane.
>>
>> Great! So you aren't forced to ride on dreck accumulating there. (dreck
>> being the German term for dirt)
>>
> I do notice that the only section on my old cycleway that collects much
> debris and glass is over a flyover where your only separation by the kerb
> so get bits of glass and plastic from cars, the rest of it that runs
> parallel to the road is a few feet away and protected by a grass verge with
> trees.
>
> So realistically on that section it’s more leaf litter which on such a long
> flat straight cycleway isn’t a issue gets a bit narrow in autumn shortly
> before being periodically cleaned which is done 3/4 times a year.
>
> The more modern and busy cycleways are cleaned quite frequently either by
> brush and cart or with the wee van things that are used for footpath and
> similar.

I'm a bit jealous about diligence in cleaning bike facilities where you
ride. It's a completely different story here - with "here" being almost
everyplace I've ridden in the U.S.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/9/2024 7:42 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> Around here 60 mph roads are not common; but many rural roads have 55
>> mph speed limits. They're not usually my preferred roads, but I do ride
>> them with no particular problems. I ride them mostly when traffic is light.
>>
>
> I’d assume it’s less the speed limit more the multi lane aspect of the
> road?

The roads I had in mind are just two lanes - that is, one lane in each
direction.

Multi-lane roads actually work better, especially if traffic is less
than peak. When I ride _very_ prominently away from the curb, motorists
in the curb lane tend to notice me from far back. They have plenty of
time to merge into the next lane and almost always do that with no hassle.

But my normal riding puts me only occasionally on one four-lane 55 mph
road. I do prefer quieter roads, if only for the aesthetics.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/9/2024 8:04 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Wolfgang Strobl <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>> Am Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) schrieb AK
>>> <scientist77017@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>
>>> Great! So you aren't forced to ride on dreck accumulating there. (dreck
>>> being the German term for dirt)
>>>
>> I do notice that the only section on my old cycleway that collects much
>> debris and glass is over a flyover where your only separation by the kerb
>> so get bits of glass and plastic from cars, the rest of it that runs
>> parallel to the road is a few feet away and protected by a grass verge with
>> trees.
>>
>> So realistically on that section it’s more leaf litter which on such a long
>> flat straight cycleway isn’t a issue gets a bit narrow in autumn shortly
>> before being periodically cleaned which is done 3/4 times a year.
>>
>> The more modern and busy cycleways are cleaned quite frequently either by
>> brush and cart or with the wee van things that are used for footpath and
>> similar.
>
> I'm a bit jealous about diligence in cleaning bike facilities where you
> ride. It's a completely different story here - with "here" being almost
> everyplace I've ridden in the U.S.
>
While foot/cycle traffic doesn’t produce much to be honest get a fair bit
of leaf litter, though the few on the commute are probably only done every
1/4, but they are low traffic, even if the road it’s self isn’t.

Others in busier places ie with a much higher footfall/cycle get much more
frequent cleaning and on the spot clear ups.

London due to its size and so on does have a good set for such things. And
realistically street/road cleaning is one of those design to fail similar
to painting some white lines it’s a token effort.

This said in my experience segregated cycleways don’t need much as
bikes/foot don’t produce much it’s motor traffic that does, though town
centres clearly do particularly around food and drink type places. Though
councils absolutely do have powers to fine restaurants who’s clients
litter, and since they also hold the ability to remove their license hence
number of big name firm’s employees do litter collections around the
restaurants and so on.

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/9/2024 7:42 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Around here 60 mph roads are not common; but many rural roads have 55
>>> mph speed limits. They're not usually my preferred roads, but I do ride
>>> them with no particular problems. I ride them mostly when traffic is light.
>>>
>>
>> I’d assume it’s less the speed limit more the multi lane aspect of the
>> road?
>
> The roads I had in mind are just two lanes - that is, one lane in each
> direction.

Be a rare for that sort of road to concern me realistically are some I
don’t find particularly appealing some around Windsor fit into that
category!
>
> Multi-lane roads actually work better, especially if traffic is less
> than peak. When I ride _very_ prominently away from the curb, motorists
> in the curb lane tend to notice me from far back. They have plenty of
> time to merge into the next lane and almost always do that with no hassle.
>
> But my normal riding puts me only occasionally on one four-lane 55 mph
> road. I do prefer quieter roads, if only for the aesthetics.
>
I have ridden on such roads but realistically generally no reason to do so,
be that pleasure or logistics ie generally such roads are bypassing some
town or so on, so the older road will exist which will be more direct and
less annoying. The old cycleway running through and parallel to the bypass
is an outlier in that it happens to be direct for most people it’s the long
way around.

