On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 10:29:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> > Feeling shocked and sad. She was loved by everyone.
> >
> > I think the UK is feeling quite fragile right now.
> https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/2022-09-19/british-young-adults-are-hoping-for-change-as-king-charles-brings-forth-a-new-era

https://www.ucf.edu/news/what-does-queen-elizabeth-iis-death-mean-for-the-future-of-the-monarchy/

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 2:47:09 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 10:29:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > Feeling shocked and sad. She was loved by everyone.
> > >
> > > I think the UK is feeling quite fragile right now.
> > https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/2022-09-19/british-young-adults-are-hoping-for-change-as-king-charles-brings-forth-a-new-era
> https://www.ucf.edu/news/what-does-queen-elizabeth-iis-death-mean-for-the-future-of-the-monarchy/

Monarchies have no future. Sooner or later everyone
realizes they are nothing more than circus shows
subsidized by taxpayers. Sooner or later they are
abolished. Even the French managed to do this
in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?

dk

On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 2:47:09 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
>> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 10:29:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>>>> Feeling shocked and sad. She was loved by everyone.
>>>>
>>>> I think the UK is feeling quite fragile right now.
>>> https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/2022-09-19/british-young-adults-are-hoping-for-change-as-king-charles-brings-forth-a-new-era
>> https://www.ucf.edu/news/what-does-queen-elizabeth-iis-death-mean-for-the-future-of-the-monarchy/
>
> Monarchies have no future. Sooner or later everyone
> realizes they are nothing more than circus shows
> subsidized by taxpayers.

Is there a person in the UK or the Commonwealth for that matter that doesn't know this already?

Sooner or later they are
> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>
> dk

Because they like it.

On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 2:47:09 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 10:29:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>>>>> Feeling shocked and sad. She was loved by everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the UK is feeling quite fragile right now.
>>>> https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/2022-09-19/british-young-adults-are-hoping-for-change-as-king-charles-brings-forth-a-new-era
>>>>
>>> https://www.ucf.edu/news/what-does-queen-elizabeth-iis-death-mean-for-the-future-of-the-monarchy/
>>>
>>
>> Monarchies have no future. Sooner or later everyone
>> realizes they are nothing more than circus shows
>> subsidized by taxpayers.
>
> Is there a person in the UK or the Commonwealth for that matter that
> doesn't know this already?
>
>
> Sooner or later they are
>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>
>> dk
>
> Because they like it.
>
and the system works!

On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 2:47:09 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 10:29:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>>>>>> Feeling shocked and sad. She was loved by everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the UK is feeling quite fragile right now.
>>>>> https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/2022-09-19/british-young-adults-are-hoping-for-change-as-king-charles-brings-forth-a-new-era
>>>> https://www.ucf.edu/news/what-does-queen-elizabeth-iis-death-mean-for-the-future-of-the-monarchy/
>>>
>>> Monarchies have no future. Sooner or later everyone
>>> realizes they are nothing more than circus shows
>>> subsidized by taxpayers.
>>
>> Is there a person in the UK or the Commonwealth for that matter that doesn't know this already?
>>
>>
>> Sooner or later they are
>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>>
>>> dk
>>
>> Because they like it.
>>
> and the system works!

Do they like it because it works, or does it work because they like it.

Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
> > On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sooner or later they are
> >>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
> >>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
> >>
> >> Because they like it.
> >
> > and the system works!
> >
> Do they like it because it works,
> or does it work because they like it.
>
> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.

I object to the notion of some people
having more or different rights than
others. I furthermore object to the
notion such rights should or could
be based on birth or heredity.

