On 09/10/2023 09:51, David Wade wrote:
> users will find they need to move to FTTP or face a huge increase in bills.
or use a 4G/5G modem

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 09/10/2023 11:57, Andy Burns wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
>> Openreach was forced by Ofcom to open up their infrastructure to
>> competitors, Virgin wasn't.
>
> I watched an altnet "technician" stringing up a fibre to the top of a BT
> pole, he raised his cherry picker (no ladder) with no regard to where
> the existing drop cables were, they hit his shoulders, he didn't stop,
> just carried on going up until they pinged off his arms.
>

ditto for Hyperoptic here.

And I was left wondering if there's a protocol to manage Openreach and
Hyperoptic wanting to work on the same pole at the same time. My cherry
picker is bigger...?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 09/10/2023 12:47, alan_m wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 10:43, David Wade wrote:
>
>>>
>>> There is no end date on my Zen contract though.
>>
>> So its an old contract with a "price fixed for life" contract? If so
>> they say:-
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>  From time to time, we do make changes to our customers’ products to
>> ensure they are getting the most from their Zen connections, but
>> without asking customers to sign up for a new contract. With this in
>> mind, if you signed up with our Price for Life, then we will honour
>> this for any
>> migrations made by Zen.
>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> so definitely worth staying put...
>>
>
> In your case yes.  Zen in the past have honoured this type of contract
> and where a transfer instigated by them alone has been required the
> price has remained the same.  When the time comes you may be transferred
> to an equivalent, or better, speed FTTP and your original contract price
> stays the same.
>
> I'm not sure what will happen with a landline phone where you pay them
> line rental.
>
> Requesting digital voice when analogue goes may trigger a new 12 month
> broadband contract at current prices and with no price guarantees
> (except during the initial 12 months)
>
>
I would hope the price would come down. Their digital voice is very
well priced compared to BT

Dave

In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
snip
>>>>
>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>
>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or so. As a
>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>
>>>> The 8 properties in our 500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg down so
>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>
>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>
>>>> 4g?
>>>>
>>
>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>country.
>>
>>> Tim
>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>
>
>Mine is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>electricity substation and my own fibre pole!

Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
>
>everything else is underground
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 08/10/2023 16:48, Andy Burns wrote:
> Max Demian wrote:
>
>> There must be plenty of blocks where the phone lines into flats are
>> embedded in concrete like mine. You wouldn't be able to replace them
>> with fibre;
>
> So they'll run a fibre into the building a different way ...

You mean like Virgin do with cables in green corrugated sheaths laid
across the ground?

--
Max Demian

On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
> snip
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>
>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or so.
>>>>> As a
>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg down so
>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>
>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>
>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>> country.
>>>
>>>> Tim
>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>
>>
>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>> electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>
> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!

>

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 09/10/2023 15:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or so.
>>>>>> As a
>>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg down so
>>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>>> country.
>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>>> electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>>
>> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
> Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!
>
>>
>

Oh, you mean a septic tank? :-)

In article <ug0v5f$3tl8i$2@dont-email.me>,
Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 08/10/2023 16:48, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Max Demian wrote:
> >
> >> There must be plenty of blocks where the phone lines into flats are
> >> embedded in concrete like mine. You wouldn't be able to replace them
> >> with fibre;
> >
> > So they'll run a fibre into the building a different way ...

