On 2/11/21 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>> On 1/11/2021 3:35 pm, alvey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 15:06:28 +0800, Clocky wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/11/2021 2:05 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 1/11/21 11:04 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/11/2021 5:11 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Oct 2021 19:11:45 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 31/10/2021 2:06 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/31/2021 12:28 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 30/10/2021 7:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not a car. Try aus.trucks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Why?, its *Not* a truck!. Only seppo`s (and you) call a
>>>>>>>>> *utility
>>>>>>>>> vehicle* a truck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jerky Birko suffering from a bit of relevance deprivation, is he?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still get a laugh everytime the Fraudster plays his "relevance
>>>>>>> deprivation" card. It reminds me of 'Opposite Day' from Archer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> alvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's hilarious when you consider the original grandstanding relevance
>>>>>> deprived post where anyone with a clue would have just correctly
>>>>>> diagnosed fixed it without making a big song and dance about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This remedial shit he posts is just too funny to someone with
>>>>>> qualifications and he's never know why :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously that's not you, someone with qualifications that is, your
>>>>> comments indicate that you don't know your arse from your elbow.
>>>>
>>>> You're such a good mechanic you became a dunny cleaner and managed to
>>>> fuck that up as well. What would you know?
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could ask Deryl for an example or two of where you confused
>>> arse with elbow?
>>>
>>> I liked this bit too. "...fuck off back to the kill file till you
>>> grow up."
>>> Grown-ups don't stick their fingers in their ears and shout "La la la
>>> la la
>>> la la" when they don't like what they're hearing Deryl.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> No, you and Jeckle simply snipe and run away!. Big girls blouses, and
> good at it. <Shrug>

I should thank him for proving my point.

--
Daryl

On 1/11/2021 11:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 1/11/2021 12:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 31/10/2021 5:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 31/10/2021 11:55 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 30/10/2021 9:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>
>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool old
>>>>> thing and I love it to death.
>>>>>
>>>>> But....
>>>>>
>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he was
>>>>> doing, and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I bought
>>>>> it last year.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's coming good, and I've got most stuff sorted on it, but one
>>>>> problem thing it's had since the day I got the thing is an
>>>>> intermittent ignition stumble, and because it's been *very* random
>>>>> it's been terribly hard to pinpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Until yesterday :)
>>>>>
>>>>> The truck has it's original 272 cube Y Block V8 that was
>>>>> reconditioned not long before I bought the thing, and is standard
>>>>> apart from having an alloy 4 barrel manifold, an Edelbrock 1405
>>>>> carb, a nice set of ceramic coated headers and an MSD "ready to
>>>>> run" distributor.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of these:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.vpw.com.au/parts/MSD-8383
>>>>>
>>>>> These ready to run things are a quick and easy convert to
>>>>> electronic ignition for older shitheaps like this, as they're all
>>>>> fully self contained with a single pole reluctor trigger and an
>>>>> ignition module mounted under the base plate. All they need is a
>>>>> power feed from the coil and they're good to go. They also have a
>>>>> couple of cool features such as a built in rev limiter which is
>>>>> programmed by momentarily earthing the tach signal wire while the
>>>>> engine is running, and their best feature in my opinion is that the
>>>>> mechanical advance mechanism is *above* the base plate under the
>>>>> rotor which makes changing the advance curve a five minute job.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the downside, I found out not so long ago that MSD gear is now
>>>>> made in China, and that gave me cause to be concerned as Chinese
>>>>> automotive electrical components don't have a stellar reputation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, that theory was confirmed yesterday morning when I was
>>>>> coming back home from a trip into town when the thing suddenly
>>>>> started carrying on like crazy and would refuse to run for more
>>>>> than a couple of seconds. Long story short after much pushing,
>>>>> swearing and short stop start driving I managed to get it home and
>>>>> start my diagnosis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Checked everything. Coil, wiring, relays, temperature, the lot.
>>>>> Nothing seemed to be out of order. Last thing left to do was pull
>>>>> the distributor and have a look at it, but given that it was fitted
>>>>> brand new and has only *just* clocked 2000 miles I wasn't expecting
>>>>> it to be where the problem lay.
>>>>>
>>>>> Murphy's first law of automotive diagnosis: Assume nothing :)
>>>>>
>>>>> The distributor shaft needs to be removed to remove the base plate
>>>>> and get to the ignition module. As I was peering under the module
>>>>> when lifting it as far as the wiring harness would allow, I saw this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ7
>>>>>
>>>>> Uh-oh :) I don't think that should be there :)
>>>>>
>>>>> The wiring harness sheath had melted itself together, so after
>>>>> cutting if off and removing the base plate, the ignition module
>>>>> looked like this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ9
>>>>>
>>>>> Fucking nasty. Massive overheat by the looks, but this thing was
>>>>> wired *exactly* as MSD's instruction book said it needed to be. The
>>>>> melted brown wire was actually jammed in between the capacitor and
>>>>> the remaining resistor where it met up with the other three wires
>>>>> and was fed out through the sheath in the lower part of the housing.
>>>>>
>>>>> And on the other side, we had this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQB
>>>>>
>>>>> Just fuck. Massive fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said, this is a new distributor that the previous owner paid
>>>>> over a thousand bucks for, it's done just over 2000 miles and it
>>>>> has been installed *precisely* as instructed buy the company who
>>>>> made it. Pretty piss fucking poor if you ask me, and a *perfect*
>>>>> example of how paying high prices for "brand names" isn't all that
>>>>> great an idea these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> The solution is to buy a new replacement ignition module which
>>>>> comes as a "kit" which includes the module itself, the base plate,
>>>>> the advance plate and the magnetic pick up. But given that they're
>>>>> 300 bucks Australian and and are 6 weeks away in the US, I'm not
>>>>> all that keen to wait that long let alone to pay that kind of money
>>>>> only to have the exact same thing that fucked up in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> So we move to plan B, which is to try using a remote ignition module.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that the triggering mechanism in the distributor is a basic
>>>>> single pole reluctor it should work with *any* generic module like
>>>>> a Bosch 021 or a GM HEI, and given that I have both of those here
>>>>> and nothing else to lose my plan is to gut the distributor and just
>>>>> leave the reluctor and pickup in place and feed those into a 4 pin
>>>>> HEI module which I can mount in an enclosure on the firewall. I
>>>>> can't see why it wouldn't work, and I'll know by this time tomorrow
>>>>> if it does. If it does it will be a good cheap home brew fix that
>>>>> will hopefully help other MSD owners avoid a massive repair bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the mean time, if anyone's thinking of purchasing automotive
>>>>> ignition products any time soon my recommendation would be to stay
>>>>> the *fuck* away from anything offered by MSD.
>>>>
>>>> A bit of a disaster! We have a destroyed MOSFET, an exploded
>>>> capacitor, a burnt wire and a resistor that has got so hot that it
>>>> has melted its solder connections.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The capacitor that has exploded is interesting, without a circuit
>>>> I'd have to guess that it performs the same function as the
>>>> condensor (an ancient name for a capacitor) in a Kettering ignition
>>>> system i.e. absorbing the back EMF from the primary of the coil when
>>>> the points open or in this case when the MOSFET switches off. If
>>>> that were the case then the MOSFET would get the whole back EMF and
>>>> self destruct. The resistor that fell out could possibly be a
>>>> ballast resistor, if the MOSFET failed short circuit then 12v would
>>>> be constantly across the coil primary and the resistor in series and
>>>> the resistor would be dissipating rather more power than it was
>>>> designed for (remember the days when it was recommended not to leave
>>>> the ignition on for long periods with the engine stopped to avoid
>>>> overheating the ballast resistor). The wire is only burned in on
>>>> spot, probably because it was in contact with the resistor.
>>>>
>>>> The upshot is that my guess is that the capacitor was underrated and
>>>> its demise lead to all of this.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are a few components that need to be checked if a repair is
>>> attempted. Since he reported erratic ignition stumble prior to
>>> failure I know *exactly* where I would start. The repair is trivial,
>>> anyone with basic electronics knowledge and soldering skill can fix
>>> it for a few dollars.
>>
>> Obviously the MOSFET and capacitor would need to be replaced, the
>> capacitor with a higher working voltage item. R23 could probably just
>> be soldered back in (after checking it) and the orange wire replaced.
>>
>> Then work from there, possibly being suspicious of the coil.
>
> A reasonable assumption however a Zener diode is prone to failure on
> certain MSD distributors the symptom of which might be commonly noted as
> an "erratic ignition stumble" prior to MOSFET failure. The Zener diode
> has an important (and fairly typical, I'm sure you can work out) role in
> this design and also must be replaced. The issue is not of cheapness of
> components or "China" but of lousy design by MSD.