Whether the Brits or anyone else
like it or not is immaterial to the
point I made. This is a medieval
concept no matter how one looks
at it. Time to step out of the caves,
folks!

dk

On 9/21/2022 10:39 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sooner or later they are
>>>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>>>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>>>
>>>> Because they like it.
>>>
>>> and the system works!
>>>
>> Do they like it because it works,
>> or does it work because they like it.
>>
>> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.
>
> I object to the notion of some people
> having more or different rights than
> others. I furthermore object to the
> notion such rights should or could
> be based on birth or heredity.
>
> Whether the Brits or anyone else
> like it or not is immaterial to the
> point I made. This is a medieval
> concept no matter how one looks
> at it. Time to step out of the caves,
> folks!
>
> dk

You are absolutely right. Have a glass of wine.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 8:27:18 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 10:39 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
> >>> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sooner or later they are
> >>>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
> >>>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
> >>>>
> >>>> Because they like it.
> >>>
> >>> and the system works!
> >>>
> >> Do they like it because it works,
> >> or does it work because they like it.
> >>
> >> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.
> >
> > I object to the notion of some people
> > having more or different rights than
> > others. I furthermore object to the
> > notion such rights should or could
> > be based on birth or heredity.
> >
> > Whether the Brits or anyone else
> > like it or not is immaterial to the
> > point I made. This is a medieval
> > concept no matter how one looks
> > at it. Time to step out of the caves,
> > folks!
>
> You are absolutely right. Have a
> glass of wine.

Am I allowed to take scotch instead?

dk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSUoGaxEKc4

On 2022-09-21 9:27 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 10:39 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sooner or later they are
>>>>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>>>>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because they like it.
>>>>
>>>> and the system works!
>>>>
>>> Do they like it because it works,
>>> or does it work because they like it.
>>>
>>> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.
>>
>> I object to the notion of some people
>> having more or different rights than
>> others. I furthermore object to the
>> notion such rights should or could
>> be based on birth or heredity.
>>
>> Whether the Brits or anyone else
>> like it or not is immaterial to the
>> point I made. This is a medieval
>> concept no matter how one looks
>> at it. Time to step out of the caves,
>> folks!
>>
>> dk
>
> You are absolutely right.  Have a glass of wine.
>
While I agree with Dan, I can't see any major change happening in even
my grandchildren's lifetime.

On 9/22/2022 10:18 AM, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-09-21 9:27 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 9/21/2022 10:39 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sooner or later they are
>>>>>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>>>>>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> and the system works!
>>>>>
>>>> Do they like it because it works,
>>>> or does it work because they like it.
>>>>
>>>> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.
>>>
>>> I object to the notion of some people
>>> having more or different rights than
>>> others. I furthermore object to the
>>> notion such rights should or could
>>> be based on birth or heredity.
>>>
>>> Whether the Brits or anyone else
>>> like it or not is immaterial to the
>>> point I made. This is a medieval
>>> concept no matter how one looks
>>> at it. Time to step out of the caves,
>>> folks!
>>>
>>> dk
>>
>> You are absolutely right.  Have a glass of wine.
>>
> While I agree with Dan, I can't see any major change happening in even my grandchildren's lifetime.

You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy, they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly Charles. Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the Brits? A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how much silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.

On 2022-09-22 8:24 a.m., Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/22/2022 10:18 AM, Graham wrote:
>> On 2022-09-21 9:27 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2022 10:39 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sooner or later they are
>>>>>>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>>>>>>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because they like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the system works!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Do they like it because it works,
>>>>> or does it work because they like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.
>>>>
>>>> I object to the notion of some people
>>>> having more or different rights than
>>>> others. I furthermore object to the
>>>> notion such rights should or could
>>>> be based on birth or heredity.
>>>>
>>>> Whether the Brits or anyone else
>>>> like it or not is immaterial to the
>>>> point I made. This is a medieval
>>>> concept no matter how one looks
>>>> at it. Time to step out of the caves,
>>>> folks!
>>>>
>>>> dk
>>>
>>> You are absolutely right.  Have a glass of wine.
>>>
>> While I agree with Dan, I can't see any major change happening in even
>> my grandchildren's lifetime.
>
>
> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy,
> they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly
> Charles.  Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the Brits?
> A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how much
> silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
>
I think most see the monarchy as a decoration of sorts and they are
useful at opening things etc.
At the moment, the bigger controversy is (after the FPTP voting system)
the composition of the House of Lords. They've limited the number of
heredity peers but they should be sent packing along with the bishops
who also sit there. Life peers who have been appointed to the chamber,
and who have avowed to see it totally abolished have changed their minds
when they realised how well it works.
Remember, Britain has no written constitution.

