On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:26:02 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Did he actually force you to register as a Democrat (as in no credit if
>>you didn't register as a Democrat) or was it more of the 'go ahead and
>>choose Democrat' recommendation since most kids wouldn't have a strong
>>preference for any party. In any case it shouldn't be a real problem
>>since you can change your party affiliation at any time.
>
>It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.

In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
wasn't an issue. Alternately they could check the box on the income
tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
information to the elections commission.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:44:58 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>> How does "ballot harvesting" differ in principle from busing voters?
>>>
>>> Quite frankly this practice, when done by political parties, should
>>> also be illegal.
>>>
>>But no one's standing over the bussed voters to ensure that they vote
>>for one party over another. They're simply getting them there.
>
>Wow. That's the same idiotic rhetorical argument from BOTH moviePig
>AND NoBody.

As I said previously when my grandfather's campaign staff offered a
ride they were told in no uncertain terms they weren't supposed to ask
how a voter was leaning - simply whether they'd value a lift to the
polls. Obviously a canvasser could often tell but directly asking was
strictly verboten.

If you need to have the difference to getting somebody bodily to the
voting stations and delivering their BALLOT (which depending on the
canvasser's view of the voter's leanings may or may not actually get
there) then there's little I can do to explain to you.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:39:45 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>A Friend wrote:
>>Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>
>The article Ubi plagarized:
>
>Joe Biden's Praise for Segregationists Spans Decades
>By Ashton Pittman
>Jackson Free Press
>Friday, June 28, 2019 12:26 p.m. CDT
>https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2019/jun/28/joe-bidens-praise-segregationists-spans-decades/
>
>>>Southern Dixiecrats and Republicans had long opposed busing in their region,
>>>where the federal government had mandated it most heavily. But as the
>>>practice spread, whites in wealthy suburbs like those in Delaware began
>>>pushing back. Some had moved to the suburbs to send their kids to what they
>>>considered a "good school," which usually meant mostly white, and opposed
>>>their kids being bused elsewhere to make schools more equal.
>
>>>"Southern politicians who had been pushing against desegregation
>>>in the 1950s realized, 'Oh, OK, now that it's hit the doorstep
>>>of the northeasterners; they don't like it any more than we do,'"
>>>Ralph W. Eubanks, a southern studies professor at the University of
>>>Mississippi, told the Jackson Free Press in April. "And these political
>>>alliances began to form. So that's why you had someone like Joe Biden
>>>making alliances with Strom Thurmond, James Eastland and John Stennis."
>
>>This is a gross misrepresentation of what was actually going on. The
>>tipping point came when kids began being bussed from the suburbs back
>>into the cities, adding hours to their school day. You didn't have to
>>be racist to not want your kids to be the subject of a social
>>experiment that required them to ride a bus for up to three hours per
>>day when there was a perfectly good public school within walking
>>distance of their homes.
>
>You're talking about the effect of bussing to desgretate suburban
>Boston schools, and I agree with you. Nevertheless, certain aspects of
>desegretation cases post Brown v. Board of Education were specific to
>the facts of those metropolitan areas. If I recall correctly, there were
>cases in the Kansas City metropolitan area (and now I'm forgetting if it
>was the Missouri side or Kansas side) in which the facts demonstrated that
>new school districts, not just new attendance boundaries, were drawn along
>racial lines to retain segregation, which is what set up later cases for
>bussing to desegregate across school district boundaries and not just
>within a school district.
>
>For that reason, the adverse effects of very long bus rides on public
>school students weren't considered and very long bus riders are
>certainly possible within a single school district serving a large city.

