Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 02:34:33 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> We've enjoyed a high
>> level of technology, the internal combustion engine, and (in the UK) a
>> functional National Health Service. With the breakdown of civilisation
>> in the Middle East and north Africa causing refugee migration, and
>> global warming causing climate migration, the collapse of insect life,
>> the pollution of just about everything by microplastics, and in the UK
>> the rise of a totalitarian one-party state and the death of the NHS, I
>> think my parents might have timed their deaths quite well (2014 and
>> 2016). The world that my 25-year-old stepson lives in until the end of
>> his days is likely to be far inferior to the world that I have
>> (generally) enjoyed.
>
> This has generally been the lament of every generation through the
> ages, though. There's no reason to think our kids won't be as
> inventive as (some of us) were

I was going to write something similar but couldn’t be arsed. I’m of the
generation my parents moaned about.

On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 10:28:27 AM UTC, Champ wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 02:07:08 -0800 (PST), Dave Brown
> <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >> > If you can't support that many and live in a council house on benefits, that may be a different matter.
> >>
> >> Why should somebody poor have less right to reproduce and fuck the
> >> planet than somebody rich? Limit families to one child for everyone,
> >> rich or poor, and try to get the human pollution, er, population of this
> >> planet down.
>
> >Because they are poor, and can't keep themselves in cider and tabs, let alone look after a screaming shit machine.
> >If the offspring survive then they are just going to grow up as delinquent neds, smoking crack and stealing mopeds.
> Boris, is that you?

Boris - child advice - I think not.

He'll just keep randomly popping out privileged offspring, to be raised by nanny, shipped off to public school, and become yet another faux upper class drain on society.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:25:57 +0000, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 02:34:33 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>We've enjoyed a high
>>level of technology, the internal combustion engine, and (in the UK) a
>>functional National Health Service. With the breakdown of civilisation
>>in the Middle East and north Africa causing refugee migration, and
>>global warming causing climate migration, the collapse of insect life,
>>the pollution of just about everything by microplastics, and in the UK
>>the rise of a totalitarian one-party state and the death of the NHS, I
>>think my parents might have timed their deaths quite well (2014 and
>>2016).

Sorry, when are all those things supposed to happen? Are these just
your predictions for the futre, or do you think they're all real now?

Some of them are no more or less evident now than they were forty or
more years ago, like Middle East (or Africa, Asia) wars and refugee
problems. I'm sure you remember the Biafra and Bangladesh wars, Idi
Amin, Vietnam (remember the "boat People"), etc. etc.

As for the UK being a totalitarian state, that's laughable. Anyone
who's ever lived in one would regard the UK as it is now as a bastion
of civilisation and calm, with an excellent health service free to
all. Things may not seem as good as your rose-tinted memories, but so
much is actually so much better than it was that I think the current
generation are at least equally blessed as we were.

>>The world that my 25-year-old stepson lives in until the end of
>>his days is likely to be far inferior to the world that I have
>>(generally) enjoyed.

Naah. He won't have to live with the fear of nuclear war or the daily
struggle to make ends meet that was very much a part of most people's
lives. He lives in an era of peace and luxury, the like of which has
never been seen before. Lucky him, I say.

>This has generally been the lament of every generation through the
>ages, though.

Quite so. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be, eh?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:27:53 +0000, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On 10 Dec 2021 09:59:00 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>> An Indian Indian, or a Natvie American?
>
>>> If I'd meant the indigenous people of north America then I would have
>>> said so.
>
>>S'funny. Here in furrin, an Indian is a native of North America. A native
>>of India (Hindustan) is Hindu. I was on a jolly a couple of years ago and
>>asked where the local indian restaurant was to be found, they all looked
>>blank. I had to ask for the hindu restaurant.
>
>That may well be the way it is in Spanish culture, but it's obviously
>wrong. Hindu is primarily a religion, and there's a plenty of other
>religions in India, and India is way bigger than Hindustan

Sure, but the word India is itself a derivation from Hindu/i, so I
wouldn't say the Spanish were 'wrong' for using the older term.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:24:17 +0000, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:31:01 -0800 (PST), Hog <york996@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> It's just Hog doing his normal trolling.
>
>>Misuse of "troll" in usenet really isn't on, old bean.
>
>If it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, and quacks like a
>troll....it's Hog

