On 02/04/2023 12:57, John Williamson wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 12:06, Tone wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 11:04, John Williamson wrote:
>>> I do own a smart card reader I use to read my Tachograph card, and if
>>> ICBA, I could probably get summat off the Dark Web to get the details
>>> off the card.
>>
>> I totally unforget the outcry when manual tachos came in. "The spy in
>> the cab" they were called! Even wrote a song about it!
>>
> I started driving just before the change from log books. The older guys
> hated them, us young un's saw them as a way to stop the boss telling us
> to work all the hours God sent us.
>
>> But for many years we treated tacho cards with contempt. I always had my
>> own box of them, and frequently threw old ones out of the window.
>> 'Frizbies' we called 'em.
>>
> <Grin> I still do call 'em that.
>
>> I constantly unremembered to change over the mode to 'break', or fill in
>> personal details.
>>
> The later ones had a semi automatic mode, so most of us leave the mode
> switch on rest, and when you start moving it triggers the driving mode
> until your stop.
>
> I has worsd with a cop in Germany once, and he kindly filled the details
> in for me, and then charged me for doing it. (I'd cut it a bit tight at
> the hotel that morning in Belgium, and all I'd written in was the start
> mileage.)
>
>> Never worked with digital tachos. I came off the road in 1999. But I
>> imagine they are a nightmare, giving you no leeway whatsoever?
>>
> You and the bosses learn to live within the rules. It's not only the
> Ministry that check them, either. The boss has the same machine I do,
> but his can read more detail than I paid for. He can also download the
> head data, which includes speed data for the previous 24 hours of
> driving time, if there's a report of a problem.
>
> Not long after the digital tachos came in and all the hours rules
> changed, I was asked to re-write the Ministry advice so drivers could
> understand it. We never had any problems after that. I even told the
> boss off when she got it wrong. (About as often as I told a fellow
> driver that, "Yes, they *are* allowed to ask you to do that")
>
>> Do you still have to register break periods manually or does it assume
>> when the wheels aren't turning, that you are on a break? What happens if
>> you are stuck in a traffic queueueue on the M6?
>>
> That depends on the type of head unit and the way it is set. Most of
> them can be left on rest, and only register that and driving. Others
> have "other work" as the default, and you need to tell them that, no you
> *are* on a break now. I keep getting sarky letters from the boss about
> those, as I don't have the correct habits. Some operators also expect us
> to use the "Out of scope" driving mode when we're mixing private hire
> and contract or stage carriage work in the same day or week.
>
>> Of course most of our 'breaks' were actually loading and unloading and
>> roping and sheeting times, so not 'breaks' at all.
>>
> That still happens. For us, cleaning the coach and doing paperwork while
> we're hanging round is, legally speaking, work. There's even a mode for
> when we are not actually on a legally required break and are just
> hanging round, gassing or sleeping. Err, sorry, waiting anxiously for
> our passengers to return. ;-)
>
>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>
> You get used to it, and I find it helpful if I'm stuck and the boss can
> call the client to warn them I'm going to be late. I've even had more
> friends use the dashcam as defence than to prove they were in the wrong.
> It's even been known for the tacho record to get a driver off a speeding
> fine or parking ticket as well as get an insurance claim enforced
> against an idiot driver that hit him and claimed the opposite.
>
>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>
> I still am treated that way, though sweet talking the inspectors is more
> effective than bribes. I've got away with a few problems that could have
> cost me a fortune with a glib excuse. (13 hours driving and an 18 hour
> day going from Stoke on Trent to Paris.) ;-)
>
>> Much better days.
>>
> Yes and no. The job has changed, with more stress when driving, and
> stricter rules, but do I want to go back to brakes and steering that
> were more of a hope than a certainty and working so long I had to stop
> for a nap before I fell asleep at the wheel? Not so much. The job for me
> is still the same as it's been for the last 45 years. Keep the
> passengers happy and safe. The only change has been the tools. Even the
> passengers are still the same mix of annoying and great people.
>
> Occasionally you find a boss who's a right @rse, but I've learned to
> avoid those.
>
>

All very interesting, Chris, John.

Yes, I too was in an accident on the A1 Grantham by-pass when an RAF
pilot in an open MG sports car crossed roadworks outside a filling
station, looked right when he should have looked left, and pulled out
right in front of me.

He got a hole in his head. We had heavy crash bars on our trucks. He
wasn't wearing a seatbelt. But his mate, who had just pulled out before
him came back and claimed I was speeding. It was my fault.

