On 2021-12-31 03:37:05 +0000, Titus G said:
> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>> it.
>
> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
> bits with a spoon.

Yep, that's the usual method when eating it 'whole', but if you're
using it for something else (e.g. cake decoration) then you do have to
peel it and slice it for best results.

On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>> it.
>>
>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>> bits with a spoon.
>
> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

On 2021-12-31 02:51:07 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
> In article <sql46t$4kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>
>> Technically "pumpkin pie" isn't even a pie at all. The version you
>> mostly see which has a pastry case filled with organge goo is really a
>> "tart". Similarly with "lemon meriingue pie", "key lime pie", etc. also
>> being tarts
>>
>> A tart is *usually* open-topped, while a real "pie" has a lid,
>> *usually* pastry, on the top (can be with or without the lower case).
>
> Does a lemon or Key Lime confection continue to be a tart when
> it's covered with meringue?

It gets a bit tricky, but they're probably tarts, same as with ones
with pastry lattices on top.

Another less obvious visual difference is the pastry itself - pies tend
to be flaky pastry while tarts are more crumbly pastry.
<https://greatist.com/eat/what-is-the-difference-between-a-pie-and-a-tart#recipes>

There are exceptions, as always. Here in New Zealand you can get a
"Potato Top Pie" which is a pastry case filled with a mince meat mix
and mashed potato covering on top ... no pastry lid.
<https://kiddscakes.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Kidds-Famous-Pies-Potato-Top-Pie.jpg>

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>
>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>
>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>> redefining� American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>
>>>> The use of "jelly"�� to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "��Modern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>
>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>
>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>> with roast lamb.
>>
>> Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>
>> "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>
>> Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>> or pur�ed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>
>> www.finecooking.com
>
>Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
>definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
>with. :-\

The sun set decades ago. Get over it.

Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> writes:
> But New Zealand growers developed a new copyrighted
>strain of the Chinese gooseberry which was technically stolen by Chinese
>growers. ( Good on them. Imagine the stupidity of someone owning the
>copyright for the potato! Another example of Capitalism's desire for
>control rather competition.)

Yeah, imagine that:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050081269A1/en
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-revokes-patent-pepsicos-lays-potatoes-2021-12-03/

* Your Name:

> On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>
>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>
>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>
>>>> The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>
>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>
>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>> with roast lamb.
>>
>> Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>
>> "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>
>> Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>> or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>
>> www.finecooking.com
>
> Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
> with. :-\

And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
because you haven't suggested one.

--
Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
-- George Fox (1660)

In article <j37ct7Fj56cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>> it.
>>>
>>
>>Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>bits with a spoon.
>
>And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <r4zMF6.vx@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <j37ct7Fj56cU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>>bits with a spoon.
>>
>>And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>
>Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.
>

They seem to be less common than the fuzzy ones, but I do see them
at the local "Fresh Market" (which is a little upscale, but not
Whole Foods by any means) from time to time. They are less fuzzy
and have kind of a "beak" on one end. Pretty tasty as well.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
>>>>
>>>> Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>
>>>Greatly depends on what's in the pie.
>>>
>>>For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
>>>the end of a toothpick is far too much.
>>
>>De gustibus non est disputandum.
>>
>>Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
>>to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
>>gooseberries and rhubarb.
>>
>>I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.
>>
>>But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
>>taste a whole lot better to me.
>
>Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
>never encountered gooseberries.

I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
its age, at least until you reach the end.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:20:25 -0500, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Your Name:
>
>> On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>>
>>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>>
>>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
>>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>>
>>>>> The use of "jelly"€? to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>>
>>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>>
>>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>>> with roast lamb.
>>>
>>> Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>>
>>> "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>>
>>> Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>>> or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>>
>>> www.finecooking.com
>>
>> Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
>> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
>> with. :-\
>
>And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
>because you haven't suggested one.

It occurs to me, reviewing the above, that the "English" definitions
are about /how it is used/ while the "American" definitions are about
/how it is made/.

They can both be valid.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <eseusg9v4kbv1bao0vu94g4dgf7uegpm41@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
>>>>>
>>>>> Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
>>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>Greatly depends on what's in the pie.
>>>>
>>>>For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
>>>>the end of a toothpick is far too much.
>>>
>>>De gustibus non est disputandum.
>>>
>>>Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
>>>to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
>>>gooseberries and rhubarb.
>>>
>>>I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.
>>>
>>>But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
>>>taste a whole lot better to me.
>>
>>Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
>>never encountered gooseberries.
>
>I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
>Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
>its age, at least until you reach the end.

