I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was published
two days ago:
https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/

I’ve added the full list below for those who don’t want to click/scroll.

It’s strictly science fiction - so, for example, no Tolkien, or Stoker.

To me, it’s a pretty well-considered and thorough list, especially through
the 1970s. There seems to be some recency bias and/or maybe some
nods to emerging/micro-genres.

On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
(surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
Lensman, I think both were highly influential. Moore (with & without
Kuttner) had a wide range of influential stuff too, of course.

I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections & serials,
giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.

Full list below,
Tony
———————————————————————————
Again: https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
The webpage has a 3-4 sentence description of each member of the list,
including why it’s on the list. The items with a range of years are either
collections and/or the original material was originally serialized.

Frankenstein - Mary Shelley (1818)
Blake, or The Huts of America - Martin R. Delany (1859 - 1862)
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea - Jules Verne (1869)
The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Robert Louis Stevenson (1886)
The Time Machine - H.G. Wells (1895)
Of One Blood, or the Hidden Self - Pauline Hopkins (1902-1903)
A Princess of Mars - Edgar Rice Burroughs (1912)
We - Yevgeny Zamyatin (1924)
Metropolis - Thea von Harbou (1925)
Brave New World - Aldous Huxley (1932)
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke (1937-1999)
The Complete Robot - Isaac Asimov (1939-1977)
Shadow Over Mars (aka Nemesis from Terra) - Leigh Brackett (1944)
1984 - George Orwell (1949)
Astro Boy - Osamu Tezuka (1952-1968)
Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury (1953)
Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (1959)
A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter M. Miller (1959)
A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L’Engle (1962)
Dune - Frank Herbert (1965)
Babel-17 - Samuel R. Delany (1966)
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick (1968)
The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. Le Guin (1969)
Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang - Kate Wilhelm (1976)
The Ultimate Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (1979-1992)
Daughters of a Coral Dawn - Katherine V. Forrest (1984)
Psion - Joan D. Vinge (1982)
Vampire Hunter D - Hideyuki Kikuchi (1983 - present)
Akira - Katsuhiro Otomo (1982-1990)
Neuromancer - William Gibson (1984)
The Handmaid’s Tale - Margaret Atwood (1985)
Watchmen - Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons (1986-1987)
Lilith’s Brood - Octavia E. Butler (1987-1989)
Ghost in the Shell: Deluxe Complete Box Set - Masamune Shriow (1989-1997)
Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton (1990)
Ring - Koji Suzuki (1991)
Pretty Guardian Sailor moon - Naoko Takeuchi (1991-1997)
The Thrawn Trilogy - Timothy Zahn (1991-1993)
Ammonite - Nicola Griffith (1992)
The Children of Men - PD James (1992)
Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson (1992)
Doomsday Book - Connie Willis (1992)
Uzumaki - Junji Ito (1998-1999)
A Civil Campaign - Lois McMaster Bujold (1999)
Battle Royale - Koushun Takami (1999)
Midnight Robber - Nalo Hopkinson (2000)
Dark Matter: A Centruy of Speculative Fiction from the African Diaspora - ed. by Sheree Renee Thomas (2000)
The Three-Body Problem - Cixin Liu (2008)
Leviathan Wakes - James S.A. Corey (2011)
Cinder - Marissa Meyer (2012)
The Imperial Radch Trilogy - Ann Leckie (2013-2016)
Station Eleven - Emily St. John Mandel (2014)
Area X: The Southern Reach Trilogy - Jeff Vandermeer (2014)

From here, the article’s author predicts some works from 2015 & later
that may well become influential. I didn’t add those works here.

Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e3068112-9ec1-4908-b7db-0072c8bbbaebn@googlegroups.com:

> I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
> published two days ago:
> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
> e/

Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.

> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
> Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).

Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
some that did make the list.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

In article <XnsADC35E8D79EC3taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908-b7db-0072c8bbbaebn@googlegroups.com:
>
> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
> > published two days ago:
> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
> > e/
>
> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
>
> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
> > Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
>
> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
> some that did make the list.

Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to fame is for
various short stories. However, my research has uncovered a collection
_Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that not only includes the novella
"Sidewise in Time" but also the short story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4
other titles that appear in more recent collections and anthologies),
see (<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:17:43 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
> > published two days ago:
> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
> > e/
> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
> > Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
>
> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
> some that did make the list.
>

Oh - great point. I somehow forgot about Leinster. I have 1978's
The Best of Murray Leinster (from the Del Rey/Ballantine series)
that I should re-read some time - some good stuff there.
I think someone (NESFA?) came out with a more extensive
collection around the turn of the century.

