On 04/03/2022 12:47, AnthonyL wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 14:30:20 +0000, Mike <> wrote:
>
>> Just received notification from our supplier (SSE):
>>
>> Current Price until 31 March 2022 New Price from 1 April 2022
>> Standing Charge (per day) 24.11p 43.39p +80%
>> Standard Energy (per kWh) 20.68p 28.46p +38%
>> Offpeak Energy (per kWh) 17.58p 24.73p +41%
>>
>
> Just got mine through (Eon-Next), no contract, manual meter
>
> Electricity
>
> Standing charge (per day) 28.327 50.534 +78%
> Unit rate - Day (per kWh) 21.400 29.100 +36%
> Unit rate - Night (per kWh) 21.400 29.100 +36%
>
> Gas
>
> Standing charge (per day) 30.783 32.031 +4%
> Unit rate (per kWh) 4.200 7.670 +83%
>

Info - I just had notification about my increases, Octopus, credit
meters, DD

Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 37.653p +56.8%
Cost per kWh 29.232p +41.4%

Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.22%
Cost per kWh 7.3395p +83%

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07/03/2022 19:52, Andrew wrote:

>
> Why are electricity users being clobbered again with
> wholly unjustified standing charge increases ?. The fixed
> infrastructure is all paid for, surely ?.

If you average the cost of supply over all customers, it's cheaper per
unit to supply those with large consumption than those with small. It's
probably something like a parabolic curve. And the simplest way to
approximate it is with a fixed standing charge and a unit charge (i.e. a
straight line with a positive intercept. These days, more or less all
consumers are able to compare the offerings and decide which gives them
minimum overall cost.

On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 18:34:23 +0000, newshound wrote:

> These days, more or less all consumers are able to compare the
> offerings and decide which gives them minimum overall cost.

Try using the 'which' site , or confused.com

On 09/03/2022 18:07, alan_m wrote:

> Info - I just had notification about my increases, Octopus, credit
> meters, DD

> Electricity new rates
> Standing daily charge 37.653p +56.8%
> Cost per kWh 29.232p +41.4%

> Gas new rates
> Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.22%
> Cost per kWh 7.3395p +83%

Have you had Octopus' 10-month-fixed Loyalty offer, to run from 2nd April?

Electricity
Standing daily charge 25.66p
Cost per kWh 41.07p

Gas
Standing daily charge 26.10p
Cost per kWh 12.42p

Yearly cost to me (Octopus estimate) ~£4000

Non-smart meter, DD, switch tariffs at no cost and at any time.

Ten months from April 2nd takes the rates under this offer to the end of
January 2023, i.e. through most of the (high consumption) winter months
and over the coming October price-cap rise, thought to be severe. I'm
reviewing my typical consumption to see what the total costs of this
would be taking into account the alternative rates for April - October
and the likely rise in the cap in that latter month.

--
Spike

alan_m wrote:

>Info - I just had notification about my increases, Octopus, credit
>meters, DD
>
>Electricity new rates
>Standing daily charge 37.653p +56.8%
>Cost per kWh 29.232p +41.4%
>
>Gas new rates
>Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.22%
>Cost per kWh 7.3395p +83%

My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12

Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%

Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 10/03/2022 09:31, Spike wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 18:07, alan_m wrote:
>
>> Info - I just had notification about my increases, Octopus, credit
>> meters, DD
>
>> Electricity new rates
>> Standing daily charge 37.653p +56.8%
>> Cost per kWh 29.232p +41.4%
>
>> Gas new rates
>> Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.22%
>> Cost per kWh 7.3395p +83%
>
> Have you had Octopus' 10-month-fixed Loyalty offer, to run from 2nd April?
>
> Electricity
> Standing daily charge 25.66p
> Cost per kWh 41.07p
>
> Gas
> Standing daily charge 26.10p
> Cost per kWh 12.42p
>
> Yearly cost to me (Octopus estimate) ~£4000
>
> Non-smart meter, DD, switch tariffs at no cost and at any time.
>
> Ten months from April 2nd takes the rates under this offer to the end of
> January 2023, i.e. through most of the (high consumption) winter months
> and over the coming October price-cap rise, thought to be severe. I'm
> reviewing my typical consumption to see what the total costs of this
> would be taking into account the alternative rates for April - October
> and the likely rise in the cap in that latter month.
>
Significantly more that 54% for most customers, comparing like for like
consumption. 63% here.

PA

Peter Able wrote:

> Significantly more that 54% for most customers, comparing like for like > consumption.  63% here.

56% here

In article <j8usn9F96p8U1@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Peter Able wrote:

> > Significantly more that 54% for most customers, comparing like for
> > like > consumption. 63% here.

> 56% here

65% (combined) here. Was likely on the very best deal before thanks to
Flipper.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

> 65% (combined) here. Was likely on the very best deal before thanks to
> Flipper.