On 1/11/2021 10:02 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 1/11/21 6:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 1/11/2021 4:01 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 1/11/21 2:27 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:18:38 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/11/2021 7:33 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 22:57:29 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool old
>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> and I love it to death.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he was
>>>>>>> doing,
>>>>>>> and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I bought it
>>>>>>> last year.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course.  Old cars suffer from a myriad of problems most of which
>>>>>> are hidden.  My poor cousin is restoring a very old Bugatti
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll let you in on a little secret here. There are very few "poor"
>>>>> people who own "very old" Bugatti's, and even fewer who restore them.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and was told the wreck he bought was a pastiche of various models.
>>>>>> He has
>>>>>> spent a fortune on machining costs, coach work, primitive-engine
>>>>>> repairs, radiator reconstruction, body welding etc and the latest
>>>>>> disaster involves the drive shaft which is too long or too short now
>>>>>> necessitating an adjustment via specialist lathe work. Or even
>>>>>> stretching the whole body.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry? Stretching bodywork to accomodate a drive shaft that is the
>>>>> wrong length?
>>>> Yep. Cheaper, evidently.  The bodywork is all welds and not critical
>>>> to engine performance.
>>>
>>> LOL, that is nonsense, altering the length of a driveshaft isn't
>>> difficult or expensive and its a hell of a lot cheaper and easier
>>> than modifying a chassis.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously, why do you bother making this stuff up? It's clear to Helen
>>>>> Keller that you have no idea what you're talking about, and are only
>>>>> making yourself look like a complete idiot.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you're an armchair restorer.  I have dabbled in the art
>>>> restoring an old 1930s Austin7 convertible.  But I was lucky enough to
>>>> find an old mechanic who used to rebuild the tiny engines.   The
>>>> bodywork defeated me because of the stellar  costs.  The brakes were a
>>>> joke.
>>>
>>> The Austin 7 chassis is wooden, what you needed was a carpenter:-)
>>
>> Not on the ones that I have seen, there is wood in the bodywork but
>> the chassis was steel
>
> Ex Brother in law owned (AFAIK he still has it) a 1937 Austin7 which I
> have worked on the engine and I was told it had a part wooden chassis,
> his father was a carpenter and he replaced most of the wood.
> Never actually saw the body or chassis so I'm only going on what he told
> me, its possible his description was wrong.
>>
>>> The brakes are simple, just don't work very well.
>>
>> The problem with the front brakes at least is that the rods pull on a
>> lever on the bottom of the drums. The front axle is flimsy and under
>> braking twists moving the bottom of the drum back and self unservoing
>> the brakes. The standard fix was to convert to cable actuation with
>> the cable going over the top of the axle curving around the front and
>> down to the actuation lever.
>>
>> In the hostel where I lived for 5 years as an apprentice there must
>> have been at least half a dozen of the things at any given time. They
>> usually ended up tipped on their side (they didn't corner well) and
>> being stripped for spares for the next one, they were as cheap as chips.
>
> Sounds about right:-)
> I remember my father telling me about tipping his mates Austin 7 over to
> fix something underneath.
> I mostly worked on the engine which I had at my place, had to put some
> of it together, it had a weird distributor drive, weird in that it was
> driven off the back of the generator which was gear driven off the front
> of the engine so it took a while to work out the timing.
> I made a wooden frame to mount the engine and when I tried to start it I
> found that it would only start and run for a short time but only if the
> throttle was wide open.
> I found that the main jet was missing from the carby, BIL took the
> engine back and was going to try and find a main jet but I've never seen
> it since, AFAIK he hasn't done anything with it, its stored somewhere in
> bits.
> I think he keeps it because it was a project he worked on in his teens
> with his long dead dad.

There were two types of engine, those what had a 2 bearing crank, and
those with 3 bearings. If tuning one for racing (amazingly many did) the
2 bearing was preferred as there was so much crankshaft whip that it
could break the centre bearing out of the crankcase. With the 2 bearing
one the centre pistons could actually hit the head if revved too high.
Not too much of a disaster on a side-valve though.

Two of my school friends had them, one was not much of a mechanic, he
had a jar of nuts and bolts left over from each time he stripped
something, he went on to be a draughtsman for Fisher and Pykel! He
carried a brick to stick under a wheel when parking because the
handbrake didn't work, and was always careful to park with the canvas
patches on the tyres facing down. The other friend had a "Boat tailed
chummy" probably worth a but these days, the "Chummy" bit meant that it
was a 2 seat convertible, and, in a bit of 1930s streamlining, the boot
was shaped like the bow of a boat. Startlingly, after going out on a
trip we found that 3 of the 4 lugs that fastened the steering box the
the (metal) chassis were cracked right through.

On 2/11/2021 5:24 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 1/11/2021 11:05 pm, Clocky wrote:

>>> Obviously the MOSFET and capacitor would need to be replaced, the
>>> capacitor with a higher working voltage item. R23 could probably just
>>> be soldered back in (after checking it) and the orange wire replaced.
>>>
>>> Then work from there, possibly being suspicious of the coil.
>>
>> A reasonable assumption however a Zener diode is prone to failure on
>> certain MSD distributors the symptom of which might be commonly noted
>> as an "erratic ignition stumble" prior to MOSFET failure. The Zener
>> diode has an important (and fairly typical, I'm sure you can work out)
>> role in this design and also must be replaced. The issue is not of
>> cheapness of components or "China" but of lousy design by MSD.
>
> Knowing nothing about MSD distributors other than those 3 pictures, you
> may well be right.

I seriously doubt it :)

About as close as Jerky has ever got to an MSD distributor is looking at
the photos I provided as well as Googling his head off in a pathetic
attempt to try to sound authorative on the subject. Such is the hold his
personality disorder has over him. Had he been a little more thorough
in his research he would have discovered that MSD had been making
distributors as well as other ignition components in the US for many
years with their products being uber reliable and their reputation being
accordingly stellar.

It was only after MSD was swallowed up by the Holley group and their
production moved off shore to China did problems begin. The design of
the products never changed in the process, but you can bet your balls
the unit production cost did :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 2/11/21 5:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 1/11/2021 10:02 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 1/11/21 6:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 1/11/2021 4:01 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 1/11/21 2:27 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:18:38 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/11/2021 7:33 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 22:57:29 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool
>>>>>>>> old thing
>>>>>>>> and I love it to death.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he
>>>>>>>> was doing,
>>>>>>>> and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I bought it
>>>>>>>> last year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course.  Old cars suffer from a myriad of problems most of which
>>>>>>> are hidden.  My poor cousin is restoring a very old Bugatti
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll let you in on a little secret here. There are very few "poor"
>>>>>> people who own "very old" Bugatti's, and even fewer who restore them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and was told the wreck he bought was a pastiche of various
>>>>>>> models. He has
>>>>>>> spent a fortune on machining costs, coach work, primitive-engine
>>>>>>> repairs, radiator reconstruction, body welding etc and the latest
>>>>>>> disaster involves the drive shaft which is too long or too short now
>>>>>>> necessitating an adjustment via specialist lathe work. Or even
>>>>>>> stretching the whole body.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry? Stretching bodywork to accomodate a drive shaft that is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> wrong length?
>>>>> Yep. Cheaper, evidently.  The bodywork is all welds and not critical
>>>>> to engine performance.
>>>>
>>>> LOL, that is nonsense, altering the length of a driveshaft isn't
>>>> difficult or expensive and its a hell of a lot cheaper and easier
>>>> than modifying a chassis.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seriously, why do you bother making this stuff up? It's clear to
>>>>>> Helen
>>>>>> Keller that you have no idea what you're talking about, and are only
>>>>>> making yourself look like a complete idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you're an armchair restorer.  I have dabbled in the art
>>>>> restoring an old 1930s Austin7 convertible.  But I was lucky enough to
>>>>> find an old mechanic who used to rebuild the tiny engines.   The
>>>>> bodywork defeated me because of the stellar  costs.  The brakes were a
>>>>> joke.
>>>>
>>>> The Austin 7 chassis is wooden, what you needed was a carpenter:-)
>>>
>>> Not on the ones that I have seen, there is wood in the bodywork but
>>> the chassis was steel
>>
>> Ex Brother in law owned (AFAIK he still has it) a 1937 Austin7 which I
>> have worked on the engine and I was told it had a part wooden chassis,
>> his father was a carpenter and he replaced most of the wood.
>> Never actually saw the body or chassis so I'm only going on what he
>> told me, its possible his description was wrong.
>>>
>>>> The brakes are simple, just don't work very well.
>>>
>>> The problem with the front brakes at least is that the rods pull on a
>>> lever on the bottom of the drums. The front axle is flimsy and under
>>> braking twists moving the bottom of the drum back and self unservoing
>>> the brakes. The standard fix was to convert to cable actuation with
>>> the cable going over the top of the axle curving around the front and
>>> down to the actuation lever.
>>>
>>> In the hostel where I lived for 5 years as an apprentice there must
>>> have been at least half a dozen of the things at any given time. They
>>> usually ended up tipped on their side (they didn't corner well) and
>>> being stripped for spares for the next one, they were as cheap as chips.
>>
>> Sounds about right:-)
>> I remember my father telling me about tipping his mates Austin 7 over
>> to fix something underneath.
>> I mostly worked on the engine which I had at my place, had to put some
>> of it together, it had a weird distributor drive, weird in that it was
>> driven off the back of the generator which was gear driven off the
>> front of the engine so it took a while to work out the timing.
>> I made a wooden frame to mount the engine and when I tried to start it
>> I found that it would only start and run for a short time but only if
>> the throttle was wide open.
>> I found that the main jet was missing from the carby, BIL took the
>> engine back and was going to try and find a main jet but I've never
>> seen it since, AFAIK he hasn't done anything with it, its stored
>> somewhere in bits.
>> I think he keeps it because it was a project he worked on in his teens
>> with his long dead dad.
>
> There were two types of engine, those what had a 2 bearing crank, and
> those with 3 bearings. If tuning one for racing (amazingly many did) the
> 2 bearing was preferred as there was so much crankshaft whip that it
> could break the centre bearing out of the crankcase. With the 2 bearing
> one the centre pistons could actually hit the head if revved too high.
> Not too much of a disaster on a side-valve though.

