On 26/08/2021 08:53, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 at 14:48:45, williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> On 25/08/2021 11:15, Robin wrote:
>>> We've also been led to believe it's an SSSI.  Landowners face
>>> /unlimited/ fines if they allow someone else to do the wrong stuff on
>>> them without Natural England's say-so.
>> Funny how we protect vast tracks of barren moorland yet we build on
>> good farmland to provide housing for the immigrants.
>>
>> Bill
>
> ITYM "tracts".

Thank you. It's always helpful to have typos corrected.

Bill

On 26/08/2021 07:40, Indy Jess John wrote:

> That is the developer's preference if they can get away with it.
> Farmland you can just build on, brownfield sites have to have expensive
> preparation before building can start, to prove that there are no
> contaminants in the ground.

There aren't enough brownfield sites.

Bill

On 26/08/2021 07:53, Tweed wrote:

> Urban city centres are largely trapped in a spiral of decline despite the
> occasional burst of redevelopment.

Because of the immigrants. Import the third world and you get third
world behaviour.

Bill

On 26/08/2021 22:46, williamwright wrote:
> On 26/08/2021 07:53, Tweed wrote:
>
>> Urban city centres are largely trapped in a spiral of decline despite the
>> occasional burst of redevelopment.
>
> Because of the immigrants. Import the third world and you get third
> world behaviour.

More fucking bigotry from boring Mr Bigot. I suggest you watch Saturday
Night and Sunday Morning.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 26/08/2021 01:23, macf...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>> Obviously the extra housing that's going up all over the country is
>> needed because the population is increasing. Simple supply/demand.
>
> Not necessarily, see the graph linked below. People also move about. Those who used to live in the country migrate into the towns. Those who live in town slums try their best to move into suburbia, etc, etc.

"When immigration is too high, when the pace of change is too fast, it’s
impossible to build a cohesive society. It’s difficult for schools and
hospitals and core infrastructure like housing and transport to cope.
And we know that for people in low-paid jobs, wages are forced down even
further while some people are forced out of work altogether. So there is
no case, in the national interest, for immigration of the scale we have
experienced over the last decade.”
Theresa May as Home Secretary
Speech to the Conservative Party Conference

Bill

On 26/08/2021 22:44, williamwright wrote:
> On 26/08/2021 07:40, Indy Jess John wrote:
>
>> That is the developer's preference if they can get away with it.
>> Farmland you can just build on, brownfield sites have to have expensive
>> preparation before building can start, to prove that there are no
>> contaminants in the ground.
>
> There aren't enough brownfield sites.
>
> Bill

There probably are, but a lot of them are simply land-banked.
It is the way the developers ensure that what they build gets the
highest price when sold; they build slowly so that demand always exceeds
supply and those in need are desperate enough to pay whatever is asked.

The problem is the planning legislation. It requires planning
permissions to have an expiry date but not a completion date, and the
expiry clock stops when some minimal level of work has been done. The
developer gets planning permission, does the minimum amount so that the
legislation recognises it as "Development has started" and then the
planning permission never expires and they can then hold onto the land
which remains untouched for years, dribbling small amounts of housing
onto the market when the company accounts indicates an income is needed.
Councils have no legal levers to force the building of things already
given planning permission.

Land with planning permission is traded. There is an area of land near
me with planning permission for two longish terraces of houses with
gardens, three office blocks and a few local shops in place of a disused
factory. The site was cleared and everything demolished has been minced
into hardcore which now forms three big piles of rubble. That site is
now under its third ownership, completely untouched since the initial
demolition. A more obvious land bank is difficult to imagine.

Because so much building land is sitting idle and yet is notionally
committed for development so cannot be reused to meet housing targets,
the local authority has to accept applications to build on farmland. Yet
if everything given planning permission is actually built, the local
housing target would be easily met.