I was on an ancient UtilityPoint tariff, not available to new customers, even
though it was variable they hadn't actually varied it in at least two years, so
it had become an utter bargain.

The bill I've just had for the past 99 days with EDF is £478

Identical consumption at UtilityPoint price would have been £364

Identical consumption with EDFs new cap price will be £715

Overall from UtilityPoint's 2021 price to EDF's 2022 price, it will represent a
113% increase.

On 10/03/2022 19:31, Andy Burns wrote:
> Dave Plowman wrote:
>
>> 65% (combined) here. Was likely on the very best deal before thanks to
>> Flipper.
>
> I was on an ancient UtilityPoint tariff, not available to new customers,
> even though it was variable they hadn't actually varied it in at least
> two years, so it had become an utter bargain.
>
> The bill I've just had for the past 99 days with EDF is £478
>
> Identical consumption at UtilityPoint price would have been £364
>
> Identical consumption with EDFs new cap price will be £715
>
> Overall from UtilityPoint's 2021 price to EDF's 2022 price, it will
> represent a 113% increase.

You both seem to be exceptions. I was referring to like for like, so
same supplier and on a capped tariff both before and after 2nd April,
too. Should have made that clear. I'm not sure that this is understood
by the media.

That said, the UK wholesale gas price has fallen by about 35% in the
last few days, so who knows!

PA

Peter Able wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Dave Plowman wrote:
>>
>>> 65% (combined) here. Was likely on the very best deal before thanks to
>>> Flipper.
>>
>> Overall from UtilityPoint's 2021 price to EDF's 2022 price, it will represent
>> a 113% increase.
>
> You both seem to be exceptions.

Yes the 113% is only such a big difference because I was on a historic bargain
tariff before.

> I was referring to like for like, so same
> supplier and on a capped tariff both before and after 2nd April, too.

The difference in my EDF current cap to new cap will be 49% I think I generally
use less electricity than most, but about average gas, that might skew the
percentages.

> Should have made that clear.  I'm not sure that this is understood by the media.
> That said, the UK wholesale gas price has fallen by about 35% in the last few
> days, so who knows!

All the fixed deals since september-ish have been to reel in suckers to
subsidise the losses the energy dealers have been making, will there be any
competition appearing after April? It seems that octopus have started the ball
rolling by offering £50 under the cap.

On 12/03/2022 10:13, Andy Burns wrote:
> Peter Able wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Plowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> 65% (combined) here. Was likely on the very best deal before thanks to
>>>> Flipper.
>>>
>>> Overall from UtilityPoint's 2021 price to EDF's 2022 price, it will
>>> represent a 113% increase.
>>
>> You both seem to be exceptions.
>
> Yes the 113% is only such a big difference because I was on a historic
> bargain tariff before.
>
>> I was referring to like for like, so same supplier and on a capped
>> tariff both before and after 2nd April, too.
>
> The difference in my EDF current cap to new cap will be 49% I think I
> generally use less electricity than most, but about average gas, that
> might skew the percentages.
>
>>  Should have made that clear.  I'm not sure that this is understood by
>> the media.
>> That said, the UK wholesale gas price has fallen by about 35% in the
>> last few days, so who knows!
>
> All the fixed deals since september-ish have been to reel in suckers to
> subsidise the losses the energy dealers have been making, will there be
> any competition appearing after April?  It seems that octopus have
> started the ball rolling by offering £50 under the cap.

I'm actually with Octopus. Like for Like, Andy. It was cap minus £50
before Aril 2nd - and it will be cap minus £50 after.

I'm just trying to make an issue being totally misrepresented by the
media - clear.

PA

On 27/02/2022 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
> On 27/02/2022 18:16, critcher wrote:
>> how they can justify raising the standing charge I dont know.
>
> That annoyed me as well, but it was the best deal I could find (with the
> company we'd already been moved to).

All down to hiding taxes in fuel bills.

The standing charge covers the green levies, and also paying for all the
electricity companies which have gone bust and importing their
customers. I suspect this latter part has increased significantly just
recently.

So it's effectively a tax rise to cover the suppliers who offered deals
too good to be true and went bust. Perhaps this should have been levied
only on the former customers of those companies?

Andrew

In message <j93a1uF4ct2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:13:16 on Sat, 12
Mar 2022, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked:

>All the fixed deals since september-ish have been to reel in suckers to
>subsidise the losses the energy dealers have been making

The suppliers might have hoped that to be the case, but the one year
fixed deal I was offered and declined starting on 1st Jan (when my
previous fixed deal expired), was noticeably cheaper than what I'll be
paying when the new cap kicks in.