As a child I was bused for 4 years due to a special program I was in
and had a mile walk at the end of it. In Nov/Dec my parents were
concerned since I might arrive home after dark (I was in grades 4-7 at
the time) but in the spring and early summer they were fine with that
- and it was uphill all the way (literally)

On 11/30/2022 2:30 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 10:25:21 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/29/2022 2:54 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:21:37 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How does "ballot harvesting" differ in principle from busing voters?
>>>
>>> Seriously?
>>>
>>> Because if you bus (or otherwise transport a voter) you have anhonest
>>> to god live voter who physically marks an "X".
>>>
>>> As opposed to somebody who goes around stealing mail ballot envelopes
>>> from somebody's mail in ballots and mail them in for them "on their
>>> behalf" (all voting for the thief's preferred candidate) and counting
>>> on most people wondering what happened to their ballot but not doing
>>> anything about it - or turning up on election day in person and being
>>> told they had already voted!
>>
>> Afaics, you're conflating 'ballot harvesting' with 'voter fraud'.
>>
> No - but I definitely AM stating that 'ballot harvesting' removes most
> or all of the impediments to voter fraud. Particularly when the
> ballot boxes are at any point unintended or otherwise out of the
> custody of the polling crews.

No, it doesn't remove what's probably the biggest "impediment" to voter
fraud, which has long accounted for its rarity -- i.e., its huge
criminal penalty vs. its minimal effect on an election's outcome.

On 11/30/2022 2:39 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:50:19 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> But no one's standing over the bussed voters to ensure that they vote
>>> for one party over another. They're simply getting them there.
>>
>> So, a voter could lie about which way he'll vote, just to get the free
>> ride? Hey, look, we've invented a new kind of "voter fraud"!...
>
> Why would they have to lie? As I said previously my grandfather was a
> federal candidate 50 years ago and his people didn't expect anything
> from their passengers besides "thank you for the ride". If they made
> it clear how they DID vote then his staff took note of that but had
> instructions NOT to ask.
>
> A higher voter turnout was considered to be a positive social good -
> hopefully we still do

Yeah, I'm just being fanciful and sarcastic. Afaics, *all* measures
undertaken to ensure the "integrity" of the vote are purely partisan.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.

>In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
>graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
>the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
>wasn't an issue.

The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
election I would have been eligible to vote in.

>Alternately they could check the box on the income
>tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
>information to the elections commission.

We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:50:19 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

>>>But no one's standing over the bussed voters to ensure that they vote
>>>for one party over another. They're simply getting them there.

>>So, a voter could lie about which way he'll vote, just to get the free
>>ride? Hey, look, we've invented a new kind of "voter fraud"!...

>Why would they have to lie? As I said previously my grandfather was a
>federal candidate 50 years ago and his people didn't expect anything
>from their passengers besides "thank you for the ride". If they made
>it clear how they DID vote then his staff took note of that but had
>instructions NOT to ask.

>A higher voter turnout was considered to be a positive social good -
>hopefully we still do

I don't. Learning about the issues, especially in smaller local units of
government takes actual work that most voters are unwilling to do. In
higher profile races, voters tend to vote on emotion rather than making
hard choices. Too many politicians in my state get elected who have or
are likely to commit felonies, and it's just a super-welcoming hunting
ground for federal prosecutors making a name for themselves opposing
public corruption. But voters just don't care.

On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
>
>> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
>> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
>> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
>> wasn't an issue.
>
> The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
> long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
> odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
> four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
> of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
> window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
> election I would have been eligible to vote in.
>
>> Alternately they could check the box on the income
>> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
>> information to the elections commission.
>
> We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
> registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
> any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
> don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
> another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
> the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
> separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
> address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
> jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
> drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
> make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
> and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
> which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
> registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
> about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
> piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
> allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.

They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:10:15 -0500, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>:

>>>Afaics, you're conflating 'ballot harvesting' with 'voter fraud'.

>>Yes, ballot harvesting can mean they simply gather everyone's ballot
>>from some spot and then drop them off at a drop box. It doesn't
>>necessarily entail fraudulently filling out the ballots. Still it's
>>frowned upon because of that possibility of tampering with the
>>ballots.

>Once again I >didn't< say third party dropoff equals voter fraud - but
>I very much DID say that if anybody WANTS to engage in voter fraud
>this practice makes things much easier.