> You mean like Virgin do with cables in green corrugated sheaths laid
> across the ground?

or, as at my daughter's last house, simply thrown over the hedge

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 09/10/2023 13:40, David Wade wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 12:47, alan_m wrote:
>> On 09/10/2023 10:43, David Wade wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> There is no end date on my Zen contract though.
>>>
>>> So its an old contract with a "price fixed for life" contract? If so
>>> they say:-
>>>
>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>  From time to time, we do make changes to our customers’ products to
>>> ensure they are getting the most from their Zen connections, but
>>> without asking customers to sign up for a new contract. With this in
>>> mind, if you signed up with our Price for Life, then we will honour
>>> this for any
>>> migrations made by Zen.
>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> so definitely worth staying put...
>>>
>>
>> In your case yes.  Zen in the past have honoured this type of contract
>> and where a transfer instigated by them alone has been required the
>> price has remained the same.  When the time comes you may be
>> transferred to an equivalent, or better, speed FTTP and your original
>> contract price stays the same.
>>
>> I'm not sure what will happen with a landline phone where you pay them
>> line rental.
>>
>> Requesting digital voice when analogue goes may trigger a new 12 month
>> broadband contract at current prices and with no price guarantees
>> (except during the initial 12 months)
>>
>>
> I would hope the  price would come down. Their digital voice is very
> well priced compared to BT

Even it there it no analogue phone capability on your copper owned
BT/Openreach line there may/will still be a line rental charge for it to
carry your broadband.
Digital Voice from Zen is also a 1000 minute call package.
>
> Dave

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 09/10/2023 15:58, SH wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 15:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or
>>>>>>> so. As a
>>>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg
>>>>>>> down so
>>>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>>>> country.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>>>> electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>>>
>>> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
>> Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!
>>
>>>
>>
>
> Oh, you mean a septic tank? :-)

I do not! They are no longer legal on new builds. I mean a full dyed in
the wool discharge to a watercourse approved sewage treatment plant.

https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en/products/water-management/domestic-sewage-treatment-plants/biodisc-domestic-sewage-treatment-plant/

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On 09/10/2023 18:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 15:58, SH wrote:
>> On 09/10/2023 15:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
>>>> snip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or
>>>>>>>> so. As a
>>>>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg
>>>>>>>> down so
>>>>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>>>>> country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>>>>> electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>>>>
>>>> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
>>> Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Oh, you mean a septic tank? :-)
>
> I do not! They are no longer legal  on new builds. I mean a full dyed in
> the wool discharge to a watercourse approved sewage treatment plant.
>
> https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en/products/water-management/domestic-sewage-treatment-plants/biodisc-domestic-sewage-treatment-plant/
>

Oh you mean a klargester..... :-)

On 09/10/2023 18:00, alan_m wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 13:40, David Wade wrote:
>> On 09/10/2023 12:47, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2023 10:43, David Wade wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no end date on my Zen contract though.
>>>>
>>>> So its an old contract with a "price fixed for life" contract? If so
>>>> they say:-
>>>>
>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>  From time to time, we do make changes to our customers’ products to
>>>> ensure they are getting the most from their Zen connections, but
>>>> without asking customers to sign up for a new contract. With this in
>>>> mind, if you signed up with our Price for Life, then we will honour
>>>> this for any
>>>> migrations made by Zen.
>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so definitely worth staying put...
>>>>
>>>
>>> In your case yes.  Zen in the past have honoured this type of
>>> contract and where a transfer instigated by them alone has been
>>> required the price has remained the same.  When the time comes you
>>> may be transferred to an equivalent, or better, speed FTTP and your
>>> original contract price stays the same.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what will happen with a landline phone where you pay
>>> them line rental.
>>>
>>> Requesting digital voice when analogue goes may trigger a new 12
>>> month broadband contract at current prices and with no price
>>> guarantees (except during the initial 12 months)
>>>
>>>
>> I would hope the  price would come down. Their digital voice is very
>> well priced compared to BT
>
> Even it there it no analogue phone capability on your copper owned
> BT/Openreach line there may/will still be a line rental charge for it to
> carry your broadband.
> Digital Voice from Zen is also a 1000 minute call package
If you don't have a line how can they charge for it?
They are selling what they call SoGEA which is more expensive than FTTC
but cheaper that FTTC plus line.

In any case the discussion was about being moved to FTTP in which case
there is no copper...

