In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
> > shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
> >>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
> >>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
> >>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
> >>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
> >>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
> >>>
> >>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
> >>> calls voter suppression.

> >> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
> >> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
> >> Republicans.
> >
> > Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
> > not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>
> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.

Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
beginning of the fall of the republic.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:12:56 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>> >MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>> >
>> >>She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>> >>That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>> >>if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>> >>maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>> >>have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>> >
>> >No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>> >calls voter suppression.
>>
>>
>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>> Republicans.
>
>Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?

Because the rules that tend to help Democrats also work for everyone
else (as in allowing more time for voting which allows more people who
can't take time off from work to vote.) I'm all for getting everyone
to vote so hopefully we get more people interested in who gets elected
and have more of a representative government.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> > In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>> > shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>> >>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>> >>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>> >>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>> >>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>> >>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>> >>>
>> >>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>> >>> calls voter suppression.
>
>> >> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>> >> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>> >> Republicans.
>> >
>> > Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>> > not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>
>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>
>Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>beginning of the fall of the republic.

If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
comment on what California is doing.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>. . .

>>Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>>legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>>everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>>fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>>help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>>from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>>and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>>the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>>beginning of the fall of the republic.

>If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
>arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
>group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
>ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
>opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
>her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
>comment on what California is doing.

shawn, my state has an abyssmal state legislature but our election laws
do not allow what California allows. A voter may give his completed
mail-in ballot to a trusted relative or friend who will then mail it or
drop it at a secure drop box set up by election officials. It would be
illegal for a political partisan unknown to the voter to offer to accept
the ballot. The re-election campaign of my governor clearly knew who had
applied for mail-in ballots. I started getting text messages and
mailings that were quite specific to the sending in the ballot.

That was creepy as hell.

On 11/27/22 3:28 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tluo58$kaa$1@pcls7.std.com>,
> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>
>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 05:05:05 +0000 (UTC),
>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>
>>>> From a reductive standpoint, yes, but the devil is in the
>>>> interpretation (or the interpretors more recently). I also suspect
>>>> that shawn meant "statute" when he said "amendment."
>>>>
>>>> It's worth trying, but I see this SCOTUS being perfectly willing to
>>>> strike down any federal law protecting abortion, based on some 16th
>>>> century Calvinist theory or some such drivel.
>>>
>>> As I understand the court decision it put responsibility for the issue
>>> on the STATES. Not sure I personally agree with that but if that's the
>>> ruling then Biden and friends are spending a lot of time in waters
>>> they ought not to be swimming in.
>>
>> As I understand it, the SCOTUS decision was that in the absence of a
>> federal statute protecting abortion, the determination of abortion
>> rights or abortion prohibitions devolved to the states. But if Congress
>> did pass such a law, then that would supersede state laws (until, of
>> course, there was a challenge by red states that would proceed to the
>> SCOTUS again).
>
> COngress can only legislate over matters its been given jurisdiction
> over by Article I, Section 8. Since abortion isn't on that list, even a
> federal statute would be constitutionally unsound.

Have you contacted Miss Lindsey Graham about this?

> The only way to (legitimately) give the federal government jurisdiction
> over abortion would be to amend the Constitution accordingly.

You misspelled "...have a Supreme Court that isn't a fucked up right
wing mess."

On 11/27/22 9:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>
>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>
>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>> calls voter suppression.
>>
>>
>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>> Republicans.
>
> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?

LOL! Just letting people vote freely and fairly "helps Democrats."
Republicans are shit party that has to cheat to win. It's not there
isn't ample evidence of this.

On 11/27/22 10:24 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>>
>>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>>> calls voter suppression.
>
>>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>>> Republicans.
>>>
>>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>
>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>
> Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws

A representative sampling of one isn't statistically significant.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:08:40 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>
>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>> calls voter suppression.
>>>
>>>
>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>> Republicans.
>>
>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>
>Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.

You didn't answer the question.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> > In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>> > shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>> >>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>> >>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>> >>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>> >>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>> >>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>> >>>
>> >>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>> >>> calls voter suppression.
>
>> >> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>> >> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>> >> Republicans.
>> >
>> > Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>> > not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>
>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>
>Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>beginning of the fall of the republic.

