YTC#1 wrote:

> >
https://fnpr.ru/eng/news/statement-by-the-federation-of-independent-trade-unions-of-russia_.html
> >
>
> When are they redefining the word "indepenednt"?
>
> I nearly stopped reading after the 1st sentence, as it surely could
> only get worse.
>
> And it did.

See my reply to Mike.

--
Simon

On 28 Feb 2022 18:31:44 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>As one of my colleagues magnificently understated, relationships are
>going to sour following this satement from this Russian union
>federation:
>
>https://fnpr.ru/eng/news/statement-by-the-federation-of-independent-trade-unions-of-russia_.html

Unsurprisingly following the state line. I imagine that was dictated
to them
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 01/03/2022 12:56, Champ wrote:
> On 28 Feb 2022 18:31:44 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> As one of my colleagues magnificently understated, relationships are
>> going to sour following this satement from this Russian union
>> federation:
>>
>> https://fnpr.ru/eng/news/statement-by-the-federation-of-independent-trade-unions-of-russia_.html
>
> Unsurprisingly following the state line. I imagine that was dictated
> to them

Oh nice pun there!

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

Champ wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 18:49:13 -0000 (UTC), geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:
>
> >>> And did yiou miss the way the under resourced "military" forced
> the USA+ >>> out?
>
> > > They didn't.
> > >
> > > Trump had agreed a timetable to extract the troops with an
> > > expectation that the Afghani government/security services/forces
> > > would take over.
> > >
> > > Biden followed the timetable set (even though IMO it was clearly
> > > falling apart). The troops didn't leave because they were forced
> > > out though, they left for domestic political reasons.
>
> > They felt they couldn't win.ie. they lost.
>
> They'd won. There were elections, a stable government, girls in
> school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics, etc).

That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population forming the
"elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the country) but in the
meantime the vast majority was receiving no such benefits. Their lot
has been to be periodically carpet bombed, strafed, raided, chased away
or starved by whatever invader/marauder/liberator happened to be
passing at the time. All they want is for the shooting to stop so they
can get on with their lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful
period in the last forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in
power. I am convinced the vast majority don't GAF about elections,
education or any of the other western luxuries we try and force on them
as long as they can carve out their existance like they used to before
Afghanistan became "strategic".

--
Geoff
Honda NTV650

On 04/03/2022 16:26, geoffC wrote:
> Champ wrote:
>
>> They'd won. There were elections, a stable government, girls in
>> school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics, etc).
>
> That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population forming the
> "elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the country) but in the
> meantime the vast majority was receiving no such benefits. Their lot
> has been to be periodically carpet bombed, strafed, raided, chased away
> or starved by whatever invader/marauder/liberator happened to be
> passing at the time. All they want is for the shooting to stop so they
> can get on with their lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful
> period in the last forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in
> power. I am convinced the vast majority don't GAF about elections,
> education or any of the other western luxuries we try and force on them
> as long as they can carve out their existance like they used to before
> Afghanistan became "strategic".

An article written by someone who does GAF about elections and women's
rights:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/famine-afghanistan-joe-biden-reparations

I think you'll find that 50% of the population would rather not live in
complete subjugation to the other 50%.

On 3/5/2022 11:33 AM, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 04/03/2022 16:26, geoffC wrote:
>> Champ wrote:
>>
>>> They'd won.  There were elections, a stable government, girls in
>>> school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics, etc).
>>
>> That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population forming the
>> "elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the country) but in the
>> meantime the vast majority was receiving no such benefits. Their lot
>> has been to be periodically carpet bombed, strafed, raided, chased away
>> or starved by whatever invader/marauder/liberator happened to be
>> passing at the time. All they want is for the shooting to stop so they
>> can get on with their lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful
>> period in the last forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in
>> power. I am convinced the vast majority don't GAF about elections,
>> education or any of the other western luxuries we try and force on them
>> as long as they can carve out their existance like they used to before
>> Afghanistan became "strategic".
>
> An article written by someone who does GAF about elections and women's
> rights:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/famine-afghanistan-joe-biden-reparations
>
>
> I think you'll find that 50% of the population would rather not live in
> complete subjugation to the other 50%.

But with all the deaths from famine and starvation, will the voting
advantages stay the same?