>>
>> Dave
>

Dave

In message <ug1etu$1rhh$2@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 09/10/2023 15:58, SH wrote:
>> On 09/10/2023 15:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>><tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
>>>> snip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or
>>>>>>>>so. As a
>>>>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>>>>>country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>>>>>electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>>>>
>>>> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
>>> Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> Oh, you mean a septic tank? :-)
>
>I do not! They are no longer legal on new builds. I mean a full dyed
>in the wool discharge to a watercourse approved sewage treatment plant.
>
>https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en/products/water-management/domestic-sewage
>-treatment-plants/biodisc-domestic-sewage-treatment-plant/
Is your garden pond classed as a watercourse?
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 08/10/2023 20:51, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 07/10/2023 10:20, Peter Able wrote:
>>
>> This field is relatively new to me - so I had to look up CGNAT.  Not
>> sure that I've got it right, but this implementation is a Samsung S5
>> on the Vodafone network acting as a hotspot for up to 10 devices.  So
>> no need for IPs all round - but, as you say, no VPN capability.
>>
>> Since my wife was killed off, it is just me that needs to be supplied.
>> As it was, the FTTC speed was a 9Mbps service with loads of contention <<<<<<<<< >> - and no plans for FTTP.  The 4G signal here is typically -108dBm, but
>> it seems to be reliable. O2 is about -112dBm.  Three and EE are about
>> -120dBM.  Vodafone is the only of these networks which holds up a 4G
>> connection in the house 24/7.  It is a comms ghetto around here  The
>> bit-rates - both up and down - are a lot more stable than with FTTC
>> where the bit-rate was down to about 2Mbps from 3 to 6pm.
>>
>> One bit of extra performance data.  A telephone call using the S5
>> handset seems to use about 3Mbps of the available bandwidth.
>>
>> Current performance @ 10:00 today (Saturday)  13Mbps / 2Mbps
>>
>> [ We could do with some levelling up in the Home Counties ]
>
> 9MBPS ADSL isn't a ghetto. Nobody in our village had more than 5 before
> they rolled out fibre, and my mum gets less than 1.
>
> Andy

Who wrote 9MBPS ADSL? Not me. When this village was ADSL only I could
get about 3Mbps. My neighbours were well below 1Mbps. I got quite a
reputation as the guy who knew how to rearrange their bungled
installations - bringing them up to 3Mbps.

I call it a comms ghetto service right across Mobile signals, ADSL or
FTTC. It is all very marginal around here. Heaven knows what will
happen when 3G disappears and/or if Vodafone and Three merge.

PA

On 09/10/2023 19:23, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ug1etu$1rhh$2@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 09/10/2023 15:58, SH wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2023 15:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>>>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
>>>>> snip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or
>>>>>>>>> so. As a
>>>>>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg
>>>>>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>>>>>> country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>>>>>> electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
>>>> Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Oh, you mean a septic tank? :-)
>>
>> I do not! They are no longer legal  on new builds. I mean a full dyed
>> in the wool discharge to a watercourse approved sewage treatment plant.
>>
>> https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en/products/water-management/domestic-sewage
>> -treatment-plants/biodisc-domestic-sewage-treatment-plant/
> Is your garden pond classed as a watercourse?

Aren't you allowed to dump raw sewage into a watercourse every time it
rains?

