"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:98un8gltesn2u00t426j502vhh7qvnduke@4ax.com...

>>I don't really subscribe to the common view that things were better in
>>years gone by. I'm a child of the early sixties, and I can't think of too
>>many things that were better in the past. Certainly the things that are
>>better now outweigh those that have got worse.
>
> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
> rust buckets.

Yes, 1970s cars were appalling for rust, whereas the last two cars I've had
(1999 reg and 2008 reg) have still been rust-free after (respectively) 10
and 13 years.

Build quality of appliances *may* have been better in the past, when metal
rather than plastic was used, and when things were built to be maintained -
they had nice easy screws and they were intuitive to fix. Nowadays the
concept of "repairing" anything that is broken seems to be anathema. Laptops
have always been harder to maintain than desktop PCs, because of
miniaturisation, but they have got worse: they no longer have easy-access
screw panels for replacing/upgrading RAM and HDD, and they no longer have
removable batteries. Goodness knows what you are expected to do when the
battery stops holding its charge, which with all my previous laptops has
happened after about 2 years, despite only connecting the charger until the
battery is full (ie not leaving the laptop on charge 24/7) and despite
trying not to let the battery discharge to lower than some minimum level (eg
10%). Batteries losing their ability to hold any charge is no more than an
annoyance if you can buy a replacement, but it is a major issue if you have
to get someone specialised to break the seal on the heat-sealed/glued case
and then maybe unsolder the dead battery. Same with mobile phones: gone are
the days when you can take the back off to replace the battery. The
inability to get an HDD out of a non-booting laptop is a major problem. In
the past (as long as the HDD isn't encrypted, when all bets are off) you can
remove the HDD, connect it to a caddy and retrieve user data before starting
to reinstall from factory image. Nowadays, if the laptop won't boot you are
stuffed, unless you can boot off a CD or USB image to allow the laptop to
copy its data to an external drive.

> No doubt we are better off materially but socially I'm not so sure.

Socially, I'm sure we have become more selfish and inward-looking (we look
after ourselves and our family, but aren't as good at looking out for
neighbours).

Covid brought out the best and worst in people. Best in the sense of
neighbours checking that each other were OK, both physically and mentally.
When one person managed to book a supermarket slot, particularly in the
early days when they were like gold dust and there were shortages of flour
and loo rolls, they asked neighbours "is there anything you need that I can
add to my order?". Worst in the sense that younger people seemed to think
that the lockdown rules didn't apply to them, and found any excuse for a
mass party in a park or on the beach.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:46:55 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 08:55:03 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 08:06:04 +0100, Jeff Layman
>>>>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30/04/2021 06:47, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>> williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 29/04/2021 21:03, NY wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:if0e7nFcd98U3@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 29/04/2021 11:13, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> We all have to come to terms that the two channels will lose their
>>>>>>>>>>> DTT HD versions, at least medium term
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's all part of the long march back to 405 line black and white.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But without the quality of the programmes of the 405 era ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Never mind the quality, feel the width!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are we sure the 405 era isn?t being remembered unduly fondly? BritBox has
>>>>>>> been very enlightening for me. There?s lots of programmes that I remember
>>>>>>> as being great/good, which on when coming to see them again have proved to
>>>>>>> be very disappointing. Memory plays tricks it seems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think it's a simple as that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My favourite film comics were always Laurel and Hardy. For years I loved
>>>>>> watching their films and laughed my head off at their antics. When the
>>>>>> grandchildren came along, I dug out some of the L & H films on YouTube
>>>>>> to show them, as children love slapstick. Maybe it's because they were
>>>>>> in black and white, which the children weren't used to, but the children
>>>>>> didn't find them funny. I hadn't seen some of these films for years,
>>>>>> and, most surprisingly, I didn't find them particularly funny ether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps my "funny bone" has aged along with all the others, and isn't
>>>>>> what it was!
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the same can happen with music, if you listen to an album you
>>>>> really liked a few years ago.
>>>>>
>>>> I don?t really subscribe to the common view that things were better in
>>>> years gone by. I?m a child of the early sixties, and I can?t think of too
>>>> many things that were better in the past. Certainly the things that are
>>>> better now outweigh those that have got worse.
>>>
>>> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
>>> rust buckets.
>>>
>>> No doubt we are better off materially but socially I'm not so sure.
>>>
>>
>> Socially? Discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation
>> is vastly much reduced. Women’s rights, eg equal pay, much improved.
>> Physical and sexual abuse of spouses and children no longer acceptable.
>> Drink driving no longer acceptable. Deference and “knowing your place” much
>> reduced.
>
> Respect for the needs of older people, knowing and helping neighbours,
> queuing, road rage, observation while walking on the pavement?
>

Having seen the care given to my late 92 year old mother by both the NHS
and the local authority, I have nothing but admiration for the attention
given to her needs.