If there is anything that should be clearly illegal everywhere it's
ballot harvesting. Interestingly enough Dems seem all for it.

On 11/28/2022 9:11 AM, NoBody wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:08:40 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>>
>>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>>> calls voter suppression.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>>> Republicans.
>>>
>>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>
>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>
> You didn't answer the question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

On 11/27/2022 11:28 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:12:56 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>
>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>> calls voter suppression.
>>>
>>>
>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>> Republicans.
>>
>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>
> Because the rules that tend to help Democrats also work for everyone
> else (as in allowing more time for voting which allows more people who
> can't take time off from work to vote.) I'm all for getting everyone
> to vote so hopefully we get more people interested in who gets elected
> and have more of a representative government.

Populist!!!

On 11/27/2022 11:32 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>>>> calls voter suppression.
>>
>>>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>
>>>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>>>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>>
>>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>>
>> Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>> legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>> everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>> fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>> help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>>from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>> and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>> the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>> beginning of the fall of the republic.
>
> If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
> arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
> group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
> ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
> opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
> her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
> comment on what California is doing.

While most *anything* that makes voting easier also makes voter-fraud
easier, it turns out that people just seem disinclined to commit it.
And, while apprehending *every* offender is next to impossible, it's
relatively easy (by sampling e.g.) to quantify their effect, if any.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>>> legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>>> everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>>> fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>>> help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>>> from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>>> and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>>> the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>>> beginning of the fall of the republic.
>
>> If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
>> arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
>> group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
>> ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
>> opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
>> her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
>> comment on what California is doing.
>
> shawn, my state has an abyssmal state legislature but our election laws
> do not allow what California allows. A voter may give his completed
> mail-in ballot to a trusted relative or friend who will then mail it or
> drop it at a secure drop box set up by election officials. It would be
> illegal for a political partisan unknown to the voter to offer to accept
> the ballot. The re-election campaign of my governor clearly knew who had
> applied for mail-in ballots. I started getting text messages and
> mailings that were quite specific to the sending in the ballot.
>
> That was creepy as hell.
>

One year while I was living at mom‘s I got a message from the republican
party that said I hadn’t voted in so long that my registration had lapsed
so they went ahead and re-registered me. As Republican.

That was creepy as hell.

In high school our social studies teacher gave us extra credit for
registering to vote. Of course we had to do it with him and he was a
Democratic registrar so you had to register Democrat.

That was creepy as hell.

And should’ve gotten him fired at the very least.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 9:45:29 AM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:06:22 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Tuberville, MTG, Herschel, Boebert, John Kennedy, Gohmert, Scalise,
> > Blackburn--the list goes on and on. Then there's the likes of Larry
> > Craig, Gym Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Denny Hastert, and numerous other sexual
> > perverts that aren't as stupid, just disgustingly perverted. Why would
> > anyone want to belong to a party filled with stupid assholes like this?
> > The obvious answer is you'd have to be a stupid asshole yourself.
>
> You support the Left and you have the gall to call anyone perverted? The Left THRIVES on perversion.
> Perversion of human dignity, perversion of justice.

Plus highways to boost farm land values and commuter trains built to nowhere now getting 50 passengers a station. The complete Hastert portrait.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:45:36 -0500, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>I would have to say that THE APPRENTICE went a long way to helping
>Trump get elected as before that he would have been seen as just
>another New York elite.
>>I have saved the Photoshopped picture of Queen Elizabeth wearing a red
>>hat saying "Make American Great <small type) Britain (end small type)
>>again!". It's one of my favorites in fact.

It's possible - Google tells me Trump left the Apprentice in 2015
which is LONG after I stopped watching (I watched the first three
seasons)

I had heard of him long before that but with all due respect given his
induction into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2013 I am mystified anybody
would think of him as "just another New York elite"

Please don't think of that as support - as they say "OMG LOL"

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:12:56 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>> >MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>> >
>> >>She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>> >>That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>> >>if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>> >>maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>> >>have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>> >
>> >No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>> >calls voter suppression.
>>
>>
>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>> Republicans.
>
>Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?

