On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 09:45:56 +0100
Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>On 03/10/2023 09:27, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> IME of how software development is done these days, the apps and web front
>end
>> are usually written by kids not long out of uni, the backend side is written
>by
>> the grown ups.
>>
>Which summarises the problem nicely.
>
>Their crummy front ends are the public face of their company.

Believe me, it would be a lot worse if it was the other way around. Luckily
the kids arn't interested in doing backend, graphics free often command line
driven work plus they don't learn the required skills at uni and college
these days it seems. Ask them what database normalisation or foreign keys are
and you'd just get a blank stare.

On 03/10/2023 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 09:45:56 +0100
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 03/10/2023 09:27, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> IME of how software development is done these days, the apps and web front
>> end
>>> are usually written by kids not long out of uni, the backend side is written
>> by
>>> the grown ups.
>>>
>> Which summarises the problem nicely.
>>
>> Their crummy front ends are the public face of their company.
>
> Believe me, it would be a lot worse if it was the other way around. Luckily
> the kids arn't interested in doing backend, graphics free often command line
> driven work plus they don't learn the required skills at uni and college
> these days it seems. Ask them what database normalisation or foreign keys are
> and you'd just get a blank stare.

That's my experience too, though fortunately the "kids" sending requests
to my server code were relatively skilled and experienced.

On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49 on
> Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>
>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>> amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready on
>> the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>
> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require someone
> with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of it down and
> retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.

And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 03/10/2023 17:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49 on Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>
>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>>
>> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require someone with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of it down and retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>
> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?

You can hold a paper ticket in your teeth.

--
Clive Page

In message <ufhdvf$3kk0p$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:02:55 on Tue, 3 Oct
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49
>>on Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>remarked:
>>
>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready on
>>>the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.

>> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>someone with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of it
>>down and retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>
>And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?

They could hold it in the same hand as pulling their trolley bag, or
even in their teeth. And it doesn't require logging into either. I
sometimes tuck my paper ticket into by sock, which I couldn't do with a
phone.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/10/2023 18:13, Clive Page wrote:
> On 03/10/2023 17:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49
>>> on Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>
>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>> amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready
>>>> on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>>>
>>> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>> someone with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of it
>>> down and retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>
>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?
>
> You can hold a paper ticket in your teeth.

You can also hold a phone in your teeth. However, pressing the 37
buttons[1] required to make it display the proof of purchase is
beyond the dexterity of the average tongue.

[1] Yes, resident tech expert, I know modern phones are normally
operated by touching the screen rather than pressing physical buttons.

On 03/10/2023 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <ufhdvf$3kk0p$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:02:55 on Tue, 3 Oct
> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49
>>> on  Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>
>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>> amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready
>>>> on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>
>>>  Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>> someone  with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of
>>> it down and  retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>
>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?
>
> They could hold it in the same hand as pulling their trolley bag, or
> even in their teeth. And it doesn't require logging into either. I
> sometimes tuck my paper ticket into by sock, which I couldn't do with a
> phone.

So you have to put all your luggage down and bend down to retrieve
something from your sock? You are definitely going to be perceived as an
eccentric at best!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 03/10/2023 18:13, Clive Page wrote:
> On 03/10/2023 17:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49
>>> on Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>
>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>> amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready
>>>> on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>>>
>>> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>> someone with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of it
>>> down and retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>
>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?
>
> You can hold a paper ticket in your teeth.
>
>

You still need to free up a hand to feed it into the slot. Where it
promptly jams as it will be largely pulp by now.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 03/10/2023 18:36, Certes wrote:
> On 03/10/2023 18:13, Clive Page wrote:
>> On 03/10/2023 17:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49
>>>> on Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>>> amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready
>>>>> on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>>>>
>>>> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>>> someone with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of
>>>> it down and retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>>
>>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?
>>
>> You can hold a paper ticket in your teeth.
>
> You can also hold a phone in your teeth.  However, pressing the 37
> buttons[1] required to make it display the proof of purchase is
> beyond the dexterity of the average tongue.