Roger Merriman

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 1:53:46 AM UTC-8, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) schrieb AK
> <scienti...@gmail.com>:
> >I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
> This one has a similar speed limit. My wife and I like to ride there and
> do that often, during summer. In early April last year it was quite
> cold, though.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20230409/DSC02217.jpg>
>
> Actually this road has no expicit speed limit, so it has an implicit
> limit of 100 km/h (62 mph). The following video (speed up factor 20)
> shows me riding there, over land between two villages, at an average
> speed sligtly less than 20 mph.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/20210710/L113_2Flerzheim.mp4>
> >
> >There is no bike lane.
> Great! So you aren't forced to ride on dreck accumulating there. (dreck
> being the German term for dirt)
> >
> >I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
> I do. The valley we are living in (Rhine valley) is rather flat, many
> people like to ride along the river. We don't. I prefer to ride into the
> nearby hilly Eifel terrain.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eifel>
>
> The following is a 3D map of bike rides I did from home last year.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20240101/cycling2023.jpg>
> >
> >I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany
> > asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
> Could have been me. :-)
> >
> > I thought that was somewhat humorous.
> Funny thought, that.
> >
> >On that same road, while driving my car, a truck veered into my lane about 3 feet.
> So you avoid driving your car on roads with such a speed limit ever
> since? How do you get around, then?
> >
> >I have tires with good thread and avoided a collision.
> Hopefully you reported the driver of that truck?
> >
> >It scared the she_ite out of me.
> Sure. A similar thing happended to us in when driving our car in the
> south of France, two years ago. A large concrete mixer tailgated our car
> with a distance less than one meter at about 80 km/h (speed limit in
> France outside of villages), even into the village, where a speed limit
> of 50 km/h applies. Scary. I fled into a side street. Unfortunately, I
> couldn't see the licence plate due to the distance.
>
> Never experienced something similar while riding our bikes.
>
> --
> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
Here we have a road that crosses the hills into the Livermore Valley. It's about a 500 foot single climb but it is preceded by a couple of climbs that are steeper and make the round trip about 2,400 feet, It is right next to a freeway that has slow traffic for about 2 miles and then 65 mph limit on which everyone drives 75. So of course everyone turns off of the high speed road and drives 75 on the two lane bidirectional road. At least we have a good bike lane when people decide to honor it. But being winter they are more xconcerned about seeing their brightly marked road than obeying traffic laws.

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 7:15:15 AM UTC-8, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 09:26:56 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On 1/9/2024 5:28 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> >> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
> >> <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
> >>> <Sol...@old.bikers.org>:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scienti...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is no bike lane.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
> >>>> was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
> >>>> that lurk in many bicycle forums.
> >>>
> >>> What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
> >>> people fools?
> >>
> >> I never question anyone's preferences providing they are legal and
> >> ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any qualifications to call
> >> someone a fool.
> >
> >Actually Wolfgang, kitty the floriduh dumbass is the one that should be
> >ignored here. You'll note with his 4th grade reading comprehension he
> >neglected to note that AK solicited advice from a public bike forum, and
> >yet he's counseling AK to deride the people offering opinions to that
> >solicitation.
> There was no indication that he had solicited advice. Apparently,
> with *his* 4th grade reading comprehension, Junior "read" more than
> was there.
> >It may be helpful to consider that this is a largely based US forum, and
> >as Andrew Muzi recently quipped "Your average USAian is neither very
> >well informed nor very bright, analytically speaking as they have no
> >background nor memory." Kitty the floriduh dumbass falls solidly into
> >the center of that bell curve.
You have to expect things like that from someone whose job it is to play on the internet during working hours.

On 1/9/2024 10:15 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 09:26:56 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/9/2024 5:28 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
>>> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scientist77017@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
>>>>> was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
>>>>> that lurk in many bicycle forums.
>>>>
>>>> What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
>>>> people fools?
>>>
>>> I never question anyone's preferences providing they are legal and
>>> ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any qualifications to call
>>> someone a fool.
>>
>> Actually Wolfgang, kitty the floriduh dumbass is the one that should be
>> ignored here. You'll note with his 4th grade reading comprehension he
>> neglected to note that AK solicited advice from a public bike forum, and
>> yet he's counseling AK to deride the people offering opinions to that
>> solicitation.
>
> There was no indication that he had solicited advice. Apparently,
> with *his* 4th grade reading comprehension, Junior "read" more than
> was there.