Lockdown seems to have brought out the best in the majority of people. We
speak to our neighbours and we’ve been shopping for those shielding.
Judging by the number of people on the RVS volunteer app, thousands have
volunteered to help their local community.

I can’t remember the last time I personally observed road rage - though it
clearly makes for popular television.

I’ve not observed less tendency to queue, if anything it’s increased hugely
whilst we all wait our turn to get into shops. And we’ve all been queuing
nicely for our jabs.

Given all the improvements in society I’m prepared to forgive a bit of
people looking at their phones whilst walking.

"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:25vn8g9laauf39aguh3j0b0hj4gt6voltg@4ax.com...

>>> No doubt we are better off materially but socially I'm not so sure.
>>>
>>
>>Socially? Discrimination against people because of their sexual
>>orientation
>>is vastly much reduced. Women's rights, eg equal pay, much improved.
>>Physical and sexual abuse of spouses and children no longer acceptable.
>>Drink driving no longer acceptable. Deference and "knowing your place"
>>much
>>reduced.
>
> Respect for the needs of older people, knowing and helping neighbours,
> queuing, road rage, observation while walking on the pavement?

"Service" in banks and arranging maintenance of equipment is much worse. The
support staff have to be accessed over the phone or by online chat, rather
than face to face, and they won't take ownership of the problem and see it
through to completion.

I am in the middle of trying to get a new deep freeze repaired: after less
than 6 months it started running continuously (instead of intermittently,
driven by the thermostat) and no longer gets cold even though the motor is
running all the time. After a long time in phone queues, and a lot of hassle
getting cut off by the phone system, I eventually reported the fault and an
engineer visit was booked for two days later (seemingly very good service -
suspiciously so"!). No engineer turned up, and when I enquired (same hassle
getting through) I was told that the call had been referred to the wrong
thirty-party repair company who didn't cover my area. A new appointment was
made with the correct company, again for a couple of days' time, and again
the engineer didn't turn up: this time because the freezer company had made
an appointment without checking whether the third-party company could manage
it - a sort of "hi, we've made an appointment for tomorrow - hope you can
manage it". Again, the freezer company weren't pro-active in keeping me
informed that there was a problem before the day of the appointment. Even
now an engineer has been and ordered a part, I'm not convinced he's ordered
the right part, because he thought it was a circuit board that was failing
to detect temperature and cut off the motor once the freezer was cold
enough, whereas I told him that even after it had been running and the
motor/compressor was getting so hot that it welded the waste-water tray to
the motor, the freezer was not getting cold. I phoned and emailed to
communicate that information, but I bet it's been ignored. I'll know next
Tuesday when the engineer calls - at least now I have found our freezer
thermometer so I can prove whether the temperature is starting to fall after
the repair.

This is symptomatic of the attitude of modern support desks: they don't
listen and prejudge the fault, they believe their computer when it says "for
this postcode, use this repair company" even after getting a "we don't cover
this postcode area", they don't keep the customer informed of any problems
("we don't cover this area", "we can't manage the date that you have
promised without consulting us") that prevent them keeping appointments.