Laws against ballot harvesting are required due to the nature of
mail-in ballots. With in-person voting, the voter identifies himself to
the election judge. The ballot then remains within the jurisdiction of
election judges. With vote-by-mail, you at least want the ballot to be
in the voter's control from the time the blank ballot is delivered till
it's mailed or dropped off at an official site. With ballot harvesting,
the ballot is given to someone untrusted by the voter, and that's a good
reason to make the practice illegal in addition to making illegal
unauthorized changes to the ballot or failing to return the ballot.

>It particularly makes it easier when you have voters with English as a
>second language who come to the polls without ID of any sort. (Which
>has happened umpteen times in our community particularly in electoral
>districts with a high proportion of immigrants (legal).

My state doesn't require voter ID for in-person voting, unless there's
some sort of issue. If there is an issue requiring ID, then the voter
can vote provisionally to clear up the ID issue within a certain amount
of time after the polls close.

>Having served as a scrutineer I know I saw some voters turn up on
>election day that I heavily wondered about but didn't challenge.

Is that a poll watcher?

In article <tm8hoj$1g57c$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
> >
> >> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
> >> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
> >> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
> >> wasn't an issue.
> >
> > The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
> > long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
> > odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
> > four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
> > of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
> > window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
> > election I would have been eligible to vote in.
> >
> >> Alternately they could check the box on the income
> >> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
> >> information to the elections commission.
> >
> > We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
> > registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
> > any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
> > don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
> > another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
> > the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
> > separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
> > address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
> > jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
> > drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
> > make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
> > and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
> > which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
> > registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
> > about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
> > piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
> > allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.
>
> They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?

They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
that kind of face.

suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>>>It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.

>>>In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
>>>graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
>>>the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
>>>wasn't an issue.

>>The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
>>long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
>>odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
>>four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
>>of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
>>window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
>>election I would have been eligible to vote in.

>>>Alternately they could check the box on the income
>>>tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
>>>information to the elections commission.

>>We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
>>registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
>>any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
>>don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
>>another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
>>the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
>>separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
>>address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
>>jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
>>drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
>>make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
>>and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
>>which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
>>registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
>>about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
>>piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
>>allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.

>They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?

Yes, they will, but I won't get a utility bill for up to a month, and
the lease I won't show for privacy reasons. But neither the lease nor
utility bill will be in the name of every adult of voting age in the
household.

They will accept a piece of mail under certain circumstances, so I may
have to mail something to myself.

What if I moved on the 30th day before the election? That the minimum
residency requirement. It's now illegal to vote from my former address,
and that's not going to be enough time to get paperwork with the
address. Now, some states have a state-wide register of voters so the
address change would merely require timely notice from the voter and no
proof of residence, if making an in-state move. But my state doesn't.

A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>In article <tm8hoj$1g57c$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> > The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
>> >
>> >> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
>> >> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
>> >> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
>> >> wasn't an issue.
>> >
>> > The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
>> > long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
>> > odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
>> > four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
>> > of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
>> > window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
>> > election I would have been eligible to vote in.
>> >
>> >> Alternately they could check the box on the income
>> >> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
>> >> information to the elections commission.
>> >
>> > We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
>> > registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
>> > any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
>> > don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
>> > another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
>> > the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
>> > separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
>> > address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
>> > jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
>> > drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
>> > make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
>> > and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
>> > which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
>> > registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
>> > about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
>> > piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
>> > allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.
>>
>> They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?
>
>
>They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
>that kind of face.

If the utilities are in your name, how does your wife prove residency?
If it's too close to the next election, how would you have a utility
bill to show?