I stand corrected. I read "a person from Germany asked" as "asked a
person from Germany", my bad.

This still doesn't take away from the fact that you're a willfully
ignorant dumbass.

--
Add xx to reply

On 1/9/2024 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 7:15:15 AM UTC-8, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 09:26:56 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2024 5:28 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:58:52 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
>>>> <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am Tue, 09 Jan 2024 03:55:51 -0500 schrieb Catrike Ryder
>>>>> <Sol...@old.bikers.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 16:27:42 -0800 (PST), AK <scienti...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I live on a road with a speed limit of 60 mph.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no bike lane.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I chose not to ride my bicycle on a road that has many hills.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I posted on a bike forum and a person from Germany asked if my fear of riding on that road was justified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought that was somewhat humorous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you openly laughed at the jerk who apparently thought he/she
>>>>>> was qualified to question your decisions. Unfortunately, such fools as
>>>>>> that lurk in many bicycle forums.
>>>>>
>>>>> What qualifies you to question my preferences, I may ask. Or calling
>>>>> people fools?
>>>>
>>>> I never question anyone's preferences providing they are legal and
>>>> ethical. On the other hand, nobody needs any qualifications to call
>>>> someone a fool.
>>>
>>> Actually Wolfgang, kitty the floriduh dumbass is the one that should be
>>> ignored here. You'll note with his 4th grade reading comprehension he
>>> neglected to note that AK solicited advice from a public bike forum, and
>>> yet he's counseling AK to deride the people offering opinions to that
>>> solicitation.
>> There was no indication that he had solicited advice. Apparently,
>> with *his* 4th grade reading comprehension, Junior "read" more than
>> was there.
>>> It may be helpful to consider that this is a largely based US forum, and
>>> as Andrew Muzi recently quipped "Your average USAian is neither very
>>> well informed nor very bright, analytically speaking as they have no
>>> background nor memory." Kitty the floriduh dumbass falls solidly into
>>> the center of that bell curve.
> You have to expect things like that from someone whose job it is to play on the internet during working hours.

Yup, I get paid to surf the internet all day, I have a great job!

--
Add xx to reply

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 11:10:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Here we have a road that crosses the hills into the Livermore Valley. It's about a 500 foot single climb but it is preceded by a couple of climbs that are steeper and make the round trip about 2,400 feet, It is right next to a freeway that has slow traffic for about 2 miles and then 65 mph limit on which everyone drives 75. So of course everyone turns off of the high speed road and drives 75 on the two lane bidirectional road. At least we have a good bike lane when people decide to honor it. But being winter they are more xconcerned about seeing their brightly marked road than obeying traffic laws.

The Peoples Republic of California has enacted their solution to your
problem. Just lower the traffic limits. If traffic engineers can't
seem to reduce the traffic fatality rate during a pandemic, then the
politicians will implement their solution state wide. I'm not sure
how to calculate the increase in traffic congestion at or near the
speed limit for a 5 mph drop in what looks like every speed limit sign
in California. Also, any semblance to revenue enhancement from
additional speeding tickets is strictly coincidental.

"California’s New Speed Limit Law"
<https://walkbikecupertino.org/2023/12/californias-new-speed-limit-law-ab43/>

The next step will surely be a self-driving bicycle. Notice that it
can drive itself without a driver. Therefore, there can't be any
traffic fatalities when not riding one of these. Also notice that
it's a pedal powered bicycle, not an eBike.

"Self-driving bicycle developed by huawei engineers can operate
unmanned"
<https://www.designboom.com/technology/self-driving-bicycle-huawei-engineers-operate-unmanned-06-14-2021/>

Soon, everyone in RBT will be riding self-driving bicycles.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/9/2024 12:20 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> This said in my experience segregated cycleways don’t need much as
> bikes/foot don’t produce much it’s motor traffic that does, though town
> centres clearly do particularly around food and drink type places.

