On 10/07/2023 16:17, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 12:46, SH wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 12:28, Max Demian wrote:
>>> On 09/07/2023 21:50, Peter Able wrote:
>>>
>>>> "I have Plusnet for phone and FTTC at about 1km straight-line from
>>>> the nearest Cabinet.  I plan to rely totally on a mobile using a
>>>> *smart phone as a wifi hotspot.  Unlimited calls/texts and some data
>>>> for, at least for a while, 49p/month!  Long term, for less than £5 a
>>>> month - way less than Plusnet's £25+ offer to renew.
>>>>
>>>> "Incidentally, Plusnet are offering me Data only - but it costs more
>>>> than data + telephone.  Perhaps I've missed something?
>>>>
>>>> "My latest Plusnet profile is 9Mbps. It drops to about 3MBps at busy
>>>> times. Way less than the "expected 16 to 31 Mbps" estimate at the
>>>> last Plusnet renewal.  The mobile does data at about 14 - 15 Mbps.
>>>>
>>>> "This is from August onwards. O2(Lycamobile)  and
>>>> Vodaphone(Lebara)'s 4G one-bar signal holds up in the house. Better
>>>> Mbps upstairs than down**. Wifi works throughout the house with the
>>>> smart phone at the point of best 4G signal.
>>>
>>> I posted this earlier:
>>>
>>> I did some research and the following are available from Argos:
>>>
>>> TP-Link M7350 4G LTE Mobile Wi-Fi Router: £74.99
>>> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8624969
>>>
>>> SMARTY UNLIMITED 30 Day Pay As You Go Data Only SIM Card: £1, then
>>> £20 pcm for unlimited data
>>> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1122248
>>>
>>> I pay about £35 pcm for line rental (BT) plus Internet (PlusNet).
>>>
>>> Probably worth considering as backup of PlusNet goes tits up/is
>>> amalgamated and I lose my email address and 250 MB webspace.
>>>
>>
>>
>> or go to Three's website and get a 5g router and unlimited broandband
>> for £20 a month, minimum term of 24 months.
>>
>> https://www.three.co.uk/broadband/home-broadband and 1st 3 months is
>> free...
>>
>> Then after 24 months you can then cease the Three sim and use a
>> different providers sim.
>>
>> The router has external aerial sockets so you can buy a 5g aerial from
>> the likes of solwise.
>
> Tried Three 4G. -126dbm and no connection holdable.  Tried O2 (Lyca) 4G.
>  Works, but consistently weaker/slower than Vodafone.  I note that Lyca
> have switched to EE - no chance.
>
> PA

was those measurements made with an external aerial?

It does make a differece if outside and high up as Line of sight is then
less cluttered

S.

On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 16:06:34 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

> Gosh, my plusnet phone and unlimited broadband is/was £26

Mine was £29.95, now my new contract is £24.99. (FTTC 70/20).

--
TOJ.