The ecilop checked my card, that said I was doing the the legal 40mph,
so that ended the matter. Yes, point taken, but I think that was the
only time it worked in my favour.

OTOH aren't a lot of accidents where trucks run off the road, or slam
into the back of motorway queueueues with fatal consequences, caused by
drivers falling asleep because they are not allowed to stop until their
driving time is up? If they do they get the phonecall demanding to know why.

In my day if you felt drowsy you stopped and got you head down over the
wheel for half an hour. You were them good for another shift!

Also delivery schedules are usually now unrealistic unless the roads are
empty. They were glad to see us when we arrived, whenever that was.
There were no delivery schedules. "Just get there soon as you can!"

Tone

On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:09:17 -0000 (UTC)
Julian Macassey <julian@n6are.com> wrote:

> Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
> executives?

Easily done, hang around near the golf course with a shotgnu
microphone and binoculars.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 02/04/2023 13:23, Tone wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 12:57, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 12:06, Tone wrote:
>>> On 02/04/2023 11:04, John Williamson wrote:
>>>> I do own a smart card reader I use to read my Tachograph card, and if
>>>> ICBA, I could probably get summat off the Dark Web to get the details
>>>> off the card.
>>>
>>> I totally unforget the outcry when manual tachos came in. "The spy in
>>> the cab" they were called! Even wrote a song about it!
>>>
>> I started driving just before the change from log books. The older
>> guys hated them, us young un's saw them as a way to stop the boss
>> telling us to work all the hours God sent us.
>>
>>> But for many years we treated tacho cards with contempt. I always had my
>>> own box of them, and frequently threw old ones out of the window.
>>> 'Frizbies' we called 'em.
>>>
>> <Grin> I still do call 'em that.
>>
>>> I constantly unremembered to change over the mode to 'break', or fill in
>>> personal details.
>>>
>> The later ones had a semi automatic mode, so most of us leave the mode
>> switch on rest, and when you start moving it triggers the driving mode
>> until your stop.
>>
>> I has worsd with a cop in Germany once, and he kindly filled the
>> details in for me, and then charged me for doing it. (I'd cut it a bit
>> tight at the hotel that morning in Belgium, and all I'd written in was
>> the start mileage.)
>>
>>> Never worked with digital tachos. I came off the road in 1999. But I
>>> imagine they are a nightmare, giving you no leeway whatsoever?
>>>
>> You and the bosses learn to live within the rules. It's not only the
>> Ministry that check them, either. The boss has the same machine I do,
>> but his can read more detail than I paid for. He can also download the
>> head data, which includes speed data for the previous 24 hours of
>> driving time, if there's a report of a problem.
>>
>> Not long after the digital tachos came in and all the hours rules
>> changed, I was asked to re-write the Ministry advice so drivers could
>> understand it. We never had any problems after that. I even told the
>> boss off when she got it wrong. (About as often as I told a fellow
>> driver that, "Yes, they *are* allowed to ask you to do that")
>>
>>> Do you still have to register break periods manually or does it assume
>>> when the wheels aren't turning, that you are on a break? What happens if
>>> you are stuck in a traffic queueueue on the M6?
>>>
>> That depends on the type of head unit and the way it is set. Most of
>> them can be left on rest, and only register that and driving. Others
>> have "other work" as the default, and you need to tell them that, no
>> you *are* on a break now. I keep getting sarky letters from the boss
>> about those, as I don't have the correct habits. Some operators also
>> expect us to use the "Out of scope" driving mode when we're mixing
>> private hire and contract or stage carriage work in the same day or week.
>>
>>> Of course most of our 'breaks' were actually loading and unloading and
>>> roping and sheeting times, so not 'breaks' at all.
>>>
>> That still happens. For us, cleaning the coach and doing paperwork
>> while we're hanging round is, legally speaking, work. There's even a
>> mode for when we are not actually on a legally required break and are
>> just hanging round, gassing or sleeping. Err, sorry, waiting anxiously
>> for our passengers to return. ;-)
>>
>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>
>> You get used to it, and I find it helpful if I'm stuck and the boss
>> can call the client to warn them I'm going to be late. I've even had
>> more friends use the dashcam as defence than to prove they were in the
>> wrong. It's even been known for the tacho record to get a driver off a
>> speeding fine or parking ticket as well as get an insurance claim
>> enforced against an idiot driver that hit him and claimed the opposite.
>>
>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>
>> I still am treated that way, though sweet talking the inspectors is
>> more effective than bribes. I've got away with a few problems that
>> could have cost me a fortune with a glib excuse. (13 hours driving and
>> an 18 hour day going from Stoke on Trent to Paris.) ;-)
>>
>>> Much better days.
>>>
>> Yes and no. The job has changed, with more stress when driving, and
>> stricter rules, but do I want to go back to brakes and steering that
>> were more of a hope than a certainty and working so long I had to stop
>> for a nap before I fell asleep at the wheel? Not so much. The job for
>> me is still the same as it's been for the last 45 years. Keep the
>> passengers happy and safe. The only change has been the tools. Even
>> the passengers are still the same mix of annoying and great people.
>>
>> Occasionally you find a boss who's a right @rse, but I've learned to
>> avoid those.
>>
>>
>
> All very interesting, Chris, John.
>
> Yes, I too was in an accident on the A1 Grantham by-pass when an RAF
> pilot in an open MG sports car crossed roadworks outside a filling
> station, looked right when he should have looked left, and pulled out
> right in front of me.
>
> He got a hole in his head. We had heavy crash bars on our trucks. He
> wasn't wearing a seatbelt. But his mate, who had just pulled out before
> him came back and claimed I was speeding. It was my fault.
>
> The ecilop checked my card, that said I was doing the the legal 40mph,
> so that ended the matter. Yes, point taken, but I think that was the
> only time it worked in my favour.
>
I can count the total of both on one hand for me in 45 years, but I've
also been in the office and it has worked both ways for drivers under my
control quite a few times.