Thanks a lot, Martin Lewis.
--
Roland Perry

On 12/03/2022 13:06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> On 27/02/2022 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
>> On 27/02/2022 18:16, critcher wrote:
>>> how they can justify raising the standing charge I dont know.
>>
>> That annoyed me as well, but it was the best deal I could find (with
>> the company we'd already been moved to).
>
> All down to hiding taxes in fuel bills.
>
> The standing charge covers the green levies, and also paying for all the
> electricity companies which have gone bust and importing their
> customers. I suspect this latter part has increased significantly just
> recently.
>
> So it's effectively a tax rise to cover the suppliers who offered deals
> too good to be true and went bust. Perhaps this should have been levied
> only on the former customers of those companies?
>
> Andrew
the customer should have lost their money when the parasite companies
went bust.....

--
The bear missed the train, the bear missed the train and now he's walkin'

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> The standing charge covers the green levies

My standing charge for the past 99 days was 36.3% of my total gas+elec bill

If usage remained constant for the 99 days starting in April, standing charges
would go down to 33.8% of my total

so even though the pence per day figure has gone up, and disproportionately so
for electricity, they actually aren't gouging on standing charges ...

> and also paying for all the
> electricity companies which have gone bust and importing their customers. I
> suspect this latter part has increased significantly just recently.

I think £86/household (or was it £68 ?) of the typical rise on the price cap was
attributed to the SoLR charges; plus how much it's costing to sustain Bulb in
administration (wasn't that £1k/customer for 3 months? and no end in sight)

On 12/03/2022 13:06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> So it's effectively a tax rise to cover the suppliers who offered deals
> too good to be true and went bust. Perhaps this should have been levied
> only on the former customers of those companies?

+1 For the 2nd sentence. Either that or treat the failed suppliers
as any other failed company and let the people who lost their
credit join the list of creditors (and get nothing back).

Why should the 15 million who never switched get £85 added to their
bills to bail out the failures ?.

On 12/03/2022 10:13, Andy Burns wrote:
> Peter Able wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Plowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> 65% (combined) here. Was likely on the very best deal before thanks to
>>>> Flipper.
>>>
>>> Overall from UtilityPoint's 2021 price to EDF's 2022 price, it will
>>> represent a 113% increase.
>>
>> You both seem to be exceptions.
>
> Yes the 113% is only such a big difference because I was on a historic
> bargain tariff before.

Probably not that uncommon. We have gone from fixed price tariffs (with
two different companies that failed) to "protected" tariffs that were
higher with a single company and, as that protection has ended, we had a
choice of their (now rising) variable tariffs or new fixed ones. In
either case it meant around a 100% increase from our previous fixed tariffs.

> All the fixed deals since september-ish have been to reel in suckers to
> subsidise the losses the energy dealers have been making, will there be
> any competition appearing after April?  It seems that octopus have
> started the ball rolling by offering £50 under the cap.

The fixed deals that we managed to get in February, mean that we are
paying (a little) below what the variable rate tariffs will be from
April and a lot below what they are likely to be from October.
Unfortunately they will end in February again.

On 12/03/2022 13:32, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <j93a1uF4ct2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:13:16 on Sat, 12
> Mar 2022, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked:
>
>> All the fixed deals since september-ish have been to reel in suckers
>> to subsidise the losses the energy dealers have been making
>
> The suppliers might have hoped that to be the case, but the one year
> fixed deal I was offered and declined starting on 1st Jan (when my
> previous fixed deal expired), was noticeably cheaper than what I'll be
> paying when the new cap kicks in.
>
> Thanks a lot, Martin Lewis.

Yes, and he was recommanding a "MY BP" caard as way of saving mone.
Suely by not buying at BP you can save more (unless you don't actually pay)

Dave

On 12/03/2022 20:15, Andrew wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 13:06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
>> So it's effectively a tax rise to cover the suppliers who offered
>> deals too good to be true and went bust. Perhaps this should have been
>> levied only on the former customers of those companies?
>
> +1 For the 2nd sentence. Either that or treat the failed suppliers
> as any other failed company and let the people who lost their
> credit join the list of creditors (and get nothing back).
>
> Why should the 15 million who never switched get £85 added to their
> bills to bail out the failures ?.

It's basically a Conservative con-trick. Going back to Thatcher, they
encouraged competition for perhaps valid, but certainly ideological
reasons. They *pretend* to have strong regulation, to protect the
consumer. Arguably they encouraged competition in the retail market a
bit too much. Ultimately, a price cap just is not consistent with a free
market, hence the failures.

While a more left wing government would pass losses on to the taxpayer,
the Low Tax party has to do something else, and they chose to force them
on to the electricity user. Actually of course because practically
everyone pays tax and buys electricity, it doesn't make all that much
difference.

On 12/03/2022 20:15, Andrew wrote:

>
> Why should the 15 million who never switched get £85 added to their
> bills to bail out the failures ?.

Why should there be a price cap to protect people who have difficulty in
paying for the energy they use? Why should we be paying for the stealth
tax called warm house discount?