If you can manage that you will go down (sic) a storm with the ladies!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 1/10/23 11:40, Clive Page wrote:

> their servers.  Meanwhile those using pay-by-phone play about with them,
> entering their PIN code or getting their fingerprint recognised, then
> getting the right page shown on the screen, and then operating the
> barrier.  This is nearly always several seconds slower.
>
Apple phones and many Android phones DO NOT NEED TO BE UNLOCKED to use
Oyster terminals.
Apple phones don't need to be even turned on if express pay is properly
setup.
People mostly do not need to fumble with unlocking phones and selecting
apps, all that is needed to to bring the phone near the reader pad.

I went through many Oyster gates just waving my Pixel6A at the readers.
I tend to unlock my phone before doing so, as Android only allows a
limited number of 'tap to pay with out unlock' before requiring an
unlock. What number of transactions this is is unclear (as it appears to
vary by region/bank), so I've got into the habit of unlocking the phone
(by finger print) as I approach the gates. And I have two fingers
registered to unlock the phone so I can use either hand.

Mainline services where the ticket is QR code on your phone screen is
another matter as you have to get the QR code up on the screen. Two
people travelling together with only 1 device gets tricky. Oxford told
me to go through first, select the other ticket and hand the phone back
to my wife.
I did it the other way, scanned one ticket, sent her through and then
scanned the 2nd one.

On 04.10.23 05:24, Matthew Geier wrote:
> On 1/10/23 11:40, Clive Page wrote:
>
>> their servers.  Meanwhile those using pay-by-phone play about with
>> them, entering their PIN code or getting their fingerprint recognised,
>> then getting the right page shown on the screen, and then operating
>> the barrier.  This is nearly always several seconds slower.
>>
> Apple phones and many Android phones DO NOT NEED TO BE UNLOCKED to use
> Oyster terminals.
> Apple phones don't need to be even turned on if express pay is properly
> setup.
> People mostly do not need to fumble with unlocking phones and selecting
> apps, all that is needed to to bring the phone near the reader pad.
>
> I went through many Oyster gates just waving my Pixel6A at the readers.
> I tend to unlock my phone before doing so, as Android only allows a
> limited number of 'tap to pay with out unlock' before requiring an
> unlock. What number of transactions this is is unclear (as it appears to
> vary by region/bank), so I've got into the habit of unlocking the phone
> (by finger print) as I approach the gates. And I have two fingers
> registered to unlock the phone so I can use either hand.

Personally I haven't set up the PAYG on LU without unlock on my phone,
but due to the ergonomics of the phone and the streamlined way of
activating apple pay (double-press the side button, faceID to unlock), I
can do that one handed without looking except to show my face to unlock
the phone, in significantly less time than it would take to find a paper
ticket and orient it correctly for the ticket barrier. If I have a
ticket that's a QR code there's a bit more effort to find it, but
generally comparable with the time involved in making use of a
paper-printed QR code.

Robin

On 04/10/2023 04:24, Matthew Geier wrote:
> On 1/10/23 11:40, Clive Page wrote:
>
>> their servers.  Meanwhile those using pay-by-phone play about with
>> them, entering their PIN code or getting their fingerprint recognised,
>> then getting the right page shown on the screen, and then operating
>> the barrier.  This is nearly always several seconds slower.
>>
> Apple phones and many Android phones DO NOT NEED TO BE UNLOCKED to use
> Oyster terminals.
> Apple phones don't need to be even turned on if express pay is properly
> setup.
> People mostly do not need to fumble with unlocking phones and selecting
> apps, all that is needed to to bring the phone near the reader pad.
>
> I went through many Oyster gates just waving my Pixel6A at the readers.
> I tend to unlock my phone before doing so, as Android only allows a
> limited number of 'tap to pay with out unlock' before requiring an
> unlock. What number of transactions this is is unclear (as it appears to
> vary by region/bank), so I've got into the habit of unlocking the phone
> (by finger print) as I approach the gates. And I have two fingers
> registered to unlock the phone so I can use either hand.
>
> Mainline services where the ticket is QR code on your phone screen is
> another matter as you have to get the QR code up on the screen. Two
> people travelling together with only 1 device gets tricky. Oxford told
> me to go through first, select the other ticket and hand the phone back
> to my wife.
> I did it the other way, scanned one ticket, sent her through and then
> scanned the 2nd one.