Obviously it's not though as I told Mickey I find the idea that the
states hold their own rules for a federal election (which includes how
its administered) laughable and vaguely obscene.

Part of the problem with US politics in the Trump era is that
extremism on both sides have come to the fore and centrism of all
sorts is withering.

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:06:22 AM UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
> Tuberville, MTG, Herschel, Boebert, John Kennedy, Gohmert, Scalise,
> Blackburn--the list goes on and on. Then there's the likes of Larry
> Craig, Gym Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Denny Hastert, and numerous other sexual
> perverts that aren't as stupid, just disgustingly perverted. Why would
> anyone want to belong to a party filled with stupid assholes like this?
> The obvious answer is you'd have to be a stupid asshole yourself.

Or it would be friends of the oil and gas ....

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:08:40 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>
>Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.

Methinks that was Shawn's whole point.

And I do think American administration of elections is appalling -
even during COVID I have never taken more than 30 minutes to vote and
that includes municipal elections where we had to elect 1 mayor, 6
councillors, 4 school trustees and about 15 initiatives (not sure on
the last number but it's close)

The Canadian system has problems on the side of making electoral
districts fairly close in size (there are provinces with federal
districts with 20-25% more voters than others which would never happen
in the US except where a state has one representative) but as to what
happens on voting day it's fairly streamlined.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> > Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>> > not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>
>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>
>Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>beginning of the fall of the republic.

I share that view on "harvesting". While I don't have a huge problem
with mail votes (though I don't like it much) anything handling the
envelopes containing mail votes besides the US Postal Service is
inviting fraud.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:32:05 -0500, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
>arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
>group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
>ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
>opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
>her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
>comment on what California is doing.

Reporters have since the invention of the microphone put them in
politicians' faces looking for comments and if she chose to answer "I
do my best for Georgians and as a result don't have time for keeping
up on what's going on in California" you could hardly fault her though
"yeah sure...." might be a reasonable response.

But MANY of the "harvesters" have left unattended collection boxes
open during their hours and in those circumstances ballot stuffing is
very easy to pull off. I trust USPS - but I certainly wouldn't trust
an unattended box on the sidewalk.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 09:40:12 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>> Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>>>> legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>>>> everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>>>> fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>>>> help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>>>> from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>>>> and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>>>> the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>>>> beginning of the fall of the republic.
>>
>>> If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
>>> arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
>>> group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
>>> ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
>>> opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
>>> her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
>>> comment on what California is doing.
>>
>> shawn, my state has an abyssmal state legislature but our election laws
>> do not allow what California allows. A voter may give his completed
>> mail-in ballot to a trusted relative or friend who will then mail it or
>> drop it at a secure drop box set up by election officials. It would be
>> illegal for a political partisan unknown to the voter to offer to accept
>> the ballot. The re-election campaign of my governor clearly knew who had
>> applied for mail-in ballots. I started getting text messages and
>> mailings that were quite specific to the sending in the ballot.
>>
>> That was creepy as hell.
>>
>
>One year while I was living at mom‘s I got a message from the republican
>party that said I hadn’t voted in so long that my registration had lapsed
>so they went ahead and re-registered me. As Republican.
>
>That was creepy as hell.

No one should be allowed to re-register you to vote. I don't have a
problem with your being contacted when if your registration expires as
that leaves it up to you to re-register or not.

>In high school our social studies teacher gave us extra credit for
>registering to vote. Of course we had to do it with him and he was a
>Democratic registrar so you had to register Democrat.
>
>That was creepy as hell.

Giving you extra credit for registering to vote was okay. Did he
actually force you to register as a Democrat (as in no credit if you
didn't register as a Democrat) or was it more of the 'go ahead and
choose Democrat' recommendation since most kids wouldn't have a strong
preference for any party. In any case it shouldn't be a real problem
since you can change your party affiliation at any time.