Sometimes I think that he genuinely believes what he's saying. Then
again, sometimes he stretches even my credulity.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 09/12/2021 16:34, Champ wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:55:01 +0000, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2021 20:12, WUN wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 5:52:55 PM UTC, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ... just towns with less than 5000 inhabitants.
>
>>> "fewer".
>
>> I approve this message.
>
> "approve of"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20approve%20this%20message

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 2:34:38 AM UTC, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 19:31, Hog wrote:
> > On Thursday, 9 December 2021 at 16:12:26 UTC, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, 9 December 2021 at 15:26:00 UTC, CT wrote:
> >>> Hog wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> It's the fairly recent Westernised concept of "retirement" that
> >>>> needs to be scrapped
> >>> FRO!
> >> It's just Hog doing his normal trolling. Keeps him amused during his retirement.
> >
> > Misuse of "troll" in usenet really isn't on, old bean. We expect low standards in the other place but not here. As is insinuating that I am underutilised! how very dare you.
> > Don't contribute to the decline of civilisation, I do believe we lived through the very peak of it btw.
> >
> > FWIW do you deny that it's already happening? retirement ages are being pushed up, life expectancy is coming back down. All the while house prices are rising for those entering the workplace, mortgages will prevent most from saving enough and there will be no "downsizing" from the shoe box they could afford.
> I'm reluctant to say this, but I agree with Hog. We've enjoyed a high
> level of technology, the internal combustion engine, and (in the UK) a
> functional National Health Service. With the breakdown of civilisation
> in the Middle East and north Africa causing refugee migration, and
> global warming causing climate migration, the collapse of insect life,
> the pollution of just about everything by microplastics, and in the UK
> the rise of a totalitarian one-party state and the death of the NHS, I
> think my parents might have timed their deaths quite well (2014 and
> 2016). The world that my 25-year-old stepson lives in until the end of
> his days is likely to be far inferior to the world that I have
> (generally) enjoyed.

I think your parents set a shining example...... If I found myself agreeing with Hog it's certainly an option to consider.

On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 02:34:38 UTC, Mike Fleming wrote:

> the pollution of just about everything by microplastics, and in the UK
> the rise of a totalitarian one-party state and the death of the NHS

You were going quite well until you embarrased yourself. Complete nonesense.
--
Hog
2020 SD-R '89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

On 10/12/2021 16:08, Hog wrote:
> On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 02:34:38 UTC, Mike Fleming wrote:
>
>> the pollution of just about everything by microplastics, and in the UK
>> the rise of a totalitarian one-party state and the death of the NHS
>
> You were going quite well until you embarrased yourself. Complete nonesense.

I'm not in the slightest embarrassed. We shall see.

On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 10:24:20 UTC, Champ wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:31:01 -0800 (PST), Hog <yor...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> It's just Hog doing his normal trolling.
> >Misuse of "troll" in usenet really isn't on, old bean.
> If it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, and quacks like a
> troll....it's Hog

Not sharing lamentable opinions on a number of things isn't "trolling". Neither is extracting the michael, shirly it's an obligation. It's a modern social media delusion of the herd animals.
I don't know (either) why you think anyone else wouldn't mention their (obviously superior and sometimes contrary) opinions....

But then neither am I a narcissist who thinks my random opinions are generally important, so I've never trudged the streets of London fooling myself that they were. I suck it up, minimise personal impact, carry on having a jolly good time, while doing good.

Also avoiding sounding like a permanently miserable cunt.
--
Hog
2020 SD-R '89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:45:59 +0000, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:

>On 09/12/2021 16:34, Champ wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:55:01 +0000, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/12/2021 20:12, WUN wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 5:52:55 PM UTC, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ... just towns with less than 5000 inhabitants.
>>
>>>> "fewer".
>>> I approve this message.
>> "approve of"

>https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20approve%20this%20message

Yes, yes, I'm aware of the derivation.

But does that mean that WUN is financially contributing to your
political campaign to <checks notes> become an elected United States
official?
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:56:55 +0100, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>Sorry, when are all those things supposed to happen? Are these just
>your predictions for the futre, or do you think they're all real now?
>
>Some of them are no more or less evident now than they were forty or
>more years ago, like Middle East (or Africa, Asia) wars and refugee
>problems. I'm sure you remember the Biafra and Bangladesh wars, Idi
>Amin, Vietnam (remember the "boat People"), etc. etc.

