On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:03:44 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 3:59:34 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> > > Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
> > > sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
> > > know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
> > > hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
>
> > As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
> > drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
> > rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
> > slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
> I came across one site which said European road signs were governed
> by the Vienna Convention, which dated from 1978. However, that let me find
> _this_ Wikipedia article,
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals
>
> which notes that the 1978 agreement was negotiated in 1968, even if it came
> into force ten years later, and it was a successor to previous agreements in
> 1949 and 1931. I will need to look some more to see if the slashed circle dates
> from 1949 or 1931.

This image

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Geneva_Road_Signals_Convention_1931_-_Table_2_(Romania).png

suggests that the slashed circle was part of the Geneva Convention on the Unification
of Road Signs and Signals, which was ratified in 1931, and came into force in 1934.

So there you have it.

John Savard

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:15:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Another candidate might be McGuire and Piper's _Revolt in 2140_,

Actually, looking at the cover, the title is "Crisis in 2140". That enabled me
to find the work with a search, and also to learn that it was later republished
as "Null-ABC".

So we have a Van Vogt reference, but _not_ a strong resemblance to the
title Signet used for a Heinlein collection including "If This Goes On...".
(Revolt in 2100, of course.)

John Savard

In article <robertaw-4729B7.22025030082021@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <qynzLM.17EI@kithrup.com>,
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article <sgishd$md3$1@panix1.panix.com>, <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
>> >Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
>> >https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-book
>> >s/
>>
>> Another candidate might be McGuire and Piper's _Revolt in 2140_,
>> about which I remember very little, except that Literates (with a
>> capital L) are a privileged minority and the Illiterates are
>> interested in wiping them out. And their little books, too.
>
>I will point out that the story takes place in 2142 (past Presidential
>election was in 2140, mid-term election coming up). Also, AFAICT, it was
>the only Piper story that wasn't reprinted by Ace in the late 70s and
>early 80s.
>
>--
>"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
>Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.

Ace also passed on Murder in the Gunroom.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <b331e5ce-28c7-4bfd-9bd6-4d20ccab82c9n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
>> sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
>> know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
>> hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
>
>As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
>drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
>rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
>slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.

You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
US then.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <164b0282-64a0-4b1e-8045-c4e247c6b895n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 3:59:34 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> > Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
>> > sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
>> > know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
>> > hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
>
>> As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
>> drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
>> rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
>> slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
>
>I came across one site which said European road signs were governed
>by the Vienna Convention, which dated from 1978. However, that let me find
>_this_ Wikipedia article,
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals
>
>which notes that the 1978 agreement was negotiated in 1968, even if it came
>into force ten years later, and it was a successor to previous agreements in
>1949 and 1931. I will need to look some more to see if the slashed circle dates
>from 1949 or 1931.

Interesting. And the graphic indicates that the US (and Canada)
are still not signatories, even though the slashed circle has
permeated our culture.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <05d508a9-19f3-490f-965b-5764a8487fbbn@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:03:44 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 3:59:34 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>> > > Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
>> > > sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
>> > > know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
>> > > hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
>>
>> > As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
>> > drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
>> > rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
>> > slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
>> I came across one site which said European road signs were governed
>> by the Vienna Convention, which dated from 1978. However, that let me find
>> _this_ Wikipedia article,
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals
>>
>> which notes that the 1978 agreement was negotiated in 1968, even if it came
>> into force ten years later, and it was a successor to previous agreements in
>> 1949 and 1931. I will need to look some more to see if the slashed
>circle dates
>> from 1949 or 1931.
>
>This image
>
>https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Geneva_Road_Signals_Convention_1931_-_Table_2_(Romania).png
>
>suggests that the slashed circle was part of the Geneva Convention on
>the Unification
>of Road Signs and Signals, which was ratified in 1931, and came into
>force in 1934.
>
>So there you have it.

Incidentally, ISFDB mentions that the cover, not credited, was by
Ed Emshwiller, usually signed "EMSH".

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 9:12:49 AM UTC-6, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/

Genetic Soldier by George Turner also involves an important library.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <b331e5ce-28c7-4bfd...@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >
> >> Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
> >> sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
> >> know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
> >> hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
> >
> >As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
> >drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
> >rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
> >slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
> You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
> it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
> US then.