Tony

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote in
news:robertaw-A9C6B8.10102914102021@news.individual.net:

> In article <XnsADC35E8D79EC3taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908-b7db-0072c8bbbaebn@googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
>> > published two days ago:
>> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-
>> > tim e/
>>
>> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
>>
>> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are
>> > Doc Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
>>
>> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure
>> than some that did make the list.
>
> Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to fame
> is for various short stories.

Given the number of series, and the "Collected works of Arthur
Clarke" that did make the list, it's really as much as list of
influential authoris as influential books.

And "influential books" is not the same as "influential novels."
Leinster's shorts were, in fact, collected in books. Just to be
pedantic.

> However, my research has uncovered
> a collection _Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that not only
> includes the novella "Sidewise in Time" but also the short
> story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4 other titles that appear in
> more recent collections and anthologies), see
> (<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).
>
I suspect there's a certain amount of "books the author has
actually real" influence there, and whoever wrote the list just
hasn't read any Leinster.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

In article <robertaw-A9C6B8.10102914102021@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <XnsADC35E8D79EC3taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908-b7db-0072c8bbbaebn@googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
>> > published two days ago:
>> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
>> > e/
>>
>> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
>>
>> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
>> > Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
>>
>> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
>> some that did make the list.
>
>Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to fame is for
>various short stories. However, my research has uncovered a collection
>_Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that not only includes the novella
>"Sidewise in Time" but also the short story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4
>other titles that appear in more recent collections and anthologies),
>see (<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).
>

I would say "Watchmen" is dubious on a list of "books".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <robertaw-A9C6B8...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >In article <XnsADC35E8D79E...@85.12.62.245>,
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
> >> > published two days ago:
> >> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
> >> > e/
> >>
> >> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
> >>
> >> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
> >> > Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
> >>
> >> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
> >> some that did make the list.
> >
> >Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to fame is for
> >various short stories. However, my research has uncovered a collection
> >_Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that not only includes the novella
> >"Sidewise in Time" but also the short story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4
> >other titles that appear in more recent collections and anthologies),
> >see (<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).
> >
>
> I would say "Watchmen" is dubious on a list of "books".
>

Because it's a graphic novel, or for another reason?
- Tony

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was published
> two days ago:
> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>
> I’ve added the full list below for those who don’t want to click/scroll.
>
> It’s strictly science fiction - so, for example, no Tolkien, or Stoker.
>
> To me, it’s a pretty well-considered and thorough list, especially through
> the 1970s. There seems to be some recency bias and/or maybe some
> nods to emerging/micro-genres.
>
> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
> (surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
> Lensman, I think both were highly influential. Moore (with & without
> Kuttner) had a wide range of influential stuff too, of course.
>
> I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections & serials,
> giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
> how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.
>
I would say that the late 1930s and 1940s (I.E. the entire golden age of science fiction)
is severely under-represented.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On 2021-10-14 9:48 a.m., Tony Nance wrote:
> I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was published
> two days ago:
> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>
> I’ve added the full list below for those who don’t want to click/scroll.
>
> It’s strictly science fiction - so, for example, no Tolkien, or Stoker.
>
> To me, it’s a pretty well-considered and thorough list, especially through
> the 1970s. There seems to be some recency bias and/or maybe some
> nods to emerging/micro-genres.
>
> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
> (surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
> Lensman, I think both were highly influential. Moore (with & without
> Kuttner) had a wide range of influential stuff too, of course.
>
> I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections & serials,
> giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
> how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.
>
> Full list below,
> Tony
> ———————————————————————————
> Again: https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
> The webpage has a 3-4 sentence description of each member of the list,
> including why it’s on the list. The items with a range of years are either
> collections and/or the original material was originally serialized.
>
> Frankenstein - Mary Shelley (1818)
> Blake, or The Huts of America - Martin R. Delany (1859 - 1862)

It's interesting but in no wise influential.

> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea - Jules Verne (1869)
> The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Robert Louis Stevenson (1886)
> The Time Machine - H.G. Wells (1895)
> Of One Blood, or the Hidden Self - Pauline Hopkins (1902-1903)
> A Princess of Mars - Edgar Rice Burroughs (1912)
> We - Yevgeny Zamyatin (1924)
> Metropolis - Thea von Harbou (1925)
> Brave New World - Aldous Huxley (1932)
> The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke (1937-1999)
> The Complete Robot - Isaac Asimov (1939-1977)
> Shadow Over Mars (aka Nemesis from Terra) - Leigh Brackett (1944)
> 1984 - George Orwell (1949)
> Astro Boy - Osamu Tezuka (1952-1968)

I don't know why Astro Boy and not Superman. Superman created a genre.
In fact he created Astro Boy's genre.

> Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury (1953)
> Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (1959)
> A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter M. Miller (1959)
> A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L’Engle (1962)
> Dune - Frank Herbert (1965)
> Babel-17 - Samuel R. Delany (1966)
> Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick (1968)
> The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. Le Guin (1969)
> Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
> Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang - Kate Wilhelm (1976)
> The Ultimate Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (1979-1992)
> Daughters of a Coral Dawn - Katherine V. Forrest (1984)
> Psion - Joan D. Vinge (1982)
> Vampire Hunter D - Hideyuki Kikuchi (1983 - present)
> Akira - Katsuhiro Otomo (1982-1990)
> Neuromancer - William Gibson (1984)
> The Handmaid’s Tale - Margaret Atwood (1985)
> Watchmen - Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons (1986-1987)
> Lilith’s Brood - Octavia E. Butler (1987-1989)
> Ghost in the Shell: Deluxe Complete Box Set - Masamune Shriow (1989-1997)
> Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton (1990)
> Ring - Koji Suzuki (1991)
> Pretty Guardian Sailor moon - Naoko Takeuchi (1991-1997)
> The Thrawn Trilogy - Timothy Zahn (1991-1993)

Seriously? What did Thrawn influence?

> Ammonite - Nicola Griffith (1992)
> The Children of Men - PD James (1992)
> Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson (1992)
> Doomsday Book - Connie Willis (1992)
> Uzumaki - Junji Ito (1998-1999)
> A Civil Campaign - Lois McMaster Bujold (1999)
> Battle Royale - Koushun Takami (1999)
> Midnight Robber - Nalo Hopkinson (2000)
> Dark Matter: A Centruy of Speculative Fiction from the African Diaspora - ed. by Sheree Renee Thomas (2000)
> The Three-Body Problem - Cixin Liu (2008)

Ugh. I just can't live with those orbital mechanics.

> Leviathan Wakes - James S.A. Corey (2011)
> Cinder - Marissa Meyer (2012)
> The Imperial Radch Trilogy - Ann Leckie (2013-2016)
> Station Eleven - Emily St. John Mandel (2014)
> Area X: The Southern Reach Trilogy - Jeff Vandermeer (2014)
>
> From here, the article’s author predicts some works from 2015 & later
> that may well become influential. I didn’t add those works here.
>
>

An... interesting list.

It contains a lot of the well-known works that
everyone would admit were influential, like
1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, We,
Metropolis, The Time Machine, Frankenstein,
and so on.

It also contains some lost and obscure works
that one might _wish_ were more influential
than they actually were: I was pleased to have
learned about Blake, or the Huts of America and
Of One Blood, or The Hidden Self from this
list.

Then the list also has a bunch of other stuff on
it, about some of which I would have questions.
As it seems the site the list is on has selling books
as its purpose, though, I don't feel it necessary to
look too hard for answers.

John Savard

In article <48c754d4-2352-4e4d-85ad-67c039f23b2an@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <robertaw-A9C6B8...@news.individual.net>,
>> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> >In article <XnsADC35E8D79E...@85.12.62.245>,
>> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
>> >>
>> >> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
>> >> > published two days ago:
>> >> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
>> >> > e/
>> >>
>> >> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
>> >>
>> >> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
>> >> > Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
>> >>
>> >> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
>> >> some that did make the list.
>> >
>> >Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to fame is for
>> >various short stories. However, my research has uncovered a collection
>> >_Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that not only includes the novella
>> >"Sidewise in Time" but also the short story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4
>> >other titles that appear in more recent collections and anthologies),
>> >see (<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).
>> >
>>
>> I would say "Watchmen" is dubious on a list of "books".
>>
>
>Because it's a graphic novel, or for another reason?
>- Tony