Not 100% sure but I think the one I worked on only had 2 main bearings,
I remember thinking that it was a very weak engine.
>
> Two of my school friends had them, one was not much of a mechanic, he
> had a jar of nuts and bolts left over from each time he stripped
> something, he went on to be a draughtsman for Fisher and Pykel! He
> carried a brick to stick under a wheel when parking because the
> handbrake didn't work, and was always careful to park with the canvas
> patches on the tyres facing down. The other friend had a "Boat tailed
> chummy" probably worth a but these days, the "Chummy" bit meant that it
> was a 2 seat convertible, and, in a bit of 1930s streamlining, the boot
> was shaped like the bow of a boat.

Sounds exactly like the BIL's or that's how he described it.

Startlingly, after going out on a
> trip we found that 3 of the 4 lugs that fastened the steering box the
> the (metal) chassis were cracked right through.
>
Yipes, sometimes I wonder how people lived to old age after spending a
lot of time in those old cars, most likely they survived because they
had to learn to be better drivers because the cars were so bad.

--
Daryl

On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 16:54:25 +1100, Daryl wrote:

> On 2/11/21 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 1/11/2021 3:35 pm, alvey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 15:06:28 +0800, Clocky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/11/2021 2:05 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/11/21 11:04 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/11/2021 5:11 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Oct 2021 19:11:45 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 31/10/2021 2:06 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/31/2021 12:28 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/10/2021 7:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a car. Try aus.trucks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Why?, its *Not* a truck!. Only seppo`s (and you) call a
>>>>>>>>>> *utility
>>>>>>>>>> vehicle* a truck.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jerky Birko suffering from a bit of relevance deprivation, is he?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still get a laugh everytime the Fraudster plays his "relevance
>>>>>>>> deprivation" card. It reminds me of 'Opposite Day' from Archer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> alvey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's hilarious when you consider the original grandstanding relevance
>>>>>>> deprived post where anyone with a clue would have just correctly
>>>>>>> diagnosed fixed it without making a big song and dance about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This remedial shit he posts is just too funny to someone with
>>>>>>> qualifications and he's never know why :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously that's not you, someone with qualifications that is, your
>>>>>> comments indicate that you don't know your arse from your elbow.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're such a good mechanic you became a dunny cleaner and managed to
>>>>> fuck that up as well. What would you know?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you could ask Deryl for an example or two of where you confused
>>>> arse with elbow?
>>>>
>>>> I liked this bit too. "...fuck off back to the kill file till you
>>>> grow up."
>>>> Grown-ups don't stick their fingers in their ears and shout "La la la
>>>> la la
>>>> la la" when they don't like what they're hearing Deryl.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> No, you and Jeckle simply snipe and run away!. Big girls blouses, and
>> good at it. <Shrug>

Hey Clock! Do you know who he's talking to?

>
> I should thank him for proving my point.

Bad news for you Deryl. The only "point" you have is to enable an abusive
fraud who has been proven to tell whopping great lies.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2/11/2021 3:38 pm, alvey wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 16:54:25 +1100, Daryl wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/21 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 1/11/2021 3:35 pm, alvey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 15:06:28 +0800, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/11/2021 2:05 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/11/21 11:04 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/11/2021 5:11 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Oct 2021 19:11:45 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 31/10/2021 2:06 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/31/2021 12:28 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/10/2021 7:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a car. Try aus.trucks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Why?, its *Not* a truck!. Only seppo`s (and you) call a
>>>>>>>>>>> *utility
>>>>>>>>>>> vehicle* a truck.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jerky Birko suffering from a bit of relevance deprivation, is he?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> lol.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I still get a laugh everytime the Fraudster plays his "relevance
>>>>>>>>> deprivation" card. It reminds me of 'Opposite Day' from Archer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> alvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's hilarious when you consider the original grandstanding relevance
>>>>>>>> deprived post where anyone with a clue would have just correctly
>>>>>>>> diagnosed fixed it without making a big song and dance about it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This remedial shit he posts is just too funny to someone with
>>>>>>>> qualifications and he's never know why :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously that's not you, someone with qualifications that is, your
>>>>>>> comments indicate that you don't know your arse from your elbow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're such a good mechanic you became a dunny cleaner and managed to
>>>>>> fuck that up as well. What would you know?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you could ask Deryl for an example or two of where you confused
>>>>> arse with elbow?
>>>>>
>>>>> I liked this bit too. "...fuck off back to the kill file till you
>>>>> grow up."
>>>>> Grown-ups don't stick their fingers in their ears and shout "La la la
>>>>> la la
>>>>> la la" when they don't like what they're hearing Deryl.
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> No, you and Jeckle simply snipe and run away!. Big girls blouses, and
>>> good at it. <Shrug>
>
> Hey Clock! Do you know who he's talking to?

He's talking to the two who snipe and run away, so that can only be
Dazzler and Derro.

>
>>
>> I should thank him for proving my point.
>
> Bad news for you Deryl. The only "point" you have is to enable an abusive
> fraud who has been proven to tell whopping great lies.
>
>

Indeed!

On 2/11/2021 3:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 2/11/2021 5:24 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 1/11/2021 11:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>
>>>> Obviously the MOSFET and capacitor would need to be replaced, the
>>>> capacitor with a higher working voltage item. R23 could probably
>>>> just be soldered back in (after checking it) and the orange wire
>>>> replaced.
>>>>
>>>> Then work from there, possibly being suspicious of the coil.
>>>
>>> A reasonable assumption however a Zener diode is prone to failure on
>>> certain MSD distributors the symptom of which might be commonly noted
>>> as an "erratic ignition stumble" prior to MOSFET failure. The Zener
>>> diode has an important (and fairly typical, I'm sure you can work
>>> out) role in this design and also must be replaced. The issue is not
>>> of cheapness of components or "China" but of lousy design by MSD.
>>
>> Knowing nothing about MSD distributors other than those 3 pictures,
>> you may well be right.
>
> I seriously doubt it :)

FFS I've only been working as a qualified auto sparky in the trade for
the last 5 years.

There is no doubt *you* are clueless but then you're not qualified and
you have *no* trade experience.

That is *blindingly* obvious.

