On 17 May 2022 at 10:09:58 BST, "lacksey" <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
>> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
>> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
>> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
>> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
>
> But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.

Eh? The ones I've had have a float that cuts the motor out when the water
level drops below a certain level.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 10:12:50 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
> On 17 May 2022 at 10:09:58 BST, "lacksey" <lki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
> >> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
> >> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
> >> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
> >> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
> >> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
> >
> > But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.
> Eh? The ones I've had have a float that cuts the motor out when the water
> level drops below a certain level.
>
Yes, the one I linked to has a float switch and a thermal cutout. Almost
all of them do. It will also cope with solids up to 30mm diameter.

John

On 17 May 2022 at 10:29:58 BST, "John Walliker" <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 10:12:50 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
>> On 17 May 2022 at 10:09:58 BST, "lacksey" <lki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
>>>> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
>>>> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
>>>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
>>>> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
>>>> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
>>>
>>> But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.
>> Eh? The ones I've had have a float that cuts the motor out when the water
>> level drops below a certain level.
>>
> Yes, the one I linked to has a float switch and a thermal cutout. Almost
> all of them do. It will also cope with solids up to 30mm diameter.
>
> John

FWIW, I had a similar pump (tried 2, actually) to deal with washing machine
waste. Both failed after a few months, seemingly damaged by whatever washing
powder etc. does.

Replaced them with a Grundfos (rated to deal with a boil wash - the only one I
could find that would) which is an absolute brute. It empties the machine in a
few seconds. Got stuck once a few years back but a boot fixed it, and been
running fine for about 10 years at a wash a week, pumped from a cellar. Cost
about £200 mind.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 5/17/2022 5:02 AM, John Walliker wrote:
> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 01:09:51 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/16/2022 6:39 PM, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Latest part of the saga.
>>>>
>>>>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
>>>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
>>>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but it would empty it eventually.
>>>>
>>>> But might kill it working it that hard.
>>>>
>>>> You can hire decent pumps.
>>>
>>> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
>>>
>> The pump is one thing.
>>
>> But decent hose is the other. I was kinda shocked at how nice
>> the rental hose was. For a decent hose, you could pay 7x for
>> the hose needed (150 feet), compared to the cost of the cheesy pump.
>>
>> When I got the rental pump and hose, the hose was suction
>> compatible (won't collapse under suction). And that hose
>> design allows the pump to run at closer to its rating.
>>
>> The one thing I didn't get with the pump, was any extra fittings.
>> To pump water out of a yard, I needed a 90 degree angle fitting,
>> with (some sort of) standard fitting on the end. I went to the
>> Pump House (commercial) and they gave me one for free (as they
>> had a stock of junk). With the ninety degree, that prevented
>> the hose from getting kinked. If pumping a basement, with a
>> hose that rigid, a 90 degree fitting might still be needed.
>>
>> For home usage, I have inadequate hose ("lay flat" non-suction
>> hose), which requires extra pumping time. Turning a two hour job
>> into a day long job.
>>
>> Pumps with impellers, have to sit closer to what you want to pump.
>> Partially submersed (or for a good pump, totally submersed
>> and by a significant number of feet). For $500, you can get
>> a cast iron pump, just toss it into the water and ignore
>> it, it's that robust. But many other home pumps, you need to
>> be more careful with them, to not ruin them on the first go.
>>
>> Suction pumps with a piston, if I bought and paid for one of those,
>> I'd be careful about what kind of water I'd feed it, to protect the piston.
>> A piston pump could sit at grade, and a suction line run down into the
>> water.
>>
>> Pumps have a max inlet operating temp, and a pH range, but this
>> isn't usually an issue for a basement thing. The little pumps
>> rely on the flow of water around the pump jacket for cooling.
>> If the pump burns 500W, and the motor is decently efficient,
>> there's still a good amount of waste heat. Pumping cool water
>> is what it wants to do.
>>
>> The motor on some pumps are oil cooled. Oil held in the motor
>> winding area, acts as a thermal bridge to the internal jacket,
>> so the passing water can carry away the heat. The very first
>> pump I bought, the pump had been stored on its side in the
>> hardware store, and all the oil had run out. (This risks
>> destroying the motor on your very first usage, as the motor
>> will overheat without the internal oil fill.) The Pump House
>> had a bottle of oil suited for the job, and I refilled the
>> pump jacket before usage. If the cardboard box a pump comes
>> in, is soaked in oil, you've got a problem.
>>
>> For home hoses, you clean them after using them, so they
>> won't stink on storage. One of the reasons I don't use the
>> 2" line very often, is the cleaning and rolling procedure
>> is a back-breaker. If you had an assistant, it would be not
>> nearly as bad.
>>
>> There are *many* advantages to renting :-) For a once in a lifetime
>> burst pipe, you don't need to own the stuff. What *owning* the
>> items does for you, is in times of overland flooding, you
>> might have something you can use, when the rental is "all out".
>>
>> Paul
>
> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
> John
>

I suppose it depends on the situation.