Jim

On 27/08/2021 00:00, williamwright wrote:
>
> "When immigration is too high, when the pace of change is too fast, it’s
> impossible to build a cohesive society. It’s difficult for schools and
> hospitals and core infrastructure like housing and transport to cope.
> And we know that for people in low-paid jobs, wages are forced down even
> further while some people are forced out of work altogether. So there is
> no case, in the national interest, for immigration of the scale we have
> experienced over the last decade.”
> Theresa May as Home Secretary
> Speech to the Conservative Party Conference

But irrelevant to house-building on green-field sites.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 22:53:35 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 26/08/2021 22:46, williamwright wrote:
>> On 26/08/2021 07:53, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> Urban city centres are largely trapped in a spiral of decline despite the
>>> occasional burst of redevelopment.
>>
>> Because of the immigrants. Import the third world and you get third
>> world behaviour.
>
>More fucking bigotry from boring Mr Bigot. I suggest you watch Saturday
>Night and Sunday Morning.

Perhaps there is some truth in what he says though. Have we the
statistics on who's committing most of the violent crimes in the big
cities? There's a strong sense that the mainstream media have a habit
of missing out significant details.

It's certainly plain to see the effects of importing people from a
land where it's evidently acceptable to be murderously defensive of
seventh century religious ideas. Their culture doesn't mix well with
democracy and free speech, or women having the full status of human
beings. Never before has it felt necessary to defend our own
fundamental moral principles in our own land, while being hampered by
the unintended consequences of some of our own laws.

Rod.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:04:55 +0100, Indy Jess John
<bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:

>Land with planning permission is traded. There is an area of land near
>me with planning permission for two longish terraces of houses with
>gardens, three office blocks and a few local shops in place of a disused
>factory. The site was cleared and everything demolished has been minced
>into hardcore which now forms three big piles of rubble. That site is
>now under its third ownership, completely untouched since the initial
>demolition. A more obvious land bank is difficult to imagine.

That explains a couple of sites near me, both of which have been in
something close to stasis for more than ten years. There has been some
recent demolition work on one of them (which I can see from my bedroom
window) but it's very slow; the same two skips full of rubbish have
remained untouched for about a month now, and the weeds round them are
about two feet high again. At the other site, which was completely
demolished on acquisition about 2006, the wooden barrier around the
empty land was replaced with a metal one about five years ago, and so
far that has been that.

Rod.

Brownfield seems to be defined as having had buildings on it but there
are also areas that are contaminated from some industrial use but never
been built on, I would think they can also be considered as "brownfield".

I would think the promise of decontaminating a site will help in getting
planning permission.

On Fri 27/08/2021 08:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:04:55 +0100, Indy Jess John
> <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Land with planning permission is traded. There is an area of land near
>> me with planning permission for two longish terraces of houses with
>> gardens, three office blocks and a few local shops in place of a disused
>> factory. The site was cleared and everything demolished has been minced
>> into hardcore which now forms three big piles of rubble. That site is
>> now under its third ownership, completely untouched since the initial
>> demolition. A more obvious land bank is difficult to imagine.
>
> That explains a couple of sites near me, both of which have been in
> something close to stasis for more than ten years. There has been some
> recent demolition work on one of them (which I can see from my bedroom
> window) but it's very slow; the same two skips full of rubbish have
> remained untouched for about a month now, and the weeds round them are
> about two feet high again. At the other site, which was completely
> demolished on acquisition about 2006, the wooden barrier around the
> empty land was replaced with a metal one about five years ago, and so
> far that has been that.
>

You may not know but Harrogate and some place in the Scottish Highlands
are the only two UK postcodes that do not have a full Tesco. We have an
Express and two Metros but nothing bigger.

When NEGas closed their offices here (next to the gasworks) may 20+
years ago the offices were demolished and the land put up for sale.
Tesco bought it and soon after put in planning permission for a big
store - which was rejected. They have done same about five times over
the years and each time it has been rejected. The land has been up for
sale for maybe 10 years and as no-one seems to have been near it it now
looks like (and probably is) a forest!
Anyone interested look up Epsom Court, Harrogate on Google maps and the
gas works gas holder is just west of it with the Tesco land west of that.