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 27/02/2022 21:29, Mark Olson wrote:
> YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> On 27/02/2022 16:52, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>> On 25/02/2022 14:38, Champ wrote:
>
>>>> Do you say stupid things just to get a reaction?
>>>
>>> I thought it was simply out of habit.
>>
>> You saw the smiley? Yes?
>
> Smileys are for cunts.

<applause> :-)

> :^)
>

On 27/02/2022 20:29, Mark Olson wrote:
> YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> On 27/02/2022 16:52, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>> On 25/02/2022 14:38, Champ wrote:
>
>>>> Do you say stupid things just to get a reaction?
>>>
>>> I thought it was simply out of habit.
>>
>> You saw the smiley? Yes?
>
> Smileys are for cunts.

So they can see that humour is intended?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 25/02/2022 09:19, YTC#1 wrote:

> With all this talk about support with weapons and expertise being
> supplied, am I the only person wondering why the Ukrainian president has
> not picked up the phone and had a chat with Kabul?

He'll be behind the game.

One report yesterday mentioned that the Russians were bringing Chechen
units to the front line.

As a Ukrainian soldier said, "They just kill everybody".

--
Spike

Spike wrote:
> One report yesterday mentioned that the Russians were bringing Chechen
> units to the front line.

Or trying to. The first lot (allegedly) didn't make it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-says-it-killed-chechen-forces-sent-to-assassinate-zelensky/

> As a Ukrainian soldier said, "They just kill everybody".

While the other Russian troops are just chillaxing on holiday?

On 09/03/2022 11:52, ogden wrote:
> Spike wrote:

>> One report yesterday mentioned that the Russians were bringing Chechen
>> units to the front line.

> Or trying to. The first lot (allegedly) didn't make it.

> https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-says-it-killed-chechen-forces-sent-to-assassinate-zelensky/

The tone of the report was that they would be used as assault troops...

>> As a Ukrainian soldier said, "They just kill everybody".

> While the other Russian troops are just chillaxing on holiday?

Judging by the Russian PoWs shown on TV, I suspect they are only
chilling...in the cold,,,

One report a couple of days ago showed a line of Russian trucks
abandoned in the snow on a forest track, another showed a farmer towing
away and abandoned APC, and another showed a young Ukrainian lady -
blonde hair, painted fingernails - starting up and driving off in
another abandoned APC...

--
Spike

On 09/03/2022 09:24, Spike wrote:
> On 25/02/2022 09:19, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> With all this talk about support with weapons and expertise being
>> supplied, am I the only person wondering why the Ukrainian president has
>> not picked up the phone and had a chat with Kabul?
>
> He'll be behind the game.
>
> One report yesterday mentioned that the Russians were bringing Chechen
> units to the front line.

Nobody else parse this as chicken?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 3/9/2022 3:52 AM, ogden wrote:
> Spike wrote:
>> One report yesterday mentioned that the Russians were bringing Chechen
>> units to the front line.
>
> Or trying to. The first lot (allegedly) didn't make it.
>
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-says-it-killed-chechen-forces-sent-to-assassinate-zelensky/
>
>
>> As a Ukrainian soldier said, "They just kill everybody".
>
> While the other Russian troops are just chillaxing on holiday?
>
Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
military.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 09/03/2022 16:25, Turby wrote:

> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
> military.

But Putin has squandered squillions on upgrading the Army in particular,
with new designs of vehicles and new combat tactics. Looks like a
rethink is needed...

--
Spike

Turby wrote:
> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
> military.

On the other hand, Ukraine claims a lot of things have happened during the war so far, not all of which are turning out to be true.

Hopefully most of them are though.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +0000, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid>
wrote:

>On 09/03/2022 16:25, Turby wrote:
>
>> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
>> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
>> military.

>But Putin has squandered squillions on upgrading the Army in particular,
>with new designs of vehicles and new combat tactics. Looks like a
>rethink is needed...

The suspicion is that a lot of those squillions have been embezzled by
the oligarchs running various suppliers, alongside government
officials
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 10/03/2022 10:51, ogden wrote:
> Turby wrote:
>> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
>> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
>> military.
>
> On the other hand, Ukraine claims a lot of things have happened during the war so far, not all of which are turning out to be true.
>
> Hopefully most of them are though.