> OTOH aren't a lot of accidents where trucks run off the road, or slam
> into the back of motorway queueueues with fatal consequences, caused by
> drivers falling asleep because they are not allowed to stop until their
> driving time is up? If they do they get the phonecall demanding to know
> why.
>
There used to be (Still may be, I moved off that route decades ago) a
short stretch of road where most mornings there was a shunt as a dozy
lightly loaded driver failed to notice that the one in front of him had
slowed down on a steep climb after a steep drop. (M1 junction 9,
Southbound, where they had all driven non-stop from Holyhead or Stranraer)

Eastern European drivers have been known to speak to the cops in Kent
asking for a check so they could get some sleep after driving for 20
hours or so with their only break being on the ferry. "Cops have got the
keys" is apparently the only acceptable reason to be parked up for 9 hours.

> In my day if you felt drowsy you stopped and got you head down over the
> wheel for half an hour. You were them good for another shift!
>
I can safely do just over four hours per hour of nap, and have often
done so on a two driver job. which is handy when on the way back from a
ski trip.

I do, though always agree with the other driver before we leave that
even if it's only been an hour since our last swap, if either of us
feels even the slightest bit drowsy, we wake the other one up and swap
at the next services. I've done this ever since I had to almost prize
the other guy out of the seat when he insisted that he was going to
"finish my two hours". War of the Worlds flat out on the earbuds saved
us that night, as I drove the 4 hours to breakfast.

> Also delivery schedules are usually now unrealistic unless the roads are
> empty. They were glad to see us when we arrived, whenever that was.
> There were no delivery schedules. "Just get there soon as you can!"
>
>
We have that as well, though most clients will accept traffic as a
reason to be late, especially if they are on board at the time. The
worst problem is on rail replacement when people don't understand that a
train goes from A to B in more or less a straight line with a speed
limit that's about double what we are allowed to, but can't even thing
of, doing while wriggling down country lanes to get to their station.
They don't care what our timetable says, they have a copy of the train
timetable in their heads and we are invariably late.

On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:

> Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
> executives?
>
When the opposition can no longer afford to hide the cameras.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 02/04/2023 14:02, John Williamson wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 13:23, Tone wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 12:57, John Williamson wrote:
>>> On 02/04/2023 12:06, Tone wrote:
>>>> On 02/04/2023 11:04, John Williamson wrote:
>>>>> I do own a smart card reader I use to read my Tachograph card, and if
>>>>> ICBA, I could probably get summat off the Dark Web to get the details
>>>>> off the card.
>>>>
>>>> I totally unforget the outcry when manual tachos came in. "The spy in
>>>> the cab" they were called! Even wrote a song about it!
>>>>
>>> I started driving just before the change from log books. The older
>>> guys hated them, us young un's saw them as a way to stop the boss
>>> telling us to work all the hours God sent us.
>>>
>>>> But for many years we treated tacho cards with contempt. I always
>>>> had my
>>>> own box of them, and frequently threw old ones out of the window.
>>>> 'Frizbies' we called 'em.
>>>>
>>> <Grin> I still do call 'em that.
>>>
>>>> I constantly unremembered to change over the mode to 'break', or
>>>> fill in
>>>> personal details.
>>>>
>>> The later ones had a semi automatic mode, so most of us leave the mode
>>> switch on rest, and when you start moving it triggers the driving mode
>>> until your stop.
>>>
>>> I has worsd with a cop in Germany once, and he kindly filled the
>>> details in for me, and then charged me for doing it. (I'd cut it a bit
>>> tight at the hotel that morning in Belgium, and all I'd written in was
>>> the start mileage.)
>>>
>>>> Never worked with digital tachos. I came off the road in 1999. But I
>>>> imagine they are a nightmare, giving you no leeway whatsoever?
>>>>
>>> You and the bosses learn to live within the rules. It's not only the
>>> Ministry that check them, either. The boss has the same machine I do,
>>> but his can read more detail than I paid for. He can also download the
>>> head data, which includes speed data for the previous 24 hours of
>>> driving time, if there's a report of a problem.
>>>
>>> Not long after the digital tachos came in and all the hours rules
>>> changed, I was asked to re-write the Ministry advice so drivers could
>>> understand it. We never had any problems after that. I even told the
>>> boss off when she got it wrong. (About as often as I told a fellow
>>> driver that, "Yes, they *are* allowed to ask you to do that")
>>>
>>>> Do you still have to register break periods manually or does it assume
>>>> when the wheels aren't turning, that you are on a break? What
>>>> happens if
>>>> you are stuck in a traffic queueueue on the M6?
>>>>
>>> That depends on the type of head unit and the way it is set. Most of
>>> them can be left on rest, and only register that and driving. Others
>>> have "other work" as the default, and you need to tell them that, no
>>> you *are* on a break now. I keep getting sarky letters from the boss
>>> about those, as I don't have the correct habits. Some operators also
>>> expect us to use the "Out of scope" driving mode when we're mixing
>>> private hire and contract or stage carriage work in the same day or
>>> week.
>>>
>>>> Of course most of our 'breaks' were actually loading and unloading and
>>>> roping and sheeting times, so not 'breaks' at all.
>>>>
>>> That still happens. For us, cleaning the coach and doing paperwork
>>> while we're hanging round is, legally speaking, work. There's even a
>>> mode for when we are not actually on a legally required break and are
>>> just hanging round, gassing or sleeping. Err, sorry, waiting anxiously
>>> for our passengers to return. ;-)
>>>
>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>>
>>> You get used to it, and I find it helpful if I'm stuck and the boss
>>> can call the client to warn them I'm going to be late. I've even had
>>> more friends use the dashcam as defence than to prove they were in the
>>> wrong. It's even been known for the tacho record to get a driver off a
>>> speeding fine or parking ticket as well as get an insurance claim
>>> enforced against an idiot driver that hit him and claimed the opposite.
>>>
>>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>>
>>> I still am treated that way, though sweet talking the inspectors is
>>> more effective than bribes. I've got away with a few problems that
>>> could have cost me a fortune with a glib excuse. (13 hours driving and
>>> an 18 hour day going from Stoke on Trent to Paris.) ;-)
>>>
>>>> Much better days.
>>>>
>>> Yes and no. The job has changed, with more stress when driving, and
>>> stricter rules, but do I want to go back to brakes and steering that
>>> were more of a hope than a certainty and working so long I had to stop
>>> for a nap before I fell asleep at the wheel? Not so much. The job for
>>> me is still the same as it's been for the last 45 years. Keep the
>>> passengers happy and safe. The only change has been the tools. Even
>>> the passengers are still the same mix of annoying and great people.
>>>
>>> Occasionally you find a boss who's a right @rse, but I've learned to
>>> avoid those.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> All very interesting, Chris, John.
>>
>> Yes, I too was in an accident on the A1 Grantham by-pass when an RAF
>> pilot in an open MG sports car crossed roadworks outside a filling
>> station, looked right when he should have looked left, and pulled out
>> right in front of me.
>>
>> He got a hole in his head. We had heavy crash bars on our trucks. He
>> wasn't wearing a seatbelt. But his mate, who had just pulled out before
>> him came back and claimed I was speeding. It was my fault.
>>
>> The ecilop checked my card, that said I was doing the the legal 40mph,
>> so that ended the matter. Yes, point taken, but I think that was the
>> only time it worked in my favour.
>>
> I can count the total of both on one hand for me in 45 years, but I've
> also been in the office and it has worked both ways for drivers under my
> control quite a few times.
>
>> OTOH aren't a lot of accidents where trucks run off the road, or slam
>> into the back of motorway queueueues with fatal consequences, caused by
>> drivers falling asleep because they are not allowed to stop until their
>> driving time is up? If they do they get the phonecall demanding to know
>> why.
>>
> There used to be (Still may be, I moved off that route decades ago) a
> short stretch of road where most mornings there was a shunt as a dozy
> lightly loaded driver failed to notice that the one in front of him had
> slowed down on a steep climb after a steep drop. (M1 junction 9,
> Southbound, where they had all driven non-stop from Holyhead or Stranraer)
>
> Eastern European drivers have been known to speak to the cops in Kent
> asking for a check so they could get some sleep after driving for 20
> hours or so with their only break being on the ferry. "Cops have got the
> keys" is apparently the only acceptable reason to be parked up for 9 hours.
>
>> In my day if you felt drowsy you stopped and got you head down over the
>> wheel for half an hour. You were them good for another shift!
>>
> I can safely do just over four hours per hour of nap, and have often
> done so on a two driver job. which is handy when on the way back from a
> ski trip.
>
> I do, though always agree with the other driver before we leave that
> even if it's only been an hour since our last swap, if either of us
> feels even the slightest bit drowsy, we wake the other one up and swap
> at the next services. I've done this ever since I had to almost prize
> the other guy out of the seat when he insisted that he was going to
> "finish my two hours". War of the Worlds flat out on the earbuds saved
> us that night, as I drove the 4 hours to breakfast.
>
>> Also delivery schedules are usually now unrealistic unless the roads are
>> empty. They were glad to see us when we arrived, whenever that was.
>> There were no delivery schedules. "Just get there soon as you can!"
>>
>>
> We have that as well, though most clients will accept traffic as a
> reason to be late, especially if they are on board at the time. The
> worst problem is on rail replacement when people don't understand that a
> train goes from A to B in more or less a straight line with a speed
> limit that's about double what we are allowed to, but can't even thing
> of, doing while wriggling down country lanes to get to their station.
> They don't care what our timetable says, they have a copy of the train
> timetable in their heads and we are invariably late.
>
>