I had another problem the other year with a financial company. I had some
money saved with them and I wanted to withdraw it to go towards the purchase
of a new house. I gave them about 6 weeks' notice by letter, asking money to
be transferred to my bank account. I sent them a voided cheque as proof of
my bank account, which is the standard anti-money-laundering process that
financial companies use. They lost one application, they rejected the next
without telling me why, they couldn't confirm whether they had received and
processed my letters. Eventually it turned out that they were silently
rejecting my voided cheque because they wanted a voided paying-in slip
instead (how petty). By now time was getting tight, so I made a 50-mile
round trip to get an letter from my bank to prove that the account existed
so I could take it to the financial company who had a branch almost next
door. Even that was not sufficient: the head office wanted to see the letter
themselves and would not even take the word of the branch manager that he
had seen proof of my account! At every single stage they blocked the
transfer of the money, and it was a case of "we won't tell you the next
hurdle until you've got over this one". It ended up that I had to borrow the
money from my parents and then pay them back a week or so later, otherwise
the house purchase wouldn't have gone through, for the sake of "only"
£15,000 (a small proportion of the overall price of the house). The head of
customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was making
it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few hundred
pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused. But the
damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't use them
again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:98un8gltesn2u00t426j502vhh7qvnduke@4ax.com...
>
>>> I don't really subscribe to the common view that things were better in
>>> years gone by. I'm a child of the early sixties, and I can't think of too
>>> many things that were better in the past. Certainly the things that are
>>> better now outweigh those that have got worse.
>>
>> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
>> rust buckets.
>
> Yes, 1970s cars were appalling for rust, whereas the last two cars I've had
> (1999 reg and 2008 reg) have still been rust-free after (respectively) 10
> and 13 years.
>
> Build quality of appliances *may* have been better in the past, when metal
> rather than plastic was used, and when things were built to be maintained -
> they had nice easy screws and they were intuitive to fix. Nowadays the
> concept of "repairing" anything that is broken seems to be anathema. Laptops
> have always been harder to maintain than desktop PCs, because of
> miniaturisation, but they have got worse: they no longer have easy-access
> screw panels for replacing/upgrading RAM and HDD, and they no longer have
> removable batteries. Goodness knows what you are expected to do when the
> battery stops holding its charge, which with all my previous laptops has
> happened after about 2 years, despite only connecting the charger until the
> battery is full (ie not leaving the laptop on charge 24/7) and despite
> trying not to let the battery discharge to lower than some minimum level (eg
> 10%). Batteries losing their ability to hold any charge is no more than an
> annoyance if you can buy a replacement, but it is a major issue if you have
> to get someone specialised to break the seal on the heat-sealed/glued case
> and then maybe unsolder the dead battery. Same with mobile phones: gone are
> the days when you can take the back off to replace the battery. The
> inability to get an HDD out of a non-booting laptop is a major problem. In
> the past (as long as the HDD isn't encrypted, when all bets are off) you can
> remove the HDD, connect it to a caddy and retrieve user data before starting
> to reinstall from factory image. Nowadays, if the laptop won't boot you are
> stuffed, unless you can boot off a CD or USB image to allow the laptop to
> copy its data to an external drive.
>
>> No doubt we are better off materially but socially I'm not so sure.
>
> Socially, I'm sure we have become more selfish and inward-looking (we look
> after ourselves and our family, but aren't as good at looking out for
> neighbours).
>
> Covid brought out the best and worst in people. Best in the sense of
> neighbours checking that each other were OK, both physically and mentally.
> When one person managed to book a supermarket slot, particularly in the
> early days when they were like gold dust and there were shortages of flour
> and loo rolls, they asked neighbours "is there anything you need that I can
> add to my order?". Worst in the sense that younger people seemed to think
> that the lockdown rules didn't apply to them, and found any excuse for a
> mass party in a park or on the beach.
>
>

Not all young people - just those that make good TV or newspaper reports.
The young people I know have stuck to the rules. If anything, it’s the
middle aged that have been the main rule breakers.

NY wrote:

> The head of
>customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was making
>it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few hundred
>pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused. But the
>damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't use them
>again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.

But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 30/04/2021 13:35, Scott wrote:

>
> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
> rust buckets.

I think that post-WW2 manufacturers had realised that building things to
last for ever wasn't a good idea. Singer sewing machines were designed
like that and the company did very well out of the reputation they built
that their machines were very reliable. However once the people who
wanted a sewing machine had a sewing machine and parents passed theirs
on to their children and then on to grandchildren, new sales went below
the critical number and the company went bust.

So built in obsolescence started to be the norm, but it wasn't a precise
science in those days, so there were still good and bad purchases.

Early cars had a positive earth in the early days and it wasn't until
the late 1960s and early 1970s that science revealed that a positive
earth made the car body a sacrificial anode and negative earth became
the norm. Cars still rusted though, from the salt on the roads in
winter, and galvanising came along to solve that.

Jim

Indy Jess John <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/04/2021 13:35, Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
>> rust buckets.
>
> I think that post-WW2 manufacturers had realised that building things to
> last for ever wasn't a good idea. Singer sewing machines were designed
> like that and the company did very well out of the reputation they built
> that their machines were very reliable. However once the people who
> wanted a sewing machine had a sewing machine and parents passed theirs
> on to their children and then on to grandchildren, new sales went below
> the critical number and the company went bust.
>
> So built in obsolescence started to be the norm, but it wasn't a precise
> science in those days, so there were still good and bad purchases.
>
> Early cars had a positive earth in the early days and it wasn't until
> the late 1960s and early 1970s that science revealed that a positive
> earth made the car body a sacrificial anode and negative earth became
> the norm. Cars still rusted though, from the salt on the roads in
> winter, and galvanising came along to solve that.
>
> Jim
>
>

Things being unrepairable is mainly down to consumers being unwilling to
pay the costs. Appliances have become very cheap relative to wages, and
part of that cheapness is due to using parts with a limited life
expectancy. You can still buy expensive appliances, eg from Miele, that use
decent quality parts and tend to last. But most people won’t. Wage costs
have gone up, so repair costs have gone up, making a repair uneconomic
relative to buying a new appliance. People have unrealistic expectations,
wanting things to be cheap and repairable at little cost.

"Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
news:vb6q8g97p7tisako06c0cb65au65uc1kju@4ax.com...
> NY wrote:
>
>> The head of
>>customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was making
>>it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few hundred
>>pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused. But the
>>damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't use
>>them
>>again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.
>
> But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?

