In message <suqjvf$v70$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:23:27 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ObRail2: But we did get to spend most of the next day visiting the
>> Acropolis, which surprisingly had a short stretch of railway
>> track at the top. I can't find my photo, but here's someone
>> else's: <https://www.flickr.com/photos/andyhay/28360608514>
>
>Here's one of mine, with the Parthenon terminus in shot:
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/47641974052/in/album-72157691093
>123863/>
>
>The other end, to the crane:
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/47642181062/in/album-72157691093
>123863/lightbox/>

Found it. Almost 20yrs ago and with my first digital camera.

<http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Acropolis-railway.jpg>

One had to be careful, only enough memory for about 30 photos, after
which you had to download them by a cable to a PC. Not ideal while
travelling, although of course I did have a laptop with me.
--
Roland Perry

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>
>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>
>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>> ago.
>>
> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
> problem.
>

We will need an ETIAS, which lasts for three years. It's a form of visa
waiver, not a visa, and any Brits who visit any Schengen countries will
have them. I'm hoping that scheme will mean we can use the ePassport gates
again, which would be a big improvement on the current situation.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:14:11 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 19/02/2022 11:53, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>
>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>
>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>
>Not hatred, we volunteered for it.

We left a customs & trade union, nothing more. One the french never wanted us in
and made that plain all the time, yet when we leave instead of being pleased
Macron spends his time sending more potshots our way. Go figure. And lets be
clear, 90% of the political BS from the EU after brexit has come directly or
indirectly from Paris.

On 19/02/2022 12:19, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>
>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>
>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>> ago.
>>
> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
> problem.

Not sure of this being relevant to this discussion, although otherwise
true. The discussion was planes being diverted due to weather back to
their last airport. If this is a EU airport then the passengers will
have had to have visas to get onto the plane before being diverted back
to the EU.

--
Colin

And another

<https://images.cm.archant.co.uk/resource/image/8702388/landscape_ratio
16x9/640/360/c20a1f519ce01df45a6ced1f64fc88fb/BX/carmarthen-roof-blown-
off-1-768x1024.jpg>
--
Roland Perry

On 19/02/2022 12:31, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>
>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>>> ago.
>>>
>> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
>> problem.
>>
>
> We will need an ETIAS, which lasts for three years. It's a form of visa
> waiver, not a visa, and any Brits who visit any Schengen countries will
> have them. I'm hoping that scheme will mean we can use the ePassport gates
> again, which would be a big improvement on the current situation.
>

It's a visa in all but name. What happens if a UK citizen is diverted
to the EU without an ETIAS?

There's at least one EU country which will force UK citizens without an
ETIAS to sleep on the floor rather rather than allow them out of airside
to spend the night in a hotel.

On 19/02/2022 12:35, ColinR wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:19, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>
>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>>> ago.
>>>
>> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
>> problem.
>
> Not sure of this being relevant to this discussion, although otherwise
> true. The discussion was planes being diverted due to weather back to
> their last airport. If this is a EU airport then the passengers will
> have had to have visas to get onto the plane before being diverted back
> to the EU.
>
What if the flight is from a non EU country? I cannot see a flight from
Turkey to the UK having enough fuel to return to Turkey.

I was on a flight from England to northern Germany which couldn't land
and did return to the UK but the crew were aware this was a possibility
and carried extra fuel.

On 19/02/2022 12:38, Roland Perry wrote:
> And another
>
> <https://images.cm.archant.co.uk/resource/image/8702388/landscape_ratio
> 16x9/640/360/c20a1f519ce01df45a6ced1f64fc88fb/BX/carmarthen-roof-blown-
> off-1-768x1024.jpg>

https://images.cm.archant.co.uk/resource/image/8702388/landscape_ratio
16x9/640/360/c20a1f519ce01df45a6ced1f64fc88fb/BX/carmarthen-roof-blown-
off-1-768x1024.jpg

That's a TFW train in CAMR station wherever that might be.