On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 14:31:05 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>
> We had one run in St Albans that gave us a 20 minute break at t'other
> end, but it always ran late, so usually we turned around straight away
> to make up time. But one morning I was hung over and need the break, so
> I took it and drank my coffee out of my flask, even though I was late.
>
> When I eventually got to the first stop a guy really tore into me for
> being a lazy c*nt. He demanded that I should drive to the book!

No doubt one of that sub-species that is rude to waiters,
"People who shouldn't have servants" as my mum would say, I can add
that they shouldn't have staff either. Fuck these people.

--
"We can’t be successful unless we lie to customers.” Larry
Ellison to Bruce Scott.

On 02/04/2023 14:31, Tone wrote:

> It was about then that I decided I wasn't a suitable driver for human
> cattle, and went back to low loader work, that I love. Machines can be a
> pain in the arse, but they don't complain about you!
>
I've managed to dodge bus driving, and rather than take what was then
the usual route from junior to senior bus driver, then promotion to
coaches when someone died, I went straight in on the coaches, and on the
work I've been doing since, almost everyone was on their way to have a
good time, which is great. Until the alcohol kicks in...

I got talked into running a tram replacement service in Manchester not
that long ago, and two of my colleagues did the training days, did one
day of running round being moaned at by inspectors and public alike and
"forgot" to come in for the rest of the week. I was tempted, but as I'd
agreed and it was only for a week, I put up with it. The boss was left
in no doubt at all that next time he wanted summat like that covering,
he'd be doing it on his own. One of the very few times anyone has heard
me swear at work.

I'm now with a company that only does local work, and I mostly seem to
work with one school with special needs kids, who can be hard work, but
at least they are doing the best they can. They also carry football
supporters which gives me a guaranteed and agreed day off.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 02/04/2023 17:16, John Williamson wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 14:31, Tone wrote:
>
>> It was about then that I decided I wasn't a suitable driver for human
>> cattle, and went back to low loader work, that I love. Machines can be a
>> pain in the arse, but they don't complain about you!
>>
> I've managed to dodge bus driving, and rather than take what was then
> the usual route from junior to senior bus driver, then promotion to
> coaches when someone died, I went straight in on the coaches, and on the
> work I've been doing since, almost everyone was on their way to have a
> good time, which is great. Until the alcohol kicks in...
>
> I got talked into running a tram replacement service in Manchester not
> that long ago, and two of my colleagues did the training days, did one
> day of running round being moaned at by inspectors  and public alike and
> "forgot" to come in for the rest of the week. I was tempted, but as I'd
> agreed and it was only for a week, I put up with it. The boss was left
> in no doubt at all that next time he wanted summat like that covering,
> he'd be doing it on his own. One of the very few times anyone has heard
> me swear at work.
>
> I'm now with a company that only does local work, and I mostly seem to
> work with one school with special needs kids, who can be hard work, but
> at least they are doing the best they can. They also carry football
> supporters which gives me a guaranteed and agreed day off.
>
>

