In article <slrnsmm63l.10nr.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

> On 2021-10-16, Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
> > Popularity's probably positively correlated to influence. And
> > _Perry Rhodan_ is the most popular science fiction ever, with over two
> > billion novellas sold. Bubonicon's a takeoff on a PR character named
> > Gucky/Pucky. PR's matter transmitter's appeared years before Star Trek's
> > transporters. PR's spherical space ships debuted decades before Star
> > Wars' Death Star.
>
> I think PR's influence on Anglo-American SF is approximately zero.
> And a good rule of thumb is that _nothing_ in PR is original. It's
> all been seen before. (Which does not preclude independent
> reinvention.)
>
> _The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_ traces matter transmission
> to the 19th century.
>
> I vaguely remember von Däniken explaining that a sphere is the
> logical shape for a space-ship. That idea must have been around
> for a long time. (And is completely irrelevant at the level of
> magic technology in PR.)

The warships in various H. Beam Piper's stories (_Space Viking_ as well
as stories set in the Federation era and in the Empire Era) were
spherical. For that matter, IIRC, the title spaceship in _Skylark of
Valeron_ was also spherical.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On 10/16/2021 10:00 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <slrnsmm63l.10nr.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
> Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-10-16, Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Popularity's probably positively correlated to influence. And
>>> _Perry Rhodan_ is the most popular science fiction ever, with over two
>>> billion novellas sold. Bubonicon's a takeoff on a PR character named
>>> Gucky/Pucky. PR's matter transmitter's appeared years before Star Trek's
>>> transporters. PR's spherical space ships debuted decades before Star
>>> Wars' Death Star.
>>
>> I think PR's influence on Anglo-American SF is approximately zero.
>> And a good rule of thumb is that _nothing_ in PR is original. It's
>> all been seen before. (Which does not preclude independent
>> reinvention.)
>>
>> _The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_ traces matter transmission
>> to the 19th century.
>>
>> I vaguely remember von Däniken explaining that a sphere is the
>> logical shape for a space-ship. That idea must have been around
>> for a long time. (And is completely irrelevant at the level of
>> magic technology in PR.)
>
> The warships in various H. Beam Piper's stories (_Space Viking_ as well
> as stories set in the Federation era and in the Empire Era) were
> spherical. For that matter, IIRC, the title spaceship in _Skylark of
> Valeron_ was also spherical.
>
IIRC spheres give the most volume with the least surface area.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 22:14:28 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 10/16/2021 10:00 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> In article <slrnsmm63l.10nr.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
>> Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-10-16, Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Popularity's probably positively correlated to influence. And
>>>> _Perry Rhodan_ is the most popular science fiction ever, with over two
>>>> billion novellas sold. Bubonicon's a takeoff on a PR character named
>>>> Gucky/Pucky. PR's matter transmitter's appeared years before Star Trek's
>>>> transporters. PR's spherical space ships debuted decades before Star
>>>> Wars' Death Star.
>>>
>>> I think PR's influence on Anglo-American SF is approximately zero.
>>> And a good rule of thumb is that _nothing_ in PR is original. It's
>>> all been seen before. (Which does not preclude independent
>>> reinvention.)
>>>
>>> _The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_ traces matter transmission
>>> to the 19th century.
>>>
>>> I vaguely remember von Däniken explaining that a sphere is the
>>> logical shape for a space-ship. That idea must have been around
>>> for a long time. (And is completely irrelevant at the level of
>>> magic technology in PR.)
>>
>> The warships in various H. Beam Piper's stories (_Space Viking_ as well
>> as stories set in the Federation era and in the Empire Era) were
>> spherical. For that matter, IIRC, the title spaceship in _Skylark of
>> Valeron_ was also spherical.
>>
>IIRC spheres give the most volume with the least surface area.

Cavor's space ship in Wells' 1901 "The First Men in the Moon" is
spherical. The Chapter 3 title is "The Building of the Sphere". I'm
fairly sure that some of Doc Smith's space ships were spherical.

With regard to teleportation, google "Kefitzat Haderech", which I
believe predates Christianity. There's also Wagner's Tarnhelm. If
you need something explicitly science-fictional try "The Man Without a
Body" from 1877. Or Clarke's first published story, "Travel by Wire!"
from 1937. Or for something well known that predates Perry Rhodan,
try Heinlein's 1955 "Tunnel in the Sky". It also appeared in several
movies starting in 1939, including the 1953 Merrie Melodies "Duck
Dodgers", and 1958's "The Fly".

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 11:57:13 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

> Jack shuddered and put the manuscript down. "Not a book
> that should be put aside lightly," he quoted, "but rather
> one which should be hurled with great force."