On 10/07/2023 19:07, SH wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 16:17, Peter Able wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 12:46, SH wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2023 12:28, Max Demian wrote:
>>>> On 09/07/2023 21:50, Peter Able wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "I have Plusnet for phone and FTTC at about 1km straight-line from
>>>>> the nearest Cabinet.  I plan to rely totally on a mobile using a
>>>>> *smart phone as a wifi hotspot.  Unlimited calls/texts and some
>>>>> data for, at least for a while, 49p/month!  Long term, for less
>>>>> than £5 a month - way less than Plusnet's £25+ offer to renew.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Incidentally, Plusnet are offering me Data only - but it costs
>>>>> more than data + telephone.  Perhaps I've missed something?
>>>>>
>>>>> "My latest Plusnet profile is 9Mbps. It drops to about 3MBps at
>>>>> busy times. Way less than the "expected 16 to 31 Mbps" estimate at
>>>>> the last Plusnet renewal.  The mobile does data at about 14 - 15 Mbps.
>>>>>
>>>>> "This is from August onwards. O2(Lycamobile)  and
>>>>> Vodaphone(Lebara)'s 4G one-bar signal holds up in the house. Better
>>>>> Mbps upstairs than down**. Wifi works throughout the house with the
>>>>> smart phone at the point of best 4G signal.
>>>>
>>>> I posted this earlier:
>>>>
>>>> I did some research and the following are available from Argos:
>>>>
>>>> TP-Link M7350 4G LTE Mobile Wi-Fi Router: £74.99
>>>> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8624969
>>>>
>>>> SMARTY UNLIMITED 30 Day Pay As You Go Data Only SIM Card: £1, then
>>>> £20 pcm for unlimited data
>>>> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1122248
>>>>
>>>> I pay about £35 pcm for line rental (BT) plus Internet (PlusNet).
>>>>
>>>> Probably worth considering as backup of PlusNet goes tits up/is
>>>> amalgamated and I lose my email address and 250 MB webspace.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> or go to Three's website and get a 5g router and unlimited broandband
>>> for £20 a month, minimum term of 24 months.
>>>
>>> https://www.three.co.uk/broadband/home-broadband and 1st 3 months is
>>> free...
>>>
>>> Then after 24 months you can then cease the Three sim and use a
>>> different providers sim.
>>>
>>> The router has external aerial sockets so you can buy a 5g aerial
>>> from the likes of solwise.
>>
>> Tried Three 4G. -126dbm and no connection holdable.  Tried O2 (Lyca)
>> 4G.   Works, but consistently weaker/slower than Vodafone.  I note
>> that Lyca have switched to EE - no chance.
>>
>> PA
>
>
> was those measurements made with an external aerial?
>
> It does make a differece if outside and high up as Line of sight is then
> less cluttered
>
> S.

That was from the best position within the house. For comparison the
Vodafone signal at the same point in the house is about -108dBm.

The signals in the middle of the road are about the same for those two
networks. Trading height and screening by the house!

That said, the signals were atrocious today, early afternoon. Never
seen it so bad in six months of testing! That said Youtube could still
deliver HD video without reloading, very different to Plusnet's offering.

Currently, from the best position in the house:
2G - four bars of O2
3G - three bars of Vodafone
4G - one to two bars, -107dBm to -102dBm of Vodafone