In article <301120221643044738%nope@noway.com>,
A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

> In article <tm8hoj$1g57c$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
> > On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > > The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
> > >
> > >> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
> > >> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
> > >> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
> > >> wasn't an issue.
> > >
> > > The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
> > > long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
> > > odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
> > > four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
> > > of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
> > > window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
> > > election I would have been eligible to vote in.
> > >
> > >> Alternately they could check the box on the income
> > >> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
> > >> information to the elections commission.
> > >
> > > We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
> > > registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
> > > any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
> > > don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
> > > another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
> > > the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
> > > separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
> > > address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
> > > jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
> > > drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
> > > make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
> > > and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
> > > which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
> > > registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
> > > about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
> > > piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
> > > allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.
> >
> > They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?

> They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
> that kind of face.

Last week I was buying a new pistol and jumping through the myriad hoops
that California puts in your way to discourage you from doing so (one of
which is to pass a test where anti-gun political propaganda are the
'correct' answers, and which requires you to agree with that propaganda
in order to pass it).

One of the requirements is to provide proof of residency. However your
state-issued driver license isn't good enough to satisfy that
requirement. They would only accept a vehicle registration card or a
recent utility bill-- either on paper or a PDF file. The driver license,
with it's holograms, microprinting, embedded fibers, moire patterns, and
magnetic strip isn't good enough, but the plain piece of paper the DMV
sends me with my car info and address printed out in basic Courier font
is fine. Or a utility bill, which I could literally download from any
friend or family member, photoshop out their name and address and add my
own.

This state is unbelievable.

In article <tm8jmp$2jp57$2@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
> >In article <tm8hoj$1g57c$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >> > The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
> >> >
> >> >> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
> >> >> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
> >> >> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
> >> >> wasn't an issue.
> >> >
> >> > The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
> >> > long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
> >> > odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
> >> > four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
> >> > of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
> >> > window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
> >> > election I would have been eligible to vote in.
> >> >
> >> >> Alternately they could check the box on the income
> >> >> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
> >> >> information to the elections commission.
> >> >
> >> > We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
> >> > registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
> >> > any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
> >> > don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
> >> > another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
> >> > the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
> >> > separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
> >> > address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
> >> > jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
> >> > drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
> >> > make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
> >> > and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
> >> > which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
> >> > registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
> >> > about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
> >> > piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
> >> > allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.
> >>
> >> They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?
> >
> >
> >They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
> >that kind of face.
>
> If the utilities are in your name, how does your wife prove residency?

The electric bill is in both our names. I forget what's on the water
bill.

> If it's too close to the next election, how would you have a utility
> bill to show?

To tell you the truth, all I think I've ever had to show them was a
driver's license and a utility bill. I save and file the bills, as I
do pretty much everything else. I've been registered to vote and have
been regularly voting here for more than thirty years. I don't know
why they'd suddenly question my eligibility, but I'm ready for them if
they ever do.

A Friend wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:
>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
>>>>>long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
>>>>>odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
>>>>>four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
>>>>>of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
>>>>>window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
>>>>>election I would have been eligible to vote in.

>>>>>>Alternately they could check the box on the income
>>>>>>tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
>>>>>>information to the elections commission.

>>>>>We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
>>>>>registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
>>>>>any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
>>>>>don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
>>>>>another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
>>>>>the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
>>>>>separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
>>>>>address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
>>>>>jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
>>>>>drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
>>>>>make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
>>>>>and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
>>>>>which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
>>>>>registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
>>>>>about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
>>>>>piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
>>>>>allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.

>>>>They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?

>>>They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
>>>that kind of face.

>>If the utilities are in your name, how does your wife prove residency?

>The electric bill is in both our names. I forget what's on the water
>bill.

Ok. I'm glad something was available that allowed her to prove
residency.

>>If it's too close to the next election, how would you have a utility
>>bill to show?

>To tell you the truth, all I think I've ever had to show them was a
>driver's license and a utility bill. I save and file the bills, as I
>do pretty much everything else. I've been registered to vote and have
>been regularly voting here for more than thirty years. I don't know
>why they'd suddenly question my eligibility, but I'm ready for them if
>they ever do.