A web search indicates that he was paraphrasing Dorothy Parker.

John Savard

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 2:16:15 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
> John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.

Interesting. If it _had_, it would have made the list suspect to my mind.
Not that it isn't suspect anyways for other reasons - such as categorizing
books as among the "most influential" which in fact languished in total
obscurity prior to the publication of that list, as far as I know.

John Savard

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 7:23:41 PM UTC-6, Ahasuerus wrote:

> Well, some of it can be quantified. For example, Edward Bellamy's
> _Looking Backward: 2000–1887_ spawned a large "Nationalist" movement
> with dozens of affiliated clubs, effectively a political party. It would be hard
> to argue that the book wasn't influential.

Having read his sequel, _Equality_, however, I would be prepared to argue
that it brought no new ideas to the table that weren't found in the _Communist
Manifesto_ by Karl Marx, even if it tried to mold those ideas into a form more
palatable to the American taste.

John Savard

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 12:07:25 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> With regard to teleportation, google "Kefitzat Haderech", which I
> believe predates Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefitzat_Haderech

Oh, my. I had no idea that Kwisatz Haderach was anything more
than a nonsense SF name that Frank Herbert made up. Although
it having an actual Hebrew source doesn't surprise me _too_
much.

John Savard

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 12:30:08 PM UTC-6, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> There was a bit of a kerfuffle a number of years back when somebody
> noticed that the length of the river Rhine as given in encyclopedias,
> text books, etc. was simply wrong, and this was traced back to a
> transposition of two digits (1230 > 1320 km) that steadily spread
> through all those carefully fact-checked reputable sources *cough*.

I looked that up; it turned out that the influential typo was in the 1932
edition of Knaurs Lexikon.

John Savard

On Sunday, 17 October 2021 at 08:13:01 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 2:16:15 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> > The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
> > John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.
> Interesting. If it _had_, it would have made the list suspect to my mind.
> Not that it isn't suspect anyways for other reasons - such as categorizing
> books as among the "most influential" which in fact languished in total
> obscurity prior to the publication of that list, as far as I know.

A text can be influential for a while, and then lapse.
I see that you mentioned "The Communist Manifesto".

Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> <snippo>
> >> I suspect there's a certain amount of "books the author has
> >> actually real" influence there, and whoever wrote the list just
> >> hasn't read any Leinster.
> >
> >I suspect scales tipping for a well-known movie or TV adaptation, hence Heinlein's last juvenile rather than the first. (I would have gone with the book _The Past Through Tomorrow_ for Future History.) I was about to dismiss Dick's _Do Androids..._ for that, I mean, did he say anything there he didn't say in "The Father-Thing"?, but I began to wonder if I could dismiss a book's influence through its adaptation. Specifically, Gibson said when he watched "Blade Runner" he saw all the things he was trying to express in his cyberpunk.
> I've read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" and recently saw the
> "Electric Dreams" version of "The Father Thing", and it's not clear
> how they intersect.
>
> One is set in a post-apocalyptic world where the main attraction to
> moving off-planet to men who qualify is that they can ditch the
> lead-lined underpants. Lots of residual radiation in the environment.
> You do also have the investigation in the film, more or less.
>
> The other is Yet Another Pod People story, told from the viewpoint of
> a small boy who organizes a world-wide resistance (well, he's trying
> to at the end of the episode, anyway).

I wish I could remember which writer said even a short story needed the intersection of at least two ideas so I could give proper credit. (I just know it wasn't van Vogt, who said to introduce a new idea every 9000 words.) During interviews leading up to the movie, Dick emphasized the idea of something that looked like a human, but didn't make human connections. He said it had been on his mind since reading released journals of concentration camp guards, one of whom complained that the crying of the children got too loud when he was trying to sleep.