Not that we are short of supermarkets in HG town. We have Asda, JS,
Morrisons, and Waitrose, plus Aldi and shortly a new Lidl, and nine
Co-ops all within the town itself - population somewhere around 70K.

On 27/08/2021 00:04, Indy Jess John wrote:
> There probably are, but a lot of them are simply land-banked.
> It is the way the developers ensure that what they build gets the
> highest price when sold; they build slowly so that demand always exceeds
> supply and those in need are desperate enough to pay whatever is asked.

There are also developers who specialise in finding sites for
supermarkets / retail parks. Not sure if they own the site or act as
intermediary.

For years the council wanted a large supermarket here. Tesco promised to
build on a new site so it was cleared and services put in but nothing
then happened, Tesco had a change in plans. A lot of pressure was put
on them and eventually that abandoned their plans.

There was another site that another developer wanted to use but the
council did not want it to be retail but we now have a nice little
retail park there. The original larger site is going to be a new
hospital and university I think.

On 27/08/2021 08:37, Woody wrote:
> You may not know but Harrogate and some place in the Scottish Highlands
> are the only two UK postcodes that do not have a full Tesco. We have an
> Express and two Metros but nothing bigger.
>
> When NEGas closed their offices here (next to the gasworks) may 20+
> years ago the offices were demolished and the land put up for sale.
> Tesco bought it and soon after put in planning permission for a big
> store - which was rejected. They have done same about five times over
> the years and each time it has been rejected. The land has been up for
> sale for maybe 10 years and as no-one seems to have been near it it now
> looks like (and probably is) a forest!
> Anyone interested look up Epsom Court, Harrogate on Google maps and the
> gas works gas holder is just west of it with the Tesco land west of that.
>
> Not that we are short of supermarkets in HG town. We have Asda, JS,
> Morrisons, and Waitrose, plus Aldi and shortly a new Lidl, and nine
> Co-ops all within the town itself - population somewhere around 70K.

Quite possibly Fort William, we only have a small Tesco in the town
centre (with no parking). There is a large (by local standards!)
Morrisons and LIDL then outside the town centre ALDI and MS as well as
Home Bargains.

I think Tesco's home delivery vans come down from Inverness (60 miles)
as do Asda.

On 27/08/2021 00:04, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 26/08/2021 22:44, williamwright wrote:
>> On 26/08/2021 07:40, Indy Jess John wrote:
>>
>>> That is the developer's preference if they can get away with it.
>>> Farmland you can just build on, brownfield sites have to have expensive
>>> preparation before building can start, to prove that there are no
>>> contaminants in the ground.
>>
>> There aren't enough brownfield sites.
>>
>> Bill
>
> There probably are, but a lot of them are simply land-banked.
> It is the way the developers ensure that what they build gets the
> highest price when sold; they build slowly so that demand always exceeds
> supply and those in need are desperate enough to pay whatever is asked.
>
> The problem is the planning legislation. It requires planning
> permissions to have an expiry date but not a completion date, and the
> expiry clock stops when some minimal level of work has been done. The
> developer gets planning permission, does the minimum amount so that the
> legislation recognises it as "Development has started" and then the
> planning permission never expires and they can then hold onto the land
> which remains untouched for years, dribbling small amounts of housing
> onto the market when the company accounts indicates an income is needed.
> Councils have no legal levers to force the building of things already
> given planning permission.
>
> Land with planning permission is traded. There is an area of land near
> me with planning permission for two longish terraces of houses with
> gardens, three office blocks and a few local shops in place of a disused
> factory. The site was cleared and everything demolished has been minced
> into hardcore which now forms three big piles of rubble. That site is
> now under its third ownership, completely untouched since the initial
> demolition. A more obvious land bank is difficult to imagine.
>
> Because so much building land is sitting idle and yet is notionally
> committed for development so cannot be reused to meet housing targets,
> the local authority has to accept applications to build on farmland. Yet
> if everything given planning permission is actually built, the local
> housing target would be easily met.
>

Where land banking fits into the market was looked at in depth in the
Letwin report in 2018 and the expert analysis that supported it. It
concluded there's no evidence that speculative land banking is part of
the business model for major house builders. It seems to have persuaded
a fair few others who know a thing or two.