As you haven't moved in more than three decades, you and I don't share a
common experience attempting to register to vote shortly after moving. I
tend to move every few years. My situation isn't applicable to yours.

I told two different personal stories, one about not being able to register
to vote in time for the first election I was eligible to vote in, not
knowing that I had a two-week window in which to register, and the other
story was about the difficult I had in registering to vote because I needed
to register to vote in the jurisdiction of a different voter registrar.

No, I've never needed to provide documentation to identify myself to
vote at my home precinct's polling site on election day with my voter
registration in good standing.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>Last week I was buying a new pistol and jumping through the myriad hoops
>that California puts in your way to discourage you from doing so (one of
>which is to pass a test where anti-gun political propaganda are the
>'correct' answers, and which requires you to agree with that propaganda
>in order to pass it).

Is one of the questions "Do you have a little list?" sung to Sullivan's score?

>One of the requirements is to provide proof of residency. However your
>state-issued driver license isn't good enough to satisfy that
>requirement. They would only accept a vehicle registration card or a
>recent utility bill-- either on paper or a PDF file. The driver license,
>with it's holograms, microprinting, embedded fibers, moire patterns, and
>magnetic strip isn't good enough, but the plain piece of paper the DMV
>sends me with my car info and address printed out in basic Courier font
>is fine. Or a utility bill, which I could literally download from any
>friend or family member, photoshop out their name and address and add my
>own.

>This state is unbelievable.

That's just amazingly stupid.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 4:06:01 PM UTC-6, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <301120221643044738%no...@noway.com>,
> A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <tm8hoj$1g57c$1...@solani.org>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > > > The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
> > > >
> > > >> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
> > > >> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
> > > >> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
> > > >> wasn't an issue.
> > > >
> > > > The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
> > > > long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
> > > > odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
> > > > four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
> > > > of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
> > > > window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
> > > > election I would have been eligible to vote in.
> > > >
> > > >> Alternately they could check the box on the income
> > > >> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
> > > >> information to the elections commission.
> > > >
> > > > We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
> > > > registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
> > > > any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
> > > > don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
> > > > another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
> > > > the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
> > > > separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
> > > > address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
> > > > jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
> > > > drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
> > > > make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
> > > > and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
> > > > which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
> > > > registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
> > > > about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
> > > > piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
> > > > allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.
> > >
> > > They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?
>
> > They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
> > that kind of face.
> Last week I was buying a new pistol and jumping through the myriad hoops
> that California puts in your way to discourage you from doing so (one of
> which is to pass a test where anti-gun political propaganda are the
> 'correct' answers, and which requires you to agree with that propaganda
> in order to pass it).
>
> One of the requirements is to provide proof of residency. However your
> state-issued driver license isn't good enough to satisfy that
> requirement. They would only accept a vehicle registration card or a
> recent utility bill-- either on paper or a PDF file. The driver license,
> with it's holograms, microprinting, embedded fibers, moire patterns, and
> magnetic strip isn't good enough, but the plain piece of paper the DMV
> sends me with my car info and address printed out in basic Courier font
> is fine. Or a utility bill, which I could literally download from any
> friend or family member, photoshop out their name and address and add my
> own.
>
> This state is unbelievable.

But your cartel amigos still got a present in Tijuana.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:19:47 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>A Friend wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>A Friend wrote:
>>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>. . .
>

>>To tell you the truth, all I think I've ever had to show them was a
>>driver's license and a utility bill. I save and file the bills, as I
>>do pretty much everything else. I've been registered to vote and have
>>been regularly voting here for more than thirty years. I don't know
>>why they'd suddenly question my eligibility, but I'm ready for them if
>>they ever do.
>
>As you haven't moved in more than three decades, you and I don't share a
>common experience attempting to register to vote shortly after moving. I
>tend to move every few years. My situation isn't applicable to yours.
>
>I told two different personal stories, one about not being able to register
>to vote in time for the first election I was eligible to vote in, not
>knowing that I had a two-week window in which to register, and the other
>story was about the difficult I had in registering to vote because I needed
>to register to vote in the jurisdiction of a different voter registrar.