--
-Jack

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 02:07:18 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 22:14:28 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>On 10/16/2021 10:00 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>> In article <slrnsmm63l.10nr.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
>>> Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-10-16, Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Popularity's probably positively correlated to influence. And
>>>>> _Perry Rhodan_ is the most popular science fiction ever, with over two
>>>>> billion novellas sold. Bubonicon's a takeoff on a PR character named
>>>>> Gucky/Pucky. PR's matter transmitter's appeared years before Star Trek's
>>>>> transporters. PR's spherical space ships debuted decades before Star
>>>>> Wars' Death Star.
>>>>
>>>> I think PR's influence on Anglo-American SF is approximately zero.
>>>> And a good rule of thumb is that _nothing_ in PR is original. It's
>>>> all been seen before. (Which does not preclude independent
>>>> reinvention.)
>>>>
>>>> _The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_ traces matter transmission
>>>> to the 19th century.
>>>>
>>>> I vaguely remember von Däniken explaining that a sphere is the
>>>> logical shape for a space-ship. That idea must have been around
>>>> for a long time. (And is completely irrelevant at the level of
>>>> magic technology in PR.)
>>>
>>> The warships in various H. Beam Piper's stories (_Space Viking_ as well
>>> as stories set in the Federation era and in the Empire Era) were
>>> spherical. For that matter, IIRC, the title spaceship in _Skylark of
>>> Valeron_ was also spherical.
>>>
>>IIRC spheres give the most volume with the least surface area.
>
>Cavor's space ship in Wells' 1901 "The First Men in the Moon" is
>spherical. The Chapter 3 title is "The Building of the Sphere". I'm
>fairly sure that some of Doc Smith's space ships were spherical.
>
>With regard to teleportation, google "Kefitzat Haderech", which I
>believe predates Christianity. There's also Wagner's Tarnhelm. If
>you need something explicitly science-fictional try "The Man Without a
>Body" from 1877. Or Clarke's first published story, "Travel by Wire!"
>from 1937. Or for something well known that predates Perry Rhodan,
>try Heinlein's 1955 "Tunnel in the Sky". It also appeared in several
>movies starting in 1939, including the 1953 Merrie Melodies
>"Duck Dodgers"

which was a direct reference to the telepods in the original "Buck
Rogers": <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD7F0aHCALE&t=12m43s>.

>, and 1958's "The Fly".

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:56:27 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 1:01:57 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <4qpkmglq24hrdpo5i...@4ax.com>,
>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>> >On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:25:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> ><taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> I suspect scales tipping for a well-known movie or TV
>> >>> adaptation, hence Heinlein's last juvenile rather than the
>> >>> first. (I would have gone with the book _The Past Through
>> >>> Tomorrow_ for Future History.) I was about to dismiss Dick's
>> >>> _Do Androids..._ for that, I mean, did he say anything there he
>> >>> didn't say in "The Father-Thing"?, but I began to wonder if I
>> >>> could dismiss a book's influence through its adaptation.
>> >>> Specifically, Gibson said when he watched "Blade Runner" he saw
>> >>> all the things he was trying to express in his cyberpunk.
>> >
>> >To no one's great surprise some directors + screenwriters do a better
>> >job of translating the author's mental images than others - and no
>> >question cyberpunk was a relatively novel sub-genre when Blade Runner
>> >was made.
>> >
>> >>Well, novels that get turned into movies certainly influenced the
>> >>people who made and watched the movie.
>> >
>> >You mean as opposed to movie novelizations (my biggest non-favorite of
>> >those I've read being the novelization of Star Wars) which are mostly
>> >either two dimensional or move into the edges of fanfic when they go
>> >beyond the movie.
>> Peter David had a memorable rant against that perception. It went something
>> like this:
>>
>> Adapt a book into a movie? You can win an Oscar for that.
>> Adapt a movie onto Broadway? You can win a Tony for that.
>> Adapt a movie into a book? You're a hack.
>>
>> Consider Vonda N. McIntyre's _Star Trek 3_ for instance: Mediocre movie,
>> great book.
>
>And note that there are TWO Oscars for screenwriting: best original screenplay and best
>adapted screenplay, so there is an award for adapted screenplay EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
>I suppose the academy could vote "no award" but does that ever happen? An interesting
>historical note: _A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum_ was partly based on
>scenes from actual Roman comedies so for purposes of awards It was classified as
>an adapted work.

There will always be a "best adapted screenplay" if any are nominated
at all. Just as there will always be a "best movie". Whether the
recipient is actually any good is a different matter.

As to _A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum_ : also on
situations, such as "twins stolen in infancy by pirates". And
characters. Hence names like "Pseudolus" and "Miles Gloriosus".

