On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 10:35:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <828e4e9d-11c8-4509...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 12:00:31 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 17:27:00 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >> >> >Heydt) wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G
> ><no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >>>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> >> >> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> >> >> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> >> >> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> >> >> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> >> >> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> >> >> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> >> >> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
> >> >> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> >> >> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> >> >> all mixed up, IIRC.
> >> >>
> >> >> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> >> >> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.
> >> >
> >> >The real life application of the method is to restore
> >> >destructively shredded documents.
> >> >
> >> >I do not see a composition date on web page about East German files
> >>
> >><https://www.ironcurtainproject.eu/en/stories/apologies-from-a-minister-president/45-million-stasi-archive-shreds-glue-that/>
> >> >and reading closely, they wore their shredding machines out
> >> >and resorted to tearing up records by hand. So, not exactly
> >> >what I thought.
> >> >
> >> >Call that restoration effort anti-espionage, but
> >> >actual espionage may be where the money is in it,
> >> >not social history.
> >> That film about rescuing Canadians from Iran (/Argo/???)
> >
> >Not as good as the one where Washington punches out George III on
> >Dover beach, when America in 1778 comes to the rescue of a hard-pressed
> >France.
> >
> >Loved that movie.
> Are you talking about a real movie? Set in an alternate universe
> but filmed in ours???

I was being sarcastic, I fear. I made up a movie that was about as accurate a portrayal of history as the above.

Mr Person is not to be blamed. Argo was already a massive distortion of reality, his memories only completed the process.

A better choice by me would have been a Dutch film in which they liberated Canada from the Nazis in 1945.

Besides, everyone knows George III had a powerful right arm. He went 23 rounds in a bare-knuckle fight against Gentleman Jim Corbett in 1759, one of the events that made that an "Annus Mirabilis".

Yes, I am harvesting mushrooms from a nearby wood. Why do you ask?

William Hyde

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 12:06:12 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 12:00:31 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 17:27:00 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >> >> >Heydt) wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> >> >> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> >> >> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> >> >> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> >> >> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> >> >> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> >> >> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> >> >> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
> >> >> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> >> >> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> >> >> all mixed up, IIRC.
> >> >>
> >> >> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> >> >> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.
> >> >
> >> >The real life application of the method is to restore
> >> >destructively shredded documents.
> >> >
> >> >I do not see a composition date on web page about East German files
> >> ><https://www.ironcurtainproject.eu/en/stories/apologies-from-a-minister-president/45-million-stasi-archive-shreds-glue-that/>
> >> >and reading closely, they wore their shredding machines out
> >> >and resorted to tearing up records by hand. So, not exactly
> >> >what I thought.
> >> >
> >> >Call that restoration effort anti-espionage, but
> >> >actual espionage may be where the money is in it,
> >> >not social history.
> >> That film about rescuing Canadians from Iran (/Argo/???)
> >
> >Not as good as the one where Washington punches out George III on
> >Dover beach, when America in 1778 comes to the rescue of a hard-pressed
> >France.
> >
> >Loved that movie.
> As Dorothy has asked, twice, what movie are you referring to?
>
> I'm not sure where the comparison lies. The film I am thinking of is
> supposed to be "based" (that is, "at least vaguely related to") on
> actual events. Yours appears to be in direct contradiction to actual
> events.
>
> Were there no embassy personnel that escaped capture in Iran? Were
> they not Canadian? Were they, for example, Americans who were hiding
> in the Canadian Embassy and I simply confused myself?

Yes, but you are not alone.

William Hyde

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 10:06:12 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:

> Were there no embassy personnel that escaped capture in Iran? Were
> they not Canadian? Were they, for example, Americans who were hiding
> in the Canadian Embassy and I simply confused myself?

They were indeed Americans hiding in the Canadian Embassy.

John Savard

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 11:44:17 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:

> The movie was based on actual events, and people I know in the
> intelligence community who should know say that it wasn't terribly
> inaccurate except in drastically downplaying how much the Canadians
> did to assist in the escape.