Normally, in a flooding situation, most of the
parties want "action right now". And that's the
benefit of rental. And the rental stuff I got, was
better than anything I would ever own myself.

It's because I could start pumping almost immediately,
that I avoided a big mess. Some floor finish lifted
in the basement, from water ingress, but it wasn't enough
water for any fancy "recovery" process. (This was
water in the back yard, threatening to run into the
basement via basement window sill.)

The thing about pumping out a basement, is once
the water level drops, things will start to stink,
and you immediately have to start transporting materials
out of the basement to some other area. If the walls are
finished, the cladding has to come off, or... whatever.

The pumping bit, is just a small part of the adventure.
It's the easy part.

Paul

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 12:00:11 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 5:02 AM, John Walliker wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 01:09:51 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
> >> On 5/16/2022 6:39 PM, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
> >>>> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
> >>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Latest part of the saga.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> >>>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> >>>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> >>>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but it would empty it eventually.
> >>>>
> >>>> But might kill it working it that hard.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can hire decent pumps.
> >>>
> >>> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
> >>>
> >> The pump is one thing.
> >>
> >> But decent hose is the other. I was kinda shocked at how nice
> >> the rental hose was. For a decent hose, you could pay 7x for
> >> the hose needed (150 feet), compared to the cost of the cheesy pump.
> >>
> >> When I got the rental pump and hose, the hose was suction
> >> compatible (won't collapse under suction). And that hose
> >> design allows the pump to run at closer to its rating.
> >>
> >> The one thing I didn't get with the pump, was any extra fittings.
> >> To pump water out of a yard, I needed a 90 degree angle fitting,
> >> with (some sort of) standard fitting on the end. I went to the
> >> Pump House (commercial) and they gave me one for free (as they
> >> had a stock of junk). With the ninety degree, that prevented
> >> the hose from getting kinked. If pumping a basement, with a
> >> hose that rigid, a 90 degree fitting might still be needed.
> >>
> >> For home usage, I have inadequate hose ("lay flat" non-suction
> >> hose), which requires extra pumping time. Turning a two hour job
> >> into a day long job.
> >>
> >> Pumps with impellers, have to sit closer to what you want to pump.
> >> Partially submersed (or for a good pump, totally submersed
> >> and by a significant number of feet). For $500, you can get
> >> a cast iron pump, just toss it into the water and ignore
> >> it, it's that robust. But many other home pumps, you need to
> >> be more careful with them, to not ruin them on the first go.
> >>
> >> Suction pumps with a piston, if I bought and paid for one of those,
> >> I'd be careful about what kind of water I'd feed it, to protect the piston.
> >> A piston pump could sit at grade, and a suction line run down into the
> >> water.
> >>
> >> Pumps have a max inlet operating temp, and a pH range, but this
> >> isn't usually an issue for a basement thing. The little pumps
> >> rely on the flow of water around the pump jacket for cooling.
> >> If the pump burns 500W, and the motor is decently efficient,
> >> there's still a good amount of waste heat. Pumping cool water
> >> is what it wants to do.
> >>
> >> The motor on some pumps are oil cooled. Oil held in the motor
> >> winding area, acts as a thermal bridge to the internal jacket,
> >> so the passing water can carry away the heat. The very first
> >> pump I bought, the pump had been stored on its side in the
> >> hardware store, and all the oil had run out. (This risks
> >> destroying the motor on your very first usage, as the motor
> >> will overheat without the internal oil fill.) The Pump House
> >> had a bottle of oil suited for the job, and I refilled the
> >> pump jacket before usage. If the cardboard box a pump comes
> >> in, is soaked in oil, you've got a problem.
> >>
> >> For home hoses, you clean them after using them, so they
> >> won't stink on storage. One of the reasons I don't use the
> >> 2" line very often, is the cleaning and rolling procedure
> >> is a back-breaker. If you had an assistant, it would be not
> >> nearly as bad.
> >>
> >> There are *many* advantages to renting :-) For a once in a lifetime
> >> burst pipe, you don't need to own the stuff. What *owning* the
> >> items does for you, is in times of overland flooding, you
> >> might have something you can use, when the rental is "all out".
> >>
> >> Paul
> >
> > Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
> > when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
> > cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
> > https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
> > There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
> > However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
> > John
> >
> I suppose it depends on the situation.
>
> Normally, in a flooding situation, most of the
> parties want "action right now". And that's the
> benefit of rental. And the rental stuff I got, was
> better than anything I would ever own myself.
>
> It's because I could start pumping almost immediately,
> that I avoided a big mess. Some floor finish lifted
> in the basement, from water ingress, but it wasn't enough
> water for any fancy "recovery" process. (This was
> water in the back yard, threatening to run into the
> basement via basement window sill.)
>
> The thing about pumping out a basement, is once
> the water level drops, things will start to stink,
> and you immediately have to start transporting materials
> out of the basement to some other area. If the walls are
> finished, the cladding has to come off, or... whatever.
>
> The pumping bit, is just a small part of the adventure.
> It's the easy part.
>
> Paul