The film /Moliere/ does something similar: it is entirely made up
(being set in a period of Molier's life when nobody knows what was
really going on) and is built from characters and situations in his
plays.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 07:48:51 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
>> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> <snippo>
>> >> I suspect there's a certain amount of "books the author has
>> >> actually real" influence there, and whoever wrote the list just
>> >> hasn't read any Leinster.
>> >
>> >I suspect scales tipping for a well-known movie or TV adaptation, hence Heinlein's last juvenile rather than the first. (I would have gone with the book _The Past Through Tomorrow_ for Future History.) I was about to dismiss Dick's _Do Androids..._ for that, I mean, did he say anything there he didn't say in "The Father-Thing"?, but I began to wonder if I could dismiss a book's influence through its adaptation. Specifically, Gibson said when he watched "Blade Runner" he saw all the things he was trying to express in his cyberpunk.
>> I've read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" and recently saw the
>> "Electric Dreams" version of "The Father Thing", and it's not clear
>> how they intersect.
>>
>> One is set in a post-apocalyptic world where the main attraction to
>> moving off-planet to men who qualify is that they can ditch the
>> lead-lined underpants. Lots of residual radiation in the environment.
>> You do also have the investigation in the film, more or less.
>>
>> The other is Yet Another Pod People story, told from the viewpoint of
>> a small boy who organizes a world-wide resistance (well, he's trying
>> to at the end of the episode, anyway).
>
>I wish I could remember which writer said even a short story needed the intersection of at least two ideas so I could give proper credit. (I just know it wasn't van Vogt, who said to introduce a new idea every 9000 words.) During interviews leading up to the movie, Dick emphasized the idea of something that looked like a human, but didn't make human connections. He said it had been on his mind since reading released journals of concentration camp guards, one of whom complained that the crying of the children got too loud when he was trying to sleep.

Ah. Story-external.

OK, I can see that.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 10/15/2021 10:27 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <8f5fd043-baf7-4930-9bd8-956e80d9d32bn@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 8:32:53 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2021 6:38 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <skcnib$6ir$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
>>>>> John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.
>>>>
>>>> As several posters have already pointed out, the list contains
>>>> those works that the lister found influential to him.
>>>
>>> Then they should have put "to me" at the end of "The Most Influential
>>> Sci-Fi Books Of All Time".
>>>
>>
>> Not sure where this perspective is coming from. From the article
>> "...
>> The most influential sci-fi books of all time have shaped not just
>> science fiction and its myriad sub-genres, but horror, fantasy, and
>> manga, as well. Filmmakers have drawn inspiration for the stories
>> between their covers, and real-world STEM developments have been
>> made in their names. Without these books, for better or worse, our
>> world would not be what it is today.
>> ..."
>>
>> Doesn't seem like the author's intention is a "to me" thing.
>
> But he is stating his opinion.
>

No kidding Captain Obvious

--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

In article <26e01e69-d141-4344-a920-a6105f10bccan@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 11:57:13 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>
>> Jack shuddered and put the manuscript down. "Not a book
>> that should be put aside lightly," he quoted, "but rather
>> one which should be hurled with great force."
>
>A web search indicates that he was paraphrasing Dorothy Parker.
>
>John Savard

That's why it says "he quoted".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

smw <smw@mort.smwonline.ca> wrote in news:skfcqv$ovq$1@dont-email.me:

> In <slrnsmm63l.10nr.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
> Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> writes:
>
>>There was a bit of a kerfuffle a number of years back when somebody
>>noticed that the length of the river Rhine as given in encyclopedias,
>>text books, etc. was simply wrong, and this was traced back to a
>>transposition of two digits (1230 > 1320 km) that steadily spread
>>through all those carefully fact-checked reputable sources *cough*.
>
> This is related to the phenomenon of citogenesis, as explained by xkcd:
>
> https://xkcd.com/978/
>
> xkcd has something relevant to say about almost anything. :-)
>
> - Steven

I enjoyed this comic, and then I jumped to today's (https://xkcd.com/2529/)
and between the two had a nice belly laugh like I haven't had in a while.

Cheers!

Lafe

"peterwezeman@hotmail.com" <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1fa51a8c-1ce4-4a85-9bc5-e8a045574a34n@googlegroups.com:

> And note that there are TWO Oscars for screenwriting: best
> original screenplay and best adapted screenplay, so there is an
> award for adapted screenplay EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

You've just summed up how Marisa Tomei won Best Supporting Actress
for My Cousin Vinnie.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

In article <XnsADC760062CA43taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>"peterwezeman@hotmail.com" <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:1fa51a8c-1ce4-4a85-9bc5-e8a045574a34n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> And note that there are TWO Oscars for screenwriting: best
>> original screenplay and best adapted screenplay, so there is an
>> award for adapted screenplay EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
>
>You've just summed up how Marisa Tomei won Best Supporting Actress
>for My Cousin Vinnie.
>

Huh. I liked her in that myself. Though it would have been nice for
Fred Gwynne to have gotten something for his last role.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 10/18/2021 11:30 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <XnsADC760062CA43taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "peterwezeman@hotmail.com" <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:1fa51a8c-1ce4-4a85-9bc5-e8a045574a34n@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> And note that there are TWO Oscars for screenwriting: best
>>> original screenplay and best adapted screenplay, so there is an
>>> award for adapted screenplay EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
>>
>> You've just summed up how Marisa Tomei won Best Supporting Actress
>> for My Cousin Vinnie.
>>
>
> Huh. I liked her in that myself. Though it would have been nice for
> Fred Gwynne to have gotten something for his last role.