On 19/02/2022 12:24, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 09:37, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 21:30:39 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 19:03, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 17:37, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 16:57, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 16:45:17 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2022/02/18/TELEMMGLPICT000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 286533265_1_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqcpoWzwBIzlnewd68KzIvqMSLB5l84RipgJaV97BHC8U
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .jpeg?imwidth=640>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's better if you don't pass the image size parameter to the URL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2022/02/18/TELEMMGLPICT000286533265_1_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqcpoWzwBIzlnewd68KzIvqMSLB5l84RipgJaV97BHC8U.jpeg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or https://tiny.one/burnbabyburn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nice (??) pikky!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A couple more from the BBC (not sure if all these will work):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2022/2/18/ec5f1fac-0c77-48ca-a3c4-5c8c57ac45d1.jpg>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60421388?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=620fcd45d774c11a4faacf24%26Roof%20blows%20onto%20rail%20line%20in%20Oxfordshire%262022-02-18T17%3A15%3A56.789Z&ns_fee=0>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some of them, unsurprisingly, had to go around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If we note that Eunice has hit most of England, and assuming that
>>>>>>>>> planes
>>>>>>>>> would have to diverge to other airports, where would they go? Would
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> go to CDG or AMS, for example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've seen reports today of flights diverted to (IIRC) Geneva and
>>>>>>>> Oslo (and
>>>>>>>> one had only come from Italy!!).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would carriers also be able to call force majeure, thus relieving them
>>>>>>>>> of their obligations to get passengers to their original destinations?
>>>>>>>>> Passengers in that case would be responsible for getting themselves to
>>>>>>>>> London.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've always assumed that if your flight is diverted to another airport,
>>>>>>>> it's the airline's responsibility to get you to the correct place
>>>>>>>> (even if
>>>>>>>> in a situation like today that just means waiting until tomorrow).
>>>>>>>> BICBW.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It depends on the airline. Some are more"humane" than others. However,
>>>>>>> even the most humane can find themselves in impossible situations.
>>>>>>> Think about all the 9/11 aircraft that ended up at Halifax when the US
>>>>>>> closed its' airspace. It was the response of the local populace that
>>>>>>> saved the day. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/66780006948163021/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then there are the occasional diversions to inhospitable airports like
>>>>>>> Iqualit and Churchill where a plane undergoing cold weather testing
>>>>>>> with a quite small crew can fill all the available rooms. The
>>>>>>> diversion that sticks in my mind is a BA 747 on an overnight leg from
>>>>>>> the far east that ended up somewhere pretty deep in Russia where they
>>>>>>> didn't have steps that reached the cabin (I never heard how that was
>>>>>>> solved). BA sent a 767 and an A320 from night stops in Eastern Europe
>>>>>>> within a couple of hours, there were no hotels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are obviously very exceptional circumstances and people on the
>>>>>> ground
>>>>>> can only do their best with the situation that's been put upon them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Diverted from London to Geneva until the wind dies down is obviously a
>>>>>> somewhat different situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When it happened to me, diverted to Rio because a volcano had shut down
>>>> Buenos Aires, the ground staff had sorted temporary 24 hour visas for
>>>> Brazil. I think mine is still around somewhere as we were supposed to
>>>> hand them in on departure but we were just taken straight to the gate
>>>> from the hotel. There was some sort of official counting us onto the
>>>> buses when we left the hotel and that was it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But Brits don't need visas for Brazil.
>>>
>>
>> Firstly not all the passengers on the flight were Brits. Secondly this
>> was a few years back.
>>
>
> My first visit to Brazil was in 1989, and I didn't need a visa.
>

I doubt whether the BA ground staff in Rio knew who on the flight would
need visas and who didn't. They just arranged 24 hour permits for
everyone. They had just over an hour's notice of the diversion to get
everything organised, including transport and accommodation. Fortunately
it was a weekend so they got a hotel in the commercial district that had
plenty of rooms.

Also there is a funny about Visas for Brazil, or used to be, arriving at
Rio or Sao Paolo as a tourist and you don't need one. My first visit, in
1992, was overland from Argentina (Iguacu) and I needed one.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 12:33, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:14:11 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:53, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>
>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>
>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>
>> Not hatred, we volunteered for it.
>
> We left a customs & trade union, nothing more.

Wrong, we left a whole lot more.

> One the french

De Gaulle

> never wanted us in
> and made that plain all the time, yet when we leave instead of being pleased
> Macron spends his time sending more potshots our way.