Yes, because of that. I'm not knocking the quality, and I love comics,
but that's not where my mind goes when I hear "books".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 8:33:04 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <48c754d4-2352-4e4d...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <robertaw-A9C6B8...@news.individual.net>,
> >> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >> >In article <XnsADC35E8D79E...@85.12.62.245>,
> >> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
> >> >> > published two days ago:
> >> >> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-tim
> >> >> > e/
> >> >>
> >> >> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
> >> >>
> >> >> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc
> >> >> > Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
> >> >>
> >> >> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less obscure than
> >> >> some that did make the list.
> >> >
> >> >Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to fame is for
> >> >various short stories. However, my research has uncovered a collection
> >> >_Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that not only includes the novella
> >> >"Sidewise in Time" but also the short story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4
> >> >other titles that appear in more recent collections and anthologies),
> >> >see (<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).
> >> >
> >>
> >> I would say "Watchmen" is dubious on a list of "books".
> >>
> >
> >Because it's a graphic novel, or for another reason?
> >- Tony
>
> Yes, because of that. I'm not knocking the quality, and I love comics,
> but that's not where my mind goes when I hear "books".
>

Understood! Thanks for the extra info.
- Tony

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in news:813683df-47aa-4889-8d01-
ca87f45a788an@googlegroups.com:

> An... interesting list.
>
> It contains a lot of the well-known works that
> everyone would admit were influential, like
> 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, We,
> Metropolis, The Time Machine, Frankenstein,
> and so on.
>
> It also contains some lost and obscure works
> that one might _wish_ were more influential
> than they actually were: I was pleased to have
> learned about Blake, or the Huts of America and
> Of One Blood, or The Hidden Self from this
> list.
>
> Then the list also has a bunch of other stuff on
> it, about some of which I would have questions.
> As it seems the site the list is on has selling books
> as its purpose, though, I don't feel it necessary to
> look too hard for answers.
>
I suspect it's really a list of books "influential to the author of
this list."

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:iss0hrFivnkU1@mid.individual.net:

> In article
> <48c754d4-2352-4e4d-85ad-67c039f23b2an@googlegroups.com>, Tony
> Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan
>><tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <robertaw-A9C6B8...@news.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>> >In article <XnsADC35E8D79E...@85.12.62.245>,
>>> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> >> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
>>> >>
>>> >> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
>>> >> > published two days ago:
>>> >> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-
>>> >> > all-tim e/
>>> >>
>>> >> Surprisingly, I've at least heard of most of them.
>>> >>
>>> >> > On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions
>>> >> > are Doc Smith (surely) and CL Moore (probably).
>>> >>
>>> >> Nothing by Murray Leinster, either, who is surely less
>>> >> obscure than some that did make the list.
>>> >
>>> >Well, it is a list of books and Leinster's chief claim to
>>> >fame is for various short stories. However, my research has
>>> >uncovered a collection _Sidewise in Time_ (Shasta, 1950) that
>>> >not only includes the novella "Sidewise in Time" but also the
>>> >short story, "A Logic Named Joe" (plus 4 other titles that
>>> >appear in more recent collections and anthologies), see
>>> >(<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30401>).
>>> >
>>>
>>> I would say "Watchmen" is dubious on a list of "books".
>>>
>>
>>Because it's a graphic novel, or for another reason?
>>- Tony
>
> Yes, because of that. I'm not knocking the quality, and I love
> comics, but that's not where my mind goes when I hear "books".

Me either, but there are a lot of people who disagree.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

begin fnord
David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> writes:

>> The Three-Body Problem - Cixin Liu (2008)
>
> Ugh. I just can't live with those orbital mechanics.

I can't live with those characters, or that world view.

I do have to thank the author for teaching me that just because I'm
voting in a category does not mean I am obligated to read every nominee.

--
Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

> >> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
> >> > published two days ago:
> >> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-
> >> > tim e/
> >>
> Given the number of series, and the "Collected works of Arthur
> Clarke" that did make the list, it's really as much as list of
> influential authoris as influential books.

As does only listing one work by the author. As if _War of the Worlds_ and _The Invisible Man_ being less influential than _The Time Machine_ -a fair call- automatically puts them below _A Canticle for Leibowitz_.
(List of great scientific discoveries:
1 Galileo: mountains on the surface of the Moon
2 Curie: refining of radium)
3 Einstein: explanation of Brownian motion

> And "influential books" is not the same as "influential novels."
> Leinster's shorts were, in fact, collected in books. Just to be
> pedantic.