The Jasper shorts were "Puppetoons" not cartoons. You couldn't
show them today probably. I like the non-Jasper Puppetoon "Tulips
Shall Grow":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1QUUmShhMM
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <mffusglud2e5gq2bq4nrclfki1v5kkdf7f@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:20:25 -0500, Quinn C
><lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>* Your Name:
>>
>>> On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>>>
>>>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>>>
>>>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
>>>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>>>> redefining� American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The use of "jelly"�? to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "��Modern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>>>> with roast lamb.
>>>>
>>>> Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
>>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>>>
>>>> "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>>>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>>>
>>>> Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>>>> or pur�ed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>>>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>>>
>>>> www.finecooking.com
>>>
>>> Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
>>> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
>>> with. :-\
>>
>>And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
>>because you haven't suggested one.
>
>It occurs to me, reviewing the above, that the "English" definitions
>are about /how it is used/ while the "American" definitions are about
>/how it is made/.
>
>They can both be valid.

And remember the test: It must be jelly because..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:

>On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
>> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>> bits with a spoon.
>>
>> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>
>You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
>the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".

For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
the next spring if not summer.

One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
>> >>
>> >> Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
>> >> https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29
>> >>
>> >> No.
>> >>
>> >> Lynn
>> >
>> >Greatly depends on what's in the pie.
>> >
>> >For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
>> >the end of a toothpick is far too much.
>>
>> De gustibus non est disputandum.
>>
>> Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
>> to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
>> gooseberries and rhubarb.
>>
>
>Rhubarb is not a fruit.

I wondered about that while I was eating it.

It had a taste reminiscent of okra, definitely a vegetable, which I
bought once by mistake (I was one-box-off from the lima beans).

Both made me gag a bit. But, again, anyone who grew up eating these
would very likely have a completely different opinon.

>> I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.
>>
>> But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
>> taste a whole lot better to me.
>
>The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land
>attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb
>pies each summer.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 31 Dec 2021 17:31:25 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <eseusg9v4kbv1bao0vu94g4dgf7uegpm41@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
>>>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>>Greatly depends on what's in the pie.
>>>>>
>>>>>For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
>>>>>the end of a toothpick is far too much.
>>>>
>>>>De gustibus non est disputandum.
>>>>
>>>>Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
>>>>to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
>>>>gooseberries and rhubarb.
>>>>
>>>>I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.
>>>>
>>>>But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
>>>>taste a whole lot better to me.
>>>
>>>Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
>>>never encountered gooseberries.
>>
>>I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
>>Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
>>its age, at least until you reach the end.
>
>The Jasper shorts were "Puppetoons" not cartoons. You couldn't
>show them today probably.

I can see why they'd be offensive, but funny nonetheless, although
creatures of their time. I wonder how many kids today would get the
haunted house not being haunted anymore because the haunts had all
been drafted?

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPNbjJFrOx8>

>I like the non-Jasper Puppetoon "Tulips
>Shall Grow":
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1QUUmShhMM

That was a good one. Seems antiwar now instead of anti Nazi. I'll
never hear the word "screwball" without seeing that image. The
goose-stepping goose was a nice touch.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
>>> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>>> bits with a spoon.
>>>
>>> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>>
>>You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
>>the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.
>
>When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".
>
>For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
>to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
>lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
>the next spring if not summer.

It's not like home canning is extinct - I'm currently enjoying
a nice cherry-plum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_cerasifera)
jam on my morning english muffin.

Over a 100 jars of cherry-plum jam and grape jelly, all from the
back yard.

>
>One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
>it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
>small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
>one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

Candied orange peel is delicious.

>
>So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
>sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.

I certainly enjoyed them growing up. Not a common fruit where
I live now.

My grandmother made an excellent rhubarb crumble.

On 2021-12-31 05:54:19 +0000, Titus G said:
> On 31/12/21 4:48 pm, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>> bits with a spoon.
>>
>> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>
> Yes. I have never eaten the Golden variety and seldom have the green. My
> preference is usually for an apple for texture, taste and to keep the
> doctor away.

A 'Chineses gooseberry' (kiwifruit) a day keeps the accupunturist away. ;-)

On 2021-12-31 18:37:32 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>> On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
>>>> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>>>> bits with a spoon.
>>>>
>>>> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>>>
>>> You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
>>> the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.
>>
>> When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".
>>
>> For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
>> to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
>> lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
>> the next spring if not summer.
>
> It's not like home canning is extinct - I'm currently enjoying
> a nice cherry-plum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_cerasifera)
> jam on my morning english muffin.
>
> Over a 100 jars of cherry-plum jam and grape jelly, all from the
> back yard.
>
>> One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
>> it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
>> small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
>> one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.
>
> Candied orange peel is delicious.
>
>> So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
>> sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.
>
> I certainly enjoyed them growing up. Not a common fruit where
> I live now.
>
> My grandmother made an excellent rhubarb crumble.