Santander

On Sat, 1 May 2021 09:46:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Indy Jess John <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 30/04/2021 13:35, Scott wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
>>> rust buckets.
>>
>> I think that post-WW2 manufacturers had realised that building things to
>> last for ever wasn't a good idea. Singer sewing machines were designed
>> like that and the company did very well out of the reputation they built
>> that their machines were very reliable. However once the people who
>> wanted a sewing machine had a sewing machine and parents passed theirs
>> on to their children and then on to grandchildren, new sales went below
>> the critical number and the company went bust.
>>
>> So built in obsolescence started to be the norm, but it wasn't a precise
>> science in those days, so there were still good and bad purchases.
>>
>> Early cars had a positive earth in the early days and it wasn't until
>> the late 1960s and early 1970s that science revealed that a positive
>> earth made the car body a sacrificial anode and negative earth became
>> the norm. Cars still rusted though, from the salt on the roads in
>> winter, and galvanising came along to solve that.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>
>Things being unrepairable is mainly down to consumers being unwilling to
>pay the costs. Appliances have become very cheap relative to wages, and
>part of that cheapness is due to using parts with a limited life
>expectancy. You can still buy expensive appliances, eg from Miele, that use
>decent quality parts and tend to last. But most people won’t. Wage costs
>have gone up, so repair costs have gone up, making a repair uneconomic
>relative to buying a new appliance. People have unrealistic expectations,
>wanting things to be cheap and repairable at little cost.

What can the "decent" quality be on this
https://www.espares.co.uk/product/es1370609/washing-machine-drain-hose
to justify the price? Does Miele have their own plastic R&D and
manufacturing plant for this bit of plastic? (Which roents love!).

Your justification of this price for the "quality" would be welcome.
--
brightside S9

In article <s6g5ko$9ch$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Are we sure the 405 era isn't being remembered unduly fondly? BritBox
> has been very enlightening for me. There's lots of programmes that I
> remember as being great/good, which on when coming to see them again
> have proved to be very disappointing. Memory plays tricks it seems.

Yes and no. We've recently been watching some old films/TV programmes via
DVD issues - e.g.s like "Sgt Cork" the early detective that was on ITV, the
'Edgar Wallace' films, and even the B&W 'The Saint' episodes. They are all
now a bit quaint and old-fashioned. And the picture quality of the 'Sgt
Cork' ones is pretty poor at times. But in some ways that all makes them
more entertaining than the modern 'crime' stories.

Mind you, I also often enjoy what gets broadcast on TPTV. That often
broadcasts old British films I had no idea had ever existed and are quite
fascinating to watch.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 01/05/2021 12:08, NY wrote:
> "Chris J Dixon"<chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:vb6q8g97p7tisako06c0cb65au65uc1kju@4ax.com...
>> NY wrote:
>>
>>> The head of
>>> customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was making
>>> it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few hundred
>>> pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused. But the
>>> damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't use
>>> them
>>> again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.
>>
>> But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?
>
> Santander
>
My sister had trouble with them too.

Something she was trying to do as Executor of her husband's estate was
to get hold of the relatively small sum of money in an ISA held by
Santander. Santander insisted that she applied on a specific form and
her solicitor had to countersign it to say that he had witnessed her
signature. She pointed out to them that she lived in Essex and her
Solicitor lived in Yorkshire and his travelling cost to do that exceeded
the amount in the ISA so it wasn't going to happen. It is still at
stalemate 5 years later but she did close all her own accounts with
Santander so that her executors wouldn't have the same problem.

Jim

On 01/05/2021 14:21, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 01/05/2021 12:08, NY wrote:
>> "Chris J Dixon"<chris@cdixon.me.uk>  wrote in message
>> news:vb6q8g97p7tisako06c0cb65au65uc1kju@4ax.com...
>>> NY wrote:
>>>
>>>> The head of
>>>> customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was
>>>> making
>>>> it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few
>>>> hundred
>>>> pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused.
>>>> But the
>>>> damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't use
>>>> them
>>>> again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.
>>>
>>> But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?
>>
>> Santander
>>
> My sister had trouble with them too.
>
> Something she was trying to do as Executor of her husband's estate was
> to get hold of the relatively small sum of money in an ISA held by
> Santander. Santander insisted that she applied on a specific form and
> her solicitor had to countersign it to say that he had witnessed her
> signature. She pointed out to them that she lived in Essex and her
> Solicitor lived in Yorkshire and his travelling cost to do that exceeded
> the amount in the ISA so it wasn't going to happen. It is still at
> stalemate 5 years later but she did close all her own accounts with
> Santander so that her executors wouldn't have the same problem.
>