Billy Joel even wrote a song about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:58:20 +0100, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>>>S'funny. Here in furrin, an Indian is a native of North America. A native
>>>of India (Hindustan) is Hindu. I was on a jolly a couple of years ago and
>>>asked where the local indian restaurant was to be found, they all looked
>>>blank. I had to ask for the hindu restaurant.

>>That may well be the way it is in Spanish culture, but it's obviously
>>wrong. Hindu is primarily a religion, and there's a plenty of other
>>religions in India, and India is way bigger than Hindustan

>Sure, but the word India is itself a derivation from Hindu/i, so I
>wouldn't say the Spanish were 'wrong' for using the older term.

Well. Every day's a school day
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:32:17 -0800 (PST), Dave Brown
<browniebrownz@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 10:28:27 AM UTC, Champ wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 02:07:08 -0800 (PST), Dave Brown

>> >Because they are poor, and can't keep themselves in cider and tabs, let alone look after a screaming shit machine.
>> >If the offspring survive then they are just going to grow up as delinquent neds, smoking crack and stealing mopeds.

>> Boris, is that you?

>Boris - child advice - I think not.

heh

>He'll just keep randomly popping out privileged offspring, to be raised by nanny, shipped off to public school, and become yet another faux upper class drain on society.

I was referring to:
Writing in the Spectator in 1995, Johnson also lamented what he called
“feckless” working class men and described the children of single mums
as “ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate”
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 11:56:58 UTC, Ace wrote:
>
> Some of them are no more or less evident now than they were forty or
> more years ago, like Middle East (or Africa, Asia) wars and refugee
> problems. I'm sure you remember the Biafra and Bangladesh wars, Idi
> Amin, Vietnam (remember the "boat People"), etc. etc.

One hesitates to be the VOR but human overpopulation is a disaster, destroying the environment in multiple parts of the world, responsible for widespead species extinction, contributing to a changing of the global climate. This is new and unique and people, particulary those under 25, have due cause to be alarmed.

China, India, Philippines, Indonesia, parts of South America and East Asia are already significantly ruined and Africa is sinking fast.

Has this passed you by?
--
Hog
2020 SD-R '89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

El Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:58:20 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:27:53 +0000, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 10 Dec 2021 09:59:00 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>> An Indian Indian, or a Natvie American?
>>
>>>> If I'd meant the indigenous people of north America then I would have
>>>> said so.
>>
>>>S'funny. Here in furrin, an Indian is a native of North America. A
>>>native of India (Hindustan) is Hindu. I was on a jolly a couple of
>>>years ago and asked where the local indian restaurant was to be found,
>>>they all looked blank. I had to ask for the hindu restaurant.
>>
>>That may well be the way it is in Spanish culture, but it's obviously
>>wrong. Hindu is primarily a religion, and there's a plenty of other
>>religions in India, and India is way bigger than Hindustan
>
> Sure, but the word India is itself a derivation from Hindu/i, so I
> wouldn't say the Spanish were 'wrong' for using the older term.

I got told by an Indian guy a couple of years ago, that Hindu is nothing
to do with religion. It's a nationality that happens to practise the
religion of hinduism. His words.

Of course, this might just be arrogance on his part (high caste).
Probably most Spanish people would say that they are all catlicks. I have
been referred to as "christian", which I find offensive.

I may have said this before, but when I arrived here they wanted to know
what my name was "en cristiano" - since then I've been Pablo. There are
only christians and moros. However, I doubt this is predominant thinking
in the country as a whole. Just down here in Al Ándalus.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 16:31:43 UTC, Champ wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:56:55 +0100, Ace <A...@ch.com> wrote:

> >Some of them are no more or less evident now than they were forty or
> >more years ago, like Middle East (or Africa, Asia) wars and refugee
> >problems. I'm sure you remember the Biafra and Bangladesh wars, Idi
> >Amin, Vietnam (remember the "boat People"), etc. etc.
> Billy Joel even wrote a song about it
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

So did Patrik Fitzgerald: 'Irrelevant Battles'.

Not sure I agree with it as much as I did in 1979 but it was certainly
prescient.