PA

On 10/07/2023 19:54, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 19:07, SH wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 16:17, Peter Able wrote:
>>> On 10/07/2023 12:46, SH wrote:
>>>> On 10/07/2023 12:28, Max Demian wrote:
>>>>> On 09/07/2023 21:50, Peter Able wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "I have Plusnet for phone and FTTC at about 1km straight-line from
>>>>>> the nearest Cabinet.  I plan to rely totally on a mobile using a
>>>>>> *smart phone as a wifi hotspot.  Unlimited calls/texts and some
>>>>>> data for, at least for a while, 49p/month!  Long term, for less
>>>>>> than £5 a month - way less than Plusnet's £25+ offer to renew.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Incidentally, Plusnet are offering me Data only - but it costs
>>>>>> more than data + telephone.  Perhaps I've missed something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "My latest Plusnet profile is 9Mbps. It drops to about 3MBps at
>>>>>> busy times. Way less than the "expected 16 to 31 Mbps" estimate at
>>>>>> the last Plusnet renewal.  The mobile does data at about 14 - 15
>>>>>> Mbps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This is from August onwards. O2(Lycamobile)  and
>>>>>> Vodaphone(Lebara)'s 4G one-bar signal holds up in the house.
>>>>>> Better Mbps upstairs than down**. Wifi works throughout the house
>>>>>> with the smart phone at the point of best 4G signal.
>>>>>
>>>>> I posted this earlier:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did some research and the following are available from Argos:
>>>>>
>>>>> TP-Link M7350 4G LTE Mobile Wi-Fi Router: £74.99
>>>>> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8624969
>>>>>
>>>>> SMARTY UNLIMITED 30 Day Pay As You Go Data Only SIM Card: £1, then
>>>>> £20 pcm for unlimited data
>>>>> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1122248
>>>>>
>>>>> I pay about £35 pcm for line rental (BT) plus Internet (PlusNet).
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably worth considering as backup of PlusNet goes tits up/is
>>>>> amalgamated and I lose my email address and 250 MB webspace.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> or go to Three's website and get a 5g router and unlimited
>>>> broandband for £20 a month, minimum term of 24 months.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.three.co.uk/broadband/home-broadband and 1st 3 months is
>>>> free...
>>>>
>>>> Then after 24 months you can then cease the Three sim and use a
>>>> different providers sim.
>>>>
>>>> The router has external aerial sockets so you can buy a 5g aerial
>>>> from the likes of solwise.
>>>
>>> Tried Three 4G. -126dbm and no connection holdable.  Tried O2 (Lyca)
>>> 4G.   Works, but consistently weaker/slower than Vodafone.  I note
>>> that Lyca have switched to EE - no chance.
>>>
>>> PA
>>
>>
>> was those measurements made with an external aerial?
>>
>> It does make a differece if outside and high up as Line of sight is
>> then less cluttered
>>
>> S.
>
> That was from the best position within the house.  For comparison the
> Vodafone signal at the same point in the house is about -108dBm.
>
> The signals in the middle of the road are about the same for those two
> networks.  Trading height and screening by the house!
>
> That said, the signals were atrocious today, early afternoon.  Never
> seen it so bad in six months of testing!  That said Youtube could still
> deliver HD video without reloading, very different to Plusnet's offering.
>
> Currently, from the best position in the house:
> 2G - four bars of O2
> 3G - three bars of Vodafone
> 4G - one to two bars, -107dBm to -102dBm of Vodafone
>
> PA

the interesting thing about 5g is that it can send & recieve from
several different towers simultaaneously which then increases
throughput, and also as its a different modulation scheme, it can work
at lower dBm.

So another reason to have an external antenna higher up as then extra
towers then come into play.

If you know where the towers are and what network they support, you may
find a directional antenna may also help.

On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 5:27:04 PM UTC+1, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 16:23, Peter Able wrote:
> > On 10/07/2023 14:52, Nick Odell wrote:
> >> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 8:51:00 PM UTC, Peter Able wrote:
> >>> "I have Plusnet for phone and FTTC at about 1km straight-line from the
> >>> nearest Cabinet. I plan to rely totally on a mobile using a *smart
> >>> phone as a wifi hotspot. Unlimited calls/texts and some data for, at
> >>> least for a while, 49p/month! Long term, for less than £5 a month - way
> >>> less than Plusnet's £25+ offer to renew.
> >>>
> >>> "Incidentally, Plusnet are offering me Data only - but it costs more
> >>> than data + telephone. Perhaps I've missed something?
> >>>
> >>> "My latest Plusnet profile is 9Mbps. It drops to about 3MBps at busy
> >>> times. Way less than the "expected 16 to 31 Mbps" estimate at the last
> >>> Plusnet renewal. The mobile does data at about 14 - 15 Mbps.
> >>>
> >>> "This is from August onwards. O2(Lycamobile) and Vodaphone(Lebara)'s 4G
> >>> one-bar signal holds up in the house. Better Mbps upstairs than down**.
> >>> Wifi works throughout the house with the smart phone at the point of
> >>> best 4G signal.
> >>>
> >>> "Can anyone see any problems I haven't thought of?"
> >>>
> >>> Just thought of a possible problem.
> >>>
> >>> What will my SAMSUNG S5s do when 3G is switched off?
> >>>
> >>> At present, the S5 falls back to 3G - which only (at present) means that
> >>> the Data rate drops back from 14Mbps to about 3Mbps. But with 3G gone?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> PA
> >>>
> >>> Talkmobile 70G, monthly contract @ £9.95/mo ordered today. Plusnet will
> >>> disconnect 2nd August 2023.
> >>
> >> I've already been doing something similar with a mifi device and a SMARTY
> >> sim - both of which have been mentioned elsewhere. No problems so far.
> >>
> >> It's a four storey house. Best 4G reception is with the mifi on the
> >> top floor: best
> >> wifi coverage is with the mifi in the middle. Bandwidth in that
> >> location is good
> >> enough for me but if I want to squeeze the last drop of performance
> >> out of it
> >> I think placing the mifi on the top floor with a decent wifi
> >> transmitter would help.
> >>
> >> Nick
> >> nicko...@yahoo.ca
> >
> > I've tried a Mifi with a Vodafone (the best signal) SIM. No problem
> > with its WiFi and it could recognise the SIM - but no connect. Also, it
> > wouldn't retain the connect parameters.
> >
> > PA
> >
> Kudos for knowing the correct spelling of storey !!
....and kudos for knowing the correct spelling of kudos!!!