While it's TOT for this group I have to say that's at odds with my
experience helping people deal with estates that include Santander
accounts (including ISAs). Like most banks these days, they transfer
small balances without probate, and without anyone witnessing
signatures. All that's needed is a death certificate and certified copy
of the will.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

brightside <brightside@sonnenkinder.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 May 2021 09:46:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Indy Jess John <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2021 13:35, Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
>>>> rust buckets.
>>>
>>> I think that post-WW2 manufacturers had realised that building things to
>>> last for ever wasn't a good idea. Singer sewing machines were designed
>>> like that and the company did very well out of the reputation they built
>>> that their machines were very reliable. However once the people who
>>> wanted a sewing machine had a sewing machine and parents passed theirs
>>> on to their children and then on to grandchildren, new sales went below
>>> the critical number and the company went bust.
>>>
>>> So built in obsolescence started to be the norm, but it wasn't a precise
>>> science in those days, so there were still good and bad purchases.
>>>
>>> Early cars had a positive earth in the early days and it wasn't until
>>> the late 1960s and early 1970s that science revealed that a positive
>>> earth made the car body a sacrificial anode and negative earth became
>>> the norm. Cars still rusted though, from the salt on the roads in
>>> winter, and galvanising came along to solve that.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Things being unrepairable is mainly down to consumers being unwilling to
>> pay the costs. Appliances have become very cheap relative to wages, and
>> part of that cheapness is due to using parts with a limited life
>> expectancy. You can still buy expensive appliances, eg from Miele, that use
>> decent quality parts and tend to last. But most people won’t. Wage costs
>> have gone up, so repair costs have gone up, making a repair uneconomic
>> relative to buying a new appliance. People have unrealistic expectations,
>> wanting things to be cheap and repairable at little cost.
>
>
> What can the "decent" quality be on this
> https://www.espares.co.uk/product/es1370609/washing-machine-drain-hose
> to justify the price? Does Miele have their own plastic R&D and
> manufacturing plant for this bit of plastic? (Which roents love!).
>
> Your justification of this price for the "quality" would be welcome.

I’m not attempting to justify their spares pricing at all. My point was
that by and large you buy expensive and have a machine that is not designed
to drop to bits in 5 years, or you buy cheap and regularly replace.
Household appliances are significantly cheaper in real terms than a few
decades ago.

On 01/05/2021 14:59, Robin wrote:
> On 01/05/2021 14:21, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 01/05/2021 12:08, NY wrote:
>>> "Chris J Dixon"<chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:vb6q8g97p7tisako06c0cb65au65uc1kju@4ax.com...
>>>> NY wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The head of
>>>>> customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was
>>>>> making
>>>>> it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few
>>>>> hundred
>>>>> pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused.
>>>>> But the
>>>>> damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't use
>>>>> them
>>>>> again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?
>>>
>>> Santander
>>>
>> My sister had trouble with them too.
>>
>> Something she was trying to do as Executor of her husband's estate was
>> to get hold of the relatively small sum of money in an ISA held by
>> Santander. Santander insisted that she applied on a specific form and
>> her solicitor had to countersign it to say that he had witnessed her
>> signature. She pointed out to them that she lived in Essex and her
>> Solicitor lived in Yorkshire and his travelling cost to do that exceeded
>> the amount in the ISA so it wasn't going to happen. It is still at
>> stalemate 5 years later but she did close all her own accounts with
>> Santander so that her executors wouldn't have the same problem.
>>
>
> While it's TOT for this group I have to say that's at odds with my
> experience helping people deal with estates that include Santander
> accounts (including ISAs). Like most banks these days, they transfer
> small balances without probate, and without anyone witnessing
> signatures. All that's needed is a death certificate and certified copy
> of the will.

It must depend on the attitude of the Branch Manager then.

Jim

On 01/05/2021 15:29, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 01/05/2021 14:59, Robin wrote:
>> On 01/05/2021 14:21, Indy Jess John wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2021 12:08, NY wrote:
>>>> "Chris J Dixon"<chris@cdixon.me.uk>   wrote in message
>>>> news:vb6q8g97p7tisako06c0cb65au65uc1kju@4ax.com...
>>>>> NY wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The head of
>>>>>> customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was
>>>>>> making
>>>>>> it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few
>>>>>> hundred
>>>>>> pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused.
>>>>>> But the
>>>>>> damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?
>>>>
>>>> Santander
>>>>
>>> My sister had trouble with them too.
>>>
>>> Something she was trying to do as Executor of her husband's estate was
>>> to get hold of the relatively small sum of money in an ISA held by
>>> Santander. Santander insisted that she applied on a specific form and
>>> her solicitor had to countersign it to say that he had witnessed her
>>> signature. She pointed out to them that she lived in Essex and her
>>> Solicitor lived in Yorkshire and his travelling cost to do that exceeded
>>> the amount in the ISA so it wasn't going to happen. It is still at
>>> stalemate 5 years later but she did close all her own accounts with
>>> Santander so that her executors wouldn't have the same problem.
>>>
>>
>> While it's TOT for this group I have to say that's at odds with my
>> experience helping people deal with estates that include Santander
>> accounts (including ISAs).  Like most banks these days, they transfer
>> small balances without probate, and without anyone witnessing
>> signatures.  All that's needed is a death certificate and certified copy
>> of the will.
>
> It must depend on the attitude of the Branch Manager then.
>