On 2/11/2021 2:24 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 1/11/2021 11:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 1/11/2021 12:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 31/10/2021 5:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 31/10/2021 11:55 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 30/10/2021 9:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool old
>>>>>> thing and I love it to death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he was
>>>>>> doing, and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I bought
>>>>>> it last year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's coming good, and I've got most stuff sorted on it, but one
>>>>>> problem thing it's had since the day I got the thing is an
>>>>>> intermittent ignition stumble, and because it's been *very* random
>>>>>> it's been terribly hard to pinpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until yesterday :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The truck has it's original 272 cube Y Block V8 that was
>>>>>> reconditioned not long before I bought the thing, and is standard
>>>>>> apart from having an alloy 4 barrel manifold, an Edelbrock 1405
>>>>>> carb, a nice set of ceramic coated headers and an MSD "ready to
>>>>>> run" distributor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of these:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.vpw.com.au/parts/MSD-8383
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These ready to run things are a quick and easy convert to
>>>>>> electronic ignition for older shitheaps like this, as they're all
>>>>>> fully self contained with a single pole reluctor trigger and an
>>>>>> ignition module mounted under the base plate. All they need is a
>>>>>> power feed from the coil and they're good to go. They also have a
>>>>>> couple of cool features such as a built in rev limiter which is
>>>>>> programmed by momentarily earthing the tach signal wire while the
>>>>>> engine is running, and their best feature in my opinion is that
>>>>>> the mechanical advance mechanism is *above* the base plate under
>>>>>> the rotor which makes changing the advance curve a five minute job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the downside, I found out not so long ago that MSD gear is now
>>>>>> made in China, and that gave me cause to be concerned as Chinese
>>>>>> automotive electrical components don't have a stellar reputation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, that theory was confirmed yesterday morning when I was
>>>>>> coming back home from a trip into town when the thing suddenly
>>>>>> started carrying on like crazy and would refuse to run for more
>>>>>> than a couple of seconds. Long story short after much pushing,
>>>>>> swearing and short stop start driving I managed to get it home and
>>>>>> start my diagnosis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Checked everything. Coil, wiring, relays, temperature, the lot.
>>>>>> Nothing seemed to be out of order. Last thing left to do was pull
>>>>>> the distributor and have a look at it, but given that it was
>>>>>> fitted brand new and has only *just* clocked 2000 miles I wasn't
>>>>>> expecting it to be where the problem lay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Murphy's first law of automotive diagnosis: Assume nothing :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The distributor shaft needs to be removed to remove the base plate
>>>>>> and get to the ignition module. As I was peering under the module
>>>>>> when lifting it as far as the wiring harness would allow, I saw this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uh-oh :) I don't think that should be there :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The wiring harness sheath had melted itself together, so after
>>>>>> cutting if off and removing the base plate, the ignition module
>>>>>> looked like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ9
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fucking nasty. Massive overheat by the looks, but this thing was
>>>>>> wired *exactly* as MSD's instruction book said it needed to be.
>>>>>> The melted brown wire was actually jammed in between the capacitor
>>>>>> and the remaining resistor where it met up with the other three
>>>>>> wires and was fed out through the sheath in the lower part of the
>>>>>> housing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And on the other side, we had this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just fuck. Massive fail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I said, this is a new distributor that the previous owner paid
>>>>>> over a thousand bucks for, it's done just over 2000 miles and it
>>>>>> has been installed *precisely* as instructed buy the company who
>>>>>> made it. Pretty piss fucking poor if you ask me, and a *perfect*
>>>>>> example of how paying high prices for "brand names" isn't all that
>>>>>> great an idea these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The solution is to buy a new replacement ignition module which
>>>>>> comes as a "kit" which includes the module itself, the base plate,
>>>>>> the advance plate and the magnetic pick up. But given that they're
>>>>>> 300 bucks Australian and and are 6 weeks away in the US, I'm not
>>>>>> all that keen to wait that long let alone to pay that kind of
>>>>>> money only to have the exact same thing that fucked up in the
>>>>>> first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So we move to plan B, which is to try using a remote ignition module.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that the triggering mechanism in the distributor is a basic
>>>>>> single pole reluctor it should work with *any* generic module like
>>>>>> a Bosch 021 or a GM HEI, and given that I have both of those here
>>>>>> and nothing else to lose my plan is to gut the distributor and
>>>>>> just leave the reluctor and pickup in place and feed those into a
>>>>>> 4 pin HEI module which I can mount in an enclosure on the
>>>>>> firewall. I can't see why it wouldn't work, and I'll know by this
>>>>>> time tomorrow if it does. If it does it will be a good cheap home
>>>>>> brew fix that will hopefully help other MSD owners avoid a massive
>>>>>> repair bill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the mean time, if anyone's thinking of purchasing automotive
>>>>>> ignition products any time soon my recommendation would be to stay
>>>>>> the *fuck* away from anything offered by MSD.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit of a disaster! We have a destroyed MOSFET, an exploded
>>>>> capacitor, a burnt wire and a resistor that has got so hot that it
>>>>> has melted its solder connections.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The capacitor that has exploded is interesting, without a circuit
>>>>> I'd have to guess that it performs the same function as the
>>>>> condensor (an ancient name for a capacitor) in a Kettering ignition
>>>>> system i.e. absorbing the back EMF from the primary of the coil
>>>>> when the points open or in this case when the MOSFET switches off.
>>>>> If that were the case then the MOSFET would get the whole back EMF
>>>>> and self destruct. The resistor that fell out could possibly be a
>>>>> ballast resistor, if the MOSFET failed short circuit then 12v would
>>>>> be constantly across the coil primary and the resistor in series
>>>>> and the resistor would be dissipating rather more power than it was
>>>>> designed for (remember the days when it was recommended not to
>>>>> leave the ignition on for long periods with the engine stopped to
>>>>> avoid overheating the ballast resistor). The wire is only burned in
>>>>> on spot, probably because it was in contact with the resistor.
>>>>>
>>>>> The upshot is that my guess is that the capacitor was underrated
>>>>> and its demise lead to all of this.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are a few components that need to be checked if a repair is
>>>> attempted. Since he reported erratic ignition stumble prior to
>>>> failure I know *exactly* where I would start. The repair is trivial,
>>>> anyone with basic electronics knowledge and soldering skill can fix
>>>> it for a few dollars.
>>>
>>> Obviously the MOSFET and capacitor would need to be replaced, the
>>> capacitor with a higher working voltage item. R23 could probably just
>>> be soldered back in (after checking it) and the orange wire replaced.
>>>
>>> Then work from there, possibly being suspicious of the coil.
>>
>> A reasonable assumption however a Zener diode is prone to failure on
>> certain MSD distributors the symptom of which might be commonly noted
>> as an "erratic ignition stumble" prior to MOSFET failure. The Zener
>> diode has an important (and fairly typical, I'm sure you can work out)
>> role in this design and also must be replaced. The issue is not of
>> cheapness of components or "China" but of lousy design by MSD.
>
> Knowing nothing about MSD distributors other than those 3 pictures, you
> may well be right.
>

On 2/11/2021 5:56 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 2/11/2021 2:24 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 1/11/2021 11:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 1/11/2021 12:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 31/10/2021 5:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 31/10/2021 11:55 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/10/2021 9:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool old
>>>>>>> thing and I love it to death.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he was
>>>>>>> doing, and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I bought
>>>>>>> it last year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's coming good, and I've got most stuff sorted on it, but one
>>>>>>> problem thing it's had since the day I got the thing is an
>>>>>>> intermittent ignition stumble, and because it's been *very*
>>>>>>> random it's been terribly hard to pinpoint.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Until yesterday :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The truck has it's original 272 cube Y Block V8 that was
>>>>>>> reconditioned not long before I bought the thing, and is standard
>>>>>>> apart from having an alloy 4 barrel manifold, an Edelbrock 1405
>>>>>>> carb, a nice set of ceramic coated headers and an MSD "ready to
>>>>>>> run" distributor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of these:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.vpw.com.au/parts/MSD-8383
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These ready to run things are a quick and easy convert to
>>>>>>> electronic ignition for older shitheaps like this, as they're all
>>>>>>> fully self contained with a single pole reluctor trigger and an
>>>>>>> ignition module mounted under the base plate. All they need is a
>>>>>>> power feed from the coil and they're good to go. They also have a
>>>>>>> couple of cool features such as a built in rev limiter which is
>>>>>>> programmed by momentarily earthing the tach signal wire while the
>>>>>>> engine is running, and their best feature in my opinion is that
>>>>>>> the mechanical advance mechanism is *above* the base plate under
>>>>>>> the rotor which makes changing the advance curve a five minute job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the downside, I found out not so long ago that MSD gear is now
>>>>>>> made in China, and that gave me cause to be concerned as Chinese
>>>>>>> automotive electrical components don't have a stellar reputation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, that theory was confirmed yesterday morning when I was
>>>>>>> coming back home from a trip into town when the thing suddenly
>>>>>>> started carrying on like crazy and would refuse to run for more
>>>>>>> than a couple of seconds. Long story short after much pushing,
>>>>>>> swearing and short stop start driving I managed to get it home
>>>>>>> and start my diagnosis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Checked everything. Coil, wiring, relays, temperature, the lot.
>>>>>>> Nothing seemed to be out of order. Last thing left to do was pull
>>>>>>> the distributor and have a look at it, but given that it was
>>>>>>> fitted brand new and has only *just* clocked 2000 miles I wasn't
>>>>>>> expecting it to be where the problem lay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Murphy's first law of automotive diagnosis: Assume nothing :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The distributor shaft needs to be removed to remove the base
>>>>>>> plate and get to the ignition module. As I was peering under the
>>>>>>> module when lifting it as far as the wiring harness would allow,
>>>>>>> I saw this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uh-oh :) I don't think that should be there :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The wiring harness sheath had melted itself together, so after
>>>>>>> cutting if off and removing the base plate, the ignition module
>>>>>>> looked like this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ9
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fucking nasty. Massive overheat by the looks, but this thing was
>>>>>>> wired *exactly* as MSD's instruction book said it needed to be.
>>>>>>> The melted brown wire was actually jammed in between the
>>>>>>> capacitor and the remaining resistor where it met up with the
>>>>>>> other three wires and was fed out through the sheath in the lower
>>>>>>> part of the housing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And on the other side, we had this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just fuck. Massive fail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I said, this is a new distributor that the previous owner paid
>>>>>>> over a thousand bucks for, it's done just over 2000 miles and it
>>>>>>> has been installed *precisely* as instructed buy the company who
>>>>>>> made it. Pretty piss fucking poor if you ask me, and a *perfect*
>>>>>>> example of how paying high prices for "brand names" isn't all
>>>>>>> that great an idea these days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The solution is to buy a new replacement ignition module which
>>>>>>> comes as a "kit" which includes the module itself, the base
>>>>>>> plate, the advance plate and the magnetic pick up. But given that
>>>>>>> they're 300 bucks Australian and and are 6 weeks away in the US,
>>>>>>> I'm not all that keen to wait that long let alone to pay that
>>>>>>> kind of money only to have the exact same thing that fucked up in
>>>>>>> the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So we move to plan B, which is to try using a remote ignition
>>>>>>> module.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that the triggering mechanism in the distributor is a basic
>>>>>>> single pole reluctor it should work with *any* generic module
>>>>>>> like a Bosch 021 or a GM HEI, and given that I have both of those
>>>>>>> here and nothing else to lose my plan is to gut the distributor
>>>>>>> and just leave the reluctor and pickup in place and feed those
>>>>>>> into a 4 pin HEI module which I can mount in an enclosure on the
>>>>>>> firewall. I can't see why it wouldn't work, and I'll know by this
>>>>>>> time tomorrow if it does. If it does it will be a good cheap home
>>>>>>> brew fix that will hopefully help other MSD owners avoid a
>>>>>>> massive repair bill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the mean time, if anyone's thinking of purchasing automotive
>>>>>>> ignition products any time soon my recommendation would be to
>>>>>>> stay the *fuck* away from anything offered by MSD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bit of a disaster! We have a destroyed MOSFET, an exploded
>>>>>> capacitor, a burnt wire and a resistor that has got so hot that it
>>>>>> has melted its solder connections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The capacitor that has exploded is interesting, without a circuit
>>>>>> I'd have to guess that it performs the same function as the
>>>>>> condensor (an ancient name for a capacitor) in a Kettering
>>>>>> ignition system i.e. absorbing the back EMF from the primary of
>>>>>> the coil when the points open or in this case when the MOSFET
>>>>>> switches off. If that were the case then the MOSFET would get the
>>>>>> whole back EMF and self destruct. The resistor that fell out could
>>>>>> possibly be a ballast resistor, if the MOSFET failed short circuit
>>>>>> then 12v would be constantly across the coil primary and the
>>>>>> resistor in series and the resistor would be dissipating rather
>>>>>> more power than it was designed for (remember the days when it was
>>>>>> recommended not to leave the ignition on for long periods with the
>>>>>> engine stopped to avoid overheating the ballast resistor). The
>>>>>> wire is only burned in on spot, probably because it was in contact
>>>>>> with the resistor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The upshot is that my guess is that the capacitor was underrated
>>>>>> and its demise lead to all of this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a few components that need to be checked if a repair is
>>>>> attempted. Since he reported erratic ignition stumble prior to
>>>>> failure I know *exactly* where I would start. The repair is
>>>>> trivial, anyone with basic electronics knowledge and soldering
>>>>> skill can fix it for a few dollars.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously the MOSFET and capacitor would need to be replaced, the
>>>> capacitor with a higher working voltage item. R23 could probably
>>>> just be soldered back in (after checking it) and the orange wire
>>>> replaced.
>>>>
>>>> Then work from there, possibly being suspicious of the coil.
>>>
>>> A reasonable assumption however a Zener diode is prone to failure on
>>> certain MSD distributors the symptom of which might be commonly noted
>>> as an "erratic ignition stumble" prior to MOSFET failure. The Zener
>>> diode has an important (and fairly typical, I'm sure you can work
>>> out) role in this design and also must be replaced. The issue is not
>>> of cheapness of components or "China" but of lousy design by MSD.
>>
>> Knowing nothing about MSD distributors other than those 3 pictures,
>> you may well be right.
>>
>
> It a common fault. The Zener is used to regulate the voltage and when it
> fails the rest follows as seen here.
>
> I expect Google to be pretty sluggish with the fraud busy Googling what
> a Zener diode looks like. Maybe I should send him a few, then he'll know
> :-)