"Influential book" as a book... shouldn't there be a place for _Dangerous Visions_ there?
That gets us on the track of sf not being the story of the influential books, or the influential authors, but the influential editors -in the late 1930s and the 1940s the influential EDITOR. (There's the "auteur theory" in film, that the main creator of a movie -the one responsible for its quality and philosophy- is the director. There's a similar theory that the "author" of recorded music is the producer. Do I want to say that the author of an sf story is its editor? Sure, why not.)

> I suspect there's a certain amount of "books the author has
> actually real" influence there, and whoever wrote the list just
> hasn't read any Leinster.

I suspect scales tipping for a well-known movie or TV adaptation, hence Heinlein's last juvenile rather than the first. (I would have gone with the book _The Past Through Tomorrow_ for Future History.) I was about to dismiss Dick's _Do Androids..._ for that, I mean, did he say anything there he didn't say in "The Father-Thing"?, but I began to wonder if I could dismiss a book's influence through its adaptation. Specifically, Gibson said when he watched "Blade Runner" he saw all the things he was trying to express in his cyberpunk.

--
-Jack

Quadibloc wrote:
> An... interesting list.
>
> It also contains some lost and obscure works
> that one might _wish_ were more influential
> than they actually were: I was pleased to have
> learned about Blake, or the Huts of America and
> Of One Blood, or The Hidden Self from this
> list.

There seems to be a little bit of a fault I'd seen attributed to Sam Moskowitz's sf histories: finding the earliest occurrence of something and treating every following use as if it could not have been independently invented.

The obscure work I wish were more influential is the first story where to travelers crash on a planet with no hope of escape and introduce themselves as Adam and Eve.

--
-Jack

Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote in
news:334c327f-c5c1-4c46-80ce-2922fcfa15e8n@googlegroups.com:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>
>> >> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:e3068112-9ec1-4908...@googlegroups.com:
>> >>
>> >> > I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was
>> >> > published two days ago:
>> >> > https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-a
>> >> > ll- tim e/
>> >>
>> Given the number of series, and the "Collected works of Arthur
>> Clarke" that did make the list, it's really as much as list of
>> influential authoris as influential books.
>
> As does only listing one work by the author. As if _War of the
> Worlds_ and _The Invisible Man_ being less influential than _The
> Time Machine_ -a fair call- automatically puts them below _A
> Canticle for Leibowitz_. (List of great scientific discoveries:
> 1 Galileo: mountains on the surface of the Moon
> 2 Curie: refining of radium)
> 3 Einstein: explanation of Brownian motion

And while Leinster may be best known for short stories *now*, he
did write quite a few novels, as a quick search on Amazon shows.
>
>
>
>> And "influential books" is not the same as "influential
>> novels." Leinster's shorts were, in fact, collected in books.
>> Just to be pedantic.
>
> "Influential book" as a book... shouldn't there be a place for
> _Dangerous Visions_ there? That gets us on the track of sf not
> being the story of the influential books, or the influential
> authors, but the influential editors -in the late 1930s and the
> 1940s the influential EDITOR. (There's the "auteur theory" in
> film, that the main creator of a movie -the one responsible for
> its quality and philosophy- is the director. There's a similar
> theory that the "author" of recorded music is the producer. Do
> I want to say that the author of an sf story is its editor?
> Sure, why not.)
>
>
>> I suspect there's a certain amount of "books the author has
>> actually real" influence there, and whoever wrote the list just
>> hasn't read any Leinster.
>
> I suspect scales tipping for a well-known movie or TV
> adaptation, hence Heinlein's last juvenile rather than the
> first. (I would have gone with the book _The Past Through
> Tomorrow_ for Future History.) I was about to dismiss Dick's
> _Do Androids..._ for that, I mean, did he say anything there he
> didn't say in "The Father-Thing"?, but I began to wonder if I
> could dismiss a book's influence through its adaptation.
> Specifically, Gibson said when he watched "Blade Runner" he saw
> all the things he was trying to express in his cyberpunk.
>
Well, novels that get turned into movies certainly influenced the
people who made and watched the movie.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

In article <2b1fdd41-cbb3-407a-8512-b422cfd814f2n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Quadibloc wrote:
>> An... interesting list.
>>
>> It also contains some lost and obscure works
>> that one might _wish_ were more influential
>> than they actually were: I was pleased to have
>> learned about Blake, or the Huts of America and
>> Of One Blood, or The Hidden Self from this
>> list.
>
>There seems to be a little bit of a fault I'd seen attributed to Sam
>Moskowitz's sf histories: finding the earliest occurrence of something
>and treating every following use as if it could not have been
>independently invented.
>
>The obscure work I wish were more influential is the first story where
>to travelers crash on a planet with no hope of escape and introduce
>themselves as Adam and Eve.
>

Jack looked around. The room was divided into two parts by
a center aisle. Across the aisle to the left, poorly lighted
shelves stretched on almost as far as he could see, while
to the right a compact group of well-lighted, dust-free
shelves beckoned invitingly.