I've discovered that pdf tickets ordered from the TfW website can be
downloaded onto your device through their app and displayed in a pdf
viewer. I do this on my mobile and/or pad for a simple single ticket
journey.

For a more complex journey involving split tickets I put the pdfs into
Calendar to make selection easier. I've going to University railway
station next week which usually involves four return tickets so I'll
have a separate Calendar entry for each ticket.

On 04/10/2023 07:32, Bob wrote:
> On 04.10.23 05:24, Matthew Geier wrote:
>> On 1/10/23 11:40, Clive Page wrote:
>>
>>> their servers.  Meanwhile those using pay-by-phone play about with
>>> them, entering their PIN code or getting their fingerprint
>>> recognised, then getting the right page shown on the screen, and then
>>> operating the barrier.  This is nearly always several seconds slower.
>>>
>> Apple phones and many Android phones DO NOT NEED TO BE UNLOCKED to use
>> Oyster terminals.
>> Apple phones don't need to be even turned on if express pay is
>> properly setup.
>> People mostly do not need to fumble with unlocking phones and
>> selecting apps, all that is needed to to bring the phone near the
>> reader pad.
>>
>> I went through many Oyster gates just waving my Pixel6A at the
>> readers. I tend to unlock my phone before doing so, as Android only
>> allows a limited number of 'tap to pay with out unlock' before
>> requiring an unlock. What number of transactions this is is unclear
>> (as it appears to vary by region/bank), so I've got into the habit of
>> unlocking the phone (by finger print) as I approach the gates. And I
>> have two fingers registered to unlock the phone so I can use either hand.
>
> Personally I haven't set up the PAYG on LU without unlock on my phone,
> but due to the ergonomics of the phone and the streamlined way of
> activating apple pay (double-press the side button, faceID to unlock), I
> can do that one handed without looking except to show my face to unlock
> the phone, in significantly less time than it would take to find a paper
> ticket and orient it correctly for the ticket barrier. If I have a
> ticket that's a QR code there's a bit more effort to find it, but
> generally comparable with the time involved in making use of a
> paper-printed QR code.

My local station is unmanned without barriers so I set up the pdf to
display once I board the train. I setup for the barrier as part of my
packing up process when I'm reaching my destination.

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 16:52:22 +0100
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>On 03/10/2023 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 09:45:56 +0100
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 03/10/2023 09:27, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> IME of how software development is done these days, the apps and web front
>>> end
>>>> are usually written by kids not long out of uni, the backend side is
>written
>>> by
>>>> the grown ups.
>>>>
>>> Which summarises the problem nicely.
>>>
>>> Their crummy front ends are the public face of their company.
>>
>> Believe me, it would be a lot worse if it was the other way around. Luckily
>> the kids arn't interested in doing backend, graphics free often command line
>> driven work plus they don't learn the required skills at uni and college
>> these days it seems. Ask them what database normalisation or foreign keys are
>
>> and you'd just get a blank stare.
>
>That's my experience too, though fortunately the "kids" sending requests
>to my server code were relatively skilled and experienced.

I suppose calling them kids is a bit patronising but I tend to think of anyone
under 25 as a kid these days.

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is the
>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching through
>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>
>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>
>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with takes about
>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they have to
>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank cards so why TF
>> don't they just use them instead?
>>
> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
> many of them.

Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted items.
They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.

Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 03/10/2023 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <ufhdvf$3kk0p$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:02:55 on Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at 19:18:49 on  Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>
>>>  Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require someone  with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of it down and  retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>
>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?
>
> They could hold it in the same hand as pulling their trolley bag, or even in their teeth. And it doesn't require logging into either. I sometimes tuck my paper ticket into by sock, which I couldn't do with a phone.