There was also the movie U-571 - based on the British capture of an Enigma machine
from a German submarine (U-559), but in the movie, the Americans did it.

John Savard

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 12:06:12 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 12:00:31 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 17:27:00 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >> >> >Heydt) wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> >> >> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> >> >> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> >> >> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> >> >> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> >> >> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> >> >> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> >> >> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
> >> >> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> >> >> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> >> >> all mixed up, IIRC.
> >> >>
> >> >> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> >> >> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.
> >> >
> >> >The real life application of the method is to restore
> >> >destructively shredded documents.
> >> >
> >> >I do not see a composition date on web page about East German files
> >> ><https://www.ironcurtainproject.eu/en/stories/apologies-from-a-minister-president/45-million-stasi-archive-shreds-glue-that/>
> >> >and reading closely, they wore their shredding machines out
> >> >and resorted to tearing up records by hand. So, not exactly
> >> >what I thought.
> >> >
> >> >Call that restoration effort anti-espionage, but
> >> >actual espionage may be where the money is in it,
> >> >not social history.
> >> That film about rescuing Canadians from Iran (/Argo/???)
> >
> >Not as good as the one where Washington punches out George III on
> >Dover beach, when America in 1778 comes to the rescue of a hard-pressed
> >France.
> >
> >Loved that movie.
> As Dorothy has asked, twice, what movie are you referring to?
>
> I'm not sure where the comparison lies. The film I am thinking of is
> supposed to be "based" (that is, "at least vaguely related to") on
> actual events. Yours appears to be in direct contradiction to actual
> events.
>
> Were there no embassy personnel that escaped capture in Iran? Were
> they not Canadian? Were they, for example, Americans who were hiding
> in the Canadian Embassy and I simply confused myself?

In short, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argo_(2012_film)

I've seen the movie. It's OK, but I'm also told that the Canadians
had a much bigger role in the escape than the film indicates.

The film in the film 'Argo', was based on Zelazny's 'Lord of Light'.
They had a script, and rough storyboards.

pt

On Thu, 02 Sep 2021 10:44:09 -0700, Lawrence Watt-Evans
<misenchantedpress@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Sep 2021 09:05:38 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
>><wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 12:00:31 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 17:27:00 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>> >> >Heydt) wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>>>> >> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
>>>> >> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
>>>> >> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
>>>> >> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
>>>> >> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
>>>> >> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
>>>> >> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
>>>> >> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
>>>> >> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
>>>> >> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
>>>> >> all mixed up, IIRC.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
>>>> >> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.
>>>> >
>>>> >The real life application of the method is to restore
>>>> >destructively shredded documents.
>>>> >
>>>> >I do not see a composition date on web page about East German files
>>>> ><https://www.ironcurtainproject.eu/en/stories/apologies-from-a-minister-president/45-million-stasi-archive-shreds-glue-that/>
>>>> >and reading closely, they wore their shredding machines out
>>>> >and resorted to tearing up records by hand. So, not exactly
>>>> >what I thought.
>>>> >
>>>> >Call that restoration effort anti-espionage, but
>>>> >actual espionage may be where the money is in it,
>>>> >not social history.
>>>> That film about rescuing Canadians from Iran (/Argo/???)
>>>
>>>Not as good as the one where Washington punches out George III on
>>>Dover beach, when America in 1778 comes to the rescue of a hard-pressed
>>>France.
>>>
>>>Loved that movie.
>>
>>As Dorothy has asked, twice, what movie are you referring to?
>>
>>I'm not sure where the comparison lies. The film I am thinking of is
>>supposed to be "based" (that is, "at least vaguely related to") on
>>actual events. Yours appears to be in direct contradiction to actual
>>events.
>>
>>Were there no embassy personnel that escaped capture in Iran? Were
>>they not Canadian? Were they, for example, Americans who were hiding
>>in the Canadian Embassy and I simply confused myself?
>
>They were Americans hiding in the Canadian embassy. The movie's title
>is "Argo," and it's of interest to SF fans because the cover story the
>rescuers use is that they're working on a movie, and as I recall the
>prop production sketches used in the film were from a real-life
>unsuccessful attempt to make a movie of Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light.
>
>(Or possibly those sketches were used in the actual rescue, not the
>movie? I forget.)