N.

On 10/07/2023 15:49, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 03:32, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 09/07/2023 22:55, Peter Able wrote:
>>> On 09/07/2023 22:01, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Peter Able wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What will my SAMSUNG S5s do when 3G is switched off?
>>>>> At present, the S5 falls back to 3G - which only (at present) means
>>>>> that the Data rate drops back from 14Mbps to about 3Mbps.  But with
>>>>> 3G gone?
>>>>
>>>> The phone is 4G capable, no coverage in your area?
>>>>
>>>> If it can't get 4G, and 3G is gone, it'll drop to GPRS and EDGE
>>>> which are in low hundreds of kbps, and will be painful nowadays ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thanks, Andy,
>>>
>>> S5s are 4G-capable.  Otherwise my project would be SNAFU from the
>>> get-go.  I just don't get good 2G or 4G, although in the optimal
>>> place in the house the 4G can deliver 14-15Mbps and the more-bars 3G
>>> is 5 times slower.
>>
>> A dedicated LTE router[1] with an external antenna would likely give
>> solid 4G all the time.
>>
>> [1] these are pretty cheap these days.
>>
>>> Is "GPRS and EDGE" 2G?
>>
>> Some called Edge 2.5G
>>
>>> I guess it'll be faster than dial-up and still be able to handle
>>> texts and calls.
>>
>> The difficulty is restricting the users of data these days - so much
>> software will think nothing of checking for updates and automatically
>> downloading 10s or 100s of MB when it fancies.
>>
>> I remember the end of the dial up era when your internet connection
>> could be almost unusable for the first 15 mins just with all the
>> competing demands for data suddenly sensing connectivity and letting rip!
>>
>>> Hopefully it won't come to be an issue as the S5 used in this project
>>> will be in a fixed position where I currently get a dot and two bars
>>> on 4G.
>>>
>>> Presumably for others it may be a serious issue?  Quite a precipice
>>> to fall off.  Actually, 2G is not brilliant here. My old GSM (2G?)
>>> T280i sometimes loses sight of O2.  The loss of 3G may well degrade
>>> some of the rooms in this house?
>>
>> Perhaps... it may also push other users to switch to 4G thus putting
>> more load on the service you now depend on.
>>
>>> And if it like that here, where my local railway station is a London
>>> Transport one - how will this pan out for those really in the Styx?
>>
>> Really out in the wilds tends to get priority for FTTP since it is
>> cheaper and easier than trying to run other technologies out (no
>> street cabinets required, no mains power etc). I got the impression
>> that the whole run of FTTP out to our area was probably done by a
>> single chap in about a week...
>>
>>
>>
> All points taken.
>
> As the 4G reception seems to be OK in one part of the house. As that is
> where the Samsung S5 will live.  As its WiFi can reach the other rooms
> in the house, then my sub-£10 S5  will, I hope, will be fit for purpose.
>  If not, it isn't all set in stone!

Worth keeping in mind that you don't have to solve all the problems with
one box. If you get good 4G in one place and good wifi elsewhere, then
you can have a router and separate wifi access point(s) linked via a
cable / homeplug ethernet / meshing wifi etc.