Especially with custard. :-)

There's a UK kids' animated series called "Roobarb and Custard" ...
another in the massively long line of bad choices that "help" kids
learn to spell, but "Rhubarb and Custard" is probably not
copyrightable. :-\
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071043/>

On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
> * Your Name:
>> On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>>
>>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
>>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>>
>>>>> The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>>
>>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>>
>>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>>> with roast lamb.
>>>
>>> Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>>
>>> "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>>
>>> Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>>> or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>>
>>> www.finecooking.com
>>
>> Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
>> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
>> with. :-\
>
> And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
> because you haven't suggested one.

They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
with and without "bits" in it. :-p

On 2021-12-31 16:50:48 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
> In article <r4zMF6.vx@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> In article <j37ct7Fj56cU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>>> bits with a spoon.
>>>
>>> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>>
>> Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.
>
> They seem to be less common than the fuzzy ones, but I do see them
> at the local "Fresh Market" (which is a little upscale, but not
> Whole Foods by any means) from time to time. They are less fuzzy
> and have kind of a "beak" on one end. Pretty tasty as well.

There are at four main types of Kiwifruit - green, golden, red, and
purple. Within that there are at least 50 sub-varities.

In article <9kfusg1oaiu2qib4fkn4gf3vcm1695sp8d@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
>>> In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
>>>> bits with a spoon.
>>>
>>> And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
>>
>>You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
>>the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.
>
>When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".
>
>For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
>to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
>lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
>the next spring if not summer.
>
>One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
>it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
>small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
>one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

I have a fruitcake recipe (that I haven't made in years) that
contains both candied orange peel and ditto lemon peel. Also
candied red cherries, green cherries, pineapple chunks, a pound
of each. And two pounds of pecans.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>> On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
>>>> In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
>>>> Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
>>>>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greatly depends on what's in the pie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
>>>>>> the end of a toothpick is far too much.
>>>>>
>>>>> De gustibus non est disputandum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
>>>>> to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
>>>>> gooseberries and rhubarb.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.
>>>>>
>>>>> But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.
>>>>
>>>> Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
>>>> never encountered gooseberries.
>>>
>>> Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
>>> mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.
>>>
>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
>>> "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a
>>> word redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>
>> The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.
>
> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>
> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
> with roast lamb.
>
> Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

”You’re just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!”

>>> The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other
>>> countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly
>>> called the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China
>>> later stolen and renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright
>>> purposes ... and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing
>>> their market for the fruit!  :-\
>
>

--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

On 12/30/21 9:25 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>
>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>
>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
>>>>> "ground
>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>
>>>> The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>
>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>
>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>> with roast lamb.
>>
>> Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are put on
>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>
>>   "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>>    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>
>>    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>>    or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>>    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>
>>   www.finecooking.com
>
> Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
> with.   :-\

Eliza Acton wasn’t an American.

--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

On 12/31/21 4:07 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
>> * Your Name:
>>> On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
>>>> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
>>>>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>>>
>>>>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
>>>>>>> "ground
>>>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>>>>> with roast lamb.
>>>>
>>>> Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are
>>>> put on
>>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.
>>>>
>>>> "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
>>>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...
>>>>
>>>> Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
>>>> or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
>>>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."
>>>>
>>>> www.finecooking.com
>>>
>>> Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
>>> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
>>> with.   :-\
>>
>> And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
>> because you haven't suggested one.
>
> They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam with
> and without "bits" in it.  :-p

“It is not, in fact, very different from the conviction she would have
felt at the age of ten that the kind of fish-knives used in her father’s
house were the proper or normal or ‘real’ kind, while those of
neighboring families were ‘not real fish-knives’ at all.”
—Screwtape

--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
> On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
>>> On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>> On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
>>>>> In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
>>>>>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greatly depends on what's in the pie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
>>>>>>> the end of a toothpick is far too much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> De gustibus non est disputandum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
>>>>>> to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
>>>>>> gooseberries and rhubarb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
>>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
>>>>> never encountered gooseberries.
>>>>
>>>> Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
>>>> mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.
>>>>
>>>> The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.
>>>
>>> The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
>>> of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.
>>
>> "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).
>>
>> "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
>> with roast lamb.
>>
>> Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.
>
> "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!"

I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the
Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.