And while he was a Tory, Gordon Brown got much the same answer in 2004
in the report he commissioned from Kate Barker.

There's lots of other things which lead to slow build-out rates. As the
reports set out.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 27/08/2021 07:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 22:53:35 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26/08/2021 22:46, williamwright wrote:
>>> On 26/08/2021 07:53, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Urban city centres are largely trapped in a spiral of decline despite the
>>>> occasional burst of redevelopment.
>>>
>>> Because of the immigrants. Import the third world and you get third
>>> world behaviour.
>>
>> More fucking bigotry from boring Mr Bigot. I suggest you watch Saturday
>> Night and Sunday Morning.

More bigotry ...

> Have we the
> statistics on who's committing most of the violent crimes in the big
> cities?

.... is self-contradictory with ...

> It's certainly plain

In other words, you're posing a perfectly valid question, but then
assuming a bigoted answer to it.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 27/08/2021 08:58, MB wrote:
>
> On 27/08/2021 08:37, Woody wrote:
>>
>> You may not know but Harrogate and some place in the Scottish Highlands
>> are the only two UK postcodes that do not have a full Tesco. We have an
>> Express and two Metros but nothing bigger.

I suspect 'some place in the Scottish Highlands' should be plural ...

> Quite possibly Fort William, we only have a small Tesco in the town
> centre (with no parking).  There is a large (by local standards!)
> Morrisons and LIDL then outside the town centre ALDI and MS as well as
> Home Bargains.

Yes, I know Fort William a little because I have cousins in Glenfinnan.
IIRC Ullapool is only an Express as well, and probably some others.
Although it's not an Express, it's clear that Tain is a smaller store
than, for example, Dingwall, while some Expresses, for example one in
Inverness, are bigger than Tain.

> I think Tesco's home delivery vans come down from Inverness (60 miles)
> as do Asda.

Asda certainly deliver all over the Highlands, full stop.

With Tesco, as I've posted about here before, it's a postcode lottery
determined by their routing software using 'as the crow flies' rather
than 'as the road winds' distances. Hence, although they deliver much
further away than us to Skye, as I knew about at the time, and Fort
William which I've just learnt from you, initially an attempt to get
deliveries to us in Shinness a little north of Lairg and a mere 45 miles
from Dingwall, kept foundering on their system's unwavering belief that
Ullapool was our correct local store. Ullapool is a little closer, if
you have wings, but between us and there is some of Scotland's most
beautiful scenery and spectacular geology, and by road winding through
it all it's some miles further than Dingwall, and for half of that
distance it's single track road with passing places that's lower on the
council's winter gritting schedule than the entirety of the road to
Dingwall. It took over 100 emails, many copied to local councillors,
MSPs, MPs, etc, culminating in one to the CEO's office after we gave up
on Customer Services entirely, before we finally got deliveries here,
which thankfully we did a year before the pandemic struck - it's been
a godsend, probably lifesaver given the highish population of older
people here, though there are some young families as well.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <sgai1h$b6c$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 27/08/2021 08:58, MB wrote:
> >
> > On 27/08/2021 08:37, Woody wrote:
> >>
> >> You may not know but Harrogate and some place in the Scottish Highlands
> >> are the only two UK postcodes that do not have a full Tesco. We have an
> >> Express and two Metros but nothing bigger.

> I suspect 'some place in the Scottish Highlands' should be plural ...