On 11/28/22 8:12 AM, NoBody wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <cvWgL.43469$c6W2.39935@fx41.iad>,
>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start. (And even
>>>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection could
>>>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>>>> calls voter suppression.
>>
>>>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>
>>>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>>>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>>
>>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>>
>> Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>> legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>> everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>> fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>> help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>>from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>> and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>> the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>> beginning of the fall of the republic.
>
> If there is anything that should be clearly illegal everywhere it's
> ballot harvesting. Interestingly enough Dems seem all for it.

Prove it shitpuppet.

On 11/28/22 9:27 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/28/2022 9:11 AM, NoBody wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:08:40 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/27/2022 10:12 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> In article <hs78ohhu9bdjb6oth0kf77m9kggjd1i4nl@4ax.com>,
>>>>    shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:22:49 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 03:48:04 +0000 (UTC),
>>>>>> MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She hasn't incited the violent overthrow of any level of government.
>>>>>>> That puts her head and shoulders above Trump just to start.  (And
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> if she had such immoral inclinations, I've seen no sign that she's
>>>>>>> maniacally deluded enough to think that that tinpot insurrection
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> have succeeded, as Trump was deluded in thinking.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No she hasn't but has twice denounced election 'fraud' and what she
>>>>>> calls voter suppression.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which was perfectly reasonable for her to do since the changes made in
>>>>> our (that is Georgia) voting rules were done solely to help elect
>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>
>>>> Why is it bad to change voting rules to help elect Republicans but it's
>>>> not only okay, but desirable, to change rules to help elect Democrats?
>>>
>>> Trying to keep people from voting is antithetical to a democracy.
>>
>> You didn't answer the question.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

"Horny Goat" is a Horny Idiot.

On 11/28/22 9:45 AM, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:06:22 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Tuberville, MTG, Herschel, Boebert, John Kennedy, Gohmert, Scalise,
>> Blackburn--the list goes on and on. Then there's the likes of Larry
>> Craig, Gym Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Denny Hastert, and numerous other sexual
>> perverts that aren't as stupid, just disgustingly perverted. Why would
>> anyone want to belong to a party filled with stupid assholes like this?
>> The obvious answer is you'd have to be a stupid asshole yourself.
>
> You support the Left and you have the gall to call anyone perverted? The Left THRIVES on perversion.
> Perversion of human dignity, perversion of justice.

I had what, at least ten examples? You have ZERO because you're a big
fat zero. Stop shitposting.

On 11/28/22 10:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:24:14 -0800, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>> Well, when the California legislature changed the state's voting laws to
>>>> legalize ballot harvesting-- something that's illegal pretty much
>>>> everywhere else because it's like rolling out the red carpet for voter
>>>> fraud-- and said right out loud that the reason for the change was to
>>>> help Democrat voter turnout, I must have missed the howls of outrage
>>>> from the likes of Stacey Abrams and the boxes of talking heads on CNN
>>>> and MSNBC bemoaning this partisan attack on the democratic process, and
>>>> the think-pieces in the New York Times speculating that this marks the
>>>> beginning of the fall of the republic.
>>
>>> If they were actually engaged in voter fraud then they should be
>>> arrested and put in jail. Otherwise there's nothing that prevents any
>>> group (Republican, Democrats or any one else) from doing the legal
>>> ballot harvest to insure everyone that wants to vote gets their
>>> opportunity. Also given that Abrams has been focused on Georgia and
>>> her election in Georgia I don't know why you would expect her to
>>> comment on what California is doing.
>>
>> shawn, my state has an abyssmal state legislature but our election laws
>> do not allow what California allows. A voter may give his completed
>> mail-in ballot to a trusted relative or friend who will then mail it or
>> drop it at a secure drop box set up by election officials. It would be
>> illegal for a political partisan unknown to the voter to offer to accept
>> the ballot. The re-election campaign of my governor clearly knew who had
>> applied for mail-in ballots. I started getting text messages and
>> mailings that were quite specific to the sending in the ballot.
>>
>> That was creepy as hell.
>>
>
> One year while I was living at mom‘s

How was the basement, is it nice?