if so curiouser and curiouser as Santander have a centralised
bereavement team

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sat, 1 May 2021 16:32:12 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 01/05/2021 15:29, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 01/05/2021 14:59, Robin wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2021 14:21, Indy Jess John wrote:
>>>> On 01/05/2021 12:08, NY wrote:
>>>>> "Chris J Dixon"<chris@cdixon.me.uk>   wrote in message
>>>>> news:vb6q8g97p7tisako06c0cb65au65uc1kju@4ax.com...
>>>>>> NY wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The head of
>>>>>>> customer complaints was incandescent with rage that his company was
>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>> it so difficult to access my money, and authorised a small (a few
>>>>>>> hundred
>>>>>>> pounds) payment to compensate for the hassle that I'd been caused.
>>>>>>> But the
>>>>>>> damage to the company reputation was a lot more than that: I won't
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> again and I won't recommend them to anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you stop short of warning us off by naming them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Santander
>>>>>
>>>> My sister had trouble with them too.
>>>>
>>>> Something she was trying to do as Executor of her husband's estate was
>>>> to get hold of the relatively small sum of money in an ISA held by
>>>> Santander. Santander insisted that she applied on a specific form and
>>>> her solicitor had to countersign it to say that he had witnessed her
>>>> signature. She pointed out to them that she lived in Essex and her
>>>> Solicitor lived in Yorkshire and his travelling cost to do that exceeded
>>>> the amount in the ISA so it wasn't going to happen. It is still at
>>>> stalemate 5 years later but she did close all her own accounts with
>>>> Santander so that her executors wouldn't have the same problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> While it's TOT for this group I have to say that's at odds with my
>>> experience helping people deal with estates that include Santander
>>> accounts (including ISAs).  Like most banks these days, they transfer
>>> small balances without probate, and without anyone witnessing
>>> signatures.  All that's needed is a death certificate and certified copy
>>> of the will.
>>
>> It must depend on the attitude of the Branch Manager then.
>>
>if so curiouser and curiouser as Santander have a centralised
>bereavement team

Maybe there is discretion to process locally if the amount is below a
certain limit.

On 01/05/2021 15:25, Tweed wrote:

> I’m not attempting to justify their spares pricing at all. My point was
> that by and large you buy expensive and have a machine that is not designed
> to drop to bits in 5 years, or you buy cheap and regularly replace.

The situation has changed a bit for washing machines.
I had a Bosch washing machine which had a "Which? Best Buy"
recommendation, and it had a couple of repairs in the 11 years I owned
it, both relatively easy to fix (replacement brushes in the motor and
replacement drum bearings). I eventually decided to replace it when it
developed an intermittent water leak that the engineer couldn't trace.

Satisfied with the life it had given me, I opted for another "Which?
Best Buy" Bosch machine. This was a new design with a sealed drum unit.
After 5 years the drum bearings started to get noisy. I had had a
similar problem with the previous machine and new bearings were a quick
and easy repair. However, this new model requires a complete drum unit
replacement which is a lengthy and complicated repair, and I have been
quoted almost the price I paid originally for the machine as Call-out
charge, Parts and Labour. Effectively I have an expensive machine that
is falling to bits after 5 years (and ironically the selling feature
promotion of that model was a brushless motor guaranteed for 10 years).

I don't remember exactly what I paid for the machine when new but I
think it was in the £50-£70 ballpark from the cost of repairing it after
5 years. I am currently deciding between mending it or looking for a
replacement that doesn't have the sealed drum unit problem.

Jim

"Indy Jess John" <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:DBdjI.561266$VGkf.296124@fx13.ams4...
>> While it's TOT for this group I have to say that's at odds with my
>> experience helping people deal with estates that include Santander
>> accounts (including ISAs). Like most banks these days, they transfer
>> small balances without probate, and without anyone witnessing
>> signatures. All that's needed is a death certificate and certified copy
>> of the will.
>
> It must depend on the attitude of the Branch Manager then.