On 2/11/2021 5:29 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/11/21 5:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 1/11/2021 10:02 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 1/11/21 6:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 1/11/2021 4:01 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 1/11/21 2:27 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:18:38 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/11/2021 7:33 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 22:57:29 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool
>>>>>>>>> old thing
>>>>>>>>> and I love it to death.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he
>>>>>>>>> was doing,
>>>>>>>>> and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I bought it
>>>>>>>>> last year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course.  Old cars suffer from a myriad of problems most of which
>>>>>>>> are hidden.  My poor cousin is restoring a very old Bugatti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll let you in on a little secret here. There are very few "poor"
>>>>>>> people who own "very old" Bugatti's, and even fewer who restore
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and was told the wreck he bought was a pastiche of various
>>>>>>>> models. He has
>>>>>>>> spent a fortune on machining costs, coach work, primitive-engine
>>>>>>>> repairs, radiator reconstruction, body welding etc and the latest
>>>>>>>> disaster involves the drive shaft which is too long or too short
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> necessitating an adjustment via specialist lathe work. Or even
>>>>>>>> stretching the whole body.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry? Stretching bodywork to accomodate a drive shaft that
>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>> wrong length?
>>>>>> Yep. Cheaper, evidently.  The bodywork is all welds and not critical
>>>>>> to engine performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, that is nonsense, altering the length of a driveshaft isn't
>>>>> difficult or expensive and its a hell of a lot cheaper and easier
>>>>> than modifying a chassis.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seriously, why do you bother making this stuff up? It's clear to
>>>>>>> Helen
>>>>>>> Keller that you have no idea what you're talking about, and are only
>>>>>>> making yourself look like a complete idiot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you're an armchair restorer.  I have dabbled in the art
>>>>>> restoring an old 1930s Austin7 convertible.  But I was lucky
>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>> find an old mechanic who used to rebuild the tiny engines.   The
>>>>>> bodywork defeated me because of the stellar  costs.  The brakes
>>>>>> were a
>>>>>> joke.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Austin 7 chassis is wooden, what you needed was a carpenter:-)
>>>>
>>>> Not on the ones that I have seen, there is wood in the bodywork but
>>>> the chassis was steel
>>>
>>> Ex Brother in law owned (AFAIK he still has it) a 1937 Austin7 which
>>> I have worked on the engine and I was told it had a part wooden
>>> chassis, his father was a carpenter and he replaced most of the wood.
>>> Never actually saw the body or chassis so I'm only going on what he
>>> told me, its possible his description was wrong.
>>>>
>>>>> The brakes are simple, just don't work very well.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with the front brakes at least is that the rods pull on
>>>> a lever on the bottom of the drums. The front axle is flimsy and
>>>> under braking twists moving the bottom of the drum back and self
>>>> unservoing the brakes. The standard fix was to convert to cable
>>>> actuation with the cable going over the top of the axle curving
>>>> around the front and down to the actuation lever.
>>>>
>>>> In the hostel where I lived for 5 years as an apprentice there must
>>>> have been at least half a dozen of the things at any given time.
>>>> They usually ended up tipped on their side (they didn't corner well)
>>>> and being stripped for spares for the next one, they were as cheap
>>>> as chips.
>>>
>>> Sounds about right:-)
>>> I remember my father telling me about tipping his mates Austin 7 over
>>> to fix something underneath.
>>> I mostly worked on the engine which I had at my place, had to put
>>> some of it together, it had a weird distributor drive, weird in that
>>> it was driven off the back of the generator which was gear driven off
>>> the front of the engine so it took a while to work out the timing.
>>> I made a wooden frame to mount the engine and when I tried to start
>>> it I found that it would only start and run for a short time but only
>>> if the throttle was wide open.
>>> I found that the main jet was missing from the carby, BIL took the
>>> engine back and was going to try and find a main jet but I've never
>>> seen it since, AFAIK he hasn't done anything with it, its stored
>>> somewhere in bits.
>>> I think he keeps it because it was a project he worked on in his
>>> teens with his long dead dad.
>>
>> There were two types of engine, those what had a 2 bearing crank, and
>> those with 3 bearings. If tuning one for racing (amazingly many did)
>> the 2 bearing was preferred as there was so much crankshaft whip that
>> it could break the centre bearing out of the crankcase. With the 2
>> bearing one the centre pistons could actually hit the head if revved
>> too high. Not too much of a disaster on a side-valve though.
>
> Not 100% sure but I think the one I worked on only had 2 main bearings,
> I remember thinking that it was a very weak engine.
>>
>> Two of my school friends had them, one was not much of a mechanic, he
>> had a jar of nuts and bolts left over from each time he stripped
>> something, he went on to be a draughtsman for Fisher and Pykel! He
>> carried a brick to stick under a wheel when parking because the
>> handbrake didn't work, and was always careful to park with the canvas
>> patches on the tyres facing down. The other friend had a "Boat tailed
>> chummy" probably worth a but these days, the "Chummy" bit meant that
>> it was a 2 seat convertible, and, in a bit of 1930s streamlining, the
>> boot was shaped like the bow of a boat.
>
> Sounds exactly like the BIL's or that's how he described it.
>
>  Startlingly, after going out on a
>> trip we found that 3 of the 4 lugs that fastened the steering box the
>> the (metal) chassis were cracked right through.
>>
> Yipes, sometimes I wonder how people lived to old age after spending a
> lot of time in those old cars, most likely they survived because they
> had to learn to be better drivers because the cars were so bad.
>
The saving grace was that, in general, the speed was pretty low. I am
still amazed though that over 5 years, given a group of 200 guys aged
between 17 and 22, owning, at one time, 100 motorbikes nobody killed
themselves. There were a few broken bones but nothing serious.