+1

Lynn

ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:it5lokFerg4U1@mid.individual.net:

> In article <XnsADC760062CA43taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>"peterwezeman@hotmail.com" <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>news:1fa51a8c-1ce4-4a85-9bc5-e8a045574a34n@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> And note that there are TWO Oscars for screenwriting: best
>>> original screenplay and best adapted screenplay, so there is
>>> an award for adapted screenplay EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
>>
>>You've just summed up how Marisa Tomei won Best Supporting
>>Actress for My Cousin Vinnie.
>>
>
> Huh. I liked her in that myself.

She was one of the highlights of the movie, but the Oscar was a
collective comment by the Academy on the pitfalls of giving an award
whether there was something extraordinary to recognize or not.

> Though it would have been
> nice for Fred Gwynne to have gotten something for his last role.

No arguments there, though a lifetime achievement award seems more
appropriate. Or a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, which he
apparently does not have.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 16/10/2021 15:21, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/15/2021 10:06 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>> On 16/10/2021 13:03, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2021 8:16 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 4:16:15 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 10/14/2021 10:48 AM, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>>> I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was published
>>>>>> two days ago:
>>>>>> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve added the full list below for those who don’t want to
>>>>>> click/scroll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s strictly science fiction - so, for example, no Tolkien, or
>>>>>> Stoker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, it’s a pretty well-considered and thorough list, especially
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> the 1970s. There seems to be some recency bias and/or maybe some
>>>>>> nods to emerging/micro-genres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
>>>>>> (surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
>>>>>> Lensman, I think both were highly influential. Moore (with & without
>>>>>> Kuttner) had a wide range of influential stuff too, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections &
>>>>>> serials,
>>>>>> giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
>>>>>> how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Full list below,
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>> ———————————————————————————
>>>>>> Again:
>>>>>> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>>>>>> The webpage has a 3-4 sentence description of each member of the
>>>>>> list,
>>>>>> including why it’s on the list. The items with a range of years
>>>>>> are either
>>>>>> collections and/or the original material was originally serialized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frankenstein - Mary Shelley (1818)
>>>>>> Blake, or The Huts of America - Martin R. Delany (1859 - 1862)
>>>>>> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea - Jules Verne (1869)
>>>>>> The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Robert Louis
>>>>>> Stevenson (1886)
>>>>>> The Time Machine - H.G. Wells (1895)
>>>>>> Of One Blood, or the Hidden Self - Pauline Hopkins (1902-1903)
>>>>>> A Princess of Mars - Edgar Rice Burroughs (1912)
>>>>>> We - Yevgeny Zamyatin (1924)
>>>>>> Metropolis - Thea von Harbou (1925)
>>>>>> Brave New World - Aldous Huxley (1932)
>>>>>> The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke (1937-1999)
>>>>>> The Complete Robot - Isaac Asimov (1939-1977)
>>>>>> Shadow Over Mars (aka Nemesis from Terra) - Leigh Brackett (1944)
>>>>>> 1984 - George Orwell (1949)
>>>>>> Astro Boy - Osamu Tezuka (1952-1968)
>>>>>> Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury (1953)
>>>>>> Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (1959)
>>>>>> A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter M. Miller (1959)
>>>>>> A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L’Engle (1962)
>>>>>> Dune - Frank Herbert (1965)
>>>>>> Babel-17 - Samuel R. Delany (1966)
>>>>>> Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick (1968)
>>>>>> The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. Le Guin (1969)
>>>>>> Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
>>>>>> Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang - Kate Wilhelm (1976)
>>>>>> The Ultimate Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (1979-1992)
>>>>>> Daughters of a Coral Dawn - Katherine V. Forrest (1984)
>>>>>> Psion - Joan D. Vinge (1982)
>>>>>> Vampire Hunter D - Hideyuki Kikuchi (1983 - present)
>>>>>> Akira - Katsuhiro Otomo (1982-1990)
>>>>>> Neuromancer - William Gibson (1984)
>>>>>> The Handmaid’s Tale - Margaret Atwood (1985)
>>>>>> Watchmen - Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons (1986-1987)
>>>>>> Lilith’s Brood - Octavia E. Butler (1987-1989)
>>>>>> Ghost in the Shell: Deluxe Complete Box Set - Masamune Shriow
>>>>>> (1989-1997)
>>>>>> Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton (1990)
>>>>>> Ring - Koji Suzuki (1991)
>>>>>> Pretty Guardian Sailor moon - Naoko Takeuchi (1991-1997)
>>>>>> The Thrawn Trilogy - Timothy Zahn (1991-1993)
>>>>>> Ammonite - Nicola Griffith (1992)
>>>>>> The Children of Men - PD James (1992)
>>>>>> Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson (1992)
>>>>>> Doomsday Book - Connie Willis (1992)
>>>>>> Uzumaki - Junji Ito (1998-1999)
>>>>>> A Civil Campaign - Lois McMaster Bujold (1999)
>>>>>> Battle Royale - Koushun Takami (1999)
>>>>>> Midnight Robber - Nalo Hopkinson (2000)
>>>>>> Dark Matter: A Centruy of Speculative Fiction from the African
>>>>>> Diaspora - ed. by Sheree Renee Thomas (2000)
>>>>>> The Three-Body Problem - Cixin Liu (2008)
>>>>>> Leviathan Wakes - James S.A. Corey (2011)
>>>>>> Cinder - Marissa Meyer (2012)
>>>>>> The Imperial Radch Trilogy - Ann Leckie (2013-2016)
>>>>>> Station Eleven - Emily St. John Mandel (2014)
>>>>>> Area X: The Southern Reach Trilogy - Jeff Vandermeer (2014)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From here, the article’s author predicts some works from 2015 &
>>>>>> later
>>>>>> that may well become influential. I didn’t add those works here.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
>>>>> John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perry Rhodan's a good fit, I'd say. Are Weber and Ringo influential?
>>>> Sell well, sure - but influential isn't so clear to me.
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>
>>> We get the term "missile porn" from Weber.  We get ??? from Ringo, I
>>> guess just a lot of freaking books.
>>>
>> Ringo gives us less-than-one-dimensional characters - something I had
>> not previously thought possible.
>>
>>      Cheers,
>>          Gary    B-)
>
> Any book in particular or all 51 of his published books ?
>
The few I've been able to finish are the first of the "March Up You Own
Fundament" series, with Weber (they were given to me), and - if you can
summon sufficient suspension-of-disbelief to get past the initial zombie
thing being allowed to happen - shows just how much the characters
depended on Weber, which is a strange sentence to write in itself!!

