On 19/09/2021 12:32, Ace wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 11:36:44 +0100, Bruce Horrocks
> <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18/09/2021 13:59, Ace wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:38:18 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>>>> games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>>>> painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
>>>> Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
>>>> eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
>>>> only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
>>>> home computers and more than three TV channels.
>>>
>>> Jeezus, that's just... sad.
>>
>> What, a hobby that requires patience, practice and skill, and encourages
>> a study of history?
>
> Nothing wrong with playing with toy soldiers. But ultimately it's
> still just playing with toy soldiers however much time you devote to
> accurate recreations of uniforms and badges.
>
>
Blimey if a lad cannot paint model figures I don't know what you're
expecting. This was the 1970s. I also take exception to "just playing",
we were "playing" war games, 20 sided dice, strange mathematical
probability tables etc.

On 9/20/2021 10:30 AM, Tim wrote:
>

> we were "playing" war games,

It's a shame peace games have never become a thing.

My geezer buddies had a rather strange conversation this morning. We're
all afflicted with old age maladies and trying to figure out good ways
to die. Assisted suicide is legal in some places, but it's not easy.
Besides, with climate change and overpopulation, more and more people
should die, but how? (1) One guy suggested war, but rather than
conscripting the young, draft the elderly. But then you're dealing with
people with tremors and whose eyesight is deteriorating, so seeing and
hitting your target is damn near impossible. Besides, war can't be very
green, ecologically.

(1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
smoking silos hidden in the back country.)

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)

I'm confident that if the UK ever legalised euthanasia the median
reduction in life expectancy would be really quite short - something in
the 2 - 4 week range.

So no need for massive incinerators - they'll be no sudden rush.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
>> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
>> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
>
> I'm confident that if the UK ever legalised euthanasia the median
> reduction in life expectancy would be really quite short - something in
> the 2 - 4 week range.
>
> So no need for massive incinerators - they'll be no sudden rush.

I'm not sure it was intended to be voluntary....

On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
>
> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)

Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
certainly not eco-friendly.

I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

Eddie wrote:
> On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
>> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
>> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
>
> Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> certainly not eco-friendly.
>
> I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...

<CharltonHeston>
Soylent Green is people !
</CharltonHeston>

Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote in
news:iqtf7qFiijlU1@mid.individual.net:

> On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
>>
>> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators
>> and smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
>
> Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> certainly not eco-friendly.
>
> I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...
>

anaerobic digestion - the methane can be used to create electricity,
hydrogen, CO2, fertiliser or hydrocarbons.

The microbes can be genetically programmed to make medications or Quorn
like foodstuffs

On 21/09/2021 09:42, wessie wrote:
> anaerobic digestion - the methane can be used to create electricity,
> hydrogen, CO2, fertiliser or hydrocarbons.

Yes but the methanogenic bacteria only like the volatile solids so the
rest can be de watered and turned to biochar, thus eliminating some
carbon from the atmosphere for a few hundred years.

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 8:17:16 AM UTC+1, Eddie wrote:
> On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
> >
> > (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
> > smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
> Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> certainly not eco-friendly.
>
> I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...
>

A few decent rubs and marinades, and boom, that's the upcoming meat shortage sorted.....

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 11:57:38 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>(1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
>smoking silos hidden in the back country.)

What, the FEMA death camps hidden beneath every Walmart?
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK;GL1800D
Previously ...
CB1300SA8;GL1800A6;GL1500SEV;CBR1100XXX;
CBR1000FL;CBX1000Z;GPz750R;Z750E1;Z650C2;
KH500A8;KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.

Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
> On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
>>
>> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
>> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
>
> Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> certainly not eco-friendly.
>
> I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...

Paging Brownz.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 2:57:41 PM UTC-4, Turby wrote:

> My geezer buddies had a rather strange conversation this morning. We're
> all afflicted with old age maladies and trying to figure out good ways
> to die. Assisted suicide is legal in some places, but it's not easy.
> Besides, with climate change and overpopulation, more and more people
> should die, but how? (1) One guy suggested war, but rather than
> conscripting the young, draft the elderly. But then you're dealing with
> people with tremors and whose eyesight is deteriorating, so seeing and
> hitting your target is damn near impossible. Besides, war can't be very
> green, ecologically.