There were movie-related items used to get past the guards at the end.

Also an amazing plot summary, apprently impromptu, by a character who
had been very negative about the entire rescue. Basically, this worked
because the summary tallied very well with the recent revolution from
the viewpoint that the rebels were the heroes. This pleased the
relevant guard very much; I'm sure he was very disappointed when the
film never appeared.

>The movie was based on actual events, and people I know in the
>intelligence community who should know say that it wasn't terribly
>inaccurate except in drastically downplaying how much the Canadians
>did to assist in the escape.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2021 09:05:38 -0700, Paul S Person
> <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> ><wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 12:00:31 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 17:27:00 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:25:58 -0400, J. Clarke
> >>> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:36:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >>> >> >Heydt) wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >>In article <sgjc46$qec$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>> >> >>>On 31/08/21 3:12 am, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> >>> >> >>>> Five Works About Preserving or Destroying Books
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>https://www.tor.com/2021/08/30/five-works-about-preserving-or-destroying-books/
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>Although not the main theme, Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" details the
> >>> >> >>>procedures whereby every book in a library is destroyed by an
> >>> >> >>>eviscerating machine which photographs every torn piece and reproduces
> >>> >> >>>every book electronically. So, both preserving and destroying.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>Does he give any reason why it's necessary to do it that way?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >Probably realistic. A commonplace way to store a book electronically
> >>> >> >is to clamp it between a couple of pieces of plywood, saw the spine
> >>> >> >off, then run the separated pages through a scanner. Of course the
> >>> >> >book isn't good for much after that. I guess it could be rebound but
> >>> >> >it wouldn't be a very strong binding.
> >>> >> Ah ... but in /Rainbow's End/ it isn't pages that are photographed
> >>> >> (scanned/digitized), it is bits of pages. Which are blown about and
> >>> >> all mixed up, IIRC.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> This requires an AI able to fit the individual bits together properly
> >>> >> "from context". I don't think it would be practical today.
> >>> >
> >>> >The real life application of the method is to restore
> >>> >destructively shredded documents.
> >>> >
> >>> >I do not see a composition date on web page about East German files
> >>> ><https://www.ironcurtainproject.eu/en/stories/apologies-from-a-minister-president/45-million-stasi-archive-shreds-glue-that/>
> >>> >and reading closely, they wore their shredding machines out
> >>> >and resorted to tearing up records by hand. So, not exactly
> >>> >what I thought.
> >>> >
> >>> >Call that restoration effort anti-espionage, but
> >>> >actual espionage may be where the money is in it,
> >>> >not social history.
> >>> That film about rescuing Canadians from Iran (/Argo/???)

> They were Americans hiding in the Canadian embassy. The movie's title
> is "Argo," and it's of interest to SF fans because the cover story the
> rescuers use is that they're working on a movie, and as I recall the
> prop production sketches used in the film were from a real-life
> unsuccessful attempt to make a movie of Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light.
>
> (Or possibly those sketches were used in the actual rescue, not the
> movie? I forget.)

The sketches used in development of the Lords of Light movie (and the amusement park the sets were to be converted into after filming!) were by Jack Kirby, presumably the whole package was picked up by the government for their fake movie. The sketches used in the movie "Argo" were not Kirby's, nor even in an imitation of his style. This is understandable, not opening legal negotiations of rights issues and payments (unless those drawings are now part of public documents?), but slightly disappointing.