I didn't finish the one where they take over the spaceport, it just got
too silly.

I tried the first Posleen, but it hit the wall with the eight deadly
words fairly quickly.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

On 10/18/2021 9:38 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
> On 16/10/2021 15:21, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 10/15/2021 10:06 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>> On 16/10/2021 13:03, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 10/15/2021 8:16 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 4:16:15 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/14/2021 10:48 AM, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>>>> I just ran across this article about an hour ago - it was published
>>>>>>> two days ago:
>>>>>>> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve added the full list below for those who don’t want to
>>>>>>> click/scroll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s strictly science fiction - so, for example, no Tolkien, or
>>>>>>> Stoker.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, it’s a pretty well-considered and thorough list,
>>>>>>> especially through
>>>>>>> the 1970s. There seems to be some recency bias and/or maybe some
>>>>>>> nods to emerging/micro-genres.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On first blush, I’d say the only significant omissions are Doc Smith
>>>>>>> (surely) and CL Moore (probably). Whether you’d cite Skylark or
>>>>>>> Lensman, I think both were highly influential. Moore (with & without
>>>>>>> Kuttner) had a wide range of influential stuff too, of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also appreciated the inclusion of the various collections &
>>>>>>> serials,
>>>>>>> giving a nod both to how influential the authors/works were and to
>>>>>>> how influential short/serialized fiction was and is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Full list below,
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>> ———————————————————————————
>>>>>>> Again:
>>>>>>> https://bookriot.com/the-most-influential-sci-fi-books-of-all-time/
>>>>>>> The webpage has a 3-4 sentence description of each member of the
>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>> including why it’s on the list. The items with a range of years
>>>>>>> are either
>>>>>>> collections and/or the original material was originally serialized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frankenstein - Mary Shelley (1818)
>>>>>>> Blake, or The Huts of America - Martin R. Delany (1859 - 1862)
>>>>>>> Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea - Jules Verne (1869)
>>>>>>> The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Robert Louis
>>>>>>> Stevenson (1886)
>>>>>>> The Time Machine - H.G. Wells (1895)
>>>>>>> Of One Blood, or the Hidden Self - Pauline Hopkins (1902-1903)
>>>>>>> A Princess of Mars - Edgar Rice Burroughs (1912)
>>>>>>> We - Yevgeny Zamyatin (1924)
>>>>>>> Metropolis - Thea von Harbou (1925)
>>>>>>> Brave New World - Aldous Huxley (1932)
>>>>>>> The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke (1937-1999)
>>>>>>> The Complete Robot - Isaac Asimov (1939-1977)
>>>>>>> Shadow Over Mars (aka Nemesis from Terra) - Leigh Brackett (1944)
>>>>>>> 1984 - George Orwell (1949)
>>>>>>> Astro Boy - Osamu Tezuka (1952-1968)
>>>>>>> Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury (1953)
>>>>>>> Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (1959)
>>>>>>> A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter M. Miller (1959)
>>>>>>> A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L’Engle (1962)