On 09/10/2023 19:23, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ug1etu$1rhh$2@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 09/10/2023 15:58, SH wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2023 15:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 09/10/2023 13:57, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>> In message <ug0rgi$3rtml$17@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>>>> On 09/10/2023 08:08, charles wrote:
>>>>> snip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apologies for not keeping up on this!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Our village was an early adopter of ducted connections 1994 or
>>>>>>>>> so. As a
>>>>>>>>> consequence fibre has been very slow to arrive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 8 properties in our  500m lane did not get ducts so our
>>>>>>>>> telephone/Internet is still overhead copper/aluminium. (13meg
>>>>>>>>> not a disaster).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How is this going to be resolved regarding the various deadlines?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4g?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Theirs no problem putting fibre overhead. Happening all over the
>>>>>>>> country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>> Indeed, My feed is on an overhead cable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mine  is too for the last 20 feet. I am privileged, I have my own
>>>>>> electricity substation and my own fibre pole!
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh! I have my own Thames Water sewage pumping station!
>>>> Fuck that., I raise you a private sewage treatment plant. Owned by ME!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Oh, you mean a septic tank? :-)
>>
>> I do not! They are no longer legal  on new builds. I mean a full dyed
>> in the wool discharge to a watercourse approved sewage treatment plant.
>>
>> https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en/products/water-management/domestic-sewage
>> -treatment-plants/biodisc-domestic-sewage-treatment-plant/
> Is your garden pond classed as a watercourse?
>>
no, but the dry ditch down the side is, apparently

>

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 09/10/2023 19:24, David Wade wrote:
>>
>> Even it there it no analogue phone capability on your copper owned
>> BT/Openreach line there may/will still be a line rental charge for it
>> to carry your broadband.
>> Digital Voice from Zen is also a 1000 minute call package
> If you don't have a line how can they charge for it?

you still have copper top the street box...

> They are selling what they call SoGEA which is more expensive than FTTC
> but cheaper that FTTC plus line.
>
> In any case the discussion was about being moved to FTTP in which case
> there is no copper...

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 09/10/2023 12:48, SH wrote:
> Never heard of Pulsenet as an ISP...... will have to google for them.....

I suspect he meant Plusnet

www.plus.net

Andy

On 09/10/2023 20:14, Peter Able wrote:
> On 08/10/2023 20:51, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 07/10/2023 10:20, Peter Able wrote:
>>>
>>> This field is relatively new to me - so I had to look up CGNAT.  Not
>>> sure that I've got it right, but this implementation is a Samsung S5
>>> on the Vodafone network acting as a hotspot for up to 10 devices.  So
>>> no need for IPs all round - but, as you say, no VPN capability.
>>>
>>> Since my wife was killed off, it is just me that needs to be
>>> supplied. As it was, the FTTC speed was a 9Mbps service with loads of
>>> contention   <<<<<<<<< >> - and no plans for FTTP.  The 4G signal
>>> here is typically -108dBm, but
>>> it seems to be reliable. O2 is about -112dBm.  Three and EE are about
>>> -120dBM.  Vodafone is the only of these networks which holds up a 4G
>>> connection in the house 24/7.  It is a comms ghetto around here  The
>>> bit-rates - both up and down - are a lot more stable than with FTTC
>>> where the bit-rate was down to about 2Mbps from 3 to 6pm.
>>>
>>> One bit of extra performance data.  A telephone call using the S5
>>> handset seems to use about 3Mbps of the available bandwidth.
>>>
>>> Current performance @ 10:00 today (Saturday)  13Mbps / 2Mbps
>>>
>>> [ We could do with some levelling up in the Home Counties ]
>>
>> 9MBPS ADSL isn't a ghetto. Nobody in our village had more than 5
>> before they rolled out fibre, and my mum gets less than 1.
>>
>> Andy
>
> Who wrote 9MBPS ADSL?  Not me.  When this village was ADSL only I could
> get about 3Mbps.  My neighbours were well below 1Mbps.  I got quite a
> reputation as the guy who knew how to rearrange their bungled
> installations - bringing them up to 3Mbps.
>
> I call it a comms ghetto service right across Mobile signals, ADSL or
> FTTC.  It is all very marginal around here.  Heaven knows what will
> happen when 3G disappears and/or if Vodafone and Three merge.
>

My mistake. You wrote 9Mbps, not 9MBPS.