When I had my low loader job lined up I tried to get London Country to
sack me, but no matter what I did, they were so short of drivers, they
wouldn't! I would have to work my notice.

As I was unhappy on local routes they had put me on Green Line coaches,
the Luton Airport, Heathrow, Gatwick run. That always ran about an hour
late. We were told to do what we could to make up time, so on the next
run I came in on time.

"How did you do that?" I was asked.
"Missed out Heathrow!" I told 'em.

Still they didn't sack me.

My final week was a week of 'Swingers' (not swingers!) This was taking
the evening coach from St Albans depot up to Luton Airport, and then
back to St Albans. But it was nearly always empty going up. So, I used
to park it in a lay-by opposite a pub in Harpenden, spend half an hour
in the pub, then I'd drive back empty to St Albans.

Still they didn't sack me.

So I went sick for the rest of my notice.

I had to call in for my final wage packet. I parked the loaded low
loader across the bus yard entrance while I went in for it, then into
the canteen for a cuppa. Drivers kept coming back in and complaining
that they couldn't get their buses out because some mad truck driver had
blocked the depot! I didn't let on it was me until it was time to go,
just before the police arrived.

I think in the end they were glad to get rid of me!

Tone

On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>
>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>
>> Much better days.
>
> Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
> executives?
>

My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
I am sat down.

The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.

Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.

I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...

--
Adrian C

On 2023-04-04, Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>> Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>> executives?

Conrad Black used visit offices of companies he was thinking of buying,
and had a little man with him who would check on the number of toilets
and how busy they were. It was a great indication of how well the
company was run. I think that Conrad is out of pokey again.
>>
>
> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
> I am sat down.

What a great idea for a booby trap!.

>
> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>
> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>
> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...

Move in before someone squats in it. You need a power outlet and
ethernet connections for real fun.

>

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>
>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>
>>> Much better days.
>>
>>     Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>> executives?
>>
>
> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
> I am sat down.
>
> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>
> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>
> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>
Hmm. What triggers the sensor?

If it's weight (like the sensors on car seats which nag you to put your
seatbelt on), then a nicely calculated briefcase or similar device might
extend your "bum on seat" quotient quite nicely.
It might be worth while doing a few experiments to see what is being
measured (is there any output that you can use to judge your success?).

I don't know if you should work on this alone, or engage the collective
ingenuity of your cow-orkers. Offices (and office relationships) have
changed since my day.

--
Sam Plusnet

In article <k92julF4nhfU1@mid.individual.net>, Adrian Caspersz
<email@here.invalid> on Tue, 4 Apr 2023 at 13:36:36 awoke Nicholas from
his slumbers and wrote
>On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>
>> Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>> executives?
>>
>
>My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
>I am sat down.
>
>The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
>additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>
>Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>
>I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>
Are you planning on a change of job? Triggers broom beckons.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>
>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects
>> when I am sat down
>>
> Hmm.  What triggers the sensor?
>
> If it's weight (like the sensors on car seats which nag you to put your
> seatbelt on), then a nicely calculated briefcase or similar device might
> extend your "bum on seat" quotient quite nicely.
> It might be worth while doing a few experiments to see what is being
> measured (is there any output that you can use to judge your success?).
>
> I don't know if you should work on this alone, or engage the collective
> ingenuity of your cow-orkers.  Offices (and office relationships) have
> changed since my day.

Maybe develop some seated rkrepvfrf that will annoy whoever monitors the
sensor, or demand a standing desk?

On 2023-04-04, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>>
>>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>>
>>>> Much better days.
>>>
>>>     Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>>> executives?
>>>
>>
>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
>> I am sat down.
>>
>> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
>> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>>
>> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>>
>> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>>
> Hmm. What triggers the sensor?
>
When I was still driving, my dog would sit on the passenger seat, and
when we would go over a bump, the car seatbelt alarm would go off, so
the seat belts had to be closed. One more idiocy of the modern age.