In many places good wifi coverage all over will typically need more than
one wifi access point.

Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 10/07/2023 16:04, Peter Able wrote:
> On 09/07/2023 22:25, SH wrote:
>> On 09/07/2023 21:50, Peter Able wrote:
>>> "I have Plusnet for phone and FTTC at about 1km straight-line from
>>> the nearest Cabinet.  I plan to rely totally on a mobile using a
>>> *smart phone as a wifi hotspot.  Unlimited calls/texts and some data
>>> for, at least for a while, 49p/month!  Long term, for less than £5 a
>>> month - way less than Plusnet's £25+ offer to renew.
>>>
>>> "Incidentally, Plusnet are offering me Data only - but it costs more
>>> than data + telephone.  Perhaps I've missed something?
>>>
>>> "My latest Plusnet profile is 9Mbps. It drops to about 3MBps at busy
>>> times. Way less than the "expected 16 to 31 Mbps" estimate at the
>>> last Plusnet renewal.  The mobile does data at about 14 - 15 Mbps.
>>>
>>> "This is from August onwards. O2(Lycamobile)  and Vodaphone(Lebara)'s
>>> 4G one-bar signal holds up in the house. Better Mbps upstairs than
>>> down**. Wifi works throughout the house with the smart phone at the
>>> point of best 4G signal.
>>>
>>> "Can anyone see any problems I haven't thought of?"
>>>
>>> Just thought of a possible problem.
>>>
>>> What will my SAMSUNG S5s do when 3G is switched off?
>>>
>>> At present, the S5 falls back to 3G - which only (at present) means
>>> that the Data rate drops back from 14Mbps to about 3Mbps.  But with
>>> 3G gone?
>>>
>>>
>>> PA
>>>
>>> Talkmobile 70G, monthly contract @ £9.95/mo ordered today.  Plusnet
>>> will disconnect 2nd August 2023.
>>
>>
>> why not get a 4g router and an external 4g aerial? you will get far
>> more than one bar and a more reliable and robust data connection.
>
> Could do, but I can get 15Mbps with the sub-£10 SAMSUNG S5.  That's
> enough for me.
>
> Just hadn't realised that my 3G safety net was about to vanish!

Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
going - many rely on 3G.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 10/07/2023 16:43, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 17:16, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Peter Able wrote:
>>
>>> my plusnet phone and unlimited broadband is/was £26
>>
>> same here, you don't really need to threaten to leave, just as long as
>> you're willing to extend contract, you should get that sort of price ...
>>
> I didn't even try to haggle!  Just told them that after many years with
> them, I was off.  They actually, off their own bat, refunded me the
> final £26 back.  As I'll now pay £9.95 less £4.90 for the Lebara SIM
> I'll cancel, That's the next five months for free, then £5.05 per mo.
>
> PA
>
Similar with LycaMobile this morning. Just asked for a cancel due to no
service since they switched to EE. Was asked to put the SIM back into
the intended hand-set and try to connect to Lyca - No Connect. Then to
EE - No Connect.

Reckon that Lyca're going to hold on to my 49p ! Look on the bright
side. I didn't want to use EE, so didn't bother to get a SIM from one
of there Brand X sellers. Little did I know that I was going to be
forced onto EE.

Story (no e!) about EE. One of their stores handed over 40 mobiles on
the basis of a phoney order in, apparently, the name of a Limited
Company. One of my late wife's and my Limited Companies. EE's lawyers
came down hard and fast rather than EE contacting us first. A lot of
stress for some time. The Bums.

PA

On 11/07/2023 02:58, John Rumm wrote:

>> Just hadn't realised that my 3G safety net was about to vanish!
>
> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
> going - many rely on 3G.>

It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
parked car has had its fee paid, whether by use of a parking app or
other method. Assuming they aren't going to waste money by employing
parking attendants, ISTM they would have to use CCTV with ANPR. How are
they going to get the video feed back to the server in order to check
and perhaps issue a parking ticket? If there's a video feed, there must
be ample bandwidth to allow payment by card to be used.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

> John Rumm wrote:
>
>> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
>> going - many rely on 3G.
>
> It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
> parked car has had its fee paid

Don't the machines that take cards print a ticket, same as ones that
take coins?