"What's the difference?" Rhea asked, pointing to the left.

Lucien took off his glasses and wiped them meditatively.
He pointed into the dimness. "Those books are lost because
they were unpublishable, unsubmitted or didn't find the
right editor."

"My God," Jack said, "it's the grand, cumulative slush pile of SF!"

Rhea grabbed his arm. "Be afraid," she said. "Be very afraid."

"Indeed," Lucien agreed. "It's the largest such for any of
our genres. Seemingly, of every two people who read science
fiction, one of them has a book he hopes to contribute to
the field."

Fascinated, Jack walked to the first shelf and picked up a
dusty folder. Inside, the cover page was dated May 7, 1843,
in precise early Victorian handwriting. He turned to the
last page and read:

"Whereat the man said, 'Good lady, I call myself Adam. And
how might I politely address myself to you?' Upon which
words the woman responded, 'Good sir, I have no other name
than Eve.'"

Jack shuddered and put the manuscript down. "Not a book
that should be put aside lightly," he quoted, "but rather
one which should be hurled with great force."

"And on the other side?" Rhea asked.

"Books by known authors," Lucien said, "or good ones. Lost
due to fire, war, the post or what have you. Not nearly as
big a set." He put his glasses back on and settled them
firmly on his nose. The lenses magnified his distinctly
demonic square pupils. "Now then," he said, "there is a
bellpull in the wall by the door. Do pull it when you are
done here, and I shall escort you out, but for now I must
attend to other business."
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 2021-10-14, Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
> (surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
> Lensman, I think both were highly influential.

You have to go with _Skylark_ here; John W. Campbell was already
writing Smith knock-off space opera before _Galactic Patrol_ was
published.

> I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections & serials,
> giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
> how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.

Some entries in the list are weird because the books themselves
were rather forgettable, it was their adaptation in other media
that proved wildly influential:

> Metropolis - Thea von Harbou (1925)

The _Metropolis_ novel is totally obscure. According to German
Wikipedia, the novel and the screenplay were written in parallel,
similar to _2001_, I guess.

> Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick (1968)

_Androids_ would be more or less forgotten without _Blade Runner_.

> Ghost in the Shell: Deluxe Complete Box Set - Masamune Shriow (1989-1997)