And this is different from any other war?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 3/10/2022 4:33 AM, Champ wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +0000, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/2022 16:25, Turby wrote:
>>
>>> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
>>> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
>>> military.
>
>> But Putin has squandered squillions on upgrading the Army in particular,
>> with new designs of vehicles and new combat tactics. Looks like a
>> rethink is needed...
>
> The suspicion is that a lot of those squillions have been embezzled by
> the oligarchs running various suppliers, alongside government
> officials

See: Afghanistan, etc.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 10/03/2022 12:33, Champ wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +0000, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid>
> wrote:

>> On 09/03/2022 16:25, Turby wrote:

>>> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
>>> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
>>> military.

>> But Putin has squandered squillions on upgrading the Army in particular,
>> with new designs of vehicles and new combat tactics. Looks like a
>> rethink is needed...

> The suspicion is that a lot of those squillions have been embezzled by
> the oligarchs running various suppliers, alongside government
> officials

I understand that the usual amount of embezzlement is something like 30%
per government contract.

--
Spike

On 10/03/2022 10:51, ogden wrote:
> Turby wrote:
>> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
>> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
>> military.
>
> On the other hand, Ukraine claims a lot of things have happened during the war so far, not all of which are turning out to be true.
>
> Hopefully most of them are though.

I'm still in contact with a former colleague. His mum and dad I think
are eligble to leave, but have decided they'd rather stay. He doesn't
have any choice but to stay and fight/resist, seems to be taking it ok
so far, after the initial shock. Their spirit is amazing.

--
/Simon

On 3/11/2022 3:21 PM, Pipl wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 02:51:12 -0800 (PST), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Turby wrote:
>>> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
>>> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
>>> military.
>>
>> On the other hand, Ukraine claims a lot of things have happened during the war so far, not all of which are turning out to be true.
>>
>> Hopefully most of them are though.
>
> Some of their claimed successes *look* suspicious, but I'll happily be
> proved wrong. Yelling "genocide" at indiscriminate shellling sounds a
> bit hysterical, too.
>
> For all that, I still very much support the Ukrainians; they've done
> bloody well and may they continue to do so.
>
We do know that Russia has been flooding the media with fake news. To
the point it's almost impossible to believe _anything_ that comes out of
Moscow. And now that Russia is imprisoning a lot of journalists who
don't follow the Kremlin line, many western media are leaving Russia. hmmm

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

ogden wrote:

> > As a Ukrainian soldier said, "They just kill everybody".
>
> While the other Russian troops are just chillaxing on holiday?

I think the young Russians conscripts are just trying to not get
killed, not unreasonably.

--
Simon

Turby wrote:

> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This
> fiasco is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and
> equipped military.

Russian logistics an absolute mess? Looks like little has improved
from the Soviet period.

--
Simon

On Friday, 11 March 2022 at 23:21:53 UTC, Pipl wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 02:51:12 -0800 (PST), ogden <eld...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Turby wrote:
> >> Ukraine claims they've killed at least 2 Russian generals. This fiasco
> >> is looking like Russia has a ridiculously poorly trained and equipped
> >> military.
> >
> >On the other hand, Ukraine claims a lot of things have happened during the war so far, not all of which are turning out to be true.
> >
> >Hopefully most of them are though.
> Some of their claimed successes *look* suspicious, but I'll happily be
> proved wrong. Yelling "genocide" at indiscriminate shellling sounds a
> bit hysterical, too.

Given the definition of 'genocide' I find is;
"the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation
or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "

Doesn't indiscriminate shelling of residential areas as part of the Russian
invasion designed to absorb Ukraine back into Russia look like genocide?

> For all that, I still very much support the Ukrainians; they've done
> bloody well and may they continue to do so.

Ditto.

On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 16:44:01 UTC, Pipl wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 04:58:50 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Doesn't indiscriminate shelling of residential areas as part of the Russian
> >invasion designed to absorb Ukraine back into Russia look like genocide?
> I think thry're using foul means to break the defence, not
> specifically wipe out an ethnicity. If the Ukrainians were to lay down
> arms, I doubt they'd continue that form of attack. I suppose that
> doesn't prevent them from then progressively destroying Ukranian
> culture by occupation though.

I'm viewing it more as destroying the nation rather than the ethnicity.
Maybe destroying the 'spirit' of the nation without necessarily wiping
out the people?

I can see how 'genocide' if viewed in the Rwanda/Bosnia/2nd WW lens
might not be what we've seen to date but it's certainly on the same road.