On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:

>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>
>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>  Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)

He's a fucking *idiot*.

Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my distributor.
He's making a massive deal out of something that has nothing whatsoever
to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old screaming about only he
knows how to do it properly and he can do it so much better, and "N'yer
n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than you so there".

What an insecure fucking *softcock* :)

He's also completely delusional if he thinks there is *anyone* around
here more gullible than Felix. You know, his new best buddy who thinks
he can pick the difference in picture quality between video run over
Monster Cables versus any other compliant HDMI cable, but apparently
*can't* pick the difference between CGI generated video and reality :)

You couldn't find bigger fucking *twats* than these stupid cunts if you
put want adds in every daily paper in the country.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 2/11/21 7:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:

>>   Startlingly, after going out on a
>>> trip we found that 3 of the 4 lugs that fastened the steering box the
>>> the (metal) chassis were cracked right through.
>>>
>> Yipes, sometimes I wonder how people lived to old age after spending a
>> lot of time in those old cars, most likely they survived because they
>> had to learn to be better drivers because the cars were so bad.
>>
> The saving grace was that, in general, the speed was pretty low.

That helps.
A lot less traffic also helps.

I am
> still amazed though that over 5 years, given a group of 200 guys aged
> between 17 and 22, owning, at one time, 100 motorbikes nobody killed
> themselves. There were a few broken bones but nothing serious.

Amazing.

--
Daryl

On 2/11/2021 7:11 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 2/11/2021 5:56 pm, Clocky wrote:

>>> Knowing nothing about MSD distributors other than those 3 pictures,
>>> you may well be right.
>>>
>>
>> It a common fault. The Zener is used to regulate the voltage and when
>> it fails the rest follows as seen here.
>>
>> I expect Google to be pretty sluggish with the fraud busy Googling
>> what a Zener diode looks like. Maybe I should send him a few, then
>> he'll know :-)
>
> It's not what I'd expect to cause this problem, a failed zener would be
> very unlikely to cause the capacitor to explode.

Don't let reality get in the way of his fantasy Keith. He thinks he's
all over this, despite him having zero personal experience with the
product :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>
>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>>
>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>   Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>
> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>
> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my distributor.
> He's making a massive deal out of something that has nothing whatsoever
> to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old screaming about only he
> knows how to do it properly and he can do it so much better, and "N'yer
> n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than you so there".

Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
like that easily.
If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us know
anything about electronics simply because its a completely different
trade, its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.
A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't have to
know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.

--
Daryl

On 2/11/2021 7:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>
>>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>>>
>>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>   Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
>>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>>
>> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>>
>> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my
>> distributor. He's making a massive deal out of something that has
>> nothing whatsoever to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old
>> screaming about only he knows how to do it properly and he can do it
>> so much better, and "N'yer n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than
>> you so there".
>
> Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
> mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
> like that easily.

He's off his fucking rocker.

> If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us know
> anything about electronics simply because its a completely different
> trade,

It is indeed, but then he fancies himself as an "electronics technician"
because he did a short course. Of course, this is the moron who *also*
thinks that vehicle painting and truck and trailer body building are
part of the year 9 school curriculum :)

> its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.

Or fly a Jumbo jet, which is just as relevant.

The bloke is genuinely delusional....

> A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't have to
> know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.

Absolutely.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 2/11/2021 4:11 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 2/11/2021 5:56 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 2/11/2021 2:24 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 1/11/2021 11:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 1/11/2021 12:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 31/10/2021 5:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 31/10/2021 11:55 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 30/10/2021 9:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OT: Car post
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As most of you are aware I own a 1956 Ford F-100. It's a cool
>>>>>>>> old thing and I love it to death.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was put together by a bloke who really had no idea what he
>>>>>>>> was doing, and I've been chasing problems with it ever since I
>>>>>>>> bought it last year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's coming good, and I've got most stuff sorted on it, but one
>>>>>>>> problem thing it's had since the day I got the thing is an
>>>>>>>> intermittent ignition stumble, and because it's been *very*
>>>>>>>> random it's been terribly hard to pinpoint.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Until yesterday :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The truck has it's original 272 cube Y Block V8 that was
>>>>>>>> reconditioned not long before I bought the thing, and is
>>>>>>>> standard apart from having an alloy 4 barrel manifold, an
>>>>>>>> Edelbrock 1405 carb, a nice set of ceramic coated headers and an
>>>>>>>> MSD "ready to run" distributor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of these:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.vpw.com.au/parts/MSD-8383
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These ready to run things are a quick and easy convert to
>>>>>>>> electronic ignition for older shitheaps like this, as they're
>>>>>>>> all fully self contained with a single pole reluctor trigger and
>>>>>>>> an ignition module mounted under the base plate. All they need
>>>>>>>> is a power feed from the coil and they're good to go. They also
>>>>>>>> have a couple of cool features such as a built in rev limiter
>>>>>>>> which is programmed by momentarily earthing the tach signal wire
>>>>>>>> while the engine is running, and their best feature in my
>>>>>>>> opinion is that the mechanical advance mechanism is *above* the
>>>>>>>> base plate under the rotor which makes changing the advance
>>>>>>>> curve a five minute job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the downside, I found out not so long ago that MSD gear is
>>>>>>>> now made in China, and that gave me cause to be concerned as
>>>>>>>> Chinese automotive electrical components don't have a stellar
>>>>>>>> reputation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, that theory was confirmed yesterday morning when I was
>>>>>>>> coming back home from a trip into town when the thing suddenly
>>>>>>>> started carrying on like crazy and would refuse to run for more
>>>>>>>> than a couple of seconds. Long story short after much pushing,
>>>>>>>> swearing and short stop start driving I managed to get it home
>>>>>>>> and start my diagnosis.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Checked everything. Coil, wiring, relays, temperature, the lot.
>>>>>>>> Nothing seemed to be out of order. Last thing left to do was
>>>>>>>> pull the distributor and have a look at it, but given that it
>>>>>>>> was fitted brand new and has only *just* clocked 2000 miles I
>>>>>>>> wasn't expecting it to be where the problem lay.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Murphy's first law of automotive diagnosis: Assume nothing :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The distributor shaft needs to be removed to remove the base
>>>>>>>> plate and get to the ignition module. As I was peering under the
>>>>>>>> module when lifting it as far as the wiring harness would allow,
>>>>>>>> I saw this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ7
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Uh-oh :) I don't think that should be there :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The wiring harness sheath had melted itself together, so after
>>>>>>>> cutting if off and removing the base plate, the ignition module
>>>>>>>> looked like this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQ9
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fucking nasty. Massive overheat by the looks, but this thing was
>>>>>>>> wired *exactly* as MSD's instruction book said it needed to be.
>>>>>>>> The melted brown wire was actually jammed in between the
>>>>>>>> capacitor and the remaining resistor where it met up with the
>>>>>>>> other three wires and was fed out through the sheath in the
>>>>>>>> lower part of the housing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And on the other side, we had this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4MPQB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just fuck. Massive fail.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said, this is a new distributor that the previous owner
>>>>>>>> paid over a thousand bucks for, it's done just over 2000 miles
>>>>>>>> and it has been installed *precisely* as instructed buy the
>>>>>>>> company who made it. Pretty piss fucking poor if you ask me, and
>>>>>>>> a *perfect* example of how paying high prices for "brand names"
>>>>>>>> isn't all that great an idea these days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The solution is to buy a new replacement ignition module which
>>>>>>>> comes as a "kit" which includes the module itself, the base
>>>>>>>> plate, the advance plate and the magnetic pick up. But given
>>>>>>>> that they're 300 bucks Australian and and are 6 weeks away in
>>>>>>>> the US, I'm not all that keen to wait that long let alone to pay
>>>>>>>> that kind of money only to have the exact same thing that fucked
>>>>>>>> up in the first place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So we move to plan B, which is to try using a remote ignition
>>>>>>>> module.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that the triggering mechanism in the distributor is a
>>>>>>>> basic single pole reluctor it should work with *any* generic
>>>>>>>> module like a Bosch 021 or a GM HEI, and given that I have both
>>>>>>>> of those here and nothing else to lose my plan is to gut the
>>>>>>>> distributor and just leave the reluctor and pickup in place and
>>>>>>>> feed those into a 4 pin HEI module which I can mount in an
>>>>>>>> enclosure on the firewall. I can't see why it wouldn't work, and
>>>>>>>> I'll know by this time tomorrow if it does. If it does it will
>>>>>>>> be a good cheap home brew fix that will hopefully help other MSD
>>>>>>>> owners avoid a massive repair bill.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the mean time, if anyone's thinking of purchasing automotive
>>>>>>>> ignition products any time soon my recommendation would be to
>>>>>>>> stay the *fuck* away from anything offered by MSD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bit of a disaster! We have a destroyed MOSFET, an exploded
>>>>>>> capacitor, a burnt wire and a resistor that has got so hot that
>>>>>>> it has melted its solder connections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The capacitor that has exploded is interesting, without a circuit
>>>>>>> I'd have to guess that it performs the same function as the
>>>>>>> condensor (an ancient name for a capacitor) in a Kettering
>>>>>>> ignition system i.e. absorbing the back EMF from the primary of
>>>>>>> the coil when the points open or in this case when the MOSFET
>>>>>>> switches off. If that were the case then the MOSFET would get the
>>>>>>> whole back EMF and self destruct. The resistor that fell out
>>>>>>> could possibly be a ballast resistor, if the MOSFET failed short
>>>>>>> circuit then 12v would be constantly across the coil primary and
>>>>>>> the resistor in series and the resistor would be dissipating
>>>>>>> rather more power than it was designed for (remember the days
>>>>>>> when it was recommended not to leave the ignition on for long
>>>>>>> periods with the engine stopped to avoid overheating the ballast
>>>>>>> resistor). The wire is only burned in on spot, probably because
>>>>>>> it was in contact with the resistor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The upshot is that my guess is that the capacitor was underrated
>>>>>>> and its demise lead to all of this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are a few components that need to be checked if a repair is
>>>>>> attempted. Since he reported erratic ignition stumble prior to
>>>>>> failure I know *exactly* where I would start. The repair is
>>>>>> trivial, anyone with basic electronics knowledge and soldering
>>>>>> skill can fix it for a few dollars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously the MOSFET and capacitor would need to be replaced, the
>>>>> capacitor with a higher working voltage item. R23 could probably
>>>>> just be soldered back in (after checking it) and the orange wire
>>>>> replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then work from there, possibly being suspicious of the coil.
>>>>
>>>> A reasonable assumption however a Zener diode is prone to failure on
>>>> certain MSD distributors the symptom of which might be commonly
>>>> noted as an "erratic ignition stumble" prior to MOSFET failure. The
>>>> Zener diode has an important (and fairly typical, I'm sure you can
>>>> work out) role in this design and also must be replaced. The issue
>>>> is not of cheapness of components or "China" but of lousy design by
>>>> MSD.
>>>
>>> Knowing nothing about MSD distributors other than those 3 pictures,
>>> you may well be right.
>>>
>>
>> It a common fault. The Zener is used to regulate the voltage and when
>> it fails the rest follows as seen here.
>>
>> I expect Google to be pretty sluggish with the fraud busy Googling
>> what a Zener diode looks like. Maybe I should send him a few, then
>> he'll know :-)
>
> It's not what I'd expect to cause this problem, a failed zener would be
> very unlikely to cause the capacitor to explode.