>>>>>>> Dune - Frank Herbert (1965)
>>>>>>> Babel-17 - Samuel R. Delany (1966)
>>>>>>> Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick (1968)
>>>>>>> The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. Le Guin (1969)
>>>>>>> Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
>>>>>>> Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang - Kate Wilhelm (1976)
>>>>>>> The Ultimate Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (1979-1992)
>>>>>>> Daughters of a Coral Dawn - Katherine V. Forrest (1984)
>>>>>>> Psion - Joan D. Vinge (1982)
>>>>>>> Vampire Hunter D - Hideyuki Kikuchi (1983 - present)
>>>>>>> Akira - Katsuhiro Otomo (1982-1990)
>>>>>>> Neuromancer - William Gibson (1984)
>>>>>>> The Handmaid’s Tale - Margaret Atwood (1985)
>>>>>>> Watchmen - Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons (1986-1987)
>>>>>>> Lilith’s Brood - Octavia E. Butler (1987-1989)
>>>>>>> Ghost in the Shell: Deluxe Complete Box Set - Masamune Shriow
>>>>>>> (1989-1997)
>>>>>>> Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton (1990)
>>>>>>> Ring - Koji Suzuki (1991)
>>>>>>> Pretty Guardian Sailor moon - Naoko Takeuchi (1991-1997)
>>>>>>> The Thrawn Trilogy - Timothy Zahn (1991-1993)
>>>>>>> Ammonite - Nicola Griffith (1992)
>>>>>>> The Children of Men - PD James (1992)
>>>>>>> Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson (1992)
>>>>>>> Doomsday Book - Connie Willis (1992)
>>>>>>> Uzumaki - Junji Ito (1998-1999)
>>>>>>> A Civil Campaign - Lois McMaster Bujold (1999)
>>>>>>> Battle Royale - Koushun Takami (1999)
>>>>>>> Midnight Robber - Nalo Hopkinson (2000)
>>>>>>> Dark Matter: A Centruy of Speculative Fiction from the African
>>>>>>> Diaspora - ed. by Sheree Renee Thomas (2000)
>>>>>>> The Three-Body Problem - Cixin Liu (2008)
>>>>>>> Leviathan Wakes - James S.A. Corey (2011)
>>>>>>> Cinder - Marissa Meyer (2012)
>>>>>>> The Imperial Radch Trilogy - Ann Leckie (2013-2016)
>>>>>>> Station Eleven - Emily St. John Mandel (2014)
>>>>>>> Area X: The Southern Reach Trilogy - Jeff Vandermeer (2014)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  From here, the article’s author predicts some works from 2015 &
>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>> that may well become influential. I didn’t add those works here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that the list does not mention Perry Rhodan, David Weber, or
>>>>>> John Ringo makes the list very suspect in my mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perry Rhodan's a good fit, I'd say. Are Weber and Ringo influential?
>>>>> Sell well, sure - but influential isn't so clear to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>> We get the term "missile porn" from Weber.  We get ??? from Ringo, I
>>>> guess just a lot of freaking books.
>>>>
>>> Ringo gives us less-than-one-dimensional characters - something I had
>>> not previously thought possible.
>>>
>>>      Cheers,
>>>          Gary    B-)
>>
>> Any book in particular or all 51 of his published books ?
>>
> The few I've been able to finish are the first of the "March Up You Own
> Fundament" series, with Weber (they were given to me), and - if you can
> summon sufficient suspension-of-disbelief to get past the initial zombie
> thing being allowed to happen - shows just how much the characters
> depended on Weber, which is a strange sentence to write in itself!!
>
> I didn't finish the one where they take over the spaceport, it just got
> too silly.
>
> I tried the first Posleen, but it hit the wall with the eight deadly
> words fairly quickly.
>
>     Cheers,
>         Gary    B-)

I guess that we have to agree to disagree on Ringo then. I like his
characters.