In our case in Georgia it's much easier. So long as you have a valid
Georgia drivers licence you can register to vote online. I'm not aware
of any limitation on when one can register so I could move every week
in a year and change my registration each week.

If one doesn't have a Georgia drivers licence you can register by
mail. You would need to provide a copy of a valid photo ID and a
current utility bill/bank statement/government check showing your name
and address (apparently this is required by federal law.) So this is
much the same as you described above.

>No, I've never needed to provide documentation to identify myself to
>vote at my home precinct's polling site on election day with my voter
>registration in good standing.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>In our case in Georgia it's much easier. So long as you have a valid
>Georgia drivers licence you can register to vote online. I'm not aware
>of any limitation on when one can register so I could move every week
>in a year and change my registration each week.

My state now has grace-period registration for the last 15 days before
the electiion but you must register and vote at the early voting site.
Also we have same-day registration at the polling site. None of this
existed when I was much younger.

>. . .

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <301120221643044738%nope@noway.com>,
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <tm8hoj$1g57c$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/30/2022 12:55 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It's a real problem because it was being done by a person in authority.
>>>>
>>>>> In several schools in our district they were registering 11th and 12th
>>>>> graders to vote - the forms they were given CLEARLY made it clear that
>>>>> the voting age was 18 but since the election was 2 years away that
>>>>> wasn't an issue.
>>>>
>>>> The same thing is true in my state, that one can register to vote as
>>>> long as one will have turned 18 by the next election. I turned 18 in an
>>>> odd-numbered year between elections that were 6 weeks apart with a full
>>>> four-week period in which voter registration was closed. I wasn't aware
>>>> of the period during which registration was closed and missed the narrow
>>>> window I had to register. I therefore missed voting in the first
>>>> election I would have been eligible to vote in.
>>>>
>>>>> Alternately they could check the box on the income
>>>>> tax form authorizing the tax authorities to give their personal
>>>>> information to the elections commission.
>>>>
>>>> We have Motor Voter (federal law) in which one can chose to have voter
>>>> registration information sent by registering for a driver's license or
>>>> any number of other federal welfare programs. I don't like it because I
>>>> don't want the sending of information from one government agency to
>>>> another to mess up my voter registration that's in good standing. But
>>>> the thing I have to remember to do each time I move is change my address
>>>> separately on the voter registry so I get a piece of paper with my new
>>>> address on it. This only works well if both addresses are in the
>>>> jurisdiction of the same voter registrar. Changing the address with
>>>> drivers' service bureau is something I just tell them but they don't
>>>> make the physical update on the license itself till I get it renewed,
>>>> and in the interim, the old address continues to shw in the database,
>>>> which in turn gets submitted to the same database that new voter
>>>> registrations are checked against. They gave me an amazingly hard time
>>>> about voter registration last time I moved since I didn't yet have a
>>>> piece of paper in hand that they'd accept to verify the address. I'm
>>>> allowed to show a bank statement but I absolutely refused to do that.
>>>
>>> They won't accept a current lease, or a utility bill?
>
>> They've always accepted a utility bill, at least from me. I must have
>> that kind of face.
>
> Last week I was buying a new pistol and jumping through the myriad hoops
> that California puts in your way to discourage you from doing so (one of
> which is to pass a test where anti-gun political propaganda are the
> 'correct' answers, and which requires you to agree with that propaganda
> in order to pass it).
>
> One of the requirements is to provide proof of residency. However your
> state-issued driver license isn't good enough to satisfy that
> requirement. They would only accept a vehicle registration card or a
> recent utility bill-- either on paper or a PDF file. The driver license,
> with it's holograms, microprinting, embedded fibers, moire patterns, and
> magnetic strip isn't good enough, but the plain piece of paper the DMV
> sends me with my car info and address printed out in basic Courier font
> is fine. Or a utility bill, which I could literally download from any
> friend or family member, photoshop out their name and address and add my
> own.
>
> This state is unbelievable.
>

Yeah, the utility bill business is hysterical.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

"Thousands of convicted pedophiles in California have
been released from prison after only spending less than
a year in prison, a recent analysis found.