It was new to me in 1965, when I moved to Europe, but well-established
and ubiquitous there.

pt

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:11:08 -0700 (PDT), John Halpenny
<j.halpenny@rogers.com> wrote:

>On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:00:51 PM UTC-4, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> On 8/30/2021 3:37 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:15:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >
>> >> I found a thumbnail of both covers, but I can't expand it enough
>> >> to see what he's got besides weaponry and a scowl.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?16205
>> >
>> > If you click on the thumbnail, you do get a larger version of the cover.
>> >
>> > But I can't figure out what that gadget with three buttons under his
>> > chin and apparently attached to his helmet might be.
>> >
>
>
>Don't some heavy duty scanners in real life cut off the bindings to speed up the process? Of course, you still have a pile of random pages left over.

Sounds like the library digitization process described in /Rainbows
End/ (Vernor Vinge): the contents are sliced up into teeny-tiny pieces
which are scanned individually and digitally recombined according to
context.

The demonstration against this gets so out of hand that one of the
characters, who has The Duty that night, contemplating Nuclear Carpet
Bombing as a solution.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <sgjc46$qec$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdnicoll@panix.com wrote:
>>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
>>>>
>>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
>>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
>>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
>>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
>>
>>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
>
>Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
>is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
>off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
>book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
>it wouldn't be a very strong binding.

Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
(scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
all mixed up, IIRC.

This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
"from context". I don't think it would be practical today.

--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <brlsigdfvmpi3g3p5e5mu9km6ffaql8l46@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >Heydt) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdnicoll@panix.com wrote:
> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> >>>>
> >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-bo
> >>>oks/
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> >>
> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> >
> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
>
> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> all mixed up, IIRC.
>
> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.

I believe that it is being done with scraps of papyrus that has been
found in millennia old trash heaps in Egypt. I don't know how much
progress is being made.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:11:10 PM UTC-4, John Halpenny wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:00:51 PM UTC-4, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> > On 8/30/2021 3:37 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:15:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > >
> > >> I found a thumbnail of both covers, but I can't expand it enough
> > >> to see what he's got besides weaponry and a scowl.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?16205
> > >
> > > If you click on the thumbnail, you do get a larger version of the cover.
> > >
> > > But I can't figure out what that gadget with three buttons under his
> > > chin and apparently attached to his helmet might be.
> > >
> Don't some heavy duty scanners in real life cut off the bindings to speed up the process? Of course, you still have a pile of random pages left over.

I've actually done this. I have a printer/scanner with a page feeder, which scans and OCRs both sides of a document. It works, but, as noted,
destroys the book. Don't use it on rare ones.

pt

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
> it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
> US then.

In Canada, we don't use European-style road signs either. The only way I
typically see it is in symbolic "no smoking" signs, and they started turning
up later on, back when cities started adopting ordinances to limit smoking,
which may have been in the late 'sixties or early 'seventies.

But at least now you know that if you see a modern European style road
sign in a World War II movie, it isn't because they did their research
badly.

John Savard

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:11:10 PM UTC-4, John Halpenny wrote:
>> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:00:51 PM UTC-4, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> > On 8/30/2021 3:37 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:15:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I found a thumbnail of both covers, but I can't expand it enough
>> > >> to see what he's got besides weaponry and a scowl.
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?16205
>> > >
>> > > If you click on the thumbnail, you do get a larger version of the cover.
>> > >
>> > > But I can't figure out what that gadget with three buttons under his
>> > > chin and apparently attached to his helmet might be.
>> > >
>> Don't some heavy duty scanners in real life cut off the bindings to speed up the process? Of course, you still have a pile of random pages left over.
>
>I've actually done this. I have a printer/scanner with a page feeder, which scans and OCRs both sides of a document. It works, but, as noted,
>destroys the book. Don't use it on rare ones.

Google books uses an IR camera based scanner.

https://www.npr.org/sections/library/2009/04/the_granting_of_patent_7508978.html

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:25:07 PM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've actually done this. I have a printer/scanner with a page feeder,
> which scans and OCRs both sides of a document. It works, but, as noted,
> destroys the book. Don't use it on rare ones.

Oh, indeed. I wish I had a paint program that would do the appropriate
geometrical transformatiion to handle the gutters of intact books...