In article <kh7i9lFsmu6U2@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:

> > John Rumm wrote:
> >
> >> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
> >> going - many rely on 3G.
> >
> > It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
> > parked car has had its fee paid

> Don't the machines that take cards print a ticket, same as ones that
> take coins?

They do, but if you "pay by phone", you don't get a ticket. Few phones have
an integral ticket printer.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Don't the machines that take cards print a ticket, same as ones that
>> take coins?
>
> They do, but if you "pay by phone", you don't get a ticket. Few phones have
> an integral ticket printer.

We were told in this instance there was a machine, presumably with pay
by app there is no machine, just a sign? I've never paid by parking app.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 14:41:43 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> charles wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Don't the machines that take cards print a ticket, same as ones that
>>> take coins?
>>
>> They do, but if you "pay by phone", you don't get a ticket. Few phones
>> have an integral ticket printer.
>
> We were told in this instance there was a machine, presumably with pay
> by app there is no machine, just a sign? I've never paid by parking
> app.

Often there is a machine for card or cash as well as the option to pay by
app.

Here in MK there are virtual permits as well. Pay by app and virtual
permits both work by registration number. The car parks are enforced by
people walking around with readers for the number plates, so they have to
(from what I see) check each vehicle for a ticket on the dashboard, or if
none check for a virtual ticket attached to the number.

For example with my EV I can park in any standard rate space, just with
my reg number associated with a "G" permit (which currently is annual and
free!).

nib

On 12/07/2023 12:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
>>> going - many rely on 3G.
>>
>> It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
>> parked car has had its fee paid
>
> Don't the machines that take cards print a ticket, same as ones that
> take coins?
>
At present many car parks offer multiple ways to pay, some of which
produce a ticket, others which don't. So in Stockport you can pay for
your on-street parking by machine, where you get a Ticket, by a phone
call or an app, the RingGo app where you don't get a ticket.

On 12/07/2023 12:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
>>> going - many rely on 3G.
>>
>> It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
>> parked car has had its fee paid
>
> Don't the machines that take cards print a ticket, same as ones that
> take coins?

Probably, but you could have, for example, paid for 1 hour and stayed
all day. How do they check other than with a parking attendant? And if
they employ one of those, why can't the attendant also empty the
machines which use coins?

It seems to me it's a nice little earner for the parking app suppliers
(with maybe a cut to the car park owners - who knows?). This is an
interesting page:
<https://moneytothemasses.com/news/car-parking-apps-how-to-avoid-extra-charges>
For most, you'll be paying a 20p "convenience fee". So the car park
owner saves money on not paying for coin collection, and perhaps having
a card-reading machine. Yet the parking fee isn't only not reduced by
whatever they save, it actually costs you an extra 20p!

--

Jeff

On 12/07/2023 12:40, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 02:58, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>> Just hadn't realised that my 3G safety net was about to vanish!
>>
>> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
>> going - many rely on 3G.>
>
> It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
> parked car has had its fee paid, whether by use of a parking app or
> other method. Assuming they aren't going to waste money by employing
> parking attendants, ISTM they would have to use CCTV with ANPR. How are
> they going to get the video feed back to the server in order to check
> and perhaps issue a parking ticket? If there's a video feed, there must
> be ample bandwidth to allow payment by card to be used.
>

Pay And Display car parks rely on employees who check that vehicles are
covered by a payment by looking at the ticket on display. With
telephone payment they do so by checking the registration number against
the record of payments. The employees need a data connection to do so
but their phones are easier and cheaper to update than a machine - and
less likely to be vandalised.