--
-Jack

Andrew Love wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 2:47:17 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>
> > >
> > There was a story I read years ago set in a future where all books,
> > except those carefully hidden, had been destroyed. After the fall
> > of the anti-book regime, the surviving books were all massively copied
> > and venerated.
> >
> > I completely forget the main plot after that, but there was a funny bit
> > of business between two characters that went something like this:
> >
> > I mean, really Bob, I think everyone knows on some level
> > that _Punish Me With Scorpions_ was not hidden in the
> > floorboards to preserve its pungent philosophical analysis
> > of the problem on pain in a universe with a caring God, no
> > matter what they say in public.
> > --
> This rings a bell - I think I read it in Analog? Book aficionados of the future were obsessed with getting the same old detective novels in new formats and character sets, but no one seemed to write actual new books, right?

For years I've had the title "Pixie Dixon and the Case of the Haunted Playpen" stuck in my mind. This may be the only time it is of use!

Our viewpoint character had taught himself to read, and write -if only in block letters- from signs around that just hadn't been taken down. He produced the impressive demonstration "your lunch is radioactive".

--
-Jack

In article <b3075c2a-da7a-41b0-8e93-b1137162c169n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Andrew Love wrote:
>> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 2:47:17 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>
>> > >
>> > There was a story I read years ago set in a future where all books,
>> > except those carefully hidden, had been destroyed. After the fall
>> > of the anti-book regime, the surviving books were all massively copied
>> > and venerated.
>> >
>> > I completely forget the main plot after that, but there was a funny bit
>> > of business between two characters that went something like this:
>> >
>> > I mean, really Bob, I think everyone knows on some level
>> > that _Punish Me With Scorpions_ was not hidden in the
>> > floorboards to preserve its pungent philosophical analysis
>> > of the problem on pain in a universe with a caring God, no
>> > matter what they say in public.
>> > --
>> This rings a bell - I think I read it in Analog? Book aficionados of
>the future were obsessed with getting the same old detective novels in
>new formats and character sets, but no one seemed to write actual new
>books, right?
>
>For years I've had the title "Pixie Dixon and the Case of the Haunted
>Playpen" stuck in my mind. This may be the only time it is of use!
>
>Our viewpoint character had taught himself to read, and write -if only
>in block letters- from signs around that just hadn't been taken down.
>He produced the impressive demonstration "your lunch is radioactive".
>
>--
>-Jack
>

Tarzan memorably taught himself to read from his parents' journals.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 3 Sep 2021 17:50:19 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
wrote:

>In article <b3075c2a-da7a-41b0-8e93-b1137162c169n@googlegroups.com>,
>Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Andrew Love wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 2:47:17 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>
>>> > >
>>> > There was a story I read years ago set in a future where all books,
>>> > except those carefully hidden, had been destroyed. After the fall
>>> > of the anti-book regime, the surviving books were all massively copied
>>> > and venerated.
>>> >
>>> > I completely forget the main plot after that, but there was a funny bit
>>> > of business between two characters that went something like this:
>>> >
>>> > I mean, really Bob, I think everyone knows on some level
>>> > that _Punish Me With Scorpions_ was not hidden in the
>>> > floorboards to preserve its pungent philosophical analysis
>>> > of the problem on pain in a universe with a caring God, no
>>> > matter what they say in public.
>>> > --
>>> This rings a bell - I think I read it in Analog? Book aficionados of
>>the future were obsessed with getting the same old detective novels in
>>new formats and character sets, but no one seemed to write actual new
>>books, right?
>>
>>For years I've had the title "Pixie Dixon and the Case of the Haunted
>>Playpen" stuck in my mind. This may be the only time it is of use!
>>
>>Our viewpoint character had taught himself to read, and write -if only
>>in block letters- from signs around that just hadn't been taken down.
>>He produced the impressive demonstration "your lunch is radioactive".
>>
>>--
>>-Jack
>>
>
>Tarzan memorably taught himself to read from his parents' journals.

I think he actually learned from some of the books they left--I
remember he made up his own language in which bugs featured
prominently as a conceptual framework, and printed English bears more
resemblance to a collection of bugs than does Spencerian manuscript.