This reminds me of an old joke from Punch Magazine I think:
Old duffer in a compartment laboriously searches all his many pockets in turn failing to find his ticket. Eventually the ticket collector loses patience and says "you old fool, you've got it in your teeth". After he's checked it and left, another passenger asks him "Didn't you know you had it in your teeth?" to which he replies "Yes, but I needed a bit more time to chew yesterday's date off it".

--
Clive Page

On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is the
>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching through
>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>
>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>
>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with takes about
>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they have to
>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank cards so why TF
>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>
>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>> many of them.
>
> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted items.
> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>
> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.
>

Tesco do the same with their club card.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 04/10/2023 10:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is the
>>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>>
>>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with
>>>> takes about
>>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they
>>>> have to
>>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank cards
>>>> so why TF
>>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>>
>>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
>>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>>> many of them.
>>
>> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted items.
>> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>>
>> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.
>
> Tesco do the same with their club card.

Morrisons seem to have gone further and done away with the "points"
(where you get a 50p voucher each time you've spent a total of £5000)
leaving only the occasional price reduction for card customers only.
(I'm suspicious that some of these may be reduced from a temporarily
inflated price back down to the normal level.)

On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is the
>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching through
>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>
>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>
>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with takes about
>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they have to
>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank cards so why TF
>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>
>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>> many of them.
>
> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted items.
> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>
> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.

My local Sainsbugs is about an half an hour's drive each way. My local
Argos has closed and they expect us to drive there instead.

They can get stuffed.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is the
>>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching through
>>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>>
>>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with takes about
>>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they have to
>>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank cards so why TF
>>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>>
>>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
>>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>>> many of them.
>>
>> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted items.
>> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>>
>> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.
>>
>
> Tesco do the same with their club card.

Yes, I’ve seen the adverts but I didn’t remember which shop it was. I
don’t have a convenient Tesco.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 04/10/2023 11:18, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is the
>>>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching through
>>>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with takes about
>>>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they have to
>>>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank cards so why TF
>>>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>>>
>>>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>>>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
>>>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>>>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>>>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>>>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>>>> many of them.
>>>
>>> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted items.
>>> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>>>
>>> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.
>>>
>>
>> Tesco do the same with their club card.
>
> Yes, I’ve seen the adverts but I didn’t remember which shop it was. I
> don’t have a convenient Tesco.
>

I've a big Tesco's 10 minutes walk away, Sainsburys' (not including an
Express nearby) is two bus rides the other side of town.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 04/10/2023 12:06, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 04/10/2023 11:18, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>>>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then searching
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with
>>>>>> takes about
>>>>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank
>>>>>> cards so why TF
>>>>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>>>>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be achieved by
>>>>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>>>>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>>>>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>>>>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>>>>> many of them.
>>>>
>>>> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted
>>>> items.
>>>> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>>>>
>>>> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tesco do the same with their club card.
>>
>> Yes, I’ve seen the adverts but I didn’t remember which shop it was.  I
>> don’t have a convenient Tesco.
>>
>
> I've a big Tesco's 10 minutes walk away, Sainsburys' (not including an
> Express nearby) is two bus rides the other side of town.
>
I have a middle sized Stressco about six minutes walk away.

They seem to have two promotions at the moment price equality with Aldi
and special Clubcard prices.

I've found that Morrisons can be cheaper than both for fresh produce and
a few other products.

I get the impression that "normal" prices are inflated for Clubcard offers.

To bring this closer to on topic my main use for Stressco is a comfort
break between home and the railway station.