I got my outstanding credit back from a failed supplier. With the
current "levy" on standing charges I'll be paying it back within a
couple of years!

If it hadn't been for that guarantee I probably wouldn't have let the
amount of credit build up so much however if the company was still in
business it would have fallen to almost zero this time of year as most
of my gas usage is for central heating. I'm in the position where I can
easily afford to pay for lower bills in Summer and much higher bills in
Winter whereas it seems that a lot of people cannot manage this type of
financial control and want a constant monthly payment - hence a build up
of credit.

I suggest at the first sign of people losing any built up credit with a
failed energy company the big remaining suppliers would have been
inundated with claims for repayment of billions of built up credit on
their own books. This would probably have resulted in some of the
remaining companies going bust.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 10/03/2022 17:50, Peter Able wrote:
> On 10/03/2022 09:31, Spike wrote:
>> On 09/03/2022 18:07, alan_m wrote:

>>> Info - I just had notification about my increases, Octopus, credit
>>> meters, DD

>>> Electricity new rates
>>> Standing daily charge 37.653p +56.8%
>>> Cost per kWh 29.232p +41.4%

>>> Gas new rates
>>> Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.22%
>>> Cost per kWh 7.3395p +83%

>> Have you had Octopus' 10-month-fixed Loyalty offer, to run from 2nd April?

>> Electricity
>> Standing daily charge 25.66p
>> Cost per kWh 41.07p

>> Gas
>> Standing daily charge 26.10p
>> Cost per kWh 12.42p

>> Yearly cost to me (Octopus estimate) ~£4000

>> Non-smart meter, DD, switch tariffs at no cost and at any time.

>> Ten months from April 2nd takes the rates under this offer to the end of
>> January 2023, i.e. through most of the (high consumption) winter months
>> and over the coming October price-cap rise, thought to be severe. I'm
>> reviewing my typical consumption to see what the total costs of this
>> would be taking into account the alternative rates for April - October
>> and the likely rise in the cap in that latter month.

> Significantly more that 54% for most customers, comparing like for like
> consumption. 63% here.

Just ran a spreadsheet of my monthly consumption of gas and electricity
averaged over the last seven years, to compare Octopus' Loyalty 10-month
fixed offer with April's price-cap rise, over the period of April to
March 2023.

The fly in the ointment is the coming rise in October, so I ran the
spreadsheet for the twelve months April to March for variable percentage
increases of the April rates to apply from October, and compared the two
offers.

The April cap prices win out (cost less) for October rises in unit
prices and standing charges of up to 93 percent over the April cap. I
suspect that rises of this magnitude will cause riots in the streets and
governments to fall, so I'm not going to take up the 10-month Loyalty
fixed offer.

YMMV!

--
Spike

On 12/03/2022 13:06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> The standing charge covers the green levies, and also paying for all the
> electricity companies which have gone bust and importing their
> customers. I suspect this latter part has increased significantly just
> recently.

> So it's effectively a tax rise to cover the suppliers who offered deals
> too good to be true and went bust. Perhaps this should have been levied
> only on the former customers of those companies?

And in similar vein why do all of us have to pay the 'green levy' when
we'd rather have a guaranteed energy supply from the traditional generators?

If people want 'green energy'. let them pay the full cost of it, and
suffer the irregularity of supply - this winter there were two separate
weeks where the laughable renewables were struggling to supply 10
percent of demand. Freezing their balls off for a week at a time might
concentrate their minds on how thoughtless the renewables programme is.

--
Spike

On 12 Mar 2022 at 20:15:55 GMT, "Andrew" <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com>
wrote:

> On 12/03/2022 13:06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
>> So it's effectively a tax rise to cover the suppliers who offered deals
>> too good to be true and went bust. Perhaps this should have been levied
>> only on the former customers of those companies?
>
> +1 For the 2nd sentence. Either that or treat the failed suppliers
> as any other failed company and let the people who lost their
> credit join the list of creditors (and get nothing back).
>
> Why should the 15 million who never switched get £85 added to their
> bills to bail out the failures ?.

Well, they might as well nationalise energy utilities in tthat case. Save all
of this nonsense next time markets inevitably rip.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 13/03/2022 09:17, alan_m wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 20:15, Andrew wrote:
>
>>
>> Why should the 15 million who never switched get £85 added to their
>> bills to bail out the failures ?.
>

> I got my outstanding credit back from a failed supplier. With the
> current "levy" on standing charges I'll be paying it back within a
> couple of years!
>

ROFL. If you had worked out what you were really paying (because
your DD was deliberately too high) then you weren't saving
very much at all.

And you didn't get your credit 'back' from a failed supplier
because it had no money, which is why it failed. Just like all those
stupid people who fall for banking scams and 'move their money to a
safe account' you have been given money by the shareholders of your
new supplier.