Lynn

In article <skld3p$uvq$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/18/2021 9:38 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>> Ringo gives us less-than-one-dimensional characters - something I had
>>>> not previously thought possible.
>>>>
>>>>      Cheers,
>>>>          Gary    B-)
>>>
>>> Any book in particular or all 51 of his published books ?
>>>
>> The few I've been able to finish are the first of the "March Up You Own
>> Fundament" series, with Weber (they were given to me), and - if you can
>> summon sufficient suspension-of-disbelief to get past the initial zombie
>> thing being allowed to happen - shows just how much the characters
>> depended on Weber, which is a strange sentence to write in itself!!
>>
>> I didn't finish the one where they take over the spaceport, it just got
>> too silly.
>>
>> I tried the first Posleen, but it hit the wall with the eight deadly
>> words fairly quickly.
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>         Gary    B-)
>
>I guess that we have to agree to disagree on Ringo then. I like his
>characters.
>
>Lynn
>

I thought the main character of the Troy series was pretty good. I remember
him standing in the open arguing Civil War trivia while fully expecting the
world to end in the next few minutes. It was a nice scene.

Did that series ever finish? It seemed like it kind of just stopped to me.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 4:17:43 AM UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <skld3p$uvq$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 10/18/2021 9:38 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
> >>>> Ringo gives us less-than-one-dimensional characters - something I had
> >>>> not previously thought possible.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Gary B-)
> >>>
> >>> Any book in particular or all 51 of his published books ?
> >>>
> >> The few I've been able to finish are the first of the "March Up You Own
> >> Fundament" series, with Weber (they were given to me), and - if you can
> >> summon sufficient suspension-of-disbelief to get past the initial zombie
> >> thing being allowed to happen - shows just how much the characters
> >> depended on Weber, which is a strange sentence to write in itself!!
> >>
> >> I didn't finish the one where they take over the spaceport, it just got
> >> too silly.
> >>
> >> I tried the first Posleen, but it hit the wall with the eight deadly
> >> words fairly quickly.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Gary B-)
> >
> >I guess that we have to agree to disagree on Ringo then. I like his
> >characters.
> >
> >Lynn
> >
> I thought the main character of the Troy series was pretty good. I remember
> him standing in the open arguing Civil War trivia while fully expecting the
> world to end in the next few minutes. It was a nice scene.
>
> Did that series ever finish? It seemed like it kind of just stopped to me..
> --
> columbiaclosings.com
> What's not in Columbia anymore..
It looked to me like the end of a trilogy, but with room left open for more if the author so desired. I don't remember a great deal about the final book, but I have a feeling that the original main character had got senior enough and old enough to fade out of the series by then.

In article <0606440e-d0a0-43b5-a43e-bd60c1a1bdc7n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew McDowell <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 4:17:43 AM UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <skld3p$uvq$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On 10/18/2021 9:38 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>> >>>> Ringo gives us less-than-one-dimensional characters - something I had
>> >>>> not previously thought possible.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>> Gary B-)
>> >>>
>> >>> Any book in particular or all 51 of his published books ?
>> >>>
>> >> The few I've been able to finish are the first of the "March Up You Own
>> >> Fundament" series, with Weber (they were given to me), and - if you can
>> >> summon sufficient suspension-of-disbelief to get past the initial zombie
>> >> thing being allowed to happen - shows just how much the characters
>> >> depended on Weber, which is a strange sentence to write in itself!!
>> >>
>> >> I didn't finish the one where they take over the spaceport, it just got
>> >> too silly.
>> >>
>> >> I tried the first Posleen, but it hit the wall with the eight deadly
>> >> words fairly quickly.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Gary B-)
>> >
>> >I guess that we have to agree to disagree on Ringo then. I like his
>> >characters.
>> >
>> >Lynn
>> >
>> I thought the main character of the Troy series was pretty good. I remember
>> him standing in the open arguing Civil War trivia while fully expecting the
>> world to end in the next few minutes. It was a nice scene.
>>
>> Did that series ever finish? It seemed like it kind of just stopped to me.
>> --
>> columbiaclosings.com
>> What's not in Columbia anymore..
>It looked to me like the end of a trilogy, but with room left open for
>more if the author so desired. I don't remember a great deal about the
>final book, but I have a feeling that the original main character had
>got senior enough and old enough to fade out of the series by then.

That's a bit that didn't make much sense to me. With the med-tech they had
by the end of the war, age shouldn't have been a thing.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..