> > Quite possibly Fort William, we only have a small Tesco in the town
> > centre (with no parking). There is a large (by local standards!)
> > Morrisons and LIDL then outside the town centre ALDI and MS as well as
> > Home Bargains.

> Yes, I know Fort William a little because I have cousins in Glenfinnan.
> IIRC Ullapool is only an Express as well, and probably some others.
> Although it's not an Express, it's clear that Tain is a smaller store
> than, for example, Dingwall, while some Expresses, for example one in
> Inverness, are bigger than Tain.

> > I think Tesco's home delivery vans come down from Inverness (60 miles)
> > as do Asda.

> Asda certainly deliver all over the Highlands, full stop.

Parked near the relevant railway like some years ago, I noticed a small
goods train simply with 2 containers on wagons. Both containers marked ASDA

> With Tesco, as I've posted about here before, it's a postcode lottery
> determined by their routing software using 'as the crow flies' rather
> than 'as the road winds' distances. Hence, although they deliver much
> further away than us to Skye, as I knew about at the time, and Fort
> William which I've just learnt from you, initially an attempt to get
> deliveries to us in Shinness a little north of Lairg and a mere 45 miles
> from Dingwall, kept foundering on their system's unwavering belief that
> Ullapool was our correct local store. Ullapool is a little closer, if
> you have wings, but between us and there is some of Scotland's most
> beautiful scenery and spectacular geology, and by road winding through
> it all it's some miles further than Dingwall, and for half of that
> distance it's single track road with passing places that's lower on the
> council's winter gritting schedule than the entirety of the road to
> Dingwall. It took over 100 emails, many copied to local councillors,
> MSPs, MPs, etc, culminating in one to the CEO's office after we gave up
> on Customer Services entirely, before we finally got deliveries here,
> which thankfully we did a year before the pandemic struck - it's been
> a godsend, probably lifesaver given the highish population of older
> people here, though there are some young families as well.

Not really much different from RBS deciding to close their branch in
Castlebay, telling the customers to use the one in Tobermory instead.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 27/08/2021 13:51, charles wrote:
> Parked near the relevant railway like some years ago, I noticed a small
> goods train simply with 2 containers on wagons. Both containers marked ASDA
>

> Not really much different from RBS deciding to close their branch in
> Castlebay, telling the customers to use the one in Tobermory instead.

I presume that was Inverness station, can't remember seeing ASDA
containers on the railway in FW or any supermarkets.

Would you expect Nat West to understand the geography of Scotland? :-)

Though someone on one of the smaller islands used to get takeway food
delivered from Castlebay - by Calmac ferry!

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/islands/613718/islands-in-mourning-following-sudden-death-of-popular-restaurant-owner/

"Indeed the neighbouring islands of Tiree and Coll would regularly place
takeaway orders to be delivered by CalMac ferry.

Staff would put the orders on the ferry at Barra, before they would
travel three hours to Tiree and another hour to Coll. Mr Bari used to
joke that his were the longest travelled takeaways in the world."

In article <sgaps0$epq$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 27/08/2021 13:51, charles wrote:
> > Parked near the relevant railway like some years ago, I noticed a small
> > goods train simply with 2 containers on wagons. Both containers marked
> > ASDA
> >

> > Not really much different from RBS deciding to close their branch in
> > Castlebay, telling the customers to use the one in Tobermory instead.

> I presume that was Inverness station, can't remember seeing ASDA
> containers on the railway in FW or any supermarkets.

no, near Halkirk in Caithness

> Would you expect Nat West to understand the geography of Scotland? :-)

I'd have expected them to

> Though someone on one of the smaller islands used to get takeway food
> delivered from Castlebay - by Calmac ferry!