On 2/11/21 7:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>
>>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>>>
>>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>   Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
>>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>>
>> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>>
>> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my
>> distributor. He's making a massive deal out of something that has
>> nothing whatsoever to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old
>> screaming about only he knows how to do it properly and he can do it
>> so much better, and "N'yer n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than
>> you so there".
>
> Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
> mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
> like that easily.

Most mechanics do a fair bit of auto electrical studies during their
apprenticeship. I did advanced auto electrical post trade in the early
80s. I also studied automotive electronics as a post trade course.
Qualified mechanics, at least those with a clue, know that their is a
need to continually update their skills Did you know, for instance, that
eighty percent (80%) and more of faults in cars that require diagnosis
relate directly to electrical or electronic components. You would have
done AC in your apprenticeship in the 70s. Guess what - that is all
obsolete now and it has been since around the year 2000 - and it is now
a licenced specialisation in the automotive industry. You don't have the
training and access to the approved recovery stations, best you keep
your sticky little fingers away. I've done auto trans training during my
apprenticeship and, later, the full advanced auto trans course. Were I
still in the trade, I would *need* to do that complete course again
since auto trans have changed *dramatically*. On step autos, the
mechanical side, not a lot different. On the hydraulic side - totally
different. Current trans control systems use computer controlled
solenoid valves for flow and pressure control - simpler inside the trans
but way more complex (and flexible) outside the trans. A world apart
from the auto trans I cut my teeth on. Then you have the CVTs, the DSGs
and all the other variations. Auto trans is now a *specialised trade*.
Go count the cars out there with a carburettor. It'll be a short count.
My first exposure to fuel injection training was in, IIRC, 1973. That
course focused on the Bosch K Jetronic system, a continuous *mechanical*
system. Some 8 years later, in 1981, I did a course on the L Jetronic
system. In the 90s I did a further course on the much more advanced
Bosch systems. Each time I did another course, it was far removed in
scope and content from the one that preceded it. Now new cars are going
direct injection. Back in ~2010 I purchased this book;
Gasoline Engine with Direct Injection
Processes, Systems, Development, Potential
Richard Van Basshuysen
Direct Petrol Injection wasn't new in 2010, some cars had it back in the
90s. Here it is, 2020, and heaps of cars now have it and it brings with
it a much higher level of control complexity and a raft of *new*
problems to diagnose. Are you the full bottle on it Daryl?

> If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us know
> anything about electronics simply because its a completely different

If *YOU* know nothing about electronics, then that says a lot about you
and fully explains why you felt a pressing need to leave the trade and
explore your upper level, your *ceiling*, of competence - as a cleaner.

> trade, its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.

Um, no it is not! *House wiring* is a completely different trade and,
what's more, it is a *licenced* trade. Try not to compare apples with
oranges, you only show how stupid you are. Looked under the bonnet of
your cars lately? HEAPS of electronics under there. In fact, your car
has heaps of electronics from stem to stern and you don't see a need to
invest some time and effort in studying automotive electronics?
Seriously? You do realise, don't you, that in those very electronics
bits and pieces and their associated wiring lie most of your future
diagnosis problems. In workshops there are typically two kinds of
mechanics - those who can *diagnose AND fix* problems - and those who
get TOLD what parts to change. No points for guessing which category you
fit into.
FWIW, my first foray into *automotive electronics tinkering* was this;
http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/ACC_powersupply/Dick_Smith_K-3301_user.pdf
I built a few of these Daryl, learnt how they worked, installed them,
modified them - learnt a lot. Lucky I had an *interest* in electronics,
eh? Dovetailed it nicely into my trade too. Was working on a breakerless
add-on for the units when life became too busy and distracted me. Had an
unassembled kit hanging around here for years afterwards. Wonder what
happened to that???

> A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't have to
> know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.

BULLSHIT!!
If you don't understand how something works, you cannot seriously expect
to have a snowflake's chance in hell of efficiently and effectively
diagnosing a problem in it. And I'm not talking about parts
*substitution* as a method of diagnosis. Had a look at a modern car
lately? Lots and lots of electronics in them. If you have no idea how
the *systems* operate and the role each component plays in that
operation, even just at *BLOCK LEVEL*, then how the hell do you expect
to be able to continue working in the trade? Ooops, forgot, you left the
trade very early on, and quite rightly so. You did that because, once
you completed your apprenticeship, you decided to rest on your laurels
and discontinue the process of lifelong learning. IOW, you allowed
yourself to slip into obsolescence and *irrelevance*. You are living
proof that if you stand still the world will pass you by! Well done you!

By mid way through my apprenticeship I realised that my *training*
wasn't going to cease once I completed my apprenticeship. I already had
a handle on the concept of lifelong learning - even if I didn't have a
name for it. Whenever I had the opportunity, I rocked on down to the
local tech college and signed up to *any relevant course* they had
going. Launceston Tech, Hobart Tech, Burnie Tech, saw the inside of them
all. Back to back courses, studying 2 courses at the same time, done it
all. Even when I was working in areas where there was no access to a
tech college, such as mining towns, I swotted the books, whatever books
I could get hold of, even if it was only a workshop manual for something
I was working on. It was a *habit* that has never left me. When I first
started at tech teachers college in 1981, I learnt that this habit I had
developed actually had a name - lifelong learning. Did they ever hammer
it into us! They foreshadowed the changes about to hit the motor trade
long before the first cars had the technology installed. The need for
continual skills updating was something we needed to instil in our
students. 80% of what you know now will be obsolete in 30 years, they
said. Don't update the skills and you'll be out of the trade, they said!
They were dead right. You, Daryl, are the epitome of what we were being
warned about way back 40 years ago. Uncannily prescient, wouldn't you say?