John Savard

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 1:16:56 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <brlsigdfvmpi3g3p5...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> > <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> > >Heydt) wrote:
> > >
> > >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com>
> > >>wrote:
> > >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> > >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> > >>>>
> > >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-bo
> > >>>oks/
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> > >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> > >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> > >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> > >>
> > >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> > >
> > >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> > >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> > >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> > >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> > >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
> >
> > Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> > (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> > all mixed up, IIRC.
> >
> > This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> > "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.
> I believe that it is being done with scraps of papyrus that has been
> found in millennia old trash heaps in Egypt. I don't know how much
> progress is being made.

Perhaps you're thinking of the Ancient Lives project, which isn't using
computers for matching, but is crowdsourcing the transcription of
Ptolomaic Greek texts from the the Oxyrhynchus middens.
https://www.ancientlives.org/

There's also this project, using AI on cuniform texts.
https://techxplore.com/news/2019-07-artificial-intelligence-gaps-ancient-texts.html

....and this, using 3D scanning to test fitting shattered fragments together.
https://phys.org/news/2018-02-long-distance-reconstruction-cultural-artefact.html

Not really related, but a technological tour de force:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-scrolls-blackened-vesuvius-are-readable-last-herculaneum-papyri-180953950/
work continues:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-80458-z

pt

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 2:34:20 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:11:10 PM UTC-4, John Halpenny wrote:
> >> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:00:51 PM UTC-4, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> >> > On 8/30/2021 3:37 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:15:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> I found a thumbnail of both covers, but I can't expand it enough
> >> > >> to see what he's got besides weaponry and a scowl.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?16205
> >> > >
> >> > > If you click on the thumbnail, you do get a larger version of the cover.
> >> > >
> >> > > But I can't figure out what that gadget with three buttons under his
> >> > > chin and apparently attached to his helmet might be.
> >> > >
> >> Don't some heavy duty scanners in real life cut off the bindings to speed up the process? Of course, you still have a pile of random pages left over.
> >
> >I've actually done this. I have a printer/scanner with a page feeder, which scans and OCRs both sides of a document. It works, but, as noted,
> >destroys the book. Don't use it on rare ones.
> Google books uses an IR camera based scanner.
>
> https://www.npr.org/sections/library/2009/04/the_granting_of_patent_7508978.html

If you look at a lot of Google Books scans, you'll start to notice that some include the operator's
fingers, holding down the pages.

I've seen better systems, which only open the book 90 degrees, and use different cameras for the
recto and verso pages. Making a machine that can accurately turn a single page, without damaging
the book, is apparently quite difficult.

pt

In article <7d1fdd53-0847-4004-90ab-3d24a69f4b95n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
>> it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
>> US then.
>
>In Canada, we don't use European-style road signs either. The only way I
>typically see it is in symbolic "no smoking" signs, and they started turning
>up later on, back when cities started adopting ordinances to limit smoking,
>which may have been in the late 'sixties or early 'seventies.
>
>But at least now you know that if you see a modern European style road
>sign in a World War II movie, it isn't because they did their research
>badly.

Let me guess.

It's because the local authorities would not allow the signs to
be removed, thus endangering the populace?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 17:27:00 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >Heydt) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> >>>>
> >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> >>
> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> >
> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> all mixed up, IIRC.
>
> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.

The real life application of the method is to restore
destructively shredded documents.

I do not see a composition date on web page about East German files
<https://www.ironcurtainproject.eu/en/stories/apologies-from-a-minister-president/45-million-stasi-archive-shreds-glue-that/>
and reading closely, they wore their shredding machines out
and resorted to tearing up records by hand. So, not exactly
what I thought.

Call that restoration effort anti-espionage, but
actual espionage may be where the money is in it,
not social history.

On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 19:37:35 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:25:07 PM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I've actually done this. I have a printer/scanner with a page feeder,
> > which scans and OCRs both sides of a document. It works, but, as noted,
> > destroys the book. Don't use it on rare ones.
> Oh, indeed. I wish I had a paint program that would do the appropriate
> geometrical transformatiion to handle the gutters of intact books...

That should be a solved problem by now. Text lines
are expected to be straight... and not out of focus.
Searching (straighten text scan) lists many options.
They may take money or effort though.

Are you just trying to make scanned pages comfortably
readable by humans?

Quite a long time ago, I tried out OCR at home.
Computer text recognition was improved greatly
by altering the scanned image to make text lines
horizontal instead of slightly diagonal. At the time
I found it very disappointing that the OCR software
needed that help. But I think it wasn't the latest.