When I talk about sweeping debris from bike facilities, I'm not talking
about litter thrown around by people. The most common problem I see is
gravel, sometimes with broken glass mixed in, sometimes quite thick. In
autumn, the problem is leaves, which are slippery as ice when wet. In
winter, it's snow and ice.

On segregated facilities, there's less gravel and glass unless the
barriers are the now popular "candlestick" posts - which many advocates
now claim are inadequate, because they're not concrete. But I know
several people who were injured rather badly by slipping on slimy mud
washed onto totally segregated bike paths. And leaves and snow fall
everywhere including on sidewalks. Few jurisdictions here have the
machinery, or even the inclination, to clear those from non-motoring
surfaces.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/9/2024 12:20 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> This said in my experience segregated cycleways don’t need much as
>> bikes/foot don’t produce much it’s motor traffic that does, though town
>> centres clearly do particularly around food and drink type places.
>
> When I talk about sweeping debris from bike facilities, I'm not talking
> about litter thrown around by people. The most common problem I see is
> gravel, sometimes with broken glass mixed in, sometimes quite thick. In
> autumn, the problem is leaves, which are slippery as ice when wet. In
> winter, it's snow and ice.
>
Leaves absolutely are slippery but certainly not ice like, probably not
something to ride though on a narrow tired road bike admittedly but fine on
the commute bikes 50mm mildly treaded tires.

To built to that extent takes some doing even some of the battered old
lanes around my folks place that are fairly potholed don’t have gravel
banks as you where.

> On segregated facilities, there's less gravel and glass unless the
> barriers are the now popular "candlestick" posts - which many advocates
> now claim are inadequate, because they're not concrete. But I know
> several people who were injured rather badly by slipping on slimy mud
> washed onto totally segregated bike paths. And leaves and snow fall
> everywhere including on sidewalks. Few jurisdictions here have the
> machinery, or even the inclination, to clear those from non-motoring
> surfaces.
>
Presumably they do clean the pavement from time to time? If so man + cart
will cope with most segregated cycle lanes. Hardly going to bankrupt a city
yes london does have some bespoke kit for such stuff though I think they
were intended for footpaths and similar places that a larger vehicle could
not handle.

I’m not wild on wands myself but that’s because they give me vertigo,
equally I’m not wild on cycleways with parked cars between the cycleway and
the roadway though some places seem to make it work.

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/9/2024 7:42 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Around here 60 mph roads are not common; but many rural roads have 55
>>> mph speed limits. They're not usually my preferred roads, but I do ride
>>> them with no particular problems. I ride them mostly when traffic is
>>> light.
>>>
>>
>> I’d assume it’s less the speed limit more the multi lane aspect of the
>> road?
>
> The roads I had in mind are just two lanes - that is, one lane in each
> direction.
>
> Multi-lane roads actually work better, especially if traffic is less
> than peak. When I ride _very_ prominently away from the curb, motorists
> in the curb lane tend to notice me from far back. They have plenty of
> time to merge into the next lane and almost always do that with no hassle.
>
> But my normal riding puts me only occasionally on one four-lane 55 mph
> road. I do prefer quieter roads, if only for the aesthetics.
>

Where I am (flat and urban), most of mine are 4-lane (or sometimes
6-lane) with a dual-direction left turn in the middle. And major
cross-roads every mile. Most of the newer roads have bike lanes,
including striping that is good about emphasizing where cross traffic
between lanes is happening.

On the other hand, further out, roads may not be improved, especially
the ones that go past agricultural fields. That means rough pavement
(e.g., pot holes filled with a couple of shovelfuls of hot asphalt, and
barely tamped down), and gravel shoulders. A lot of those are 2-lane,
and where intersections are 4-way stops.

On the other hand, there are a few with 4 lanes. One in particular is
about a 2-mile stretch that's fairly heavily traveled. Most of our big
boulevards have posted 45 MPH speed limits, and I'm guessing that it's
the same there, but because it gets a lot of commuter traffic, most cars
are going at least 55. Although both ends of that section have been
improved to 6 lanes, this section has not yet been improved, because
local municipalities (a city limit goes down the middle of the road)
like to save money by letting developers pay for improvements. There is
light industrial that is going in along some of that stretch, but it
will likely be a couple of years before road improvements get made.

For that one, given the combination of a road with gravel shoulders,
rough pavement and fast traffic, I generally avoid that section,
especially during commuting hours.

Smith