"Statistics clearly show that pedophiles don't get reformed.
They're going to come out and they're going to commit again,
" former Los Angeles sex crimes prosecutor Samuel Dordulian
told the Daily Mail.

Using California's Megan's Law website, the Daily Mail found that
there were more than 7,000 sex offenders convicted of "lewd
or lascivious acts with a child under 14 years of age," but released
from prison in under a year of being convicted.

"Letting these people out early, we're allowing for a lot more
victimization. And that's terrifying," Dordulian added.

Sadly, but honestly, is anyone even surprised that these nutcase
left wing Democrats are putting thousands of convicted
pedophiles back on the street? These are the same liberal
loons that support open borders, no-cash bail and have
pushed to defund the police.

I truly do not understand how anyone who cares about
America could ever vote for a liberal Democrat!

Irish Mike

Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

>. . .

>I truly do not understand how . . .

how not-Irish Mike forgets that he's posted this already. He keeps
repeating himself!

>Irish Mike

You're not Irish.

On 11/30/22 10:01 PM, Irish Mike wrote:
> "Thousands of convicted pedophiles in California have
> been released from prison after only spending less than
> a year in prison, a recent analysis found.
>
> "Statistics clearly show that pedophiles don't get reformed.
> They're going to come out and they're going to commit again,
> " former Los Angeles sex crimes prosecutor Samuel Dordulian
> told the Daily Mail.
>
> Using California's Megan's Law website, the Daily Mail found that
> there were more than 7,000 sex offenders convicted of "lewd
> or lascivious acts with a child under 14 years of age," but released
> from prison in under a year of being convicted.
>
> "Letting these people out early, we're allowing for a lot more
> victimization. And that's terrifying," Dordulian added.
>
> Sadly, but honestly, is anyone even surprised that these nutcase
> left wing Democrats are putting thousands of convicted
> pedophiles back on the street? These are the same liberal
> loons that support open borders, no-cash bail and have
> pushed to defund the police.
>
> I truly do not understand how anyone who cares about
> America could ever vote for a liberal Democrat!

Inability to understand due to marked lack of intelligence noted.

Apparently, working for a Nobel Prize winner doesn't mean you actually
know how to pronounce the proper noun "Nobel."

At Monday's White House media briefing, press secretary Karine Jean-
Pierre told reporters about President Joe Biden's hectic schedule for the
day. Earlier, he'd signed the Presidential Memorandum on Promoting
Accountability for Conflict-Related Sexual Violence, which is meant to
strengthen "the U.S. government's effort to combat rape as a weapon of
war."

Then, he "met with three U.S. winners of the 2022 Nobel Prize: Dr.
Carolyn Bertozzi, who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry; Dr. John Clauser,
who won the Nobel Prize in Physics; and Dr. Douglas Diamond, who won the
Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences."

"The president is restarting an important tradition that just like - just
like he does for winning sports teams, as you have seen him do in the
past 20 months or so, the president meets with U.S. winners of the Nobel
Prize."

"Their achievements show how taking on the biggest questions can
establish new fields of inquiry, promote technology, innovation, and
expand the boundaries of what is possible," she continued. "Their work is
a reminder of why the president often says that the - America can be
defined by one word, and you all know that word that he uses is
`possibilities.'"

Meanwhile, the one word Karine Jean-Pierre was using was "noble." As in,
not "Nobel":

Jean-Pierre calls the Nobel Prize the "Noble Prize" four times.
pic.twitter.com/Zw0TRNxqiz

- Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 28, 2022

Just so we're clear, here's how you're supposed to say it:

https://youtu.be/_IZsKMMeKrY

Like president, like press secretary, apparently. Here's the relevant
section of Monday's news briefing, just so you can make out she messed up
the pronunciation numerous times without actually sticking the landing
once:

https://youtu.be/0As9gYmIO8g

Keep in mind, too, that Jean-Pierre used to work for the campaign and
administration of a Nobel prize winner: Barack Obama, who was awarded the
Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 for winning an election.