Cite?

> Go figure. And lets be
> clear, 90% of the political BS from the EU after brexit has come directly or
> indirectly from Paris.
>
99% of the political bullshit both pre and post Brexit has come from
Johnson and Frost with a side order of Mogg.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 12:35, ColinR wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:19, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>
>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>>> ago.
>>>
>> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
>> problem.
>
> Not sure of this being relevant to this discussion, although otherwise
> true. The discussion was planes being diverted due to weather back to
> their last airport. If this is a EU airport then the passengers will
> have had to have visas to get onto the plane before being diverted back
> to the EU.
>

There's the possibility of, eg, transatlantic flights being diverted to
the EU which would raise the problem in the near future.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 12:51, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:31, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be
>>>>>>> stuck
>>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>
>> We will need an ETIAS, which lasts for three years. It's a form of visa
>> waiver, not a visa, and any Brits who visit any Schengen countries will
>> have them. I'm hoping that scheme will mean we can use the ePassport
>> gates
>> again, which would be a big improvement on the current situation.
>>
>
> It's a visa in all but name.  What happens if a UK citizen is diverted
> to the EU without an ETIAS?
>
> There's at least one EU country which will force UK citizens without an
> ETIAS to sleep on the floor rather rather than allow them out of airside
> to spend the night in a hotel.

Is there? You presumably have evidence to back that assertion?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 12:54, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:35, ColinR wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 12:19, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be
>>>>>>> stuck
>>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become
>>> a problem.
>>
>> Not sure of this being relevant to this discussion, although otherwise
>> true. The discussion was planes being diverted due to weather back to
>> their last airport. If this is a EU airport then the passengers will
>> have had to have visas to get onto the plane before being diverted
>> back to the EU.
>>
> What if the flight is from a non EU country?  I cannot see a flight from
> Turkey to the UK having enough fuel to return to Turkey.
>
> I was on a flight from England to northern Germany which couldn't land
> and did return to the UK but the crew were aware this was a possibility
> and carried extra fuel.

Aircraft always have enough extra fuel to reach a suitable range of
diversion airfields if necessary.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <suqpii$gfl$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:57 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 19/02/2022 12:38, Roland Perry wrote:
>> And another
>>
>><https://images.cm.archant.co.uk/resource/image/8702388/landscape_ratio
>> 16x9/640/360/c20a1f519ce01df45a6ced1f64fc88fb/BX/carmarthen-roof-blown-
>> off-1-768x1024.jpg>
>
>
>https://images.cm.archant.co.uk/resource/image/8702388/landscape_ratio
>16x9/640/360/c20a1f519ce01df45a6ced1f64fc88fb/BX/carmarthen-roof-blown-
>off-1-768x1024.jpg
>
>That's a TFW train in CAMR

?

>station wherever that might be.

url says Carmarthen.
--
Roland Perry

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:31, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think we need visas for anywhere now that we didn't three years
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>> We'll need visas for the EU soon so diversions to the EU will become a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>
>> We will need an ETIAS, which lasts for three years. It's a form of visa
>> waiver, not a visa, and any Brits who visit any Schengen countries will
>> have them. I'm hoping that scheme will mean we can use the ePassport gates
>> again, which would be a big improvement on the current situation.
>>
>
> It's a visa in all but name. What happens if a UK citizen is diverted
> to the EU without an ETIAS?
>
> There's at least one EU country which will force UK citizens without an
> ETIAS to sleep on the floor rather rather than allow them out of airside
> to spend the night in a hotel.
>

Personal responsibility again. ETIAS waivers are going to cost next to
nothing. 7 Euros and lasts 3 years.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:20:03 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/02/2022 12:54, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>> I was on a flight from England to northern Germany which couldn't land
>> and did return to the UK but the crew were aware this was a possibility
>> and carried extra fuel.
>
>Aircraft always have enough extra fuel to reach a suitable range of
>diversion airfields if necessary.

Indeed so, and so should battery powered trains!