True enough, but at least this is clean water (or it was when it
entered the cellar).

John

In article <t5u5nr$4lh$1@dont-email.me>,
ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> If the supplier is not going to provide you with an earth you have to
> supply your installation with your own earth rod and RCD all the
> circuits for additional protection.

Oddly, was chatting to another old neighbour who lives across the road and
wanted chapter and verse on what was going on. She is in her eighties too
- and taking the sun outdoors in the front garden. Got her electric story
- about how they had had three earth rods fitted. Amazing what some old
ladies are interested in.

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <kKqdnXGMA-FdRh__nZ2dnUU7-f-dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 00:07, Rod Speed wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:39:40 +1000, Colin Bignell
> > <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
> >>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
> >>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
> >>>
> >>>>> Latest part of the saga.
> >>>
> >>>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> >>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
> >>>>> stored
> >>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs
> >>>>> pumped out
> >>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive
> >>>> publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend
> >>>> you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine
> >>>> pump, but it would empty it eventually.
> >
> >>> But might kill it working it that hard.
> >
> >>> You can hire decent pumps.
> >
> >> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
> >
> > Dunno, Pimlico would have cost more than a hired pump.

> The insurers are paying for the plumbers.

Not sure, but think they're only going to pay to have it pumped out, not
repaired.

Given the time they've taken it will likely have dried out all on it's
own. If the original very rough concrete floor. Mine used to let water in
via the coal hole - but it soon dried up.

> --

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/05/2022 10:12, RJH wrote:
> On 17 May 2022 at 10:09:58 BST, "lacksey" <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
>>> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
>>> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
>>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
>>> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
>>> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
>>
>> But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.
>
> Eh? The ones I've had have a float that cuts the motor out when the water
> level drops below a certain level.
>

No problem with electric cutting out, because there isn't any, it's
been disconnected :-)

On 16/05/2022 18:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t5tvle$j4j$1@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> It's possible the mains
>>> earth is now on the house side of the stop cock
>
>> Which is the correct side.
>
> Indeed with modern practice. But not when that house was wired, and the
> water main provided the earth.
>

And of course main equipotential bonding is not there to stop people in
water getting a shock:-) It's for then you lose the neutral.

On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>>>
>>
>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
>
> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
> decimal stuff.

:-)

I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.

I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help.

On 17/05/2022 18:30, ARW wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
>>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get
>>>>>> a sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon
>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
>>
>> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
>> decimal stuff.
>
> :-)
>
> I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.
>
> I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
> G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help.

In my 2nd edition there is a slip of paper from Rank Wharfedale
showing their book prices.

Aerial Handbook (semi-stiff) 75p (95p post paid)
Ditto (cloth bound) £1.13 (£1.43 post paid).

So you splashed out :-)

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 19:57:05 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 18:30, ARW wrote:
> > On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
> >>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
> >>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>>> ...
> >>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
> >>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get
> >>>>>> a sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
> >>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon
> >>>> experience.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
> >>
> >> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
> >> decimal stuff.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.
> >
> > I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
> > G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help..
> In my 2nd edition there is a slip of paper from Rank Wharfedale
> showing their book prices.
>
> Aerial Handbook (semi-stiff) 75p (95p post paid)
> Ditto (cloth bound) £1.13 (£1.43 post paid).
>
> So you splashed out :-)

I just found a gardening book that cost 1/6, 7.5p in modern money.

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:11:18 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Back story.
> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
> Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
> have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
> of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
> day, though.
>
> Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
> cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
> bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
>
> Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
> meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
>
> Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
> ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
> protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
> now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
> meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
> gas fire in the kitchen which works.
>
> She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
> for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
> anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
> calls.
>
> The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
>
> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
> the kids got was 12K.
>
> Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
> connected to it that would be good enough for now.
>
> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
> quickly.
>
> --
> *Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *
>
> Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.
This story has rumbled on and on. Surely it would have been simple to beg, borrow, hire or even buy a cheap submersible pump and a roll of layflat or better hose from ebay and simply pump the cellar out already using an extension lead from next door? Once empty the remaining problems could be addressed in a timely and sensible manner. We are supposed to be a d-i-y group after all.