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:18:48 PM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Andrew Love wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 2:47:17 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > There was a story I read years ago set in a future where all books,
> > > except those carefully hidden, had been destroyed. After the fall
> > > of the anti-book regime, the surviving books were all massively copied
> > > and venerated.
> > >
> > > I completely forget the main plot after that, but there was a funny bit
> > > of business between two characters that went something like this:
> > >
> > > I mean, really Bob, I think everyone knows on some level
> > > that _Punish Me With Scorpions_ was not hidden in the
> > > floorboards to preserve its pungent philosophical analysis
> > > of the problem on pain in a universe with a caring God, no
> > > matter what they say in public.
> > > --
> > This rings a bell - I think I read it in Analog? Book aficionados of the future were obsessed with getting the same old detective novels in new formats and character sets, but no one seemed to write actual new books, right?
> For years I've had the title "Pixie Dixon and the Case of the Haunted Playpen" stuck in my mind. This may be the only time it is of use!
>
> Our viewpoint character had taught himself to read, and write -if only in block letters- from signs around that just hadn't been taken down. He produced the impressive demonstration "your lunch is radioactive".
>
Thank you very much!

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 12:15:40 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> I think he actually learned from some of the books they left--I
> remember he made up his own language in which bugs featured
> prominently as a conceptual framework,

He made up his own names for the letters of the alphabet, yes.

The words "bu" and "mu" for male and female were from the language
of the Mangani, and he applied them to capital letters and small letters
respectively. So, with G being "la", O being "tu", and D being "mo", in his
verbal notation for English text, he referred to God as "Bulamutumumo",
as noted in "Jungle Tales of Tarzan".

And he indeed called those little letters on the page "bugs".

John Savard

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 6:08:43 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:03:44 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 3:59:34 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >
> > > > Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
> > > > sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
> > > > know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
> > > > hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
> >
> > > As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
> > > drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
> > > rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
> > > slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
> > I came across one site which said European road signs were governed
> > by the Vienna Convention, which dated from 1978. However, that let me find
> > _this_ Wikipedia article,
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals
> >
> > which notes that the 1978 agreement was negotiated in 1968, even if it came
> > into force ten years later, and it was a successor to previous agreements in
> > 1949 and 1931. I will need to look some more to see if the slashed circle dates
> > from 1949 or 1931.
> This image
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Geneva_Road_Signals_Convention_1931_-_Table_2_(Romania).png
>
> suggests that the slashed circle was part of the Geneva Convention on the Unification
> of Road Signs and Signals, which was ratified in 1931, and came into force in 1934.
>
> So there you have it.
>

Big mistake. Nazi blitzkriegs could have been slowed by
different standards for each invaded country's road signs. :)

--
Kevin R

Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> schrieb:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 6:08:43 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:03:44 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 3:59:34 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >
>> > > > Me neither. But the pen and paper on his helmet are crossed by a
>> > > > sort of chevron. (It was 1952; the slashed circle was I don't
>> > > > know how far into the future then. Wikipeda gives several
>> > > > hundred examples, but declines to tell me when it came in.)
>> >
>> > > As it was originally used for traffic signs in Europe, so that people could
>> > > drive from one country to another without being unable to obey the
>> > > rules of the road expressed in a foreign language, I suspect that the
>> > > slashed circle was _not_ in the future, even in 1952.
>> > I came across one site which said European road signs were governed
>> > by the Vienna Convention, which dated from 1978. However, that let me find
>> > _this_ Wikipedia article,
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals
>> >
>> > which notes that the 1978 agreement was negotiated in 1968, even if it came
>> > into force ten years later, and it was a successor to previous agreements in
>> > 1949 and 1931. I will need to look some more to see if the slashed circle dates
>> > from 1949 or 1931.
>> This image
>>
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Geneva_Road_Signals_Convention_1931_-_Table_2_(Romania).png
>>
>> suggests that the slashed circle was part of the Geneva Convention on the Unification
>> of Road Signs and Signals, which was ratified in 1931, and came into force in 1934.
>>
>> So there you have it.
>>
>
> Big mistake. Nazi blitzkriegs could have been slowed by
> different standards for each invaded country's road signs. :)

IIRC, during the Battle of France, they even drove tanks across
a railway bridge, so it seems they didn't particularly care about
traffic rules. Shocking.