My experience was that the head office doesn't seem to delegate
responsibility to branch managers to authenticate documents. I took a letter
which certified that my account existed from my bank branch, with the laser
printer toner barely dry as I walked about 20 yards up the road to the
Santander branch. The branch manager kept me waiting for ages while he had
innumerable phone calls with head office, and emailed scans of my driving
licence and passport (I was taking no chances!), and asked me numerous
security questions. He eventually concluded that *he* was 100% satisfied
that I was who I said I was and that my account existed, but he couldn't
make head office accept that this was the case - there was no way round head
office's insistence that I send the original documents (not copies that the
branch manager certified) of passport and driving licence and letter from my
bank. And after a month of faffing around, while they kept inventing new
rules, there simply wasn't enough time for this to be done before the
completion date for the house purchase that the money in my Santander
account was going to contribute to. Anyway, I didn't trust Santander not to
lose the licence and passport, because they didn't even have a way of
logging every letter and its attachments as they were received by post - or
at least, if they did, there was no evidence of this whenever I asked "has
my letter arrived yet?".

There were various ways out of this fiasco: I had some money in a unit trust
with another company that I could have withdrawn from. If I'd known a few
days earlier, I might have done that. Fortunately my parents had enough
money in a savings account with their bank and could transfer it directly to
the solicitor (to avoid the additional delay of them to my bank and then my
bank to solicitor).

I played merry hell with Santander for this. I had applied in plenty of
time - far longer than I had been told was necessary when I first phoned -
and had sent what they asked for in that phone call. And they had wasted six
weeks not knowing their arse from their elbow, throwing first one and then
another impediment into the process. The chap in Customer Complaints who I
spoke to repeatedly was almost in tears of embarrassment and shame at what
the company he represented had done to me.

Would I recommend Santander to anyone else. Not on your nelly!

On 01/05/2021 16:32, Robin wrote:
>> It must depend on the attitude of the Branch Manager then.
>>
>
> if so curiouser and curiouser as Santander have a centralised
> bereavement team

No problem with my wife's Santander accounts when she died.

Bill

On Sat, 1 May 2021 17:30:06 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>"Indy Jess John" <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:DBdjI.561266$VGkf.296124@fx13.ams4...
>>> While it's TOT for this group I have to say that's at odds with my
>>> experience helping people deal with estates that include Santander
>>> accounts (including ISAs). Like most banks these days, they transfer
>>> small balances without probate, and without anyone witnessing
>>> signatures. All that's needed is a death certificate and certified copy
>>> of the will.
>>
>> It must depend on the attitude of the Branch Manager then.
>
>My experience was that the head office doesn't seem to delegate
>responsibility to branch managers to authenticate documents. I took a letter
>which certified that my account existed from my bank branch, with the laser
>printer toner barely dry as I walked about 20 yards up the road to the
>Santander branch. The branch manager kept me waiting for ages while he had
>innumerable phone calls with head office, and emailed scans of my driving
>licence and passport (I was taking no chances!), and asked me numerous
>security questions. He eventually concluded that *he* was 100% satisfied
>that I was who I said I was and that my account existed, but he couldn't
>make head office accept that this was the case - there was no way round head
>office's insistence that I send the original documents (not copies that the
>branch manager certified) of passport and driving licence and letter from my
>bank. And after a month of faffing around, while they kept inventing new
>rules, there simply wasn't enough time for this to be done before the
>completion date for the house purchase that the money in my Santander
>account was going to contribute to. Anyway, I didn't trust Santander not to
>lose the licence and passport, because they didn't even have a way of
>logging every letter and its attachments as they were received by post - or
>at least, if they did, there was no evidence of this whenever I asked "has
>my letter arrived yet?".
>
>There were various ways out of this fiasco: I had some money in a unit trust
>with another company that I could have withdrawn from. If I'd known a few
>days earlier, I might have done that. Fortunately my parents had enough
>money in a savings account with their bank and could transfer it directly to
>the solicitor (to avoid the additional delay of them to my bank and then my
>bank to solicitor).
>
>I played merry hell with Santander for this. I had applied in plenty of
>time - far longer than I had been told was necessary when I first phoned -
>and had sent what they asked for in that phone call. And they had wasted six
>weeks not knowing their arse from their elbow, throwing first one and then
>another impediment into the process. The chap in Customer Complaints who I
>spoke to repeatedly was almost in tears of embarrassment and shame at what
>the company he represented had done to me.
>
>Would I recommend Santander to anyone else. Not on your nelly!

A solicitor I knew used to charge a supplement on conveyancing if the
lender was either Abbey National (shabby Abbey) or Northern Rock.

On 01/05/2021 14:03, brightside wrote:
> On Sat, 1 May 2021 09:46:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Indy Jess John <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2021 13:35, Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was build quality better then? Appliances lasted longer but cars were
>>>> rust buckets.
>>>
>>> I think that post-WW2 manufacturers had realised that building things to
>>> last for ever wasn't a good idea. Singer sewing machines were designed
>>> like that and the company did very well out of the reputation they built
>>> that their machines were very reliable. However once the people who
>>> wanted a sewing machine had a sewing machine and parents passed theirs
>>> on to their children and then on to grandchildren, new sales went below
>>> the critical number and the company went bust.
>>>
>>> So built in obsolescence started to be the norm, but it wasn't a precise
>>> science in those days, so there were still good and bad purchases.
>>>
>>> Early cars had a positive earth in the early days and it wasn't until
>>> the late 1960s and early 1970s that science revealed that a positive
>>> earth made the car body a sacrificial anode and negative earth became
>>> the norm. Cars still rusted though, from the salt on the roads in
>>> winter, and galvanising came along to solve that.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Things being unrepairable is mainly down to consumers being unwilling to
>> pay the costs. Appliances have become very cheap relative to wages, and
>> part of that cheapness is due to using parts with a limited life
>> expectancy. You can still buy expensive appliances, eg from Miele, that use
>> decent quality parts and tend to last. But most people won’t. Wage costs
>> have gone up, so repair costs have gone up, making a repair uneconomic
>> relative to buying a new appliance. People have unrealistic expectations,
>> wanting things to be cheap and repairable at little cost.
>
>
> What can the "decent" quality be on this
> https://www.espares.co.uk/product/es1370609/washing-machine-drain-hose
> to justify the price? Does Miele have their own plastic R&D and
> manufacturing plant for this bit of plastic? (Which roents love!).
>
> Your justification of this price for the "quality" would be welcome.
>

Its Miele...... What do you expect????

In article <s6gunf$j13$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> Laptops have always been harder to maintain than desktop PCs, because
> of miniaturisation, but they have got worse: they no longer have
> easy-access screw panels for replacing/upgrading RAM and HDD, and they
> no longer have removable batteries. Goodness knows what you are
> expected to do when the battery stops holding its charge, which with
> all my previous laptops has happened after about 2 years, despite only
> connecting the charger until the battery is full (ie not leaving the
> laptop on charge 24/7) and despite trying not to let the battery
> discharge to lower than some minimum level (eg 10%).

Batteries in portable devices is a particular concern for me. As you say,
many devices seem to be 'unopenable' so when the original battery ceases to
function OK you are presumably expected to chuck the device away. Certainly
doesn't save you money! And can be very inconvient as it denies you the
choice.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <s6j82c$5um$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Things being unrepairable is mainly down to consumers being unwilling to
> pay the costs. Appliances have become very cheap relative to wages, and
> part of that cheapness is due to using parts with a limited life
> expectancy. You can still buy expensive appliances, eg from Miele, that
> use decent quality parts and tend to last. But most people won't.

For some things that may be true. But doesn't excuse a mobile item not
allowing you to replace the battery because it is sealed, etc. And having
to buy an entirely new device rather than a replacement battery isn't going
to save you money!

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Sat, 01 May 2021 14:20:33 +0100, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
wrote:

>In article <s6gunf$j13$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> Laptops have always been harder to maintain than desktop PCs, because
>> of miniaturisation, but they have got worse: they no longer have
>> easy-access screw panels for replacing/upgrading RAM and HDD, and they
>> no longer have removable batteries. Goodness knows what you are
>> expected to do when the battery stops holding its charge, which with
>> all my previous laptops has happened after about 2 years, despite only
>> connecting the charger until the battery is full (ie not leaving the
>> laptop on charge 24/7) and despite trying not to let the battery
>> discharge to lower than some minimum level (eg 10%).
>
>Batteries in portable devices is a particular concern for me. As you say,
>many devices seem to be 'unopenable' so when the original battery ceases to
>function OK you are presumably expected to chuck the device away. Certainly
>doesn't save you money! And can be very inconvient as it denies you the
>choice.
>
>Jim

This can often be overcome with the correct expertise. I had my iPod
battery replaced twice by third party supplier (Apple said it was out
of support). I know my iPad battery can be replaced if required.
TomTom replaced a faulty battery under warranty. BRITA replaced the
monitor for my water filter when it stopped working. Worth
investigating.

Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <s6j82c$5um$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Things being unrepairable is mainly down to consumers being unwilling to
>> pay the costs. Appliances have become very cheap relative to wages, and
>> part of that cheapness is due to using parts with a limited life
>> expectancy. You can still buy expensive appliances, eg from Miele, that
>> use decent quality parts and tend to last. But most people won't.
>
> For some things that may be true. But doesn't excuse a mobile item not
> allowing you to replace the battery because it is sealed, etc. And having
> to buy an entirely new device rather than a replacement battery isn't going
> to save you money!
>
> Jim
>

Well despite people being ever rude about Apple, they replaced my iphone7
battery for £25 in about an hour in the local Apple shop.