This is one where I'm actually not sure which part of the multimedia
franchise deserves the most credit. The 1995 animated movie was a
staggering achievement, the sequel to _Blade Runner_ as far as
influence goes.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On 10/14/2021 10:48 AM, Tony Nance wrote:
> I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was published
> two days ago:
> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>
> I’ve added the full list below for those who don’t want to click/scroll.
>
> It’s strictly science fiction - so, for example, no Tolkien, or Stoker.
>
> To me, it’s a pretty well-considered and thorough list, especially through
> the 1970s. There seems to be some recency bias and/or maybe some
> nods to emerging/micro-genres.
>
> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
> (surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
> Lensman, I think both were highly influential. Moore (with & without
> Kuttner) had a wide range of influential stuff too, of course.
>
> I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections & serials,
> giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
> how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.
>
> Full list below,
> Tony
> ———————————————————————————
> Again: https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
> The webpage has a 3-4 sentence description of each member of the list,
> including why it’s on the list. The items with a range of years are either
> collections and/or the original material was originally serialized.
>
> Frankenstein - Mary Shelley (1818)
> Blake, or The Huts of America - Martin R. Delany (1859 - 1862)
> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea - Jules Verne (1869)
> The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Robert Louis Stevenson (1886)
> The Time Machine - H.G. Wells (1895)
> Of One Blood, or the Hidden Self - Pauline Hopkins (1902-1903)
> A Princess of Mars - Edgar Rice Burroughs (1912)
> We - Yevgeny Zamyatin (1924)
> Metropolis - Thea von Harbou (1925)
> Brave New World - Aldous Huxley (1932)
> The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke (1937-1999)
> The Complete Robot - Isaac Asimov (1939-1977)
> Shadow Over Mars (aka Nemesis from Terra) - Leigh Brackett (1944)
> 1984 - George Orwell (1949)
> Astro Boy - Osamu Tezuka (1952-1968)
> Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury (1953)
> Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (1959)
> A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter M. Miller (1959)
> A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L’Engle (1962)
> Dune - Frank Herbert (1965)
> Babel-17 - Samuel R. Delany (1966)
> Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick (1968)
> The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. Le Guin (1969)
> Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
> Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang - Kate Wilhelm (1976)
> The Ultimate Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (1979-1992)
> Daughters of a Coral Dawn - Katherine V. Forrest (1984)
> Psion - Joan D. Vinge (1982)
> Vampire Hunter D - Hideyuki Kikuchi (1983 - present)
> Akira - Katsuhiro Otomo (1982-1990)
> Neuromancer - William Gibson (1984)
> The Handmaid’s Tale - Margaret Atwood (1985)
> Watchmen - Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons (1986-1987)
> Lilith’s Brood - Octavia E. Butler (1987-1989)
> Ghost in the Shell: Deluxe Complete Box Set - Masamune Shriow (1989-1997)
> Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton (1990)
> Ring - Koji Suzuki (1991)
> Pretty Guardian Sailor moon - Naoko Takeuchi (1991-1997)
> The Thrawn Trilogy - Timothy Zahn (1991-1993)
> Ammonite - Nicola Griffith (1992)
> The Children of Men - PD James (1992)
> Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson (1992)
> Doomsday Book - Connie Willis (1992)
> Uzumaki - Junji Ito (1998-1999)
> A Civil Campaign - Lois McMaster Bujold (1999)
> Battle Royale - Koushun Takami (1999)
> Midnight Robber - Nalo Hopkinson (2000)
> Dark Matter: A Centruy of Speculative Fiction from the African Diaspora - ed. by Sheree Renee Thomas (2000)
> The Three-Body Problem - Cixin Liu (2008)
> Leviathan Wakes - James S.A. Corey (2011)
> Cinder - Marissa Meyer (2012)
> The Imperial Radch Trilogy - Ann Leckie (2013-2016)
> Station Eleven - Emily St. John Mandel (2014)
> Area X: The Southern Reach Trilogy - Jeff Vandermeer (2014)
>
> From here, the article’s author predicts some works from 2015 & later
> that may well become influential. I didn’t add those works here.

The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.

Lynn

On Friday, 15 October 2021 at 17:43:43 UTC+1, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Quadibloc wrote:
> > An... interesting list.
> >
> > It also contains some lost and obscure works
> > that one might _wish_ were more influential
> > than they actually were: I was pleased to have
> > learned about Blake, or the Huts of America and
> > Of One Blood, or The Hidden Self from this
> > list.
> There seems to be a little bit of a fault I'd seen attributed to Sam Moskowitz's sf histories: finding the earliest occurrence of something and treating every following use as if it could not have been independently invented.
>
> The obscure work I wish were more influential is the first story where to travelers crash on a planet with no hope of escape and introduce themselves as Adam and Eve.

That's the actual Old Testament, I'd suppose.

In article <skcnib$6ir$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
>John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.

As several posters have already pointed out, the list contains
those works that the lister found influential to him.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On 10/15/2021 6:38 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <skcnib$6ir$1@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>>
>> The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
>> John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.
>
> As several posters have already pointed out, the list contains
> those works that the lister found influential to him.

Then they should have put "to me" at the end of "The Most Influential
Sci-Fi Books Of All Time".

Lynn

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 8:32:53 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/15/2021 6:38 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <skcnib$6ir$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
> >>
> >> The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
> >> John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.
> >
> > As several posters have already pointed out, the list contains
> > those works that the lister found influential to him.
>
> Then they should have put "to me" at the end of "The Most Influential
> Sci-Fi Books Of All Time".
>

Not sure where this perspective is coming from. From the article
"...
The most influential sci-fi books of all time have shaped not just
science fiction and its myriad sub-genres, but horror, fantasy, and
manga, as well. Filmmakers have drawn inspiration for the stories
between their covers, and real-world STEM developments have been
made in their names. Without these books, for better or worse, our
world would not be what it is today.
...."

Doesn't seem like the author's intention is a "to me" thing.
- Tony