Quadibloc wrote:
> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
>> The movie was based on actual events, and people I know in the
>> intelligence community who should know say that it wasn't terribly
>> inaccurate except in drastically downplaying how much the Canadians
>> did to assist in the escape.
>
> There was also the movie U-571 - based on the British capture of an Enigma machine
> from a German submarine (U-559), but in the movie, the Americans did it.

Although U-559 makes a cameo appearance in _Cryptonomicon_ (Stephenson),
Göring’s treasure ship, U-553, plays the part of the prodigious,
plutocratic prize.

Waterhouse sent him to find a stethoscope, and Shaftoe went
chambering through the U-boat until he found a wooden box.
He opened it up and saw right away it was full of medic
stuff. He pawed through it, looking for what Waterhouse
wanted, and there was the bottle, plain as day, right in
front of his face. His hand brushed against it, for god's
sake. He saw the label as the beam of his flashlight swept
across it:

morphium.

But he didn't grab it. If it had said morphine he would
have grabbed it in a second. But it said morphium. And it
wasn't until about thirty seconds later that he realized
that this was a f*cking German boat and of course the words
would all be different and there was about a 99 percent
chance that morphium was, in fact, exactly the same stuff
as morphine. When he realized that he planted his feet in
the passageway of the darkened U-boat and let out a deep
long scream from way down in his gut. With the noise of
the waves, no one heard him. Then he continued onwards
and carried out his duty, handing over the stethoscope to
Waterhouse. He carried out his duty because he is a
Marine.

... (Shaftoe sets the fuse on explosives to blow the
U-boat's safe off the wall of the captain's cabin,
yells "Fire in the hole!" then scampers back towards
the bow to snag some substitute smack.) ...

There's that box-it ended up on a bunk. Shaftoe yanks it
closer and hauls it open. The contents are all jumbled up,
and there's more than one purple bottle in there, and he
panics for a moment, thinking he'll have to read all of
the labels in their creepy Germanic script, but in a few
seconds he finds the morphium, grabs it, pockets it.

... (A big roller slams into the outside of the boat ...
Everything has gone black) ...

As Sergeant Robert Shaftoe lies there with his face pressed
against that chilly grid, taking a few deep breaths and
trying to regain his nerve, a big wave rocks the boat back
so hard that he's afraid he's going to fall backwards and
plummet all the way to the submerged bow. The swill in the
battery hold rolls downhill, gathering power and velocity
as it falls, and batters the forward bulkhead of the hold
with terrifying power; he can hear rivets giving way under
the impact. As this happens, most of the battery hold is
exposed to the beam of Bobby Shaftoe's flashlight, all the
way down to the bottom. And that is when he sees the
splintered crates down there-very small crates, such as
might be used to contain very heavy supplies. They have
been busted open. Through the gaps in the wreckage, Shaftoe
can see yellow bricks, once neatly stacked, now scattered.
They look exactly like he would imagine gold bars. The only
thing wrong with that theory is that there are way too many
of them down there for them to be gold bars. It is like when
he turned over rotten logs in Wisconsin and found thousands
of identical insect eggs sown on the dark earth, glowing with
promise.

For a moment, he's tempted. The amount of money down there
is beyond calculation. If he could get his hands on just
one of those bars-

The explosives must have detonated, because Bobby Shaftoe
has just gone deaf. That's his cue to get the f*ck out of
here. He forgets about the gold-morphine's good enough
plunder for one day. He half scrambles and half climbs up
the grid, up the passageway, up the skipper's cabin, smoke
pouring out of its hatch, its bulkheads now weirdly ballooned
by the blast wave.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'