On 9/22/22 10:24 AM, Frank Berger wrote:

>
>
> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy,
> they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly
> Charles.  Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the Brits?
> A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how much
> silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
>

Everyone thinks the monarchy is silly...until they get knighted.

-Owen

On 9/22/2022 1:01 PM, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-09-22 8:24 a.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 9/22/2022 10:18 AM, Graham wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-21 9:27 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 9/21/2022 10:39 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:53:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/21/2022 9:07 PM, Graham wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-09-21 5:20 p.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/21/2022 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sooner or later they are
>>>>>>>>> abolished. Even the French managed to do this
>>>>>>>>> in 1870. Why is it taking the Brits so long ?!?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because they like it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and the system works!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do they like it because it works,
>>>>>> or does it work because they like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan doesn't like it. No monarchy for him.
>>>>>
>>>>> I object to the notion of some people
>>>>> having more or different rights than
>>>>> others. I furthermore object to the
>>>>> notion such rights should or could
>>>>> be based on birth or heredity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether the Brits or anyone else
>>>>> like it or not is immaterial to the
>>>>> point I made. This is a medieval
>>>>> concept no matter how one looks
>>>>> at it. Time to step out of the caves,
>>>>> folks!
>>>>>
>>>>> dk
>>>>
>>>> You are absolutely right.  Have a glass of wine.
>>>>
>>> While I agree with Dan, I can't see any major change happening in even my grandchildren's lifetime.
>>
>>
>> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy, they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly Charles.  Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the Brits? A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how much silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
>>
> I think most see the monarchy as a decoration of sorts and they are useful at opening things etc.
> At the moment, the bigger controversy is (after the FPTP voting system) the composition of the House of Lords. They've limited the number of heredity peers but they should be sent packing along with the bishops who also sit there. Life peers who have been appointed to the chamber, and who have avowed to see it totally abolished have changed their minds when they realised how well it works.
> Remember, Britain has no written constitution.

I am no expert on the pros and cons of various forms of representative government. I wouldn't mind reading a not-too-scholarly work on the subject. One site listed the following as the main elements of representative democracy:

Equality of all citizens before the law;

The legitimacy of state power;

Fulfillment of popular sovereignty;

Participation in public life;

Majority rule and minority rights;

Protection and respect for human rights;

Political pluralism;

Free and fair elections;

Separation and restriction of power.

Obviously there will be disagreements about to what extent these elements are fulfilled in this country or that, but it is useful guideline.

As Churchill said.....

On 9/22/2022 2:14 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 9/22/22 10:24 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy, they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly Charles.  Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the Brits? A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how much silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
>>
>
> Everyone thinks the monarchy is silly...until they get knighted.
>
> -Owen
>

Isn't the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the U.S. pretty much its equivalent? Other than the title. But doesn't that just emphasize the silliness? Very few comedians have been knighted. There is such a thing as too much silliness. Sir Charles Chaplin, sure. Sir Benny Hill? Sirs Monty Python? I don't think so.

On 9/22/22 2:29 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/22/2022 2:14 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On 9/22/22 10:24 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy,
>>> they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly
>>> Charles.  Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the
>>> Brits? A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how
>>> much silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
>>>
>>
>> Everyone thinks the monarchy is silly...until they get knighted.
>>
>> -Owen
>>
>
> Isn't the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the U.S. pretty much its
> equivalent?  Other than the title.

I would say being knighted is on a higher platform of silliness, but
both are at least reasonably silly.

> But doesn't that just emphasize the
> silliness?

Of course.

> Very few comedians have been knighted.  There is such a
> thing as too much silliness.

Not in my book.