Good convo. Wish I had your daily coffee chat. There are a group of old boys who seem to gather outside a local independent coffee shop near me. I've had a couple of "nice car" comments when I've been down there in one of the classics. Maybe I should cultivate that. Not sure I can commit to every day, though.

Anyway, I too, think about good ways to die - both generally, and in the case of an irreversible terminal disease. Call me uncreative, but I think I'd really like a bullet in the back of the head by surprise. Hopefully not for a few decades, in my case.

> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)

Dramatic, and slightly "final solution" in nature.

Andy Burns wrote:

> > > So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
> > > humane?
> >
> > If they really do that, then probably not.
>
> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
> shortage due to CO2 shortage

I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the killing.

where's TOG when you need him...

--
Simon

"sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:iqu5quFmq2aU1
@mid.individual.net:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> > > So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
>> > > humane?
>> >
>> > If they really do that, then probably not.
>>
>> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
>> shortage due to CO2 shortage
>
> I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the killing.
>

CO2 is used in both processes

some slaughter houses use electricity to render the pig or bird unconscious
before its throat is slit

others use CO2. Pigs are herded into something like a paternoster lift and
lowered into a chamber with high levels of CO2 where they pass out

CO2 is not used for cattle or sheep.

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:01:15 PM UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
> Eddie <ed...@deguello.org> wrote:
> > On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
> >>
> >> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
> >> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
> >
> > Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> > certainly not eco-friendly.
> >
> > I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...
> Paging Brownz.
>

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply a couple of posts up..... :-P

On 21/09/2021 15:06, wessie wrote:
> "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:iqu5quFmq2aU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>>>> So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
>>>>> humane?
>>>>
>>>> If they really do that, then probably not.
>>>
>>> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
>>> shortage due to CO2 shortage
>>
>> I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the killing.
>>
>
> CO2 is used in both processes
>
> some slaughter houses use electricity to render the pig or bird unconscious
> before its throat is slit
>
> others use CO2. Pigs are herded into something like a paternoster lift and
> lowered into a chamber with high levels of CO2 where they pass out
>
> CO2 is not used for cattle or sheep.
>
Why not?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

Dave Brown <browniebrownz@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:01:15 PM UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
>> Eddie <ed...@deguello.org> wrote:
>> > On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
>> >>
>> >> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
>> >> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
>> >
>> > Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
>> > certainly not eco-friendly.
>> >
>> > I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...
>> Paging Brownz.
>>
>
> I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply a couple of posts up..... :-P

Yes, I saw after I posted, that you had posted further down in the
thread (although earlier in time).

Great minds, etc.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 4:48:29 PM UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:01:15 PM UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
> >> Eddie <ed...@deguello.org> wrote:
> >> > On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive incinerators and
> >> >> smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
> >> >
> >> > Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> >> > certainly not eco-friendly.
> >> >
> >> > I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...
> >> Paging Brownz.
> >>
> >
> > I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply a couple of posts up..... :-P
> Yes, I saw after I posted, that you had posted further down in the
> thread (although earlier in time).
>
> Great minds, etc.

Troo dat.

I was thinking that I bet the Meater doesn't have a guided cook for that particular cut.

When I reviewed it I set up a custom cook in one of the screen shots for a human thigh - only a couple of people pointed it out.

https://www.brownz.org/review-apption-labs-meater-block/

Obviously not as gross as I assumed - cannibal holocaust anyone ? ;-)

YTC#1 <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote in
news:sictbr$6rp$1@dont-email.me:

> On 21/09/2021 15:06, wessie wrote:
>> "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:iqu5quFmq2aU1
>> @mid.individual.net:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
>>>>>> humane?
>>>>>
>>>>> If they really do that, then probably not.
>>>>
>>>> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
>>>> shortage due to CO2 shortage
>>>
>>> I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the
>>> killing.
>>>
>>
>> CO2 is used in both processes
>>
>> some slaughter houses use electricity to render the pig or bird
>> unconscious before its throat is slit
>>
>> others use CO2. Pigs are herded into something like a paternoster
>> lift and lowered into a chamber with high levels of CO2 where they
>> pass out
>>
>> CO2 is not used for cattle or sheep.
>>
> Why not?
>
>

cattle & sheep are usually stunned with a captive bolt into the head
prior to cutting their throats

cattle & sheep are used to being herded into single animal width
channels for routine health checks, shearing & sorting so they get less
stressed in the abbatoir, making this method quick.

pigs get stressed a lot easier so are kept together as a group before
being gassed - the publicity will say this is to make the process more
humane. The reality is that stress hormones can make pork taste awful
which reduces the value of the meat.