On 17/05/2022 22:28, Animal wrote:
> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 19:57:05 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 18:30, ARW wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
>>>>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get
>>>>>>>> a sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>>>>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon
>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
>>>>
>>>> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
>>>> decimal stuff.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.
>>>
>>> I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
>>> G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help.
>> In my 2nd edition there is a slip of paper from Rank Wharfedale
>> showing their book prices.
>>
>> Aerial Handbook (semi-stiff) 75p (95p post paid)
>> Ditto (cloth bound) £1.13 (£1.43 post paid).
>>
>> So you splashed out :-)
>
> I just found a gardening book that cost 1/6, 7.5p in modern money.

I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.

--
Colin Bignell

On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.

I can remember it cheaper than that I think - under 2/-
Or was it under 5/- ?

--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:30:09 +0100, ARW wrote:

> On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
>>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon
>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
>>
>> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
>> decimal stuff.
>
> :-)
>
> I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.
>
> I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
> G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help.

I have a second edition copy of 'The Motorists Workshop' published by
Temple Press - dunno what the date is but looking at the illustrations
and text I'd guess at 1920's/1930's. References to Cyclecars, running
boards and converting coach houses and stables to garages and workshops.

It cost 1/- net when new.

Its invaluable for its guidance on resolving issues with the digital
clock in my current vehicle.

On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:

> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>

But can you remember how much you earned every week when petrol was
that price ?.

Also cars also had very poor fuel economy back then too and also had
to have the head removed to 'decoke the valves' regularly as well.

On 18/05/2022 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost
>> half that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>
> I  can remember it cheaper than that I think - under 2/-
> Or was it under 5/- ?
>
>
Did you get Green Shield stamps with it though?

--
Colin Bignell

On 18/05/2022 11:53, Andrew wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>
>> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost
>> half that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>>
>
> But can you remember how much you earned every week when petrol was
> that price ?.

£630 a year IIRC.

> Also cars also had very poor fuel economy back then too and also had
> to have the head removed to 'decoke the valves' regularly as well.

--
Colin Bignell

In article <f-2dnc39A7PCMRn_nZ2dnUU7-R_NnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.

Crikey. And thought I was old. While still at school an older pal and I
bought an Austin 7 for £12 10s. Tank took 5 gallons, and you could fill it
(with commercial petrol) for a quid. At the local garage too - as they all
charged the same.

--
*Why isn't there a special name for the back of your knee?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <f1ce3e19-cbd2-49a8-832c-fef135b58ff5n@googlegroups.com>,
John J <johnjessop46@gmail.com> wrote:
> This story has rumbled on and on. Surely it would have been simple to
> beg, borrow, hire or even buy a cheap submersible pump and a roll of
> layflat or better hose from ebay and simply pump the cellar out already
> using an extension lead from next door? Once empty the remaining
> problems could be addressed in a timely and sensible manner. We are
> supposed to be a d-i-y group after all.

Thanks for not reading my post.

If the decisions were just mine I'd have asked for advice on specific
points.

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:30:14 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
> > On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
> >> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
> >>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
> >>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
> >>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
> >>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
> >
> > Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
> > decimal stuff.
> :-)
>
> I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.
>
> I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
> G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help.

Gilbert Briggs, presumably?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Briggs

"A proud Yorkshireman" - ha!

On 18/05/2022 11:54, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost
>>> half that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>>
>> I  can remember it cheaper than that I think - under 2/-
>> Or was it under 5/- ?
>>
>>
> Did you get Green Shield stamps with it though?
>
Not till much later. Possible Dad got embassy cigarette coupons - he got
a Black and Decker drill with those, that lasted till it died in 1980...

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

In article <t62j7d$5qs$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:

> > I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> > that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
> >

> But can you remember how much you earned every week when petrol was
> that price ?.

I, too, remember petrol at about that price, but my father was buying it.
By the time I had a car and buying for myself,it was 4/11d a gallon.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In message <59eaa081f8charles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
<charles@candehope.me.uk> writes
>In article <t62j7d$5qs$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>
>> > I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
>> > that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>> >
>
>> But can you remember how much you earned every week when petrol was
>> that price ?.
>
>
>I, too, remember petrol at about that price, but my father was buying it.
>By the time I had a car and buying for myself,it was 4/11d a gallon.

As an apprentice, I earned £4.8/- per week. Petrol was 4/6p. 1962
>

--
Tim Lamb