On 12/10/2021 8:29 AM, Champ wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:45:59 +0000, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2021 16:34, Champ wrote:
>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:55:01 +0000, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/12/2021 20:12, WUN wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 5:52:55 PM UTC, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... just towns with less than 5000 inhabitants.
>>>
>>>>> "fewer".
>
>>>> I approve this message.
>
>>> "approve of"
>
>> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20approve%20this%20message
>
> Yes, yes, I'm aware of the derivation.
>
> But does that mean that WUN is financially contributing to your
> political campaign to <checks notes> become an elected United States
> official?
>
It's not the OED, but Cambridge is close enough:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/approve

IMHO, either is appropriate. As an organization with rather unique
posting standards, anyone might assert authority. Or just state an opinion.
Personally, I find the extraneous preposition superfluous. But that's
just me.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:29:23 PM UTC, Champ wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:45:59 +0000, Eddie <ed...@deguello.org> wrote:
>
> >On 09/12/2021 16:34, Champ wrote:
> >> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:55:01 +0000, Eddie <ed...@deguello.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 08/12/2021 20:12, WUN wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 5:52:55 PM UTC, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ... just towns with less than 5000 inhabitants.
> >>
> >>>> "fewer".
>
> >>> I approve this message.
>
> >> "approve of"
>
> >https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20approve%20this%20message
> Yes, yes, I'm aware of the derivation.
>
> But does that mean that WUN is financially contributing to your
> political campaign to <checks notes> become an elected United States
> official?

I am not. I cannot speak for Eddie.

--
WUN

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:36:41 -0800, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>IMHO, either is appropriate. As an organization with rather unique
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
>posting standards,

I'm afraid that disqualifies you from any further input to questions
of language usage.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:23:55 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:36:41 -0800, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>>IMHO, either is appropriate. As an organization with rather unique
> ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
>>posting standards,
>
> I'm afraid that disqualifies you from any further input to questions of
> language usage.

Is that for quantifying uniqueness or for the american spelling?

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 11 Dec 2021 10:24:06 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>El Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:23:55 +0100, Ace escribió:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:36:41 -0800, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>IMHO, either is appropriate. As an organization with rather unique
>> ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
>>>posting standards,
>>
>> I'm afraid that disqualifies you from any further input to questions of
>> language usage.
>
>
>Is that for quantifying uniqueness

For qualifying it, you mean.

>or for the american spelling?

Apparently there's nothing wrong or specifically American about the
"ize" ending; the preferred spelling according to the OED.

Personally I use "ise" out of preference. Always used to have to add
words so spelled to US American spellcheckers - using a UK dictionary
in a work environment when dealing predominantly with USians was too
much like hard work.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 11/12/2021 11:04, Ace wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2021 10:24:06 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> or for the american spelling?
>
> Apparently there's nothing wrong or specifically American about the
> "ize" ending; the preferred spelling according to the OED.

And Inspector Morse, although as he confused "imply" and "infer", I'm
not convinced about his linguistic standards.

> Personally I use "ise" out of preference. Always used to have to add
> words so spelled to US American spellcheckers - using a UK dictionary
> in a work environment when dealing predominantly with USians was too
> much like hard work.

There's a new addition to the system that I work on called "licence
plates", with a facility provided by a German 3rd party supplier. Well,
it's called "licence plates" by me because I know how to spell, and
"license plates" by almost everyone else. Education is so hard. And at
my previous employer, I worked alongside a colleague who invariably used
the wrong spelling of "stationery", and who pluralised "quarry" as
"quarry's" (but it was me who got made redundant, not him).

El Sat, 11 Dec 2021 12:04:46 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On 11 Dec 2021 10:24:06 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>Is that for quantifying uniqueness
>
> For qualifying it, you mean.

I've lost my OED login, but I'm talking about determining the quantity or
degree of something.

It's unique or it ain't. No degrees.

From the yank dictionary:

Definition of quantify
transitive verb

1a(1): to limit by a quantifier
(2): to bind by prefixing a quantifier
b: to make explicit the logical quantity of
2: to determine, express, or measure the quantity of
Examples of quantify in a Sentence
It is difficult to quantify intelligence.
Doctors have quantified the risks of smoking cigarettes.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:15:08 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>And at
>my previous employer, I worked alongside a colleague who invariably used
>the wrong spelling of "stationery", and who pluralised "quarry" as
>"quarry's" (but it was me who got made redundant, not him).

You worked at a greengrocers?
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old