> If it's weight (like the sensors on car seats which nag you to put your
> seatbelt on), then a nicely calculated briefcase or similar device might
> extend your "bum on seat" quotient quite nicely.
> It might be worth while doing a few experiments to see what is being
> measured (is there any output that you can use to judge your success?).
>
> I don't know if you should work on this alone, or engage the collective
> ingenuity of your cow-orkers. Offices (and office relationships) have
> changed since my day.
>

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-04-05, Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:
> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>>
>>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects
>>> when I am sat down
>>>
>> Hmm.  What triggers the sensor?
>>
>> If it's weight (like the sensors on car seats which nag you to put your
>> seatbelt on), then a nicely calculated briefcase or similar device might
>> extend your "bum on seat" quotient quite nicely.
>> It might be worth while doing a few experiments to see what is being
>> measured (is there any output that you can use to judge your success?).
>>
>> I don't know if you should work on this alone, or engage the collective
>> ingenuity of your cow-orkers.  Offices (and office relationships) have
>> changed since my day.
>
> Maybe develop some seated rkrepvfrf that will annoy whoever monitors the
> sensor, or demand a standing desk?
>
>
A lot of employees are precluded from using one desk every day.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 5/4/23 8:16 am, maus wrote:
> On 2023-04-04, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much better days.
>>>>
>>>>     Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>>>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>>>> executives?
>>>>
>>>
>>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
>>> I am sat down.
>>>
>>> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
>>> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>>>
>>> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>>>
>>> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>>>
>> Hmm. What triggers the sensor?
>>
> When I was still driving, my dog would sit on the passenger seat, and
> when we would go over a bump, the car seatbelt alarm would go off, so
> the seat belts had to be closed. One more idiocy of the modern age.
>

One can't do that any more, a cage/grill is needed. The dog has top be
secured so that it cannot be a risk to everyone's life and limb, and
that precludes the dog wandering freely round the car.

--
Regards,

Bob

Inside every old man is a young man wondering what the hell happened.

On 05/04/2023 11:00, Bob Henson wrote:
>
> One can't do that any more, a cage/grill is needed. The dog has top be
> secured so that it cannot be a risk to everyone's life and limb, and
> that precludes the dog wandering freely round the car.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Bob

Doesn't have to be a cage.

Doesn't say 'must' so not compulsory (yet) but

Highway Code states: “When in a vehicle make sure dogs or other animals
are suitably restrained so they cannot distract you while you are
driving or injure you, or themselves, if you stop quickly. A seat belt
harness, pet carrier, dog cage or dog guard are ways of restraining
animals in cars.”

Tone

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 22:50:37 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>It might be worth while doing a few experiments to see what is being
>measured (is there any output that you can use to judge your success?).

https://youtu.be/R_rF4kcqLkI?t=173

Thomas Prufer

On 2023-04-05, Bob Henson <fake@obfuscation.net> wrote:
> On 5/4/23 8:16 am, maus wrote:
>> On 2023-04-04, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>>>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>>>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>>>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>>>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much better days.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>>>>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>>>>> executives?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
>>>> I am sat down.
>>>>
>>>> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
>>>> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>>>>
>>>> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>>>>
>>>> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>>>>
>>> Hmm. What triggers the sensor?
>>>
>> When I was still driving, my dog would sit on the passenger seat, and
>> when we would go over a bump, the car seatbelt alarm would go off, so
>> the seat belts had to be closed. One more idiocy of the modern age.
>>
>
> One can't do that any more, a cage/grill is needed. The dog has top be
> secured so that it cannot be a risk to everyone's life and limb, and
> that precludes the dog wandering freely round the car.
>

As I wrote, modern idiocy. My dog still likes sitting in the passenger
seat, dribbling, and spotting other dogs outside. When I get a mobility
scooter, (Honda 420!) I will have a place for my dog to sit.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 5/4/23 2:23 pm, maus wrote:
> On 2023-04-05, Bob Henson <fake@obfuscation.net> wrote:
>> On 5/4/23 8:16 am, maus wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-04, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>>>>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>>>>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>>>>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>>>>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much better days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>>>>>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>>>>>> executives?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects when
>>>>> I am sat down.
>>>>>
>>>>> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
>>>>> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>>>>>
>>>> Hmm. What triggers the sensor?
>>>>
>>> When I was still driving, my dog would sit on the passenger seat, and
>>> when we would go over a bump, the car seatbelt alarm would go off, so
>>> the seat belts had to be closed. One more idiocy of the modern age.
>>>
>>
>> One can't do that any more, a cage/grill is needed. The dog has top be
>> secured so that it cannot be a risk to everyone's life and limb, and
>> that precludes the dog wandering freely round the car.
>>
>
>
> As I wrote, modern idiocy. My dog still likes sitting in the passenger
> seat, dribbling, and spotting other dogs outside. When I get a mobility
> scooter, (Honda 420!) I will have a place for my dog to sit.
>