I think that's only a Sunday Service.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 27/08/2021 16:03, charles wrote:
>> I presume that was Inverness station, can't remember seeing ASDA
>> containers on the railway in FW or any supermarkets.
> no, near Halkirk in Caithness
>

Been around there quite a few times, there were a lot of Y Service sites
around there/

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 14:38:54 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 27/08/2021 13:51, charles wrote:
>> Parked near the relevant railway like some years ago, I noticed a small
>> goods train simply with 2 containers on wagons. Both containers marked ASDA
>>
>
>
>> Not really much different from RBS deciding to close their branch in
>> Castlebay, telling the customers to use the one in Tobermory instead.
>
>I presume that was Inverness station, can't remember seeing ASDA
>containers on the railway in FW or any supermarkets.
>
>Would you expect Nat West to understand the geography of Scotland? :-)
>
Certainly not, bit I would expect the Royal Bank of Scotland to do so.

>Though someone on one of the smaller islands used to get takeway food
>delivered from Castlebay - by Calmac ferry!
>
>
>
>https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/islands/613718/islands-in-mourning-following-sudden-death-of-popular-restaurant-owner/
>
>"Indeed the neighbouring islands of Tiree and Coll would regularly place
>takeaway orders to be delivered by CalMac ferry.
>
>Staff would put the orders on the ferry at Barra, before they would
>travel three hours to Tiree and another hour to Coll. Mr Bari used to
>joke that his were the longest travelled takeaways in the world."

--
brightside S9

In article <0dfff511-de62-1afb-53e0-ad2b8c1465f3@outlook.com>, Robin
<rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

> Where land banking fits into the market was looked at in depth in the
> Letwin report in 2018 and the expert analysis that supported it. It
> concluded there's no evidence that speculative land banking is part of
> the business model for major house builders. It seems to have persuaded
> a fair few others who know a thing or two.

Surprise, surprise. An enquiry set up by Tories - who get a lot of their
wealth and support from large developers, etc, and many of those Tories
also own homes they rent out, etc, - found what they preferred to conclude.
Nothing to see here, move along. :-)

> And while he was a Tory, Gordon Brown got much the same answer in 2004
> in the report he commissioned from Kate Barker.

If you've read PE over the decades you'd have seen their exposures wrt how
many LP top-people benefit in much the same ways as the top Tories. That's
why Blair + Brown introduced so many new inventive ways for people to
tax-dodge and hide their wealth, etc. Note that they also didn't ensure
Councils could replace 'social housing' homes 'lost' via right-to-buy, for
example.

However the ploys of the big builders, etc, have expanded over the decades.
So are more of a factor now than they were c2000.

> There's lots of other things which lead to slow build-out rates. As the
> reports set out.

So its simply a gross example of 'market failiure' then?. That's fine....

cf PE Ad Naus.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:59:50 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 27/08/2021 07:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 22:53:35 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/08/2021 22:46, williamwright wrote:
>>>> On 26/08/2021 07:53, Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Urban city centres are largely trapped in a spiral of decline despite the
>>>>> occasional burst of redevelopment.
>>>>
>>>> Because of the immigrants. Import the third world and you get third
>>>> world behaviour.
>>>
>>> More fucking bigotry from boring Mr Bigot. I suggest you watch Saturday
>>> Night and Sunday Morning.
>
>More bigotry ...
>
>> Have we the
>> statistics on who's committing most of the violent crimes in the big
>> cities?
>
>... is self-contradictory with ...
>
>> It's certainly plain
>
>In other words, you're posing a perfectly valid question, but then
>assuming a bigoted answer to it.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with some correct answers then.

Who is doing all (or most) of the shootings and stabbings in our big
cities, notably London?

Who has been running the organised gangs raping children for the past
few decades in several of our provincial cities?

Who has been carrying out all of the terrorist attacks with bombs and
vehicles? (The same agency appears to be responsible for all of these,
but feel free to correct me if that's wrong).