On 04/10/2023 12:25, Coffee wrote:
> On 04/10/2023 12:06, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 04/10/2023 11:18, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 04/10/2023 09:45, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:29:21 -0700
>>>>>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:49:00 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All that should be done before approaching the barrier, the actual
>>>>>>>>> transaction at the barrier takes no longer. What you describe
>>>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>>>> equivalent of someone arriving at the barrier and then
>>>>>>>>> searching through
>>>>>>>>> their pockets/bag to find their ticket/oyster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh boy... watch people and observe how often that happens, and not
>>>>>>>> only Little Olde Ladies!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just as bad are the twats who have to pay with their phone with
>>>>>>> takes about
>>>>>>> 5 times longer to work than a contactless card especially if they
>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>> unlock the bloody thing first. I'm fairly sure they have bank
>>>>>>> cards so why TF
>>>>>>> don't they just use them instead?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cue response that cards are only for goat-herders?
>>>>>> Discounted purchases in supermarkets can sometimes only be
>>>>>> achieved by
>>>>>> using an app (e.g. ASDA) but otherwise not yet needed in other
>>>>>> supermarkets. For ticket barriers there is usually but not always
>>>>>> (depending on amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the
>>>>>> 'phone ready on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to
>>>>>> many of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sainsbury’s used to have red tickets on the shelves for discounted
>>>>> items.
>>>>> They all seem to have been replaced with “Nectar Price” tickets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sell your soul, get cheap shopping.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tesco do the same with their club card.
>>>
>>> Yes, I’ve seen the adverts but I didn’t remember which shop it was.  I
>>> don’t have a convenient Tesco.
>>>
>>
>> I've a big Tesco's 10 minutes walk away, Sainsburys' (not including an
>> Express nearby) is two bus rides the other side of town.
>>
> I have a middle sized Stressco about six minutes walk away.
>
> They seem to have two promotions at the moment price equality with Aldi
> and special Clubcard prices.

The Aldi one has been going on intermittently for some years now.

>
> I've found that Morrisons can be cheaper than both for fresh produce and
> a few other products.

My nearest Morrisons is in Aldershot, about 40 minutes by bus.

>
> I get the impression that "normal" prices are inflated for Clubcard offers.

Not that I've noticed[1]

>
> To bring this closer to on topic my main use for Stressco is a comfort
> break between home and the railway station.

[1]To be strictly accurate, not that my wife has noticed and she keeps a
strict eye on these things. Must be her Scottish ancestry!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <ufhknf$3m330$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:58:07 on Tue, 3 Oct
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 03/10/2023 18:13, Clive Page wrote:
>> On 03/10/2023 17:02, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at
>>>>19:18:49 on Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson
>>>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>>>amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready
>>>>>on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>>>>
>>>> Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>>>someone with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of
>>>>it down and retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>>
>>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?

>> You can hold a paper ticket in your teeth.
>
>You still need to free up a hand to feed it into the slot. Where it
>promptly jams as it will be largely pulp by now.

Do try to keep up! There aren't any slots at Stansted, it's done by
poorly trained RPIs.

In practice I might stick the ticket under my watchstrap, or into the
top of my sock, rather than actually the mouth.
--
Roland Perry

In message <ufhkkj$3m330$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:56:35 on Tue, 3 Oct
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 03/10/2023 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ufhdvf$3kk0p$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:02:55 on Tue, 3 Oct
>>2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 03/10/2023 15:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <fs1mhi9v6nhruifnk70hd7thsh7jqpv4o8@4ax.com>, at
>>>>19:18:49 on  Mon, 2 Oct 2023, Charles Ellson
>>>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> For ticket barriers there is usually but not always (depending on
>>>>>amount of available hands) the opportunity to get the 'phone ready
>>>>>on the approach run but that doesn't seem to occur to many of them.
>>
>>>>  Not just ticket barriers, the manual checks at Stansted require
>>>>someone  with several kitchen sinks in their baggage to put most of
>>>>it down and  retrieve their phone from their jacket pocket.
>>>
>>> And retrieving a paper ticket from their pocket would be different how?

>> They could hold it in the same hand as pulling their trolley bag, or
>>even in their teeth. And it doesn't require logging into either. I
>>sometimes tuck my paper ticket into by sock, which I couldn't do with
>>a phone.
>
>So you have to put all your luggage down and bend down to retrieve
>something from your sock? You are definitely going to be perceived as
>an eccentric at best!

I just have to temporarily let go of the handle of my trolley-bag,
having been brought to a halt by the melee in any event. For over seven
minutes at Stansted the other day, so poorly matched is supply and
demand of RPIs.
--
Roland Perry