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:20:03 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 19/02/2022 12:54, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>>> I was on a flight from England to northern Germany which couldn't land
>>> and did return to the UK but the crew were aware this was a possibility
>>> and carried extra fuel.
>>
>> Aircraft always have enough extra fuel to reach a suitable range of
>> diversion airfields if necessary.
>
> Indeed so, and so should battery powered trains!
>

Perhaps there should be strategically placed wagons/coaches packed full of
batteries that can be hooked on the back. A sort of rail version of in
flight refuelling, or similar to the usb battery packs you hook up to your
phone. Perhaps trains should have a giant usb-c (usb-R?) connector as
standard, to carry both power and data.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:15:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <suqjvf$v70$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:23:27 on Sat, 19 Feb
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ObRail2: But we did get to spend most of the next day visiting the
>>> Acropolis, which surprisingly had a short stretch of railway
>>> track at the top. I can't find my photo, but here's someone
>>> else's: <https://www.flickr.com/photos/andyhay/28360608514>
>>
>>Here's one of mine, with the Parthenon terminus in shot:
>><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/47641974052/in/album-72157691093
>>123863/>
>>
>>The other end, to the crane:
>><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/47642181062/in/album-72157691093
>>123863/lightbox/>
>
>Found it. Almost 20yrs ago and with my first digital camera.
>
> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Acropolis-railway.jpg>
>
>One had to be careful, only enough memory for about 30 photos, after
>which you had to download them by a cable to a PC. Not ideal while
>travelling, although of course I did have a laptop with me.

My first digital camera, purchased in the summer of 2000, had a card slot, but the biggest card I could afford at the
time was only 48MB. Images were about 600kB, so that card could hold about 80 images. Of course, if you were wealthy
enough to afford more than one card, then you could shoot an unlimited number of pictures on a trip.

This is one of the first images I took, which is surprisingly topical today:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/49424447721>

On 19/02/2022 13:59, Recliner wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:20:03 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 19/02/2022 12:54, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>>> I was on a flight from England to northern Germany which couldn't land
>>> and did return to the UK but the crew were aware this was a possibility
>>> and carried extra fuel.
>>
>> Aircraft always have enough extra fuel to reach a suitable range of
>> diversion airfields if necessary.
>
> Indeed so, and so should battery powered trains!

I couldn't possibly comment :-)

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:09:41 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 19/02/2022 12:33, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:14:11 +0000
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:53, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>
>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>
>>> Not hatred, we volunteered for it.
>>
>> We left a customs & trade union, nothing more.
>
>Wrong, we left a whole lot more.

Ok, the EU is a wannabe federal state, one of the reasons for Brexit. They're
too stupid to see tighter integration will only cause it to fall apart as
Hungary and Poland are demonstrating because not all countries dance to the
same tune.

>> One the french
>
>De Gaulle

No, not just De Gaulle. Mitterrand and Chirac didn't want us around either
and Macron followed in their footsteps. Only Sarkozy was vaguely on our side.

>> never wanted us in
>> and made that plain all the time, yet when we leave instead of being pleased
>> Macron spends his time sending more potshots our way.
>
>Cite?

Fish.
Slow border checks.
Migrants.
Then his veiled strops when Brexit gets mentioned.

>> Go figure. And lets be
>> clear, 90% of the political BS from the EU after brexit has come directly or
>> indirectly from Paris.
>>
>99% of the political bullshit both pre and post Brexit has come from
>Johnson and Frost with a side order of Mogg.

No more so than the remainer side. Wasn't the City supposed to be a ghost
town (covid notwithstanding) by now and the pound crashing as all financial
services legged it to Paris and Frankfurt?

On 19/02/2022 12:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
> Drones exist, autonomous rail vehicles don't.

There are some but most of the work is aimed at carrying rail freight. A
small self-contained vehicle is much easier.

Autonomous Track Inspection: Keeping Railways Safe & Efficient

https://railway-news.com/autonomous-track-inspection-keeping-railways-safe-efficient/

The railway industry is entering a new era of autonomous track
inspection that couples frequent inspections of track with defect
detection and software analysis capabilities, which in turn optimise
railway maintenance and renewal planning, reduce risks through earlier
identification of track defects, and improve rail network safety.

In message <elu11h1rl6eunptkmsittor6e01pjeqqh4@4ax.com>, at 14:20:29 on
Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Acropolis-railway.jpg>
>>
>>One had to be careful, only enough memory for about 30 photos, after
>>which you had to download them by a cable to a PC. Not ideal while
>>travelling, although of course I did have a laptop with me.
>
>My first digital camera, purchased in the summer of 2000, had a card
>slot, but the biggest card I could afford at the time was only 48MB.
>Images were about 600kB, so that card could hold about 80 images.

In my black museum I have a 2MB Smartmedia card, shipped in an early
digital camera. I replaced it with 64MB.
--
Roland Perry

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> Drones exist, autonomous rail vehicles don't.
>
> There are some but most of the work is aimed at carrying rail freight. A
> small self-contained vehicle is much easier.
>
>
>
> Autonomous Track Inspection: Keeping Railways Safe & Efficient
>
> https://railway-news.com/autonomous-track-inspection-keeping-railways-safe-efficient/
>
> The railway industry is entering a new era of autonomous track
> inspection that couples frequent inspections of track with defect
> detection and software analysis capabilities, which in turn optimise
> railway maintenance and renewal planning, reduce risks through earlier
> identification of track defects, and improve rail network safety.
>
>

I wonder if we’ve got to the point where every train/locomotive could be
fitted with track monitoring equipment?

On 19/02/2022 15:53, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:09:41 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 12:33, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:14:11 +0000
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:53, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:46, MB wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>>>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The world is a different place since then with red tape hatred towards
>>>>> UK citizens vastly increased since then.
>>>>
>>>> Not hatred, we volunteered for it.
>>>
>>> We left a customs & trade union, nothing more.
>>
>> Wrong, we left a whole lot more.
>
> Ok, the EU is a wannabe federal state, one of the reasons for Brexit. They're
> too stupid to see tighter integration will only cause it to fall apart as
> Hungary and Poland are demonstrating because not all countries dance to the
> same tune.
>
>>> One the french
>>
>> De Gaulle
>
> No, not just De Gaulle. Mitterrand and Chirac didn't want us around either
> and Macron followed in their footsteps. Only Sarkozy was vaguely on our side.
>
>>> never wanted us in
>>> and made that plain all the time, yet when we leave instead of being pleased
>>> Macron spends his time sending more potshots our way.
>>
>> Cite?
>
> Fish.

Blame Boris, he cocked that one up, sold the fishermen down the river.

> Slow border checks.

Blame Boris, he made no provision for the inevitable border checks, just
lied that they wouldn't happen.

> Migrants.

The only problem there is the ensuing lack of them. Blame the racist
f-wits who created a non-existent problem.

> Then his veiled strops when Brexit gets mentioned.

Not allowed to mention it, Boris said so.

>
>>> Go figure. And lets be
>>> clear, 90% of the political BS from the EU after brexit has come directly or
>>> indirectly from Paris.
>>>
>> 99% of the political bullshit both pre and post Brexit has come from
>> Johnson and Frost with a side order of Mogg.
>
> No more so than the remainer side. Wasn't the City supposed to be a ghost
> town (covid notwithstanding) by now and the pound crashing as all financial
> services legged it to Paris and Frankfurt?
>

Another exaggeration. The pound is down, the economy is down,[1] chunks
of the City have legged it, as you put it, but carry on denying it.

Perhaps those who are/were so in favour of Brexit should do something
about solving the problems it has caused and stop trying to pretend they
don't exist.

[1] Even the government admits that.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 15:56, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <elu11h1rl6eunptkmsittor6e01pjeqqh4@4ax.com>, at 14:20:29 on
> Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>  <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Acropolis-railway.jpg>
>>>
>>> One had to be careful, only enough memory for about 30 photos, after
>>> which you had to download them by a cable to a PC. Not ideal while
>>> travelling, although of course I did have a laptop with me.
>>
>> My first digital camera, purchased in the summer of 2000, had a card
>> slot, but the biggest card I could afford at the time was only 48MB.
>> Images were about 600kB, so that card could hold about 80 images.
>
> In my black museum I have a 2MB Smartmedia card, shipped in an early
> digital camera. I replaced it with 64MB.

<mode=4 Yorkshiremen>

2MB, we'd have killed for 2MB…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.