Eddie wrote:

> On 20/09/2021 19:57, Turby wrote:
> >
> > (1. The consensus seemed to be euthanasia, with massive
> > incinerators and smoking silos hidden in the back country.)
>
> Very wasteful, when there's already a shortage of resources, and
> certainly not eco-friendly.
>
> I mean, all that protein, just going up in smoke ...

Seen on FB:

There's a point in the creamtion process when the meat is cooked *just*
perfectly.

--
Chris

wessie wrote:

> to make ammonium nitrate you need
> a source of ammonia. This is made via the Haber Process
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#Sources_of_hydrogen which needs
> a source of hydrogen. Methane has 4 hydrogen atoms which are harvested via
> steam reforming. This leaves a spare carbon atom which is oxydised to make
> the CO2 by product.

Same problems, different year ...

<https://www.fdf.org.uk/globalassets/resources/publications/falling-flat-lessons-from-the-2018-uk-co2-shortage.pdf>

sweller wrote:

>>>> So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
>>>> humane?
>>>
>>> If they really do that, then probably not.
>>
>> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
>> shortage due to CO2 shortage
>
> I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the killing.

I thought meat tended to be vacuum packed? I dunno I don't eat the stuff, but
not for trendy veggie/vegan reasons. Part-baked bread, ready meals and salads
tend to be packed in an inert/protective atmosphere ...

On 21/09/2021 22:17, CT wrote:
>
> Seen on FB:
>
> There's a point in the creamtion process when the meat is cooked *just*
> perfectly.

LOL!

But: not necessarily, Lord Copper

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 21/09/2021 17:21, wessie wrote:
> YTC#1 <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote in
> news:sictbr$6rp$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 21/09/2021 15:06, wessie wrote:
>>> "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:iqu5quFmq2aU1
>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>
>>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
>>>>>>> humane?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If they really do that, then probably not.
>>>>>
>>>>> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
>>>>> shortage due to CO2 shortage
>>>>
>>>> I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the
>>>> killing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> CO2 is used in both processes
>>>
>>> some slaughter houses use electricity to render the pig or bird
>>> unconscious before its throat is slit
>>>
>>> others use CO2. Pigs are herded into something like a paternoster
>>> lift and lowered into a chamber with high levels of CO2 where they
>>> pass out
>>>
>>> CO2 is not used for cattle or sheep.
>>>
>> Why not?
>>
>>
>
> cattle & sheep are usually stunned with a captive bolt into the head
> prior to cutting their throats
>
> cattle & sheep are used to being herded into single animal width
> channels for routine health checks, shearing & sorting so they get less
> stressed in the abbatoir, making this method quick.
>
> pigs get stressed a lot easier so are kept together as a group before
> being gassed - the publicity will say this is to make the process more
> humane. The reality is that stress hormones can make pork taste awful
> which reduces the value of the meat.
>

It is enough to make me turn veggie[1]. But not quite.

[1] What i Veggie Dave doing these days?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 22/09/2021 07:34, Andy Burns wrote:
> sweller wrote:
>
>>>>> So 'stunning' pigs and chickens in abattoirs with CO2 isn't
>>>>> humane?
>>>>
>>>> If they really do that, then probably not.
>>>
>>> We're being told that they do do that, hence the looming meat
>>> shortage due to CO2 shortage
>>
>> I thought CO2 was used in the packaging process rather then the killing.
>
> I thought meat tended to be vacuum packed?  I dunno I don't eat the
> stuff, but not for trendy veggie/vegan reasons.  Part-baked bread, ready
> meals and salads tend to be packed in an inert/protective atmosphere ...
>

If you[1] buy from a local butcher/farm, they will offer to vacuum pack
for you.

Which raises the next question, how much difference to the shelf life do
the packing methods make?

[1] Round here anyway.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/