On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 19:34:06 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> > You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
> > it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
> > US then.
> In Canada, we don't use European-style road signs either. The only way I
> typically see it is in symbolic "no smoking" signs, and they started turning
> up later on, back when cities started adopting ordinances to limit smoking,
> which may have been in the late 'sixties or early 'seventies.
>
> But at least now you know that if you see a modern European style road
> sign in a World War II movie, it isn't because they did their research
> badly.

<https://www.usmbooks.com/focke_wulf_fliegerkalender.html>
claims to show, lower down, a handy 1939 chart of Nazi road signs.

Now I just have to worry about Google asking why I was
asking for them.

I think this is a diary and reference book for German pilots.
Flying low enough to read highway signage may have been
more acceptable then than now, but it's still cheating.

England took down signs around this time to make it difficult
if the enemy invaded, Germany may have done so later, but I
assume they left in one way streets and such... or perhaps not?

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 2:10:04 PM UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <b331e5ce-28c7-4bfd...@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >
> >> Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
> >> sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
> >> know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
> >> hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
> >
> >As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
> >drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
> >rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
> >slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
> You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
> it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
> US then.
> --
> Dorothy J. Heydt
> Vallejo, California
> djheydt at gmail dot com
> Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

https://www.pinterest.ie/pin/352617845795206535/ - refers to it in use 1944 in the UK. I remember seeing them in the 50's in Ireland leaving towns.

Des

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 19:54:45 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <7d1fdd53-0847-4004-90ab-3d24a69f4b95n@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
>>> it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
>>> US then.
>>
>>In Canada, we don't use European-style road signs either. The only way I
>>typically see it is in symbolic "no smoking" signs, and they started turning
>>up later on, back when cities started adopting ordinances to limit smoking,
>>which may have been in the late 'sixties or early 'seventies.
>>
>>But at least now you know that if you see a modern European style road
>>sign in a World War II movie, it isn't because they did their research
>>badly.
>
>Let me guess.
>
>It's because the local authorities would not allow the signs to
>be removed, thus endangering the populace?

I think it was determined earlier that the "modern" signage dates to
the 1930s.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 19:34:06 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>> > You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
>> > it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
>> > US then.
>> In Canada, we don't use European-style road signs either. The only way I
>> typically see it is in symbolic "no smoking" signs, and they started turning
>> up later on, back when cities started adopting ordinances to limit smoking,
>> which may have been in the late 'sixties or early 'seventies.
>>
>> But at least now you know that if you see a modern European style road
>> sign in a World War II movie, it isn't because they did their research
>> badly.
>
><https://www.usmbooks.com/focke_wulf_fliegerkalender.html>
>claims to show, lower down, a handy 1939 chart of Nazi road signs.
>
>Now I just have to worry about Google asking why I was
>asking for them.
>
>I think this is a diary and reference book for German pilots.
>Flying low enough to read highway signage may have been
>more acceptable then than now, but it's still cheating.

IFR--depending on where you are, it can mean "I Follow Road" or "I
Follow River".

>England took down signs around this time to make it difficult
>if the enemy invaded, Germany may have done so later, but I
>assume they left in one way streets and such... or perhaps not?

On 8/31/2021 1:44 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 19:34:06 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> You may be right. In 1952 I was ten years old and had never seen
>>> it, so I'm assuming that it had not reached the obstinately monolingual
>>> US then.
>> In Canada, we don't use European-style road signs either. The only way I
>> typically see it is in symbolic "no smoking" signs, and they started turning
>> up later on, back when cities started adopting ordinances to limit smoking,
>> which may have been in the late 'sixties or early 'seventies.
>>
>> But at least now you know that if you see a modern European style road
>> sign in a World War II movie, it isn't because they did their research
>> badly.
>
> <https://www.usmbooks.com/focke_wulf_fliegerkalender.html>
> claims to show, lower down, a handy 1939 chart of Nazi road signs.
>
> Now I just have to worry about Google asking why I was
> asking for them.
>
> I think this is a diary and reference book for German pilots.
> Flying low enough to read highway signage may have been
> more acceptable then than now, but it's still cheating.
>
> England took down signs around this time to make it difficult
> if the enemy invaded, Germany may have done so later, but I
> assume they left in one way streets and such... or perhaps not?
>
No reason to do so. Its not like a tank commander is going to go "Oh
shoot, I want to go down that street to shoot the enemy but its a one
way street the other way. Guess I'll have to go around."

You would take down direction signs (arrow with a town name) or street
name signs.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.