Andy

On 10/10/2023 16:24, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 09/10/2023 20:14, Peter Able wrote:
>> On 08/10/2023 20:51, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>> On 07/10/2023 10:20, Peter Able wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This field is relatively new to me - so I had to look up CGNAT.  Not
>>>> sure that I've got it right, but this implementation is a Samsung S5
>>>> on the Vodafone network acting as a hotspot for up to 10 devices.
>>>> So no need for IPs all round - but, as you say, no VPN capability.
>>>>
>>>> Since my wife was killed off, it is just me that needs to be
>>>> supplied. As it was, the FTTC speed was a 9Mbps service with loads
>>>> of contention   <<<<<<<<< >> - and no plans for FTTP.  The 4G signal
>>>> here is typically -108dBm, but
>>>> it seems to be reliable. O2 is about -112dBm.  Three and EE are
>>>> about -120dBM.  Vodafone is the only of these networks which holds
>>>> up a 4G connection in the house 24/7.  It is a comms ghetto around
>>>> here  The bit-rates - both up and down - are a lot more stable than
>>>> with FTTC where the bit-rate was down to about 2Mbps from 3 to 6pm.
>>>>
>>>> One bit of extra performance data.  A telephone call using the S5
>>>> handset seems to use about 3Mbps of the available bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>> Current performance @ 10:00 today (Saturday)  13Mbps / 2Mbps
>>>>
>>>> [ We could do with some levelling up in the Home Counties ]
>>>
>>> 9MBPS ADSL isn't a ghetto. Nobody in our village had more than 5
>>> before they rolled out fibre, and my mum gets less than 1.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>
>> Who wrote 9MBPS ADSL?  Not me.  When this village was ADSL only I
>> could get about 3Mbps.  My neighbours were well below 1Mbps.  I got
>> quite a reputation as the guy who knew how to rearrange their bungled
>> installations - bringing them up to 3Mbps.
>>
>> I call it a comms ghetto service right across Mobile signals, ADSL or
>> FTTC.  It is all very marginal around here.  Heaven knows what will
>> happen when 3G disappears and/or if Vodafone and Three merge.
>>
>
> My mistake. You wrote 9Mbps, not 9MBPS.
>
> Andy
>

I wrote neither "9MBPS ADSL" nor "9Mbps ADSL". Stop digging your own
grave, Andy.

On 11/10/2023 10:36, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/10/2023 16:24, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 09/10/2023 20:14, Peter Able wrote:
>>> On 08/10/2023 20:51, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>> On 07/10/2023 10:20, Peter Able wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This field is relatively new to me - so I had to look up CGNAT.
>>>>> Not sure that I've got it right, but this implementation is a
>>>>> Samsung S5 on the Vodafone network acting as a hotspot for up to 10
>>>>> devices. So no need for IPs all round - but, as you say, no VPN
>>>>> capability.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since my wife was killed off, it is just me that needs to be
>>>>> supplied. As it was, the FTTC speed was a 9Mbps service with loads
>>>>> of contention   <<<<<<<<< >> - and no plans for FTTP.  The 4G
>>>>> signal here is typically -108dBm, but
>>>>> it seems to be reliable. O2 is about -112dBm.  Three and EE are
>>>>> about -120dBM.  Vodafone is the only of these networks which holds
>>>>> up a 4G connection in the house 24/7.  It is a comms ghetto around
>>>>> here  The bit-rates - both up and down - are a lot more stable than
>>>>> with FTTC where the bit-rate was down to about 2Mbps from 3 to 6pm.
>>>>>
>>>>> One bit of extra performance data.  A telephone call using the S5
>>>>> handset seems to use about 3Mbps of the available bandwidth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current performance @ 10:00 today (Saturday)  13Mbps / 2Mbps
>>>>>
>>>>> [ We could do with some levelling up in the Home Counties ]
>>>>
>>>> 9MBPS ADSL isn't a ghetto. Nobody in our village had more than 5
>>>> before they rolled out fibre, and my mum gets less than 1.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>
>>> Who wrote 9MBPS ADSL?  Not me.  When this village was ADSL only I
>>> could get about 3Mbps.  My neighbours were well below 1Mbps.  I got
>>> quite a reputation as the guy who knew how to rearrange their bungled
>>> installations - bringing them up to 3Mbps.
>>>
>>> I call it a comms ghetto service right across Mobile signals, ADSL or
>>> FTTC.  It is all very marginal around here.  Heaven knows what will
>>> happen when 3G disappears and/or if Vodafone and Three merge.
>>>
>>
>> My mistake. You wrote 9Mbps, not 9MBPS.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>
> I wrote neither "9MBPS ADSL" nor "9Mbps ADSL".  Stop digging your own
> grave, Andy.