My GrandGreyhound loves trotting alongside my mobility scooter - I'd
need a trailer to have somewhere for him to sit though, and an uprated
battery/motor to tow it. Good luck with the "scooter" - it will
certainly be better than mine cross-country.

--
Regards,

Bob

Inside every old man is a young man wondering what the hell happened.

On 2023-04-05, Bob Henson <fake@obfuscation.net> wrote:
> On 5/4/23 2:23 pm, maus wrote:
>> On 2023-04-05, Bob Henson <fake@obfuscation.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/4/23 8:16 am, maus wrote:
>>>> On 2023-04-04, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>>>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>> scooter, (Honda 420!) I will have a place for my dog to sit.
>>
>
> My GrandGreyhound loves trotting alongside my mobility scooter - I'd
> need a trailer to have somewhere for him to sit though, and an uprated
> battery/motor to tow it. Good luck with the "scooter" - it will
> certainly be better than mine cross-country.
>

My idea exists only in cloud-cuckoo land at moment, and is likely to
remain so.

What a wonderfull picture you paint at the moment, doggie sitting up in
the trailer and looking around. I was sitting in triage the other day,
fell to sleep, and woke up to a Labrador licking my sore foot. Images
from the Bible. Very uplifting. The dogs owner brings the dog around
various departments of the hospital. Wonderfull!

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 04/04/2023 22:50, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>>
>>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>>
>>>> Much better days.
>>>
>>>     Welcome to the surveillance society where we spy on employees
>>> for quality an training. When are we going to start surveilling the
>>> executives?
>>>
>>
>> My expensive city office "hot" desk has a sensor below that detects
>> when I am sat down.
>>
>> The time and motion study guy has been replaced, and loo trips are
>> additionally measured for the amusement of occupational health.
>>
>> Well, bean counters are supposedly maximising use of office space.
>>
>> I've got my eye on a broom cupboard that may be shortly available ...
>>
> Hmm.  What triggers the sensor?
>
> If it's weight (like the sensors on car seats which nag you to put your
> seatbelt on), then a nicely calculated briefcase or similar device might
> extend your "bum on seat" quotient quite nicely.
> It might be worth while doing a few experiments to see what is being
> measured (is there any output that you can use to judge your success?).
>
> I don't know if you should work on this alone, or engage the collective
> ingenuity of your cow-orkers.  Offices (and office relationships) have
> changed since my day.
>
Things like this are just asking to be 'subverted' aren't they?
Think of it as a challenge? An intelligence test? Maybe its a shortcut
to promotion?

Chris

On 5/4/23 4:07 pm, maus wrote:
> On 2023-04-05, Bob Henson <fake@obfuscation.net> wrote:
>> On 5/4/23 2:23 pm, maus wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-05, Bob Henson <fake@obfuscation.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/23 8:16 am, maus wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-04-04, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 04-Apr-23 13:36, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 02/04/2023 13:09, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 12:06:04 +0100, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>>>>>>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>> scooter, (Honda 420!) I will have a place for my dog to sit.
>>>
>>
>> My GrandGreyhound loves trotting alongside my mobility scooter - I'd
>> need a trailer to have somewhere for him to sit though, and an uprated
>> battery/motor to tow it. Good luck with the "scooter" - it will
>> certainly be better than mine cross-country.
>>
>
> My idea exists only in cloud-cuckoo land at moment, and is likely to
> remain so.
>
> What a wonderfull picture you paint at the moment, doggie sitting up in
> the trailer and looking around. I was sitting in triage the other day,
> fell to sleep, and woke up to a Labrador licking my sore foot. Images
> from the Bible. Very uplifting. The dogs owner brings the dog around
> various departments of the hospital. Wonderfull!
>
>

You may see more of that - but the dog may be on the hospital staff! A
great deal of credence is being given and a fair bit of work is being
undertaken into dog's ability to smell disease.

--
Regards,

Bob

Inside every old man is a young man wondering what the hell happened.