The same switch was made here years for the council's on-street parking
and residents' parking permits. Enforcement officers now using ANPR on
their phones.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/07/2023 15:23, Robin wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 12:40, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 11/07/2023 02:58, John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>>> Just hadn't realised that my 3G safety net was about to vanish!
>>>
>>> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
>>> going - many rely on 3G.>
>>
>> It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
>> parked car has had its fee paid, whether by use of a parking app or
>> other method. Assuming they aren't going to waste money by employing
>> parking attendants, ISTM they would have to use CCTV with ANPR. How are
>> they going to get the video feed back to the server in order to check
>> and perhaps issue a parking ticket? If there's a video feed, there must
>> be ample bandwidth to allow payment by card to be used.
>>
>
> Pay And Display car parks rely on employees who check that vehicles are
> covered by a payment by looking at the ticket on display. With
> telephone payment they do so by checking the registration number against
> the record of payments. The employees need a data connection to do so
> but their phones are easier and cheaper to update than a machine - and
> less likely to be vandalised.

Well, it makes sense to get away from machines if they're being
vandalised, but I've not seen that often presented as an argument for
removing them. If you're going to get employees to check payment has
been made correctly, then you have to pay those employees, and so can't
use the argument that you don't have to pay employees to empty the coin
machines.

> The same switch was made here years for the council's on-street parking
> and residents' parking permits. Enforcement officers now using ANPR on
> their phones.

I wonder if anything else relating to ANPR is being checked at the same
time - expired road tax licence and/or MOT. There's no parking
restriction in our road, but an 04 plate Toyota van (in decent
condition) outside our house for a couple of weeks had a council notice
put on it that it appeared to be abandoned and would be removed after a
week. I checked online, and its road tax and MOT were valid for several
weeks. We didn't report it to the council and neither did our
neighbours, so we wonder who did.

--

Jeff

In message <u8mb4v$387eo$3@dont-email.me>, nib
<news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> writes

>
>Often there is a machine for card or cash as well as the option to pay by
>app.

Around here, most of the council Pay & Display machines mysteriously
seemed to go out-of-order. The alternative was to pay by RingGo app (or
call some phone number) - and if you couldn't do that, to find an
alternative place to park.

Requiring you to possess a smartphone (or at least an old-type mobile
phone to manually call the alternative number) in order to park really
is an imposition, and should be made unlawful.
>
>
>
>

--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

On 12/07/2023 18:51, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <u8mb4v$387eo$3@dont-email.me>, nib
> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
>>
>> Often there is a machine for card or cash as well as the option to pay by
>> app.
>
> Around here, most of the council Pay & Display machines mysteriously
> seemed to go out-of-order. The alternative was to pay by RingGo app (or
> call some phone number) - and if you couldn't do that, to find an
> alternative place to park.
>
> Requiring you to possess a smartphone (or at least an old-type mobile
> phone to manually call the alternative number) in order to park really
> is an imposition, and should be made unlawful.

The UK is, by international standards, very lax about checking that old
people are fit to drive. So there may be logic and merit in
discouraging those who can't manage to pay for parking by app or phone.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/07/2023 18:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 15:23, Robin wrote:
>> On 12/07/2023 12:40, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2023 02:58, John Rumm wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Just hadn't realised that my 3G safety net was about to vanish!
>>>>
>>>> Its one of the reasons that many pay by card parking machines are also
>>>> going - many rely on 3G.>
>>>
>>> It begs the question of exactly how the car park owners know that a
>>> parked car has had its fee paid, whether by use of a parking app or
>>> other method. Assuming they aren't going to waste money by employing
>>> parking attendants, ISTM they would have to use CCTV with ANPR. How are
>>> they going to get the video feed back to the server in order to check
>>> and perhaps issue a parking ticket? If there's a video feed, there must
>>> be ample bandwidth to allow payment by card to be used.
>>>
>>
>> Pay And Display car parks rely on employees who check that vehicles are
>> covered by a payment by looking at the ticket on display.  With
>> telephone payment they do so by checking the registration number against
>> the record of payments.  The employees need a data connection to do so
>> but their phones are easier and cheaper to update than a machine - and
>> less likely to be vandalised.
>
> Well, it makes sense to get away from machines if they're being
> vandalised, but I've not seen that often presented as an argument for
> removing them. If you're going to get employees to check payment has
> been made correctly, then you have to pay those employees, and so can't
> use the argument that you don't have to pay employees to empty the coin
> machines.
>