> Sir Charles Chaplin, sure.  Sir Benny
> Hill?  Sirs Monty Python? I don't think so.

Why? Only highbrow entertainers are invited for the knight? Let's
admit the common scrabble and dub Sir David Chappelle, Sir Rodney
Dangerfield, and, most importantly, Sir George Carlin. I'm sure all
three would have found it exceeding funny.

-Owen

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 12:44:01 PM UTC-5, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 9/22/22 2:29 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 9/22/2022 2:14 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >> On 9/22/22 10:24 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy,
> >>> they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly
> >>> Charles. Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the
> >>> Brits? A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how
> >>> much silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Everyone thinks the monarchy is silly...until they get knighted.
> >>
> >> -Owen
> >>
> >
> > Isn't the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the U.S. pretty much its
> > equivalent? Other than the title.
> I would say being knighted is on a higher platform of silliness, but
> both are at least reasonably silly.
> > But doesn't that just emphasize the
> > silliness?
> Of course.
> > Very few comedians have been knighted. There is such a
> > thing as too much silliness.
> Not in my book.
> > Sir Charles Chaplin, sure. Sir Benny
> > Hill? Sirs Monty Python? I don't think so.
> Why? Only highbrow entertainers are invited for the knight? Let's
> admit the common scrabble and dub Sir David Chappelle, Sir Rodney
> Dangerfield, and, most importantly, Sir George Carlin. I'm sure all
> three would have found it exceeding funny.
>
> -Owen
FRANK BERGER: How do you like Ms. Truss' economic policies so far?

On 9/28/2022 2:55 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 12:44:01 PM UTC-5, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On 9/22/22 2:29 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> On 9/22/2022 2:14 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>> On 9/22/22 10:24 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd think that if there was a serious movement to end the monarchy,
>>>>> they would have pushed for it to end with Elizabeth or possibly
>>>>> Charles. Doesn't everyone thing the monarchy is silly, even the
>>>>> Brits? A certain amount of silliness is OK, and who is to say how
>>>>> much silliness is acceptable for somebody else? Other than Dan.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everyone thinks the monarchy is silly...until they get knighted.
>>>>
>>>> -Owen
>>>>
>>>
>>> Isn't the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the U.S. pretty much its
>>> equivalent? Other than the title.
>> I would say being knighted is on a higher platform of silliness, but
>> both are at least reasonably silly.
>>> But doesn't that just emphasize the
>>> silliness?
>> Of course.
>>> Very few comedians have been knighted. There is such a
>>> thing as too much silliness.
>> Not in my book.
>>> Sir Charles Chaplin, sure. Sir Benny
>>> Hill? Sirs Monty Python? I don't think so.
>> Why? Only highbrow entertainers are invited for the knight? Let's
>> admit the common scrabble and dub Sir David Chappelle, Sir Rodney
>> Dangerfield, and, most importantly, Sir George Carlin. I'm sure all
>> three would have found it exceeding funny.
>>
>> -Owen
> FRANK BERGER: How do you like Ms. Truss' economic policies so far?

Actually, I haven't paid any attention yet, being caught up in preparing for the Jewish high holidays and an imminent trip to Israel. But bear in mind, AFAIK, she is a Conservative (I am assuming British style Conservatism is similar to the American kind) and I am Libertarian inclined. Conservative may be as apt to meddle where they oughtn't as Liberals, but in different ways.
If she wants to cut taxes I am always for that. IF she want to cut marginal tax rates more for the rich than the middle class, I may be for that too. A country needs to decide how the burdent of government is to be apportioned and stick to it. Personally, I prefer a proportional apportionment, but can accept some progressivism in taxation as long as it's not too severe. The idea that you can just keep increasing taxes on the rich with no damage to economic incentives and innovation and not having them just up an leave the country is silly.

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> Feeling shocked and sad. She was loved by everyone.
>
> I think the UK is feeling quite fragile right now.

Queen of classical music:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/newsletter/2022-09-10/essential-arts-newsletter-queen-elizabeth-music-essential-arts-arts-culture