On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:50:02 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:48:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On 06/01/2024 20:19, Colin Bignell wrote:
> The top layer on British roads is simply there to take wear.
It is alsos to waterproof.

>The much
> thicker layer below that is also waterproof, either asphalt or concrete,
> and the compacted MOT* is below that.

On better more recent roads perhaps. Not on what we have here.

Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
and tar on top

>
> * A mix of different materials to Ministry Of Transport specifications.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 20:19, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> The top layer on British roads is simply there to take wear.
> It is alsos to waterproof.
>
>> The much thicker layer below that is also waterproof, either asphalt
>> or concrete, and the compacted MOT* is below that.
>
> On better more recent roads perhaps.

I was able to see the structure of my road, built in 1931, when they
laid new gas mains. It has four inches of unreinforced concrete as the
main road layer.

> Not on what we have here.
>
> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
> and tar on top

That sounds like the sort of road that gives rise to the concerns raised.

>> * A mix of different materials to Ministry Of Transport specifications.
>

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 00:21:27 +1100, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/01/2024 20:19, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> The top layer on British roads is simply there to take wear.
>> It is alsos to waterproof.
>>
>>> The much thicker layer below that is also waterproof, either asphalt
>>> or concrete, and the compacted MOT* is below that.
>> On better more recent roads perhaps.
>
> I was able to see the structure of my road, built in 1931, when they
> laid new gas mains. It has four inches of unreinforced concrete as the
> main road layer.

Roads arent done like that anymore so that's irrelevant to POTHOLES

>> Not on what we have here.

>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
>> and tar on top

> That sounds like the sort of road that gives rise to the concerns raised.

>>> * A mix of different materials to Ministry Of Transport specifications.

On 05/01/2024 10:08 am, GB wrote:

> On 05/01/2024 09:56, Jethro_uk wrote:

>> I recently read a suggestion that some potholes in the UK may be due to
>> the action of EV acceleration.

>> If true it's a good reason to tax them more.
>
> How many potholes? Unless you can put figures on the cost of repair, you
> have no idea how much extra to tax them. It could just be a fraction of
> a penny.

Why would it be necessary to (accurately or otherwise) calculate the cost?

No-one has ever done that for any other sort of vehicle.

They've just piled on the tax and left it at that.

On 07/01/2024 18:00, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 00:21:27 +1100, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/01/2024 20:19, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> The top layer on British roads is simply there to take wear.
>>> It is alsos to waterproof.
>>>
>>>> The much thicker layer below that is also waterproof, either asphalt
>>>> or concrete, and the compacted MOT* is below that.
>>>  On better more recent roads perhaps.
>>
>> I was able to see the structure of my road, built in 1931, when they
>> laid new gas mains. It has four inches of unreinforced concrete as the
>> main road layer.
>
> Roads arent done like that anymore so that's irrelevant to POTHOLES

Indeed. The current specification for unreinforced concrete would
require a minimum of 150mm of concrete. My road doesn't have any
potholes though, despite being below current specifications.

>
>>> Not on what we have here.
>
>>>  Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>> gravel and tar on top
>
>> That sounds like the sort of road that gives rise to the concerns raised.
>
>>>> * A mix of different materials to Ministry Of Transport specifications.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 05:00:42 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

<snip>

> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
> and tar on top

Don't think tar is used much nowadays.

--
Cheers
Clive

Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote
>>>> Colin Bignell wrote

>>>>> The top layer on British roads is simply there to take wear.

>>>> It is alsos to waterproof.

>>>>> The much thicker layer below that is also waterproof, either asphalt
>>>>> or concrete, and the compacted MOT* is below that.

>>>> On better more recent roads perhaps.

>>> I was able to see the structure of my road, built in 1931, when they
>>> laid new gas mains. It has four inches of unreinforced concrete as the
>>> main road layer.

>> Roads aren't done like that anymore so that's irrelevant to POTHOLES

> Indeed. The current specification for unreinforced concrete would
> require a minimum of 150mm of concrete. My road doesn't have any
> potholes though, despite being below current specifications.

Irrelevant to what current potholes are caused by.

>>>> Not on what we have here.

>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sandand a inch or two of gravel
>>>> and tar on top

>>> That sounds like the sort of roadthat gives rise to the concerns
>>> raised.

>>>>> * A mix of different materials to Ministry Of Transport
>>>>> specifications.

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
>> and tar on top
>
> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.

You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
house and when current roads are retarred after decades.

On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
>>> and tar on top
>>
>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>
> You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.

Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?

Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.

--
Cheers
Clive

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 08:57:44 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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--
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"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94Fb4a4U1@mid.individual.net>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:05:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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--
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spelling:
"Learn to spell, imbecile. And while you're about it learn to mind your
own business as well."
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On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:38:39 +1100, Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
>>>> and tar on top
>>>
>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>> You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.

> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?

Didnt realise you were making a distinction and I don't believe that the
Turnip was doing that.

> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.