Cash is different from payment by card. Cash means:

a different job for employees: emptying cash from a machine and taking
it away - a job that puts the employees at risk of being mugged.

the machines attract those who think it's worth bashing them hard with
any available object to see if they can get at the cash;

more things to go wrong

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

The 4G-based system has been up and running for four days now. Seems to
work well. Video streaming without pauses. The only noticeable change
is that I now have a dynamic IP. I can live with that. The monthly
data is working out at about 45GByte, so well within the 70GByte contract.

I guess (hope) that the only issue might be if Vodafone and Three merge
and then switch off the Vodafone local system.

Many thanks for the advice given, y'all.

PA

The 4G-based system has been up and running for four days now. Seems to
work well. Video streaming without pauses. The only noticeable change
is that I now have a dynamic IP. I can live with that. The monthly
data is working out at about 45GByte, so well within the 70GByte contract.

I guess (fear) that the only issue might be if Vodafone and Three merge
and then switch off the Vodafone local system.

Many thanks for the advice given, y'all.

PA

On 15/07/2023 15:53, Peter Able wrote:
> The 4G-based system has been up and running for four days now.  Seems to
> work well.  Video streaming without pauses.  The only noticeable change
> is that I now have a dynamic IP.  I can live with that.  The monthly
> data is working out at about 45GByte, so well within the 70GByte contract.

>
> I guess (hope) that the only issue might be if Vodafone and Three merge
> and then switch off the Vodafone local system.
>
> Many thanks for the advice given, y'all.
>
> PA
>

On 15/07/2023 15:53, Peter Able wrote:
> The 4G-based system has been up and running for four days now.  Seems to
> work well.  Video streaming without pauses.  The only noticeable change
> is that I now have a dynamic IP.  I can live with that.  The monthly
> data is working out at about 45GByte, so well within the 70GByte contract.#

It is possible to have a Static IP on a SIM, Andrews and Arnold offer one.

Alternatively there are services like no-ip, DynDNS, etc to route to you
a dynamic IP.

> I guess (hope) that the only issue might be if Vodafone and Three merge
> and then switch off the Vodafone local system.

I would imagine the final entity keeping the VODA towers in areas where
Three coverage is poor.

> Many thanks for the advice given, y'all.
>
> PA
>

On 15/07/2023 18:04, SH wrote:
> On 15/07/2023 15:53, Peter Able wrote:
>> The 4G-based system has been up and running for four days now.  Seems
>> to work well.  Video streaming without pauses.  The only noticeable
>> change is that I now have a dynamic IP.  I can live with that.  The
>> monthly data is working out at about 45GByte, so well within the
>> 70GByte contract.#
>
> It is possible to have a Static IP on a SIM,  Andrews and Arnold offer one.
>
> Alternatively there are services like no-ip, DynDNS, etc to route to you
> a dynamic IP.

Is it really JUST a dynamic IP or a non-routable CGNAT IP?
I understand Vodafone generally use CGNAT on its 4g service
CGNAT has its own reserved IP range between 100.64.0.0 and
100.127.255.255. So if you have an IP address in that range the above
mentioned services are no use.

More info here:-

https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/blog/what-is-cgnat

You can probably also live with that...

>
>
>> I guess (hope) that the only issue might be if Vodafone and Three
>> merge and then switch off the Vodafone local system.
>
> I would imagine the final entity keeping the VODA towers in areas where
> Three coverage is poor.
>
>> Many thanks for the advice given, y'all.
>>
>> PA
>>
>

Dave