As her bio page at Columbia University noted, she "served as the Regional
Political Director for the White House Office of Political Affairs. Prior
to joining the Obama Administration, she worked on the Obama for America
campaign in 2008 as the Southeast Regional Political Director."

I mean, in fairness, Obama's Nobel Prize was finally the point where the
world realized just how debased and insane the process of selecting the
peace-prize winner really was.

The awardees Biden met with on Monday had to actually do something to
earn the honor, so maybe Jean-Pierre figured it was different.

Or maybe it's just that Jean-Pierre was proving the press secretary apple
doesn't fall far from the presidential tree, considering her boss' very
public problems with public speaking:

Is everything okay?

We carried Presdient Biden's Ukraine remarks live on
@FaulknerFocus today. #kleptocracy pic.twitter.com/aINZImChEy
- HARRISFAULKNER (@HARRISFAULKNER) April 29, 2022

Biden: *silence* . "I'm having trouble reading this"

Painful to watch.pic.twitter.com/NaCmT9XmlF
- Daily Wire (@realDailyWire) November 14, 2022

BIDEN: "Help turbocharge the emer-the ener, the, the-excuse me-
turbocharge the emerging global clean ener-clean energy economy."

"I was reading their quote. Sorry." pic.twitter.com/3XFbJN9BqU
- RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 11, 2022

BIDEN: "9.5 million turkeys! I tell ya what, that's like some of
the countries I've been to and they - anyway. *looks at turkey*
you wanna talk?" pic.twitter.com/GgsRkr23nZ
- RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 21, 2022

What he said. All of it.

Is this really the best the Biden administration can field? Yes, we know
the president is a gaffe machine - but we're supposed to pretend he's
not, and when we can't pretend that, we're supposed to pretend his gaffes
are the result of a childhood stutter. Nothing to see there. Shh.

At least we all know the president's mistakes are attributable to the
ravages of age, even if there's a tacit cultural injunction against
saying it. What's Jean-Pierre's excuse? She's not the 80-year-old, after
all, and every reasonably educated American youth over the age of 10
knows the correct pronunciation of "Nobel."

Not the White House press secretary, though. It's enough to make you want
to circle back to the days of Jen Psaki.

--
Let's go Brandon!

On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 15:14:34 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>On 11/30/2022 2:39 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:50:19 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> But no one's standing over the bussed voters to ensure that they vote
>>>> for one party over another. They're simply getting them there.
>>>
>>> So, a voter could lie about which way he'll vote, just to get the free
>>> ride? Hey, look, we've invented a new kind of "voter fraud"!...
>>
>> Why would they have to lie? As I said previously my grandfather was a
>> federal candidate 50 years ago and his people didn't expect anything
>> from their passengers besides "thank you for the ride". If they made
>> it clear how they DID vote then his staff took note of that but had
>> instructions NOT to ask.
>>
>> A higher voter turnout was considered to be a positive social good -
>> hopefully we still do
>
>Yeah, I'm just being fanciful and sarcastic. Afaics, *all* measures
>undertaken to ensure the "integrity" of the vote are purely partisan.

I don't agree - how is the box on the income tax form (admittedly I'm
talking the Canadian T1 tax form rather than the equivalent US 1040
form) authorizing the tax people to release your information to the
voter registration people partisan?

I for one would be delighted to have the 95+% voter turnout rate
enjoyed by Australia though am not willing to impose Australian style
mandatory voting legislation to get it.

Obviously I would prefer my chosen party win most of the elections but
either way a very high voter turnout rate says good things about the
state of society at large. I >want< my fellow citizens to be engaged
and not just accept uncritically the pap that qualifies for news these
days.