On 07/01/2024 23:50, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:38:39 +1100, Clive Arthur
> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>>>> gravel and tar on top
>>>>
>>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>>>  You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.
>
>> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?
>
> Didnt realise you were making a distinction and I don't believe that the
> Turnip was doing that.

Warwickshire CC describe bitumen emulsion as a sticky tar-like substance

https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/surfacedressing

>
>> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 11:00:42 +1100, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

> On 07/01/2024 23:50, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:38:39 +1100, Clive Arthur
>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>>>>> gravel and tar on top
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.

>>>> You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>>>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>>>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.

>>> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?

>> Didnt realise you were making a distinction andI don't believe that the
>> Turnip was doing that.

> Warwickshire CC describe bitumen emulsion as a sticky tar-like substance

> https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/surfacedressing

Yeah, that's why I wasnt making a distinction.

Its often called a tar seal here, even tho strictly speaking its bitumen.

>>> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.

On 07/01/2024 22:38, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
>>>> and tar on top
>>>
>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>>
>> You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.
>
> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?
>
> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.

Many years ago it seemed to be referred to as asphalt. I can remember
seeing tankers with the name "Trinidad Lake Asphalt" on the side. The
company still exists, but I don't remember seeing the name for maybe 50
years. According to the Wiki on it, the UK switched to coal tar in the
early 70s.

--

Jeff

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 00:00:42 +0000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:

>On 07/01/2024 23:50, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:38:39 +1100, Clive Arthur
>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>>>>> gravel and tar on top
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>>>>  You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>>>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>>>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.
>>
>>> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?
>>
>> Didnt realise you were making a distinction and I don't believe that the
>> Turnip was doing that.
>
>Warwickshire CC describe bitumen emulsion as a sticky tar-like substance
>
>https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/surfacedressing
>
>
>>
>>> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.

The following is instructive:
https://www.hanson.my/en/asphalt-vs-bitumen-vs-tar

Basically it seems that bitumen is derived from oil distillation, tar
comes from coal distillation, and asphalt is when sand, grit or gravel
are mixed with either of the above.

What will they do for road surfacing when 'net-zero' comes along, if
it ever does?

--
Chris

On 08/01/2024 08:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 00:00:42 +0000, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/01/2024 23:50, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:38:39 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>>>>>> gravel and tar on top
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>>>>>  You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>>>>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>>>>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.
>>>
>>>> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?
>>>
>>> Didnt realise you were making a distinction and I don't believe that the
>>> Turnip was doing that.
>>
>> Warwickshire CC describe bitumen emulsion as a sticky tar-like substance
>>
>> https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/surfacedressing
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.
>
> The following is instructive:
> https://www.hanson.my/en/asphalt-vs-bitumen-vs-tar
>
> Basically it seems that bitumen is derived from oil distillation, tar
> comes from coal distillation, and asphalt is when sand, grit or gravel
> are mixed with either of the above.
>
> What will they do for road surfacing when 'net-zero' comes along, if
> it ever does?
>

Oil is the source of the material for wind turbine blades. :-)

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 10:50:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 11:16:57 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On 07/01/2024 19:17, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of gravel
>> and tar on top
>
> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>

What do you think that fucking black shit is, then?

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 07/01/2024 22:38, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>>> gravel and tar on top
>>>
>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>>
>> You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.
>
> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?
>
> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.
>
Tar IS bitumen.

That's why its called TARMAC.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 08/01/2024 08:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 00:00:42 +0000, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/01/2024 23:50, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:38:39 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/01/2024 22:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 06:17:30 +1100, Clive Arthur
>>>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 07/01/2024 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Standard is MOT type 1, blinded with sand and a inch or two of
>>>>>>> gravel and tar on top
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't think tar is used much nowadays.
>>>>>  You'd be wrong. I have watched it being used for the
>>>>> final work on the roads in the new estates close to my
>>>>> house and when current roads are retarred after decades.
>>>
>>>> Are you able to distinguish tar from bitumen?
>>>
>>> Didnt realise you were making a distinction and I don't believe that the
>>> Turnip was doing that.
>>
>> Warwickshire CC describe bitumen emulsion as a sticky tar-like substance
>>
>> https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/surfacedressing
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Certainly here (UK), tar is only used in exceptional circumstances.
>
> The following is instructive:
> https://www.hanson.my/en/asphalt-vs-bitumen-vs-tar
>
> Basically it seems that bitumen is derived from oil distillation, tar
> comes from coal distillation, and asphalt is when sand, grit or gravel
> are mixed with either of the above.
>
> What will they do for road surfacing when 'net-zero' comes along, if
> it ever does?
>
Well I have never heard that distinction made.

To me 'Tar' is a generic cover all term for extremely thick hydrocarbons.
There is no such place as the Athabasca Bitumen sands. They are called
the Athabasca *Tar* sands. And they are made of bitumen, or tar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

If you want coal derived hydrocarbons that is *coal tar*.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_tar

The reason it's called *coal* tar is to distinguish it from *oil* tar...

Tar is a generic word.

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.