There are a lot of horrible things happening routinely today that I
don't recall seeing the like of at all when I was growing up in
the1960s and 1970s. Something profound has changed since then. I don't
think intelligent speculation based on observable facts counts as
bigotry, and in any case, such is the reticence of our mainstream
media that it's about all we can do. If you have some superior wisdom
that can explain the real reason why civilised life in this country is
gradually turning to shit, please explain it so that bigots like me
(if that's what you think we are) can understand the truth.

Rod.

In article <0nsjigdss2ad3qmale8hha98h23gq7jn7g@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:59:50 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:

> >On 27/08/2021 07:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 22:53:35 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 26/08/2021 22:46, williamwright wrote:
> >>>> On 26/08/2021 07:53, Tweed wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Urban city centres are largely trapped in a spiral of decline despite the
> >>>>> occasional burst of redevelopment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Because of the immigrants. Import the third world and you get third
> >>>> world behaviour.
> >>>
> >>> More fucking bigotry from boring Mr Bigot. I suggest you watch Saturday
> >>> Night and Sunday Morning.
> >
> >More bigotry ...
> >
> >> Have we the
> >> statistics on who's committing most of the violent crimes in the big
> >> cities?
> >
> >... is self-contradictory with ...
> >
> >> It's certainly plain
> >
> >In other words, you're posing a perfectly valid question, but then
> >assuming a bigoted answer to it.

> Perhaps you could enlighten us with some correct answers then.

> Who is doing all (or most) of the shootings and stabbings in our
> big cities, notably London?

> Who has been running the organised gangs raping children for the
> past few decades in several of our provincial cities?

> Who has been carrying out all of the terrorist attacks with bombs
> and vehicles? (The same agency appears to be responsible for all of
> these, but feel free to correct me if that's wrong).

> There are a lot of horrible things happening routinely today that I
> don't recall seeing the like of at all when I was growing up in
> the1960s and 1970s. Something profound has changed since then. I
> don't think intelligent speculation based on observable facts
> counts as bigotry, and in any case, such is the reticence of our
> mainstream media that it's about all we can do. If you have some
> superior wisdom that can explain the real reason why civilised life
> in this country is gradually turning to shit, please explain it so
> that bigots like me (if that's what you think we are) can
> understand the truth.

> Rod.

Well said. +1

Bob

On 27/08/2021 10:39, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <0dfff511-de62-1afb-53e0-ad2b8c1465f3@outlook.com>, Robin
> <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> Where land banking fits into the market was looked at in depth in the
>> Letwin report in 2018 and the expert analysis that supported it. It
>> concluded there's no evidence that speculative land banking is part of
>> the business model for major house builders. It seems to have persuaded
>> a fair few others who know a thing or two.
>
> Surprise, surprise. An enquiry set up by Tories - who get a lot of their
> wealth and support from large developers, etc, and many of those Tories
> also own homes they rent out, etc, - found what they preferred to conclude.
> Nothing to see here, move along. :-)
>
>> And while he was a Tory, Gordon Brown got much the same answer in 2004
>> in the report he commissioned from Kate Barker.
>
> If you've read PE over the decades you'd have seen their exposures wrt how
> many LP top-people benefit in much the same ways as the top Tories. That's
> why Blair + Brown introduced so many new inventive ways for people to
> tax-dodge and hide their wealth, etc. Note that they also didn't ensure
> Councils could replace 'social housing' homes 'lost' via right-to-buy, for
> example.
>
> However the ploys of the big builders, etc, have expanded over the decades.
> So are more of a factor now than they were c2000.
>
>> There's lots of other things which lead to slow build-out rates. As the
>> reports set out.
>
> So its simply a gross example of 'market failiure' then?. That's fine....

Your prejudice is showing. You clearly didn't bother to find out what
the report did say. It included recommended changes to planning to
raise the proportion of affordable housing, and raise the rate of build
out.

> cf PE Ad Naus.
>

I suggest you should not rely on PE to tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. As I've said before, when I knew stuff it
dealt with it sometimes PE had good investigative journalism. And
sometimes PE published lies and misrepresented facts.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid