Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>
>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever
>> were.
>
> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>
> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.

Ranges are being cut to compete with Aldi and Lidl. Both Tesco and
Sainsburys have scrapped their deli counters to reduce costs. Where price
isn’t such an issue ranges are much as before, eg M&S and Waitrose. Was in
Waitrose the other day and there were no gaps and a huge range of
everything. Local big Tesco is fully stocked as is Lidl. Local farm shop
has never run short of anything.

Remember how we weren’t going to be able to get Turkeys at Christmas
because of the lack of foreign meat processors etc? Also no pigs in blanket
due to lack of staff to wrap the bacon round the sausage. In the event the
shops were groaning with both.

From the FT:

The gradual disappearance of all-day opening is not the only retail trend
the pandemic has accelerated. All the big supermarkets have made “range
edits”: reducing the number of choices in a particular product area.

Initially this was done to maintain availability of key items such as
bread, milk and eggs in the face of panic buying early in the crisis. But
many reductions have become permanent and Asda, now owned by TDR Capital
and the billionaire investor Issa brothers, is planning deeper cuts.

“We will be reducing [products] in some areas by taking out duplicates,
increasing volumes on key lines and ultimately delivering lower prices for
customers,” it said.

Fewer product options mean increased sales volumes of the choices that
remain, making businesses simpler to run and allowing retailers to secure
better terms from suppliers. The model is used to the extreme by
discounters Aldi and Lidl, which typically stock about 2,000 permanent
product lines compared with more than 30,000 in a conventional hypermarket.

On 20/02/2022 19:47, Tweed wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 20/02/2022 13:28, MB wrote:
>>>>> On 20/02/2022 11:45, ColinR wrote:
>>>>>> Interestingly the rail industry seems to be lagging. Air and marine
>>>>>> transport already have significant monitoring equipment. In the marine
>>>>>> field there are "black boxes" and AIS systems fitted to all commercial
>>>>>> vessels. My understanding is that the airline industry have even more
>>>>>> sophisticated gizmos.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think AIS is required above a certain size of vessel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think they are like airlines and contract out management of the vessel
>>>>> to specialist companies who act as 24/7 contact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyone know what parameters marine AIS reports, other than the obvious
>>>> speed, course and position?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It seems an awful lot of stuff can be transmitted, see
>>>
>>> https://arundaleais.github.io/docs/ais/ais_message_types.html
>>>
>>> and if you want to really get to grips with it here’s the 148 page spec
>>>
>>> https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/m/R-REC-M.1371-5-201402-I!!PDF-E.pdf
>>>
>>> which leads me to ponder why trains can’t report their position accurately,
>>> rather than relying on proxy systems such as axle counters or track
>>> circuits. (Before folk chime up about not being able to see GPS satellites
>>> in cuttings etc, it is possible to rebroadcast GPS signals and use other
>>> radio beacon methods. Or balises)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Are you suggesting this as a replacement for track circuits/axle counters
>> in signalling, or in addition to?
>>
>> If it's as a replacement for, you'd have to be very very confident that the
>> reading wasn't even 1m out.
>>
>> I'm quite happy for the track to continue to report whether or not it's
>> occupied by a train.
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>>
>
> I’m not entirely sure what I’m proposing, more pondering.
>

I would be nervous of travelling on a train with only GPS. This can be,
and has been, spoofed to give inaccurate results, mainly as part of a
state's deliberate action.

--
Colin

On 20/02/2022 16:55, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 20/02/2022 16:32, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 20/02/2022 13:28, MB wrote:
>>>> On 20/02/2022 11:45, ColinR wrote:
>>>>> Interestingly the rail industry seems to be lagging. Air and marine
>>>>> transport already have significant monitoring equipment. In the marine
>>>>> field there are "black boxes" and AIS systems fitted to all commercial
>>>>> vessels. My understanding is that the airline industry have even more
>>>>> sophisticated gizmos.
>>>>
>>>> I think AIS is required above a certain size of vessel.
>>>>
>>>> I think they are like airlines and contract out management of the
>>>> vessel
>>>> to specialist companies who act as 24/7 contact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone know what parameters marine AIS reports, other than the obvious
>>> speed, course and position?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, here's an example. I took this shot on the bridge of one sailing
>> ship,
>> of its sister ship sailing in formation:
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/47237150552/in/album-72157707158652115/>
>>
>
>
> Did they have auxiliary power or just sail?
>>
>>  From memory, I think you can also get info on the crew and passenger
>> numbers.
>>
>
> I doubt they have sensors for those :-) That would be entered into the
> database at the beginning of the voyage. As would most of the
> information in panels 1, 3 and 4.
>
> Trying to decipher panel 2:
> CPA ? distance from something
> TCPA obviously time since something
> COG: Course Over Ground
> SOG: Speed Over Ground
> HDG: Heading
> ROT: Rate Of Turn (with direction)
> BRG: Bearing, presumably from your ship
> RNG: Range, (ditto)
>
> Panel 3 is self explanatory.
>
> Panel 4 The only one that might not be pre-entered is STATUS
>
> Panel 5 is self explanatory.
>
> Am I close? Colin perhaps?
>

I retired from sea-going service before AIS fully came into force so
cannot be certain, but others have advised most of the queries!

--
Colin

On 21/02/2022 14:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 21/02/2022 13:35, MB wrote:
>> On 21/02/2022 13:06, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> The Heart of Wales line has still not reopened in spite of a locomotive
>>> with chain saw crew on board for over two days.  How do you do that with
>>> an autonomous train?
>>
>> Same as with the very expensive helicopter that Network Rail use. You
>> do a survey and check where the man with chainsaw needs to go.
>>
>> Though would the union insist on one of their members driving an
>> autonomous railway vehicle?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> But you can't get the autonomous vehicle past the first tree until the
> men with the chainsaw turn up.
>

But a drone could alert the chainsaw crews of additional work required
further down the line!

--
Colin

On 21/02/2022 12:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 21/02/2022 11:04, MB wrote:
>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>
>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there
>> ever were.
>
> You've not been looking very carefully. They've even given up spreading
> out what they have got out to fill the gaps.
>

Not seen that up here - except on days when the ferries are not running
which is not unusual!

--
Colin

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>
>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever
>> were.
>
> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>
> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.

Similar here. There haven’t been pocket-sized packs of tissues for about a
month, and no brands other than basic Kleenex for a couple of weeks before
that.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 21/02/2022 15:45, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> How many miles of track can your autonomous vehicle check in a day compared
> to a helicopter? How can it get past the first blockage to find the next
> three?

Many more in the storm conditions of the last week when the helicopter
would br grounded. You could also afford to have several all checking
out different lines.

On 21/02/2022 21:50, ColinR wrote:
> I would be nervous of travelling on a train with only GPS. This can be,
> and has been, spoofed to give inaccurate results, mainly as part of a
> state's deliberate action.

I suspect most GPS spoofing in the UK is being done by drivers trying to
prevent their boss tracking them - I was told of one who was caught near
here.

On 21/02/2022 22:00, ColinR wrote:
> Not seen that up here - except on days when the ferries are not running
> which is not unusual!

Same here, if the A82 or A9 are blocked by snow or a RTA then the
shelves are cleared very quickly because they do not hold much stock.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 11:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:32:15 +0000
>martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>On 21/02/2022 10:23, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> Very little has gone to Paris and almost nothing to Frankfurt. In fact most
>>of
>>> the little the City has lost has gone to wall street rather kyboshing the
>>> plans of the hand rubbing Macron.
>>>
>>Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>
>>If the shelves are not back to normal by the end of the month it's brexit.
>
>Don't know where you live but here in london the only time stuff was missing
>from the shelves was when the muppets were panic buying at the start of
>lockdown. Other than that the shelves have been stocked full.
>
I get round several supermarkets in and around London. Nearly all have
had something clearly missing at some time resulting either in empty
shelves or thinned-out display of stock. There can also be significant
differences between supermarkets of the same company resulting in full
shelves in one but "out of stock" tickets for the same items in
others. Otherwise, the same firm will have different producers for the
same general item (e.g. milk, some meat/poultry etc. etc.) in
different branches with the above effect still occuring.

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>
>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever
>>> were.
>>
>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>
>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>
> Similar here. There haven’t been pocket-sized packs of tissues for about a
> month, and no brands other than basic Kleenex for a couple of weeks before
> that.
>
> Sam
>

Tissue products have been a specific issue. From The Grocer:

Matt Stone, marketing director at Kimberly-Clark, which owns the category’s
biggest brand, Kleenex, confirmed to The Grocer that supermarkets had been
experiencing “some availability challenges recently in the facial tissue
category, including our Kleenex tissues”.

“This has been mainly driven by ongoing Covid, transportation and other
supply chain disruptions, including a global shortage of cardboard.

“All of these short-term impacts affected operations at a period when
category demand is at its highest, leading to some availability
challenges.”

The tissue industry was also “struggling with high input costs such as
energy, natural gas, pulp, chemical products, and logistics”, Mintec
analyst Zanna Aleksahhina told The Grocer.

The wood-free paper market had “faced a drop of more than 25% in deliveries
in the UK in 2021 compared with two years ago”, she said.

In message <sv0og2$4aq$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:17:22 on Mon, 21 Feb
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>
>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever
>>> were.
>>
>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>
>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>
>Ranges are being cut to compete with Aldi and Lidl.

Yes, we know. But many of the cuts aren't because of that. It was widely
reported that supply chain issues were the reason that the number of
different sizes of fresh milk available was reduced. I know we have
Covid to deal with too, but last week my medium-sized local supermarket
had *no* blue-cap milk at all.

The lack of basic vegetables and chilled meats isn't in order to compete
with the Lidl 45 minutes drive away.

>Both Tesco and Sainsburys have scrapped their deli counters to reduce
>costs.

My Tesco has gone to 3-day working of the Deli counter, but that's a
"lack of demand" issue, not a "we can't get the stock, and a half-empty
deli counter looks stupid".

Similarly the Sainsburys has closed the deli counter, but it's not
sitting there looking empty, they've re-purposed the space.

The two stores have different strategies when stocks are short - Tesco
tends to spread out what they have, sideways; whereas Sainsbury's is
more likely to put out "Sorry" signs.

>Where price
>isn’t such an issue ranges are much as before, eg M&S and Waitrose. Was in
>Waitrose the other day and there were no gaps and a huge range of
>everything. Local big Tesco is fully stocked as is Lidl. Local farm shop
>has never run short of anything.
>
>Remember how we weren’t going to be able to get Turkeys at Christmas
>because of the lack of foreign meat processors etc? Also no pigs in blanket
>due to lack of staff to wrap the bacon round the sausage. In the event the
>shops were groaning with both.

Actually, my Tesco was doing pre-ordering for turkey (rather than having
them on the shelves; and while the "pigs in blankets" was mainly a
tabloid press metaphor, Tesco did have them spread in multiple places in
the store. I wonder what would have been on all those shelves a previous
Christmas?
--
Roland Perry

In message <sv13n3$r38$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:28:51 on Mon, 21 Feb
2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>
>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever
>>> were.
>>
>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>
>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>
>Similar here. There haven’t been pocket-sized packs of tissues for about a
>month, and no brands other than basic Kleenex for a couple of weeks before
>that.

One sees the opposite too, the Aldi over-ordered those £5 tins of
Quality Street, and two months later still has a couple of
palette-loads. It's gradually selling.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 01:51:07 +0000
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 11:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:32:15 +0000
>>martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>On 21/02/2022 10:23, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> Very little has gone to Paris and almost nothing to Frankfurt. In fact most
>
>>>of
>>>> the little the City has lost has gone to wall street rather kyboshing the
>>>> plans of the hand rubbing Macron.
>>>>
>>>Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>
>>>If the shelves are not back to normal by the end of the month it's brexit.
>>
>>Don't know where you live but here in london the only time stuff was missing
>>from the shelves was when the muppets were panic buying at the start of
>>lockdown. Other than that the shelves have been stocked full.
>>
>I get round several supermarkets in and around London. Nearly all have
>had something clearly missing at some time resulting either in empty
>shelves or thinned-out display of stock. There can also be significant
>differences between supermarkets of the same company resulting in full
>shelves in one but "out of stock" tickets for the same items in
>others. Otherwise, the same firm will have different producers for the
>same general item (e.g. milk, some meat/poultry etc. etc.) in
>different branches with the above effect still occuring.

There are always some stock lines missing in supermarkets. It has nothing to
do with the pandemic.

On 21/02/2022 23:13, MB wrote:
> On 21/02/2022 15:45, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> How many miles of track can your autonomous vehicle check in a day
>> compared
>> to a helicopter? How can it get past the first blockage to find the next
>> three?
>
> Many more in the storm conditions of the last week when the helicopter
> would br grounded.  You could also afford to have several all checking
> out different lines.
>

You don't want to fly the helo in the storm, that way you'd miss the
trees falling after you passed.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <sv27go$16r7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:39:52 on Tue, 22 Feb
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 01:51:07 +0000
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 11:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:32:15 +0000
>>>martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>On 21/02/2022 10:23, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> Very little has gone to Paris and almost nothing to Frankfurt. In
>>>>>fact most
>>
>>>>of
>>>>> the little the City has lost has gone to wall street rather kyboshing the
>>>>> plans of the hand rubbing Macron.
>>>>>
>>>>Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>>know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>>shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>>
>>>>If the shelves are not back to normal by the end of the month it's brexit.
>>>
>>>Don't know where you live but here in london the only time stuff was missing
>>>from the shelves was when the muppets were panic buying at the start of
>>>lockdown. Other than that the shelves have been stocked full.
>>>
>>I get round several supermarkets in and around London. Nearly all have
>>had something clearly missing at some time resulting either in empty
>>shelves or thinned-out display of stock. There can also be significant
>>differences between supermarkets of the same company resulting in full
>>shelves in one but "out of stock" tickets for the same items in
>>others. Otherwise, the same firm will have different producers for the
>>same general item (e.g. milk, some meat/poultry etc. etc.) in
>>different branches with the above effect still occuring.
>
>There are always some stock lines missing in supermarkets. It has nothing to
>do with the pandemic.

Whatever the cause, it never used to be the case. Apart from Aldi (and I
presume Lidl, but I don't have a handy one to go observe) who apparently
have a core stock of grocery[1] items comprising perhaps two thirds of
the shelf space, and the other third goes in and out of stock for quite
long periods with monotonous regularity.

Sliced black olives, and maple syrup, are two items I buy rasonably
often, and it's a complete lottery as to whether they have even an empty
shelf, let alone something completely different where it was last week.

Neither are particularly exotic, and both have long shelf lives (~3yrs),
and imported, so it's not a seasonal crop-picker thing.

The Xmas just gone I really fancied a Beef Wellington (which used to be
a staple in Aldi that time of year) but they seem to have deleted it
from their inventory.

[1] The "Special buys", about a quarter of the store, are in a different
class altogether.
--
Roland Perry

On 2022-02-21 11:43:51 +0000, Roland Perry said:

> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>
>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever were.
>
> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>
> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.

In the other direction, I've noticed several UK produced products that
used to be readily available in supermarkets in CH have disappeared
from the shelves.

Robin

On 2022-02-19 22:01:43 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:

> On 19/02/2022 11:57, Recliner wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 10:20, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> It'll be even worse when visas are needed as passengers will be stuck
>>>> airside at the airport.
>>>
>>> How many people had Canadian visas when much of the US air traffic was
>>> diverted to Canada after 9/11?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Most people (including Brits) don't need visas to visit Canada.
>>
> It depends on nationality, of course.

Requiring visas for entry is generally something that if one country
does it to another, gets reciprocated. Canada consistently ranks near
the top of the list of passports with visa-free access to the highest
number of countries, so it is likely that the reverse is true. In 2001
(and before), Canada allowed visa-free entry for all EU member states,
so that probably covers most of the passengers flying transatlantic
from Europe on that particular day.

Robin

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>>
>>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there ever
>>>> were.
>>>
>>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>>
>>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>>
>> Similar here. There haven’t been pocket-sized packs of tissues for about a
>> month, and no brands other than basic Kleenex for a couple of weeks before
>> that.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> Tissue products have been a specific issue. From The Grocer:
>
> Matt Stone, marketing director at Kimberly-Clark, which owns the category’s
> biggest brand, Kleenex, confirmed to The Grocer that supermarkets had been
> experiencing “some availability challenges recently in the facial tissue
> category, including our Kleenex tissues”.
>
> “This has been mainly driven by ongoing Covid, transportation and other
> supply chain disruptions, including a global shortage of cardboard.
>
> “All of these short-term impacts affected operations at a period when
> category demand is at its highest, leading to some availability
> challenges.”
>
> The tissue industry was also “struggling with high input costs such as
> energy, natural gas, pulp, chemical products, and logistics”, Mintec
> analyst Zanna Aleksahhina told The Grocer.
>
> The wood-free paper market had “faced a drop of more than 25% in deliveries
> in the UK in 2021 compared with two years ago”, she said.

Interesting - thank you. The Sainsbury’s own-brand 10-packs of pocket
sized tissues sold out weeks ago with the other brands and styles (Kleenex
balsam-y things) disappearing more slowly. I don’t know whether K-C
produce the own-brand stuff as well as the Kleenex brand products.

Thanks again,

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 22/02/2022 10:02, Bob wrote:
> On 2022-02-21 11:43:51 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>
>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>
>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there
>>> ever were.
>>
>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>
>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>
> In the other direction, I've noticed several UK produced products that
> used to be readily available in supermarkets in CH have disappeared from
> the shelves.
>

I wonder if people like Neil and Martin are more used to Express/Local
variants of supermarkets which have a restricted stock range in the
first place and limited shelving to display what they do have.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <sv2cc6$h8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:02:46 on Tue, 22 Feb
2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>On 2022-02-21 11:43:51 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>
>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>>2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going
>>>>
>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.

>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there
>>>ever were.

>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there
>>before).

>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>>virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>
>In the other direction, I've noticed several UK produced products that
>used to be readily available in supermarkets in CH have disappeared
>from the shelves.

Marmite was one that disappeared here for a while, not so much because
of supply chain issues, but being a by-product of brewing when most of
the pubs were shut because of lockdown.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sv2dru$r14$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:28:14 on Tue, 22 Feb
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 22/02/2022 10:02, Bob wrote:
>> On 2022-02-21 11:43:51 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>
>>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>>>2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>>
>>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there
>>>>ever were.
>>>
>>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>>
>>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>>>virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>> In the other direction, I've noticed several UK produced products
>>that used to be readily available in supermarkets in CH have
>>disappeared from the shelves.
>
>I wonder if people like Neil and Martin are more used to Express/Local
>variants of supermarkets which have a restricted stock range in the
>first place and limited shelving to display what they do have.

That's possible. Using Sunday opening as a proxy, I'm only talking about
those which are big enough to have to close at 4pm.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/02/2022 08:39, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 01:51:07 +0000
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 11:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:32:15 +0000
>>> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> On 21/02/2022 10:23, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> Very little has gone to Paris and almost nothing to Frankfurt. In fact most
>>
>>>> of
>>>>> the little the City has lost has gone to wall street rather kyboshing the
>>>>> plans of the hand rubbing Macron.
>>>>>
>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>>
>>>> If the shelves are not back to normal by the end of the month it's brexit.
>>>
>>> Don't know where you live but here in london the only time stuff was missing
>> >from the shelves was when the muppets were panic buying at the start of
>>> lockdown. Other than that the shelves have been stocked full.
>>>
>> I get round several supermarkets in and around London. Nearly all have
>> had something clearly missing at some time resulting either in empty
>> shelves or thinned-out display of stock. There can also be significant
>> differences between supermarkets of the same company resulting in full
>> shelves in one but "out of stock" tickets for the same items in
>> others. Otherwise, the same firm will have different producers for the
>> same general item (e.g. milk, some meat/poultry etc. etc.) in
>> different branches with the above effect still occuring.
>
> There are always some stock lines missing in supermarkets. It has nothing to
> do with the pandemic.
>
We'll find out next week now that the pandemic is over in England. If
there's still empty shelves then it's brexit.

On 22/02/2022 10:28, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 22/02/2022 10:02, Bob wrote:
>> On 2022-02-21 11:43:51 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>
>>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>>
>>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there
>>>> ever were.
>>>
>>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>>
>>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>>
>> In the other direction, I've noticed several UK produced products that
>> used to be readily available in supermarkets in CH have disappeared
>> from the shelves.
>>
>
> I wonder if people like Neil and Martin are more used to Express/Local
> variants of supermarkets which have a restricted stock range in the
> first place and limited shelving to display what they do have.

My nearest Express/Local supermarkets are further than main Tesco.
Morrisons, Aldi, Asda, and Lidl. I went into all of them yesterday and
all had empty shelves in the fruit and veg areas.

I also observed that Asda has also reduced their manly magazines and
have no transport related ones on the shelves which is obviously a
conscious decision to follow Tesco's example.

Morrisons' new owners have price gouged petrol which is now 4p per litre
more than it would have been compared to Tesco and Asda.

On 22/02/2022 12:08, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 22/02/2022 10:28, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 22/02/2022 10:02, Bob wrote:
>>> On 2022-02-21 11:43:51 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>>
>>>> In message <suvrje$5td$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:04:15 on Mon, 21 Feb
>>>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>> On 21/02/2022 10:32, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Once Johnson declares the covid crisis over this week we're going to
>>>>>> know for sure if covid or Brexit is causing the supermarket empty
>>>>>> shelves in supermarkets or the long queues for cross channel ferries.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have still not seen empty shelves or at least no more than there
>>>>> ever were.
>>>>
>>>> You are lucky (or have a poor memory of what used to be there before).
>>>>
>>>> The supermarkets round here have slimmed down their ranges, or have
>>>> virtually empty shelves where much fresh produce used to be.
>>>
>>> In the other direction, I've noticed several UK produced products
>>> that used to be readily available in supermarkets in CH have
>>> disappeared from the shelves.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if people like Neil and Martin are more used to Express/Local
>> variants of supermarkets which have a restricted stock range in the
>> first place and limited shelving to display what they do have.
>
> My nearest Express/Local supermarkets are further than main Tesco.
> Morrisons, Aldi, Asda, and Lidl.  I went into all of them yesterday and
> all had empty shelves in the fruit and veg areas.
>
> I also observed that Asda has also reduced their manly magazines and
> have no transport related ones on the shelves which is obviously a
> conscious decision to follow Tesco's example.
>
> Morrisons' new owners have price gouged petrol which is now 4p per litre
> more than it would have been compared to Tesco and Asda.

That's because they have a "7p/litre off when you spend £40" offer on
now, so they've raised the anchor price to balance the discount. Thanks
for the warning; I normally fill up at Morrisons but will avoid them
until they become cheaper than our local Shell again.