Ah, I see what you mean. My mistake in confusing the two wired technologies.

Neither where we are, nor where my mother is, were regarded as being
suitable for VDSL - a technology I've never used.

Yours was obviously an easier area to fit; I still don't think 9 is as
bad as 5.

Andy

On 08/10/2023 13:23, Andy Burns wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Tthe kit is running as fast as it's allowed.
>>
>> No, as fast as it is *able*.
>
> openreach caps profile 17a to 80/20, and don't support profile 30a or 35a
>
>> Once you have filled all the frequency bins thats it..
>
> It's hitting an artificial limit, my previous modem estimated how fast
> it could go if allowed, I think it was something like 110/30

You can get G.Fast on some lines though (similar technology to
VDSL2/35b), and that can run up to 300Mbps. The main catch is a max
copper line length of about 250m

(I have one client on that who apparently has a length of ali in the
phone line as well. They still see about 160/30 though)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 28/10/2023 03:28, John Rumm wrote:
> On 08/10/2023 13:23, Andy Burns wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tthe kit is running as fast as it's allowed.
>>>
>>> No, as fast as it is *able*.
>>
>> openreach caps profile 17a to 80/20, and don't support profile 30a or 35a
>>
>>> Once you have filled all the frequency bins thats it..
>>
>> It's hitting an artificial limit, my previous modem estimated how fast
>> it could go if allowed, I think it was something like 110/30
>
> You can get G.Fast on some lines though (similar technology to
> VDSL2/35b), and that can run up to 300Mbps. The main catch is a max
> copper line length of about 250m
>
> (I have one client on that who apparently has a length of ali in the
> phone line as well. They still see about 160/30 though)
>
There is a road about half a mile from me whose lines are aluminium,
each property being supplied from a telegraph pole.

--
Regards
wasbit

On 28/10/2023 03:28, John Rumm wrote:
> On 08/10/2023 13:23, Andy Burns wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tthe kit is running as fast as it's allowed.
>>>
>>> No, as fast as it is *able*.
>>
>> openreach caps profile 17a to 80/20, and don't support profile 30a or 35a
>>
>>> Once you have filled all the frequency bins thats it..
>>
>> It's hitting an artificial limit, my previous modem estimated how fast
>> it could go if allowed, I think it was something like 110/30
>
> You can get G.Fast on some lines though (similar technology to
> VDSL2/35b), and that can run up to 300Mbps. The main catch is a max
> copper line length of about 250m
>
> (I have one client on that who apparently has a length of ali in the
> phone line as well. They still see about 160/30 though)
>

Its becoming hard to get G.Fast.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/10/the-misery-of-diminishing-choice-in-g-fast-uk-broadband-areas.html

Dave

John Rumm wrote:

> You can get G.Fast on some lines though (similar technology to
> VDSL2/35b), and that can run up to 300Mbps.

I think BT realised pretty quickly after a few trial areas, that g.fast
wasn't much of a step up from vdsl, maybe it also caused cross-service
interference (which I think is why the don't offer profile 30a or 35b)?

There's one green cabinet nearby that has what /looks/ like a g.fast pod
bolted on the side, but as far as I know it isn't one of the g.fast
trial sites.