But you were Ok Daryl, you jumped ship at just the right time and moved
into an industry that suited your intellect to a T! The mop and bucket
doesn't seem to have been hit much by new technology. I can rock on down
to Bunnings and buy a mop and bucket that looks just like the gal ones
my mother used to own over 60 years ago. If I feel really daring, I can
buy the *new & improved* model, you know the one, looks the same but
made of *plastic*. Oh, the technology!!!! Nice bright yellow colour too,
easier to see and less likely to be tripped over.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 19:53:37 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 2/11/2021 7:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>>>>
>>>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>>   Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
>>>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>>>
>>> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>>>
>>> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my
>>> distributor. He's making a massive deal out of something that has
>>> nothing whatsoever to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old
>>> screaming about only he knows how to do it properly and he can do it
>>> so much better, and "N'yer n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than
>>> you so there".
>>
>> Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
>> mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
>> like that easily.
>
> He's off his fucking rocker.
>
>> If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us know
>> anything about electronics simply because its a completely different
>> trade,
>
> It is indeed, but then he fancies himself as an "electronics technician"
> because he did a short course. Of course, this is the moron who *also*
> thinks that vehicle painting and truck and trailer body building are
> part of the year 9 school curriculum :)
>
>> its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.
>
> Or fly a Jumbo jet, which is just as relevant.
>
> The bloke is genuinely delusional....
>
>> A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't have to
>> know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.
>
> Absolutely.

That so boys.

It appears odd though that that's the case. So a 'mechanic' doesn't lose
any cred by knowing nothing about electronics, but it drives you clods into
an attack frenzy if one doesn't know the exact construction of laminated
glass?

"Windscreen boy has no fucking idea" 08Oct21
"That's why people like Windscreen boy are as clueless as they are". 9Oct21

Well done lads!

alvey

--
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On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 19:45:14 +1100, Noddy wrote:

>
> Don't let reality get in the way of his fantasy Keith. He thinks he's
> all over this, despite him having zero personal experience with the
> product :)

Great work Fraudster! Another solid gold keeper!

alvey
"What part of the burden of proof lying with the one who makes the claim
do you not understand?" Fraudster, 03May18

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On 3/11/2021 4:33 am, alvey wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 19:53:37 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2021 7:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>>>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>>   Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
>>>>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>>>>
>>>> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>>>>
>>>> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my
>>>> distributor. He's making a massive deal out of something that has
>>>> nothing whatsoever to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old
>>>> screaming about only he knows how to do it properly and he can do it
>>>> so much better, and "N'yer n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than
>>>> you so there".
>>>
>>> Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
>>> mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
>>> like that easily.
>>
>> He's off his fucking rocker.
>>
>>> If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us know
>>> anything about electronics simply because its a completely different
>>> trade,
>>
>> It is indeed, but then he fancies himself as an "electronics technician"
>> because he did a short course. Of course, this is the moron who *also*
>> thinks that vehicle painting and truck and trailer body building are
>> part of the year 9 school curriculum :)
>>
>>> its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.
>>
>> Or fly a Jumbo jet, which is just as relevant.
>>
>> The bloke is genuinely delusional....
>>
>>> A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't have to
>>> know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.
>>
>> Absolutely.
>
> That so boys.
>
> It appears odd though that that's the case. So a 'mechanic' doesn't lose
> any cred by knowing nothing about electronics, but it drives you clods into
> an attack frenzy if one doesn't know the exact construction of laminated
> glass?
>
> "Windscreen boy has no fucking idea" 08Oct21
> "That's why people like Windscreen boy are as clueless as they are". 9Oct21
>
> Well done lads!
>
>
>

Meh, who cares what they say. I'm not only a qualified mechanic but
*also* a qualified auto sparky which is pretty much what I've been doing
the last 5 years. I knew what both of these clowns combined know today
about electronics by the time I was 8 years old.

But that is beside the point... automotive electrical is very much a
component of the automotive mechanical trade, he would know that had he
ever completed an apprenticeship.

It's funny watching a failed dunny cleaner and his know-nuffin' mate
hate rage on someone who has walked the walk though :-)

On 2/11/2021 4:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>
>>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as he is.
>>>>
>>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for certain.
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>   Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know nothing
>>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>>
>> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>>
>> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my
>> distributor. He's making a massive deal out of something that has
>> nothing whatsoever to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old
>> screaming about only he knows how to do it properly and he can do it
>> so much better, and "N'yer n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better than
>> you so there".
>
> Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
> mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
> like that easily.
> If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us know
> anything about electronics simply because its a completely different
> trade

No it isn't you fucking numpty. Auto-electrics is very much part of the
auto electrical trade and in fact there is quite some overlap between
them up to a point.

, its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.

Not at all in fact. What an absurd thing to say.

> A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't have to
> know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.
>
>
>

No wonder you went on the cleaning dunnies... and managed to fuck that
up as well. Why is it that Team NoddyLiar has attracted all the
dumbarses? Every single one of you isn't qualified, has no idea and is
profoundly stupid.

What a result.

On 3/11/2021 4:44 am, alvey wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 19:45:14 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't let reality get in the way of his fantasy Keith. He thinks he's
>> all over this, despite him having zero personal experience with the
>> product :)
>
> Great work Fraudster! Another solid gold keeper!
>
>

Yeah, I know these details from zero experience... what an idiot.

>
> alvey
> "What part of the burden of proof lying with the one who makes the claim
> do you not understand?" Fraudster, 03May18
>
>

Remember this is the bloke who made a big song and dance about his wet
sand blasting project which turned out to be a 1:1 copy of a design on
youtube which he couldn't get working.

Pretentious nobody that he is.

On 3/11/2021 12:33 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 3/11/2021 4:44 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 19:45:14 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Don't let reality get in the way of his fantasy Keith. He thinks he's
>>> all over this, despite him having zero personal experience with the
>>> product :)
>>
>> Great work Fraudster! Another solid gold keeper!
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, I know these details from zero experience... what an idiot.
>
>>
>> alvey
>> "What part of the burden of proof lying with the one who makes the claim
>> do you not understand?" Fraudster, 03May18
>>
>>
>
>
> Remember this is the bloke who made a big song and dance about his wet
> sand blasting project which turned out to be a 1:1 copy of a design on
> youtube which he couldn't get working.
>
> Pretentious nobody that he is.

LOL

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 11/3/2021 12:15 PM, Clocky wrote:
> On 3/11/2021 4:33 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 19:53:37 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2021 7:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 2/11/21 7:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 2/11/2021 2:38 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/2/2021 1:33 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, grown-ups aren't as naive as the Dazzler. I mean, he's a nice
>>>>>>> bloke and all but I've never come across anyone as gullible as
>>>>>>> he is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NoddyLiar sure collects the misfits and dimwitted, that's for
>>>>>>> certain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Why then, does he (and others) think that *you* are a know
>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>> twonk?. (putting it nicely. <G>)
>>>>>
>>>>> He's a fucking *idiot*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the noise he's making about the repair I did on my
>>>>> distributor. He's making a massive deal out of something that has
>>>>> nothing whatsoever to do with him and carrying on like a 4 year old
>>>>> screaming about only he knows how to do it properly and he can do it
>>>>> so much better, and "N'yer n'yer n'yer because I'm so much better
>>>>> than
>>>>> you so there".
>>>>
>>>> Its actually very bizzare, carrying on implying that "qualified"
>>>> mechanics would know all about electronics so they could fix something
>>>> like that easily.
>>>
>>> He's off his fucking rocker.
>>>
>>>> If he actually knew any mechanics he would know that very few of us
>>>> know
>>>> anything about electronics simply because its a completely different
>>>> trade,
>>>
>>> It is indeed, but then he fancies himself as an "electronics
>>> technician"
>>> because he did a short course. Of course, this is the moron who *also*
>>> thinks that vehicle painting and truck and trailer body building are
>>> part of the year 9 school curriculum :)
>>>
>>>> its a bit like saying a mechanic should know how to rewire a house.
>>>
>>> Or fly a Jumbo jet, which is just as relevant.
>>>
>>> The bloke is genuinely delusional....
>>>
>>>> A mechanics needs to know how to diagnose a fault but they don't
>>>> have to
>>>> know how to repair electronic circuits or even know how they work.
>>>
>>> Absolutely.
>>
>> That so boys.
>>
>> It appears odd though that that's the case. So a 'mechanic' doesn't lose
>> any cred by knowing nothing about electronics, but it drives you
>> clods into
>> an attack frenzy if one doesn't know the exact construction of laminated
>> glass?
>>
>> "Windscreen boy has no fucking idea" 08Oct21
>> "That's why people like Windscreen boy are as clueless as they are".
>> 9Oct21
>>
>> Well done lads!
>>
>>
>>
>
> Meh, who cares what they say.

```````````````````````

 You, obviously!.

> I'm not only a qualified mechanic but *also* a qualified auto sparky
> which is pretty much what I've been doing the last 5 years. I knew
> what both of these clowns combined know today about electronics by the
> time I was 8 years old.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 UH-HUH....Inferiority writ large there.. W O'B.

>
> But that is beside the point... automotive electrical is very much a
> component of the automotive mechanical trade, he would know that had
> he ever completed an apprenticeship.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Very much?, not so, Only  the basics. (As with windscreens.)

>
> It's funny watching a failed dunny cleaner and his know-nuffin' mate
> hate rage on someone who has walked the walk though :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really?, and who would that be?.

>
>

--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea. Massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." — Gene
Spafford, 1992